| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 20 30 .. 33 :: one page |
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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Prometheus Exenthal
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:54:00 -
[451]
probing is entirely broken at the moment.
I figured out how to get my move-cubes up (deactivate all but the probe you want to move), and then individually got all 4 of my probes within 0.25AU of the same 100% signal. Reactivated all 4 probes, did a scan, 1 result, 100%, cant warp to it.
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MY LATEST VIDEO - FRIGANK 4 |
Hoshi
Eviction.
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:30:00 -
[452]
 Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 24/02/2009 22:07:55
probing is entirely broken at the moment.
I figured out how to get my move-cubes up (deactivate all but the probe you want to move), and then individually got all 4 of my probes within 0.25AU of the same 100% signal. Reactivated all 4 probes, did a scan, 1 result, 100%, cant warp to it.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/pyro5hit9rind/probe1.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/pyro5hit9rind/probe2.jpg
As you can see, all my probes are damn close and are surrounding the anomaly. Still can't warp to it.
Your probes are too close to each other, if the angle between the probes relative to the site is less than 30 degrees the probes will stop working toghther and just give individual results, this can be seen in the results window as you have 4 results there instead of 1.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Saviron
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:34:00 -
[453]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: FourDrink Minimum
OK, I played around with the scanning system and figured out how it works.
Some feedback: The new scanning system is difficult and frustrating to learn. Things don't work very intuitively, but once you figure it out, it pays off. Once I figured out how the scanning works and why I sometimes got fewer results than I thought I should have, I started to enjoy it. Its a fun mini-game with significant payoffs. As soon as the solar system map bugs are fixed, it'll be a lot better.
I'll say it again, Darwinian Scanning. Bugs not withstanding, the smarter player has an edge over the not so smart player.
The current system will set the skill ceiling to a certain point where "explorers" or whatever would actually become a viable profession due to its difficulty. And like Fourdrink said, it does really start to get fun once you understand what you are doing. I really hope that CCP won't just bring back the colored icons so that any noob with a probe launcher can scan down a wormhole.
Don't cave to the whiners.
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AtlantisX
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:43:00 -
[454]
I'd like to echo the sentiments of the poster above. At first I was wishing the colored icons and dots would return, but upon playing around with the system as it currently is, I find it not THAT bad.
It's a challenge, and there are ways to make things easier. But making it too easy defeats the point of probing. It should be a challenge.
It took me about 90 mins to find my first site. By my 5th I had it down to 15 mins, and I'm sure it could be done even faster. It's hard.... but a long way off impossible.
In short, fix the bugs, leave out marker points and keep exploration challenging and skillfull.
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Car Wars
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:53:00 -
[455]
question at ccp:
why this changing skills crap? ->
Astrometric triangulation (rank 5): reduces scan duration by 10% per level (old Signal Acquisition skill)
Signal Acquisition (rank 8): Increases probe strength by 5% per level (old Astrometric triangulation skill)
I do not train a rank 8 skill to 5 to get shafted by some creep at ccp. I trained it to scan nme not to do carebear stuff and fuzzy about with plexes and wormholes...
Next your gonna change dreadnaught 5 into a frigate related skill? totally pointless and unneeded change.
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Agrilad
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Posted - 2009.02.24 23:27:00 -
[456]
Fun bug. I'll bring up log server and such after work to do proper testing and bug reporting on it.
un check all probes, hit scan. 30 second timer starts. :p
My normal time is very low
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Hoshi
Eviction.
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Posted - 2009.02.24 23:28:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Car Wars
question at ccp:
why this changing skills crap? ->
Astrometric triangulation (rank 5): reduces scan duration by 10% per level (old Signal Acquisition skill)
Signal Acquisition (rank 8): Increases probe strength by 5% per level (old Astrometric triangulation skill)
I do not train a rank 8 skill to 5 to get shafted by some creep at ccp. I trained it to scan nme not to do carebear stuff and fuzzy about with plexes and wormholes...
Next your gonna change dreadnaught 5 into a frigate related skill? totally pointless and unneeded change.
The old Signal Acquisition skill have been renamed Astrometric Triangulation and given the bonus 10% increase to scan probe strength per level. This is a fairly important bonus for pvp as well. Without it there are several kind of ships that you just can't locate. This includes for example most t2 frigates.
The old Astrometric Triangulation skill has been renamed Astrometric Acquisition and now give 10% reduction in scan probe scan time per level. This is fairly unimportant as the base scan time is just 10 sec (most of the time is spent moving probes around not watching the scan timer).
I fail to see how you have been shafted here, the most important skill pre patch is still the most important skill post patch.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Sigras
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Posted - 2009.02.25 00:21:00 -
[458]
does anyone know what the signal strength means?
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ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.25 01:46:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Sigras
does anyone know what the signal strength means?
means how strong the signal is. Scan system is a bit broken atm only one probe shows, map screwy, probes ignoring commands and vanishing, waiting for a working system
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Sfynx
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.25 01:46:00 -
[460]
Edited by: Sfynx on 25/02/2009 01:47:34
Ok, at first I thought 'wth no location hints anymore, how am I ever going to find those big bad Sleepers now'... Tried it anyway, my first attempt to find a wormhole with this new mechanic took me somewhat more than 30 minutes, but that's including the 'figuring out what I'm doing wrong' part.
With some practice sessions that time should come down significantly. At least this added difficulty would make finding sites a little more special so that specializing in it actually means something.
At this moment I actually don't even know if the absence of the preliminary result markers is a bug or not , but it isn't as bad as I first thought... by using your brain a bit more it is doable. Make sure you have a spare mouse though due to wear and tear 
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ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.25 01:57:00 -
[461]
about 3 out of 10 aspects in this currnet build are broken ill try after todays patch
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar
Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.25 02:45:00 -
[462]
Originally by: AtlantisX
I'd like to echo the sentiments of the poster above. At first I was wishing the colored icons and dots would return, but upon playing around with the system as it currently is, I find it not THAT bad.
It's a challenge, and there are ways to make things easier. But making it too easy defeats the point of probing. It should be a challenge.
It took me about 90 mins to find my first site. By my 5th I had it down to 15 mins, and I'm sure it could be done even faster. It's hard.... but a long way off impossible.
In short, fix the bugs, leave out marker points and keep exploration challenging and skillfull.
I don't really have a major problem with the current mechanic either since I don't often scan for ships. Those that do are completely screwed. 15min to find and enemy ship is simply not going to fly.
Perhaps there needs to be a separate mechanic for ship scanning vs signature scanning? As it is currently, if you make scanning easier so you can scan down ships, scanning for sigs is trivial. If you make scanning for sigs harder, the ship scanners get hosed.
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Mashimara
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Posted - 2009.02.25 03:18:00 -
[463]
I would REALLY like to see an additional icon on the probe UI. Move probes. I do NOT want to be forced to start scanning after I move my probes. Some times you need to see just where your probes are after you have moved them. I think it would be a good move.
Plus, can we get a time frame on when recall probes and probe results are going to be returning please.
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Kurak Vand
Minmatar
Darkstorm Command
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.02.25 04:01:00 -
[464]
The map is broken, I can't exit the map, the close map button is not doing anything. Clicking the map icon in the scanner goes to the map screen with a 'progress bar' that endlessly updates, ctrl q are the only fixes.
Fly somewhat less than safe |
Komi Toran
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Posted - 2009.02.25 04:36:00 -
[465]
I also like the new system, but I would like two changes:
1) At some point, when we get within, say, 4AU of the thing, let us know what KIND of site it is, please. I really do not want to waste too much time on gravimetric/ladar sites when I don't have the equipment to capitalize on them and I'm looking for radar/magnetometric ones. The mystery was justifiable when scanning was almost instantaneous. But now that it actually takes work to find the sites, this should be fixed.
2) Let us know which probe is which in the results area. It would be nice to know that I'm moving the probe that is 0.5 AU away, and not the one that is 0.05AU away.
Other than that, I like.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.25 04:38:00 -
[466]
Probing is broken even worse than it was before. This is not a good sign for the quality of the release.
Corp killboard
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Telgo Gebler
Gallente
Ihatalo Cartel Academy
Ihatalo Cartel Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.25 04:57:00 -
[467]
Edited by: Telgo Gebler on 25/02/2009 05:00:38
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert
Edited by: Jonathan Calvert on 24/02/2009 18:37:58
Edited by: Jonathan Calvert on 24/02/2009 18:21:25
Edit: following is a bunch of stuff i wrote before reading the last few pages where people basically said the same thing. Feel free to skip my post.
Wow, scanning is so fracked up. Is there some instructions on how its supposed to work, so we can determine if it isnt working? At this point its like asking us to test the space shuttle to see if it works. Tell me if this is right.
1. Launch a probe, set to 32au, scan.
2. Get a weak hit, 30au distance.
3. move your probe around till strength increases, distance decreased.
4. reduce probe range to 16au, get a better hit, 8au distance
5. reduce to 8au, move probe around till you get 4 au, 2au, etc
6. get 100% hit
7. move another probe in place, repeat above.
8. 4 hits, 100%, all in same place, <.5au distance
9. then what? no warp to, no visual cues
I just did this. Except i had to mess around so much just to get probes to show up and figure out where they were. What does a strength and distance mean? Which probe has the hit? It is so totally fracked its like reverse engineering water.
At this point, the old scanning system is better. I hope CCP has a way to simply add wormholes to the cosmic signature list and use the old system.
Up to 6 is good, but after that you are leaving out steps
7) Keep moving first probe until the distance shows in kilometers instead of AU
At this point that probe is basically indicating the site's exact location, to the limit of what the map is capable of showing at the maximum zoom level.
8) Launch another probe, set it to .25AU and put .1 to .2 AU's away from probe 1 directly along one of probe 1's axes.
9) Deactivate the second probe (not strictly necessary, but reduces clutter). Launch a third probe, set it to .25AU and put it on the opposite axis to probe 2, about the same distance away as probe 2 was from probe 1. Now you will have this arrangement of probes:
2
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1
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3
10) Pick another axis and repeat steps 8 & 9 with two more probes. Now you will have this arrangement (ignore the asterisks they are for the note I am putting on the bottom):
2
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*|*
4--1--5
*|*
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3
11) Deactivate probe 1 and reactive probes 2, 3, and 4. (5 should still be active from moving it in place).
12) Run a scan, you should get a warp point.
Important things to note: Only one probe has to be right on top of the site, and that one won't actually be used to get a warp point. It is just being used as a marker so you know exactly where to put the other four probes (which will get the actual warp point). The other four probes don't have to be right on top of it, just close enough to get a 100% hit; in fact it is bad for them to be too close to the site because it makes it harder to estimate the angles of all the probes to each other if they are too close. I think this is were most people are messing up. Each of the asterisks in the graph above represents an approximately 90 degree angle between two probes with the site as the angle's vortex. If one of those angles is to low (somebody said 30 degrees) you won't get a result. That's why you have to know exactly where the site is before you place your four probes, you have to be able to visualize the angles formed by the probes and the site.
It is also important to only have one probe out while you are locating the site. If you have a second probe it will just confuse things and slow you down. Once you know where the site is, then send out more probes to get a warp point.
-Telgo
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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.02.25 05:09:00 -
[468]
ok . . . i understand that the signature strength means the strength of the signal :p but what is the significance of that if i cannot warp to a 100% signal strength target?
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Insong Whang
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Posted - 2009.02.25 05:46:00 -
[469]
Telgo, that makes a lot of sense=) i was dead tired yesterday when i first tried to scan with no results at all. Will try that way today
Cheers O/
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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.02.25 05:47:00 -
[470]
ohhh . . . thanks; ill have to try that when i get home . . . stupid work . . .
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Telgo Gebler
Gallente
Ihatalo Cartel Academy
Ihatalo Cartel Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.25 05:58:00 -
[471]
Edited by: Telgo Gebler on 25/02/2009 06:01:57
Edited by: Telgo Gebler on 25/02/2009 06:01:34
Originally by: Sigras
ok . . . i understand that the signature strength means the strength of the signal :p but what is the significance of that if i cannot warp to a 100% signal strength target?
It's basically giving you a rough estimate of how close you are. If the signal strength is under 100% the distance will always be wrong, but you can still get the probe close by tracking changes in signal strength. Once you get the signal strength to 100, the distance will always be exactly right. But you need more than just distance; say the distance is .20AU; that gives you a sphere with a surface area of 11 quadrillion square kilometers. I didn't make that number up, that's the actual figure. Not exactly a useful warp point. So you need to get four probes to 100% so that you get four spheres, the warp point is where the spheres come together. But you also need to get the four spheres lined up properly relative to the site, otherwise the spheres don't intersect properly.
PS, a couple of pages ago is a link to a (long :( ) video I made of me using the system I outlined above. Just keep in mind that that is only the third site I tracked down, so I have a lot of wasted moves/scans. I am tracking one down now and it is definitely taking less time (adjusting for the map bugs ..argh)
-Telgo
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Caile Sathinor
Gallente
No Quarter.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.02.25 06:11:00 -
[472]
Edited by: Caile Sathinor on 25/02/2009 06:13:43
Definitely loving the new system. It keeps me engaged rather than "Hit button, receive bacon" and it's enjoyable once you get a grasp of what's going on.
Some bugs I've noticed:
-"False" results. Scanned down two separate cosmic sigs in a system today (opposite ends of the system. Quite sure they weren't the same one) and nothing was there at all. No beacon, no wormhole, nothing.
-Annoyance of having to toggle probes on and off to get them to show up on the map.
-Please make the cloak effect not show up if you have the minimap up. Nothing more irritating than seeing "OHAI I'M CLOAKED HERE" on my Helios when trying to move my probes
-Better camera control (I know, everyone says this, but I'd like to echo it). Sometimes it's difficult to get the camera correct to see what's going on.
-PvP scanning is going to need some sort of help. There's no way in a million years someone will be able to catch a gang moving safespots even once every 5 minutes.
-UI still needs a little tweaking, but I think you guys already know that
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Mashimara
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Posted - 2009.02.25 06:40:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Telgo Gebler
Edited by: Telgo Gebler on 25/02/2009 06:01:57
Edited by: Telgo Gebler on 25/02/2009 06:01:34
Originally by: Sigras
ok . . . i understand that the signature strength means the strength of the signal :p but what is the significance of that if i cannot warp to a 100% signal strength target?
It's basically giving you a rough estimate of how close you are. If the signal strength is under 100% the distance will always be wrong, but you can still get the probe close by tracking changes in signal strength. Once you get the signal strength to 100, the distance will always be exactly right. But you need more than just distance; say the distance is .20AU; that gives you a sphere with a surface area of 11 quadrillion square kilometers. I didn't make that number up, that's the actual figure. Not exactly a useful warp point. So you need to get four probes to 100% so that you get four spheres, the warp point is where the spheres come together. But you also need to get the four spheres lined up properly relative to the site, otherwise the spheres don't intersect properly.
PS, a couple of pages ago is a link to a (long :( ) video I made of me using the system I outlined above. Just keep in mind that that is only the third site I tracked down, so I have a lot of wasted moves/scans. I am tracking one down now and it is definitely taking less time (adjusting for the map bugs ..argh)
-Telgo
Sorry, but you are wrong about all 4 probes needing to be at 100% str. only ONE probe must have 100% str with range of 0.25 The rest can be as far out as 8 AU as long as they are core probes.2 AU if combat.
The key is to use a single probe to narrow down the area. Get the probe to 100% if possible. This will allow you to get the minimum deviation that the probe allows. If you are using a core probe with a 100% str your deviation will be 0.125. Once you have a core probe set at 0.25 AU and 100% str with a distance under 0.120 AU, all you need now is to place 3 probes in a triangle on the same plane as the first probe. set the range at 4 AU at first. Scan again. If the str drops below 100% reduce the range on the 3 probes and move them in closer. Do this until you get a 100% str with a warp in point. If all 3 are at 0.25 and you still cannot warp in, deact the 3 probes and move the 2st probe some more to get even closer, then repeat.
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2009.02.25 06:47:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Hoshi
Your probes are too close to each other, if the angle between the probes relative to the site is less than 30 degrees the probes will stop working toghther and just give individual results, this can be seen in the results window as you have 4 results there instead of 1.
I did another test. This time I measured pixels. It seems that in this test (8AU dsp, scorp, 2 probes at ~0.2-0.3AU) at around 57 degrees to around 90 degrees there is a penalty from 50% to 82.8%. Below the 57 degrees the results split into two.
Still trying to figure things out but it might be that the % of max strength (so penalty due to relative range to probe) also plays a role here. And that somehow when using more than 2 probes you get a cumulative effect which could explain that quite a lot of ppl get "split" results even if there probe setup seems to be fairly ok. Somehow if strength get to lower than 50% of what it should be (usually 100% but this could be lower if you're not on top of a target yet and/or have a weak target/long range probe) things split up. Not sure yet.
Still working on this  .
Regards,
M.M.
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Car Wars
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
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Posted - 2009.02.25 09:53:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Car Wars
question at ccp:
why this changing skills crap? ->
Astrometric triangulation (rank 5): reduces scan duration by 10% per level (old Signal Acquisition skill)
Signal Acquisition (rank 8): Increases probe strength by 5% per level (old Astrometric triangulation skill)
I do not train a rank 8 skill to 5 to get shafted by some creep at ccp. I trained it to scan nme not to do carebear stuff and fuzzy about with plexes and wormholes...
Next your gonna change dreadnaught 5 into a frigate related skill? totally pointless and unneeded change.
The old Signal Acquisition skill have been renamed Astrometric Triangulation and given the bonus 10% increase to scan probe strength per level. This is a fairly important bonus for pvp as well. Without it there are several kind of ships that you just can't locate. This includes for example most t2 frigates.
The old Astrometric Triangulation skill has been renamed Astrometric Acquisition and now give 10% reduction in scan probe scan time per level. This is fairly unimportant as the base scan time is just 10 sec (most of the time is spent moving probes around not watching the scan timer).
I fail to see how you have been shafted here, the most important skill pre patch is still the most important skill post patch.
Well this new probing stuff is nice for all the carebears who have lots off time. For PvP all that really matters is scan time, hence this at lv5. strength at lv4 etc. I can normally always find my targets within 5 AU (in a normal system this takes about 1 min), drop a short range high strenth snoop and get a target scanned out (24 sec).
I don't see how this throwing around bubbles, lining them up like pos etc etc is going to be quick.... CCP has just increased the chances of the iskfarmer raven again....
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Harry Crackup
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Posted - 2009.02.25 10:03:00 -
[476]
not to change the subject but ...... WORMHOLES
...mains been living in one the last couple o' days.
Nice pos,(5 toons in on it btw) enough fuel for 20 or so days...found some anomalys around. Tough but not to tough for a high sec hole. but ... we ran out of rats  all day no new sightings
scanned out out some of the new asteroid belts put in last patch Nice assortment according to our miner guy (Judging by the names of the fields this is a perimeter w-h)
Sweet more rats!!! ...but alas kill them and they too never come back
Ohh found 7 belts and 4 gas clouds iirc.
This will be the second night and 3 wh we've seen there.
Was able to get a gas miner ship in but no ones tried that yet
as the other posts say...probing = pain
especially with 15+ cosmic sigs. in close proximity of each other
Seems like the probes are leaking past there bounding circle by 1/2
well...waiting and hoping for a wh to wh to open and enough time to pull the pos down and move in ... ..
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PPUAPU
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Posted - 2009.02.25 10:52:00 -
[477]
New scan sistem ? what is so new at this sistem ? moving around some probes to get a triangulation ........... you better create exploration missions, create religion, hacking station sistems, new market bursa , trade npc business, quest missions with posibility to choose your path in it. CCP please hire people with imagination or just consider this dev forum a source.
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Gadrin Demarr
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:45:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Car Wars
Well this new probing stuff is nice for all the carebears who have lots off time. For PvP all that really matters is scan time, hence this at lv5. strength at lv4 etc. I can normally always find my targets within 5 AU (in a normal system this takes about 1 min), drop a short range high strenth snoop and get a target scanned out (24 sec).
I don't see how this throwing around bubbles, lining them up like pos etc etc is going to be quick.... CCP has just increased the chances of the iskfarmer raven again....
Well, Greyscale did state in his post that he felt the old system (pre-apoc) was too easy and quick, (less than 30 sec is hardly a safespot at all) so this is certainly an (intended) buff for the safespot dwellers.
Slightly off topic now:
Personally, I'm hoping that this new scanning system is a prelude to a removal of local in null sec. Such a change would benefit "the hunter" at least as much as the new difficult scanning benefits "the hunted" and could balance things out just nicely. It would be much easier to get the jump on people, but if you fail to lock them down and they go to a safe, you're in for a lot of work to ferret them out. But I am day dreaming a bit now... |
Brixer
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:57:00 -
[479]
I think this is getting better and better overall, but I think poor pvp scanners will be swearing like nothing seen before on this system.
I'll wait for more final clue on deviation, partly hits by 1-3 probes and stuff before judging it, but so far it seems a bit to cumbersome.
1 cool feature tho:
You may be able to launch probes, log off, log back in after like 10 min, reconnect to probes and almost instapinpoint the victim 
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Hoshi
Eviction.
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:38:00 -
[480]
Originally by: Car Wars
Well this new probing stuff is nice for all the carebears who have lots off time. For PvP all that really matters is scan time, hence this at lv5. strength at lv4 etc. I can normally always find my targets within 5 AU (in a normal system this takes about 1 min), drop a short range high strenth snoop and get a target scanned out (24 sec).
I don't see how this throwing around bubbles, lining them up like pos etc etc is going to be quick.... CCP has just increased the chances of the iskfarmer raven again....
Not sure what you are trying to say here but the fact is that increasing probe will have a larger impact on the time it takes to locate a target than reducing scan time will.
Stronger probe strength means you can be less precise in probe placement and use probes set to longer range. Reducing scan time on the other hand is fairly pointless, getting the skill from level 4 to 5 would reduce the time by 1 second exactly.
So again you are not shafted for skill training, the skill you trained to probe faster still has that effect just thru a different measure. Now had the skill keept its old scan time bonus you will really been shafted.
As for comparing how long it takes to find a target in the new vs old system it will depend a lot on specific circumstances but I'll claim that in some cases with a skilled pilot the new system might even be faster.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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