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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 27 post(s)
Phoenix Torp Caldari Kingmakers	Posted - 2009.02.23 22:57:00 - [391] What's the required distance from the point to be warpable? I have tested with only 1 probe and my record has been 6910km, so if i see it's enough then i can deploy the other 3 probes ------ Skills
Col Callahan Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.23 23:29:00 - [392] Edited by: Col Callahan on 23/02/2009 23:29:16 WTB, Stable scanning SISI Build. Is that so much to ask 2 weeks before deployment. Apparently so.
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.24 01:04:00 - [393] I've got 5 probes bracketing a Cosmic Signature at .25 AU scan radius and all I get are 5 separate entries in the list. Nearly max skills+ a rigged covops with a PPH-2 implant. Scan ranges seem to be incorrect also- I randomly seem to get wacky ranges that are well outside any active probe's scan range- like 66 AU away with a probe range set to .5 AU. Haven't managed to find a single site yet. Corp killboard
Vladtime	Posted - 2009.02.24 01:53:00 - [394] For the problem on not being able to warp to a spot. I find that when your scanning and you get a signature for each probe then your probes are too close together and the game considers each probe on top of each other. If you get to 0.25 scan range and you can't get any closer, move some of the probes out a bit and it then collapses to one spot that you can warp to.
Mashimara	Posted - 2009.02.24 04:30:00 - [395] Originally by: Jimer Lins I've got 5 probes bracketing a Cosmic Signature at .25 AU scan radius and all I get are 5 separate entries in the list. Nearly max skills+ a rigged covops with a PPH-2 implant. Scan ranges seem to be incorrect also- I randomly seem to get wacky ranges that are well outside any active probe's scan range- like 66 AU away with a probe range set to .5 AU. Haven't managed to find a single site yet. Scanning is working JUST FINE on SISI. The only thing that is not "working" are the graphic results. Triangulation is also working correctly. If you guys are going to be testing, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go BACK to school, or Google, and learn 3D geometry and 3D triangulation and HOW it works. Once you know how the MATH works, THEN you can be qualifie to say if its working or not. Which I feel most of you do not even understand the math involved to yield a result. Not insulting anyone, just stating a fact.
Saviron No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.02.24 04:51:00 - [396] Originally by: Mashimara Originally by: Jimer Lins I've got 5 probes bracketing a Cosmic Signature at .25 AU scan radius and all I get are 5 separate entries in the list. Nearly max skills+ a rigged covops with a PPH-2 implant. Scan ranges seem to be incorrect also- I randomly seem to get wacky ranges that are well outside any active probe's scan range- like 66 AU away with a probe range set to .5 AU. Haven't managed to find a single site yet. Scanning is working JUST FINE on SISI. The only thing that is not "working" are the graphic results. Triangulation is also working correctly. If you guys are going to be testing, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go BACK to school, or Google, and learn 3D geometry and 3D triangulation and HOW it works. Once you know how the MATH works, THEN you can be qualifie to say if its working or not. Which I feel most of you do not even understand the math involved to yield a result. Not insulting anyone, just stating a fact. Agree. I've already found 5 wormholes, on the current build after playing for < 2 hrs. You guys should at least know what triangulation is before you say that it doesn't work. The only thing that NEEDS to be fixed are the issues with clicking like planets and stuff. I would actually prefer that the stupid visual markers stay removed as it requires more actual player skill to probe something down without them.
Miss Moonwych Formedian Shadows	Posted - 2009.02.24 05:25:00 - [397] Originally by: Saviron I've already found 5 wormholes, on the current build after playing for < 2 hrs. You guys should at least know what triangulation is before you say that it doesn't work. The only thing that NEEDS to be fixed are the issues with clicking like planets and stuff. I would actually prefer that the stupid visual markers stay removed as it requires more actual player skill to probe something down without them. Just to clarify (this has been mentioned before but doesn't hurt to do again): Eve Sisi doesn't use triangulation but trilateration. There is quite a big difference: angles vs. distances. Regards, M.M.
FeralShadow Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.24 07:13:00 - [398] Here's a suggestion: When probing today I found it was sometimes difficult to discern where the probe fields overlapped, making it sometimes difficult to "quadriangulate" the probes in the overlapped region. What if the probe field indicators were changed to different colors? Like the probe 1 field would be red, the probe 2 field would be blue, probe 3 would be green, probe 4 would be orange. That would make it much easier to actually see the overlapped region you want to work on. Yes? -Feral _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura -CDS Now Taking Contracts-
RadHard	Posted - 2009.02.24 07:21:00 - [399] Sorry, haven't time to read thru all of the posts in new thread, but havent you thinking about implementing adjustable scanning time to increase the probe strenght just slightly ? Like when you set longer exposure on a photo camera. Even small bonus like 1% per step could be nice and make the next time step to always be twice the previous. 10sec base,then 20, 40, 80, 160seconds and so on. Rad
Cheryl Zitrone	Posted - 2009.02.24 07:57:00 - [400] Edited by: Cheryl Zitrone on 24/02/2009 08:01:21 Dont bother with scanning until a new patch. No matter what anyone says about being able to get a warp thing and warping to it and haing a grand old time, its a lie. I spent almost the entire probes one hour duration to get 4 probes down to a single 100% strength 25 au distance mark, and it was NOT warpable. Here is my screenshot as imageshack told me to post it. Hope it works. http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brokenscan.jpg
Phoenix Torp Caldari Kingmakers	Posted - 2009.02.24 08:22:00 - [401] Originally by: Cheryl Zitrone Edited by: Cheryl Zitrone on 24/02/2009 08:01:21 Dont bother with scanning until a new patch. No matter what anyone says about being able to get a warp thing and warping to it and haing a grand old time, its a lie. I spent almost the entire probes one hour duration to get 4 probes down to a single 100% strength 25 au distance mark, and it was NOT warpable. Here is my screenshot as imageshack told me to post it. Hope it works. http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brokenscan.jpg There only appears a result with 100%. And another question: how can be possible that your Distance is 25.336AU if the probes are set to 0.25AU? I thought the distance was from the probe to the exact point where the signature / anomally is (yesterday i scanned an anomaly in the system where i was ). BTW, if when you scan only appear anomallies means there are no sites/wormholes in the sytem, right? ------ Skills
Mashimara	Posted - 2009.02.24 08:31:00 - [402] Originally by: Phoenix Torp Originally by: Cheryl Zitrone Edited by: Cheryl Zitrone on 24/02/2009 08:01:21 Dont bother with scanning until a new patch. No matter what anyone says about being able to get a warp thing and warping to it and haing a grand old time, its a lie. I spent almost the entire probes one hour duration to get 4 probes down to a single 100% strength 25 au distance mark, and it was NOT warpable. Here is my screenshot as imageshack told me to post it. Hope it works. http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brokenscan.jpg There only appears a result with 100%. And another question: how can be possible that your Distance is 25.336AU if the probes are set to 0.25AU? I thought the distance was from the probe to the exact point where the signature / anomally is (yesterday i scanned an anomaly in the system where i was ). BTW, if when you scan only appear anomallies means there are no sites/wormholes in the sytem, right? Correct
Smurfprime	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:18:00 - [403] Edited by: Smurfprime on 24/02/2009 09:25:01 Originally by: Mashimara Scanning is working JUST FINE on SISI. The only thing that is not "working" are the graphic results. Triangulation is also working correctly. If you guys are going to be testing, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go BACK to school, or Google, and learn 3D geometry and 3D triangulation and HOW it works. Once you know how the MATH works, THEN you can be qualifie to say if its working or not. Which I feel most of you do not even understand the math involved to yield a result. Not insulting anyone, just stating a fact. I spent hours tracking down a site, I had 4 probes with 100% strength and still did not get a warpable target. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=jt172r&s=5 That is not -just fine- at all. That is broken.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:18:00 - [404] Originally by: Cheryl Zitrone No matter what anyone says about being able to get a warp thing and warping to it and haing a grand old time, its a lie. No matter what anyone says about not being able to get a warp thing and warping to it, it's a troll. I suggest you guys study the devs post at the start of this thread and ...err... learn. If the system is so complex that some people don't get it, I think that it's doing at least ONE of the things it was meant to be, i.e. selecting by player skill.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:24:00 - [405] Edited by: Space Wanderer on 24/02/2009 09:25:31 Originally by: Smurfprime I spent hours tracking down a site, I had 4 probes with 100% strength I assume that means that you got 4 signals with 100% intensity. There lies your mistake. More to be found in devs posts in this same thread. Quote: That is not -just fine- at all. That is broken. Works perfectly fine (except for the map), if you know what you are doing. Anyway I love this feedback, shows that the new system is complex enough to actually involve some player skill into exploration.
Smurfprime	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:27:00 - [406] Edited by: Smurfprime on 24/02/2009 09:33:17 Originally by: Space Wanderer Edited by: Space Wanderer on 24/02/2009 09:25:31 Originally by: Smurfprime I spent hours tracking down a site, I had 4 probes with 100% strength I assume that means that you got 4 signals with 100% intensity. There lies your mistake. More to be found in devs posts in this same thread. Quote: That is not -just fine- at all. That is broken. Works perfectly fine (except for the map), if you know what you are doing. Anyway I love this feedback, shows that the new system is complex enough to actually involve some player skill into exploration. No, I had 4 probes with 100% on the same target. No warp. How about you contribute an actual answer as to why this not working then.
Phoenix Torp Caldari Kingmakers	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:44:00 - [407] Originally by: Smurfprime Edited by: Smurfprime on 24/02/2009 09:25:01 I spent hours tracking down a site, I had 4 probes with 100% strength and still did not get a warpable target. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=jt172r&s=5 That is not -just fine- at all. That is broken. Seeing that the fantastic Space Wanderer is 'so smart' to not explain which can be the error, I would say you to try get the 4 probes near of 500km, like the classic system. It's the unique reason I can find out to not get a warpable result. I doubt about that by the fact than the so 'talked' triangulation is not real but well... If someone not so 'smart' would explain it should help. ------ Skills
Smurfprime	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:53:00 - [408] Originally by: Phoenix Torp Seeing that the fantastic Space Wanderer is 'so smart' to not explain which can be the error, I would say you to try get the 4 probes near of 500km, like the classic system. It's the unique reason I can find out to not get a warpable result. I doubt about that by the fact than the so 'talked' triangulation is not real but well... If someone not so 'smart' would explain it should help. Thank you Phoenix, at least you can give an answer that is not just useless trolling snark. By the time you get to a range close enough to get a high signal strength all the of probes are practically on top of each other, and it becomes very hard to see past the damn cubes to actually move them in any closer. Especially with the map being screwed up and having to repeatedly relog to clear the bug, this is a total pain. Now if someone who is getting this to work wants to contribute an actual answer as to why this is not working that would be great.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:56:00 - [409] Originally by: Miss Moonwych Eve Sisi doesn't use triangulation but trilateration. There is quite a big difference: angles vs. distances. That's correct. Also, I think I understand why devs chose trilateration insted of triangulation. Information about angles give you information about 2 degrees of freedom, while trilateration gives you info about only one degree of freedom (a point in 3D space has only three degrees of freedom). Basically that means that using trilateration is harder and longer than triangulation. Which is perfectly fine for me.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:07:00 - [410] Edited by: Space Wanderer on 24/02/2009 10:08:20 Originally by: Phoenix Torp Seeing that the fantastic Space Wanderer is 'so smart' to not explain which can be the error, groan... Yes, I am "smart" enough to read devs post in the first page of this thread, how clever of me! Originally by: CCP Greyscale Also, you do have to triangulate - there are measures in place to stop you cheating and dropping four probes in the same spot :) You guys just bumped into one of those measures... Now, would you read the _huge_ amount of information in this thread, before dropping more noise in the thread?
Smurfprime	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:12:00 - [411] Originally by: Space Wanderer You guys just bumped into one of those measures... Now, would you read the _huge_ amount of information in this thread, before dropping more noise in the thread? The signals did not collapse into each other as was described for when this "measure" takes place I had four distinct hits at 100% each.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:21:00 - [412] Edited by: Space Wanderer on 24/02/2009 10:22:15 Originally by: Smurfprime The signals did not collapse into each other as was described for when this "measure" takes place I had four distinct hits at 100% each. That's exactly the point of the measures. Possibly the term "collapse" is used incorrectly, and a more intuitive substitute should be employed. When probes are correctly placed, 4 of them give you ONLY ONE signal, and if its sig str is 100% you can warp to it. But when they are very incorrectly placed, the "measures" kick in and you get are just 4 separate signals from single probes, which are not warpable. All this is explained in many messages of this thread.
Neddy Fox Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:24:00 - [413] It might work for some, but since the map is borked I do not see any results (no circles, spheres or dots). I managed to get one probe near a result shifting it constantly, only to find out that each click gives a different range ! Between .2 and 2.5 AU for every click. Impossible to get your probe on top of a result. Space Wonderer, you managed to get things working. I'd like to learn what you do to get close to the first "result", if you can't see it? ---- [PXIN Recruiter] PXIN Recruitement thread
Phoenix Torp Caldari Kingmakers	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:25:00 - [414] Edited by: Phoenix Torp on 24/02/2009 10:26:43 Originally by: Space Wanderer Edited by: Space Wanderer on 24/02/2009 10:08:20 Originally by: Phoenix Torp Seeing that the fantastic Space Wanderer is 'so smart' to not explain which can be the error, groan... Yes, I am "smart" enough to read devs post in the first page of this thread, how clever of me! Originally by: CCP Greyscale Also, you do have to triangulate - there are measures in place to stop you cheating and dropping four probes in the same spot :) You guys just bumped into one of those measures... Now, would you read the _huge_ amount of information in this thread, before dropping more noise in the thread? You see how you can also put some post not noisy? Has been so hard? Smurfprime see this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateration Seeing that picture think we need to do a "pyramid with circular-edged" shape, having 3 probes in z=0 and a fourth upwards. Will try this evening. Hope will work. And Wanderer, I have read the full thread. Half of which, incidentally, speaks of triangulization, not of trilateration ------ Skills
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:36:00 - [415] Originally by: Neddy Fox Space Wonderer, you managed to get things working. I'd like to learn what you do to get close to the first "result", if you can't see it? This guide should be in this thread, so quoting it here: Originally by: Miss Moonwych The only thing that worked for me was the following (about 5-10 min to find a site) - Make sure you don't click on anything fixed in the solar map and you have all turned off in solar map settings - Drop one core probe and scan (32AU) to see if there is anything interesting - If there is, change to smaller range step by step. What you want is to make sure you have the sig within 4-8 AU. Move probe to other planets if this isn't the case yet - Assuming you have the probe at say 4 AU (and the target still in it), move it in exactly one direction about 1/4th or 1/3rd of its range: so move in one of three dimensions. And scan. If the sig strength is lower move the other way otherwise keep moving. - Do this until you have found a "sweet spot" in that dimension: you cannot get it much higher. Tweak it as much as you can but only in that dimension. - Now do the other 2 dimensions. You will end up in a single probe that is very close to the target. Change it to 0.5 or 1.0 AU (depending on sig strength, make sure its above 100%) - Add 4 core probes around the first probe, turn off the first one and scan. If you've done it correctly you should have a warpable target (might require some repositioning due to too much lineup of probes with the target etc) But the fact you cannot center the camera is quite annoying. Regards, M.M. Just let me point out that you don't have to look at distance, as it suffers from deviation. Sig str is what you have to observe. For CCP greyscale: when this thing goes live you might want to add the same amount of deviation to displayed sig str, not only to distance. Otherwise people will be able to circumvent deviation on showed distance by watching the sig str.
Neddy Fox Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:38:00 - [416] Ah thx m8. I indeed only looked at distance, and tried to get the first probe as close as possible. Will test in QR DT. ---- [PXIN Recruiter] PXIN Recruitement thread
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:44:00 - [417] Originally by: Phoenix Torp You see how you can also put some post not noisy? Has been so hard? The post you mention IS just added noise which does not help devs with feedback, since that stuff has already been discussed ad nauseam. Quote: And Wanderer, I have read the full thread. Half of which, incidentally, speaks of triangulization, not of trilateration That is perfectly correct, and I guess that it could be blamed on greyscale who spoke of "triangulation". But, in one respect he is perfectly right, since the "measures" he speak of are based on angles, which have more sense with triangulation than trilateration. So in reality the system is a mix of both, since to get a good scan you have both to triangulate and trilaterate.
Telgo Gebler Gallente Ihatalo Cartel Academy Ihatalo Cartel Navy	Posted - 2009.02.24 11:28:00 - [418] Edited by: Telgo Gebler on 24/02/2009 11:33:51 Edited by: Telgo Gebler on 24/02/2009 11:32:59 Here is a video I made of me finding a site today. Sorry it's fuzzy and it's 30 minutes long and about 80MB. The points to take from this video: The four probes taking the measurement don't have to be that close, I had them all between .14 and .2 AU. Only the "finder" probe has to be close. I got that within 8 million kms. Just make sure the other four probes don't step on each other, I put them in as close to a square as I could get around the site. First I put one directly above the site, then I put the other the same distance directly below it. The I arbitrarily picked a direction to call behind and put one the same distance behind the site as the first two were above and below. Then I put one the same distance ahead of the site as the other three were above, below, and behind. The secret is knowing exactly where the site is before you place the other probes (8 million kilometers counts as exact, it's only .05AU). New Scan System.avi -Telgo
Smurfprime	Posted - 2009.02.24 11:31:00 - [419] Originally by: Phoenix Torp Smurfprime see this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateration Seeing that picture think we need to do a "pyramid with circular-edged" shape, having 3 probes in z=0 and a fourth upwards. Will try this evening. Hope will work. Thank you for this useful description. Not to split hairs though, this is technically quadlateration, since a fourth signal point is required to calculate the z axis.
Jifai	Posted - 2009.02.24 13:58:00 - [420] Originally by: Saviron Agree. I've already found 5 wormholes, on the current build after playing for < 2 hrs. You guys should at least know what triangulation is before you say that it doesn't work. The only thing that NEEDS to be fixed are the issues with clicking like planets and stuff. I would actually prefer that the stupid visual markers stay removed as it requires more actual player skill to probe something down without them. Absolutely! Or as they say around here, quoted for truth. The latest whinage proves the design. I heard this patch is past feature freeze so probing can't get dumbed down too far for this release. whew. Clicking map icons and probe recovery are only issues that matter atm. Working group and type fields on scan window would be handy but are not required. One UI annoyance is when I hit scan with no probes selected and have to wait 30 secs for the on-board scanner to run. Somehow seperating on-board scanner startup from probe re-scan button would be nice. I noticed the wormholes have a timer to slow down a pilot that just wants to expire the wh by jumping back and forth.

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