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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Kendon Riddick	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:55:00 - [61] REMOVE fall off and boost optimal so its smack inbetween pulses and auto optimal. give em a bit more tracking, 20% or so, as the mega clearly hits fine with its 30% bonus already. DONE!!!
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:03:00 - [62] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus So, what I feel should happen: 1-Blasters go from short falloff, even shorter optimal to equal-but-still-short optimal and falloff. For example, a neutron blaster cannon with top skills currently has 4.5(op) + 13(fo) on antimatter and 11(op) + 16(fo) on null. I propose this be changed to 9(op) + 9(fo) on antimatter (a 0.5km boost to total range... really, just to make it even numbers, more than anything) and 15(op) + 15(fo) on null (a 3 km boost to total range. Could go 14 + 14 (1km boost) if people feel 3km is too much). And although I don't want to touch too much on Large ACs, they would get a boost to falloff so that Barrage optimal + falloff would be right in-between a Large blaster op + fo on Null and Large lasers op + fo on Scorch. Ballpark figure: 6(op) + 37(fo) on 800mm with Barrage. Adjust all tiers of turrets to maintain the pattern. A very interesting idea, i kinda like it although i wish it could be tested as it has promise. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Zubakis Bambooule	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:06:00 - [63] If you increase optimal on blasters, Rokh will become an even better blasterboat, than any gallente bs could ever dream about. -- Zuba
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:59:00 - [64] Originally by: Zubakis If you increase optimal on blasters, Rokh will become an even better blasterboat, than any gallente bs could ever dream about. Caldari are supposed to be all about ranged combat so it kinda fits when you consider they have no hybrid dmg bonus on it to compensate and only few lows to plate/eanm up for RR.. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:40:00 - [65] Originally by: Zubakis If you increase optimal on blasters, Rokh will become an even better blasterboat, than any gallente bs could ever dream about. It may hit further, but it won't do anywhere near the amount of damage, and even if it does (using lowslots for mag stabs), in PvP, a shield tanked Rokh either has no tackle gear, or the tank is very limited. Hyperion/Megathron will remain far better PvP blasterboats, if not primarly due to bonuses and armor tank.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:52:00 - [66] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic say bye to me warping out Well there you go, we each have a counter But anyways, blaster boats are already sensitive to cap warfare. It's not like your neut pest wouldn't fare well against a blaster fitted Hype too. At least I wouldn't die while you're endlessly kitting me Originally by: Murina A very interesting idea, i kinda like it although i wish it could be tested as it has promise. Thank you. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for CCP to get this tested. Originally by: Zubakis If you increase optimal on blasters, Rokh will become an even better blasterboat, than any gallente bs could ever dream about. As was mentionned by others, can't tackle, etc.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.02.09 15:17:00 - [67] Edited by: Myra2007 on 09/02/2009 15:17:08 Originally by: Deschenus Maximus cough Step 1 - Switch out ANMF for AN Gamma Step 2 - Look at DPS graph Step 3 - Remove foot from mooth My laser Hype will flat out outdamage a Ion hype at all ranges starting at 18km. So your statement that null and mf are basically on par was a lie just like i stated. Thanks for clearing it up mate. :) Originally by: Deschenus Maximus And if you can't understand the value of an extra 23km engagement enveloppe, you're the one who's not worth bothering with. ROFLMAO. You have pitiful dps at that range and every amarr bs is gonna make you look like a ****. Use an amarr bs if you want to shoot people at range like i said. By your logic everyone would fit lasers or torps on everything. You do realize that their are other characteristics of a ship next to its optimal? Originally by:** Deschenus Maximus Like what exactly? Trying to keep other blaster bs at range (like hypes) because you're so fast and agile. Thinking that any ac pilot worth his salt will stay in falloff against a laser hype etc. Pretending that not fitting tackling gear is an advantage when it actually means you have to keep range under all circumstances. Because without a web you're so gonna get wasted once a hostile bs is close up. (i mean with that fitting obviously you gonna get wasted by the next thorax that is up close but nevermind) Talking about 2min cap stability not considering you don't start at 100% cap usually, you don't consider the mwd pulses to keep your range (which ofc always works, right), you don't consider the need for an extra med injector. Bascially to make a long story short everything what you said is nonsensical and pure eft comedy. Originally by: Deschenus Maximus No laser ship has 5 mids and an active tank bonus + a 100m3 drone bay. And thats what makes laser ships so good at what they're doing. You apparently do not understand laser ships and how to fit them at all. Btw paladin does have an active tank bonus. Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Oh and say hai to Megapulse Hyperion: Outdamages a Ion Hype starting at 14.5km. Hi lolfitting, how are you? And how much does it tank in comparison to your ion blaster hype? Yeah, yeah we're better not going into facts here because it would make you look like the idiot you are. Whatever if you or the other eft clowns here think that abomination is worth flying have fun getting owned again and again. k thx bye -- Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
Totally Mental	Posted - 2009.02.09 15:21:00 - [68] Na, boost Autocannons instead (especially large).
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.09 15:47:00 - [69] Originally by: Myra2007 So your statement that null and mf are basically on par was a lie just like i stated. Thanks for clearing it up mate. :) Sorry, I just naturally assumed that anyone who knows a goddamn thing would remember that lasers have different crystals. Apparently I should have made that clearer for ****s like you. Originally by:** Myra2007 ROFLMAO. You have pitiful dps at that range and every amarr bs is gonna make you look like a ****. Use an amarr bs if you want to shoot people at range like i said. 450 gun DPS at 40 km is better than you'll get with Null, and is plenty to nuke small things. And Amarr BS can't have MWD + Capt injector + dual ECCM + point. Plus they are slower. Originally by:** Myra2007 By your logic everyone would fit lasers or torps on everything. You do realize that their are other characteristics of a ship next to its optimal? Like speed, agility, number of midslots, drone bay size and all that jazz, right? Oh and I suppose you'd call anyone whow flies a neut + torp Rohk an idiot too, then? Originally by: Myra2007 Trying to keep other blaster bs at range (like hypes) because you're so fast and agile. It's faster than a plated blaster boat, and you can replace the tanking rigs with SMC to 1) stay faster and 2) have less problems with cap. Originally by: Myra2007 Thinking that any ac pilot worth his salt will stay in falloff against a laser hype etc. He might try to get under my guns, but I'm not going sit there and just let him. Yes minnie BS are faster, but not THAT much faster. And if he's plated + trimarked (as many Pest fits are), the Megapulse fit is faster. Besides, that's a problem all laser boats have. Not like it's an exclusive thing to a Laserion. Originally by: Myra2007 Pretending that not fitting tackling gear is an advantage when it actually means you have to keep range under all circumstances. Because without a web you're so gonna get wasted once a hostile bs is close up. (i mean with that fitting obviously you gonna get wasted by the next thorax that is up close but nevermind) And without ECCM I will die to the first guy with a Falcon alt I run into. That's MUCH more statisfying, amirite? Originally by: Myra2007 Talking about 2min cap stability not considering you don't start at 100% cap usually, you don't consider the mwd pulses to keep your range (which ofc always works, right), you don't consider the need for an extra med injector. And you consider I'm running all mods at all times, which I am not going to do. Originally by: Myra2007 And thats what makes laser ships so good at what they're doing. You apparently do not understand laser ships and how to fit them at all. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Originally by: Myra2007 Btw paladin does have an active tank bonus. Yes, because everyone PvPs with Paladins, rite? Originally by: Myra2007 Hi lolfitting, how are you? And how much does it tank in comparison to your ion blaster hype? Less, admitedly. I never claimed otherwise. Originally by: Myra2007 Yeah, yeah we're better not going into facts here because it would make you look like the idiot you are. Whatever if you or the other eft clowns here think that abomination is worth flying have fun getting owned again and again. k thx bye Bye bye, ****tard.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:58:00 - [70] I have seen some awesome fits that utterly own in actual BS combat in eve, and all of them are amarr ships with lasers fitted. Now the issue as far as im concerned is not nerfing amarr but making the other races less useless in the reality that is TQ pvp with BS. Assigning races "roles" to try and justify their overpowerdness or their uselessness is absurd considering the amount of time it takes to train each race. Now i doubt anybody is asking for blasters ect to be allowed to hit at 45km for 1000 raw dps like lasers can but when you consider they get a base dmg of around 30ish% more dmg than lasers at 4.5km, while lasers get 1000% more optimal with tank breaking dps things need fixing. A great idea was to meet halfway so that under 10km gallente still hit hardest, while from 10-20km both races are pretty much matched in raw dmg and over 20km gallente falloff in dmg to 0 gun dps at 27-30km while amarr continue on doing high dps out to 45km and then falloff. Now this is not a 1 v 1 scenario so those that with to start posts fits and bleating about tank ect please sod off now, this is about keeping amarr at the top as the best med range BS in the game while also being effective at close range just as they are now. But while also giving gallente a bit of a toe into the range outside 9km just like amarr have a toe and a good ability inside 10km. Deschenus Maximus has a great idea for this although i think we can both agree that testing would be required.

Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:19:00 - [71] Originally by: Murina Deschenus Maximus has a great idea for this although i think we can both agree that testing would be required. Indeed. I will write up something a little more indepth and post it once it's done.
Pupp3tMast3r	Posted - 2009.02.11 03:51:00 - [72] I'm starting to wonder how many of you actually PvP in Gal/Amarr bs's, because EFT numbers haven't been that significant in my experience. Usually when I pvp in a bs it's with a small gang- biggish fleet. In which case I'm either warping very close to the tackler, in which case range isn't really an issue where he's webbed/scrammed. Or I'm fighting on gates, either busting up a gate camp, or camping it myself, in which case Null ammo allows me to hit out 25+ km (without a very significant damage penalty). There are situations where amarr bs's outrange me- yes, but blasters aren't in near as bad as you people make it out to be. Also, it's funny how caldari/gal players ***** CONSTANTLY, when minmatar are still in worse shape, and don't complain half as much. And to the orignial poster, it's a nice idea, but you don't have a chance in hell of keeping cap stable. Especially if there are neuts involved (which there quite often are). Another thing, I still see plenty of megas being flown, even by pilots who can fly both gal and amarr fine (and quite often get top of the km). You all are clearly blowing this way out of proportion.. Gal/Caldari have been in great shape for a very long time as far as perceived balance goes, and I think it may just come as a shock to them that Amarr may be slightly ahead of them. And, most gal players I know say they haven't really felt affected by the speed nerf, as well as caldari raven pilots saying missiles are ok (is it so hard to fit a target painter). Ok, I'm done- feel free to tell how much of a noob I am ;).
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.11 04:15:00 - [73] Originally by: Pupp3tMast3r I'm starting to wonder how many of you actually PvP in Gal/Amarr bs's, because EFT numbers haven't been that significant in my experience. Usually when I pvp in a bs it's with a small gang- biggish fleet. In which case I'm either warping very close to the tackler, in which case range isn't really an issue where he's webbed/scrammed. Or I'm fighting on gates, either busting up a gate camp, or camping it myself, in which case Null ammo allows me to hit out 25+ km (without a very significant damage penalty). There are situations where amarr bs's outrange me- yes, but blasters aren't in near as bad as you people make it out to be. Also, it's funny how caldari/gal players ***** CONSTANTLY, when minmatar are still in worse shape, and don't complain half as much. And to the orignial poster, it's a nice idea, but you don't have a chance in hell of keeping cap stable. Especially if there are neuts involved (which there quite often are). Another thing, I still see plenty of megas being flown, even by pilots who can fly both gal and amarr fine (and quite often get top of the km). You all are clearly blowing this way out of proportion.. Gal/Caldari have been in great shape for a very long time as far as perceived balance goes, and I think it may just come as a shock to them that Amarr may be slightly ahead of them. And, most gal players I know say they haven't really felt affected by the speed nerf, as well as caldari raven pilots saying missiles are ok (is it so hard to fit a target painter). Ok, I'm done- feel free to tell how much of a noob I am ;). Ok, I just got to get this out of the way first: USE PARAGRAPHS!!! Now, you make some good points. Frankly, I would fly the Hype with blasters if it wasn't for the 8 billion Falcons flying around, forcing me to use ECCM instead of dual webs + scram. And to be frank, if I'm flying in a gang with a dedicated tackler, the Hype stays at home; the Aba (with dual ECCM) will be better in most circumstances.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.02.11 04:46:00 - [74] Edited by: fuxinos on 11/02/2009 04:49:32 Sometimes you guys realy are hilarious. First of all, Blasters dont need a trackingboost, since they already have high tracking and Large Blasters are not suppossed to hit Cruisers easily. This would kick Cruiser into "I am a useless ship, dont buy me zone" again. Same goes for Medium Blasters and Frigits. The only considerable thing that could be boosted is range, to put their Optimal in the middle of Autocannons and Lasers and kick away their huge Falloff. Anythingelse would be plain stupid in terms of balancing, since the only issue with Blasters still is their poor range. This game does not need the MWD + F1-F8 and forget gameplay that some of you clearly want.
mishkof Caldari Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2009.02.11 06:32:00 - [75] Dear CCP, Please keep pulses OP because I am almost done training them. kthx - mishy
Trader20	Posted - 2009.02.11 09:35:00 - [76] Blasters are fine, fit dual webs and stfu. Geez ur worse then the missile nerf whiners .
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.11 11:01:00 - [77] Originally by: Trader20 Blasters are fine, fit dual webs and stfu. Geez ur worse then the missile nerf whiners . Any ship with 3 or more mid slots can do that noob, this issue is larger than that and considerably more complicated. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Raging Knight Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.11 11:31:00 - [78] When the best blaster boat in the game is an interceptor, you know something isnt quite right. Hyperion would have been an awesome ship in 05/06, shame it wasnt around then. Blaster ships as a whole are kinda broken, diemos, astarte, megathron, hyperion. They still have that EFT damage, that looks nice, but never really the chance to use it, they just arent effective and die quick, people would rather doo 100-200 dps less and live longer and be able to dictate range. Nerfing lasers is not the answer though. I think fixing T2 ammo for all turrets would be a good start to balancing turrets. -RK
Antarus Lars	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:07:00 - [79] Originally by: Raging Knight When the best blaster boat in the game is an interceptor, you know something isnt quite right. Hyperion would have been an awesome ship in 05/06, shame it wasnt around then. Blaster ships as a whole are kinda broken, diemos, astarte, megathron, hyperion. They still have that EFT damage, that looks nice, but never really the chance to use it, they just arent effective and die quick, people would rather doo 100-200 dps less and live longer and be able to dictate range. Nerfing lasers is not the answer though. I think fixing T2 ammo for all turrets would be a good start to balancing turrets. -RK Personally i think it a problem with the ships themselfs... As close range monsters they need A = HP to take damage on approach & B = Speed to get close fast... Fundamentally these two things do not mix in any way shape or form.. For decent armour tank you either need passive (read plates & armour rigs), or active (armour rigs)... so basically your a big fat slow momma who wants to get close but cant in any decent time... Making gallente ships faster kills minmatar, and making there guns have too long range means they cross over to projectiles/lasers and would require a damage nerf... So basically... its a pain in a arse..... Give em a 25% range buff, only way that wudnt screw with too many other mechanics... and fix T2 ammo
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:09:00 - [80] Originally by: Antarus Lars Originally by: Raging Knight When the best blaster boat in the game is an interceptor, you know something isnt quite right. Hyperion would have been an awesome ship in 05/06, shame it wasnt around then. Blaster ships as a whole are kinda broken, diemos, astarte, megathron, hyperion. They still have that EFT damage, that looks nice, but never really the chance to use it, they just arent effective and die quick, people would rather doo 100-200 dps less and live longer and be able to dictate range. Nerfing lasers is not the answer though. I think fixing T2 ammo for all turrets would be a good start to balancing turrets. -RK Personally i think it a problem with the ships themselfs... As close range monsters they need A = HP to take damage on approach & B = Speed to get close fast... Fundamentally these two things do not mix in any way shape or form.. For decent armour tank you either need passive (read plates & armour rigs), or active (armour rigs)... so basically your a big fat slow momma who wants to get close but cant in any decent time... Making gallente ships faster kills minmatar, and making there guns have too long range means they cross over to projectiles/lasers and would require a damage nerf... So basically... its a pain in a arse..... Give em a 25% range buff, only way that wudnt screw with too many other mechanics... and fix T2 ammo The problem lies in part with the rigs' penalties. Switch them to a penalty to shield capacity, and voila, fixed.

Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:16:00 - [81] prjectiles need more of a boost then every other weapon type, stop complaining about blasters, atleast you are able to do serious dmg once you are close (and there are plenty of ways getting close, or nullify the enemies range advantage). projectiles dmg does not compare to other weapon types, projectiles fight in fall off mostly resuling in even more dmg lost and projectiles dont have any other advantages (like alpha, cap use or dmg type choice, because those are no real advantages in injected buffer omni tank setups you find everywhere)
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:25:00 - [82] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic prjectiles need more of a boost then every other weapon type, stop complaining about blasters, atleast you are able to do serious dmg once you are close (and there are plenty of ways getting close, or nullify the enemies range advantage). projectiles dmg does not compare to other weapon types, projectiles fight in fall off mostly resuling in even more dmg lost and projectiles dont have any other advantages (like alpha, cap use or dmg type choice, because those are no real advantages in injected buffer omni tank setups you find everywhere) I agree projectiles need help, but saying that because they might need more help than blasters means blasters are fine is stupid. "able to do serious dmg once you are close" doesn't happen most of the time because of the ** poor optimal and ** poor tracking once you actually get there.
Antarr Slagh Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:38:00 - [83] Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 11/02/2009 04:49:32 The only considerable thing that could be boosted is range, to put their Optimal in the middle of Autocannons and Lasers and kick away their huge Falloff. /signed
Gen Eisenhower Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:51:00 - [84] Sorry but so many bad ideas in this thread by mostly inexperienced people. I see the ac/blaster/lazer/missile matrix very well balanced. They are coupled by different ships and ship bonuses (or bonii) and should be coupled with different ways to fly them. Almost normalizing weapon ranges and attributes would kill much of the diversity that currently makes it worth to train for all of them.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:52:00 - [85] Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 11/02/2009 13:52:56 Originally by: Deschenus Maximus I agree projectiles need help, but saying that because they might need more help than blasters means blasters are fine is stupid. "able to do serious dmg once you are close" doesn't happen most of the time because of the ** poor optimal and ** poor tracking once you actually get there. yeah because you cant compare from 1vs1 perspective and this isnt a 1vs1 game, thus projectiles have priority. in gangs blasters are fine.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:01:00 - [86] Edited by: Murina on 11/02/2009 14:01:38 Amarr got a tracking buff not so long ago cos ppl were whining that they were having problems hitting with MF at closer ranges. And now they have the buff and have no problem hitting at closer ranges the amarr players among us are all about "roles" and other crap that they say should "limit" the other races ranges... BS pulse are now considerably more effective in the 0-15km range than blasters are in the 30-45km range or even the 15-30km range for that matter. This needs fixing. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
Gen Eisenhower Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:20:00 - [87] Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 11/02/2009 14:08:01 BS pulse are now considerably more effective in the 0-15km range than blasters are in the 30-45km range or even the 15-30km range for that matter. This needs fixing. Blaster have always been and always be the most effective in 0-15km. So you have a problem with lasers being slightly more effective 15-30km? Why would anyone ever use lasers over blasters if it didn't have at least this advantage. But since most blaster ships will have an mwd it's really not an issue if we think in 24km point range. It's funny how amarr is called fotm but you will still see more blasterboats out there many of them piloted by ppl with maxed amarr skills.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:25:00 - [88] Originally by: Gen Eisenhower Blaster have always been and always be the most effective in 0-15km. Blasters are "More effective" at 0-15 but lasers are also very effective at 0-15, while blasters have 0 effect at 30-45 and considerable less effect than lasers at 15-30,m in fact in a lot of cases 10-30. Originally by: Gen Eisenhower It's funny how amarr is called fotm but you will still see more blasterboats out there many of them piloted by ppl with maxed amarr skills. Most gallente BS pilots i know are training for amarr BS, and so am i for that matter. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
NightmareX Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.11 15:14:00 - [89] Originally by: Murina BLASTERS NEED MORE DMG FROM 9-20KM, AT LEAST MATCHING THAT OF LASERS. So you the smartypants are saying well yeah, boost Blasters because Lasers have a more range advantage?. Do you even know what will happen if Blasters get a boost?, yes Projectiles and Missiles will also need a boost then. So instead of doing it the hard way, then why not do the easy way of nerfing Lasers a bit then?. Also nerf 1 weapon instead of boosing 3 other weapon types. But hey, not that i have a problem with the range advantage Lasers are getting over Blasters and Projectiles, because Amarr ships are much much lesser movable than Minmatar and gallente ships. Specially in the BS classes. I fully see why Amarr BS'es have the range advantage on Lasers. And it should stay like that. And also..... BLASTERS DO NOT NEED A BOOST Check out my new flash web page 'Dark Paradise'
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.11 15:20:00 - [90] Originally by: NightmareX troll Go away. Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them



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