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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Firetale
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Posted - 2009.02.22 13:39:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:39:43
Originally by: Creat Posudol
Originally by: Firetale # Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need -> Armor hitpoints (3)
3: Simply useless. Give it Armor Hitpoints.
Of for gods sake, stop assuming every ship only exists for PVP. This is quite useful in PVE, and quite a good bonus for that. Try looking outside your own bubble for a moment, there are more things in EVE than just PVP!
I for myself am a missionrunner and no, only a nub would choose a capacitor bonus over a rep amount bonus.
Its always easier to fit a Cap Recharger to gain more cap then fit another Repper to get more tankable dps...
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.22 13:40:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Firetale
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 10:38:21 Read all before complaining!
# Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire -> Tracking Disruptor (1)
1: Why should people field this module if they cant use the Bonis from one of your propossed offensive Subsystems? Energy Neuts / Vampires take a highslot and since all offensive Subsystems for Amarr give Gun Bonis.... Change it to Tracking Disruptor.
No. 100% No. Think about it for a moment.
Electronic Subsystem - Neut Bonus + Offensive Subsystem - Laser Bonus
Fit Lasers and neuts = win.
Seriously - I can't believe this has to even be pointed out.
C.
You made me lol
Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Firetale
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Posted - 2009.02.22 13:48:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:49:40
Originally by: Cailais Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank.
C.
I still would like to see that CCP gives you enough PG to fit it with Cruisersized stuff and I would like to see you sitting there like a chicken, because you cant provide yourself with enough cap.
Sure, it would be awesome, but dont assume that CCP is going to allow options for pwnships that pwn everything and everyone with easy.
Best example Ashimmu.
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.22 14:01:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:49:40
Originally by: Cailais Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank.
C.
I still would like to see that CCP gives you enough PG to fit it with Cruisersized stuff and I would like to see you sitting there like a chicken, because you cant provide yourself with enough cap.
Sure, it would be awesome, but dont assume that CCP is going to allow options for pwnships that pwn everything and everyone with easy.
Best example Ashimmu.
From the stats on sisi so far (admittedly subject to change) PG shouldnt be an issue - and you can always fit rigs for additional PG. and why couldn't you provide yourself with enough cap?? My curse / pilgrim are fine and dont cap out - why should a T3 ship be any worse off???
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Firetale
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Posted - 2009.02.22 14:49:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:49:40
Originally by: Cailais Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank.
C.
I still would like to see that CCP gives you enough PG to fit it with Cruisersized stuff and I would like to see you sitting there like a chicken, because you cant provide yourself with enough cap.
Sure, it would be awesome, but dont assume that CCP is going to allow options for pwnships that pwn everything and everyone with easy.
Best example Ashimmu.
From the stats on sisi so far (admittedly subject to change) PG shouldnt be an issue - and you can always fit rigs for additional PG. and why couldn't you provide yourself with enough cap?? My curse / pilgrim are fine and dont cap out - why should a T3 ship be any worse off???
C.
As is said, it would be a bit to awesome and if you want such a ship to exist, then youre just addmiting that you dont have any sense for balancing.
Either way, there is no need for pwnships, just get it.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.02.22 17:54:00 -
[156]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
- Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus
HOOOORAY
We totally need another triple split weapon system! They work so awesome! Spending both bonuses so all highslots have a single one is cool!
Honestly, with the addition of the Fleet Scythe, you yourself Nozh, admitted that these things do not work in practice. Back then, you're argument was the equivalent of "Lalalla we do it anyway".
Could you please explain why we have to suffer through this again? Think Fleet Stabber, think cruiser autocannon platform.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.22 19:33:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Mioelnir
Originally by: CCP Nozh
- Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus
HOOOORAY
We totally need another triple split weapon system! They work so awesome! Spending both bonuses so all highslots have a single one is cool!
Honestly, with the addition of the Fleet Scythe, you yourself Nozh, admitted that these things do not work in practice. Back then, you're argument was the equivalent of "Lalalla we do it anyway".
Could you please explain why we have to suffer through this again? Think Fleet Stabber, think cruiser autocannon platform.
you don't have to fit damage mods in the lows. that's the secret. Plus it can be useful when your tracking disrupted, as your missle will still hit, or if your damped you can fit FoF missles. you can also use drones. IT's not as good, but these ships add something to eve. not every ship needs to be the ame ship.
just give these piece something cool like... 50 drone bandwith or such, so the slipt weapon system might be wroth fitting for something else.
also maybe make it 7.5% per level? seems like with the skill loss on the line these can be more beefy here and there. :)
ok I got another idea, Give some subsystems bonuses to fitting things like guns, or shield mods. So you could fit more guns as they take 50% less powergrid. or something like that. But then you have to risk that level 5 skill.
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.22 21:02:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Firetale
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:49:40
Originally by: Cailais Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank.
C.
I still would like to see that CCP gives you enough PG to fit it with Cruisersized stuff and I would like to see you sitting there like a chicken, because you cant provide yourself with enough cap.
Sure, it would be awesome, but dont assume that CCP is going to allow options for pwnships that pwn everything and everyone with easy.
Best example Ashimmu.
From the stats on sisi so far (admittedly subject to change) PG shouldnt be an issue - and you can always fit rigs for additional PG. and why couldn't you provide yourself with enough cap?? My curse / pilgrim are fine and dont cap out - why should a T3 ship be any worse off???
C.
As is said, it would be a bit to awesome and if you want such a ship to exist, then youre just addmiting that you dont have any sense for balancing.
Either way, there is no need for pwnships, just get it.
These ships will cost, on average, around 500mil ISK. They'd better be pretty darn good. I think we'll probably see a TD bonus subsystem as subsystem 4/5 anyway - so its something of a moot argument.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.22 21:06:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Cailais
if one can't beat 2 tech one battleships I would cry.
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.22 21:15:00 -
[160]
Since ccp has managed to create Tech II Battleships which are actually worse then their Tech I hulls, i have little hope in Tech III living up to expectations...
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Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance
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Posted - 2009.02.22 21:59:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 22/02/2009 22:02:00
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Gallente Electronic Subsystem 1 - Warp Scramble Range
Is this to both Warp Scramblers and Warp Disruptors?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints Gallente Defensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Hitpoint Bonus
These wont be stacked against each other will they? Gallente DS3 might be better served with a drone bay m3 bonus like the Ishkur/Eos to fit racial flavor, but I hate those bonuses to begin with. Compared with the other races Gall. DS3 needs to be an HP bonus, or copy the Amarr rep cap bonus. (Edit) If all will be an HP bonus, should the armor % bonus be higher than the shield % bonus to account for shield recharge adding to tank?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Amarr/Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Amarr/Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength
Isn't Scan Resolution and Scan Strength functionally the same thing? Seems like for the bonus, Id rather fit ElecS2 since it can potentially help boost tank. I also feel bad for Gallente and Caldari since they dont get this option.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction
Seems silly because speed should functionally outweigh the signature penalty. That is unless its a large bonus, say 10% per level.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
(any) Propulsion Subsystem # - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus
I presume that's capacitor need to initiate warp? I don't know who would take that module for that bonus, and warp speed is silly if you use gang warp. Agility is 100% better because it will change the time needed to get into warp and warp speed is meaningless for a skilled solo pilot.
Another note on the Propulsion Subsystems, try and keep the bonus' to similar subsystems together. Amarr 1 is agility, 2 is AB bonus (no MWD?), 3 is MWD sig. Caldari is 1 agility, 2 warp, 3 AB speed. Etc Etc. Do this: 1) Agility, 2) Velocity, 3) MWD/AB Velocity or Cap After that, put the appropriate slots together (should be easy to swap the attributes) and it seems to flow a bit better.
My 2cents, Thanks! ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Aylara
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Posted - 2009.02.22 22:33:00 -
[162]
I would rather take an armor amount / resistances bonus for my proteus, rather then repair amount bonus.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.22 23:29:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Aylara I would rather take an armor amount / resistances bonus for my proteus, rather then repair amount bonus.
then the system is working as intended.
YOU pick your favorite set up.
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Y3R M4W
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Posted - 2009.02.23 00:14:00 -
[164]
For 'Amarr Engineering Subsystem 2' - the cap capacity bonus is sort of useless as it has a good 200 less cap than Subsystem 3, which gets a recharge bonus, so general cap ammount/regen will always leave Subsystem 3 on top.
Note: YER MAW! is Scottish for Your Mother. |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.02.23 02:44:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Y3R M4W For 'Amarr Engineering Subsystem 2' - the cap capacity bonus is sort of useless as it has a good 200 less cap than Subsystem 3, which gets a recharge bonus, so general cap ammount/regen will always leave Subsystem 3 on top.
Agreed.
This subsystem needs to have a HUGE cap, with a crappy recharge. Subsystem 3 should always give a better recharge #, but subsystem 2 needs like 2x the cap it has now.
This can be said for most races.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.23 03:44:00 -
[166]
can be said for every choice of amount vs recharge... rigs, mods, even skills been trying to find out the reasoning behind that for 3 years now... no luck at least none that explains the size of the discrepancies - putting the gist back into logistics |
Vina
Caldari Destructive Influence KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.02.23 03:57:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Firetale
2: Falcon is the perfect ECM ship, there is NO point at all for an ECM Subsystem, since its obvious that no one is going to field 100m or more insta popage without a Cov ops cloack. Give it a usefull Targetpainting Bonus instead.
**** off. -----------------------------------
my opinion is my own. |
Gerard Deneth
Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2009.02.23 04:29:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Amarr/Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Amarr/Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength
Isn't Scan Resolution and Scan Strength functionally the same thing? Seems like for the bonus, Id rather fit ElecS2 since it can potentially help boost tank. I also feel bad for Gallente and Caldari since they dont get this option.
I believe the Scan Strength bonus refers to exploration probes rather than a ship's onboard sensor equipment...
---------------------------- The Game's always changing under your feet; don't start moaning when you get a toe caught in the gears. |
rgreat
Gallente OEG GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.23 05:55:00 -
[169]
Edited by: rgreat on 23/02/2009 06:00:19 Tried Amarr and Gallente T3 ships.
Well, they both suck big time. Gallente even better then amarr. Why? cause they cannot tank at all. Not very fast, cannot do much damage, too little slots (like on t1 cruiser or less), low/none drone bandwich (25! m3 with drone subsystem on Proteus, lol). EWAR/Neut bonuses are weaker compared to Curse/Lachesis. In fact anything in them is weaker compared to Curse/Lachesis. You can't even beat drake on T3. ;)
I guess it is because its only 'work in progress' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Creat Posudol
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:31:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:39:43
Originally by: Creat Posudol
Originally by: Firetale # Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need -> Armor hitpoints (3)
3: Simply useless. Give it Armor Hitpoints.
Of for gods sake, stop assuming every ship only exists for PVP. This is quite useful in PVE, and quite a good bonus for that. Try looking outside your own bubble for a moment, there are more things in EVE than just PVP!
I for myself am a missionrunner and no, only a nub would choose a capacitor bonus over a rep amount bonus.
Its always easier to fit a Cap Recharger to gain more cap then fit another Repper to get more tankable dps...
A cap recharger requires a slot, what if you don't have one to spare? This bonus might also enable you to permarun 2 reppers instead of one, boosting your rep amount by far more than a bonus could. It also greatly depends on the size of the bonus, just don't dismiss it before we have actual stats and could run a few numbers.
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Dristra
Amarr Idle Haven
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:40:00 -
[171]
Sure hope this is work in progress indeed, as it stands these tech III ships have to many unnecessary penalties associated with them.
Basically you are better off with a tech II ship or even a tier 2 bc
Originally by: CCP Atropos the physics engine has balls
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
Freyya
GeoCorp. Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:50:00 -
[172]
Been fiddling with the Proteus for a while now and i must say that alot of subsystem sets give a very strange and not viable slot layouts. I have been able to find ONE set that is good in 1vs1 with a decent 5-5-6 layout but the rest is just simply eaten alive no matter how you fit it. And believe me i've tried alot of fits. I really think the layouts need revision.. If you fit a certain subset according to bonusses
(like warpscramble range/resistance bonus/cap recharge/hybrid damage,falloff bonus/recharge rate/mwd,ab cap usage bonus just to pick something that could be used as an advanced tackler or something)
you get a totally weird slot layout which is either paper thin or just doesn't have the midslots to fit everything required to lock down a target or something like that. I even managed to construct a set with 125m3 dronebay but no bandwith to use it...which brings me to the fact that drone bandwith should be available in the info tab of the respective subsystem which it currently isn't. Only visible once you've already constructed a set.
It would also help if the + and - slots bonus should be clearly visible when you're making a subset and it would help if the OP is updated with the current amount of bonus % per level you get. Hell, tbh it would help immensely if we could get a spreadsheet that lists all the information available on bonusses,attributes,layout modifiers etc.etc. which could get updated once all the stats and such get updated for a new sisi build. Could bring testing and balancing to a whole new level i think.. ___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari Katsu Response Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.23 11:16:00 -
[173]
Caldari Electronic Subsystem:
make one of these a target painter bonus mod. Caldari could really use a dedicated target painting ship. |
Asmodean Reborn
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2009.02.23 11:29:00 -
[174]
I really thought that T3 would allow for any subsystem to be fitted on any race ship (provided you have the skill). Like was said previously, these ships tend to follow the general theme of the race (Amarr armor tanking/neuting/using lasers) which doesn't really allow for the completely versatile setups that were suggested.
Would it be too unbalanced if, for instance, you could have an ECmM fitted blaster-ship? Or a proper nano-laserboat? Or a damping artillery-ship?
I love the new T3 stuff and it's a pita getting it balanced, but it seems like we're just going to be getting slight variations on ships we already have.
I know it would also be impossible for the art department as you'd have a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeediculous amount of possible setups to create models for, but i'm sure things could be done to get around this problem.
I'll be testing the Legion and Loki on sisi later as so far all i've done is speculate.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:41:00 -
[175]
Originally by: rgreat Edited by: rgreat on 23/02/2009 06:00:19 Tried Amarr and Gallente T3 ships.
Well, they both suck big time. Gallente even better then amarr. Why? cause they cannot tank at all. Not very fast, cannot do much damage, too little slots (like on t1 cruiser or less), low/none drone bandwich (25! m3 with drone subsystem on Proteus, lol). EWAR/Neut bonuses are weaker compared to Curse/Lachesis. In fact anything in them is weaker compared to Curse/Lachesis. You can't even beat drake on T3. ;)
I guess it is because its only 'work in progress'
what? Lol try again. You can make ships that tank as much as a command ship. HInt active tanks are better on those ships.... ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Meha Mott
Minmatar Carebear Research and Produktion Agency
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Posted - 2009.02.23 14:03:00 -
[176]
These ships will cost, on average, around 500mil ISK. They'd better be pretty darn good. I think we'll probably see a TD bonus subsystem as subsystem 4/5 anyway - so its something of a moot argument.
C.
500 Mill ? i think you should triple the price atm.
The Gas cloud harvest part alone will be around 700 Mill compared to the momentary SiSi prices.
If they don't change a lot, we will have another Black Ops disaster.
Pre nerved into oblivion compared to the price tag.
Sorry for my bad english. Sorry for my bad english. |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.23 17:25:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Electronic Subsystem:
make one of these a target painter bonus mod. Caldari could really use a dedicated target painting ship.
sure... give minnies some jamming bonuses so we can jam better (from 100km+ ofc) and do so for ages with our nano. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Nethras
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.02.23 18:02:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction
Seems silly because speed should functionally outweigh the signature penalty. That is unless its a large bonus, say 10% per level.
The only current bonus of that type is on ceptors and is 15% per level, so odds are it will be a fairly significant bonus, yes.
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Potrero
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.23 19:42:00 -
[179]
Is it possible to build a Lokibond?
Can you create the Vagabond stats with a Loki? I think this would be an interesting exercise. If possible we could see how well balanced the T3 ships are.
Right off the top I could see 3 advantages: - Heat buff - 3 rig slots versus 2 for a HAC - Ability to skill up for 5 sub systems rather than just falloff and damage for the HAC
Wonder if anyone has tried this to see how the two ships would compare side by side.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.23 20:38:00 -
[180]
humm sry, the propulsion mods dont differ much except for the bonus. currently they don't look speedy... at all - below bc - putting the gist back into logistics |
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