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Is the Falcon really overpowered?

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Embarcadero	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:47:00 - [541] Originally by: Broker Al Hehehe, this thread is turning into a comedy thread. The more Embarcadero posts, the more I smile. I`m not even sure the guy is serious, the trolling is so off the scale it cant be serious. Hai lectrotta. You sure has a lot of alts.
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:49:00 - [542] Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: Broker Al Hehehe, this thread is turning into a comedy thread. The more Embarcadero posts, the more I smile. I`m not even sure the guy is serious, the trolling is so off the scale it cant be serious. Hai lectrotta. You sure has a lot of alts. at least he does not fail at very basic maths. But hey when you flip a coin twice the chance you get head once is 100% cause it's 50% + 50%, right? :D
Embarcadero	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:57:00 - [543] thanatos with eccm vs 1 single falcon http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5217/thanatosfp4.jpg hai lecrotta and army of his alts ;]
cianide pro	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:00:00 - [544] Would like to see a boost tbh like 1 or 2 more high slots for more launchers so it can do some damage, now its crap.
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:01:00 - [545] Quote: So you don't know how ECM works? Nice way to pawn yourself 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20% .. 5th ECM activation ~70 str, 70 / 140 = 50% Nice way to pawn yourself newb. I thought I was done with this thread, but this post just confirmed my suspicion... So before you post any more drivel i suggest you read this: EW Guide If that not enough, here is some more: EW guide download The facts are there. In my opinion this thread has run it`s course. No point on discussing game mechanics with a troll that obviously have no clue how the actual game mechanic under discussion works.
Embarcadero	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:03:00 - [546] Originally by: chrisss0r at least he does not fail at very basic maths. But hey when you flip a coin twice the chance you get head once is 100% cause it's 50% + 50%, right? :D Its not flipping coin. The chance raises cause sensor strength of ECM applied to target raises. Even though they getting penalized the resulting chance of getting eccmed carrier jammed is nearly 50%. And over time of activation of ECM modules the chance of getting a jam going will be nearly 100% 0.46 * 0.4 * 0.34 * 0.27 * 0.19 * 0.1 Do maths yourself if you consider yourself so strong at it. ;]
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:04:00 - [547] Originally by: Embarcadero thanatos with eccm vs 1 single falcon http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5217/thanatosfp4.jpg hai lecrotta and army of his alts ;] yeah 1-((1-(14.7/149))^6)= 0.463 while your stupid method of epic fail would return a jamming chance of (14.7*6)/149= 0.591 So stop failing you stupid moron
Embarcadero	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:04:00 - [548] Originally by: TZeer So before you post any more drivel i suggest you read this: EW Guide Did you read it yourself? ;]
Embarcadero	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:06:00 - [549] Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: Embarcadero thanatos with eccm vs 1 single falcon http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5217/thanatosfp4.jpg hai lecrotta and army of his alts ;] yeah 1-((1-(14.7/149))^6)= 0.463 while your stupid method of epic fail would return a jamming chance of (14.7*6)/149= 0.591 So stop failing you stupid moron 72% according to EFT due to stack penalization. Way to pawn yourself once again lectortta
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:07:00 - [550] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:07:20 Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20%

chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:08:00 - [551] Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:07:20 Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... i actually wonder how he is able to breathe
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:09:00 - [552] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:09:00 Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: lecrotta Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... i actually wonder how he is able to breathe Cos you can either breath in or breath out so with 2 lungs you get a 50% chance of each over time = ...... Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20%
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:10:00 - [553] Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:09:00 Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: lecrotta Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... i actually wonder how he is able to breathe Cos you can either breath in or breath out so with 2 lungs you get a 50% chance of each over time = ...... well maybe he's just very young so there is still a chance. although i actually doubt it. just amazing how dumb people tend to show off with dumbness
Embarcadero	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:11:00 - [554] Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:07:20 Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... So your ran out of arguments? Tired of pwning yourself into the face?
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:13:00 - [555] Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: chrisss0r at least he does not fail at very basic maths. But hey when you flip a coin twice the chance you get head once is 100% cause it's 50% + 50%, right? :D Its not flipping coin. The chance raises cause sensor strength of ECM applied to target raises. Even though they getting penalized the resulting chance of getting eccmed carrier jammed is nearly 50%. And over time of activation of ECM modules the chance of getting a jam going will be nearly 100% 0.46 * 0.4 * 0.34 * 0.27 * 0.19 * 0.1 Do maths yourself if you consider yourself so strong at it. ;] Funny enough this solves in 0.0003209. We have a real genius here
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:14:00 - [556] Edited by: chrisss0r on 30/01/2009 10:15:05 Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:07:20 Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... So your ran out of arguments? Tired of pwning yourself into the face? Nah i just love the irony of some kid failing at basic math trying to tell me how statistic calculus works :) Ah was aimed at lecrotta. Yeah actually we are twins we just live at different corners of the world
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:18:00 - [557] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 10:21:12 Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: Embarcadero Originally by: lecrotta Oh dear....oh dear oh dear oh dear.... So your ran out of arguments? Tired of pwning yourself into the face? Nah i just love the irony of some kid failing at basic math trying to tell me how statistic calculus works :) Ah was aimed at lecrotta. Yeah actually we are twins we just live at different corners of the world Yup former Siamese twins joined at the genitals until the age of 23, he got the lefty i got the righty... Anyway, BOOST ECCM AND GIVE IT A SECOND USEFUL COMBAT BONUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:31:00 - [558] Originally by: Embarcadero So your ran out of arguments? Tired of pwning yourself into the face? Thanks for the LOLSIG.. Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20%
MaggySmith	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:41:00 - [559] Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: Embarcadero And over time of activation of ECM modules the chance of getting a jam going will be nearly 100% 0.46 * 0.4 * 0.34 * 0.27 * 0.19 * 0.1 Do maths yourself if you consider yourself so strong at it. ;] Funny enough this solves in 0.0003209. We have a real genius here FYI P(A+B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(AB) So he's kind of right.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:02:00 - [560] Originally by: MaggySmith Originally by: chrisss0r Originally by: Embarcadero And over time of activation of ECM modules the chance of getting a jam going will be nearly 100% 0.46 * 0.4 * 0.34 * 0.27 * 0.19 * 0.1 Do maths yourself if you consider yourself so strong at it. ;] Funny enough this solves in 0.0003209. We have a real genius here FYI P(A+B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(AB) So he's kind of right. Almost or kinda right still = wrong. A ship with a billion sig str will eventually get jammed given a infinite amount of time to jam it. Chance says it could be the first cycle or the 5 millionth but the fact that there's a chance is not in dispute.

MaggySmith	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:09:00 - [561] Originally by: lecrotta A ship with a billion sig str will eventually get jammed given a infinite amount of time to jam it. Chance says it could be the first cycle or the 5 millionth but the fact that there's a chance is not in dispute. I mean he's right about the sum chance. It really will be very close to 100%.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:18:00 - [562] Edited by: lecrotta on 30/01/2009 11:22:11 Originally by: MaggySmith Originally by: lecrotta A ship with a billion sig str will eventually get jammed given a infinite amount of time to jam it. Chance says it could be the first cycle or the 5 millionth but the fact that there's a chance is not in dispute. I mean he's right about the sum chance. It really will be very close to 100%. 5 of the correct and maxed out racial jammers fitted on a falcon when set on a carrier have a 67,232% chance of jamming it when you assume 20% chance per jammer. Not 5 x 14 = 70 jam str vs 70 sig str so yay jam 100%....it does not work like that.
MaggySmith	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:32:00 - [563] Originally by: lecrotta 5 of the correct and maxed out racial jammers fitted on a falcon when set on a carrier have a 67,232% chance of jamming it when you assume 20% chance per jammer. Not 5 x 14 = 70 jam str vs 70 sig str so yay jam 100%....it does not work like that. Not really... you seem to be missing one point. ECM modules doesn't get activated all at once. Each of them upon activation have a certain chance of jamming the carrier. I don't really know how stack penalization works for ECM but there is apparently one so when you activate 2nd ECM the result chance (for this try) will be (14+14)n/70, where is n is a penalization coefficient. Lets not get into those details... I will try to explain my point on a simple example (classic one) - flipping a coin. As we know the chance of getting heads is 1/2 on the first try. But on the second try the chance of getting heads out of those two tries is 1/2 + 1/2 - 1/21/2 = 2/3 or 0.75, or 75% Very same goes for Falcon trying to jam a carrier.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:34:00 - [564] Originally by: MaggySmith Originally by: lecrotta 5 of the correct and maxed out racial jammers fitted on a falcon when set on a carrier have a 67,232% chance of jamming it when you assume 20% chance per jammer. Not 5 x 14 = 70 jam str vs 70 sig str so yay jam 100%....it does not work like that. Not really... you seem to be missing one point. ECM modules doesn't get activated all at once. Each of them upon activation have a certain chance of jamming the carrier. Staggered jam activation was taken into account.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:08:00 - [565] Originally by: MaggySmith Originally by: lecrotta 5 of the correct and maxed out racial jammers fitted on a falcon when set on a carrier have a 67,232% chance of jamming it when you assume 20% chance per jammer. Not 5 x 14 = 70 jam str vs 70 sig str so yay jam 100%....it does not work like that. Not really... you seem to be missing one point. ECM modules doesn't get activated all at once. Each of them upon activation have a certain chance of jamming the carrier. I don't really know how stack penalization works for ECM but there is apparently one so when you activate 2nd ECM the result chance (for this try) will be (14+14)n/70, where is n is a penalization coefficient. Lets not get into those details... I will try to explain my point on a simple example (classic one) - flipping a coin. As we know the chance of getting heads is 1/2 on the first try. But on the second try the chance of getting heads out of those two tries is 1/2 + 1/2 - 1/21/2 = 2/3 or 0.75, or 75% Very same goes for Falcon trying to jam a carrier. what a bunch of idiots ... actualy GO READ THE F!!!!ING EW GUIDE !!!! ECM has NO module stacking penalty, that's taken care of by the chance mechanic it works with. each module chance to jam is independent, they do NOT ADD UP !!! oh yeah ... it was funny at the begining, but seeing how mentaly disabled people try to argue math and logic is starting to get annoying ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:15:00 - [566] Originally by: Hugh Ruka what a bunch of idiots ... actualy GO READ THE F!!!!ING EW GUIDE !!!! ECM has NO module stacking penalty, that's taken care of by the chance mechanic it works with. each module chance to jam is independent, they do NOT ADD UP !!! oh yeah ... it was funny at the begining, but seeing how mentaly disabled people try to argue math and logic is starting to get annoying ... YAY another of my alts.... And yea for some reason ppl think that if you slap a 14str jammer on a ship with 28str he only has 14str left for the next jammer to overcome...lol Originally by: Embarcadero So you don't know how ECM works? 1st ECM activation 14 str, 14/~140 = ~10% 2nd ECM activation (1st is still active) 28 str, 28/140% = ~20%
The Tzar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:23:00 - [567] Originally by: Embarcadero If you dont understand difference between 1/1000000 and 1/10... specially when those 1/10 is PER jammer. Falcon has 5. Now bring 4+ Falcons each fitted against 1 single race with racial jammers and voila - you have ~50% chance to jam any carrier fitted with ECCM and ~100% chance to jam carrier not fitted with ECCM. Go back to school and learn math before you come here to post your useless junk again. Sorry bud, you've just shot yourself in the foot here. Chance does not stack as you suggest. 5 attempts, each with a 10% chance of success DOES NOT equal 50% chance of jamming. It means 5 completely unrelated, seperate statistical events each with 10% success (or 90% chance of failure). If you fail the first of five jams, the next jam does not suddenly rise to a 20% chance of success does it? Just in the same way that if your fail the first 4 jams, the last jam doesn't suddenly have its strength increased..., no it is still just as improbable as the last four attempts and share that same 90% chance of failure. If it makes it easier think of it in terms of dice or flipping a coin. You can flip a coin (or a hundred seperate coins) a hundred time but the chance of getting a head doesn't get any bigger. Same with ECM, each cycle has EXACTLY the same chance of success or failure as the last one.
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:41:00 - [568] The amount of math fail in this thread is just breathtaking :X
Mithrass	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:51:00 - [569] Edited by: Mithrass on 30/01/2009 13:52:41 Originally by: MaggySmith Originally by: lecrotta I will try to explain my point on a simple example (classic one) - flipping a coin. As we know the chance of getting heads is 1/2 on the first try. But on the second try the chance of getting heads out of those two tries is 1/2 + 1/2 - 1/21/2 = 2/3 or 0.75*, or 75% welp.
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:56:00 - [570] Edited by: chrisss0r on 30/01/2009 13:56:16 yeah the genius is mixing up the probabilities of "getting heads on 2nd throw" and "having heads on both throws given the first throw was heads." These are 2 completely differenc statistical events and usually one should learn the difference in 7th grade. Adn if that Pile of stinking fail was not enough he then states that 2/3 is 0.75 while it actually is 0.6666666666aso



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