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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3423
   |
Posted - 2012.04.21 19:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Malcanis wrote:Also they're not overpowered you big sexyvoiced crybaby.
Let's imagine the following scenario:
80 Hellcats + 20 Guardians + 20 assorted support engage 120 Drakes + 30 Scimis + 20 assorted support
I won't ask who wins, because the Drakes are going to get their **** pushed in, I'll just ask for your estimate of how long it will take for the Drake FC to ask for a cyno for the supercaps? Have to admit I lack your recent experience with such a hypothetical encounter. ******* work and less eve time. I'm reduced to crying here on the forums.  However, talkabout sexy. 30 scimis looks pretty sexy to me. Can those drakes have ecm drones. I would think 20 ecm'd guardians won't hold up the baddons very long. But I suppose I should take your word for it as my recent experience is lacking. Regardless, the issue is not can Drakes be beat. It is where are the Harbinger and Myrm fleets? Why is there one tech I BC sitting among BSs and Tech III ships for comprising the backbone of a fleet? Why is a Drake the easiest and fastest entry to level 4s for characters starting out, while other races have to train BS? Why is the Drake a pve and pvp powerhouse while none of the others are?
Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed.
ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb
To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed.
Why should all battlecruisers be equally capable at all roles? No other ship class exhibits this kind of homogeneity unless maybe covops. Devoters are simply indisputably better fleet HICs than Phobos are, no contest, but that doesn't make the Phobos bad or the Devoter OP, because the Phobos is a way better gate camper. Myrms are bad at being fleet ships, but that doesn't make them bad ships, it just means they're not useful for the specific requirements of large fleets.
PS The Dominix is about as fast and easy an entry to level 4s as a Drake.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
AKilla Sunday
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.21 20:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shYbs2f-VgA
Skip to 0:18
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Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
407
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 21:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles.
Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank
I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore. |
Kalli Brixzat
9
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Posted - 2012.04.21 22:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Lili Lu wrote:Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles. Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore.
Drakes, like most other ships, are fitted significantly differently depending on what you are doing.
Story at 11. |
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
102
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 22:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank
I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore.
I'm still in love for the evoke guys who invented the PermaMWD drake.  |
Rara Yariza
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.04.21 23:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
Death Toll007 wrote:
Currently run a PbP setup with 80k ehp and 700dps.
-DT
link pls
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Lili Lu
203
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Posted - 2012.04.21 23:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed.
ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb
To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed.
And yet you are using Drakes the majority of the time.
Malcanis wrote: Why should all battlecruisers be equally capable at all roles? No other ship class exhibits this kind of homogeneity unless maybe covops. Devoters are simply indisputably better fleet HICs than Phobos are, no contest, but that doesn't make the Phobos bad or the Devoter OP, because the Phobos is a way better gate camper. Myrms are bad at being fleet ships, but that doesn't make them bad ships, it just means they're not useful for the specific requirements of large fleets.
Difference being you can't have a fleet of Devoters. Well you could but what would it do? Sure in specialized ship classes like dictors and hictors there exist qualitative differences and battle scenarios where one may be better than others. But they are not stepping up to slugging with a higher skiled ship class. BCs and BSs are fleet dps backbone ships.
What if there was a tech I cruiser that as a fleet could stand toe to toe with BC fleets? No problem according to your reasoning. It's just a Cruiser that is better than the others (ding ding) they can't all be equal. But it is not a mere inequality it is qualitative jump in ship class. Drakes do this and this is how they are different from a Sabre that is better than the others (which is not to say that imbalance shouldn't be addressed also).
Malcanis wrote: PS The Dominix is about as fast and easy an entry to level 4s as a Drake. No.
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Lili Lu
203
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Posted - 2012.04.21 23:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Lili Lu wrote:Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles. Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore.
Yes perma mwd-ing Canes perform just like those Drakes. And of course, if you want to be an anachronism you can tank fit your Canes with the same capabilities of tank Drakes. So, this is why I keep returning to the eve-kill top-20 statistics. It has been clearly displaying canes and drakes as equally used for the last few years. No problem, and that is why CCP hasn't finally said the Drake will be altered.
btw - the super amazing awesome tank is worthless because it's mainly used for pve. who needs that? |
Lord Dravius
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.04.22 10:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
Talok Ren wrote:I was looking to upgrade from my Cormorant to start doing some lvl 2 missions and was told that the Drake would be a good ship to get, so I trained all the necessary skills, found a seemingly decent loadout and started saving the ISK for it. Then I started seeing a lot of players hating on it and making general fun of others who pilot them with no real reason given. Can anyone inform me as to why this is, or Is this more of a PVP/balance issue?
I am really wanting a decent missile boat, is there a better ship for level 2 missions or should I just dismiss the negativity towards the ship since I'm mainly doing PVE missions?
If you're in a Drake you should be doing lv3. The reason people don't like it is because it's overpowered, not because it sucks. You don't have any reason to switch out of it. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
408
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Posted - 2012.04.22 11:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:
Yes perma mwd-ing Canes perform just like those Drakes.
We don't use perma-MWDing Drakes. I have no idea why that particular fit is even popular, it's dumb as hell.
Quote:And of course, if you want to be an anachronism you can tank fit your Canes with the same capabilities of tank Drakes.
You can actually fit them to be better in the current meta, it's just no one does. I don't know why, but I suspect it's the same reason people think that perma-MWDing Drakes are a legit fleet comp.
Quote:So, this is why I keep returning to the eve-kill top-20 statistics. It has been clearly displaying canes and drakes as equally used for the last few years. No problem, and that is why CCP hasn't finally said the Drake will be altered.
Considering the proposed changed was a massive buff to the Drake, I'm not sure you're going to be pleased with the outcome. Especially when solo and small gang sub-BS becomes Drakes n' Talos Online. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3432
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 13:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Malcanis wrote: Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed.
ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb
To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed. And yet you are using Drakes the majority of the time.
No we aren't. Last night we formed up in armour fleet. The night before that it was sniper tier 3s, the fleet before that was bombers.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Orlacc
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
121
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Posted - 2012.04.22 15:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what? |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 15:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what?
drake is the justin bieber of spaceships |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
553
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 15:43:00 -
[74] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:
drake is the justin bieber of spaceships
Truth.
No sane person with a pair likes it, but it's still popular.
~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2012.04.22 15:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:We don't use perma-MWDing Drakes. I have no idea why that particular fit is even popular, it's dumb as hell.
The fact that Abaddon pilot can't hit it with arties doesn't make this fit "dumb as hell". |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
265
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Posted - 2012.04.22 18:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
I had a Drake on an alt account for added fire support to blitz missions when I was still learning the game. I grew bored with it though because all you did was orbit and hit F1 all of the time.
I have just bought one again (partly because of the proposed change to BC skills I can fly them on this toon), but to be honest it is just to see all the cool upcoming missile effects in the next patch. It really is a versatile ship if you want to tinker with it, including secondary support roles. Below however is just how, un-serious, I am taking my ownership of the one I own:
[Drake, Need better missile skills]
[Cap stable because it is only flown when drunk]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Medium Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
[empty high slot]
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
I don't always finish my commentary, but when I do |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3437
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 18:39:00 -
[77] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what?
I'm too cool to like popular things
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 18:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Orlacc wrote:Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what? I'm too cool to like popular things
Its cool to hate popular things. Look at WoW
If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next?
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 19:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next?
No, CCP buffs Drake. They have already plans for Tengu. Currently Tengu is better than Caldari T2 cruisers. It shouldn't be that way. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 19:25:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:Malcanis wrote:Orlacc wrote:Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what? I'm too cool to like popular things Its cool to hate popular things. Look at WoW If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next?
coming from a guy with upwards of 10k hours played, you should hate wow not because it's popular but because it sucks. big time. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
410
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 03:27:00 -
[81] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:The fact that Abaddon pilot can't hit it with arties doesn't make this fit "dumb as hell".
Arties hit MWDing Drakes perfectly fine.
It doesn't have the EHP of a brick Drake, it sacrifices the utility of the standard PDU Drake and under TQ conditions a nano-Drake outruns it forever. |
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 07:29:00 -
[82] - Quote
the drake is easy to use, logi friendly, low sp requirement, hard to screw up, good in fleets (the counterpart of the hurricane), shines with high SP (which allow other fittings that curb stomp everything stupid enough to get in range, just like the hurricane), and its cheap, and easily replaceable |
Raptors Mole
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
1
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Posted - 2012.04.23 09:52:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ref: The alleged proposed changes to the Drake;
Make the drake faster and drop its tank for more DPS?
Make the Harbi faster? (God knows it needs something)
Reduce Myrms drone bandwidth for more speed and up turret DPS?
Leave Cane alone?
Yay! We can all fly the Dra-Cane-Myrmi-Harb. We can all be the same.
Well Done CCP - now thats what I call balancing!
The Drake is what it is - Caldari thru and thru. It ain't broke/overpowered. It doesn't need a major makeover.
On the other hand, is a spider AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaargh!
Raptors |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 10:03:00 -
[84] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Arties hit MWDing Drakes perfectly fine.
If Drake is flying directly towards you or away from you. Or it's afk and has velocity of 0m/s, it does help. |
Dheeradj Nurgle
Misfit Syndicate
Warden.
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 11:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:
The Drake is a superb Level 2 and 3 mission boat. Probably nothing better out there for that purpose.
As much as I love the Drake, I disagree, With proper skills the Brutix has a better tank, and can do a lot more damage. The same is true for the Dominix vs Raven. The Dominix can have a larger tank, with more DPS from drones alone.
The drake is a lot more mobile, while the Galante droneboats just sit there, laughing when they take a shot head on.
Quote:Long and short of it: fly the Drake and don't give a damn what other people think.
Agreed 100%, and it applies to every ship you want to fly. It's how you fly your ship, not how others see it. |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
59
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 13:12:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:The fact that Abaddon pilot can't hit it with arties doesn't make this fit "dumb as hell". Arties hit MWDing Drakes perfectly fine.
I saw this first hand myself yesterday. My alt's Drake made it home safe and sound, but several did not.
|
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
59
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 13:16:00 -
[87] - Quote
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:
The Drake is a superb Level 2 and 3 mission boat. Probably nothing better out there for that purpose.
As much as I love the Drake, I disagree, With proper skills the Brutix has a better tank, and can do a lot more damage. The same is true for the Dominix vs Raven. The Dominix can have a larger tank, with more DPS from drones alone. The drake is a lot more mobile, while the Galante droneboats just sit there, laughing when they take a shot head on.
If a player has proper skills, he probably shouldn't be wasting them in Level 2 or Level 3 missions (unless he is blitzing them to open up Level 4 standings). The fact that a low SP player can do well in a Drake is precisely the thing that makes it attractive in those low level missions.
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Tobiaz
Spacerats
316
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 17:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
Drakes take a long time to die, and 'real' PvP-ers don't like it when things take a long time to die.
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt
Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 20:30:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:Drakes take a long time to die, and 'real' PvP-ers don't like it when things take a long time to die.
lot of ftruth to that lol.
Flew and flown agaisnt drakes. Tank is its main feature imo. And why its not liked. Takes a while to kill. Fleet level makes it unliked as you actually have to primary them to drop em fast. And it can be done, I have been 3 shotted, well the volleys hit so I saw 3 massive dips in tank to be more accurate, by a good pirmary call out....km list of shooters read like the same ones I got in bs' lol.
Skirmish style its not liked, imo, becasue if you don't bring the proper dps it basically goes on and on till the other guy gridns the tank down or gets bored and burns out to break point and gtfo since he knows he's jsut burning ammo on a semi-lost cause lol.
If proposed drake change go through, be interesting to see how this "nerfs" the drake . Part of me is thinking the ROF will still make this ship hated. Just hated for more gank instead of tank. While not the same as winmatar ac round spewing its still better than what she has now. Fleet or skirmish....this should be an actual improvement. Worth the lost tank imo.
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Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 22:20:00 -
[90] - Quote
The reason I hate drakes is that our FCs make us fly them for so many hours.
In large scale fleet engagements, for subcaps it's only drakes, maelstroms, bombers and sniper t3s that are effective. The rest just gets volleyed of the field. |
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