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Why does everyone hate the Drake?

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Talok Ren State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.04.20 01:28:00 - [1] - Quote I was looking to upgrade from my Cormorant to start doing some lvl 2 missions and was told that the Drake would be a good ship to get, so I trained all the necessary skills, found a seemingly decent loadout and started saving the ISK for it. Then I started seeing a lot of players hating on it and making general fun of others who pilot them with no real reason given. Can anyone inform me as to why this is, or Is this more of a PVP/balance issue? I am really wanting a decent missile boat, is there a better ship for level 2 missions or should I just dismiss the negativity towards the ship since I'm mainly doing PVE missions?
Flash Morden Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.04.20 01:52:00 - [2] - Quote There's nothing wrong with the Drake. It's functional with low SP count, which makes it popular among younger players. It is a bit boring, that's why people give it a bad rap. This sums Caldari up nicely and to make matters worse the drake has even less buttons.
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 48	Posted - 2012.04.20 01:53:00 - [3] - Quote Haters gonna hate. The Drake is a superb Level 2 and 3 mission boat. Probably nothing better out there for that purpose. There is a lot of Drake hate because traditionally it was a ship that was so awesome in PvE and terrible in PvP. Idiots would try to PvP in their uber-passive tank Drake with no prop mod, no BCUs, and T1 guns and get whelped. Now, everyone and their dog flies a Drake for PvP, which engenders another kind of hatred for it from those who still see it as a low-SP FOTM meatshield ship. Long and short of it: fly the Drake and don't give a damn what other people think.
Arazel Chainfire Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 93	Posted - 2012.04.20 01:56:00 - [4] - Quote the negativity towards the drake mostly lies mostly in the area of PvP. Of course, before the tengu came out, there was also a good bit on the PvE side, but now that they can complain about the tengu you shouldn't have to worry too much about the drake. As long as you understand that you really should upgrade from it (eventually). Also, since everyone flies them, obviously they're OP ::sarcasm:: A drake is good for up to lvl 3 missions (though it is possible to slowly do 4's with them), and up to class 2 WH's. It can also work for ratting/anoms in lowsec/nullsec, and in groups in higher lvl WH's and missions, though it won't really work for incursions. For lvl 2's you might be better off in an assault missile caracel, because of the speed warping/getting to gates, but since one leads right into the other that isn't that big an issue. Once you start looking at PvP, you start seeing why lots of people hate on it - its a brick that can do mediocre dps at mediocre ranges and can't really do too much utility. Also, the drake has a reputation as a giant brick because of PvEr's taking their PvE drake with full passive tank out and PvPing with it - they aren't very effective at actually killing things, like that, but are a real PITA to take out. Now, fit properly, a PvP drake is pretty decent, though it will never get the DPS of something like a gank brutix. But because they are rarely ever primaried, you can rely on that dps being there for most of the fight. -Arazel
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 1556	Posted - 2012.04.20 01:57:00 - [5] - Quote The Drake is pimp. I like it. Then again, I like most everything these days. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Kalel Nimrott Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail 4	Posted - 2012.04.20 01:59:00 - [6] - Quote Spider tanking drakes for C3 Sites. Even tanked a cloaky Protus with it, he couldn`t break my tanking, I couldn`t break his, so we part as friends. lovely story, specially the protus part
Kalli Brixzat 9	Posted - 2012.04.20 02:03:00 - [7] - Quote The "brick" Drake was a great ship. Boring as all hell to fly, but very effective for what it is. It's capable of steamrolling any L3 out there, and with some support skills up, you can solo all but a few L4's.
Fredfredbug4 Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control 211	Posted - 2012.04.20 02:06:00 - [8] - Quote I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is: "If it works, it's overpowered."
Talok Ren State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.04.20 02:09:00 - [9] - Quote Ok, thanks for the info, I'll stick with the Drake for now since I'll only be doing missions for the time being. Cheers =)
Silas Shaw Coffee Hub 16	Posted - 2012.04.20 04:02:00 - [10] - Quote Ive got some drakes. I carebear in them. I hate them with every fiber of my being, but ill use them. + Theyre simple to fly, take tons of punishment, and have good damage projection. - If you use it too much, your brain atrophies. I kid you not.
loki energon Voodoo Children Workers Trade Federation 1	Posted - 2012.04.20 04:29:00 - [11] - Quote i loved my drake so much i bought three of them. a pimped out T2, faction modded death machine thatll solo most L4 missions. a dps heavy HAM drake for pvp, and a regular T2 fitted WH ship. let em hate. the drake is a great all around bruiser, well fit, it can make alot of ISK in short time. most of the money i spend on cool toys and new fits, i earned on the bridge of my trusty drake. dont get me wrong, i utilze other ships for other things, but for sheer earning prowess, my drake wins hands down. kill em all.
Marcus Ichiro Rust Corp 8	Posted - 2012.04.20 04:44:00 - [12] - Quote loki energon wrote: a pimped out T2, faction modded death machine thatll solo most L4 missions Sorry but you're just begging to get ganked if you're regularly using it for L4's. You could fit a Raven for probably the same cost and do L4's twice as fast.
Death Toll007 Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies. 38	Posted - 2012.04.20 04:48:00 - [13] - Quote PVP Drake will rock even more!!! Based on the latest proposed changes for the drake people will hate it even more. What I have read: 1. Reduced Sig Radius (unsure of the details) 2. Increased base speed (unsure of the details) 3. Reduced resists (no more +5% per level losing 20k EHP) 4. Higher DPS (Increased rate of fire means more DPS) Essentially I trade 20k EHP for 30% increase in DPS, reduced sig radius, and increase the speed. For PvP she's going to make a lot of people cry. Those without the skills will whine for their losses, those facing off against those with the skills will whine for their losses, and all the while forum rants of OP!!!! OP!!!! OP!!!! will be prevalent. I look forward to all the sustinance... er... tears. Currently run a PbP setup with 80k ehp and 700dps. With this new change will be 60K ehp, and 930dps... sure I'm flimsier, but imagine the drake fleets now... 30 man fleet of drakes hits as if it is 40, and dies like it was 23, love the trade!!!! PvE downside: No more uber tank :( -DT
Boomhaur 11	Posted - 2012.04.20 05:04:00 - [14] - Quote Drake is an effective ship it can do ANY lv4 mission, I know because I have done it in the past. And not so distant past when I accidently popped my nighthawk and had to resort to my backup drake which was collecting dust for quite a few years. With the right skills (max missiles skills in my case) it can do lv4 missions with a pretty decent speed if you know what your doing, though with only ok skills it's severely lacking while doing lv4 missions. For lv3 missions there is nothing better, that a newer character can relistically use. Most of the hatred comes from cookie cutter ship designs newer players use and how it has a carebear association image since it's ease of use. But with the right skills it can be quite deadly, but it takes awhile for it to truely shine that way in my opinion.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 25	Posted - 2012.04.20 06:08:00 - [15] - Quote Fredfredbug4 wrote: I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is: "If it works, it's overpowered." Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar.
Hrett Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords 55	Posted - 2012.04.20 06:09:00 - [16] - Quote Death Toll007 wrote: PVP Drake will rock even more!!! Based on the latest proposed changes for the drake people will hate it even more. What I have read: 1. Reduced Sig Radius (unsure of the details) 2. Increased base speed (unsure of the details) 3. Reduced resists (no more +5% per level losing 20k EHP) 4. Higher DPS (Increased rate of fire means more DPS) Essentially I trade 20k EHP for 30% increase in DPS, reduced sig radius, and increase the speed. For PvP she's going to make a lot of people cry. Those without the skills will whine for their losses, those facing off against those with the skills will whine for their losses, and all the while forum rants of OP!!!! OP!!!! OP!!!! will be prevalent. I look forward to all the sustinance... er... tears. Currently run a PbP setup with 80k ehp and 700dps. With this new change will be 60K ehp, and 930dps... sure I'm flimsier, but imagine the drake fleets now... 30 man fleet of drakes hits as if it is 40, and dies like it was 23, love the trade!!!! PvE downside: No more uber tank :( -DT This man speaks the truth. If those changes go live, it will then be 'nerfed' to have the same tank as all of the other BCs (boo hoo), and have way more DPS. It's going to be horridly overpowered. People hate the Drake because it is too good at everything. Excellent at PvE, solo PVP, and Fleet PVP. It has roughly TWICE as many PvP kills as the next closest ship (the cane) every month. (And people can say what they want, but that is absolute proof that it is unbalanced - people don't over-use something because it is gimped). There will always be ships that are better at some things, and not others. The Drake is not one of those - it is good at everything. It needs a good old fashioned nerfing. All that being said - as a new player you should absolutely fly it - especially for PvE.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School 173	Posted - 2012.04.20 06:10:00 - [17] - Quote They've been mishandled by thousands of previous users, it tends to leave a stench on the reputation of the Drake.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 428	Posted - 2012.04.20 06:14:00 - [18] - Quote Arazel Chainfire wrote: Once you start looking at PvP, you start seeing why lots of people hate on it - its a brick that can do mediocre dps at mediocre ranges and can't really do too much utility. Also, the drake has a reputation as a giant brick because of PvEr's taking their PvE drake with full passive tank out and PvPing with it - they aren't very effective at actually killing things, like that, but are a real PITA to take out. Now, fit properly, a PvP drake is pretty decent, though it will never get the DPS of something like a gank brutix. But because they are rarely ever primaried, you can rely on that dps being there for most of the fight. Yep, which is why people LOVE it when they meet fleet after fleet of just drakes ! They're cheap and expendable too. Add 30ish logistics ships to 200 drakes, command ships, random blackbirds and rifters or whatever and bang, it's a party Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 25	Posted - 2012.04.20 06:29:00 - [19] - Quote Hrett wrote: and have way more DPS While I want to see Drake with more DPS, range is a bit unfair compared to HurriCane/Harbinger. While TDs don't have any effect on missiles one Curse can pretty much disable one HurriCane/Harbinger completely. Drakes eat Curses for breakfast.
AstarothPrime Eternal Profiteers Persona Non Gratis 9	Posted - 2012.04.20 06:57:00 - [20] - Quote Its because: 1) almost all new players fly exclusively drake for one year, till they train up for something bigger 2) Passive no brain tank and little to no DPS in non kinetic type = dull and boring 3) missiles are annoying in PVP because you ALLWAYS have a feeling you aint shooting the primary due to missile flight time 4) Every proper FOTM cynabal and vagabond outrun your heavy missiles on semilong distance (40-50km) making gatefights dull and boring, you cant "surprise" anything I jump into a drake only because its ubercheap PvP vessel and it has 101 way to fit it for various missions... I.
AstarothPrime Eternal Profiteers Persona Non Gratis 9	Posted - 2012.04.20 07:03:00 - [21] - Quote Death Toll007 wrote: PVP Drake will rock even more!!! Based on the latest proposed changes for the drake people will hate it even more. What I have read: 1. Reduced Sig Radius (unsure of the details) 2. Increased base speed (unsure of the details) 3. Reduced resists (no more +5% per level losing 20k EHP) 4. Higher DPS (Increased rate of fire means more DPS) ... PvE downside: No more uber tank :( -DT TBH i think drake ruins much fun in this game as it is now. The possibility to outfit 3x LSE, 3x Invul, 3x purger, 4x shield power relay brick drake and fly it anywhere without issues due to 1000 DPS+ passive tank is just idiotic IMO... you try everything there is in this game that way and have nothing to look forward in future skilling. Removing that tank and helping gank a little will mean that you actually have ship AFTER drake to hop into... I.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 267	Posted - 2012.04.20 07:54:00 - [22] - Quote People used to hate the Drake because back in 2007 it was generally thought that it was a PVE-only carebearmobile that could do nothing in PVP but die slowly. Later, when they discovered that it was a very good solo/small-gang BC, they got even angrier. When the 100-man Drake blobs started appearing, they were seething. Anyway, if the Drake is overpowered then so is the Hurricane. Nerf all t2 BCs.
jagholas kiri Sons of Retribution Malice Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.04.20 07:55:00 - [23] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Fredfredbug4 wrote: I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is: "If it works, it's overpowered." Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar. Gallente are OP now... Not winmatar.
Kale Eledar Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji 29	Posted - 2012.04.20 15:22:00 - [24] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: The Drake is pimp. I like it. Then again, I like most everything these days. -Liang Motion for a "Liang Inspected and Approved" label on ships for all the newbs to learn to violence in ED: Not that experimentation shouldn't be encouraged The Irukandji is recruiting PVP pilots! APPLY NAO. You won't regret it. See our info at : -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70811&find=unread
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1138	Posted - 2012.04.20 17:11:00 - [25] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Fredfredbug4 wrote: I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is: "If it works, it's overpowered." Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar. My Cane's Republic Fleet Phased Plasma would like to have a word with you Actually if changes are those mentioned I'll fly it even more than now, the +rof and missile speed will make Heavy Assault Missiles very effective but seems missiles are getting some attention for escalation so I'm inclined to think nex drake version will be an excellent gank machine (700dps shouldn't be difficult to fit) with still huge tank (can easily keep 70k EHP)
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1138	Posted - 2012.04.20 17:22:00 - [26] - Quote jagholas kiri wrote: Jorma Morkkis wrote: Fredfredbug4 wrote: I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is: "If it works, it's overpowered." Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar. Gallente are OP now... Not winmatar. You should stop playing with your society of alts at gates and join some good gangs to figure out it's not even close to be OP for everything else than Gate and station camps, the hybrids rebalance IS a FAKE. Should Gallente Navy install hundreds more gates and stay at station undocks in each system to at least try to keep their frontiers. It's a very poor game play style in a game where with 3 buttons you can do everything, hell you have to openn windows for nothing just to have the feeling you're using skills Gallente were good at ganking on belts, gate camps and station undcks, they got a huge dps/range buff so they can be even better at gank gate and station camping because they're horrible at everything else, just like before the supposed rebalance. If you play everything else than solo and (very) small gang and away from high sec and low sec station undocks/gates you have no interest on flying those. Indeed Gallente are really op ...
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 57	Posted - 2012.04.20 17:58:00 - [27] - Quote - cost effective - low SP - easy to fly - easy to tank - can solo lvl4s and C3 anoms (!!!) - looks fuckin' badass how can you not hate that?
Lyron-Baktos Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle 116	Posted - 2012.04.20 18:30:00 - [28] - Quote one reason is because it's so popular. everywhere you go, you see them being flown. that's why I don't want to fly it or the hurricane. sheep followers On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 1562	Posted - 2012.04.20 20:02:00 - [29] - Quote Lyron-Baktos wrote: one reason is because it's so popular. everywhere you go, you see them being flown. that's why I don't want to fly it or the hurricane. sheep followers Be a rebel. Fly the Bellicose. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Buzzmong Aliastra Gallente Federation 193	Posted - 2012.04.20 20:07:00 - [30] - Quote Easy, it's because Drakes aren't blimps, and blimps are pretty pimp.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 429	Posted - 2012.04.20 20:33:00 - [31] - Quote Lyron-Baktos wrote: one reason is because it's so popular. everywhere you go, you see them being flown. that's why I don't want to fly it or the hurricane. sheep followers drakefleet, welpfleet, instacanes such a lot of fun from just two battlecruiser hulls, and then there's the Tornado ~ Gypsio III wrote: When the 100-man Drake blobs started appearing, they were seething. Sounds amazing, did it have to do with ~ blobbing ~ by any chance? Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 1562	Posted - 2012.04.20 20:44:00 - [32] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Gypsio III wrote: When the 100-man Drake blobs started appearing, they were seething. Sounds amazing, did it have to do with ~ blobbing ~ by any chance? Not really - there was lots of rage over carebearmobiles being worthwhile in PVP. It was kinda funny really. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Lost Greybeard Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution 30	Posted - 2012.04.20 21:09:00 - [33] - Quote Wait, "hate" as in people thinking it's too good, or people thinking it's not good enough? Because I've heard both about more than half of the ships in the game.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3420	Posted - 2012.04.20 21:36:00 - [34] - Quote AstarothPrime wrote: Death Toll007 wrote: PVP Drake will rock even more!!! Based on the latest proposed changes for the drake people will hate it even more. What I have read: 1. Reduced Sig Radius (unsure of the details) 2. Increased base speed (unsure of the details) 3. Reduced resists (no more +5% per level losing 20k EHP) 4. Higher DPS (Increased rate of fire means more DPS) ... PvE downside: No more uber tank :( -DT TBH i think drake ruins much fun in this game as it is now. The possibility to outfit 3x LSE, 3x Invul, 3x purger, 4x shield power relay brick drake and fly it anywhere without issues due to 1000 DPS+ passive tank is just idiotic IMO... you try everything there is in this game that way and have nothing to look forward in future skilling. Removing that tank and helping gank a little will mean that you actually have ship AFTER drake to hop into... I. Fly it anywhere without issues... right up until you meet a hostile with a friend, then you're a slow, dead turtle. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3420	Posted - 2012.04.20 21:37:00 - [35] - Quote Lost Greybeard wrote: Wait, "hate" as in people thinking it's too good, or people thinking it's not good enough? Because I've heard both about more than half of the ships in the game. It's just stupid snobbery. If the ship is a good tool for what you need to do, then use it. Who cares if it's also good for noobs doing level 3s? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Drew Solaert University of Caille Gallente Federation 128	Posted - 2012.04.20 22:13:00 - [36] - Quote Let me tell you a story. Once apon a time there was a Gallente pilot who loved rails. Lets call him ummm "Werd" Werd was your standard Gallente gunboat loving stud, cutting his teeth on the Thorax and then the Brutix he learnt all kinds of neat skills to get the most out of his ships and weapons, worrying about transversal, ranges trying to balance the incoming damage by careful selecting of targets and actively managing his tank. Soon he was shooting down crusiers at 4km in his 425mm Megathron with no tracking mods, thanks to his piloting knowledge. But one day something bad happened. Werd met a shifty Caldari who told him all about this ship called the Drake. Werd knew he shouldn't, he had been taught the dangers of Drake use but he did it anyway. A week later he was found, drooling, orbiting a cargo can barely able to speak just mashing the big shiny red button that fired the missiles at whatever the hell it was he had managed to target. People stop and stare but Werd doesn't notice he just licks the windows inside stations. For every player ship that blows up, the wheels of the economy turn slightly faster. -áDo your bit today. -áGo out and PEW.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 1563	Posted - 2012.04.20 22:43:00 - [37] - Quote Drew Solaert wrote: Let me tell you a story. Once apon a time there was a Gallente pilot who loved rails. Lets call him ummm "Werd" Werd was your standard Gallente gunboat loving stud, cutting his teeth on the Thorax and then the Brutix he learnt all kinds of neat skills to get the most out of his ships and weapons, worrying about transversal, ranges trying to balance the incoming damage by careful selecting of targets and actively managing his tank. Soon he was shooting down crusiers at 4km in his 425mm Megathron with no tracking mods, thanks to his piloting knowledge. But one day something bad happened. Werd met a shifty Caldari who told him all about this ship called the Drake. Werd knew he shouldn't, he had been taught the dangers of Drake use but he did it anyway. A week later he was found, drooling, orbiting a cargo can barely able to speak just mashing the big shiny red button that fired the missiles at whatever the hell it was he had managed to target. People stop and stare but Werd doesn't notice he just licks the windows inside stations. The Drake is my go-to ship when I'm window licking drunk. There is a good reason for this. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Fredfredbug4 Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control 215	Posted - 2012.04.20 22:45:00 - [38] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Fredfredbug4 wrote: I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is: "If it works, it's overpowered." Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar. The reason why the Drake is getting buffed is because people want to see just how great the ship can get before becoming borderline overpowered. That's how ship balance should work anyway. Balance will be achieved when every ship is as best as it could possibly be and a buff of any kind would make it overpowered. Minmatar is getting nerfed a bit because even up to this point, they are still MUCH more effective at PVP than any other faction. Caldari- Only a handful of good PVP ships. However this is made up for by the fact they are some of the best ships in the game. Gallente- Plenty of viable PVP options, they are at the perfect level. Amarr- Lots of PVP ships though a good chunk of them are sub-par compared to similar ships of other races. Minmatar- Lots of PVP ships, all of them are good.
Lili Lu 202	Posted - 2012.04.20 22:48:00 - [39] - Quote I'm going to break up this thread of "what's the problem dude?" Speaking as a vocal drake hater (and user but not on this character ) it is because it is out of balance with other ships in it's class and a class above it. Evidence: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Look at the ships used on kills. Drake 273k, next ship Maelstrom 92k. That is a 3 to 1 ratio between the top ship and the 2nd most used ship. This ridiculous ratio has been there about every month for the last 2 or 3 years. Why not field a full fleet of 40-50mil (or whatever the mineral inflated ship and mod price is these days) 2LSE buffer Drakes with a BS sized tank that can still dish about 350 or so dps at 70km and stand a decent chance to kill a similar sized AHAC or Geddon or whatever other BS fleet the opposing fleet has while they are committing well over 100mil per ship. You can't do this with a fleet of Harbingers, Myrms, or Canes. They do not have a BS sized buffer or in the case of the Myrm that does the dps is even less stellar and is destructible or locks you in one place (sentries). Combine the BS sized shield buffer and the fact that shield transfer is instantaneous and you get another advantage over plated BSs. Then also try some other variants like perma-MWD Drakes and bombers have trouble hitting them. Also, megapulse geddons or 800mm AC fit ships will struggle a lot to apply damage at 70km. So those ships get kited. Basically the problem with the Drake in pvp is that it is punching above it's weight. No other race of ships has such a BC. Sure there are cane fleets but they lack the tank and rely on a numbers advantage to get in close and apply neuts to big targets. Or they are used in small gang engagements again for their high but short range ac dps and neuting or longer range but much less dps arty alpha. In pve, which has been the longer recognized problem the tank and damage projection again outclass other BCs. Add to it the ability to passive or fully passive shield tank (or mixed passive buffer shield transfer) the Drake and still do just enough dps to get the job done and sleeper neuts become less of an issue. Again no other racial BC can do this, Myrm can sport the tank but sleepers kill drones. Drake tanks in general can be configured to outlast and outshine any BS tank except for a Rattler (but of course that is passive shield as well) or a Hyperion for the few minutes that cap charges last. This is why the Drake gets hate from players like myself that don't want Drake/Tengu Online to continue and why it will get an adjustment. CCP finally after the evidence has been there for a very long time conceded that the ship is out of balance. Don't worry though only non-Caldari ships get nerfed into the stone age. It took no time at all for the Myrm to get dropped from 125 bandwidth to 75. Damps and damp ships were nerfed into the stone age after one alliance tournament of heavy damp use. Meanwhile we've had multiple years of heavy ecm boat and drake use in alliance tournaments with not reaction so far. ECM got nerfed but the specialized boats got an immediate rebuff (30% per level bonuses ). So of course ecm boats still are go to in alliance tournaments and small gang pvp. So anyway don't fret it if you love your cake and eat it too easy mode Drake. You won't get nerfed into futility. It will probably be a good ship still. This appears to be the result of many years of Caldari dominanace in character population and ship use. CCP won't give you the same treatment it has given at times to other races and ship types.
Plus 1 Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 70	Posted - 2012.04.20 22:58:00 - [40] - Quote People hate the Drake because it gets engaged, receives a bunch of gifts, then breaks up and donates the gifts to charity. The Drake is a selfish bastard.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 407	Posted - 2012.04.21 01:56:00 - [41] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Evidence: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Look at the ships used on kills. Drake 273k, next ship Maelstrom 92k. That is a 3 to 1 ratio between the top ship and the 2nd most used ship. This ridiculous ratio has been there about every month for the last 2 or 3 years. This is a pet peeve of mine: it is the highest because the CFC uses them extensively. The Maelstrom is #2 because the CFC uses them less than Drakes. If the CFC decided tomorrow to fly Laser Feroxes, they'd fly right up the EVE-Kill Top 20 rankings in short order.
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 425	Posted - 2012.04.21 02:56:00 - [42] - Quote people hate drakes because of DRAEK. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Lili Lu 202	Posted - 2012.04.21 03:04:00 - [43] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Lili Lu wrote: Evidence: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Look at the ships used on kills. Drake 273k, next ship Maelstrom 92k. That is a 3 to 1 ratio between the top ship and the 2nd most used ship. This ridiculous ratio has been there about every month for the last 2 or 3 years. This is a pet peeve of mine: it is the highest because the CFC uses them extensively. The Maelstrom is #2 because the CFC uses them less than Drakes. If the CFC decided tomorrow to fly Laser Feroxes, they'd fly right up the EVE-Kill Top 20 rankings in short order. No, it's not just the CFC use of Drakes. This pattern has been steady for years now, maybe not as pronbounced as 3 to 1 but drakes have remained top used over that time. It's not just the recent CFC adoption of the drake over Maels as their main BS. Evoke uses drakes. -A-/Stainwagon used drakes. ****, you guys are straying from the Moonin and using drakes and tengus now aren't you? Everyone has used drakes heavily.
Kalli Brixzat 9	Posted - 2012.04.21 05:01:00 - [44] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Lili Lu wrote: Evidence: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Look at the ships used on kills. Drake 273k, next ship Maelstrom 92k. That is a 3 to 1 ratio between the top ship and the 2nd most used ship. This ridiculous ratio has been there about every month for the last 2 or 3 years. This is a pet peeve of mine: it is the highest because the CFC uses them extensively. The Maelstrom is #2 because the CFC uses them less than Drakes. If the CFC decided tomorrow to fly Laser Feroxes, they'd fly right up the EVE-Kill Top 20 rankings in short order. I'm sure that plays into it, but it's not THE reason. The real reason is because the Drake is probably the best bang for the buck in the game. Best combination of firepower, survivability and versatility for the cost. It is that by a country mile. Corp FC's like Drakes because the cost of loss is low with solid performance.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 407	Posted - 2012.04.21 06:49:00 - [45] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: No, it's not just the CFC use of Drakes. This pattern has been steady for years now, maybe not as pronbounced as 3 to 1 but drakes have remained top used over that time. When the CFC used only Maelstroms, Maelstroms were #1, with Abaddons (flown by their enemy) being #2 and once they adopted Welpcanes, Canes flipped between the 2 and 3 spots. Quote: It's not just the recent CFC adoption of the drake over Maels as their main BS. Evoke uses drakes. -A-/Stainwagon used drakes. And lost to actual BS. Repeatedly. Pointedly. For months on end. Like every other battlecruiser in the game. Quote: ****, you guys are straying from the Moonin and using drakes and tengus now aren't you? Everyone has used drakes heavily. Drake week happens every once in awhile in BL, has been that way since before I joined a year ago. We do it because it's a better learning platform than a Muninn for gang pvp. Meanwhile Tengus are a hard-counter (appropriately employed) against Alphafleet that we've been fighting.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.21 08:02:00 - [46] - Quote Draek will be way overpowered after buff. It can do already: - tank Concord - tank sieged dread - it survives one DD
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 57	Posted - 2012.04.21 08:22:00 - [47] - Quote Best in BC vs BC 1v1 Kiting, sig tanking, neuting doesn't counter Drake well Punches above its weight in large groups for fleets Punches above its weight in PVE Relatively cheap as chips in replacement cost after insurance These 5 factors combined make Drake a bit too good. Just wait for it to get nerfed before the Hurricane OP cries start emerging. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Alice Saki Analog Folk SRS. 86	Posted - 2012.04.21 08:34:00 - [48] - Quote I like to Solo in this Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Invul II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Small EMP Smart Bomb II Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I 5x Warrior II Or 5x ECM Webs are not for tackle. they are for GTFO. Smart Bomb for Drones. http://tinyurl.com/RifterDeath My Rifter Adventure in Null
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3422	Posted - 2012.04.21 13:29:00 - [49] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Mfume Apocal wrote: Lili Lu wrote: Evidence: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Look at the ships used on kills. Drake 273k, next ship Maelstrom 92k. That is a 3 to 1 ratio between the top ship and the 2nd most used ship. This ridiculous ratio has been there about every month for the last 2 or 3 years. This is a pet peeve of mine: it is the highest because the CFC uses them extensively. The Maelstrom is #2 because the CFC uses them less than Drakes. If the CFC decided tomorrow to fly Laser Feroxes, they'd fly right up the EVE-Kill Top 20 rankings in short order. No, it's not just the CFC use of Drakes. This pattern has been steady for years now, maybe not as pronbounced as 3 to 1 but drakes have remained top used over that time. It's not just the recent CFC adoption of the drake over Maels as their main BS. Evoke uses drakes. -A-/Stainwagon used drakes. ***, you guys are straying from the Moonin and using drakes and tengus now aren't you? Everyone has used drakes heavily. However Drakes are much less heavily used than when they were the de facto* fleet ship in the horrible post-Dominion lag days. There are plenty of viable non-Drake fleet options - probably more now than ever - but Drakes will continue to be popular for as long as they're cheap, easy to skill for and easy to fly. It's not like there are no viable counters to a Drake fleet either; Hellcats, alphafleet and sniper tier 3s all spring to mind. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Lili Lu 202	Posted - 2012.04.21 14:18:00 - [50] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: When the CFC used only Maelstroms, Maelstroms were #1, with Abaddons (flown by their enemy) being #2 and once they adopted Welpcanes, Canes flipped between the 2 and 3 spots. Sure Maelstroms were well represented in those stats. I don't think you are correct that they held dominance for any significant period of time. Drakes were and have been used by so many others even the blob of CFC couldn't reverse the Drake stats. If someone has access to an evekill set of last day of the month top-20 snapshots for the last 3 years please link it. I could be wrong, but I don't think so because I've been following that page and I don't remember any meaningful diminution in Drake top placement. I will conced that 3 to one drakes over second place has not been consistent. It has been a lesser ratio. Mfume Apocal wrote: And lost to actual BS. Repeatedly. Pointedly. For months on end. Like every other battlecruiser in the game. Stainwagon and -A- drake fleets lost to BSs like that because frankly they saw PL involvement, increasing enemy numbers, and turtled up. I fought their drake fleets a lot in INIT. There did come a time when the political situation, and subcap and supercap fleet numbers, overwhelmed -A-/stainwagon (which is not to say that they fought well before that time). But even then they found that at a certain fleet sized tipping point Drakes beat AHACs (whereas at lesser numbers AHACs>drakes). Point still stands that large Drake fleets are a cheap and viable fleet option that no other BC can perform in taking on opposing large fleets. Mfume Apocal wrote: Drake week happens every once in awhile in BL, has been that way since before I joined a year ago. We do it because it's a better learning platform than a Muninn for gang pvp. Meanwhile Tengus are a hard-counter (appropriately employed) against Alphafleet that we've been fighting. Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles. Tier 3 BC fleets are not a slugging it out option. They are great for mobile periphery killing if you are in a coalition of alliances on the field and someone else is providing the BS (or Drake, heh) tanking main meatshield fleet. On their own tier 3s are not going to save system sov and tech towers
Lili Lu 202	Posted - 2012.04.21 14:42:00 - [51] - Quote Malcanis wrote: However Drakes are much less heavily used than when they were the de facto fleet ship in the horrible post-Dominion lag days. There are plenty of viable non-Drake fleet options - probably more now than ever - but Drakes will continue to be popular for as long as they're cheap, easy to skill for and easy to fly. It's not like there are no viable counters to a Drake fleet either; Hellcats, alphafleet and sniper tier 3s all spring to mind. Mfume is correct CFC use of Maels has had a significant impact on their placement in the evekill stats, but then same for canes and drakes. Regardless Drakes still proliferate for the reasons that even you agree, "as long as they're cheap, easy to skill for and easy to fly." But those quoted reasons alone are not enough to explain why they and no other tier 1 or 2 BCs enjoy being used as a main fleet type. It is the oversized tank and the ability to project their full damage (even if that is not spectacular it is sufficient) at 70km. As for counters, sure if you know the opposition is in Drakes again then don't bring pulse geddons because unless you get some lucky warpins and adept tackle you will just lose, so instead bring something to try to outrange (tier 3 snipe) or out(or tbh equally)tank (abaddon) or alpha (massed artillery). Again though Malc, the problem is that Drakes alone of all tier 1 and 2 BCs are sitting as a main battle ship among Battleships. It's a friggin BC but it has the utility of a BS. It is good to see that Rokhs are now being used alongside Maels. I would love cruises get some kind of buff that wouldn't make them pve on easy mode but would make them viable for fleet actions. If we could have mixed Raven and Tempest (a ship I have always thought should be reworked to have a shield focus) fleets, and maybe reworked Hyperion. Or if we could on the armor side have cruises make phoons viable in a mixed armor tanking BS fleet. There was a time when snipe BSs ruled when we did not have monoculture fleets. That was great. But unfortunately we have a situation now where fleets are either Maels, Abaddons, or Drakes, with Drakes winning out frankly because they are much easier on the wallet to produce, fit, and lose. Btw, it saddens me immensely to see INIT using Drakes all the time now
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 160	Posted - 2012.04.21 17:12:00 - [52] - Quote Its a love-hate relationship. I love its versatility, you can pretty much use it for anything, when I got a 2nd account alt, its the first thing I trained for. If you want an all purpose ship, the Drake is that ship. Its hated because no other ship comes close to its versatility - where is the balance? About the only thing the drake can't do is tackle well, and mining/industrial tasks (Most BS's can be fit to mine decently, but nobody is going to go from a drake to a BS for mining.....)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3423	Posted - 2012.04.21 17:50:00 - [53] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Btw, it saddens me immensealy to see INIT using Drakes all the time now Why? If they're so "overpowered", then surely it makes sense to use them, right? But actually we always seem to be running tier 3 fleets when i log in, not Drakes. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Kengutsi Akira Ministry of War Amarr Empire 423	Posted - 2012.04.21 18:00:00 - [54] - Quote Talok Ren wrote: I was looking to upgrade from my Cormorant to start doing some lvl 2 missions and was told that the Drake would be a good ship to get, so I trained all the necessary skills, found a seemingly decent loadout and started saving the ISK for it. Then I started seeing a lot of players hating on it and making general fun of others who pilot them with no real reason given. Can anyone inform me as to why this is, or Is this more of a PVP/balance issue? I am really wanting a decent missile boat, is there a better ship for level 2 missions or should I just dismiss the negativity towards the ship since I'm mainly doing PVE missions? Because it can do anything pretty much. PPl hate versatility in this game https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1109909#post1109909 My stance on WiS (updated)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3423	Posted - 2012.04.21 18:00:00 - [55] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Again though Malc, the problem is that Drakes alone of all tier 1 and 2 BCs are sitting as a main battle ship among Battleships. It's a friggin BC but it has the utility of a BS. A drake has significantly less tank than a fleet BS, and less damage too. That said, why is it a problem that Drakes are viable, if somewhat underpowered, fleet ships? Arty canes can do the snipe alpha thing in a way that Drakes just can't, AC canes can be fit to do 900 DPS which no Drake can. I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing a problem here. Drakes aren't uncounterable, they don't obselete battleships, they don't obselete other tier 2 battlecruisers - all of which can do things well that the drake can't, although the Harby could use some optimal love and the Myrm needs 100 Mbit bandwidth - they're popular because they allow new players to get involved in the big fleet action that many of them no doubt joined the game hoping to see after watching CCP's lovely trailers. Should we be telling them NO FLEET FOR YOU FOR TWO YEARS based on some abstract notion of racial fairness? Come to think of it, Goons have a Hurricane based fleet doctrine too, IIRC. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Lili Lu 203	Posted - 2012.04.21 18:09:00 - [56] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Lili Lu wrote: Btw, it saddens me immensealy to see INIT using Drakes all the time now Why? If they're so "overpowered", then surely it makes sense to use them, right? But actually we always seem to be running tier 3 fleets when i log in, not Drakes. But I said sadens for the historical juxtaposition with the former -A- v INIT contests. I also said saddens, not confuses. Of course why not use a ship that is a cheap but overpowered alternative. Can't blame anyone for doing what CCP has left too easy for too long. But I can still criticize the situation for all alliances in general, and summon my best Worf voice to proclaim that it lacks honor. edit - come on Malc your examples all lack full fleet viability. 900 dps hurricanes? where's the tank? where's the range? Yeah welp canes are a go to fleet for internet sov is serious business battles? and of course canes are always sitting in first place in the top 20 by huge margins?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3423	Posted - 2012.04.21 18:12:00 - [57] - Quote "Stop using a screwdriver to put those screws into that board! A TRUE WARRIOR uses only a hammer or an axe!!!!" Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3423	Posted - 2012.04.21 18:14:00 - [58] - Quote Also they're not overpowered you big sexyvoiced crybaby. Let's imagine the following scenario: 80 Hellcats + 20 Guardians + 20 assorted support engage 120 Drakes + 30 Scimis + 20 assorted support I won't ask who wins, because the Drakes are going to get their **** pushed in, I'll just ask for your estimate of how long it will take for the Drake FC to ask for a cyno for the supercaps? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Lili Lu 203	Posted - 2012.04.21 18:31:00 - [59] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Also they're not overpowered you big sexyvoiced crybaby. Let's imagine the following scenario: 80 Hellcats + 20 Guardians + 20 assorted support engage 120 Drakes + 30 Scimis + 20 assorted support I won't ask who wins, because the Drakes are going to get their ** pushed in, I'll just ask for your estimate of how long it will take for the Drake FC to ask for a cyno for the supercaps? Have to admit I lack your recent experience with such a hypothetical encounter. ***** work and less eve time. I'm reduced to crying here on the forums. However, talkabout sexy. 30 scimis looks pretty sexy to me. Can those drakes have ecm drones. I would think 20 ecm'd guardians won't hold up the baddons very long. But I suppose I should take your word for it as my recent experience is lacking. Regardless, the issue is not can Drakes be beat. It is where are the Harbinger and Myrm fleets? Why is there one tech I BC sitting among BSs and Tech III ships for comprising the backbone of a fleet? Why is a Drake the easiest and fastest entry to level 4s for characters starting out, while other races have to train BS? Why is the Drake a pve and pvp powerhouse while none of the others are?
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 57	Posted - 2012.04.21 19:17:00 - [60] - Quote Anyway, this discussion is going to be irrelevant. Drake will be changed. The real question is when is the change going to occur. And after the change, how will this affect the popularity of Drake in PVE, PVP and fleet tactics? CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3423	Posted - 2012.04.21 19:23:00 - [61] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Malcanis wrote: Also they're not overpowered you big sexyvoiced crybaby. Let's imagine the following scenario: 80 Hellcats + 20 Guardians + 20 assorted support engage 120 Drakes + 30 Scimis + 20 assorted support I won't ask who wins, because the Drakes are going to get their ** pushed in, I'll just ask for your estimate of how long it will take for the Drake FC to ask for a cyno for the supercaps? Have to admit I lack your recent experience with such a hypothetical encounter. ***** work and less eve time. I'm reduced to crying here on the forums. However, talkabout sexy. 30 scimis looks pretty sexy to me. Can those drakes have ecm drones. I would think 20 ecm'd guardians won't hold up the baddons very long. But I suppose I should take your word for it as my recent experience is lacking. Regardless, the issue is not can Drakes be beat. It is where are the Harbinger and Myrm fleets? Why is there one tech I BC sitting among BSs and Tech III ships for comprising the backbone of a fleet? Why is a Drake the easiest and fastest entry to level 4s for characters starting out, while other races have to train BS? Why is the Drake a pve and pvp powerhouse while none of the others are? Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed. ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed. Why should all battlecruisers be equally capable at all roles? No other ship class exhibits this kind of homogeneity unless maybe covops. Devoters are simply indisputably better fleet HICs than Phobos are, no contest, but that doesn't make the Phobos bad or the Devoter OP, because the Phobos is a way better gate camper. Myrms are bad at being fleet ships, but that doesn't make them bad ships, it just means they're not useful for the specific requirements of large fleets. PS The Dominix is about as fast and easy an entry to level 4s as a Drake. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
AKilla Sunday Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.04.21 20:37:00 - [62] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shYbs2f-VgA Skip to 0:18
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 407	Posted - 2012.04.21 21:59:00 - [63] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles. Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore.
Kalli Brixzat 9	Posted - 2012.04.21 22:29:00 - [64] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Lili Lu wrote: Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles. Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore. Drakes, like most other ships, are fitted significantly differently depending on what you are doing. Story at 11.
Luba Cibre Global Song Setup 102	Posted - 2012.04.21 22:35:00 - [65] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore. I'm still in love for the evoke guys who invented the PermaMWD drake.
Rara Yariza Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.04.21 23:32:00 - [66] - Quote Death Toll007 wrote: Currently run a PbP setup with 80k ehp and 700dps. -DT link pls
Lili Lu 203	Posted - 2012.04.21 23:51:00 - [67] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed. ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed. And yet you are using Drakes the majority of the time. Malcanis wrote: Why should all battlecruisers be equally capable at all roles? No other ship class exhibits this kind of homogeneity unless maybe covops. Devoters are simply indisputably better fleet HICs than Phobos are, no contest, but that doesn't make the Phobos bad or the Devoter OP, because the Phobos is a way better gate camper. Myrms are bad at being fleet ships, but that doesn't make them bad ships, it just means they're not useful for the specific requirements of large fleets. Difference being you can't have a fleet of Devoters. Well you could but what would it do? Sure in specialized ship classes like dictors and hictors there exist qualitative differences and battle scenarios where one may be better than others. But they are not stepping up to slugging with a higher skiled ship class. BCs and BSs are fleet dps backbone ships. What if there was a tech I cruiser that as a fleet could stand toe to toe with BC fleets? No problem according to your reasoning. It's just a Cruiser that is better than the others (ding ding) they can't all be equal. But it is not a mere inequality it is qualitative jump in ship class. Drakes do this and this is how they are different from a Sabre that is better than the others (which is not to say that imbalance shouldn't be addressed also). Malcanis wrote: PS The Dominix is about as fast and easy an entry to level 4s as a Drake. No.
Lili Lu 203	Posted - 2012.04.21 23:58:00 - [68] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Lili Lu wrote: Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles. Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore. Yes perma mwd-ing Canes perform just like those Drakes. And of course, if you want to be an anachronism you can tank fit your Canes with the same capabilities of tank Drakes. So, this is why I keep returning to the eve-kill top-20 statistics. It has been clearly displaying canes and drakes as equally used for the last few years. No problem, and that is why CCP hasn't finally said the Drake will be altered. btw - the super amazing awesome tank is worthless because it's mainly used for pve. who needs that?
Lord Dravius Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2012.04.22 10:18:00 - [69] - Quote Talok Ren wrote: I was looking to upgrade from my Cormorant to start doing some lvl 2 missions and was told that the Drake would be a good ship to get, so I trained all the necessary skills, found a seemingly decent loadout and started saving the ISK for it. Then I started seeing a lot of players hating on it and making general fun of others who pilot them with no real reason given. Can anyone inform me as to why this is, or Is this more of a PVP/balance issue? I am really wanting a decent missile boat, is there a better ship for level 2 missions or should I just dismiss the negativity towards the ship since I'm mainly doing PVE missions? If you're in a Drake you should be doing lv3. The reason people don't like it is because it's overpowered, not because it sucks. You don't have any reason to switch out of it.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 408	Posted - 2012.04.22 11:02:00 - [70] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Yes perma mwd-ing Canes perform just like those Drakes. We don't use perma-MWDing Drakes. I have no idea why that particular fit is even popular, it's dumb as hell. Quote: And of course, if you want to be an anachronism you can tank fit your Canes with the same capabilities of tank Drakes. You can actually fit them to be better in the current meta, it's just no one does. I don't know why, but I suspect it's the same reason people think that perma-MWDing Drakes are a legit fleet comp. Quote: So, this is why I keep returning to the eve-kill top-20 statistics. It has been clearly displaying canes and drakes as equally used for the last few years. No problem, and that is why CCP hasn't finally said the Drake will be altered. Considering the proposed changed was a massive buff to the Drake, I'm not sure you're going to be pleased with the outcome. Especially when solo and small gang sub-BS becomes Drakes n' Talos Online.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3432	Posted - 2012.04.22 13:30:00 - [71] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Malcanis wrote: Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed. ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed. And yet you are using Drakes the majority of the time. No we aren't. Last night we formed up in armour fleet. The night before that it was sniper tier 3s, the fleet before that was bombers. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Orlacc Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 121	Posted - 2012.04.22 15:28:00 - [72] - Quote Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what?
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 57	Posted - 2012.04.22 15:32:00 - [73] - Quote Orlacc wrote: Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what? drake is the justin bieber of spaceships
Roime Shiva Furnace 553	Posted - 2012.04.22 15:43:00 - [74] - Quote Daniel Plain wrote: drake is the justin bieber of spaceships Truth. No sane person with a pair likes it, but it's still popular. ~ Elite forum PvP ~
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.22 15:46:00 - [75] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: We don't use perma-MWDing Drakes. I have no idea why that particular fit is even popular, it's dumb as hell. The fact that Abaddon pilot can't hit it with arties doesn't make this fit "dumb as hell".
MadMuppet Kerguelen Station 265	Posted - 2012.04.22 18:27:00 - [76] - Quote I had a Drake on an alt account for added fire support to blitz missions when I was still learning the game. I grew bored with it though because all you did was orbit and hit F1 all of the time. I have just bought one again (partly because of the proposed change to BC skills I can fly them on this toon), but to be honest it is just to see all the cool upcoming missile effects in the next patch. It really is a versatile ship if you want to tinker with it, including secondary support roles. Below however is just how, un-serious, I am taking my ownership of the one I own: [Drake, Need better missile skills] [Cap stable because it is only flown when drunk] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Medium Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 100MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket [empty high slot] Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I I don't always finish my commentary, but when I do
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3437	Posted - 2012.04.22 18:39:00 - [77] - Quote Orlacc wrote: Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what? I'm too cool to like popular things Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Sigurd Sig Hansen Hedion University Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2012.04.22 18:55:00 - [78] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Orlacc wrote: Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what? I'm too cool to like popular things Its cool to hate popular things. Look at WoW If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next? Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.22 19:03:00 - [79] - Quote Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote: If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next? No, CCP buffs Drake. They have already plans for Tengu. Currently Tengu is better than Caldari T2 cruisers. It shouldn't be that way.
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 57	Posted - 2012.04.22 19:25:00 - [80] - Quote Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote: Malcanis wrote: Orlacc wrote: Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what? I'm too cool to like popular things Its cool to hate popular things. Look at WoW If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next? coming from a guy with upwards of 10k hours played, you should hate wow not because it's popular but because it sucks. big time.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 410	Posted - 2012.04.23 03:27:00 - [81] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: The fact that Abaddon pilot can't hit it with arties doesn't make this fit "dumb as hell". Arties hit MWDing Drakes perfectly fine. It doesn't have the EHP of a brick Drake, it sacrifices the utility of the standard PDU Drake and under TQ conditions a nano-Drake outruns it forever.
Barbie D0ll Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2012.04.23 07:29:00 - [82] - Quote the drake is easy to use, logi friendly, low sp requirement, hard to screw up, good in fleets (the counterpart of the hurricane), shines with high SP (which allow other fittings that curb stomp everything stupid enough to get in range, just like the hurricane), and its cheap, and easily replaceable
Raptors Mole The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost 1	Posted - 2012.04.23 09:52:00 - [83] - Quote Ref: The alleged proposed changes to the Drake; Make the drake faster and drop its tank for more DPS? Make the Harbi faster? (God knows it needs something) Reduce Myrms drone bandwidth for more speed and up turret DPS? Leave Cane alone? Yay! We can all fly the Dra-Cane-Myrmi-Harb. We can all be the same. Well Done CCP - now thats what I call balancing! The Drake is what it is - Caldari thru and thru. It ain't broke/overpowered. It doesn't need a major makeover. On the other hand, is a spider AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaargh! Raptors
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.23 10:03:00 - [84] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Arties hit MWDing Drakes perfectly fine. If Drake is flying directly towards you or away from you. Or it's afk and has velocity of 0m/s, it does help.
Dheeradj Nurgle Misfit Syndicate Warden. 0	Posted - 2012.04.23 11:26:00 - [85] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: The Drake is a superb Level 2 and 3 mission boat. Probably nothing better out there for that purpose. As much as I love the Drake, I disagree, With proper skills the Brutix has a better tank, and can do a lot more damage. The same is true for the Dominix vs Raven. The Dominix can have a larger tank, with more DPS from drones alone. The drake is a lot more mobile, while the Galante droneboats just sit there, laughing when they take a shot head on. Quote: Long and short of it: fly the Drake and don't give a damn what other people think. Agreed 100%, and it applies to every ship you want to fly. It's how you fly your ship, not how others see it.
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 59	Posted - 2012.04.23 13:12:00 - [86] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Jorma Morkkis wrote: The fact that Abaddon pilot can't hit it with arties doesn't make this fit "dumb as hell". Arties hit MWDing Drakes perfectly fine. I saw this first hand myself yesterday. My alt's Drake made it home safe and sound, but several did not.
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 59	Posted - 2012.04.23 13:16:00 - [87] - Quote Dheeradj Nurgle wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: The Drake is a superb Level 2 and 3 mission boat. Probably nothing better out there for that purpose. As much as I love the Drake, I disagree, With proper skills the Brutix has a better tank, and can do a lot more damage. The same is true for the Dominix vs Raven. The Dominix can have a larger tank, with more DPS from drones alone. The drake is a lot more mobile, while the Galante droneboats just sit there, laughing when they take a shot head on. If a player has proper skills, he probably shouldn't be wasting them in Level 2 or Level 3 missions (unless he is blitzing them to open up Level 4 standings). The fact that a low SP player can do well in a Drake is precisely the thing that makes it attractive in those low level missions.
Tobiaz Spacerats 316	Posted - 2012.04.23 17:07:00 - [88] - Quote Drakes take a long time to die, and 'real' PvP-ers don't like it when things take a long time to die. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Misanthra Alternative Enterprises 53	Posted - 2012.04.23 20:30:00 - [89] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: Drakes take a long time to die, and 'real' PvP-ers don't like it when things take a long time to die. lot of ftruth to that lol. Flew and flown agaisnt drakes. Tank is its main feature imo. And why its not liked. Takes a while to kill. Fleet level makes it unliked as you actually have to primary them to drop em fast. And it can be done, I have been 3 shotted, well the volleys hit so I saw 3 massive dips in tank to be more accurate, by a good pirmary call out....km list of shooters read like the same ones I got in bs' lol. Skirmish style its not liked, imo, becasue if you don't bring the proper dps it basically goes on and on till the other guy gridns the tank down or gets bored and burns out to break point and gtfo since he knows he's jsut burning ammo on a semi-lost cause lol. If proposed drake change go through, be interesting to see how this "nerfs" the drake . Part of me is thinking the ROF will still make this ship hated. Just hated for more gank instead of tank. While not the same as winmatar ac round spewing its still better than what she has now. Fleet or skirmish....this should be an actual improvement. Worth the lost tank imo.
Sjugar Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 40	Posted - 2012.04.23 22:20:00 - [90] - Quote The reason I hate drakes is that our FCs make us fly them for so many hours. In large scale fleet engagements, for subcaps it's only drakes, maelstroms, bombers and sniper t3s that are effective. The rest just gets volleyed of the field.
Tobiaz Spacerats 321	Posted - 2012.04.24 07:32:00 - [91] - Quote Misanthra wrote: Tobiaz wrote: Drakes take a long time to die, and 'real' PvP-ers don't like it when things take a long time to die. lot of ftruth to that lol. Flew and flown agaisnt drakes. Tank is its main feature imo. And why its not liked. Takes a while to kill. Fleet level makes it unliked as you actually have to primary them to drop em fast. And it can be done, I have been 3 shotted, well the volleys hit so I saw 3 massive dips in tank to be more accurate, by a good pirmary call out....km list of shooters read like the same ones I got in bs' lol. Skirmish style its not liked, imo, becasue if you don't bring the proper dps it basically goes on and on till the other guy gridns the tank down or gets bored and burns out to break point and gtfo since he knows he's jsut burning ammo on a semi-lost cause lol. If proposed drake change go through, be interesting to see how this "nerfs" the drake . Part of me is thinking the ROF will still make this ship hated. Just hated for more gank instead of tank. While not the same as winmatar ac round spewing its still better than what she has now. Fleet or skirmish....this should be an actual improvement. Worth the lost tank imo. In view of the very good upcoming Tiercide, I think CCP should keep their hands of the Drake. With it's low DPS and massive signature the Drake already is quite balanced, and this is shown by the fact that Tr3 BC have taken over a lot of the BC-spots in fleets. The uber-tanky Drake was a very good role-defined ship. Giving it a tank-nerf and dps-boost just puts it back in the area of general usefulness area that is ruled by 'flavour of the day' of the highest tier, doing a 180 degree turn on what Tiercide is supposed to achieve. Besides, giving a ROF boost to a ship wielding 7 missile launchers, the most lag-heavy weapons in this game? OMG CCP what the hell are you thinking?! Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Crellion Parental Control 14	Posted - 2012.04.24 11:45:00 - [92] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: Misanthra wrote: Tobiaz wrote: Drakes take a long time to die, and 'real' PvP-ers don't like it when things take a long time to die. lot of ftruth to that lol. Flew and flown agaisnt drakes. Tank is its main feature imo. And why its not liked. Takes a while to kill. Fleet level makes it unliked as you actually have to primary them to drop em fast. And it can be done, I have been 3 shotted, well the volleys hit so I saw 3 massive dips in tank to be more accurate, by a good pirmary call out....km list of shooters read like the same ones I got in bs' lol. Skirmish style its not liked, imo, becasue if you don't bring the proper dps it basically goes on and on till the other guy gridns the tank down or gets bored and burns out to break point and gtfo since he knows he's jsut burning ammo on a semi-lost cause lol. If proposed drake change go through, be interesting to see how this "nerfs" the drake . Part of me is thinking the ROF will still make this ship hated. Just hated for more gank instead of tank. While not the same as winmatar ac round spewing its still better than what she has now. Fleet or skirmish....this should be an actual improvement. Worth the lost tank imo. In view of the very good upcoming Tiercide, I think CCP should keep their hands of the Drake. With it's low DPS and massive signature the Drake already is quite balanced, and this is shown by the fact that Tr3 BC have taken over a lot of the BC-spots in fleets. The uber-tanky Drake was a very good role-defined ship. Giving it a tank-nerf and dps-boost just puts it back in the area of general usefulness area that is ruled by 'flavour of the day' of the highest tier, doing a 180 degree turn on what Tiercide is supposed to achieve. Besides, giving a ROF boost to a ship wielding 7 missile launchers, the most lag-heavy weapons in this game? OMG CCP what the hell are you thinking?! So they are giving Draeks a rof bonus? Dunno bout pvp (though I know I might now try one again for small gang) but for pve this is a bit OTT...
Sunviking The Shining Knights 31	Posted - 2012.04.24 14:01:00 - [93] - Quote The reason why I don't use the Drake anymore is because it's DPS is the poorest of the Tier 2 Battlecruisers. EFT comparison: Hurricane: 787DPS with 6 Autocannons + 2 HAM launchers, 3 x Gyros, 1 x BCS. Myrmidon: 878DPS with 6 Blasters + 3 x damage mods and Drones (Kinetic + Thermal + selectable drone damage types). Harbinger: 671DPS with Pulses and 3 x damage mods (even mix of EM + Thermal damage). Drake: 638DPS with HAMs and 3 x damage mods (only with Kinetic damage). FEROX: 665 DPS with 6 Blasters and 1 HAM Launcher, 3 x Mag Field Stabs. Weapons above are unheated, all skills at lvl 5. I actually really want a Hurricane and a Myrmidon now. Drake is balanced too much towards tank, not gank. Even a Blaster Ferox outdamages it.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 270	Posted - 2012.04.24 16:51:00 - [94] - Quote Sunviking, are you a refugee from 2007?
Studley Goodfk Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.04.24 18:30:00 - [95] - Quote I am back to the game after a year away. Unfortunately, I sold off my old character and gave away most of my assets when I left, thinking I would not be back, so am starting from scratch again. My old main was a full on Minmatar with over 50k skill points when I auctioned it and I am fairly confident that I knew my way around most of the game. Coming back there is only one route I even remotely considered to get back into action quickly, and that involves the Drake!! My aim is to blitz through missions ASAP to get to Lvl 3s in order to get he ISK rolling in enough to finance the step to Lvl 4s. I already swarmed through the Lvl 1s and am in the thick of Lvl 2s using an assault missile Caracal. I already have the skills for the Drake fit I aim to use for Lvl 3+ but just don't have the ISK to buy it yet!! :) As previously mentioned, there is no other ship that is so easy to train for and so simple to fly, yet to be so safe. Boring? God, yes! Once I am into Lvl 4s then I will branch out and get back into the ships I love (Minmatar all the way!!!!!). I know it is a longer training route for PvP, but it is a much quicker way to get back into the thick of things. Having quick, disposable capital is much better for the long game, and I quite enjoy being the scout/tackle. Hehe. And besides, the shield and basic drone skills are equally useful for the ships I like to fly anyway.
Zyress Caldari Provisions Caldari State 60	Posted - 2012.04.24 20:49:00 - [96] - Quote I'd call it over kill for lvl 2's a caracal or for that matter a Kestrel can do lvl 2's, they hate on the Drake because its a very good ship when in a massed fleet, but that can be said of a lot of ships , the Drake is just cheaper and easier to train to an acceptable performance level than most of those other ships. With the new tier 3 Battlecuisers though I think the classic Drake Blob is out ranged so that should not be as big a problem untill they extend its range again with the upcoming rebalance that will increase its missile speed.
Zyress Caldari Provisions Caldari State 60	Posted - 2012.04.24 21:03:00 - [97] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote: If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next? No, CCP buffs Drake. They have already plans for Tengu. Currently Tengu is better than Caldari T2 cruisers. It shouldn't be that way. The Tengu is fine, its a T3 cruiser which is supposed to be customizable to fill a lot of different roles. It shouldn't fill them better than a T2 which is specialized for the role, but it just so happens that the Nighthawk, and the Cerberus suck. It is not better than a Falcon or Rook in their roles.
Sunviking The Shining Knights 33	Posted - 2012.04.24 21:18:00 - [98] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Sunviking, are you a refugee from 2007? I honestly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... I've only been playing this game for 2 years. What happened in 2007? Around that time I was playing Civilisation 4.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 410	Posted - 2012.04.25 00:36:00 - [99] - Quote Sunviking wrote: I honestly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... I've only been playing this game for 2 years. What happened in 2007? Around that time I was playing Civilisation 4. Your analysis of the Drake is... dated.
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 59	Posted - 2012.04.25 01:03:00 - [100] - Quote Sunviking wrote: The reason why I don't use the Drake anymore is because it's DPS is the poorest of the Tier 2 Battlecruisers. EFT comparison: Hurricane: 787DPS with 6 Autocannons + 2 HAM launchers, 3 x Gyros, 1 x BCS. Myrmidon: 878DPS with 6 Blasters + 3 x damage mods and Drones (Kinetic + Thermal + selectable drone damage types). Harbinger: 671DPS with Pulses and 3 x damage mods (even mix of EM + Thermal damage). Drake: 578DPS with HAMs and 3 x damage mods (only with Kinetic damage). FEROX: 606 DPS with 6 Blasters and 1 HAM Launcher, 3 x Mag Field Stabs. Weapons above are unheated, all skills at lvl 5, no implants. I actually really want a Hurricane and a Myrmidon now. Drake is balanced too much towards tank, not gank. Even a Blaster Ferox outdamages it. Looking at the above, the Drake is pretty rubbish. Tengu only performs well because it has an obscene RoF bonus. Caldari ships in general lack the DPS and application of DPS to perform well in PvP. The HML Drake vastly outperforms all those ships in application of DPS. Paper DPS is meaningless.
Niko Takahashi United Starbase Systems 38	Posted - 2012.04.25 04:26:00 - [101] - Quote Look another whine thread about Drakes.
Wastelander Miccey Umbrella Holding Inc Umbrella Chemical Inc 0	Posted - 2012.05.10 17:37:00 - [102] - Quote Like some above poster said... If it works its wrong.. Then it need to be nerfed... If CCP release something that works as intended but some dude find out that it would also be good at *********** (insert own ideas) then everyone starts whining and demands changes... PATHETIQ
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1203	Posted - 2012.05.10 20:48:00 - [103] - Quote jagholas kiri wrote: Gallente are OP at gates and stations now... Not winmatar. Fixed 4U
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 105	Posted - 2012.05.10 21:28:00 - [104] - Quote hello dear drake thread, nice to see you again. i've missed you... a little.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 36	Posted - 2012.05.10 21:53:00 - [105] - Quote Wow, how many people really think that 110k EHP with 1000+ passive regen isn't bad. Do you even know how difficult is to counter 300-400 Drake fleet?
Jayrendo Karr Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth 104	Posted - 2012.05.10 22:38:00 - [106] - Quote Ewar kills the drake dead.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 36	Posted - 2012.05.10 23:07:00 - [107] - Quote Jayrendo Karr wrote: Ewar kills the drake dead. Neut/nos: no effect Tracking disruption: no effect Target painting: no need, it already has signature radius of the planet Sensor damps: could work somewhat ECM: ever heard of FoF missiles?
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 434	Posted - 2012.05.11 01:26:00 - [108] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Wow, how many people really think that 110k EHP with 1000+ passive regen isn't bad. Do you even know how difficult is to counter 300-400 Drake fleet? I know this is a troll, but if you think there are entire fleets of purger rigged, 3x SPR Drakes rolling around, you're crazy.
The Atomium Global Song Setup 3	Posted - 2012.05.11 01:36:00 - [109] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Jayrendo Karr wrote: Ewar kills the drake dead. Neut/nos: no effect Tracking disruption: no effect Target painting: no need, it already has signature radius of the planet Sensor damps: could work somewhat ECM: ever heard of FoF missiles? Neut/nos: shuts down your tank (active hardeners / invul fields brah) Tracking disruption: no effect for now Target painting: makes it even worse Sensor damps: they work in pairs. ECM: >you're actually using FoF missiles. aka Luba Cibre
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 36	Posted - 2012.05.11 01:53:00 - [110] - Quote The Atomium wrote: Neut/nos: shuts down your tank (active hardeners / invul fields brah) Passive Drake doesn't care about those. [Drake, Passive Drake] Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [Empty High slot] Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II EM Ward Amplifier II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 85	Posted - 2012.05.11 03:03:00 - [111] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: The Atomium wrote: Neut/nos: shuts down your tank (active hardeners / invul fields brah) Passive Drake doesn't care about those. [Drake, Passive Drake] Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [Empty High slot] Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II EM Ward Amplifier II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I And I don't care about that passive Drake. It cannot do anything to me. It has no propulsion and no tackle. To quote "Easy A," "you're on crack. And not the good kind." People bringing fits like yours to fleets back in 2007-2008 is precisely the reason why everyone hates the Drake.
Otrebla Utrigas Space Bastards 12	Posted - 2012.05.11 07:38:00 - [112] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Jorma Morkkis wrote: The Atomium wrote: Neut/nos: shuts down your tank (active hardeners / invul fields brah) Passive Drake doesn't care about those. [Drake, Passive Drake] Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [Empty High slot] Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II EM Ward Amplifier II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I And I don't care about that passive Drake. It cannot do anything to me. It has no propulsion and no tackle. To quote "Easy A," "you're on crack. And not the good kind." People bringing fits like yours to fleets back in 2007-2008 is precisely the reason why everyone hates the Drake. That drake is not (should not be) a PvP drake, except you are in a small gang with some other guy (in an inty or a AC nano cane) which can do the tackle. And just get rid of a single hardener for a disruptor / scram and BOOM, you have the cookie cutter Brick bait drake.
Robert Lefcourt Audentia et Artis E.B.O.L.A. 4	Posted - 2012.05.11 09:39:00 - [113] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Wow, how many people really think that 110k EHP with 1000+ passive regen isn't bad. Do you even know how difficult is to counter 300-400 Drake fleet? There is no such fitting.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 36	Posted - 2012.05.11 12:57:00 - [114] - Quote Robert Lefcourt wrote: There is no such fitting. Maybe not with 110k EHP. 98k EHP / 1300+ passive regen (but it hits like a girl): [Drake, Drake lol] 7x Heavy Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Heavy Missile) 3x Large Shield Extender II 3x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 4x Shield Power Relay II 3x Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
PavlikX Shadows of the Day 1	Posted - 2012.05.12 03:57:00 - [115] - Quote Drake have no problemm at all. The problemm is that there is no something similar amongst other races - all types of damage, passive shield tank (armor passive... you know, well, even active armor tank worse then shield one). CCP should make a lot work to make other ships be usefull (rebalancing of armor tank entirely, remaking ships personaly and so on and so forth). Because it is so sad that there only two such ships in the game - drake and tengu. Both in Caldari garage.
Grog Barrel Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2012.05.14 17:25:00 - [116] - Quote By the way, how went the spanish inquisition against the drake; did those (in)famous characters manage to influence the ccp headquarters with their cheap lobby-tricks enough to actually nerf it? p.s. been quite inactive lately.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3760	Posted - 2012.05.14 17:54:00 - [117] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Wow, how many people really think that 110k EHP with 1000+ passive regen isn't bad. Do you even know how difficult is to counter 300-400 Drake fleet? About as difficult as getting 120 guys in Hellcats and 40 in Guardians together and keeping a straight face at the same time. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3760	Posted - 2012.05.14 17:55:00 - [118] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Robert Lefcourt wrote: There is no such fitting. Maybe not with 110k EHP. 98k EHP / 1300+ passive regen (but it hits like a girl): [Drake, Drake lol] 7x Heavy Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Heavy Missile) 3x Large Shield Extender II 3x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 4x Shield Power Relay II 3x Medium Core Defense Field Purger II Oh well in that case you probably don't need all that many Guardians Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 48	Posted - 2012.05.14 18:01:00 - [119] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Oh well in that case you probably don't need all that many Guardians Yes, I already know I started as wrong race. Armor tanking just doesn't work in big fights.

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