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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
   |
Posted - 2009.01.14 09:28:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Mintoko on 14/01/2009 09:29:04
 Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ghengis Tia
Some lazy players enjoy being considered thieves and parasites.
Rather than run their own missions, they rely on hard-working players
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH 
Running missions? Hard work? You're doing it wrong. It's far more work to scan people down and nick their wrecks than it is to create those wrecks to begin with (the latter can be done AFK ffs!).
If it's so much easier to create the wrecks than it is to find them, then go run missions yourself and stop being a leech.
It's not right that someone can follow the ship I'm shooting and immediately salvage it just after it pops. At that point, there is no opportunity to clean up as I go. You must also consider that targets can be much further than the range of a tractor beam, so immediately salvaging our own wrecks is out of the question. Plus you lose two high slots to a tractor beam and salvager.
Regardless of how the server code considers salvage, the wreck itself is still color coded according to whether or not it belongs to you. That alone could be used to trigger a criminal flag.
Not everyone can afford a second account with which to train and operate a salvage alt and not everyone can run two accounts on the same system at the same time.
CCP is constantly "balancing" the game, but in this case, there is no balance. They can steal the salvage and I can't do anything about it. How is that balanced? |
Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 09:34:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Hugo Splat
And here I was thinking 'Risk vs Reward' was a big part of the CCP plan also.
Can you point out to me where the risk is please? I see the reward, I am just having trouble finding the risk.
You're missing the 'Effort' part of that equation.
Stealing salvage is a fairly worthless activity, imho. You won't make much money at all with guristas or serpentis loot, and the rest seem akin to grinding lv2 missions, imho. So laugth at the thieves, either they're fools, or they do this to annoy you, and mocking them will make their acts pointless. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 09:53:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Mintoko
If it's so much easier to create the wrecks than it is to find them, then go run missions yourself and stop being a leech.
I do run missions. That's why I know how AFK-ishly easy it is.
Quote:
It's not right that someone can follow the ship I'm shooting and immediately salvage it just after it pops.
Apart from the fact that it is right, the question has to be asked: why do you let them? If you have an uninvited salvager in your mission, why do you keep feeding him wrecks?
Quote:
Plus you lose two high slots to a tractor beam and salvager.
Lose two slots or lose the salvage — your choice. (Or fly a ship where you have two non-weapon highslots, and it won't feel like such a loss).
Quote:
They can steal the salvage and I can't do anything about it. How is that balanced?
Apart from the fact that they can't steal salvage and that you can do something about it, you get first right of refusal (on top of bounties and loot) — they get sloppy seconds. Seems more than balanced to me… or rather, over-balanced in favour of the wreck-creator. |
Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:12:00 -
[94]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
It is impossible to "steal" salvage by design. It is waste that belongs to no one. You can't claim it any more than you could claim space dust.
Again, you're playing with the definition of salvage. Stop it. :)
My proposal....allow us the ability to freely shoot those who STEAL our salvage. If the mission area is closed with existing wrecks, then it's fair game. Of course, the ability to locate areas with wreckage will need to be added. ATM, you can see it on your scanner, but can't warp to it unless you're warping to a ship in the same general area. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:14:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Mintoko
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
It is impossible to "steal" salvage by design. It is waste that belongs to no one. You can't claim it any more than you could claim space dust.
Again, you're playing with the definition of salvage. Stop it. :)
My proposal....allow us the ability to freely shoot those who STEAL our salvage. If the mission area is closed with existing wrecks, then it's fair game. Of course, the ability to locate areas with wreckage will need to be added. ATM, you can see it on your scanner, but can't warp to it unless you're warping to a ship in the same general area.
Your proposal has already been made many times, considered and rejected by CCP.
See Dev response in this very thread. |
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:17:00 -
[96]
my proposal a few months back was this leaving all existing things as they are
wrecks-cans will now stay active in space for 6 hours
2 hours loot cans - loot are exclusive to those that create them
wrecks remain common property
After 2 hours up to 6 hours said cans-wrecks become visiable and scannable to all perhaps with existing probes. During that 2-6 hour period if they are uncliamed by the owner under 2 hours they become findable scannable and accessible to anyone ( will also give in low sec areas) scavangers and corp mates who run in the same area a chance to stumble across missions, amols and belt wrecks-loot and pickup.
This will put more items into the market, or simply for melting. And will make salvage, cleanup and general ninja professions more acceptible
Will also fulfill ccps promise of making wrecks scannable
The important point here is under 2 hours wrecks will not be scannable with probes or onboard scanner.. THey will remain the property of the owner aned they can only be scanned with the usual drone-ship scanning situation we have now.
Perhaps to satisify the carebears a 30 minute salvage timer can be implemented from time of creation giving them the rights to shoot anyone who salvages under 30 minutes perhaps a new colour wreck-can ( might also be extendable to general loot cans also)
so under 30 minutes - exclusive kill rights on salvage+looting - blue can or wreck
30 min - 2 hour = yellow existing system kill rights for loot not salvage
2-6 hours free for all all wrecks scannable.
Comment
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Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:18:00 -
[97]
Quote:
Apart from the fact that it is right, the question has to be asked: why do you let them? If you have an uninvited salvager in your mission, why do you keep feeding him wrecks?
What are we supposed to do, just stop running the mission? Some missions are on a tight schedule, some people don't have the luxury of spending all day online. If they stop the mission so that they quit feeding you wrecks, they waste their time just sitting around doing nothing.
Quote:
Lose two slots or lose the salvage ù your choice. (Or fly a ship where you have two non-weapon highslots, and it won't feel like such a loss).
Personally, I don't have a problem with this. My ship has the two extra slot for tractor and salvager.
Quote:
Apart from the fact that they can't steal salvage and that you can do something about it, you get first right of refusal (on top of bounties and loot) ù they get sloppy seconds. Seems more than balanced to meà or rather, over-balanced in favour of the wreck-creator.
you're still ignoring the fact that not all wrecks are within the 20km range of the tractor beam....Factor in a slow moving battleship and there is no chance for your "first right of refusal". How is this balance?
|
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:20:00 -
[98]
my proposal a few months back was this leaving all existing things as they are
wrecks-cans will now stay active in space for 6 hours
2 hours loot cans - loot are exclusive to those that create them
wrecks remain common property
After 2 hours up to 6 hours said cans-wrecks become visiable and scannable to all perhaps with existing probes. During that 2-6 hour period if they are uncliamed by the owner under 2 hours they become findable scannable and accessible to anyone ( will also give in low sec areas) scavangers and corp mates who run in the same area a chance to stumble across missions, amols and belt wrecks-loot and pickup.
This will put more items into the market, or simply for melting. And will make salvage, cleanup and general ninja professions more acceptible
Will also fulfill ccps promise of making wrecks scannable
The important point here is under 2 hours wrecks will not be scannable with probes or onboard scanner.. THey will remain the property of the owner aned they can only be scanned with the usual drone-ship scanning situation we have now.
Perhaps to satisify the carebears a 30 minute salvage timer can be implemented from time of creation giving them the rights to shoot anyone who salvages under 30 minutes perhaps a new colour wreck-can ( might also be extendable to general loot cans also)
so under 30 minutes - exclusive kill rights on salvage+looting - blue can or wreck
30 min - 2 hour = yellow existing system kill rights for loot not salvage
2-6 hours free for all all wrecks scannable.
Comment
lets add in the 2-6 hour period cans-wrecks turn white and are tractorable by whoever gets locks on it first - it could loose all tags and be for whoever finds it
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Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:21:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Malcanis
Your proposal has already been made many times, considered and rejected by CCP.
See Dev response in this very thread.
I've read this entire thread and found no dev response to the exact proposal and I don't have time to sift through the entire forum. If you're going to give reference to a previous decision, afford others the courtesy of a link.
|
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:24:00 -
[100]
my proposal a few months back was this leaving all existing things as they are
wrecks-cans will now stay active in space for 6 hours
2 hours loot cans - loot are exclusive to those that create them
wrecks remain common property
After 2 hours up to 6 hours said cans-wrecks become visiable and scannable to all perhaps with existing probes. During that 2-6 hour period if they are uncliamed by the owner under 2 hours they become findable scannable and accessible to anyone ( will also give in low sec areas) scavangers and corp mates who run in the same area a chance to stumble across missions, amols and belt wrecks-loot and pickup.
This will put more items into the market, or simply for melting. And will make salvage, cleanup and general ninja professions more acceptible
Will also fulfill ccps promise of making wrecks scannable
The important point here is under 2 hours wrecks will not be scannable with probes or onboard scanner.. THey will remain the property of the owner aned they can only be scanned with the usual drone-ship scanning situation we have now.
Perhaps to satisify the carebears a 30 minute salvage timer can be implemented from time of creation giving them the rights to shoot anyone who salvages under 30 minutes perhaps a new colour wreck-can ( might also be extendable to general loot cans also)
so under 30 minutes - exclusive kill rights on salvage+looting - blue can or wreck
30 min - 2 hour = yellow existing system kill rights for loot not salvage
2-6 hours free for all all wrecks scannable.
In addition 2-6 hours all cans become unowned ( and wrecks) and are tractorable by whomever gets the lock on it also. ( ownership tags vanish after 2 hours)
Comment
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:32:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Mintoko
Originally by: Malcanis
Your proposal has already been made many times, considered and rejected by CCP.
See Dev response in this very thread.
I've read this entire thread and found no dev response to the exact proposal and I don't have time to sift through the entire forum. If you're going to give reference to a previous decision, afford others the courtesy of a link.
See the sticky thread in the missions forum.
|
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:34:00 -
[102]
my proposal a few months back was this leaving all existing things as they are
wrecks-cans will now stay active in space for 6 hours
2 hours loot cans - loot are exclusive to those that create them
wrecks remain common property
After 2 hours up to 6 hours said cans-wrecks become visiable and scannable to all perhaps with existing probes. During that 2-6 hour period if they are uncliamed by the owner under 2 hours they become findable scannable and accessible to anyone ( will also give in low sec areas) scavangers and corp mates who run in the same area a chance to stumble across missions, amols and belt wrecks-loot and pickup.
This will put more items into the market, or simply for melting. And will make salvage, cleanup and general ninja professions more acceptible
Will also fulfill ccps promise of making wrecks scannable
The important point here is under 2 hours wrecks will not be scannable with probes or onboard scanner.. THey will remain the property of the owner aned they can only be scanned with the usual drone-ship scanning situation we have now.
Perhaps to satisify the carebears a 30 minute salvage timer can be implemented from time of creation giving them the rights to shoot anyone who salvages under 30 minutes perhaps a new colour wreck-can ( might also be extendable to general loot cans also)
so under 30 minutes - exclusive kill rights on salvage+looting - blue can or wreck
30 min - 2 hour = yellow existing system kill rights for loot not salvage
2-6 hours free for all all wrecks scannable.
In addition 2-6 hours all cans become unowned ( and wrecks) and are tractorable by whomever gets the lock on it also. ( ownership tags vanish after 2 hours)
Comment
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:36:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mintoko
What are we supposed to do, just stop running the mission?
Yes. If they are there and keep beating you to the punch, stop doing it. Easy.
Quote:
Some missions are on a tight schedule, some people don't have the luxury of spending all day online.
Such as? I have yet to see a single mission that can't be done in half the speed-bonus time. This includes the 6h missions, and comes from me who likes flying (supposedly) underpowered ship which (also supposedly) take longer than neeed to finish the missions. Think blaster-battlecruiser here.
I can't spend all day online either, and I have no problem finishing these missions. (As an aside, many of the longer ones are highly farmable and you don't want to finish them in one day anyway — the bounties, loot and salvage of even a single repeat outweighs the time bonus by far).
Quote:
you're still ignoring the fact that not all wrecks are within the 20km range of the tractor beam....Factor in a slow moving battleship and there is no chance for your "first right of refusal".
You chose to use a battleship. You chose to kill the thing. You chose to kill them at that range. You are in complete control of every aspect of where and when the wreck will appear — you have first right of refusal, period.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:37:00 -
[104]
my proposal a few months back was this leaving all existing things as they are
wrecks-cans will now stay active in space for 6 hours
2 hours loot cans - loot are exclusive to those that create them
wrecks remain common property
After 2 hours up to 6 hours said cans-wrecks become visiable and scannable to all perhaps with existing probes. During that 2-6 hour period if they are uncliamed by the owner under 2 hours they become findable scannable and accessible to anyone ( will also give in low sec areas) scavangers and corp mates who run in the same area a chance to stumble across missions, amols and belt wrecks-loot and pickup.
This will put more items into the market, or simply for melting. And will make salvage, cleanup and general ninja professions more acceptible
Will also fulfill ccps promise of making wrecks scannable
The important point here is under 2 hours wrecks will not be scannable with probes or onboard scanner.. THey will remain the property of the owner aned they can only be scanned with the usual drone-ship scanning situation we have now.
Perhaps to satisify the carebears a 30 minute salvage timer can be implemented from time of creation giving them the rights to shoot anyone who salvages under 30 minutes perhaps a new colour wreck-can ( might also be extendable to general loot cans also)
so under 30 minutes - exclusive kill rights on salvage+looting - blue can or wreck
30 min - 2 hour = yellow existing system kill rights for loot not salvage
2-6 hours free for all all wrecks scannable.
In addition 2-6 hours all cans become unowned ( and wrecks) and are tractorable by whomever gets the lock on it also. ( ownership tags vanish after 2 hours)
Comment
|
Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:47:00 -
[105]
ollobrains2, stop spamming your post. |
Rondo Gunn
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:50:00 -
[106]
Because.
Now, please, get over it. Trit bars aren't were THAT much... |
Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Because.
Now, please, get over it. Trit bars aren't were THAT much...
What are you talking about? |
Rondo Gunn
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:56:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Mintoko
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Because.
Now, please, get over it. Trit bars aren't were THAT much...
What are you talking about?
Answering the OP's titular query my good man. What are you talking about?
shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |
Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 10:59:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Mintoko on 14/01/2009 11:00:19
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Answering the OP's titular query my good man. What are you talking about?
To make it easier for others to understand your response, please use the "quote" button. Otherwise, we have no idea who you're talking to. The OP had made no mention of trit bars, so your response made no sense.
|
Rondo Gunn
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:02:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Mintoko
Edited by: Mintoko on 14/01/2009 11:00:19
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Answering the OP's titular query my good man. What are you talking about?
To make it easier for others to understand your response, please use the "quote" button. Otherwise, we have no idea who you're talking to. The OP had made no mention of trit bars, so your response made no sense.
No, I think you only wanted to know if I was talking too you. Lonely? Do you need to cuddle? Well, don't look at me man, I don't swing that way, ya dig?
shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |
Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:06:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Originally by: Mintoko
Edited by: Mintoko on 14/01/2009 11:00:19
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Answering the OP's titular query my good man. What are you talking about?
To make it easier for others to understand your response, please use the "quote" button. Otherwise, we have no idea who you're talking to. The OP had made no mention of trit bars, so your response made no sense.
No, I think you only wanted to know if I was talking too you. Lonely? Do you need to cuddle? Well, don't look at me man, I don't swing that way, ya dig?
Don't be a smart a**. I knew you weren't talking to me, but I couldn't tell who you were talking to.
|
Davina Braben
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:11:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Davina Braben on 14/01/2009 11:15:38
This thread is so epic I think I'm going to start salvaging other people's wrecks
|
Rondo Gunn
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:15:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Mintoko
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Originally by: Mintoko
Edited by: Mintoko on 14/01/2009 11:00:19
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Answering the OP's titular query my good man. What are you talking about?
To make it easier for others to understand your response, please use the "quote" button. Otherwise, we have no idea who you're talking to. The OP had made no mention of trit bars, so your response made no sense.
No, I think you only wanted to know if I was talking too you. Lonely? Do you need to cuddle? Well, don't look at me man, I don't swing that way, ya dig?
Don't be a smart a**. I knew you weren't talking to me, but I couldn't tell who you were talking to.
I would rather be a smartass than a dumbass any day of the week. Buck up son.
shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |
Napro
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:21:00 -
[114]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK?
If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further.
'Nuff Said.
Quit your tears, Carebears |
Mintoko
Gallente
Nova Remnants
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:26:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK?
If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further.
'Nuff Said.
Quit your tears, Carebears
Not all mission runners are carebears. |
Napro
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:33:00 -
[116]
The ones producing the tears are carebears. Why do they think they're owed so much from CCP for missioning? If you don't like the mechanics of mission-grinding.... quit grinding!
Really don't even see why their arguing for an aggression timer... I salvage in a AF and I'd run circles against any PvE fitted ship |
Vincent Death
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:33:00 -
[117]
Apparently a lot of us are whiny idiots though.
Oh noes, someone is stealing my salvage! I know, I'll continue missioning in overcrowded hubs without alts/low sp friends to salvage for me. I definitely will not change my fitting or even leave the mission for a few seconds to make things harder for my uninvited quest. Any problem that I encounter must immediately be addressed because my money is worth more than the salvage thief's.
TL:DR sarcasm free version: Dodos adapt quicker than you. |
Kitty McKitty
Gallente
The Kitty Kitty Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:36:00 -
[118]
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS
THEY ARE NOT YOUR WRECKS |
Hungo
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:36:00 -
[119]
I had this problem, so i started getting people ninjaring my missions, so i used a golem and salvaged as i went along, i thin had my alt in a cov ops sat in the mission area and when they trie to flip my cans i scrammed n owned him |
Xylia Ailyx
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:37:00 -
[120]
The word "stealing" in the topic line is misleading, how can you steal that which has no owner?
The only entity I could see as "the owner" of mission wrecks would be the NPC pirate corp (True Power for instance), not the guy who blew them up |
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