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Tell me again why stealing salvage is ok?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Arous Drephius Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:10:00 - [31] Originally by: CCP Prism X it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Devpwnt.
Jara Made	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:11:00 - [32] Yarr, I want to be a tinker when I grow up!
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:13:00 - [33] Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further. Simple solution to the non-issue. Please don't take this as any bashing just for suggesting ideas. I have nothing against brainstorming on the forums. However, I'm going to let you in on a little CCP non-secret which is: "NPE". EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around. <3
EnslaverOfMinmatar	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:16:00 - [34] Buy a Nightmare and STFU!!!!!! uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
Primnproper	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:16:00 - [35] Originally by: Rainson Arrvax Originally by: Salliene Originally by: Rainson Arrvax Originally by: Kale Kold Ahhh... carebears tears! yum yum. Ah, the cheer of the ass! Care Bear Care Bear! Like living your life as a 12 year old is some great human jump in human evolution. You win, you are a superior human being and so strong...sitting there behind your computer screen. Oh, you make me so hot. You're power is sooooo intoxicating. Oh, tell me how much better you are than those of us with different goals in a game. Oh yes...yes...yes... Boy, that was great. Thanks for spending the time on someone so pathetic! Do you act this way when someone takes one of your pawns in chess (assuming you know how to play)? OMG, that's so funny. I can't believe that God didn't break the mold after you. Please, post some more about your greatness and how everyone else is not worth the air they take up. Its still soooo hot. Come on, I need it. Just so you know going off on one like this makes you look like a child, not the person who called you a carebear. Also one of the reasons people grief is to get exactly this sort of response from people who can't take being called names on the internet. As the old saying goes "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will (or should) never harm me"...
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:24:00 - [36] TBH I'd like to see aggression given to people who salvage other people's wrecks. This has absolutely nothing to do with buffing mission runners (I myself run missions in highsec on an alt, I don't salvage and really don't care if someone else does), but has more to do with the way eve in general works. In eve, if someone does something that ****es you off, you go and deal with them, or at least you have the option to. As it stands salvaging as a profession is just too easy to get into and has virtually no risk. You can nearly match a mission runner's income, without needing many skills, or an expensive ship. If you screw up and die, you lose a frigate, ONOES! It also bothers me that people try to bring dictionary definitions to this argument, when they clearly do not belong. "Go look up the word salvage" Oh? How about YOU go look up the word JETTISON. A jetcan is just as much "junk" as the wreck of a ship. And while we're at it: Let's allow dreadnoughts in highsec, because it's technically a battleship, just with an all-big-guns mentality. Dictionary definitions have no place in an argument about game mechanics.Period. What exactly is the reasoning behind not allowing people to shoot ninja salvagers? Giving them the ability certainly wouldn't stop the salvagers from doing what they do, so that crap about making it too easy/profitable to run missions is bunk, the only reason to do it is to make it as easy as possible to ninja-salvage, which given the potential income just doesn't make any sense.
InSession Shuugouteki	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:02:00 - [37] Edited by: InSession on 13/01/2009 18:01:54 <3 CCP I love the hostile game environment, don't ever lose it!
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:04:00 - [38] Originally by: CCP Prism X EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. then why are you making it less and less hostile for each expantion? Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:19:00 - [39] Originally by: Rainson Arrvax I spend over an hour on a mission and then have some ass steal half the salvage. Of course...the jerkoff is in an NPC corp so I have no recourse. Simple solution: If you're in an NPC corp taking salvage makes you attackable. If you're not then it doesn't. At least then I can wardeck you. Simple solution: move on to another less populated system where there's no salvage thiefs. Problem solved, no need for any code change. ------------------------------------------
Ironshirt Ocean Level Deep DeStInY.	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:20:00 - [40] I read somewhere in another thread that warping out and leaving the salvager to deal with the mission spawns is moderately effective.
Johli Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:23:00 - [41] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: CCP Prism X EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. then why are you making it less and less hostile for each expantion? 10 bucks salvage theft is nerfed somehow with Apocalypha.
fatherted1989 Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:24:00 - [42] Tell em over local you've dropped em some stuff in a can. Works once in a while
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:25:00 - [43] Once in a blue moon some salvager takes the trouble of scanning my wrecks out where I do missions. Sometimes he's able to salvage those wrecks before I can. Personally, he's welcome to the salvage. Yes, I lose some Isk on it, but it's not a lot and can really help some new player get further in the game. Or he can make it his little profession to do this, if he hasn't already. Me, I think he's welcome to the salvage, as he has to actually work for it as well, and the Isk I lose on it is minimal anyway. If he goes beyond this, I can pop his ass. Why people get so worked up over a little bit of salvage is really beyond me. Seriously, get a grip and be a bit more generous. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Battleclash	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:29:00 - [44] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: CCP Prism X EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. then why are you making it less and less hostile for each expantion? They're not making it less hostile, you're just becoming more emo Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:34:00 - [45] Originally by: Schalac So we all can laugh at you for taking so long in a mission and then steal your salvage. /thread.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:39:00 - [46] Originally by: Battleclash Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: CCP Prism X EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. then why are you making it less and less hostile for each expantion? They're not making it less hostile, you're just becoming more emo Yeah you're right. "Concord buffs" was actually the name of a goth band and "Wreck Ownership Change" was their hit single.
Napro Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:40:00 - [47] This is really all I can do now. CCP (at the behest of the whiners) Nerfed every single ship I'm capable of flying. My Missile skills are meaningless in PvP. I have no drone skills to solo Level 4s. Thank all the nerfs for making Ninjasalvaging my only viable occupation
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:58:00 - [48] Buy an alt...get it into an Orca. Problem solved. Or you can setyourself up for pvp and kill whatever comes to steal if they try ganking you after you shoot 'em... There ARE tactics... Karrade-Confirming all pirate babies come from me Surfin's PlunderBunny-I always knew you were a woman Karrade-I am a man of many talents.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:07:00 - [49] I think I'm gonna start a new character and put him in a corp called *****Corp and do nothing but start threads like this with it all day. I need to be banned again tbh so I don't get distracted by the forum
DHG Cold Blooded Killers	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:21:00 - [50] Originally by: Ironshirt I read somewhere in another thread that warping out and leaving the salvager to deal with the mission spawns is moderately effective. I absolutely love it when a guy leaves me alone when I try to ninja salvage a highly profitable, npc BS heavy mission! After he leaves, I just swap out for a BS, run the mission, kill all the rats & possibly ransom back the mission objective for a nice amount of isk. Mad fun when carebears in a steaming rage try to suicide gank my covert ops after they discovered how badly they screwed themselves! Seriously, best thing to do is just accept the fact somebody is salvaging and not waste any more time on it. Ok, it might hurt your income a bit, but in the end, it's way less than loosing all the bounties and perhaps paying a ransom for some object you need.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:42:00 - [51] Originally by: DHG Originally by: Ironshirt I read somewhere in another thread that warping out and leaving the salvager to deal with the mission spawns is moderately effective. I absolutely love it when a guy leaves me alone when I try to ninja salvage a highly profitable, npc BS heavy mission! After he leaves, I just swap out for a BS, run the mission, kill all the rats & possibly ransom back the mission objective for a nice amount of isk. Mad fun when carebears in a steaming rage try to suicide gank my covert ops after they discovered how badly they screwed themselves! Seriously, best thing to do is just accept the fact somebody is salvaging and not waste any more time on it. Ok, it might hurt your income a bit, but in the end, it's way less than loosing all the bounties and perhaps paying a ransom for some object you need. I find this quote amusing, because it illustrates my point quite nicely. A salvage thief actually has the ability to ransom a mission runner if said carebear tries to act upon the theft, all the while the salvage thief himself never risks anything bigger then a frigate, and that's a problem.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:46:00 - [52] Edited by: Ghengis Tia on 13/01/2009 19:46:50 Some lazy players enjoy being considered thieves and parasites. Rather than run their own missions, they rely on hard-working players to provide them a chance at some income. If the salvage is a significant part of the mission rewards, so what? Your combat skills, ammo, and risking the mission in the first place are considered of no value to them, even though you were directly responsible for creating the wrecks in the first place. They justify their behavior by saying "it is a legal game mechanic", "you get enough from missions anyway", and "I trained salvaging skills so I've earned the right to salvage". Most of them haven't the common courtesy to ask the mission runner or explorer for the salvage, they just start salvaging and f*** the other player. Move to a more remote area to mission, as the leeches prefer heavily populated mission areas to make their "occupation" even easier.
Huberek Morchu	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:50:00 - [53] Edited by: Huberek Morchu on 13/01/2009 19:53:32 Edited by: Huberek Morchu on 13/01/2009 19:52:09 Funny how you own the loot in the wreck, but not the wreck. Pick one or the other, CCP. I say put it back to no one own the wreck or the loot. Then we can hear everyone whine about ore theives again. I would also nerf loot and salvage. Too much isk there.
Malvorak Amarr IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.13 19:53:00 - [54] Stealing salvage its not ok, but who cares, its fun!! "I wave my private parts at your aunties son of a window dresser"
Mikal Drey Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:03:00 - [55] Edited by: Mikal Drey on 13/01/2009 20:06:19 Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further. not to be picky or anything but when wrecks and salvaging were first introduced they caused a criminal flag if you salvaged wrecks which didnt "belong" to you and you werent ganged. you could criminally flag someone deliberatly by dropping gang or by simply warping off grid when they were mid salvage. It was changed to the current design. oh and the server believes that the wreck ownership belongs to the player who accepted the mission http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=766902 so its a catch 22 situation. the wrecks belong to the player and the salvage inside them is fair game to anyone. so can we have a mechanic where the wreck stays in space as a wreckage and the salvage inside doesnt destroy the actual wreck. that way when people complain their wrecks are being stolen in fact they arent.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Ghengis Tia Some lazy players enjoy being considered thieves and parasites. Rather than run their own missions, they rely on hard-working players HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Running missions? Hard work? You're doing it wrong. It's far more work to scan people down and nick their wrecks than it is to create those wrecks to begin with (the latter can be done AFK ffs!). Quote: Your combat skills, ammo, and risking the mission in the first place are considered of no value Combat skills have far wide application than missions, so no they don't really add anything. Ammmo? You get bounties as reward for expending it, so that value is already covered. Risk? Non-existant and thus has no value. Quote: Most of them haven't the common courtesy to ask the mission runner or explorer for the salvage, they just start salvaging and f*** the other player. Why should they? It's there for the taking. I suppose you expect miners to ask others before they can use the same belt? You want the salvage? Then take it and don't leave it for others. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Hugo Splat Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:17:00 - [57] Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further. Simple solution to the non-issue. Please don't take this as any bashing just for suggesting ideas. I have nothing against brainstorming on the forums. However, I'm going to let you in on a little CCP non-secret which is: "NPE". EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around. And here I was thinking 'Risk vs Reward' was a big part of the CCP plan also. Can you point out to me where the risk is please? I see the reward, I am just having trouble finding the risk.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:22:00 - [58] Originally by: Hugo Splat And here I was thinking 'Risk vs Reward' was a big part of the CCP plan also. Can you point out to me where the risk is please? I see the reward, I am just having trouble finding the risk. It's the same as for the mission runner. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:33:00 - [59] However, agreeing that pilots shouldn;t be allowed to hide in NPC corps.
Fish Hunter	Posted - 2009.01.13 20:34:00 - [60] If there's a ninja salvager about and you are getting ****ed off. Then just think of it as they are keeping the price of rigs lower than they would be otherwise. But really i've done a bit myself when i ran out of isk. And anyone who says they can make 15mil isk an hour salvaging is getting too lucky, i'd say its more around 5. If they are polite and ask if they can salvage be nice to them back and they will continue to be polite. Not a whole lot you can do if they beat you to your salvage though. Oh and for everyone that makes their own rigs from their salvage with an unreasearched bpo and no skills for every 4 rigs you make a manufacturer with the proper skills can make 5 with less parts.

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