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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:20:00 -
[121]
It's from players believing they should be the deciding factor in what changes are implemented. You can see that just be looking at how the Assembly hall is used, with various players (not even CSM's) bringing up 'votes' and 'issues'. Hell, they even allowed me to post in there.
So we have a group of the playerbase that wants that authority to make the game as they see fit, and they think that the CSM's now have that authority. Which is where all the jealous hatred and rampaging comes along.
When, in all honesty, CSM's are just the players that have a 'bat phone' to developers ears concerning game direction and some breaking bugs. If they WERE the one's voting on whether a change is made or not, or whether a rework is done or not, it would be the quickest step to downfall a game producer has seen since SOE and SWG.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:25:00 -
[122]
Well, really. Where CSM has some degree of influence, that is how CCP prioritize their projects. By CSM bringing forward the players concerns, CCP knows what to focus on to make people happy.
Call that a PR stunt or whatever you want. I think that any direct feedback and conversation with the devs(Which is limited to one-way communication on the forum, mainly), it's largely beneficial.
CSM has no absolute influence. It should. Devs, in many cases, knows better. Of course, we can provide feedback and input on their ideas. But players should have no absolute influence. Not even elected players. CSM has indirect influence. CCP can do whatever they want with out feedback and the things we talk to them about. And I hope they take onboard our feedback, which they seem to do.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:27:00 -
[123]
Originally by: new york times
Hilmar Petursson, CCPÆs chief executive, said in a telephone interview. ôEve Online is not a computer game. It is an emerging nation, and we have to address it like a nation being accused of corruption...
where you announce your candidacy, and if you win the election, they come here to Iceland, and they can look at every nook and cranny and get to see that we are here to run this company on a professional basis
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:32:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: new york times
Hilmar Petursson, CCPÆs chief executive, said in a telephone interview. ôEve Online is not a computer game. It is an emerging nation, and we have to address it like a nation being accused of corruption...
where you announce your candidacy, and if you win the election, they come here to Iceland, and they can look at every nook and cranny and get to see that we are here to run this company on a professional basis
Yup, I'm with you on this one mate.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
isdisco3
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:40:00 -
[125]
Verone is representing his own viewpoint of the CSM, which is shared by a large portion of the playerbase. While I'm not as militantly anti-CSM, I do think that to this point it haven't yet earned my trust as a legitimate or worthwhile organization simply because it hasn't done much. I have a hard time trusting CCP would actually let the organization have 'full access' to their corporate goings-on, and I have a harder time still believing said organization would be able to adequately examine the goings-on (assuming their admission) because of all the squabbling and partisan shenanigans that go on constantly.
The factionalism predicted by Verone before the elections seems increasingly to be the reality, with each narrow shard caring solely about its own interests. The CSM has yet to do enough to warrant my trust or optimism in its capabilities.
To conclude, and in the interest of fairness, I am ex-veto and I like Verone. I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive and don't really help things, but I do think that Jade as an "elected official" (that 11% went pretty overwhelmingly for him) needs to learn PR and ignore such insults / abuses.
How can I be expected to support the CSM when its chair more than willingly enters in to a name-calling fest on the forums? I know its heresy to make RL to eve comparisons, but have you ever seen your President / Prime Minister get into a shouting match with a heckler?
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:45:00 -
[126]
Originally by: isdisco3 ....I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive....
I will point out here that the things I've said aren't against Jade, they're against the manner in which he is leading the CSM.
While I'm taking a shot at the way the CSM is being lead, I'm not taking a shot at him unless it's in self defense for the personal attacks being thrown at myself in response to my opinions.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:45:00 -
[127]
Hai Disco .
Originally by: isdisco3
How can I be expected to support the CSM when its chair more than willingly enters in to a name-calling fest on the forums? I know its heresy to make RL to eve comparisons, but have you ever seen your President / Prime Minister get into a shouting match with a heckler?
I agree. You can't.
And it has been pointed out so many times. It's quite tragic. But I think it's important to point out, just because he is the chairman, it doesn't mean he represent the CSM as a whole.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:55:00 -
[128]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Hai Disco .
Originally by: isdisco3
How can I be expected to support the CSM when its chair more than willingly enters in to a name-calling fest on the forums? I know its heresy to make RL to eve comparisons, but have you ever seen your President / Prime Minister get into a shouting match with a heckler?
I agree. You can't.
And it has been pointed out so many times. It's quite tragic. But I think it's important to point out, just because he is the chairman, it doesn't m ean he represent the CSM as a whole.
It should be noted however, that CSM members are Human, and are not paid enough to have to maintain some sort of Mother Teresa saintliness.
Most are simply slightly naive individuals who craved closer contact with ccp, wanted to make beer jokes with wrangler on the friday and simper up to Eris on the saturday.
They thought they would get a free holiday, maybe a ccp mug and bumbag (for sale 45.99 in the ccp online shop - reserve yours today) and come back home to tick a few boxes and fill in the paperwork.
Cunningly though, CCP turned them into a massive scapegoat. For the cost of a couple of plane tickets, they got the ultimate answer
CCP NERF THIS... speak to the CSM they are your elected gobetween
CCP FIX THIS... speak to the CSM they are your elected gobetween
No complaint about in game mechanics can now be leveled at CCP - As we have a player go between we should be speaking to.
ITs genius really, the CSM turned from a potentially awkward "corruption checking squad" (as CCP told the new york times it would be) to a nice Buffer Scapegoat between CCP and the militant playerbase.
SKUNK
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.02 18:58:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Le Skunk
"Truth" by SKUNK
Shame when you look at it that way, but it makes so much sense. So you've got a bunch of players blaming you for every bad thing happening? Why not let them vote for an imaginary office, then they can spend their time blaming other players?
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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Jinx Quin
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Posted - 2008.08.02 19:09:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
It means that I think you're probably a giant internet poseur who will shrivel up and hide in dark corners rather than come and share "your opinions" face to face in a bar Rule. :~
For the record, I'd like to state that RuleoftheBone is one of the scariest internet spaceship pilots I've ever met.
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Jinx Denton
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.02 19:11:00 -
[131]
Also, to the CSM: Make ccp fix the forums so my default posting character stops jumping all over the place.
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.08.02 19:13:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Jinx Denton Also, to the CSM: Make ccp fix the forums so my default posting character stops jumping all over the place.
We already whined about the forums.
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Jinx Denton
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.02 19:18:00 -
[133]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Jinx Denton Also, to the CSM: Make ccp fix the forums so my default posting character stops jumping all over the place.
We already whined about the forums.
That was my way of saying that the post by Jinx Quin was also mine.
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Doc Fury
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Posted - 2008.08.02 19:21:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Le Skunk
ITs genius really, the CSM turned from a potentially awkward "corruption checking squad" (as CCP told the new york times it would be) to a nice Buffer Scapegoat between CCP and the militant playerbase.
Indeed!
It will be very interesting to see if the CSM lasts long enough for another election to occur and if so, how many of the current representatives will be that interested in running for another term.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.02 19:58:00 -
[135]
All CSM did was add more politics to an already emotionally charged game for some people. I don't really think we needed that, and this thread just seems to prove that to me.
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Doya Lickalotapuss
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Posted - 2008.08.02 20:42:00 -
[136]
It's a freaking game. Chill out.
Doya
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Steiner
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.02 20:45:00 -
[137]
As a long standing fan of Jade I dig every thread that Jade makes a fool of her self. ---
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Tempus Iskander
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.02 21:01:00 -
[138]
Originally by: isdisco3 To conclude, and in the interest of fairness, I am ex-veto and I like Verone. I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive and don't really help things, but I do think that Jade as an "elected official" (that 11% went pretty overwhelmingly for him) needs to learn PR and ignore such insults / abuses.
Dude Verone comes across as a bitter old vet complaining he didn't get elected he's like goumindong really. You gotta expect the rough with the smooth if you get to attacking someone on teh forums.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.02 21:22:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Tempus Iskander
Originally by: isdisco3 To conclude, and in the interest of fairness, I am ex-veto and I like Verone. I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive and don't really help things, but I do think that Jade as an "elected official" (that 11% went pretty overwhelmingly for him) needs to learn PR and ignore such insults / abuses.
Dude Verone comes across as a bitter old vet complaining he didn't get elected he's like goumindong really. You gotta expect the rough with the smooth if you get to attacking someone on teh forums.
lol, I wasn't even in the running when the elections came around.... I pulled out VOLUNTARILY, off my own back after realising how utterly pointless the CSM would be.
Try again.
Also, post with your main.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Victor Valka
Caldari Kissaki Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.02 21:37:00 -
[140]
Thread delivers. LOLs are being had by onlookers.
Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.02 21:44:00 -
[141]
I pulled out 'voluntarily' too, but she still got pregnant. It must be the CSM's fault.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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Shaol Amathera
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Posted - 2008.08.02 22:20:00 -
[142]
I see a lot of extremely unprofessional and childish smack-talk coming from people who are supposed to be representatives of the playerbase to CCP. I expected better.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.02 22:25:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Jinx Quin
Originally by: Jade Constantine
It means that I think you're probably a giant internet poseur who will shrivel up and hide in dark corners rather than come and share "your opinions" face to face in a bar Rule. :~
For the record, I'd like to state that RuleoftheBone is one of the scariest internet spaceship pilots I've ever met.
Awwww shucks whoever you are .
No ransom discount though .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.02 22:26:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Shaol Amathera I see a lot of extremely unprofessional and childish smack-talk coming from people who are supposed to be representatives of the playerbase to CCP. I expected better.
Seems to me that our 'playerbase' is represented about right.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.02 22:50:00 -
[145]
Ha ha, oh wow. Thread delivers.
I don't much care about people or agendas on the forum, I am interested only in what is said. But I will remember Jade's posts in this thread ever time the CSM crosses my mind. -
DesuSigs |
Sergio Ling
Veto.
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Posted - 2008.08.02 23:06:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/08/2008 16:47:17
Originally by: Verone Awesome CSM front there Jade, awesome. A player voicing his concern and stating his opinion is a waste of time? Oh, hang on... wasn't the CSM supposed to listen to everyone? I believe you've just failed at the first hurdle, yet again. As for dropping out of the election, it's the best descision I ever made in Eve.
Actually Verone in this thread you are behaving like a "whiner" not a player. I'm happy to listen to players. I really don't care about "whiners" in the least. Your post above is just a lot of hot air and nonsense.
I'm gonna chime in at this point, and have my opinion invalidated because I'm likely seen as one of V's croneys We heve different opinions him and I, and we have some similar opinions. I've not even read the entire thread, but it got to this, and I'm a little shocked.
The leader of an elected body can come to virtual blows with one of the people he allegedly represents because he sees him as a whiner and not a player? Because you don't value the opinion of a person who is stating it, you get to dismiss it and ridicule it? You're simply reinforcing the calls of you being an agenda-driven power-mad spaceship captain. _
BET ISK ON ANYTHING AT ALL |
Olli Hokkanen
Full Life Alternative
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Posted - 2008.08.02 23:14:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Olli Hokkanen on 02/08/2008 23:15:31 OP: why dont you post with alt about it also nanoships were lame in past and will be in future also nanoships are lame in present
CSM system is good as it is now, agony is mad because they are so hated that no one of them was elected to be one
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.02 23:17:00 -
[148]
Honestly though... who cares if CSM is disbanded or not. What worries me the most is, as you say, 'sweeping massive changes'.
Changing things one step at a time;
first ship masses, review effect, did it help? Do we need to do more?
then max runtime for MWD & cool down timer, review effect, did it help? Do we need to do more?
then scripts for webbers () to optionally kill kinetic energy (stops glide out of range), review effect, did it help? Do we need to do more?
You get the idea. Why on earth would you want to change everything at once? It SO much more likely to bork the game.
As far as CSM goes, if they could influence the games lead designers to take an incremental keep it simple type approach I would vote for them. The politics and general forum stuff is.. whatever.
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Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.02 23:28:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Quote: And you want me to waste my time putting together proposals on the Assembly Hall, only for them to be knocked back because they don't fit with your agenda?
I don't really care what you do Verone. I lost all respect for you a while ago.
I can't believe I actually agree with Verone over something, but goddamn Jade, what a useless piece of shit you've been since being elected.
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Cheap Dude
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Posted - 2008.08.02 23:34:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Cheap Dude on 02/08/2008 23:35:10 This seems a good topic for a question for the CSM:
What are the plans for the industrials in EVE? If any, whats the eta (this year, next year, etc)? Any plans to bring back mining as a proper profession?
To state my concern about the CSM as a normal player:
The only moment I ever heard about you guys/girls was the list made my CCP what was talked about where things got priotized. I really hoped you guys would talk about 'higher' plans for EVE.
I know how difficult the position is and what burden you must carry, all players have some whished they liked to be seen done but you can't make everybody happy. But my personal whishlist is an industrial expansion and mining a decent profession (stop handing out minerals to ratters )
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