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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:14:00 - [301] Originally by: Goumindong that laser ships could hit MWDing nano ships at range meant nothing, the ability of blaster ships to prosecute pvp was increased. That is what we call a buff... Web nerf ****s all over blasterboats' ability to prosecute PvP. I flew blasterboats during the nanoage. I fly them now. They are way worse off now than they were before.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:22:00 - [302] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus MWD + web + scram + wd + cap injector vs. MWD + web + scram + cap injector on the Aba. And how does the Abaddon catch people? If you're going for a scrambler fit why in the world would you choose an Abaddon? You go 700m/s.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:38:00 - [303] Edited by: Murina on 15/02/2009 19:42:33 Originally by: Goumindong So he is reducing the damage successfully by a single target by a large amount and this is not valuable? You are a joke and so are your pitiful excuses. It is utterly worthless and the reduction by orbiting at close range is virtually the same against blaster ships. Originally by: Goumindong That is fine, then use the extra med for something like eccm, or a scrambler to shut off mwd's... or a sensor booster to lock faster. Well at least you agree the transversal issue is irrelevant. Originally by: Goumindong Yes, and that advantage is reduced when you increase hit points across the board. I know this is difficult, but that is what is called a "buff" Only if the HP are increased to capital level and they are not. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:41:00 - [304] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Deschenus Maximus MWD + web + scram + wd + cap injector vs. MWD + web + scram + cap injector on the Aba. And how does the Abaddon catch people? If you're going for a scrambler fit why in the world would you choose an Abaddon? You go 700m/s. Cos it can kill a mwding ship that gets too close, a benefit according to your earlier posts.... And the difference between 700 ms and 900ms is insignificant in gang combat with BS, stop acting like blaster ships are bloody ceptors ffs. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:56:00 - [305] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Deschenus Maximus MWD + web + scram + wd + cap injector vs. MWD + web + scram + cap injector on the Aba. And how does the Abaddon catch people? If you're going for a scrambler fit why in the world would you choose an Abaddon? You go 700m/s. This is again in relation to our notional BS + dedicated tackler + falcon gang. Sorry I was not clear.
mishkof Caldari Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2009.02.15 20:16:00 - [306] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: mishkof I do not think that saying much is neccesary as Murina has pretty much won every point in this debate as far as I am concerned. He have?. Tbh, i don't think he have been right in much in this topic. The graphs for example is a good enough proof that he's wrong. The graph shows that he is wrong? If you actually read everything that has been wrote it coincides exactly with what has been said. Scorch with pulses is the overall best close range gun setup in the game at the moment. Its cool, just expect to see more amarr ships in the future is all I am saying.
Alpha Prime Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:52:00 - [307] wow. If i didn't know better i'd say i have traveled back in time 4years. Dalman would probably agree with me. Oveur 2006: We're going to make blobwarfare less effective. Oveur 2008: We're installing better code so players can bring bigger blobs.
Novantco The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.15 22:11:00 - [308] I agree, boost blasters.
dalman Vale Tudo. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.16 00:13:00 - [309] Originally by: Alpha Prime wow. If i didn't know better i'd say i have traveled back in time 4years. Dalman would probably agree with me. o/ Tbh, I don't feel too bad about blasters atm (which partly is down to me hunting outlaws and wartargets in empire nowadays). Though ofc there are some issues: The most obvious one is tracking compared to ACs. It's still messed up that the devs decided to add a 37.5% tracking bonus to the mega (instead of keeping it at 25% and boosing blasters). Since the result is that blasters on a Hype/Domi have worse tracking than the minmatar BSs, which is just plain wrong. Then there is the nberness of lazors. Which tbh isn't very overpowered. But the damage-range-tracking combo adds up to a bit too much and hence one of these three should be lowered just a little bit. And of course it's kind of sad that all the blance of fitting requirements are now based around passive tanks - but tbh I doubt that I'd fit an active tank on anything except a marauder anyway, even if it could actually be done, considering the overall state of the game. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:40:00 - [310] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus This is again in relation to our notional BS + dedicated tackler + falcon gang. Sorry I was not clear. So was I. Your "failsafe" for your tackler having to get out is the BS keeping points... but the entire point of the tackler is to keep targets at a distance the BS can easily hit them... so if you lose the tackler, one of two things is going to happen. 1, they're going to warp out, or 2, they're going to close and kill you. Not to mention the opportunity cost of bringing a takler.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.16 03:13:00 - [311] Originally by: Goumindong 1, they're going to warp out, or 2, they're going to close and kill you. 1 will be dependant on the shiptype, but yeah, it is possible. 2, well, again that's going to depend on what you're fighting. Originally by: Goumindong Not to mention the opportunity cost of bringing a takler. It's one I'm entirely ready to pay when I'm flying a slow-ass BS with basically no backup
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.16 07:53:00 - [312] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus 1 will be dependant on the shiptype, but yeah, it is possible no, it will happen with anyone who does not believe they can win the fight. Quote: It's one I'm entirely ready to pay when I'm flying a slow-ass BS with basically no backup I for one would rather have another battleship.
Volucer S Noob Fight Club Noob Fleet	Posted - 2009.02.16 09:34:00 - [313] /signed
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.16 09:36:00 - [314] Edited by: Murina on 16/02/2009 09:38:49 Originally by: Goumindong Not to mention the opportunity cost of bringing a takler. I for one would rather have another battleship. The cost of not bringing a tackler is losing the ability to catch targets smaller than a BS. You are such a paper tiger its pathetic, your every ideas and scenarios are straight out of the statistics booklet and has 0 application in the reality of eve pvp. Get a clue. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:59:00 - [315] Edited by: Mag''s on 16/02/2009 11:59:25 /signed Oh and why is Goumindong posting about blasters, I thought he didn't fly Gallente????? edit: Hey dalman \o Regards Mag's
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.16 13:09:00 - [316] Originally by: Mag's /signed Oh and why is Goumindong posting about blasters, I thought he didn't fly Gallente????? He doesn't but a fix for blasters makes lasers less OP and I-WIN. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Kaidelong Einfachs	Posted - 2009.02.16 14:49:00 - [317] I do agree that at this point the amarr are the most balanced and overall best race to train in regards to energy turrets (although I don't think that means they should be nerfed). I had an idea though, why not boost Neutrons specifically to encourage more ganky and extreme gallente fits? In the Molden Heath market medium and small Ion IIs are much pricier (and more useful) than Neutron IIs, I think that stems in part from gallente ships often not having enough powergrid to fit both good blasters and a good tank. That's fine, although why do people pick the tank over the gank on a gallente ship? Isn't gank more my thing? Specifically boosting neutrons to have a better optimal range, rate of fire, and tracking so that they can hit more and harder will give more reason to put less emphasis on tank, and will put an end to the debates over whether a thorax with medium neutrons will beat a thorax with small neutrons (I see this going on on battleclinic, it really shouldn't be an issue, the gankier thorax should win). Should a Thorax with a rack of light neutron IIs and a 1600mm plate really be a viable improvement over one that is fitted according to its bonuses? Also the idea of giving neutron blasters more optimal makes sense in a sci-fi way: ions and electron beams will disperse themselves due to same charges repelling, neutron beams will stay coherent longer. tl;dr: boost at least neutrons to be gankier and better ranged and you'll maybe stop seeing as many thoraxes sporting a rack of light blasters and more people fitting their blaster ships for pure gank.
blackmambasnake	Posted - 2009.02.16 14:54:00 - [318] signed
cucac	Posted - 2009.02.16 15:56:00 - [319] Blasters are so extremly close range ( it is often very hard to get in that range ) that they should be very effective in this range, so boost...
Chi Quan Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.16 16:40:00 - [320] Originally by: cucac Blasters are so extremly close range ( it is often very hard to get in that range ) that they should be very effective in this range, so boost... haha, wait till Goum reads this, he'll start the whole thing again. let me walk you through it briefly: you: [quote above] Goum: they are you: what? no they are not. Goum: they are. look: highest damage. you: yes, but the range is crap. Goum: you are using the wrong guns if you need more range. you: but rails have lower damage. Goum: yes, but they shoot at long ranges. you: but i want short range. Goum: use blasters. you: no, they suck. they need more (insert turret attribute of choice here) Goum: no, they don't. plus you have drones. you: (pretty graphs + conclusion) Goum: no (more pretty graphs + conclusions) see, i told you. you: what? Goum: that. ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.16 17:43:00 - [321] you: [quote above] Goum: they are you: what? no they are not. Goum: they are. look: highest damage. you: yes, but the range is crap. Goum: you are using the wrong guns if you need more range. you: but rails have lower damage. Goum: yes, but they shoot at long ranges. you: but i want short range. Goum: use blasters. you: no, they suck. they need more (insert turret attribute of choice here) Goum: no, they don't. you can't (pilot/use them correctly). plus you have drones. you: (pretty graphs + conclusion) Goum: no (more pretty graphs + conclusions) see, i told you. you: what? Goum: that. you: but that's exactly what i said you just misinterpret it. Goum: no, see.... (insert 1 v 1 and highly unrealistic pvp scenarios) you: but those things never happen on TQ Goum: So? you: So???... they are worthless attributes/abilities that have no use on TQ or in anything other than a 1 v 1 BS scenarios that start at close range Goum: exactly, see gallente are good at summat and anyway im amarr so makings gallente slightly better at gang pvp will reduce my I-WIN race you: WTF..... Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
oMAKo Gallente Kiroshi Group	Posted - 2009.02.16 22:59:00 - [322] Signed Anyone can see Blasters need a tracking boost to make them a viable choice. And if you cant... the i guess you fail at EVE. ------------- Kiroshi Group -------------
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.16 23:35:00 - [323] Originally by: Goumindong no, it will happen with anyone who does not believe they can win the fight. You should have said "anyone who does not believe they can win the fight... and are faster". That leaves out Amarr ships, Caldari ships, and any ship without a MWD. Originally by: Goumindong I for one would rather have another battleship. But then what do you scout with? The Falcon? Good luck finding a fight that way. And good luck tackling anything in a belt with a BS.
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.17 00:59:00 - [324] Any weapons system that requires POINT BLANK RANGE and uses DOUBLE the Cap of a LONG RANGE weapons system AND is meant to be used in the vast distances of SPACE suxorz. Don't boost blasters, ELIMINATE THEM and double the damage and tracking on Railguns. Let the ammo type determine range on Gallente weapons. Fix the Wardec System!
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2009.02.17 01:51:00 - [325] I said it and i say again tracking that is all just weetle bit
Lord Augustus	Posted - 2009.02.17 04:15:00 - [326] Yeah Boost Blasters Give Them More Dmg and Tracking NERF MISSILES SOME MORE YEAH
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.17 08:41:00 - [327] Originally by: Kaidelong Einfachs That's fine, although why do people pick the tank over the gank on a gallente ship? Isn't gank more my thing? There is a relationship between tank and gank that exists for each size of gang and type of ship. Short range gank ships do not line up well in this relationship because their range prohibits them from being in larger gangs where time to deal damage is more a factor than how much you do. In larger gangs, tank as a function of repping becomes more or less irrelevant. The difference between a tank that reps 1000 dps and a tank that reps zero is nothing when incoming DPS is 5,000. Such as gangs get larger, tank becomes only a function of EHP, and DPS becomes a function of DPS and range. The most efficient battleships have the most range with the highest combination of EHP and DPS(I.E. EHPxDPS is highest). The best battleship by this metric is the Rokh, then the Apoc, then the Megathron and Maelstrom. Gank ships subscribe to the latter style of play, EHP x DPS > enemies EHP x DPS = You win. But the Gallente version don't have the range to play the game well, they never really have(exception, Thorax, due to various reasons). The Hyperion was a tacit acknowledgment of this fact as it brings the Gallente blastership doctrine back to a massive tank(663 overloaded w/ standard exile @ max skills for 3.5 minutes on a single rep). Though it is, ironically, still more efficient than the Megathron in pure EHP x DPS metrics(and its higher DPS within that makes it more likely to crush active tanks). Originally by: Deschenus Maximus You should have said "anyone who does not believe they can win the fight... and are faster". That leaves out Amarr ships, Caldari ships, and any ship without a MWD. No, your tackler is gone. Now your Abaddon(slowest BS in the game, in real terms), has to get to the target and put a scramble on them before they warp out. Or you have to be content with having massive problems engaging targets up close(which you're going to have anyway even with a scrambler). If you're closing on your target before your tackler dies why would you not be flying the better tanked(for this type of work at least), better tracking, faster Hyperion? Quote: But then what do you scout with? The Falcon? Good luck finding a fight that way. And good luck tackling anything in a belt with a BS. What, you're roaming with a small BS gang hoping to get a fight that isn't on a gate? Your falcon needs to be set up in whatever system you're using, so its unlikely that you're moving very fast, and your tackler needs to survive long enough that your falcon and BS can get on grid and kill the target. If you're killing belt ratters you don't need this type of setup. If your targets are more competent they're going to kill the tackler and leave, no matter what type of BS you bring. Either way you're pretty much entirely hoping that you run into a force you can deal with and that they engage you.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.17 08:55:00 - [328] Originally by: Goumindong The most efficient battleships have the most range with the highest combination of EHP and DPS(I.E. EHPxDPS is highest). The best battleship by this metric is the Rokh, then the Apoc, then the Megathron and Maelstrom. When sniping maybe in that order depending on the circumstances.. But for close range gang combat it goes in this order: 1. AMARR BS. 2. AMARR BS. 3. AMARR BS. L A R G E I M B A L A N C E D G A P 4. WHO CARES. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Aionstar	Posted - 2009.02.17 09:15:00 - [329] /sig boost blasters (tracking/optimal) ...and fix gallente recons (remove(?) useless damp bonus and give something useful)
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.17 14:04:00 - [330] Originally by: Goumindong No, your tackler is gone. Now your Abaddon(slowest BS in the game, in real terms), has to get to the target and put a scramble on them before they warp out. Or you have to be content with having massive problems engaging targets up close(which you're going to have anyway even with a scrambler). If you're closing on your target before your tackler dies why would you not be flying the better tanked(for this type of work at least), better tracking, faster Hyperion? Hum, I was talking about the Hype, mate. Originally by: Goumindong If you're killing belt ratters you don't need this type of setup. If you're hoping to cath them before they warp off, you do. And yes, you're probably not moving very fast either way, but a tackler (let's go with crow, cause I like the crow) adds some interesting options to a gang. For example, your falc and BS stay on the gate, and there's a flashy red BC on the other side. Your crow aggroes him, the pirate does so, the BS jumps in and pwns him. With 2 BS, one of you jumps in, and the BC just warps away (if he's not ******ed).

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