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SirMoric Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.10 00:24:00 - [121] What do we have to counter ECM? Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Projected ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Sensor Backup Arrays The tools are there, use them before complaining. rgds
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.10 00:43:00 - [122] omg noez /o\ that uses teh slots, i want to be immune !!1111 Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.01.10 00:50:00 - [123] The warfare link doesnt need a slot, except from the high slot on the Eos or Brutix/Myrm, lol. I know most people think the Eos sucks, but augmenting the whole fleets sensor strength is worth something, its just not that obvious to notice the effect. Have a few pilots that can take booster roles, have a good booster structure and you always can fit an Eos in between somewhere. Also that bonus adds up with eccm making it more effective, also remote eccm.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.10 00:57:00 - [124] Originally by: daisy dook Falcons and ECM can be countered with modules, ships and tactics. No they can't.
SirMoric Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.10 00:59:00 - [125] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: daisy dook Falcons and ECM can be countered with modules, ships and tactics. No they can't. What do we have to counter ECM? Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Projected ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Sensor Backup Arrays The tools are there, use them before complaining. rgds
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.10 01:00:00 - [126] Originally by: SirMoric What do we have to counter ECM? Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Projected ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Sensor Backup Arrays The tools are there, use them before complaining. rgds Welcome to eve: Those do not work.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.10 01:01:00 - [127] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: SirMoric What do we have to counter ECM? Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Projected ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Sensor Backup Arrays The tools are there, use them before complaining. rgds Welcome to eve: Those do not work. ECCM has worked for me in the past...but I guess it must have just been a bug Voluntold, New Webcomic
SirMoric Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.10 01:18:00 - [128] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: SirMoric What do we have to counter ECM? Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Projected ECCM Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Sensor Backup Arrays The tools are there, use them before complaining. rgds Welcome to eve: Those do not work. Yes they do. rgds
unloadedx16	Posted - 2009.01.10 04:51:00 - [129] Why not make them work 100% of the time but jam less time, like 5 sec or something, and waste alot more cap. or make them waste even more cap and jam for like 3 sec and give the ecm ships a dps boost or more tank This would make ecm suck less and ecm ships funner to fly.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2009.01.10 05:42:00 - [130] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: hellsknights I dislike the Scorp, but its efective at what is does. Do we need an ECM BS i think we could do without. If your using a Scorp for ecm support why not use a recon, i know the scorp will push out more DPS but still. Maybe i just have Scorp hate. The scorp is not effective at anything. It can be mediocre at several things. I suppose it could be just about useful for ganking mission runners, where you know in advance what flavour of ECM to bring. And then only if you cant bring a domi. I disagree. Likewise, why screw over ECM pilots who haven't done Cruiser/Recons 5 yet? A scorp is still a lot better than a blackbird. Scorps are fine to be honest, there's just a lot of really bad scorpion pilots out there. Is it a rook? No, but it can do a lot of things a rook can't as well (like run a decent spider tank, tank a doomsday, etc).

Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2009.01.10 05:50:00 - [131] Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 10/01/2009 05:52:56 Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 10/01/2009 05:51:25 Originally by: Isabelle Sparks Stop being so obtuse. Armor repairer and damage mods are just examples. What if it shut down half your guns, or maybe your MWD and disrupter. Also, I would say that on a gank build damage mods may be fairly significant. Perhaps, you could load scripts, and actually target different types of weapon modules, or maybe you could load scripts that made it kn**** off either High slots, mid slots or low slots. There are a million possibilities, that add more to the game then someone being able to do something, or not. Give me one tactical reason why I'd fly a ship that can disable half of another ship - when I could instead simply fly a ship that does the full damage of a gank ship? ECM is fine. Edited to add: Its funny that the topic is "ECM is balanced but not fun, lets make it fun" but all the suggestions amount to "let's gimp ECM to the equivalent of a 100 mil isk shuttle".
Thorek Ironbrow Caldari Ironbrow Industries Co.	Posted - 2009.01.10 08:56:00 - [132] Edited by: Thorek Ironbrow on 10/01/2009 09:03:34 The worst thing about the Scorpion is that since it takes up all it's mid slots with it's EWar then it has to use low slots for tanking, which is kind of annoying since Caldari ships are always shield tankers. Lets not get rid of ECM. ____________________________ Originally by: Elirel this thread is about serious Internet Spaceship stuff. [/
daisy dook	Posted - 2009.01.10 10:18:00 - [133] Originally by: Dasalt Istgut Edited to add: Its funny that the topic is "ECM is balanced but not fun, lets make it fun" but all the suggestions amount to "let's gimp ECM to the equivalent of a 100 mil isk shuttle". That's because most people don't read. A lot of people what to whine about how overpowered ECM is (because they don't fit the counters) and some just read the 'lets get rid of ECM' and replied based on it being an ECM whine. One of the problems is that ECM is powerful and CCP has chosen to balance it by making all the ships useless at anything other than ECM (with the exception of the scorpion which, I'm sure you'll all agree, would not be your first choice for any role). The OP is sugesting that by reducing the power of ECM so that the difference could be added to the Caldari ships as combat abilities.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.10 10:29:00 - [134] Originally by: Dasalt Istgut Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 10/01/2009 05:52:56 Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 10/01/2009 05:51:25 Originally by: Isabelle Sparks Stop being so obtuse. Armor repairer and damage mods are just examples. What if it shut down half your guns, or maybe your MWD and disrupter. Also, I would say that on a gank build damage mods may be fairly significant. Perhaps, you could load scripts, and actually target different types of weapon modules, or maybe you could load scripts that made it kn**** off either High slots, mid slots or low slots. There are a million possibilities, that add more to the game then someone being able to do something, or not. Give me one tactical reason why I'd fly a ship that can disable half of another ship - when I could instead simply fly a ship that does the full damage of a gank ship? Because with 5 jammers fitted, you could cripple 5 enemy ships. Every time. No chance based crap: you will definitely offline some of their mods.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.10 10:31:00 - [135] Originally by: daisy dook Originally by: Dasalt Istgut Edited to add: Its funny that the topic is "ECM is balanced but not fun, lets make it fun" but all the suggestions amount to "let's gimp ECM to the equivalent of a 100 mil isk shuttle". That's because most people don't read. A lot of people what to whine about how overpowered ECM is (because they don't fit the counters) and some just read the 'lets get rid of ECM' and replied based on it being an ECM whine. One of the problems is that ECM is powerful and CCP has chosen to balance it by making all the ships useless at anything other than ECM (with the exception of the scorpion which, I'm sure you'll all agree, would not be your first choice for any role). The OP is sugesting that by reducing the power of ECM so that the difference could be added to the Caldari ships as combat abilities. Don't forget "while increasing it's reliability, so that it actually makes sense for the ECM ships to have combat ability".
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.10 12:06:00 - [136] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Welcome to eve: Those do not work for me cos i do not fit them as its easier to cry for a nerf than to use upa slot or be more maneuverable.... Fixed.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.10 12:08:00 - [137] Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 12:13:17 Originally by: Malcanis Because with 5 jammers fitted, you could cripple 5 enemy ships. Every time. No chance based crap: you will definitely offline some of their mods. A utterly useless "crap shoot" of a ability as you do not know what modules you are effecting woulds make it worthless. Ppl know how damps and TD's exactly effect ships so they can structure their tactics and combat around the results. But to make ECM a moronic "crap shoot" module that effects unknown modules would make it a useless if not dangerous to rely on if your looking for good skilled and teamwork reliant pvp.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.10 12:27:00 - [138] Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 12:13:17 Originally by: Malcanis Because with 5 jammers fitted, you could cripple 5 enemy ships. Every time. No chance based crap: you will definitely offline some of their mods. A utterly useless "crap shoot" of a ability as you do not know what modules you are effecting woulds make it worthless. Ppl know how damps and TD's exactly effect ships so they can structure their tactics and combat around the results. But to make ECM a moronic "crap shoot" module that effects unknown modules would make it a useless if not dangerous to rely on if your looking for good skilled and teamwork reliant pvp. Well I'm going to go ahead and assume that the majority of PvP ships are fitted with modules that the pilots think they need, and that their ships will be significantly impaired if they lose a good number of them.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.10 12:32:00 - [139] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Murina Originally by: Malcanis Because with 5 jammers fitted, you could cripple 5 enemy ships. Every time. No chance based crap: you will definitely offline some of their mods. A utterly useless "crap shoot" of a ability as you do not know what modules you are effecting woulds make it worthless. Ppl know how damps and TD's exactly effect ships so they can structure their tactics and combat around the results. But to make ECM a moronic "crap shoot" module that effects unknown modules would make it a useless if not dangerous to rely on if your looking for good skilled and teamwork reliant pvp. Well I'm going to go ahead and assume that the majority of PvP ships are fitted with modules that the pilots think they need, and that their ships will be significantly impaired if they lose a good number of them. Not knowing exactly what you are disrupting would make ecm a crap, pointless and stupid module and you know it.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.10 12:38:00 - [140] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Murina Originally by: Malcanis Because with 5 jammers fitted, you could cripple 5 enemy ships. Every time. No chance based crap: you will definitely offline some of their mods. A utterly useless "crap shoot" of a ability as you do not know what modules you are effecting woulds make it worthless. Ppl know how damps and TD's exactly effect ships so they can structure their tactics and combat around the results. But to make ECM a moronic "crap shoot" module that effects unknown modules would make it a useless if not dangerous to rely on if your looking for good skilled and teamwork reliant pvp. Well I'm going to go ahead and assume that the majority of PvP ships are fitted with modules that the pilots think they need, and that their ships will be significantly impaired if they lose a good number of them. Not knowing exactly what you are disrupting would make ecm a crap, pointless and stupid module and you know it. Whereas not knowing if you're going to disrupt them at all is just fine...?

Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.10 12:54:00 - [141] Originally by: Malcanis Whereas not knowing if you're going to disrupt them at all is just fine...? You know as soon as you activate the module if its worked or not with ALL ewar as it is and you know the exact effect they have.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.10 13:04:00 - [142] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Malcanis Whereas not knowing if you're going to disrupt them at all is just fine...? You know as soon as you activate the module if its worked or not with ALL ewar as it is and you know the exact effect they have. Well ECM is gonna be nerfed, since CCP have low resists to whining. So you can have uncertain and weak or certain and weak.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.10 13:08:00 - [143] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Murina Originally by: Malcanis Whereas not knowing if you're going to disrupt them at all is just fine...? You know as soon as you activate the module if its worked or not with ALL ewar as it is and you know the exact effect they have. Well ECM is gonna be nerfed, since CCP have low resists to whining. So you can have uncertain and weak or certain and weak. Link to the announcement pls?. I have seen a lot of threads started (by the same ppl over and over again) but all those threads would have died if it had not been for ppl saying ECM was fine. Your argument and idea has failed try not to be so bitter about it.
CAiNE999 Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.01.10 14:21:00 - [144] `Removing ECM would push the game even more towards the gank/tank slug fest kinda deal that sucks gigantic donkey balls. Keep it and we force ppl to be more mobile and versatile in their combat choices and strategies.` lol, what like blobbing falcons instead? it needs to be redone, ive seen and known people over my 2 years who refuse to fly any size op/fleet without falcon support, either to face blobs or other falcons, in essence this is the same to the this ideaology Side A omg they have more people/too many we are brave enough to fight we need more people! Side B we need more people theyve just got more, get the falcons! Side A omg they have falcons, we need more/some falcons! Side B we need more falcons! Side A Moar falcons! Side B MOAR! Its bad enough as it is, but alteast people wont be completely removed from a fight ` whilst the other side eventually primaries them if ECM was reworked, not removed :) "ECM is balanced but not fun, lets make it fun" but all the suggestions amount to "let's gimp ECM to the equivalent of a 100 mil isk shuttle" Right, because thats not what a falcon does to every other ship, 250m semi faction fitted command ship? more like 250m shuttle with a tank and nice loot drop i surpose its even funnier when the falcon is just a blackbird, and that it does it from a 2-3 month character That speaks balance to me BIG `But to make ECM a moronic "crap shoot" module` Rofl, what was this some snippet the design phase? because thats what it does,to everything else, its the equivilent of holding a midget at arms length, and punching him in the face with the other, leaving him unable to retaliate other than hurl abusive language. like shooting ducks in barrel, quite a effective `crap shoot` i would say As for fitting ECCM? id like to see a active tanking, tackling shield tanking ship with mwd ignoring buffer bs, which can loose a slot to ECCM?, nothing smaller than a bs afaik certainly no t2 ship. ECCM is a armor tankers pleasure but even then most of them sacrifice an injector or tackling gear, perhaps a low slot version or buffing the sensor booster to give both scripted bonuses and a increase to sensor strength race regardless. And after that the gimping of setup with current ECCM your still not that safe, maybe taking up one more jammer, that saying if the falcon actually jams you through a fight in the first place `It would add the ability to make ecm useless for ppl who are emo about getting jammed.` Of course, everyone loves being jammed, and those who dont, are obviously wrist slitting emos, not normal players being completely removed from a fight by an overpowered ship and module in their XYZ ship because it doesnt matter unless its gimp fitted with ECCM (if it works or they get ECM`d in the first place) Basically id like to see a rework of ECM, along this white noise idea, like real ECM, disrupting equipment.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.10 14:30:00 - [145] Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 14:30:57 Originally by: CAiNE999 lol, what like blobbing falcons instead? Blobs of falcons are pointless as you cannot assign so many individual jams to so many individual ships while in combat, its imposable. Originally by: CAiNE999 Basically id like to see a rework of ECM, along this white noise idea, like real ECM, disrupting equipment. Targeting systems are "equipment" and ECM disrupts them, so yay its fine. PS: You need to work on your quoting as you are barely understandable and seem like your ranting.
Pen Dulum	Posted - 2009.01.10 14:43:00 - [146] Fix ECCM. Then you wont see as many whines about falcons, cause lets face it eccm just doesnt work. Like last week me and some mate's went to fight a alliance we dec'd, 4 of us vs 12 of them (they had 12 on gate) we jump in in domi's fitted with a ECCM t2 in mid slot. A Falcon uncloaks 150k away and even with eccm fitted STILL jammed us so we just soaked up the dps and jumped out as quite frankly there is no point even fighting.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.10 14:49:00 - [147] Edited by: Murina on 10/01/2009 14:50:46 Originally by: Pen Dulum Fix ECCM. Then you wont see as many whines about falcons, cause lets face it eccm just doesnt work. Like last week me and some mate's went to fight a alliance we dec'd, 4 of us vs 12 of them (they had 12 on gate) we jump in in domi's fitted with a ECCM t2 in mid slot. A Falcon uncloaks 150k away and even with eccm fitted STILL jammed us so we just soaked up the dps and jumped out as quite frankly there is no point even fighting. ECCM should not make you immune to ECM just make you harder to be jammed and it works fine. And it serves you right for flying one race of ship using static, immobile and predictable tactics and giving them the option to fit one type of racial jammer at max str against you. Lack of versatility and mobility was your problem not ecm.
Fuazzole	Posted - 2009.01.10 14:53:00 - [148] buff eccm!
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.10 14:54:00 - [149] agree with the op and i have stated this before, my mains points are always, i dont mind it can jam alot, or i dont mind it can jam a little at 150km.. just dont like it can do both! if it had alot more sting in its falloff, ie it would lost 90% strenth at 150km, or somthing like that, it just sits 170km away messing with things and u have to sit there and watch the rest of the fight. if does make me laugh when im gate camping or camping a station when a fight kicks off, and they insta jam me then attack then call me a wimp in local for not fighting and just docking or jumping! im always WTF i CANT lock u, u have me jammed, drop the ewar and ill fight you, damned idiots!
CAiNE999 Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.01.10 14:58:00 - [150] Targeting as in locking a ship is not equipment, modules are equipment in that sense your saying ECM should shut off propulsion, your hud, and your overview, as those are `equipment` on ships as well As for my lack of quote usage, perhaps I`don't choose to use the annoying qoute format that ends up pyramiding and chooose to seperate them like titling headings And ranting, try making a contribution to the ECM problem, because you know it is, why everyone and their mother has a character solely devoted to flying one specific ship is just a big FOTY. instead of calling someone emo, Try not trolling and be productive ECM IS NOT FINE!



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