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Tech 3: Strategic Cruiser Bonuses

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)

CCP Nozh C C P	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:49:00 - [1] Hey! Singularity should be up soon with updated static data, every subsystem should now have unique stats as well as bonuses. The bonuses aren't visible anywhere (When they're more final they'll be added to the descriptions), so I'm listing them here for now. disclaimer: None of the bonuses are 100% final Ship Bonuses 5% Heat Damage Reduction Per Level. Subsystem Bonuses Electronic Subsystem Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire Amarr Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Amarr Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Caldari Electronic Subsystem 1 - ECM Strength Caldari Electronic Subsystem 2 - CPU Output/Max Targeting Range Caldari Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Gallente Electronic Subsystem 1 - Warp Scramble Range Gallente Electronic Subsystem 2 - CPU Output/Max Targeting Range Gallente Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 1 - Stasis Webifier Range Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Defensive Subsystems Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need Caldari Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Caldari Defensive Subsystem 2 - Shield Boost Bonus Caldari Defensive Subsystem 3 - Shield Hitpoint Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 2 - Repair Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Hitpoint Bonus Minmatar Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Minmatar Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Bonus Minmatar Defensive Subsystem 3 - Shield Boost Bonus Offensive Subsystems Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - Missile Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus Caldari Offensive Subsystem 2 - Missile Damage / Flight Time / Missile Velocity Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 1 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Damage Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 2 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Falloff / Optimal Range Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus Engineering Subsystem Amarr Engineering Subsystem 1 - Power Output Amarr Engineering Subsystem 2 - Capacitor Capacity Amarr Engineering Subsystem 3 - Capacitor Recharge Rate Caldari Engineering Subsystem 1 - Power Output Caldari Engineering Subsystem 2 - Capacitor Capacity Caldari Engineering Subsystem 3 - Capacitor Recharge Rate Gallente Engineering Subsystem 1 - Power Output Gallente Engineering Subsystem 2 - Capacitor Capacity Gallente Engineering Subsystem 3 - Capacitor Recharge Rate Minmatar Engineering Subsystem 1 - Power Output Minmatar Engineering Subsystem 2 - Capacitor Capacity []Minmatar Engineering Subsystem 3 - Capacitor Recharge Rate Nozh* Game Designer CCP Games


CCP Nozh C C P	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:50:00 - [2] Propulsion Subsystem Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 3 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Agility Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Agility Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Make sure to take into account the actual stats and slot modifications the subsystems give before judging bonuses too hard. Nozh Game Designer CCP Games

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:52:00 - [3] Edited by: MotherMoon on 20/02/2009 11:53:41 Quote: 5% Heat Damage Reduction Per Level. yes! AWESOME! edit: too soon? :P also I hope this isn't a hint at not getting 5 parts per section after all.
John Grimm Amarr Rendili StarDrive Yards	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:54:00 - [4] Edited by: John Grimm on 20/02/2009 11:55:05 Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! 5% Heat Damage Reduction Per Level. The Best bonus EVER!!!11!!1 But can we have that as a 10% per level. Also what are the % values of the Subsystem Bonuses?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:57:00 - [5] Interesting. アニメ漫画です
Talleria Lange Gallente MEK Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:11:00 - [6] looks like things are coming around to final release just hope that we get all 5 veriations of each subsystem. A man of meany words dosent have much to say, but a man of few words has a lot to say. So pay attion.
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Talleria Lange looks like things are coming around to final release just hope that we get all 5 veriations of each subsystem. leaving that out would kill the epic.
Van Soll	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Talleria Lange looks like things are coming around to final release just hope that we get all 5 veriations of each subsystem. I'm guessing that if the other two aren't included in M10, they'll be filtered in soon after.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:30:00 - [9] /me opposes signature bonus for amarr. since extenders have become common among minnie fittings, they're the smallest race anyways. in addition to their armor tanking superiority, it's just too much. - putting the gist back into logistics
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Roemy Schneider /me opposes signature bonus for amarr. since extenders have become common among minnie fittings, they're the smallest race anyways. in addition to their armor tanking superiority, it's just too much. I think it would be ok for tech 3 cruisers to each have one that did this. I mean they will have 5 each.

Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:32:00 - [11] Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - Missile Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus Caldari Offensive Subsystem 2 - Missile Damage / Flight Time / Missile Velocity Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range This is nice and all, but there's a discrepancy between these stats and the appearance of the model. Specifically, Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 gives the tengu a pair of outriggers which have some very visible turret hardpoints modelled onto them, but it's the one giving all the missile hardpoints and bonuses. I notice that there's a new build on the server now, though, so it might have been fixed. I'll check once I've patched. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.

CCP Nozh C C P	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - Missile Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus Caldari Offensive Subsystem 2 - Missile Damage / Flight Time / Missile Velocity Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range This is nice and all, but there's a discrepancy between these stats and the appearance of the model. Specifically, Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 gives the tengu a pair of outriggers which have some very visible turret hardpoints modelled onto them, but it's the one giving all the missile hardpoints and bonuses. I notice that there's a new build on the server now, though, so it might have been fixed. I'll check once I've patched. Haven't matched looks with roles yet. Will get done very soon. Nozh Game Designer CCP Games

Narfas Deteis	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:37:00 - [13] Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! Offensive Subsystems Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range [/list] Is there a chance for Khanid version of Amarr T3 ship? Changing one of these bonuses from lasers to missiles should be anough.
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Narfas Deteis Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! Offensive Subsystems Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range [/list] Is there a chance for Khanid version of Amarr T3 ship? Changing one of these bonuses from lasers to missiles should be anough. your forgetting these are only 3 of 5.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:54:00 - [15] I for one welcome our new strategic cruiser overlords Thanks for the first hint of where this ships are going! <3 t3 ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:57:00 - [16] Also, 3 components per subsystem or 5 for release? ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Felysta Sandorn coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:07:00 - [17] Originally by: CCP Nozh Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range And once again Amarr are pre-nerfed with one bonus being taken up by laser capacity... Unless the capacity bonus is 15% per level, there is no way this is balanced. Another epic fail for CCP thinking about Amarr pilots... .: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:13:00 - [18] I see no bonus on sisi :( or are they hidden?
Van Soll	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:16:00 - [19] Originally by: MotherMoon I see no bonus on sisi :( or are they hidden? They're not in the descriptions yet if thats what you mean, they should be working though.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:17:00 - [20] " Gallente Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus" " Caldari Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus" Are those resistance's to both amour and shields so those that shield tank Gallente or Amour tank Caldari have a good option? ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)

Keiko Shizuka	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:17:00 - [21] Originally by: CCP Nozh Singularity should be up soon with updated static data, every subsystem should now have unique stats as well as bonuses. The bonuses aren't visible anywhere (When they're more final they'll be added to the descriptions), so I'm listing them here for now. They are hidden. :)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:20:00 - [22] Originally by: Keiko **uka Originally by: CCP Nozh Singularity should be up soon with updated static data, every subsystem should now have unique stats as well as bonuses. The bonuses aren't visible anywhere (When they're more final they'll be added to the descriptions), so I'm listing them here for now. They are hidden. :) doh :P
Dante Chusuk Domination. Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:25:00 - [23] Damn you CCP another night of takeaway food + beer + testing
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:30:00 - [24] Originally by: CCP Nozh Haven't matched looks with roles yet. Will get done very soon. Sweet. from the looks of things, I'll finally get the ship I've always wanted. and it'll look sweet as all hell, too. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Pottsey " Gallente Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus" " Caldari Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus" Are those resistance's to both amour and shields so those that shield tank Gallente or Amour tank Caldari have a good option? The per level bonus only applies to the relevant racial system I think. (I know the Amarr one only affects armour) That subsystem does have almost HAC level resists I believe. (or was that #2, can't check. At work at the moment) Personally I like the idea of an Armour Repair Cap Usage bonus on the #3 Amarr Defensive subsystem. Increased Cap efficiency means more cap for the lasers.
Shaikar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Dante Chusuk Damn you CCP another night of takeaway food + beer + testing Aye, a terrible fate.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:47:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - Missile Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus Caldari Offensive Subsystem 2 - Missile Damage / Flight Time / Missile Velocity Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range This is nice and all, but there's a discrepancy between these stats and the appearance of the model. Specifically, Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 gives the tengu a pair of outriggers which have some very visible turret hardpoints modelled onto them, but it's the one giving all the missile hardpoints and bonuses. I notice that there's a new build on the server now, though, so it might have been fixed. I'll check once I've patched. Haven't matched looks with roles yet. Will get done very soon. Awesome! Could you PLEASE ensure that the EW bonuses are assigned to the #2 or #3 electronics subsystem so we don't end up with those nasty looking front ends on the Proteus and Legion? Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
AshtarDJ Filthy Scum Scum Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Dante Chusuk Damn you CCP another night of takeaway food + beer + testing Can we put the food-beer on CCP's bill?
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:58:00 - [29] Lovin a heat bonus, it really makes these feel like pvp ships but my gut reaction is it's the kind of bonus that needs to be pitched around 7.5% to be meaingful. _
Schmell	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:11:00 - [30] I`d better like web strength bonuses for minmatar ships, instead of target painter. :)

Rosur Gallente Infestation.	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:13:00 - [31] will the galleten t3 ships be able to have 125m3 drone bandwidth with any combination? Please resize your sig to less than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:14:00 - [32] Looks very interesting. Here's hoping we get the full 5 variants at some point. ...and if we do, as someone said: it would be cool to get a missile offensive component for Amarr, to mirror the Khanid-style ships. Maybe some variants for the other races, too.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:17:00 - [33] God i hope one of the remaining subsystems will have a cov ops cloak bonus --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation]

CCP Nozh C C P	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope one of the remaining subsystems will have a cov ops cloak bonus I've been playing around with some cloak focused subsystems, but not Covert Ops. Velocity while cloaked + Removal of targeting delay... Nozh Game Designer CCP Games


CCP Nozh C C P	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Rosur will the galleten t3 ships be able to have 125m3 drone bandwidth with any combination? Drone Bandwidth & Drone Space needs to be looked into better. Nozh Game Designer CCP Games

Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:44:00 - [36] * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 2 - Shield Boost Bonus * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 3 - Shield Hitpoint Bonus Anyone besides me thinking amarr got the shaft there with the repair cap need bonus? This bonus is so crap i dont know where to start complaining: 1) You need to fit a rep to benefit (amarr are not known for active repping) 2) You need to run the rep for a long time to benefit (pvp is not that long if T3 = primary) 3) You need an injector anyway cause nos/neut is a danger even if the bonus is 90% 4) when injector is fitted, bonus is useless 5) ergo bonus is useless / shaft / crap / dont like Replace it with Hitpoints like the Caldari get, or i will call you biased towards caldari! Do you want that?
Emily'ze Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:52:00 - [37] Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope one of the remaining subsystems will have a cov ops cloak bonus I've been playing around with some cloak focused subsystems, but not Covert Ops. Velocity while cloaked + Removal of targeting delay... Electronic or Defensive subsystem?
Aya Vandenovich	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:59:00 - [38] Edited by: Aya Vandenovich on 20/02/2009 14:59:19 Originally by: Perry Replace it with Hitpoints like the Caldari get, or i will call you biased towards caldari! Do you want that? It's entirely possible that a hitpoints bonus will be in system 4 or 5. The bonus is quite interesting, and far from useless when you look at it in certain combinations, though. Somewhere In England
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Perry * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 2 - Shield Boost Bonus * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 3 - Shield Hitpoint Bonus Anyone besides me thinking amarr got the shaft there with the repair cap need bonus? This bonus is so crap i dont know where to start complaining: 1) You need to fit a rep to benefit (amarr are not known for active repping) Replace it with Hitpoints like the Caldari get, or i will call you biased towards caldari! Do you want that? just don't fit it unless your using an active tank set up. that's the POINT.
Dante Chusuk Domination. Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:24:00 - [40] Edited by: Dante Chusuk on 20/02/2009 15:25:07 As I spend a fair amount of time flying a Damnation my initial reaction was the same regarding cap amount should be an HP bonus BUT Aya's post reminded me that: a) we have 2 more subsystems to come in each category b) I can't remember exactly what boni you get from fitting Amarr Defensive 3 so cap bonus might make more sense for this subsystem and HP bonus for the subsystem CCP have up their sleeve (Defensive 4 or 5) As for the person who suggested CCP pays for the takeaway/beer bill ... is there a particular petition category for this Nozh or should we raise it as part of a Bug ticket? I mean even my beer bill has to be less than the average Eve Dev's Note: This assumes that CCP haven't randomly thrown boni at the subsystems and said "here have a play" ... which they already admitted due to one of the Tengu subsystems earlier ... DOH!

Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:28:00 - [41] Loving the heat bonus. Perhaps make it a multiplier to amplify the skill (I need a reason to take it to 5 )? Amarr just needs two configurations: 1. The Brick of Doom with uber resists, and 2. The Gank Extraordinaire, with more guns than God. Throw in extra subsystems for ECM defense and you are good to go Looks good so far Nozh, but for Goddess' sake, make sure there are no obvious cookie cutter configurations. Game already has way to much of that crap with the idiotic plate/extender setups.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:41:00 - [42] Engineering Subsystem just posting ideas for subsystems 4-5 Ammar -50% fitting requirements for bomb launchers -50% fitting requirements for large nuets and nos stuff like this maybe? thanks for your time.
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:46:00 - [43] Originally by: MotherMoon just don't fit it unless your using an active tank set up. that's the POINT. If i fit for active tank i use the one with the repair amount bonus to actually survive the damage done to my ship. Thank you very much.
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:46:00 - [44] I am still hoping that one of the subsystems will include at least one extra utility (non-weapon) slot high. Perhaps the possible cloak-focused subsystem? It would help with the difficult tradeoffs when trying to figure out which of probe/salvager/cloak to take without gimping offense "too much". (And, not incidentally, help me build my perfect T3 salvage boat...) ------------------ Ironfleet.com
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Perry * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need Anyone besides me thinking amarr got the shaft there with the repair cap need bonus? This bonus is so crap i dont know where to start complaining: 1) You need to fit a rep to benefit (amarr are not known for active repping) 2) You need to run the rep for a long time to benefit (pvp is not that long if T3 = primary) 3) You need an injector anyway cause nos/neut is a danger even if the bonus is 90% 4) when injector is fitted, bonus is useless 5) ergo bonus is useless / shaft / crap / dont like Replace it with Hitpoints like the Caldari get, or i will call you biased towards caldari! Do you want that? OK look at the Defensive Subsystem 3 for amarr. It give you CRAZY resists, and if memory serves me, it kills a low slot or two. I've fooled around a lot with the amarr ships and pretty much any time I use the defensive subsystem 3, I want to put a medium armor rep on it. I'm not saying I LIKE this idea, but it makes a little sense. oh and PLEASE GIVE AMARR T3 SHIPS SOME DRONE LOVING ????
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:52:00 - [46] Originally by: Perry Originally by: MotherMoon just don't fit it unless your using an active tank set up. that's the POINT. If i fit for active tank i use the one with the repair amount bonus to actually survive the damage done to my ship. Thank you very much. look at the rest of the stats those systems give. the less cap allows for more offense. it's give and take.
Freyya GeoCorp. Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:01:00 - [47] Interesting indeed, have to grab a really good look at the different stats when fitting the new bonussed subsytems. I wonder if some bonusses might be a bit out of place though but it's hard to tell with the tier 4 & 5 subsystems still missing. (cloaked HURRY UP AND FINISH THEM! rant) ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:06:00 - [48] Originally by: Perry * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 2 - Shield Boost Bonus * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 3 - Shield Hitpoint Bonus Anyone besides me thinking amarr got the shaft there with the repair cap need bonus? This bonus is so crap i dont know where to start complaining: 1) You need to fit a rep to benefit (amarr are not known for active repping) 2) You need to run the rep for a long time to benefit (pvp is not that long if T3 = primary) 3) You need an injector anyway cause nos/neut is a danger even if the bonus is 90% 4) when injector is fitted, bonus is useless 5) ergo bonus is useless / shaft / crap / dont like Replace it with Hitpoints like the Caldari get, or i will call you biased towards caldari! Do you want that? All-round resist bonus beats HP bonus, it's better when you're active or remote-repping while having same effective HP in other situations. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Sonorra Baki Interstellar eXodus Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:07:00 - [49] Edited by: Sonorra Baki on 20/02/2009 16:08:09 Minmatar defensive subsystem no.1 says resistance bonus, is that for shield or armor? This may not be work safe -Capsicum

CCP Nozh C C P	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:15:00 - [50] Originally by: Sonorra Baki Edited by: Sonorra Baki on 20/02/2009 16:08:09 Minmatar defensive subsystem no.1 says resistance bonus, is that for shield or armor? Armor Nozh Game Designer CCP Games


Talleria Lange Gallente MEK Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:19:00 - [51] Originally by: CCP Nozh Defensive Subsystems Gallente Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 2 - Repair Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Hitpoint Bonus Good placement on this bonus works good there with the drone bay Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints not a good palce ment as theres no band width to use drones A man of meany words dosent have much to say, but a man of few words has a lot to say. So pay attion.

CCP Nozh C C P	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:22:00 - [52] Originally by: Talleria Lange Originally by: CCP Nozh Defensive Subsystems Gallente Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 2 - Repair Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Hitpoint Bonus Good placement on this bonus works good there with the drone bay Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints not a good palce ment as theres no band width to use drones Originally by: CCP Nozh Drone Bandwidth & Drone Space needs to be looked into better. Nozh Game Designer CCP Games


CCP Lemur	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:23:00 - [53] Edited by: CCP Lemur on 20/02/2009 16:23:44 Edited by: CCP Lemur on 20/02/2009 16:23:33 Nothing to see here.

Talleria Lange Gallente MEK Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:26:00 - [54] Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Talleria Lange Originally by: CCP Nozh Defensive Subsystems Gallente Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 2 - Repair Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Hitpoint Bonus Good placement on this bonus works good there with the drone bay Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints not a good palce ment as theres no band width to use drones Originally by: CCP Nozh Drone Bandwidth & Drone Space needs to be looked into better. Funny Nozh Quoating your self from a previous post. Guess I missed that. well just thought I would put in my 2 ISK on the matter. A man of meany words dosent have much to say, but a man of few words has a lot to say. So pay attion.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:44:00 - [55] Sorry but that 5% heat bonus really needs to be 7.5% :)
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:37:00 - [56] Any bonuses for Electronic subsystems (4 / 5?) for racial E-WAR? C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Dakisha Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:38:00 - [57] Why are the devs ignoring the question regarding only 3 subsystems available instead of the original 5 promised? Don't forget we've got to help balance these, so if you're holding off till closer M10, please don't.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:43:00 - [58] Edited by: Karrade Krise on 20/02/2009 17:44:41 Originally by: Dakisha Why are the devs ignoring the question regarding only 3 subsystems available instead of the original 5 promised? Don't forget we've got to help balance these, so if you're holding off till closer M10, please don't. You missed the part where they are looking at cloak/targeting delay as possible bonus to the missing subsystems...so they are still in the works. Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope one of the remaining subsystems will have a cov ops cloak bonus I've been playing around with some cloak focused subsystems, but not Covert Ops. Velocity while cloaked + Removal of targeting delay... OMG! That's a very girly "OMG"! Because if this happens, I swear I will have a sex change and have your babies! (IG) Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. Whisper is now officially my hero.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:47:00 - [59] Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope one of the remaining subsystems will have a cov ops cloak bonus I've been playing around with some cloak focused subsystems, but not Covert Ops. Velocity while cloaked + Removal of targeting delay... Why not covert ops? Provided its applied with a drawback (reduced high slots?) it should be applicable? After all the force recons have both the cov ops cloak and E-WAR and racial bonuses (webs etc). C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:53:00 - [60] Edited by: Myra2007 on 20/02/2009 17:56:00 Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need That bonus is 100% useless in pvp. Why is it that gallente get resistance bonus (amarr racial bonus) and amarr get a really crappy version of the gallente one(cap use vs. repair amount)? Should be either hitpoints or repair amount really. Edit: and indeed as another fellow pointed out 3 != 5. Are there still other subsystems in design or is this all? -- Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world

Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.02.20 18:00:00 - [61] Originally by: Myra2007 Edit: and indeed as another fellow pointed out 3 != 5. Are there still other subsystems in design or is this all? Read two-three posts up... Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. Whisper is now officially my hero.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.20 18:00:00 - [62] Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Rosur will the galleten t3 ships be able to have 125m3 drone bandwidth with any combination? Drone Bandwidth & Drone Space needs to be looked into better. i really hope so as it should be possible for a t3 gallente cruiser to be able to field the same drones as a ishtar
Lijhal Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.02.20 18:45:00 - [63] question: are these bonuses static or xx% per level ? i would also like to see, what the bonuses' on the last 2 subsystems of each category are ... there for we can have a better overview of all subsystems along the 4 races :)
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.20 19:01:00 - [64] Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope one of the remaining subsystems will have a cov ops cloak bonus I've been playing around with some cloak focused subsystems, but not Covert Ops. Velocity while cloaked + Removal of targeting delay... Honestly, *terrible* idea. Have you noticed how rarely black ops and stealth bombers are used, compared to force recons? This should tell you something about how useless non-covert-ops cloaks are in combat. When you can't warp in while cloaked, screwing around with a cloak just takes you out of the fight, putting your fleet down a ship. Everyone knows you're there, so why bother? I guess compared to some of the bonuses from the electronics systems (I assume it would go there) it's not bad, but compared to the ewar bonuses? Can you imagine anyone actually taking a worthless cloak over a web range bonus? I don't think so. Add the covops cloak, or just scrap the whole idea. As for the existing subsystems, a few comments: 1) Caldari subsystem 3 sucks. T2 resists are nice, but giving more lows than mids (a single mid!)? Subsystem 1 or 2 will give you more tank, thanks to the extra mids. I hope subsystem 4 or 5 gives T2 resists with a proper mid slot layout, if it doesn't, this needs to be fixed. 2) ECM strength bonus = worthless without the ECM range bonus. Remember the Widow? Remember how nobody wants to fit ECM on a paper-thin ship with a 500 million ISK price tag? T3 will be the same. Without the matching range bonus, it's suicide to give up your tank to use ECM effectively. This might be fine on a 5 million ISK Blackbird, but not on an expensive T3 ship that also eats your skillpoints when it dies. 3) Tank bonuses should apply to both shields AND armor, for all races. T3 is supposed to be about customization, and there are quite a few ways to make a shield-tanking Amarr ship or armor-tanking Caldari ship. Really, this doesn't change much, as a ship that is tanking one is only going to have a token HP buffer on the other, so you won't end up with double-tanked ships. 25% armor resists on a shield tanker adds next to nothing to the tank, so it's a pretty small price to pay to make those armor tanking versions work properly. 4) How big is the AB speed bonus? This is going to have to be HUGE to get an AB setup to be a useful option outside of deadspace fights. -----------
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.02.20 19:18:00 - [65] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Honestly, *terrible* idea. Have you noticed how rarely black ops and stealth bombers are used, compared to force recons? This should tell you something about how useless non-covert-ops cloaks are in combat. When you can't warp in while cloaked, screwing around with a cloak just takes you out of the fight, putting your fleet down a ship. Everyone knows you're there, so why bother? I guess compared to some of the bonuses from the electronics systems (I assume it would go there) it's not bad, but compared to the ewar bonuses? Can you imagine anyone actually taking a worthless cloak over a web range bonus? I don't think so. Add the covops cloak, or just scrap the whole idea. As for the existing subsystems, a few comments: 1) Caldari subsystem 3 sucks. T2 resists are nice, but giving more lows than mids (a single mid!)? Subsystem 1 or 2 will give you more tank, thanks to the extra mids. I hope subsystem 4 or 5 gives T2 resists with a proper mid slot layout, if it doesn't, this needs to be fixed. 2) ECM strength bonus = worthless without the ECM range bonus. Remember the Widow? Remember how nobody wants to fit ECM on a paper-thin ship with a 500 million ISK price tag? T3 will be the same. Without the matching range bonus, it's suicide to give up your tank to use ECM effectively. This might be fine on a 5 million ISK Blackbird, but not on an expensive T3 ship that also eats your skillpoints when it dies. 3) Tank bonuses should apply to both shields AND armor, for all races. T3 is supposed to be about customization, and there are quite a few ways to make a shield-tanking Amarr ship or armor-tanking Caldari ship. Really, this doesn't change much, as a ship that is tanking one is only going to have a token HP buffer on the other, so you won't end up with double-tanked ships. 25% armor resists on a shield tanker adds next to nothing to the tank, so it's a pretty small price to pay to make those armor tanking versions work properly. 4) How big is the AB speed bonus? This is going to have to be HUGE to get an AB setup to be a useful option outside of deadspace fights. ???? Ok, take your post and put it all together. What are you asking for? You want a warp while cloaked ECM ship with the range/strength of a falcon for ECM and the ability to armor tank? Slap on one of theses, Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range and you can DPS from your ECM range. Anyone goning to fly anything else?
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.20 19:26:00 - [66] Originally by: Ashina Sito You want a warp while cloaked ECM ship with the range/strength of a falcon for ECM and the ability to armor tank? Slap on one of theses, Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range and you can DPS from your ECM range. Anyone goning to fly anything else? Stop and think for a second: who says you're going to get both ECM and cloaking on the same ship? In fact, since the most appropriate place for a cloaking bonus would be on the electronics subsystem (where the ECM bonus is), it's almost guaranteed that you would NOT be able to do that. And that's ignoring the issue of whether you could even fit the thing properly in the first place, hardly an irrelevant question when you'd need level V in a skill you're going to lose just to get the covops CPU down to a level where you can use a proper fit. -----------
BlackHorizon Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.02.20 19:35:00 - [67] Edited by: BlackHorizon on 20/02/2009 19:34:55 I hope we'll see some subsystems with fitting bonuses to gang warfare links soon.
Felysta Sandorn coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.02.20 19:38:00 - [68] Amarr are pretty much gonna keep getting shafted until I join CCP, I think... It's upsetting really... GIVE THE BHAALGORN MORE CPU! .: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.20 19:49:00 - [69] Originally by: Myra2007 Edited by: Myra2007 on 20/02/2009 17:56:00 Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need That bonus is 100% useless in pvp. Why is it that gallente get resistance bonus (amarr racial bonus) and amarr get a really crappy version of the gallente one(cap use vs. repair amount)? Should be either hitpoints or repair amount really. ? Yeah, I had that thought initially, but then I had another think - you culd, with rigs, have a ship with a repair bonus amount + repair bonus amount (rig), or repair cap need + repair bonus amount(rig). The second effect is pretty potent on a cruiser hull (limited cap). Really need to see the other 2 subsystems to comment further. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:08:00 - [70] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Loving the heat bonus. Perhaps make it a multiplier to amplify the skill (I need a reason to take it to 5 )? Amarr just needs two configurations: 1. The Brick of Doom with uber resists, and 2. The Gank Extraordinaire, with more guns than God. Throw in extra subsystems for ECM defense and you are good to go Looks good so far Nozh, but for Goddess' sake, make sure there are no obvious cookie cutter configurations. Game already has way to much of that crap with the idiotic plate/extender setups. How does 38! points of a non-racial sensor (Caldari instead of Amarr) type strike you, because that's what Electronics module #3 did on SiSi last time I checked.

Pavel Smasher Caldari R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:29:00 - [71] Edited by: Pavel Smasher on 20/02/2009 20:29:57 Originally by: CCP Nozh Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints Please, give gallente optimal range bonus, we need cruiser class sniper vessel badly :(
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:44:00 - [72] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope one of the remaining subsystems will have a cov ops cloak bonus I've been playing around with some cloak focused subsystems, but not Covert Ops. Velocity while cloaked + Removal of targeting delay... Honestly, *terrible* idea. Have you noticed how rarely black ops and stealth bombers are used, compared to force recons? This should tell you something about how useless non-covert-ops cloaks are in combat. When you can't warp in while cloaked, screwing around with a cloak just takes you out of the fight, putting your fleet down a ship. Everyone knows you're there, so why bother? I guess compared to some of the bonuses from the electronics systems (I assume it would go there) it's not bad, but compared to the ewar bonuses? Can you imagine anyone actually taking a worthless cloak over a web range bonus? I don't think so. Add the covops cloak, or just scrap the whole idea. Merin....your strong ability of not seeing potential is pretty Think small gangs. Think wormhole. Think lack of local. T3 Ships with these kinds of bonuses would make great surprise tacklers (if you're patient enough) Would make excellent solo gate campers as well. (provided the t3 ships are actually viable) Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. Whisper is now officially my hero.
Dwindlehop Uninvited Guests Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:47:00 - [73] Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 20/02/2009 19:34:55 I hope we'll see some subsystems with fitting bonuses to gang warfare links soon. So do I.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:55:00 - [74] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Loving the heat bonus. Perhaps make it a multiplier to amplify the skill (I need a reason to take it to 5 )? Amarr just needs two configurations: 1. The Brick of Doom with uber resists, and 2. The Gank Extraordinaire, with more guns than God. Hearhear! ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a PvP game. Adaptation is your survival.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.20 21:02:00 - [75] For those of you asking about the other two subsystems. While they obviously aren't there, their BPCs are. So it would seem likely that they're still planning on 5. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
True Ace Gallente Fat Bastards MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2009.02.20 21:35:00 - [76] good job ccp. once the cruiser get ironed out im quite sure in no more than two expansions we will see t3 frigs and battlecruisers. lol battleships dnt know if u would want to touch that one lol
Arana Tellen Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.20 21:41:00 - [77] So how do you know what each subsystem does to the slots? --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.20 21:58:00 - [78] Amarr engineering subsystem 3... Give you two high slots...and two more launchers/turrets It give you the high slots, I have 7, but it didn't give me two more turrets or launchers :( :( bug? Or do you think it wasn't intended to give you the extra launchers/turrets?
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.20 23:21:00 - [79] Originally by: IceAero Amarr engineering subsystem 3... Give you two high slots...and two more launchers/turrets It give you the high slots, I have 7, but it didn't give me two more turrets or launchers :( :( bug? Or do you think it wasn't intended to give you the extra launchers/turrets? Were you comparing vs some other subsystem that maybe already was giving something ? /Riv /Riv
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.20 23:26:00 - [80] Originally by: Rivqua Originally by: IceAero Amarr engineering subsystem 3... Give you two high slots...and two more launchers/turrets It give you the high slots, I have 7, but it didn't give me two more turrets or launchers :( :( bug? Or do you think it wasn't intended to give you the extra launchers/turrets? Were you comparing vs some other subsystem that maybe already was giving something ? /Riv Well sure, the offensive subsystems give you 4 or 5 slots, but engineering 1 says it gives you two more. log in and look :) It says : HIGHSLOTMODIFIER 2 TURRETHARDPOINTMODIFIER 2 META LEVEL 1 LAUNCHERHARDPOINTMODIFIER 2 I hope that it's supposed to give you two more turrets It gives you a LOT more PG, over 2000 total when using the subsystem and that's WAY more than you need, unless you want to fit 7 turrets

Jade Loengrim Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.20 23:47:00 - [81] Gut reply on Minties Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Sonorra Baki Edited by: Sonorra Baki on 20/02/2009 16:08:09 Minmatar defensive subsystem no.1 says resistance bonus, is that for shield or armor? Armor Um... you should try at least to be consistent with lore, tutorials and guide lines of ship design around : Minmatar are for instance like Caldari, more oriented on shield tanking (even if globally versatile), while Gallente/Amarr are more "generally" armor tanking ones. I shouldn't be the one to tell you it is all about keeping balances and interests between the warring blocks (Gal/Min vs Cal/Ama). That their tactical cruiser would go opposite way of the common training minmatar pilots got is perplexing to say the least... especially for a ship which should be the epitom of its racial design and small fleet. Guiding lines to check bonus lines against? I don't know, probably giving a wrong "advice" here, but perhaps look better at capital ships and structure designs to get an improved perspective of the difference between the main house of powers (I really mean the corporation styling their creations here). Don't think I'm alone imagining you already have a list of the whome bonus existing for each race and which one players/pilots are used to and which ones were advocated against most by argumented feedback in the past years of eve evolution. Anyway, good luck with everything... as far as I know, the fitting modifications on the different subsystems ar already a puzzle. Did someone thought about preparing a mini-site in flash to assemble your very own tactical cruiser... so you can dream and have a goal in mind when playing through the new content... which would be quite genial stuff for both ne players and vets... imo. (as well as being easier for everyone, you two (designers) included, to check the different possible configurations and bonus they give). Yeah yeah I know, the new fittign system should fill that role but since it is still even far from the level of quality we have with out-of-game fitting apps. Keep up the work, cheers and good luck if you want to have a satisfied player base on the 10th of march.... clock is ticking and agile won't save the day as many of us fear (lack of global view among the teams being the main drawback). Jade Loengrim
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.21 00:04:00 - [82] Although some of it has been said before, here are my opinions about the first round of bonuses- 5% heat damage reduction per level- That would make the guns (for instance) half as heat efficient as those on my Kronos (4 guns = 50% of the heat output of my Hyperion). I don't think that a 50% reduction is overpowered in the least. Up it to 10% per level. Amarr subsystem bonuses- Energy neut bonus is cool, particularly if there is a range bonus. Repair capacitor need is a joke. It doesn't improve peak tank, so unless it's something crazy like 15% per level so that you can run 2x medium reps for the same approximate cap use as half of one medium rep then I don't think it's going to do much good. Further more, you'd have to waste two slots just on reppers in order to benefit from something like this, and it would probably be more efficient to simply have a single rep and an additional plate or resist or whatever. Static EHP is what keeps you alive in PVP fights, not active tanks. Laser cap bonus? Just how much are we talking here? I dare you to make it something worthwhile like 7.5% per level. Gallente stuff- If the EW bonus is as good as the Arazu's it might be worthwhile. Blaster damage bonuses? It had better be one hell of a bonus to make T3 special. 5% per level isn't going to cut it. Drone bonuses? If the Proteus can't be configured to carry at least 250m3 worth of drones and 125m3 of bandwidth to use them, don't even bother. Nobody wants a billion ISK Myrmidon. Warp speed bonus? As in what? AU/sec? Or reduction in the time to achieve warp from a standing start? Either way, I don't think it serves much utility when compared to such things as an AB speed bonus. An AB speed bonus would be particularly useful for killing mission runners in deadspace when coupled with the warp disruptor range bonus. I'd really like to see a missile based offensive module for the Gallente ship. As well as a Damp bonused electronics module. Caldari bonuses- All of the bonuses look really solid, quite frankly. It'll be interesting to see what kind of peak damage we can get out of the Tengu. Will the missile damage bonuses apply to HAMs as well as heavy launchers? Minmatar bonuses- If you're going to do split weapon systems, you had better give it PLENTY of hardpoints to fit a full complement of either guns or missiles, or both. Grid and CPU will limit just how much DPS you can squeeze out of the ship. The key here is to be able to make a gun or missile ship with equal ease, while sacrificing nothing for the rest of the fit. Too bad the resist bonus for Minmatar will turn out to be nearly useless- adding racial Minmatar resists to armor is a joke. There will still be huge holes in it's resists. Fortunately we can probably just ignore that subsystem and use something else. If people are smart they'll just skill all four and use the one that proves out to be the best after everything has been thoroughly tested. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.21 00:08:00 - [83] Originally by: Jade Loengrim you should try at least to be consistent with lore, tutorials and guide lines of ship design around : Minmatar are for instance like Caldari, more oriented on shield tankin what game have you been playing
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.02.21 00:31:00 - [84] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Originally by: CCP Nozh Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range And once again Amarr are pre-nerfed with one bonus being taken up by laser capacity... Unless the capacity bonus is 15% per level, there is no way this is balanced. Another epic fail for CCP thinking about Amarr pilots... blaaa grow up. Apoc has cap usage bonus and this does not prevent it from being an OMFG awesome ship. Same about revelation.
Frances Ducoir Gallente GK inc.	Posted - 2009.02.21 00:38:00 - [85] Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 21/02/2009 00:41:53 * Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction * Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction * Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus compared to the other races prop system boni this is unbelieveable crap! Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus why falloff? rails have way more opt than falloff... ? only useful for blasters. if the Gall Offensive Subsys 4 or 5 both dont have an opt range bonus, please take this into consideration. other than that, the rest seems ok. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Frances Ducoir Gallente GK inc.	Posted - 2009.02.21 00:44:00 - [86] Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Originally by: CCP Nozh Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range And once again Amarr are pre-nerfed with one bonus being taken up by laser capacity... Unless the capacity bonus is 15% per level, there is no way this is balanced. Another epic fail for CCP thinking about Amarr pilots... blaaa grow up. Apoc has cap usage bonus and this does not prevent it from being an OMFG awesome ship. Same about revelation. second this. if you take into consideration, that amarr weapon systems already have awesome damage, tracking and range these boni are pretty decent and the cap bonus makes MUCH sense. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Creat Posudol Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.02.21 01:00:00 - [87] Edited by: Creat Posudol on 21/02/2009 01:02:43 Originally by: Perry * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount * Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 2 - Shield Boost Bonus * Caldari Defensive Subsystem 3 - Shield Hitpoint Bonus Anyone besides me thinking amarr got the shaft there with the repair cap need bonus? This bonus is so crap i dont know where to start complaining: 1) You need to fit a rep to benefit (amarr are not known for active repping) 2) You need to run the rep for a long time to benefit (pvp is not that long if T3 = primary) 3) You need an injector anyway cause nos/neut is a danger even if the bonus is 90% 4) when injector is fitted, bonus is useless 5) ergo bonus is useless / shaft / crap / dont like Replace it with Hitpoints like the Caldari get, or i will call you biased towards caldari! Do you want that? 1) well obviously, if you don't want/need one use a different subsystem 2) who on earth said this was intended for PVP? As someone who likes to run a mission every now and then I'd really like something like that, and depending on the other properties of the subsystems in use might very well prefer it over a repair amount bonus (example: to run 2 reppers). 3) again, this only applies to PVP 4) let me again bring the example of the dual reppers, but 5) whine So all in all you're complaining that ONE of the subsystems has a bonus not tailored to PVP? Have you noticed there's other stuff in that game? Actually I'd like to have that bonus for gallente instead of the drone-hp bonus (which I think is actually useless, and I'm a drone pilot), but I haven't looked at the other stats of the subsystem so they might well make up for that (read as: I'm not complaining about it).
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.21 01:39:00 - [88] Originally by: Bellum Eternus 5% heat damage reduction per level- That would make the guns (for instance) half as heat efficient as those on my Kronos (4 guns = 50% of the heat output of my Hyperion). I don't think that a 50% reduction is overpowered in the least. Up it to 10% per level. CCP, As I said before, and this poster realizes it as well, 5% heat bonus is NOT enough. 7.5 or 10% is the only thing that's going to make these ships something special, and worth training their skill to lvl 5. Originally by: Bellum Eternus Amarr subsystem bonuses- Energy neut bonus is cool, particularly if there is a range bonus. We DON'T need another Curse, but if this is a bonus to energy amount and cap usage, I sure PRAY that it's also a bonus to range. Legion can fit more neuts and has a better tank than the Curse, but it does so at the expense of damage, and it is a LOT slower than a curse, AND it lacks the TD bonus so it actually needs its tank for solo work. 37km neuts on a Curse, and let's say 17-20km for a Legion? that might be around the range they need. 12km isn't going to cut it and no one will use this module's bonus without a slight range bonus. Originally by: Bellum Eternus Repair capacitor need is a joke. It doesn't improve peak tank, so unless it's something crazy like 15% per level so that you can run 2x medium reps for the same approximate cap use as half of one medium rep then I don't think it's going to do much good. Further more, you'd have to waste two slots just on reppers in order to benefit from something like this, and it would probably be more efficient to simply have a single rep and an additional plate or resist or whatever. Static EHP is what keeps you alive in PVP fights, not active tanks. I'm actually ok with this bonus as long as it is much more than 5% per level. Defense subsystem 3 has some great resistances, and you can still have 6 low slots so putting two reps on is quite easy. Also being able to easily perm-run a single rep needs to be possible without a mandatory 3xCCC rigs, like it is now.
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.21 01:50:00 - [89] The repair cap bonus is 10% / level. The Amarr Offensive 1 Laser Cap / ROF is 10% / 10% level (yes, you read that right). /Riv /Riv
Caldreis Caldari White Star II	Posted - 2009.02.21 03:37:00 - [90] CCP Nozh have you ever consider that dual weapon would require at least more lows weapon damage modifier modules than other racials/minmatars offensive subsystem to sustain the same dps output? What would you do to make it the least useful subsystem? other than ignoring the obvious flaws -Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus Almost every single subsystem are focus around one major theme minus this one. I am only asking that will the line of thought that dual weapon with less stats be transfer over to tech 3 strategic cruiser? Otherwise most of it seem solid without stats to look at or compare. aka Naglfar with the worse slot lay out to support dual-weapon plus weakest tank I am not calling for a rebalance just want to know what the reason/thought behind putting up a dual-weapon offensive subsystem and what you see in it that make it great past the flexible idea. I do fly minmatar ship especially my medium laser fitted typhoon, don't ask why! so don't bother to flame me.

ghosttr Amarr THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.02.21 04:12:00 - [91] Spotted a few things that i didnt like from the start but ill keep my mouth shut till i see something on the test server (that is if i can ever get on it again during my tz)
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.02.21 06:57:00 - [92] I like that some bonusses are swapped between the races, this might be a motivation to fly T3 to some people who do want specific things (like the Amarr resists) but do not want to cross-train. After all versatility seems to be the core concept of the T3 ships. But please tell me that you forgot to add targetting slots to the T3 ships - being able to lock only two targets at once is a severe downer. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Aeo IV Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:34:00 - [93] What exactly is the point in giving cruisers a MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction bonus? Unless the bonus is insane, it's ultimately meaningless :/ I, for one, say drop it and give us a cap bonus :D.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:47:00 - [94] Unless they plan on fixing missiles to be antinano then the reduce sig bonus would make sense. ============= Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
Lijhal Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:02:00 - [95] Edited by: Lijhal on 21/02/2009 09:04:49 Electronic Subsystem Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire Amarr Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Amarr Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Amarr Electronic Subsystem 4 - Tracking Disruptor Amarr Electronic Subsystem 5 - Drone Bandwith Caldari Electronic Subsystem 1 - ECM Strength Caldari Electronic Subsystem 2 - CPU Output/Max Targeting Range Caldari Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Caldari Electronic Subsystem 4 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Caldari Electronic Subsystem 5 - Drone Bandwith Gallente Electronic Subsystem 1 - Warp Scramble Range Gallente Electronic Subsystem 2 - CPU Output/Max Targeting Range Gallente Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Gallente Electronic Subsystem 4 - Sensor Dampener Gallente Electronic Subsystem 5 - Drone Bandwith Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 1 - Stasis Webifier Range Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 4 - Target Painter Bonus Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 5 - Drone Bandwith Defensive Subsystems Amarr Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Amarr Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Amount Bonus Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Armor Hitpoints Bonus Amarr Defensive Subsystem 4 - Drone Hitpoint Bonus Amarr Defensive Subsystem 5 - Bonus to Armor amount from receiving Armor Transfer Caldari Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Caldari Defensive Subsystem 2 - Shield Boost Bonus Caldari Defensive Subsystem 3 - Shield Hitpoint Bonus Caldari Defensive Subsystem 4 - Armor Hitpoints Bonus Caldari Defensive Subsystem 5 - Bonus to Shield amount from receiving Shield Transfer Gallente Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 2 - Repair Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Hitpoint Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 4 - Armor Hitpoints Bonus Gallente Defensive Subsystem 5 - Bonus to Armor amount from receiving Armor Transfer Minmatar Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus Minmatar Defensive Subsystem 2 - Armor Repair Bonus Minmatar Defensive Subsystem 3 - Shield Boost Bonus Minmatar Defensive Subsystem 4 - Armor Hitpoints Bonus Minmatar Defensive Subsystem 5 - Bonus to Shield amount from receiving Shield Transfer Offensive Subsystems Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Turret Signature Resolution Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - Missile Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus Caldari Offensive Subsystem 2 - Missile Damage / Flight Time / Missile Velocity Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range Caldari Offensive Subsystem 4 - Hybrid Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus Caldari Offensive Sybsystem 5 - Missile Signature Resolution Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints Gallente Offensive Subsystem 4 - Drone Damage / Optimal Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Turret Signature Resolution Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 1 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Damage Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 2 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Falloff / Optimal Range Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 4 - Missile Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 5 - Turret Signature Resolution
Lijhal Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:04:00 - [96] Edited by: Lijhal on 21/02/2009 09:05:37 Engineering Subsystem Amarr Engineering Subsystem 1 - Power Output Amarr Engineering Subsystem 2 - Capacitor Capacity Amarr Engineering Subsystem 3 - Capacitor Recharge Rate Amarr Engineering Subsystem 4 - Armor Repair Capacitor Need Amarr Engineering Subsystem 5 - Logistic Drone Bonus Caldari Engineering Subsystem 1 - Power Output Caldari Engineering Subsystem 2 - Capacitor Capacity Caldari Engineering Subsystem 3 - Capacitor Recharge Rate Caldari Engineering Subsystem 4 - Shield Booster Capacitor Need Caldari Engineering Subsystem 5 - Shield Recharge Bonus Gallente Engineering Subsystem 1 - Power Output Gallente Engineering Subsystem 2 - Capacitor Capacity Gallente Engineering Subsystem 3 - Capacitor Recharge Rate Gallente Engineering Subsystem 4 - Armor Repair Capacitor Need Gallente Engineering Subsystem 5 - Logistic Drone Bonus Minmatar Engineering Subsystem 1 - Power Output Minmatar Engineering Subsystem 2 - Capacitor Capacity Minmatar Engineering Subsystem 3 - Capacitor Recharge Rate Minmatar Engineering Subsystem 4 - Armor Repair Capacitor Need Minmatar Engineering Subsystem 5 - Shield Booster Capacitor Need Propulsion Subsystem Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 3 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 4 - Drone Navigation Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 5 - Warp core Stab (with malus o/f) Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Agility Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 4 - Signature Reduction Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 5 - Warp core Stab (with malus o/f) Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 4 - Drone Navigation Bonus Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 5 - Warp core Stab (with malus o/f) Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Agility Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 4 - Signature Reduction Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 5 - Warp core Stab (with malus o/f) i think i hit it .... maybe ? what do you think O_o
Shin Chogan Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:44:00 - [97] Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ?
Freyya GeoCorp. Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:48:00 - [98] Tbh i would like to see one of the propulsion upgrades give a bonus to the boost of mwd/ab while retaining the same sig penalty. For close range vessels this would seem appropriate since they have to burn a long way sometimes and this helps to close the gap somewhat easier. Might make sense for a true close range specialized t3 ship no? I was planning on building an extensive modifiable database with all the slot layouts/cargohold/dronebay/bonuses for the proteus initially (will extend to other ships aswell but i have no skills for those) but since SiSi is down for a long time now i am unable to get going unfortunately ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Creat Posudol Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:49:00 - [99] Originally by: Lijhal [All Races] Electronic Subsystem 5 - Drone bandwith Actually I really doubt that. First of all not all races even use drones that much. Then I doubt they'll give a bandwidth bonus affected by a subsystem skill. MAYBE a bonus to ECM/Web drones or something similar for gallente, but a bandwidth bonus would most certainly be considered an offensive property since it directly affects the potential damage output. Also it requires the drone bay size to have a certain minimum size to be useful, which if I recall is defined by the defensive subsystem for some reason (don't remember where I read that exactly, or I would go check). Well, in any case drone bandwidth as a bonus from the electronics subsystem skill seems misplaced and unlikely. Originally by: Lijhal Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range Caldari Offensive Subsystem 4 - Hybrid Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus I doubt this as well, since the bonus from 4 obviously trumps the bonus from 3 for at least 90% of the cases. Unless the subsystem 4 has less turret hardpoints this seems unbalanced. Originally by: Lijhal Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints Gallente Offensive Subsystem 4 - Drone Damage / Optimal As with my previous point these bonuses seem too close together. Here I could imagine a bandwidth bonus instead if the drone bay size would in all cases be large enough to justify that. If not it's also unlikely and would reduce the possible useful combinations, since the usefulness of that bouns depends on the properties of another subsystem.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.02.21 10:05:00 - [100] There is something interesting I noticed. Max locked targets for T3 ships is 2 targets. Wonder if this is by design or just slightly overlooked when dishing out electronic subsystem bonuses. Granted one can compensate for it with auto targetes and signal amp II, but it's not like those ships have too many slots to spare. Have looked only Caldary ones so far - is it same for other races ? For remaining 2 subsystem one of the options is logistiks bonuses - ie remote shield/armor/cap transfer and spare utility slots. Or something more interesting like 'allied faction' weapon system bonuses to be able to make something similar to current pirate faction ships like nightmare - shield tanked laser ship or Khanid lineup - amarr missile ships. Altho those would not need to be in the first relase - perhaps afterwards we can get 'pirate t3' flawors. Something that takes 2 separate races skills to use.

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.21 10:07:00 - [101] I just want to see stuff like 5 heavy drone thoraxs, 6 gun zealots, slave setted ruptures. heh dunno exactly what I want to see from caldari, falcon/cerb hybrid maybe . if there is no gallente t3 drone boat better than the ishtar well...
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.02.21 10:35:00 - [102] For caldary I would like to see something that can do missions faster than current ships out there. I have messed around a bit with subsystems so far relased. The first 3 subsystem allow you to create something that is roughly in same ballpark as Drake at first glance ie 5 hi with rof and damage bonus, 7 meds (and enough grid for 4x LSE II and 3x Invul II) and 2 lows. Can't remeber from top of my head what subsystem they were (sisi offline atm). Downside however is max 2 locked targets - if it's by design then ofc no way in hell can those ships perform well in missions. Or well - perhaps gallente, as drones can do their stuff regardless of max locked targets on their carrier ship. Unless last 2 subsystems offer some better combination then T3 ships will not be 'worth it' for Lev 4 missions, seeing as their pricetag would be in the 1 bil ballpark most likley. For missionrunner it's more or less reasonable pricetag if performance is there to justify it. The ships they would be competing against in missions are Golem/CNR, Paldin/Nightmare, Nighthawk. The most relevant characteristiks would be (1) base damage output (ie EFT style max theoretical dps / volley damage) and ability to apply it to targets (2) tanking ability after doing reasonable damage (3) sensor characteristiks (lock range, lock speed, max targets locked) (4) drone characteristiks On the upside they have 3 rigslots that allow some additional playing room after subsystems have been picked.
Pac SubCom A.W.M	Posted - 2009.02.21 10:36:00 - [103] Originally by: CCP Nozh Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope one of the remaining subsystems will have a cov ops cloak bonus I've been playing around with some cloak focused subsystems, but not Covert Ops. Velocity while cloaked + Removal of targeting delay... Good news. Now on to the target painter bonus! --------------- ∞ TQFE
John Grimm Amarr Rendili StarDrive Yards	Posted - 2009.02.21 10:38:00 - [104] Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness But please tell me that you forgot to add targetting slots to the T3 ships - being able to lock only two targets at once is a severe downer. dam, i didn't even notices this, if it really is only 2 targets that's a major downside.
whoyoulookingat Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.02.21 10:57:00 - [105] Edited by: whoyoulookingat on 21/02/2009 10:59:08 Originally by: CCP Nozh Propulsion Subsystem Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Agility Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 1 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Damage Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 2 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Falloff / Optimal Range Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus Make sure to take into account the actual stats and slot modifications the subsystems give before judging bonuses too hard. I Lol'd at this one - Minny are supposed to be king of speed & (even now) rely on it to help keep us out of trouble.. so WTF is with the AB bonus?? Should really be an MWD sig reduction bonus Point 2: Only 1 damage bonus out of 3 slots whereas the other races get a minimum 2/3 slots with a damage mod thrown in?? I don't need to point out that based on current stats, these ships will be build for speed so AC's will be the weapon of choice. That means we're fighting in falloff so shafted yet again!! edited bit will edit this a few times as the stupid site keeps logging me out!! _____________________________________ Someone's swiped my avatar!!!
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2009.02.21 12:12:00 - [106] to all the people whining about the amarr armor rep cap use bonus.. i just have one thing to say: TRIPLE. REP. as for amarr getting shafted with the laser cap use bonus.. read all the bonuses! i read the first one and got mad myself, then i realized the other subsystems had THREE bonuses. the first system gives a large ROF bonus, while the others are the more traditional 5%. i have to say i like nearly all the bonuses presented. a few could use tweaking, but overall its a great start. oh, and the overall strategic cruiser bonus.. F_CKING AWESOME! that bonus will make these ships REALLY fun to fly. seat of your pants kind of stuff. i do hope that with the heat bonus we will see some of the annoying bugs ironed out of overloading. specific gripes: # Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire - this needs to be amount AND range otherwise its pretty much useless # Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 1 - Stasis Webifier Range - a lot of people have discussed a web strength bonus instead of range. perhaps a bonus to both, but smaller %'s? some player input is needed here. i dont fly the minmitar recons but i think higher web strength would be neat. #all defense system resist bonuses need to be BOTH armor AND shield. let these ships be truely versatile! # Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus - um.. no? minmitar #2 gets damage, optimal AND falloff. unless this is a BIG bonus this should change to optimal. # Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus - not the most useful bonus to be honest. the caldari #2 system as well. kind of meh. beside these, bravo. this looks to be a great addition! (take my subsystem gripes with a grain of salt and consider that im stading up for almost all ships that i do not and likely will not ever fly. i want to see them all used, even if that means they kill me better)
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.21 14:38:00 - [107] Originally by: EvilSpork to all the people whining about the amarr armor rep cap use bonus.. i just have one thing to say: TRIPLE. REP. as for amarr getting shafted with the laser cap use bonus.. read all the bonuses! i read the first one and got mad myself, then i realized the other subsystems had THREE bonuses. the first system gives a large ROF bonus, while the others are the more traditional 5%. i have to say i like nearly all the bonuses presented. a few could use tweaking, but overall its a great start. oh, and the overall strategic cruiser bonus.. F_CKING AWESOME! that bonus will make these ships REALLY fun to fly. seat of your pants kind of stuff. i do hope that with the heat bonus we will see some of the annoying bugs ironed out of overloading. specific gripes: # Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire - this needs to be amount AND range otherwise its pretty much useless # Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 1 - Stasis Webifier Range - a lot of people have discussed a web strength bonus instead of range. perhaps a bonus to both, but smaller %'s? some player input is needed here. i dont fly the minmitar recons but i think higher web strength would be neat. #all defense system resist bonuses need to be BOTH armor AND shield. let these ships be truely versatile! # Gallente Offensive Subsystem 2 - Hybrid Damage / Falloff Bonus - um.. no? minmitar #2 gets damage, optimal AND falloff. unless this is a BIG bonus this should change to optimal. # Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus - not the most useful bonus to be honest. the caldari #2 system as well. kind of meh. beside these, bravo. this looks to be a great addition! (take my subsystem gripes with a grain of salt and consider that im stading up for almost all ships that i do not and likely will not ever fly. i want to see them all used, even if that means they kill me better) The amarr Off 1 is 5% Cap / 5% ROF. FYI. /Riv /Riv
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.21 14:47:00 - [108] Amarr bugged Engeneering 1 -- The Amarr Susbystem Engeneering 1 reads in its description "+2 Turrets +2 Missiles". When you hover over the subsystem, the UI shows the turrets / missile hardpoints as yellow (will be added) and also 2 Highslots in yellow (to be added). When you actually fit the subsystem, you gain no missile & turrets hardpoints, but only 2 highslots which are not mentioned in the text. ---- Bug report 71252. /Riv /Riv
Vrikshaka 0ff-Peak Esoteric Cutthroats	Posted - 2009.02.21 15:46:00 - [109] Gogo Covops Cloak bonus...on at least one of the subs!
Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.02.21 15:53:00 - [110] Quote: # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range Amarr is the only race that doesnt get a double dmg bonus. (damage / rof). All other races do.

Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2009.02.21 15:56:00 - [111] Originally by: Creat Posudol Originally by: Lijhal [All Races] Electronic Subsystem 5 - Drone bandwith Actually I really doubt that. First of all not all races even use drones that much. Then I doubt they'll give a bandwidth bonus affected by a subsystem skill. MAYBE a bonus to ECM/Web drones or something similar for gallente, but a bandwidth bonus would most certainly be considered an offensive property since it directly affects the potential damage output. Also it requires the drone bay size to have a certain minimum size to be useful, which if I recall is defined by the defensive subsystem for some reason (don't remember where I read that exactly, or I would go check). Well, in any case drone bandwidth as a bonus from the electronics subsystem skill seems misplaced and unlikely. Why shouldn't every race be able to field a T3 drone boat? Why not have formerly other race specific concept bonuses be available to other races through T3? So, for example, swap the Caldari and Gallente EW bonuses - give the Caldari the Warp Scramble bonus and the Gallente an ECM ship! They should be as capable as the opposing T1 equivalent, but not match the T2 specialized ship. If I am Caldari and want to fly an ECM ship, I currently have plenty of options already without T3; but if I want to do some distance tackling I am SOL unless I cross train (clearly an option, but why not have the option of training for these expensive ships instead of another races?) I genuinely think it would be better if in T3 the racial specialties were broken out a bit. Drones for Caldari, Rail-Sniper for Gallente, Speed for Amarr, hard tank for the Minmatar. But that is just me. In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net
Janus Ovellian Minmatar Calpolli Namtz' aar K'in	Posted - 2009.02.21 16:26:00 - [112] Edited by: Janus Ovellian on 21/02/2009 16:26:14 nm Interesting times await...
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.02.21 16:31:00 - [113] Originally by: Aleyra Mel Quote: # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range Amarr is the only race that doesnt get a double dmg bonus. (damage / rof). All other races do. Thats because amarr guns naturally do more damage, but use alot more cap. Therefor they get cap reduction bonus usually. Anyway, am loving the t3 gallente ship on test server. Will definetly be flying it when prices get decent on tranq.
ChalSto LOCKDOWN. HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.02.21 16:37:00 - [114] Even with the best slot-layout, the Proteus isnt even able to match a HAC... ...even a Deimos did shredd it into pieces and max Dronebandwight 25??? on a gallente ship? cute CCP.....very cute Originally by: Agmar ----------------------------------------------- "The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens."
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.02.21 16:39:00 - [115] Oh yeah and the Gallente Offensive 3 has drone bonuses but no bandwidth atm.
Coltach SlingDraw Corp	Posted - 2009.02.21 16:42:00 - [116] I'm a little disappointed by these bonii tbh. They seem almost carbon copies of the races usual roles, seems to me they negate themselves. Caldari ECM bonus? whats the point, theres falcons for that. Gallente drone bonus? that would be the Ishtar. I've heard since this T3 thing started how T3 ships would be the ultimate in versatility, you'd never know what you were facing, but from these bonii that aint so. You may not know if that caldari dude is a sniper or an ecm or a tank, but it looks like it'll be one of those, always. Why not switch it up some, let us really play with the unexpected. Dronebays for the caldari, lasers for the matari, EWAR for the amarr. And if not, then a word on why would be really good. Why keep each race so focused on continuing the same things through each new iteration of tech?
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.21 17:48:00 - [117] Well I'm looking primarily at Proteus. Preferably due to increase, skill risk, cost, and everything. It ought to be better somehow; or why would I ever fly it otherwise? So best bet replacement seems to be all 3s except engineering. Which is 2, it could be 3 just fine. Which gives me 125m drone bay. Not enough for my tastes. Need at least 175m. and 125mbit obviously. Gallente Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Does this mean for eccm? Upon further reading drone dealings are going to be looked into. Definitely needs boost. As for the main ship bonuses. Overheating is nice but not that effective. How about some immunity to things. Cap warfare such as nos and neuts? Would be nice new feature of being immune to. Would give that super extra edge of tech 3 but not really overpowered that would make it so worth it in pvp. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.21 17:50:00 - [118] Originally by: Shin Chogan Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ? Lets say Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - 5% Missile Damage / 5% Rate of Fire Bonus vs Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - 10% Hybrid Damage Bonus Ultimately it's the same bonus. Except gallente have more alpha, use less cap and use less ammo. It's a good thing. Drones can be the off volley dmg. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Bobbechk The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.21 18:02:00 - [119] Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Shin Chogan Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ? Lets say Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - 5% Missile Damage / 5% Rate of Fire Bonus vs Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - 10% Hybrid Damage Bonus Ultimately it's the same bonus. Except gallente have more alpha, use less cap and use less ammo. It's a good thing. Drones can be the off volley dmg. yeah **** those missile launchers always cap me out ...
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.21 18:12:00 - [120] Originally by: Bobbechk Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Shin Chogan Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ? Lets say Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - 5% Missile Damage / 5% Rate of Fire Bonus vs Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - 10% Hybrid Damage Bonus Ultimately it's the same bonus. Except gallente have more alpha, use less cap and use less ammo. It's a good thing. Drones can be the off volley dmg. yeah ** those missile launchers always cap me out All the other races** get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ? Last I checked... Lasers use an aweful lot of cap. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.

Captator Empire Assault Corp	Posted - 2009.02.21 18:14:00 - [121] Originally by: Vrikshaka Gogo Covops Cloak bonus...on at least one of the subs! This ^ Please CCP give us some more covops ships
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.02.21 18:15:00 - [122] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 21/02/2009 18:56:00 /me searches for the Khanid offensive :( Please one HAM/HM bonus for Amarr offensivs. 5% flight time & 5% flight speed for HAM/HMs at offensive system 4 maybe? PS: enough % so that HAMs can reach about 30km with level 5 skills :). Originally by: Vaal Erit Spread your arms out and go "Brrrrrrrrrr" and then "fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap" Then takeoff!
Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.02.21 18:59:00 - [123] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Aleyra Mel Quote: # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range Amarr is the only race that doesnt get a double dmg bonus. (damage / rof). All other races do. Thats because amarr guns naturally do more damage, but use alot more cap. Therefor they get cap reduction bonus usually. Anyway, am loving the t3 gallente ship on test server. Will definetly be flying it when prices get decent on tranq. No they dont, lol, they did more damage because they had double bonus all this time, liek the zealot. They so got pwned now. You think pulses for example do more damage than blasters? I guess not. Btw to all those gallente whiners. Its a double damage bonus you ignorants. Its 10% instaed of 2 x 5% bonuses. Its the same. How nob can you be to not recognize that? Amarr on the other hand ARE the only race that got only a damage bonus, unlike all the other races, unless ofc thta bonus is 10% instead of 5%.... but i doubt.
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2009.02.21 19:21:00 - [124] Originally by: Rivqua The amarr Off 1 is 5% Cap / 5% ROF. FYI. /Riv someone earlier in the thread said it was 10%..
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.21 19:57:00 - [125] Originally by: EvilSpork Originally by: Rivqua The amarr Off 1 is 5% Cap / 5% ROF. FYI. /Riv someone earlier in the thread said it was 10%.. Yes, and I am correcting them because they don't know how to do math. /Riv /Riv
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.21 19:59:00 - [126] Quote: All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ? Last I checked... Lasers use an aweful lot of cap. Please show me the Amarr sub that has damage + rof. Please. With a cherry on top. /Riv /Riv
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.21 20:17:00 - [127] Edited by: Jason Edwards on 21/02/2009 20:18:24 Originally by: Rivqua Quote: All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ? Last I checked... Lasers use an aweful lot of cap. Please show me the Amarr sub that has damage + rof. Please. With a cherry on top. /Riv um... ok first you were just trolling to start. I responded. You are now butthurt because you were shown to be a fool. Now i show you the amarr sub that has rof aka more cap and ammo usage. Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus What a horribly fail troll you are. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.21 20:29:00 - [128] You said "All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ?" I don't see Amarr get Damage + ROF on ANY of their systems. I was not intending to troll. I am just tired of people saying untrue things. /Riv /Riv
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.21 20:55:00 - [129] I hope the Gallente Slot Layout is not final. Many of the Subsystems, kill off the Lowslots while giving Medslots, effectively making Gallente T3 really poor Shield Tankers. Too many of the Subsystems give Medslots instead of Lowslots at the moment and with many combinations you end up with more Med- then Lowslots at the moment.
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.21 21:00:00 - [130] I made a awesome droneboat with 5 Higs, 8 Mids, and 2 Lows. All you need in the lows is dmg control + optional, and it had T2 Shield resists ;-) oh and it was pretty :) /Riv /Riv

Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.21 21:10:00 - [131] Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Shin Chogan Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ? Lets say Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - 5% Missile Damage / 5% Rate of Fire Bonus vs Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - 10% Hybrid Damage Bonus Ultimately it's the same bonus. Except gallente have more alpha, use less cap and use less ammo. It's a good thing. Drones can be the off volley dmg. a 5% damage bonus and 5% ROF bonus is not equal to a 10% damage bonus. %5 damage/rof is more DPS than a 10% damage bonus. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
ghosttr Amarr THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.02.21 22:13:00 - [132] Originally by: Lijhal Stuff A few gripes * Amarr shouldnt have bonus to reppers, that a gallente thing. * Id really like to see bonus to ecm bursts for caldari (warp it into a blob and cycle 4-5 bursts = epic win * T3 racial ewar needs to be both range and effectiveness (besides caldari ofc)
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.21 22:37:00 - [133] After playing around with all races T3 Cruisers i think that the Bonus are too weak in some areas and the slots too extreme in most cases. For example, the Afterburner Bonus is on a relativ slow subsystem for Caldari, canceling it out. Dont do this kind of give/take, its T3, it will be fkn expensive, make it great! Another one, the Caldari Railboat has atm +5% optimal range, thats just abysmal. Ill take a 6mil isk Moa with proper 10% Range over this 1b isk junk if i need to snipe some pods. The Subsystems are also not really balanced, one giving 4 med slots, another zero, and so on. This leads to extremely ******ed layouts like 8 med slots zero lowslots and low cpu, making about 90% of possible combinations just garbage. Dont do this. Cap the Slot modifiers at 3 and spread the slot bonus/malus over the 5 Subsystems. Make every combination viable in some ways. Rule out the possibility of having zero medslots or lowslots.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.21 23:54:00 - [134] About proteus: I have been juggling around with offensive systems, but there has been no possibility to bring bandwidth above 25. Considering that both t1 combat gallente cruisers (thorax and vexor) have a bandwidth of at least 50, not to speak baout the HACs, does it make sense to not offer to at least on gallente subsystem some larger bandwidth?
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.22 00:33:00 - [135] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 22/02/2009 00:35:50 - hummm i assembled this weird loki with shield boost bonus and web bonus... apart from cap not recharging at all once reaching 0.0 cap (like... warping it dry), it had a whooping 3 med slots x_X - i tried the split setup with all sorts of other combinations (mostly aiming for extra low slots) and failed miserably. inferior to the rep fleet scythe in every possible way and that's disturbing - "signature tanking", as suspected, failed. supported by haloes and x-instinct, i had to flee from a <30km orbit around a beam BS. came back in a legion and did more or less fine. good to know that even the minnies among the officials are cheering for the opposing team now. - "range turrets" uhm... struggles to reach 1k m/s under "normal" circumstances. unless you utilize cosmos items that never drop on TQ. but ofc that's how the BH test stuff (and drop loot) should only be used with engineering sub 1 for the extra turrets. not exactly the thousands of possible new ships you're trying to sell. - probe cruiser (scan strength thingy)... would buy again - if it actually had the cpu. slot modifying sounds good at first, but quite useless if not backed up by the usual stats that come with them. first ship of mine (bar astro frigs) to actually get 100% on an oneiros (w/o eccm ofc) and ~90% on small (t2) drones would only recommend for hunting falcons though - if you can survive the rest of its fleet doubt -.- - putting the gist back into logistics
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.22 00:44:00 - [136] The "Scan strenght" thingy is actually a sensor strenght bonus, right? That's what I get it to, anyway, from testing. /Riv /Riv
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.02.22 01:24:00 - [137] Dont DARE to waste a T3 subsystem in a target painter bonus. People dotn evfen use the BELLICOSE and restrict themselves to vigil to udeploy target painters. NO way in hell gonna waste a t3 ship on that. I repeat do not DARE to waste a minmatar subsystem on that.
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.22 01:54:00 - [138] okay, seems like a lot of the configurations for the Legion result in a ship with no midslots whatsoever. Especially when using Electronic SS 1. The Tengu could do with a little tweaking, as well. Electronic SS 1 (with the ECM bonuses) at the moment restricts you to a very limited number of midslots. In fact, it's quite easy to create a Tengu with more lows than mids, which doesn't feel right for a Caldari ship. They're getting there, and just flying around admiring them (well, three of them) tonight's just cemented my desire to possess one - though at the moment, Legion is my personal favourite. A little tweaking and polishing, and they'll be great. I can hardly believe the number of bonuses you can stack up on these things. It's like assembling a CCG deck - with a good solid, synergistic combination, you'll have an outstanding ship in your stable. the Legion build I settled on looks like it's going to be a capacitor beast, although the firepower's going to be somewhat lacking on that particular setup. like I said, right now they just need some tweaking - a few more turret/launcher slots on some modules, maybe a hard-coded minimum of one slot so that you can't have a no-mids Legion, that sort of thing. In any case, I can't wait to get my hands on a TQ live tengu. I'll probably wind up getting a Legion as well. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Ydyp Ieva Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2009.02.22 02:19:00 - [139] Anyone else probably made the same statement as me, but gallente bonuses are at the moment to ****ed up. The Gallente offensive subsystem 3 get a bonus to drones, but if I fit it I don't even get any bandwidth with it! So what use is that bonus on that module if I need to use offensive subsystem 2 to be even able to launch a drone ----------------------------------
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.22 05:24:00 - [140] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Shin Chogan Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - Hybrid Damage Bonus All the other races get Damage + ROF why do Gallente only get Damage ? Lets say Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - 5% Missile Damage / 5% Rate of Fire Bonus vs Gallente Offensive Subsystem 1 - 10% Hybrid Damage Bonus Ultimately it's the same bonus. Except gallente have more alpha, use less cap and use less ammo. It's a good thing. Drones can be the off volley dmg. a 5% damage bonus and 5% ROF bonus is not equal to a 10% damage bonus. %5 damage/rof is more DPS than a 10% damage bonus. OMFG Gallente does 6.25% less dps! QUICK to the boost mobile. (srsly, 10% damage bonus is fine, it means you use 25% less cap, 25% less ammo and do 20% more volley damage for a loss of 6.25% dps(the horror)) -- stuff --

Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.22 05:54:00 - [141] bugs... Engineering 2 + propulsion 2 and afterburnner almost always results with no cap recharge, (although the client/UI displays the capacitor recharge and tool tip information) Workaround - turn of mwd Bandwidth poorly assigned to most ship combinations. Workaround - none Engineering 1 subsystem not providing +2 turrets/launchers Workaround - none Gallente engineering subsystem 1 - minus low slot wholly unnecessary and inconsistent with other races Workaround - none Suggestions Turn the 5% per level heat damage reduction strategic cruiser skill into 5% increases to overloaded state bonus per level. Why? Heat is a tactical mechanic that revolves around timings. Increasing the timings diminishes the focus on when, increasing the effect adds value and incentive to t3 ships and overloading. Add a base drone bay and bandwidth to every t3 cruiser. With offensive or engineering subsystems, increase the drone bay/bandwidth, eg base = 25m3/25mb subsystem stat +100m3/50mb or -25m3/25mb. Change gallente damage bonuses to somewhere between 10% and 12.5% pl Can you confirm that offensive subsystem 2's give tracking bonuses for all races as well? Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 doesn't work properly, or the bonus is far too small, it's also not very good, could give addition base speed, lower mass, more slots etc. Would recommend giving +/-10% increase to the base resists. Electronic subsystem 1 producing bonuses that are just not strong enough to warrant the ultimate slot reduction. With less slots much come bonuses that compete with racial recons, or provide more slots. The cargo bay of all t3 ships is insanely small - bug or feature? 2 Max locked targets? Electronic subsystems yet to have a defined max locked targets modifier? In most cases, it's easier to max out in off racial slots (8 low slots on the tengu, 8 mids on a proteus) All these ships, although with cruiser agility appear to have sleipnir speed? - It's very hard getting the Loki past 2.5km Covert op's cloakable electronic subsystem pretty please with icecream and cheery on top? Minmatar propulsion subsystem 1, mass reduction bonus instead of velosity bonus please? Or at least make it 10% PL. ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Aynen	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:39:00 - [142] The bonuses are the usual race-specific ones. (on the Electronic module these are ECM for Caldari, Warp Disrupter range for Gallente, NOS bonus for Amar and Webifier range bonus for Minmatar) but I was really hoping that due to the modular setup and adaptive nature of the ship-type, the designers would opt to allow people to break racial barriers here and for instance make a Gallente ship with ECM bonus, or a Minmatar with NOS bonus. This would make the tactical cruiser the only ship that doesn't really require cross training in order to make use of the weaponry and tactics that only the other races are normally good at. It seems however that this is not what the designers had in mind. Which tells me that the tech 3 cruisers will have to compete with the tech 2 ships, especially the Recons. From the innitial stats (which as I understand it are phrone to change) it does seem that these cruisers could be fit to become the next NANO-speed setups. But are we sure we really want those things back?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.22 08:22:00 - [143] Originally by: Roemy Schneider - probe cruiser (scan strength thingy)... would buy again - if it actually had the cpu. slot modifying sounds good at first, but quite useless if not backed up by the usual stats that come with them. first ship of mine (bar astro frigs) to actually get 100% on an oneiros (w/o eccm ofc) and ~90% on small (t2) drones would only recommend for hunting falcons though - if you can survive the rest of its fleet doubt -.- You get hits on drones probing? They haven't ben removed from the list of items that can be probed?
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.02.22 09:13:00 - [144] Originally by: Reatu Krentor OMFG Gallente does 6.25% less dps! QUICK to the boost mobile. (srsly, 10% damage bonus is fine, it means you use 25% less cap, 25% less ammo and do 20% more volley damage for a loss of 6.25% dps(the horror)) When I start firing I don't try to preserve cap or ammo, I try to give out as much hurt as possible. While using less cap helps with blasterboats who have to MWD into range first I usually prefer the dps. Which is better is dependent on circumstances - in a 1v1 the dps will rule, in an extended fight the cap reduction might actually cause more damage over time since there's less time spent waiting for the cap to rise again/less boosters used. shrug Overall I favor if everyone gets roughly the same stats, it prevents "OMG XYZ is soooo disadvantaged compared to ABC!" Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Firetale	Posted - 2009.02.22 10:35:00 - [145] Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 10:38:21 Read all before complaining! --- # Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire -> Tracking Disruptor (1) # Caldari Electronic Subsystem 1 - ECM Strength -> Targetpainting (2) # Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need -> Armor hitpoints (3) # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus -> Damage Bonus / Rate of Fire Bonus (4) # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus -> Energy Neutralazing / Vampire / Drone Damage (5) # Caldari Offensive Subsystem 2 - Missile Damage / Flight Time / Missile Velocity -> Damage Bonus / Explovelocity Bonus / Missile Velocity (6) 1: Why should people field this module if they cant use the Bonis from one of your propossed offensive Subsystems? Energy Neuts / Vampires take a highslot and since all offensive Subsystems for Amarr give Gun Bonis.... Change it to Tracking Disruptor. 2: Falcon is the perfect ECM ship, there is NO point at all for an ECM Subsystem, since its obvious that no one is going to field 100m or more insta popage without a Cov ops cloack. Give it a usefull Targetpainting Bonus instead. 3: Simply useless. Give it Armor Hitpoints. 4: Why would one use a Laser Capacitor / ROF Subsystem, if he can have a Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking/Optimal Subsystem ? Change it to RoF and Damage. 5: The Subsystem with Optimal is obviously superior, since you can stay out of range, change the useless one to Energy Neut / Vampire / Drone Damage to bring Capwarfare in again. 6: Missiles have enough range already, dont make crappy modules pls since Missiles suck at Long-rangecombat. Change the Flight time to Explovelocity. These are my suggestions for the existing and in my eyes, already broken, Subsystems.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:08:00 - [146] Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 10:38:21 Read all before complaining! # Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire -> Tracking Disruptor (1) 1: Why should people field this module if they cant use the Bonis from one of your propossed offensive Subsystems? Energy Neuts / Vampires take a highslot and since all offensive Subsystems for Amarr give Gun Bonis.... Change it to Tracking Disruptor. No. 100% No. Think about it for a moment. Electronic Subsystem - Neut Bonus + Offensive Subsystem - Laser Bonus Fit Lasers and neuts = win. Seriously - I can't believe this has to even be pointed out. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Firetale	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:27:00 - [147] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 10:38:21 Read all before complaining! # Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire -> Tracking Disruptor (1) 1: Why should people field this module if they cant use the Bonis from one of your propossed offensive Subsystems? Energy Neuts / Vampires take a highslot and since all offensive Subsystems for Amarr give Gun Bonis.... Change it to Tracking Disruptor. No. 100% No. Think about it for a moment. Electronic Subsystem - Neut Bonus + Offensive Subsystem - Laser Bonus Fit Lasers and neuts = win. Seriously - I can't believe this has to even be pointed out. C. You made me lol
Camdim Caldari The first genesis INTERDICTION	Posted - 2009.02.22 12:04:00 - [148] First I agree with those that say we should break some molds on the racial bonuses. A way to do that IMHO would be to make the subsystems usable on any ship chassie. So if you have the skills for ammar electronics subsystem but fly a min hull you could still attach the ammar electrontics subsystem. This would give us the ultimate in configuration and allow the use of many skills that people have cross training for. As well as making every T3 a total unknown. Or atleast unknown until people learn to Identify the various configurations.
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.22 12:37:00 - [149] Edited by: Kalintos Tyl on 22/02/2009 12:38:55 sorry if you end with 5% resist vs 7,5% amount, everyone knows that 5% resist is better all way long. minmatar missile and projectile rof? 5% each ? no one will use that either. Any cap amount for repers/boosters wont be used either. Afterburner bonus ? Umm. So far best bonuses got caldari and galante. 60D GTC - shattared link
Creat Posudol Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.02.22 13:32:00 - [150] Originally by: Firetale # Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need -> Armor hitpoints (3) 3: Simply useless. Give it Armor Hitpoints. Of for gods sake, stop assuming every ship only exists for PVP. This is quite useful in PVE, and quite a good bonus for that. Try looking outside your own bubble for a moment, there are more things in EVE than just PVP!

Firetale	Posted - 2009.02.22 13:39:00 - [151] Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:39:43 Originally by: Creat Posudol Originally by: Firetale # Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need -> Armor hitpoints (3) 3: Simply useless. Give it Armor Hitpoints. Of for gods sake, stop assuming every ship only exists for PVP. This is quite useful in PVE, and quite a good bonus for that. Try looking outside your own bubble for a moment, there are more things in EVE than just PVP! I for myself am a missionrunner and no, only a nub would choose a capacitor bonus over a rep amount bonus. Its always easier to fit a Cap Recharger to gain more cap then fit another Repper to get more tankable dps...
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.22 13:40:00 - [152] Originally by: Firetale Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 10:38:21 Read all before complaining! # Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire -> Tracking Disruptor (1) 1: Why should people field this module if they cant use the Bonis from one of your propossed offensive Subsystems? Energy Neuts / Vampires take a highslot and since all offensive Subsystems for Amarr give Gun Bonis.... Change it to Tracking Disruptor. No. 100% No. Think about it for a moment. Electronic Subsystem - Neut Bonus + Offensive Subsystem - Laser Bonus Fit Lasers and neuts = win. Seriously - I can't believe this has to even be pointed out. C. You made me lol Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Firetale	Posted - 2009.02.22 13:48:00 - [153] Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:49:40 Originally by: Cailais Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank. C. I still would like to see that CCP gives you enough PG to fit it with Cruisersized stuff and I would like to see you sitting there like a chicken, because you cant provide yourself with enough cap. Sure, it would be awesome, but dont assume that CCP is going to allow options for pwnships that pwn everything and everyone with easy. Best example Ashimmu.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.22 14:01:00 - [154] Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:49:40 Originally by: Cailais Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank. C. I still would like to see that CCP gives you enough PG to fit it with Cruisersized stuff and I would like to see you sitting there like a chicken, because you cant provide yourself with enough cap. Sure, it would be awesome, but dont assume that CCP is going to allow options for pwnships that pwn everything and everyone with easy. Best example Ashimmu. From the stats on sisi so far (admittedly subject to change) PG shouldnt be an issue - and you can always fit rigs for additional PG. and why couldn't you provide yourself with enough cap?? My curse / pilgrim are fine and dont cap out - why should a T3 ship be any worse off??? C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Firetale	Posted - 2009.02.22 14:49:00 - [155] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:49:40 Originally by: Cailais Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank. C. I still would like to see that CCP gives you enough PG to fit it with Cruisersized stuff and I would like to see you sitting there like a chicken, because you cant provide yourself with enough cap. Sure, it would be awesome, but dont assume that CCP is going to allow options for pwnships that pwn everything and everyone with easy. Best example Ashimmu. From the stats on sisi so far (admittedly subject to change) PG shouldnt be an issue - and you can always fit rigs for additional PG. and why couldn't you provide yourself with enough cap?? My curse / pilgrim are fine and dont cap out - why should a T3 ship be any worse off??? C. As is said, it would be a bit to awesome and if you want such a ship to exist, then youre just addmiting that you dont have any sense for balancing. Either way, there is no need for pwnships, just get it.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.02.22 17:54:00 - [156] Originally by: CCP Nozh Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus HOOOORAY We totally need another triple split weapon system! They work so awesome! Spending both bonuses so all highslots have a single one is cool! Honestly, with the addition of the Fleet Scythe, you yourself Nozh, admitted that these things do not work in practice. Back then, you're argument was the equivalent of "Lalalla we do it anyway". Could you please explain why we have to suffer through this again? Think Fleet Stabber, think cruiser autocannon platform.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.22 19:33:00 - [157] Originally by: Mioelnir Originally by: CCP Nozh Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus HOOOORAY We totally need another triple split weapon system! They work so awesome! Spending both bonuses so all highslots have a single one is cool! Honestly, with the addition of the Fleet Scythe, you yourself Nozh, admitted that these things do not work in practice. Back then, you're argument was the equivalent of "Lalalla we do it anyway". Could you please explain why we have to suffer through this again? Think Fleet Stabber, think cruiser autocannon platform. you don't have to fit damage mods in the lows. that's the secret. Plus it can be useful when your tracking disrupted, as your missle will still hit, or if your damped you can fit FoF missles. you can also use drones. IT's not as good, but these ships add something to eve. not every ship needs to be the ame ship. just give these piece something cool like... 50 drone bandwith or such, so the slipt weapon system might be wroth fitting for something else. also maybe make it 7.5% per level? seems like with the skill loss on the line these can be more beefy here and there. :) ok I got another idea, Give some subsystems bonuses to fitting things like guns, or shield mods. So you could fit more guns as they take 50% less powergrid. or something like that. But then you have to risk that level 5 skill.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.22 21:02:00 - [158] Originally by: Firetale Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:49:40 Originally by: Cailais Sure - if you think it would be a useless ship fine - but consider facing the equivalent of a curse with 2 bonused neuts and say 4 or 5 bonused beam lasers. And with a better tank. C. I still would like to see that CCP gives you enough PG to fit it with Cruisersized stuff and I would like to see you sitting there like a chicken, because you cant provide yourself with enough cap. Sure, it would be awesome, but dont assume that CCP is going to allow options for pwnships that pwn everything and everyone with easy. Best example Ashimmu. From the stats on sisi so far (admittedly subject to change) PG shouldnt be an issue - and you can always fit rigs for additional PG. and why couldn't you provide yourself with enough cap?? My curse / pilgrim are fine and dont cap out - why should a T3 ship be any worse off??? C. As is said, it would be a bit to awesome and if you want such a ship to exist, then youre just addmiting that you dont have any sense for balancing. Either way, there is no need for pwnships, just get it. These ships will cost, on average, around 500mil ISK. They'd better be pretty darn good. I think we'll probably see a TD bonus subsystem as subsystem 4/5 anyway - so its something of a moot argument. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.22 21:06:00 - [159] Originally by: Cailais if one can't beat 2 tech one battleships I would cry.
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.22 21:15:00 - [160] Since ccp has managed to create Tech II Battleships which are actually worse then their Tech I hulls, i have little hope in Tech III living up to expectations...

Manfred Rickenbocker The Elliance	Posted - 2009.02.22 21:59:00 - [161] Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 22/02/2009 22:02:00 Originally by: CCP Nozh Gallente Electronic Subsystem 1 - Warp Scramble Range Is this to both Warp Scramblers and Warp Disruptors? Originally by: CCP Nozh Gallente Offensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Damage / Hitpoints Gallente Defensive Subsystem 3 - Drone Hitpoint Bonus These wont be stacked against each other will they? Gallente DS3 might be better served with a drone bay m3 bonus like the Ishkur/Eos to fit racial flavor, but I hate those bonuses to begin with. Compared with the other races Gall. DS3 needs to be an HP bonus, or copy the Amarr rep cap bonus. (Edit) If all will be an HP bonus, should the armor % bonus be higher than the shield % bonus to account for shield recharge adding to tank? Originally by: CCP Nozh Amarr/Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Amarr/Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Isn't Scan Resolution and Scan Strength functionally the same thing? Seems like for the bonus, Id rather fit ElecS2 since it can potentially help boost tank. I also feel bad for Gallente and Caldari since they dont get this option. Originally by: CCP Nozh Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Seems silly because speed should functionally outweigh the signature penalty. That is unless its a large bonus, say 10% per level. Originally by: CCP Nozh (any) Propulsion Subsystem # - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus I presume that's capacitor need to initiate warp? I don't know who would take that module for that bonus, and warp speed is silly if you use gang warp. Agility is 100% better because it will change the time needed to get into warp and warp speed is meaningless for a skilled solo pilot. Another note on the Propulsion Subsystems, try and keep the bonus' to similar subsystems together. Amarr 1 is agility, 2 is AB bonus (no MWD?), 3 is MWD sig. Caldari is 1 agility, 2 warp, 3 AB speed. Etc Etc. Do this: 1) Agility, 2) Velocity, 3) MWD/AB Velocity or Cap After that, put the appropriate slots together (should be easy to swap the attributes) and it seems to flow a bit better. My 2cents, Thanks! ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Aylara	Posted - 2009.02.22 22:33:00 - [162] I would rather take an armor amount / resistances bonus for my proteus, rather then repair amount bonus.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.22 23:29:00 - [163] Originally by: Aylara I would rather take an armor amount / resistances bonus for my proteus, rather then repair amount bonus. then the system is working as intended. YOU pick your favorite set up.
Y3R M4W	Posted - 2009.02.23 00:14:00 - [164] For 'Amarr Engineering Subsystem 2' - the cap capacity bonus is sort of useless as it has a good 200 less cap than Subsystem 3, which gets a recharge bonus, so general cap ammount/regen will always leave Subsystem 3 on top. Note: YER MAW! is Scottish for Your Mother.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.23 02:44:00 - [165] Originally by: Y3R M4W For 'Amarr Engineering Subsystem 2' - the cap capacity bonus is sort of useless as it has a good 200 less cap than Subsystem 3, which gets a recharge bonus, so general cap ammount/regen will always leave Subsystem 3 on top. Agreed. This subsystem needs to have a HUGE cap, with a crappy recharge. Subsystem 3 should always give a better recharge #, but subsystem 2 needs like 2x the cap it has now. This can be said for most races.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.23 03:44:00 - [166] can be said for every choice of amount vs recharge... rigs, mods, even skills been trying to find out the reasoning behind that for 3 years now... no luck at least none that explains the size of the discrepancies - putting the gist back into logistics
Vina Caldari Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.23 03:57:00 - [167] Originally by: Firetale 2: Falcon is the perfect ECM ship, there is NO point at all for an ECM Subsystem, since its obvious that no one is going to field 100m or more insta popage without a Cov ops cloack. Give it a usefull Targetpainting Bonus instead. **** off. ----------------------------------- my opinion is my own.
Gerard Deneth Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2009.02.23 04:29:00 - [168] Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Originally by: CCP Nozh Amarr/Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Amarr/Minmatar Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength Isn't Scan Resolution and Scan Strength functionally the same thing? Seems like for the bonus, Id rather fit ElecS2 since it can potentially help boost tank. I also feel bad for Gallente and Caldari since they dont get this option. I believe the Scan Strength bonus refers to exploration probes rather than a ship's onboard sensor equipment... ---------------------------- The Game's always changing under your feet; don't start moaning when you get a toe caught in the gears.
rgreat Gallente OEG GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 05:55:00 - [169] Edited by: rgreat on 23/02/2009 06:00:19 Tried Amarr and Gallente T3 ships. Well, they both suck big time. Gallente even better then amarr. Why? cause they cannot tank at all. Not very fast, cannot do much damage, too little slots (like on t1 cruiser or less), low/none drone bandwich (25! m3 with drone subsystem on Proteus, lol). EWAR/Neut bonuses are weaker compared to Curse/Lachesis. In fact anything in them is weaker compared to Curse/Lachesis. You can't even beat drake on T3. ;) I guess it is because its only 'work in progress' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Creat Posudol Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.02.23 09:31:00 - [170] Originally by: Firetale Edited by: Firetale on 22/02/2009 13:39:43 Originally by: Creat Posudol Originally by: Firetale # Amarr Defensive Subsystem 3 - Repair Capacitor Need -> Armor hitpoints (3) 3: Simply useless. Give it Armor Hitpoints. Of for gods sake, stop assuming every ship only exists for PVP. This is quite useful in PVE, and quite a good bonus for that. Try looking outside your own bubble for a moment, there are more things in EVE than just PVP! I for myself am a missionrunner and no, only a nub would choose a capacitor bonus over a rep amount bonus. Its always easier to fit a Cap Recharger to gain more cap then fit another Repper to get more tankable dps... A cap recharger requires a slot, what if you don't have one to spare? This bonus might also enable you to permarun 2 reppers instead of one, boosting your rep amount by far more than a bonus could. It also greatly depends on the size of the bonus, just don't dismiss it before we have actual stats and could run a few numbers.

Dristra Amarr Idle Haven	Posted - 2009.02.23 09:40:00 - [171] Sure hope this is work in progress indeed, as it stands these tech III ships have to many unnecessary penalties associated with them. Basically you are better off with a tech II ship or even a tier 2 bc Originally by: CCP Atropos the physics engine has balls I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Freyya GeoCorp. Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.02.23 09:50:00 - [172] Been fiddling with the Proteus for a while now and i must say that alot of subsystem sets give a very strange and not viable slot layouts. I have been able to find ONE set that is good in 1vs1 with a decent 5-5-6 layout but the rest is just simply eaten alive no matter how you fit it. And believe me i've tried alot of fits. I really think the layouts need revision.. If you fit a certain subset according to bonusses (like warpscramble range/resistance bonus/cap recharge/hybrid damage,falloff bonus/recharge rate/mwd,ab cap usage bonus just to pick something that could be used as an advanced tackler or something) you get a totally weird slot layout which is either paper thin or just doesn't have the midslots to fit everything required to lock down a target or something like that. I even managed to construct a set with 125m3 dronebay but no bandwith to use it...which brings me to the fact that drone bandwith should be available in the info tab of the respective subsystem which it currently isn't. Only visible once you've already constructed a set. It would also help if the + and - slots bonus should be clearly visible when you're making a subset and it would help if the OP is updated with the current amount of bonus % per level you get. Hell, tbh it would help immensely if we could get a spreadsheet that lists all the information available on bonusses,attributes,layout modifiers etc.etc. which could get updated once all the stats and such get updated for a new sisi build. Could bring testing and balancing to a whole new level i think.. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Response Unit	Posted - 2009.02.23 11:16:00 - [173] Caldari Electronic Subsystem: make one of these a target painter bonus mod. Caldari could really use a dedicated target painting ship.
Asmodean Reborn Kurtz's Kommandos	Posted - 2009.02.23 11:29:00 - [174] I really thought that T3 would allow for any subsystem to be fitted on any race ship (provided you have the skill). Like was said previously, these ships tend to follow the general theme of the race (Amarr armor tanking/neuting/using lasers) which doesn't really allow for the completely versatile setups that were suggested. Would it be too unbalanced if, for instance, you could have an ECmM fitted blaster-ship? Or a proper nano-laserboat? Or a damping artillery-ship? I love the new T3 stuff and it's a pita getting it balanced, but it seems like we're just going to be getting slight variations on ships we already have. I know it would also be impossible for the art department as you'd have a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeediculous amount of possible setups to create models for, but i'm sure things could be done to get around this problem. I'll be testing the Legion and Loki on sisi later as so far all i've done is speculate.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar M. Corp	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:41:00 - [175] Originally by: rgreat Edited by: rgreat on 23/02/2009 06:00:19 Tried Amarr and Gallente T3 ships. Well, they both suck big time. Gallente even better then amarr. Why? cause they cannot tank at all. Not very fast, cannot do much damage, too little slots (like on t1 cruiser or less), low/none drone bandwich (25! m3 with drone subsystem on Proteus, lol). EWAR/Neut bonuses are weaker compared to Curse/Lachesis. In fact anything in them is weaker compared to Curse/Lachesis. You can't even beat drake on T3. ;) I guess it is because its only 'work in progress' what? Lol try again. You can make ships that tank as much as a command ship. HInt active tanks are better on those ships.... ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Meha Mott Minmatar Carebear Research and Produktion Agency	Posted - 2009.02.23 14:03:00 - [176] These ships will cost, on average, around 500mil ISK. They'd better be pretty darn good. I think we'll probably see a TD bonus subsystem as subsystem 4/5 anyway - so its something of a moot argument. C. 500 Mill ? i think you should triple the price atm. The Gas cloud harvest part alone will be around 700 Mill compared to the momentary SiSi prices. If they don't change a lot, we will have another Black Ops disaster. Pre nerved into oblivion compared to the price tag. Sorry for my bad english. Sorry for my bad english.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.23 17:25:00 - [177] Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Electronic Subsystem: make one of these a target painter bonus mod. Caldari could really use a dedicated target painting ship. sure... give minnies some jamming bonuses so we can jam better (from 100km+ ofc) and do so for ages with our nano. - putting the gist back into logistics
Nethras Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.02.23 18:02:00 - [178] Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Originally by: CCP Nozh Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Seems silly because speed should functionally outweigh the signature penalty. That is unless its a large bonus, say 10% per level. The only current bonus of that type is on ceptors and is 15% per level, so odds are it will be a fairly significant bonus, yes.
Potrero Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.02.23 19:42:00 - [179] Is it possible to build a Lokibond? Can you create the Vagabond stats with a Loki? I think this would be an interesting exercise. If possible we could see how well balanced the T3 ships are. Right off the top I could see 3 advantages: - Heat buff - 3 rig slots versus 2 for a HAC - Ability to skill up for 5 sub systems rather than just falloff and damage for the HAC Wonder if anyone has tried this to see how the two ships would compare side by side.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.23 20:38:00 - [180] humm sry, the propulsion mods dont differ much except for the bonus. currently they don't look speedy... at all - below bc - putting the gist back into logistics

rgreat Gallente OEG GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 20:48:00 - [181] Edited by: rgreat on 23/02/2009 20:52:49 Edited by: rgreat on 23/02/2009 20:50:32 Originally by: Kagura Nikon what? Lol try again. You can make ships that tank as much as a command ship. HInt active tanks are better on those ships.... Huh? It is either low reistances (same as on T1 ships! ) or no slots/capacitor to actually fit a decent active tank. If you make 7-8 med or low slots your ship will totally suck outside being 'decent T1-BC type tank'. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DEATHEVIL Minmatar Eve Corporate Enterprise Virtual Alliance Core	Posted - 2009.02.24 07:11:00 - [182] Edited by: DEATHEVIL on 24/02/2009 07:11:08 hello ccp can u remake the loki because it really sucks an the res is rubish then a t1 cruiser lol only with 3 lows an 4 mediums slots cant tank nothing at all was fine when it had 6 lows 3 mediums my PC POWNS ALL xD!!!
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.24 08:01:00 - [183] Dont worry, everything will get fixed. Remember how Blackops and Stealthbombers got there much needed balancing!
DEATHEVIL Minmatar Eve Corporate Enterprise Virtual Alliance Core	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:05:00 - [184] Originally by: Perry Dont worry, everything will get fixed. Remember how Blackops and Stealthbombers got there much needed balancing! ya lol ^^ my PC POWNS ALL xD!!!
Dristra Amarr Idle Haven	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:07:00 - [185] Can someone post the most powerful setup they have managed to cram together to now? Would be nice comparing such a setup with the performance of existing Tech 2 ships. Originally by: CCP Atropos the physics engine has balls I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2009.02.24 13:41:00 - [186] Originally by: CCP Nozh Propulsion Subsystem Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 3 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Agility Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Agility Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Make sure to take into account the actual stats and slot modifications the subsystems give before judging bonuses too hard. Why didnt Gallente get a Velocity or at least Agility Bonus on a Subsystem? MWD Signatur Radius Penalty isnt usefull for ships that MWD in Range and than turn out the MWD(at least not very much), same as the Cap use Reduction. It might be ok for a Droneship that works from range but it is pointless for close range ships. I mean even Amarr gets a Velocity Bonus. Faster Med Range Snipers than Short range Cruiser? I realy dont get it. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Exlegion Caldari New Light	Posted - 2009.02.24 15:18:00 - [187] Originally by: CCP Nozh I've been playing around with some cloak focused subsystems, but not Covert Ops. Velocity while cloaked + Removal of targeting delay... Will this idea make it out in time for M10? On a side note, the beauty of these modular ships is that instead of having to come up with new ship classes every so often you could just come up with new subsystems we could toy around with. For example, how about adding some subsystems to create salvage ships, or dedicated probe ships, not necessarily better than the T2 cov ops, but better than the average "joe" ship. You could even add subsystems to create cyno/jump capable cruisers. Add some subsystems for remote assistance... The possibilities are almost endless. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.24 15:20:00 - [188] Originally by: Exlegion The possibilities to create obsolete T3 cruisers that are more often then not worse then Tech I cruisers are almost endless. fixed
Exlegion Caldari New Light	Posted - 2009.02.24 15:32:00 - [189] Originally by: Perry Originally by: Exlegion The possibilities to create obsolete T3 cruisers that are more often then not worse then Tech I cruisers are almost endless. fixed I have to disagree with you here. Personally, I rather have a modular ship which can be used to probe/salvage/PVP/mission by simply adding/removing subsystem parts than have to buy and fit one for each one of these tasks, even if the modular version may not be as good. Basically I'm sacrificing a little performance for convenience (saves time and isk). One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.24 15:49:00 - [190] we will see how much isk that t3 saves you

Sigras	Posted - 2009.02.24 17:08:00 - [191] i think one of the main things the T3 ships are going to have going for them is the surprise. When you scan down a T3 ship, you could be facing a heavy assault ship, a recon or a heavy dictor. where as if i scan you down in an ishtar, i immediately know that you have a 5-5-5 slot layout with 5 heavys/ sentry drones and 250 more M^3 worth of drones to deal with
Dochas	Posted - 2009.02.24 17:36:00 - [192] Originally by: Exlegion I have to disagree with you here. Personally, I rather have a modular ship which can be used to probe/salvage/PVP/mission by simply adding/removing subsystem parts than have to buy and fit one for each one of these tasks, even if the modular version may not be as good. Basically I'm sacrificing a little performance for convenience (saves time and isk). By convenience (saves time and isk) you mean wastes time and costs isk then yes you are correct. You still have to dock and swap out the modules as opposed to having a salvage ship fit and a pvp ship fit and a mission ship fit all just sitting there ready to switch into. And that t2 frig or cruiser for pvp, your cov ops, salvage rigged hurricane and mission HAC or CS is gonna be cheaper then your t3 "convenient" ship.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.02.24 21:32:00 - [193] Originally by: Sigras i think one of the main things the T3 ships are going to have going for them is the surprise. When you scan down a T3 ship, you could be facing a heavy assault ship, a recon or a heavy dictor. where as if i scan you down in an ishtar, i immediately know that you have a 5-5-5 slot layout with 5 heavys/ sentry drones and 250 more M^3 worth of drones to deal with Does it matter what you find? If you are sac pilot you will web him, spam missiles, turn on reppers. Doesnt matter if he is recon/hic/dic/coc/hac/whatever - you always do the same. If you fly ishtar - exactly as above. Same for deimos, muninn. Other "lighter" ships will just use their own preferred tactics but i doubt they will change dependant on enemy load out. If you are in damp ship you will always damp and scram (arazu), if you are in curse/grim you will always TD+neut... its not like you have other choice. Plus there is reason why people make "all round" setups for hacs/recons - just to be sure noone can "surprise" you. This means that t3 surprise wont work either.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.24 21:59:00 - [194] I just noticed, the heat bonus isn't actually on the server yet?
rgreat Gallente OEG GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.24 22:10:00 - [195] Edited by: rgreat on 24/02/2009 22:17:11 Edited by: rgreat on 24/02/2009 22:16:49 Originally by: The Djego Why didnt Gallente get a Velocity or at least Agility Bonus on a Subsystem? MWD Signatur Radius Penalty isnt usefull for ships that MWD in Range and than turn out the MWD(at least not very much), same as the Cap use Reduction. In fact signature bonus on MWD is completely uselless on cruiser. You are still just as easy to hit with cruiser class weapons, while battleship and above class still will not hit you due to tracking/velocity problems. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.02.24 22:44:00 - [196] Originally by: rgreat Edited by: rgreat on 24/02/2009 22:17:11 Edited by: rgreat on 24/02/2009 22:16:49 Originally by: The Djego Why didnt Gallente get a Velocity or at least Agility Bonus on a Subsystem? MWD Signatur Radius Penalty isnt usefull for ships that MWD in Range and than turn out the MWD(at least not very much), same as the Cap use Reduction. In fact signature bonus on MWD is completely uselless on cruiser. You are still just as easy to hit with cruiser class weapons, while battleship and above class still will not hit you due to tracking/velocity problems. Depends on bonus. Ceptor one enables you to MWD under one (and two) grades higher missiles without taking too much damage. I imagine (cba to count it atm) that MWD sig bonus would help a bit with mwd-speedtank vs cruises/torps and maaaybe a bit vs heavy/HAMs.
torN Deception GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.24 22:59:00 - [197] Edited by: torN Deception on 24/02/2009 23:00:26 Originally by: Sigras i think one of the main things the T3 ships are going to have going for them is the surprise. When you scan down a T3 ship, you could be facing a heavy assault ship, a recon or a heavy dictor. What the ** are you talking about? T3s can't fit cov ops cloaks. They can't fit warp disruption generators. If you scan down a T3 ship you know you're about to blow up some moron in an underperforming overexpensive toy. It's like the whole blackops debacle times 10. T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a ** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar M. Corp	Posted - 2009.02.24 23:53:00 - [198] Originally by: torN Deception Edited by: torN Deception on 24/02/2009 23:00:26 Originally by: Sigras i think one of the main things the T3 ships are going to have going for them is the surprise. When you scan down a T3 ship, you could be facing a heavy assault ship, a recon or a heavy dictor. What the ** are you talking about? T3s can't fit cov ops cloaks. They can't fit warp disruption generators. If you scan down a T3 ship you know you're about to blow up some moron in an underperforming overexpensive toy. It's like the whole blackops debacle times 10. T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a ** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty. ooo did you missed the part where you can make a cuiser that deals 470 dps and can tank 630 dps perma running that setup? ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Amarr Holymight Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.25 00:36:00 - [199] T3 ships will be great for players with too many skillpoints and too much ISK so I spose they are a reward for dedicated long term players to take Eve to another level. Whether they perform to this level will remain to be seen, it would be helpful if we could all be given level V subsystem skills on SISI so we can test out the ships in a more workable state, plus even with the skillqueue I'm getting sick of retraining them after constant mirrors.
ShadowGod56	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:20:00 - [200] Originally by: Amarr Holymight it would be helpful if we could all be given level V subsystem skills on SISI so we can test out the ships in a more workable state, plus even with the skillqueue I'm getting sick of retraining them after constant mirrors. this

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:39:00 - [201] CCP! please force in at lest 4 pieces now!! please please please? right now we'll only have about 1000 new ships insted of 13,000 : ( with 4 pieces each at lest it will be more awesome, right now it's just... I fear we won't see the next update with these ship parts untill winter. or 2 years. Sorry it's just you have a track record.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:40:00 - [202] Originally by: Kagura Nikon ooo did you missed the part where you can make a cuiser that deals 470 dps and can tank 630 dps perma running that setup? Like an ishtar with a passive shield tank... ? ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.02.25 01:41:00 - [203] Originally by: MotherMoon CCP! please force in at lest 4 pieces now!! please please please? right now we'll only have about 1000 new ships insted of 13,000 : ( with 4 pieces each at lest it will be more awesome, right now it's just... I fear we won't see the next update with these ship parts untill winter. or 2 years. Sorry it's just you have a track record. Amen. Come on CCP, don't make promises you can't keep! You should have known this would be tough to balance, right? ____________
cins	Posted - 2009.02.25 05:50:00 - [204] MOAR Gallente drone bandwidth! Ples n tnkx
ShadowGod56	Posted - 2009.02.25 06:18:00 - [205] Originally by: cins MOAR Gallente drone bandwidth! Ples n tnkx some caldari bandwidth please!
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:35:00 - [206] Edited by: Stitcher on 25/02/2009 11:43:08 Originally by: torN Deception If you scan down a T3 ship you know you're about to blow up some moron in an underperforming overexpensive toy. It's like the whole blackops debacle times 10. T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a ** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty. Have you ever considered the possibility that you might be wrong**? Last time I checked, tech 1 ships didn't manage to stack anything up to about ten or twelve bonuses on top of each other simultaneously. Okay, so the slot layout changes per subsystem still need a little rebalancing here and there, but that's why it's called a TEST SERVER. Christ mate, the way you're complaining you'd think they'd gone live with them already. oh yeah, and for the guys asking for more subsystems on the test server - leave it out guys. Let them have a FEW surprises for release day. My guess is that the reason all 5 aren't on SiSi isn't because they don't exist, but because CCP would prefer to leave a few surprises in there for March 10th. the same rule applies to the guy complaining about the lack of a Gallentean velocity bonus subsystem: You have no idea what subsystems 4 and 5 will do, so don't complain like it's already gone live - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.

CCP Dionysus	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:55:00 - [207] Originally by: torN Deception T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a **** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty. Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope.

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:10:00 - [208] Originally by: CCP Dionysus Originally by: torN Deception T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a **** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty. Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. If they aren't better than tech 2 get all 5 pieces in :( 200 possible ship combination is not broader in scope.
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:20:00 - [209] Originally by: CCP Dionysus Originally by: torN Deception T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a **** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty. Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. What sort of price category are you looking for to balance them around? The way it's looking atm based on what is known of the production of the ships/subsystems, meaning prolly as expensive as T2 if not more expensive(more likely more expensive). So if they're not "better" then T2(or at least on par with) it doesn't look like they're gonna be worth it. If they're targeted at being between T1 and T2 in price (let's say between 15-100M for a completed hull) then to me it seems like the whole production chain is a lot of effort for the intended value of the end product. -- stuff --
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:24:00 - [210] Huginn vs scythe. What can they do special? Web bonuses ftw. That's some real special stuff. No other tech 1 ship has that ability to do that. Pilgrim is nos. arazu is damps Falcon is the only one who isnt really special; however undoubtedly it runs the game well. Deimos is a baby brother megathron with the same sort of punch. Ishtar is a baby brother dominix with the same sort of punch. What does tech 3 really do special? Heat isnt that great because often your target is worth far less then what it'll cost to repair your modules afterwards. 5 bonuses which 99% of the time people wont train to 5 because of the potential of dieing and losing 3 days of training. On top of that... do these bonuses really make you equivalently better then tech 2... thusly justifying the use of tech 3? I really dont think they do yet. Personally I havent trained thermodynamics on any char. Dont plan to. If I'm in a fight where overheating is going to change the outcome of the fight. I'm ultimately at fault already. It's blob or be blobbed; though # of falcons/bb also matter. Overheating wont mean anything. Tech 3 needs something special. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.

Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:29:00 - [211] Originally by: CCP Dionysus Originally by: torN Deception T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a **** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty. Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. What do you mean by "broader in scope" ? For me, that would mean, broaden your horizons. Example. Amarr armour tanking ECM boat, Caldari nosing shildtanking drone boat, "cruiser sized cov ops warping probe bonused salvaging ship". That would be broaded in scope, no? It's not better, but it's different, broader. Or does broader in scope mean, You can dps while nosing and ecming, at the same time, because there are already lots of ships that can do that (points at the drake, myrm, hurricane). If they had slightly bigger bonuses to example nos / rof / etc, like 7.5% or even 10%, to offset their extreme fragility, fine. Then you know you have glass boats that can perform if protected. But they are not that. If they had unique abilities other ships don't posses, that offsets their mediocre dps, and cost/effectivness ratio, fine, but I don't see that. Someone smart said "I liked the HICs, they introduced a new mechanic, a new way to play, and they introduced a new ship to go along with that". What do T3 bring to the table? Say your (CCPs) goal with T3 was versatility not on the basis of new cool bonuses, but on basis of being able to swap mods to the task, being to switch mid mission. We all gear for low sig / speed to get somewhere in a big roaming gang in 00, when we get there, we can't refit, because you are not allowed to refit in space. So far (hard, somewhat, because even after reverse engeneering the % of the bonuses, there are so many (build 806xx) non working subysystems, it's not been possible to test ships.) I don't think we've seen plausible setups that can even compete with T2. Or even T1 BCs, which are cheaper, very close in maunverability since the speed adjustments, and top speed. But, it would be really awesome if you showed us some examples of your design goals, and how you went about fulfilling them. Maybe a dev blog on the design goals and steps of T3, testing on flexibility and balancing ? _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:35:00 - [212] Originally by: CCP Dionysus Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. Tech 2 is pretty balanced in price. Tech 3 is coming from a non-constant high risk 0.0 source with uber rats instead of passive pos mining :). Tech 3 is going to be uber expensive. Would be more intelligent to fit tech 2 with deadspace in that case. So unless tech 3 will be going 3km/s and tanking 600dps @ 150m sig... and 500dps The ships wont be good and thusly wont be used for pvp anyway. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:37:00 - [213] @Jason Edwards Holy boop, man. It's rare for me to disagree with EVERYTHING a person says, but.... PvP is more than just "bring more friends than the other guy, work through the target list in alphabetical order, f1-f8, repeat". Heat makes a BIG difference in small fights where every 5% counts, and that's where Strategic Cruisers are going to be at their most valuable - small-scale gang fights of five or six people where having a ship that, for example, can both ECM and shoot hard at range is going to be very useful Three days? OH NOES D: tech1 ships: 2 bonuses Tech 2: 4 bonuses Tech 3: six bonuses or more. A player wearing a full set of level fives in the subsystem skills is going to be getting a HUGE performance boost out of the ship, especially if they're wise with the ship fitting window and build their ship out of subsystems with a lot of synergy. You're thinking exclusively in terms of 0.0 warfare, where I imagine tech 3 WILL be less useful. in smaller-scale or solo PvP, though, where the contribution of each individual pilot means more, they're going to have a very interesting effect indeed. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:45:00 - [214] People always fail to account that bonuses are only bonuses, if the baseline is the same. If the T1 ship has 7 launchers and 25% dmg, and the T3 ship has 5 launchers and 25% dmg 25% rof, the T1 ship still has more dps. Just saying. /Riv _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---
Kiotsu Adler	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:56:00 - [215] Originally by: CCP Dionysus I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. Then, sorry to say, but you're failing blatantlly at this. First and foremost, there isn't ANY fuction T3 ships can do right now better than their T2 counterparts (heck you can't even build proper recon ships due to not be able to fit covert op cloaks). One of the promises of T3 was its fuctionality, but due to not be able to refit in space, this is almost gone, as it's now is easy to see the capabilities of T3 just checking which race it's done. The variability of the fits is limited due to the bonuses being based primarilly on the racial features of each race, this is something I would change to add some chaos and deception (which should be, IMO, one of the main points of T3). Make them stronger, faster or whatever. Seriouslly, there is a lot of room between cruiser class hulls and BS hulls performance, you don't need to make T3 ships like BS, but there is room to make them a little better than T2 in some aspects. Make them gang oriented, where T3 ships flying together give bonuses etc. so we can have soem sort of wolfpacks. Put more enphasis on overheating maybe, icnrease that fancy bonus a bit. Are you seriouslly considering people will pay as 5 times or more for a ship that is a glorified T2 ship? In this EVE of blobs? Except a minority, it won't happen. And them being a bit overpowerred won't change nothing, as its offset by their risks (skill lose + huge money lose) and blobs which will blow up T3 regardless (and BD will still be the best fleet ship whatever you do unless you screw badlly).
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.25 13:24:00 - [216] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 25/02/2009 13:27:43 If you don't want them to be fundamentally different functionality wise, or superior capabilities wise, than t2/t1, get rid of the additional risk/cost. Get rid of sp loss on death, make production a carbon copy of t2 and stop pretending that the risk vs reward balance for t3 will measure up to anything near parity. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=999994 Originally by: Pattern Clarc I come from the position that things are balanced pretty well. Beyond the perennial calls for nerfs and boosts that we all take part in, the game has settled into some sort of equilibrium in which most ships have there place. So my basic question is, what has changed in EvE to demand t3? Beyond adding another layer of complexity in the fitting mini game, what dent could t3 cruisers give to eve when instead of offering new roles and niches and changing the face of PvP, much like tier 2 battlecruisers and tier 3 battleships where designed to fill none existing niche's, the selling point of strategic cruisers seems to be that they provide shades of grey between the various fittings and ships we're accustomed to? I talked about how strategic cruisers where set up for either substantially raising the bar, or being a waste of time for all involved because there was no indication of something different coming, whether it was true heat based driven combat, ships that adapted to specific environments over time or other completely left field mechanics. ____ My Blog Is Awesome
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:09:00 - [217] I say move sideways, put in crazy bonuses that no ships get. then make them BASE as good as a tech 2 cruiser. Now you have crazy tech 2 ships but they are tech 3 in tech because they can do new things no other ship can. I'm talkign crazy fitting bonuses for random modules. like... 20% per level to effectivness of PDUs Or.... 20% more hull hp per level. crazy things that no one has ever seen before.
Sigras	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:22:00 - [218] Originally by: Kiotsu Adler Originally by: CCP Dionysus I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. First and foremost, there isn't ANY fuction T3 ships can do right now better than their T2 counterparts didnt he just say not necessarily better . . . way to listen and read Originally by: Kiotsu Adler Make them stronger, faster or whatever. Seriouslly, there is a lot of room between cruiser class hulls and BS hulls performance, you don't need to make T3 ships like BS, but there is room to make them a little better than T2 in some aspects. there you go with that better theme again Originally by: Kiotsu Adler Make them gang oriented, where T3 ships flying together give bonuses etc. so we can have soem sort of wolfpacks. Put more enphasis on overheating maybe, icnrease that fancy bonus a bit. Are you seriouslly considering people will pay as 5 times or more for a ship that is a glorified T2 ship? In this EVE of blobs? Except a minority, it won't happen. And them being a bit overpowerred won't change nothing, as its offset by their risks (skill lose + huge money lose) and blobs which will blow up T3 regardless (and BD will still be the best fleet ship whatever you do unless you screw badlly). i think theyre about as serious as your English grammar
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:29:00 - [219] Originally by: CCP Dionysus What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. They should provide options I can't get out of that races T2 and be at least equal to T2. There isn't going to be strategic hot-swapping going on in most cases. Squadrons are going to have to be balanced to begin with and it is doubtfully a T3 pilot is going to carry additional modules that he could lose along with skill points. You show pictures and try to sell the 'racial' fleet in ads; so fill holes in the racial fleets using T3. While the Rail version of the Rook may be nice, a Caldari Drone boat and Scrambler/Disruptor boat would fill a need that doesn't exist within the ship choices. @ Jason Edwards - there are 2 Caldari Recons, the Rook and the Falcon - in terms of ECM capability they are equal; which is why we see the Falcon more than the Rook. In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net
Kiotsu Adler	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:54:00 - [220] Originally by: Sigras Troll Yeah forgive me, I'm not english at least I can write something usefull, make a ****ing point or don't answer at all? Ok, listen, little troll, that they haven't made them better does not mean they can't make them better, if it's all about risk & potential why don't give them some potential so they are worth the risk? Grasp it. You either understand this or not: as it's now this is an other failure like T2 BS, too muich money for little gain, add over that potential SP lose (and for these ships to be barelly worth it you will have to train subsystems to lvl5). Apart of making their stats better overall I suggested other stuff, like mixing bonuses from other races to make them unpredictable, give them a slightlly better overheating bonus, or refitting in space (I know this won't be possible but). Also a lot of other guys suggested other stuff that should make them worth it. Now go away trolling or post something usefull?

Sigras	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:19:00 - [221] Originally by: Kiotsu Adler Ok, listen, little troll, that they haven't made them better does not mean they can't make them better, if it's all about risk & potential why don't give them some potential so they are worth the risk? Grasp it. ok, listen big troll . . . they just stated the dont want to make them better; not haven't, not cant, but dont want to grasp it Originally by: Kiotsu Adler Apart of making their stats better overall I suggested other stuff, like mixing bonuses from other races to make them unpredictable, give them a slightlly better overheating bonus, or refitting in space (I know this won't be possible but). Also a lot of other guys suggested other stuff that should make them worth it. i actually agree with this Originally by: Kiotsu Adler Now go away trolling or post something usefull? next time read the posts you respond to and i wont have to correct you
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:22:00 - [222] Originally by: CCP Dionysus Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. I think you should look at it from the other side: Just how expensive are they going to be? A/ Assume anyone doing something in worm-hole space is going to want to earn at least 30 millions isks per hour worth of stuff. Because if it pay less, you might as well rat or mine rare ores, or even lvl4 in empire. B/ Compute total production cost for the finished product, assuming that at each step of the production, players will add a reasonnable 20% margin to te price of the stuff they bought to prod their things. C/ When you have the production cost, that should give you a pretty accurate idea of just how good the ships should be, compared to T2 HAS and Command Ships. Trying to tell you right now what level of performances we expect of the ships is pointless, because we don't know what it takes to build one. We don't know if we'll see T3 cruisers on market at 200 millions/unit or 800 millions. I can only tell you that if they are basically field command ships on cruiser-sized hulls, I won't buy them if they cost more than 280-300 millions. ------------------------------------------
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:32:00 - [223] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: CCP Dionysus Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. I think you should look at it from the other side: Just how expensive are they going to be? A/ Assume anyone doing something in worm-hole space is going to want to earn at least 30 millions isks per hour worth of stuff. Because if it pay less, you might as well rat or mine rare ores, or even lvl4 in empire. B/ Compute total production cost for the finished product, assuming that at each step of the production, players will add a reasonnable 20% margin to te price of the stuff they bought to prod their things. C/ When you have the production cost, that should give you a pretty accurate idea of just how good the ships should be, compared to T2 HAS and Command Ships. Trying to tell you right now what level of performances we expect of the ships is pointless, because we don't know what it takes to build one. We don't know if we'll see T3 cruisers on market at 200 millions/unit or 800 millions. I can only tell you that if they are basically field command ships on cruiser-sized hulls, I won't buy them if they cost more than 280-300 millions. Although it's possible to work out a baseline price, there eventual cost is determined by the market, and completely dependant on how awesome they may or may not be. So your better off describing how they could be better or what you want. ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:43:00 - [224] Originally by: Jason Edwards Huginn vs scythe. What can they do special? Web bonuses ftw. That's some real special stuff. No other tech 1 ship has that ability to do that. Pilgrim is nos. arazu is damps Falcon is the only one who isnt really special; however undoubtedly it runs the game well. Deimos is a baby brother megathron with the same sort of punch. Ishtar is a baby brother dominix with the same sort of punch. What does tech 3 really do special? Heat isnt that great because often your target is worth far less then what it'll cost to repair your modules afterwards. 5 bonuses which 99% of the time people wont train to 5 because of the potential of dieing and losing 3 days of training. On top of that... do these bonuses really make you equivalently better then tech 2... thusly justifying the use of tech 3? I really dont think they do yet. Personally I havent trained thermodynamics on any char. Dont plan to. If I'm in a fight where overheating is going to change the outcome of the fight. I'm ultimately at fault already. It's blob or be blobbed; though # of falcons/bb also matter. Overheating wont mean anything. Tech 3 needs something special. I agree with all points EXCEPT overheat. Overheat bonus for t3 hull is dull (or at least too weak).25% from lv5 strategic cruiser heat damage reduction will give you like 33% more time? So instead of 1 minute you will get 1 minute 20 seconds? Thats well... weak. Most combats (even 1v1 with cruisers) last longer than that. Try giving em total 50%-75% heat reduction and suddenly they will become quite good in short engagements (note: engagements not ganking one target) but wont be able to use heat for 24/7. But long enough to make BIG difference. And yes mate - train heat. At least level 2. Overheated webs/scrams/reps DO matter and they matter a LOT. More often than not they mean difference between death and life. Back to t3 ships: maybe some kinky bonuses we dont have on ships yet? Astrometric cruisers was good start. Siege cruisers? Damage over time? Bonus to damaging capitals (even +100-200-300%). Just random ideas. And remove stupid skill loss. Its bad idea reducing usefulness of those ships to small lowsec skirmishes only. Currently they are "maybe" tad better than t2 ship with all skills lv5. And lv5 skill loss will hurt.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:49:00 - [225] Originally by: MotherMoon I say move sideways, put in crazy bonuses that no ships get. then make them BASE as good as a tech 2 cruiser. Now you have crazy tech 2 ships but they are tech 3 in tech because they can do new things no other ship can. I'm talkign crazy fitting bonuses for random modules. like... 20% per level to effectivness of PDUs Or.... 20% more hull hp per level. crazy things that no one has ever seen before. It might work. But one thing: crazy not stupid/useless :)
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:04:00 - [226] Originally by: Shadowsword I can only tell you that if they are basically field command ships on cruiser-sized hulls, I won't buy them if they cost more than 280-300 millions. Well, remember they are more flexible overall than current ships. So say you buy the subsystems for a Caldari T3 ship and it costs you 800 million ISK. For that you can mix and match it into numerous configurations. To do all the same things you can with those subsystems in a variety of configurations you'd need to buy 5 (or whatever) different ships. Those costs add up. Additionally, if you lose your ship you only lose those 5 subsystems. You may have more subsystems in your hangar still allowing you to form a new ship. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:08:00 - [227] Edited by: Marlenus on 25/02/2009 18:09:24 Originally by: CCP Dionysus Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. I was hoping -- back when I still thought there were two more sets of subsystems coming with this feature -- that there would be a wider variety of slot patterns and bonuses. For instance, I'd hoped we'd see a subsystem with a cargo space bonus (or a couple of extra lowslots for expanders) so I could make a T3 mining cruiser. Or, I'd hoped for a subsystem with extra utility slots high, so I could make a T3 salvage boats with lots of tractors and salvagers. Likewise, lots of people have been wanting a science vessel with exploration bonuses. Hacking, archeology, that sort of thing. I could go on and on. There are all kinds of ships that people want that aren't currently in the game. Since we've already got a surfeit of cruisers that can, you know, do cruiser stuff, the hope was that T3 would enable us to Lego up the unique ships we've been wanting. Instead, it looks like we got a conservative design where none of the parameters can be tweaked very far outside the existing pattern for cruisers. Maybe one or two slots more or less in any row, but other than that, all the bonuses are the same sort of bonuses, in the same amounts, that are already available in a pre-made ship for that race. There's no wild-card options that I can see. ------------------ Ironfleet.com
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:17:00 - [228] Edited by: Rivqua on 25/02/2009 18:17:16 Originally by: CCP Nozh Caldari Offensive Subsystem 1 - Missile Damage / Rate of Fire Bonus Caldari Offensive Subsystem 2 - Missile Damage / Flight Time / Missile Velocity Caldari Offensive Subsystem 3 - Hybrid Damage / Optimal Range Could we get a clarification on the Caldari Offensive 1, I can for the life of me only find a 2.5% rof bonus, and no missile damage bonus! Is this intended? Also, could we get a short list of the changes done in todays content update, CCP Dionysus? Thanks! /Riv _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---
Lijhal FrEE d00M Fighters	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:39:00 - [229] hey cpp well, after testing and playing on sisi for the xxx times, iam a little bit disapointed about the tech 3 ships ... the new effects are great (aside from the new blaster turrets (serpetins)), but overall really solid and nice graphics!! love it But, rather then giving us subsystems with the typical racial bonuses, why not giving everyone everything ? this would be truly customizability if i can choose a caldari-webifieing-armor-missile boat or an amarr shield-laserjunkie-ecm cruiser... Why cannot we get something like that ? the offensive subsystems should be racial ... but all others should be for all 4 races the same ... that would be EPIC!! Ship Bonuses - 7,5% Heat Damage Reduction Per Level Subsystem Bonuses Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire Amount & Range (xx% p.lvl) + Scan Res (static) Electronic Subsystem 2 - Warp Scramble Range (xx% p.lvl) + Sensor Strength (static) Electronic Subsystem 3 - Turret Disruption Strength (xx% p.lvl) + drone bandwith (static) Electronic Subsystem 4 - ECM Strength (% per level)+ Targeting Range (static) Electronic Subsystem 5 - Stasis Webifier Range (% per level) + Signature Radius Reduction (static) Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus (both shield & armor) Defensive Subsystem 2 - Shield Hitpoint Bonus Defensive Subsystem 3 - Armor Hitpoint Bonus Defensive Subsystem 4 - Shield Boost Bonus Defensive Subsystem 5 - Armor Repair Amount and so on for the Propulsion and Engineering subsystems Racial Offensive Subsystem should be the only one which provides racial bonuses ( i.e. missiles/hybrid for caldari, hybrid/drones for galente etc) only my2isk
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:42:00 - [230] Originally by: Lijhal hey cpp well, after testing and playing on sisi for the xxx times, iam a little bit disapointed about the tech 3 ships ... the new effects are great (aside from the new blaster turrets (serpetins)), but overall really solid and nice graphics!! love it But, rather then giving us subsystems with the typical racial bonuses, why not giving everyone everything ? this would be truly customizability if i can choose a caldari-webifieing-armor-missile boat or an amarr shield-laserjunkie-ecm cruiser... Why cannot we get something like that ? the offensive subsystems should be racial ... but all others should be for all 4 races the same ... that would be EPIC!! Ship Bonuses - 7,5% Heat Damage Reduction Per Level Subsystem Bonuses Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire Amount & Range (xx% p.lvl) + Scan Res (static) Electronic Subsystem 2 - Warp Scramble Range (xx% p.lvl) + Sensor Strength (static) Electronic Subsystem 3 - Turret Disruption Strength (xx% p.lvl) + drone bandwith (static) Electronic Subsystem 4 - ECM Strength (% per level)+ Targeting Range (static) Electronic Subsystem 5 - Stasis Webifier Range (% per level) + Signature Radius Reduction (static) Defensive Subsystem 1 - Resistance Bonus (both shield & armor) Defensive Subsystem 2 - Shield Hitpoint Bonus Defensive Subsystem 3 - Armor Hitpoint Bonus Defensive Subsystem 4 - Shield Boost Bonus Defensive Subsystem 5 - Armor Repair Amount and so on for the Propulsion and Engineering subsystems Racial Offensive Subsystem should be the only one which provides racial bonuses ( i.e. missiles/hybrid for caldari, hybrid/drones for galente etc) only my2isk Why have the racial offensive systems? Let the bonuses be 5% to turret damage, any turret, any size. If you want to stick small lasers on your caldari missile boat, so be it. /Riv _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---

SSteejans Blanchards Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:49:00 - [231] Edited by: SSteejans on 25/02/2009 18:49:01 WHERE ARE SUBSYSTEM 4 AND 5???? _______________ if CCP's logs really never show anything, i have to wonder, do they even have logs?
Aya Vandenovich	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:50:00 - [232] Originally by: SSteejans Edited by: SSteejans on 25/02/2009 18:49:01 WHERE ARE SUBSYSTEM 4 AND 5???? 4 and 5 have been held back until after the release of Apocrypha. Somewhere In England
Lijhal FrEE d00M Fighters	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:52:00 - [233] Originally by: Rivqua Why have the racial offensive systems? Let the bonuses be 5% to turret damage, any turret, any size. If you want to stick small lasers on your caldari missile boat, so be it. /Riv because a gallente pilot maybe hasnt trained lasers or a amarr pilot doenst have spended sp's into hybrid gunnery ... thats the point of the racial offensive subsystems ...
Kalidann Caldari Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:57:00 - [234] I've been doing some fittings on sisi and found that on the legion's amarr offensive subsystems the laser cap reduction bonus is actually the opposite. Instead of reducing the cap it takes to fire my lasers, it actually increases them by 5% per level.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:22:00 - [235] Edited by: fuxinos on 25/02/2009 20:26:10 Tengu horribly lacks CPU in any setup.... despite many configs arent even useable in pvp. Legion lacks CPU AND PG to no end... any setup and has no damage potential at all. I mean, whats the point of giving it a single damage bonus on each subS if it only has 4 turrethardpoints? And if you choose the powergrid subS you get +2 turretharpoints, but its unfitable for anything decent since you lack cpu. Ç: The RoF bonus from Caldari Offensive System 1 doesnt apply at all.
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:23:00 - [236] Originally by: SSteejans Edited by: SSteejans on 25/02/2009 18:49:01 WHERE ARE SUBSYSTEM 4 AND 5???? Not happening - apparently they will be brought out at a later date (soon tm). Lets go on the optmistic side and say Dec 2010. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:26:00 - [237] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: MotherMoon I say move sideways, put in crazy bonuses that no ships get. then make them BASE as good as a tech 2 cruiser. Now you have crazy tech 2 ships but they are tech 3 in tech because they can do new things no other ship can. I'm talkign crazy fitting bonuses for random modules. like... 20% per level to effectivness of PDUs Or.... 20% more hull hp per level. crazy things that no one has ever seen before. It might work. But one thing: crazy not stupid/useless :) haha :P hey I know but I just had to say something in there. ok the boost to afterburner speed was a good start. now we need new things... like... replace ammars bonus for nuet with... Ammar damage bonus for nuets/nos: 20% of cap drained also taken treated as damage to targets shield/armor. minmatar damage bonus for webs: 100 damage per cycle per level Stuff like that for racial E-War Ummm... I really could write up a whole thing but I wonder if the devs would even want to know my ideas. Or care. oh, each race should also get a defensive subsystem that gives you 15% bonus to structure resistances per level. That way you free up a slot where you would of put a damage control. each race should have a MASSIVE bonus to salvagers like.... 5% bonus per level Every race should have a subsystem for heat, but NOT for heat damage, but heat build up. 10% per level less heat build up, gives you more time to overheat without lowering the damage when it's at peak heat. should I try to write something up? ccp plese, if your going to give us 12,000 less ships, give us NEW ships, not the same. then don't have to fly HACs with new bonuses. the rep cap amount is a good new bonus too. The basic idea is good, but if you won't let them be "woah these ships are as powerful as a batleship!" then make then new. speaking of which... why are you blancing them like they are cruisers? Just because of the size? they will be more expensive thn tech 1 battleships, they should get the cap/armor/shield of a battleship, with the fitting space of a cruiser. The price justifies this. This would only mean more to crew through to kill one.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:34:00 - [238] Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 25/02/2009 20:26:10 Tengu horribly lacks CPU in any setup.... despite many configs arent even useable in pvp. Legion lacks CPU AND PG to no end... any setup and has no damage potential at all. I mean, whats the point of giving it a single damage bonus on each subS if it only has 4 turrethardpoints? And if you choose the powergrid subS you get +2 turretharpoints, but its unfitable for anything decent since you lack cpu. Ç: The RoF bonus from Caldari Offensive System 1 doesnt apply at all. and this is why one of my ideas for ammar was a fitting bonus. 10% less power grid and CPU for turrets per level.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:39:00 - [239] This threads are always the same for me, I start out reading all of the posts. But a few pages in, it is just "argle bargle" and "I'm angry" and "listen to me I'm important". So I just read the Dev posts from page 3 until whenever. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Cailais Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:42:00 - [240] Originally by: CCP Dionysus Originally by: torN Deception T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a ** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty. Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. Ok, from my pov, 9and Im looking to the future here in terms of T3 for all classes BC, BS etc). I'd like my T3 ships to offer me the chance to 'make my own ship' that can do what current T2 does in terms of general performance but aloows me to customize it to a role. Let me give an example: I'd like a ship that can use a cov ops cloak, but that isnt EW dependant (like say the pilgrim) but deals damage with turrets instead. Or a caldari ship with an armor tank, enabling me to fit profession modules like code breakers without crippling my tank. Id accept that Id have to compromise to get those unusual capabilities in other areas. Maybe 'subsystem V' are the 'oddball' subsystems, those that borrow from other races capabilities - after all we're dealing with 'sleeper tech' here - its "alien" in terms of our current expectations of what a racial ship would normally do. A fast caldari cruiser? A beam turret Gallente BS? A neutralizing Minmater BC? C. Originally by:** Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.

Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.02.26 06:41:00 - [241] Originally by: Cailais Ok, from my pov, 9and Im looking to the future here in terms of T3 for all classes BC, BS etc). I'd like my T3 ships to offer me the chance to 'make my own ship' that can do what current T2 does in terms of general performance but aloows me to customize it to a role. Let me give an example: I'd like a ship that can use a cov ops cloak, but that isnt EW dependant (like say the pilgrim) but deals damage with turrets instead. Or a caldari ship with an armor tank, enabling me to fit profession modules like code breakers without crippling my tank. Id accept that Id have to compromise to get those unusual capabilities in other areas. Maybe 'subsystem V' are the 'oddball' subsystems, those that borrow from other races capabilities - after all we're dealing with 'sleeper tech' here - its "alien" in terms of our current expectations of what a racial ship would normally do. A fast caldari cruiser? A beam turret Gallente BS? A neutralizing Minmater BC? C. You've almost perfectly described what EVE devs do NOT want to implement in game... -- Thanks CCP for cu
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.02.26 07:47:00 - [242] Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Amarr Offensive Subsystem 1 - Laser Capacitor / Rate of Fire Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 2 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Tracking Bonus Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range OMG please NO! If you want alot of laser pew-pew, add it in future expansions. But for start, please, give us something that every branch of Amarr warfare philisophy could utilize. AO1 - choose one of these 3 bonuses. Layout is ok'. AO2 - set 5-10 bandwidth (every amarr hull has dronebay, would be stupid to have drones and not being able to field them), change hardpoints to 4-5 launcher slots, 0-1 turret slot, HAM bonuses. (Basically, T3 Sac) AO3 - boost bandwidth to 50-75mbit/s, reduce slots layout to 3 high 1-2 med 1-2 low, 2-3 turret hardpoints, 1-2 launcher hardpoints, bonus to drone damage/hp/yield. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Pliauga Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.26 09:12:00 - [243] Originally by: CCP Dionysus Originally by: torN Deception T3 ships are the centerpiece of the largest expansion EVE has had in years, and CCP doesn't seem to give a ** about balancing them so that they're uesful. Unless they get some very major tweaks before release they're going to go unused, which means W-space is going to be empty. Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. Personally I'd love to see that heat bonus idea expanded a little further. How about heat 2.0 Make it not only give bonuses, but have an option for it to give even bigger bonuses in one area and drawbacks in another at the same time (and I don't mean heat damage). Example:** overloading guns gives 50% more damage than the usual overload on T1/T2 ships, but increases signature or weakens shield/armor rezists. Exact bonuses can be subsystem dependent, AND/OR dependent on subsystem skill. Also, some subsystems (racial ship dependency anyone) might have a heat capacity bonus (or whatever you call it) or heat damage bonus as it is now. Or, overheating some modules on T3 ships could have different effects to overheating them on T1/T2 ships. Like someone suggested adding damage dealing capability to E-war modules, how about target painters give overheat damage to targeted ship , lessening their overheat capability. Well you get the picture, use your imagination. P.s.: If you have to, make T3 weaker, make it radically pre-nerfed. But make it cardinally different. ------- "Skynet" is my internet provider, should I be worried?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.26 09:15:00 - [244] oh, thanks for the idea bump. Target painter bonus 10% per level to heat build up in target ship while target painter is overheated. I love the heat idea. Tech 3 should be better WHEN overheaated than tech 2.
Pliauga Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.26 09:20:00 - [245] Originally by: MotherMoon oh, thanks for the idea bump. Target painter bonus 10% per level to heat build up in target ship while target painter is overheated. I love the heat idea. Tech 3 should be better WHEN overheaated than tech 2. If I remember correctly that was one of the ideas on T3 thrown in by some dev over a year ago. Or at least that's how I interpreted whatever that was said by the devs. ------- "Skynet" is my internet provider, should I be worried?
Gut Punch Shade. Penumbra Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.26 19:35:00 - [246] Quote: Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 2 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Falloff / Optimal Range Bonus Can anyone confirm that this works? I'm looking at a Loki with 220mms and Offensive Subsystems 3 and the stats are: Optimal: 2890 Falloff: 11,000 Rate of Fire: 2.74 A Vagabond with my skills has 220mm stats of: Optimal: 2592 Falloff: 13,000 Rate of Fire: 2.81 Note the falloff. Are you applying a negative bonus or something. While I'm not expecting a sleipnir style falloff bonus, I'd at least think that the falloff should be 16km.
Nethras Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.02.26 19:47:00 - [247] Originally by: Gut Punch Quote: Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 2 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Falloff / Optimal Range Bonus Can anyone confirm that this works? I'm looking at a Loki with 220mms and Offensive Subsystems 3 and the stats are: Optimal: 2890 Falloff: 11,000 Rate of Fire: 2.74 A Vagabond with my skills has 220mm stats of: Optimal: 2592 Falloff: 13,000 Rate of Fire: 2.81 Note the falloff. Are you applying a negative bonus or something. While I'm not expecting a sleipnir style falloff bonus, I'd at least think that the falloff should be 16km. Double-checks Vagabond stats Yep, Vagabond still has its falloff bonus - I'm going to make a wild guess that your skill with T3 offensive subsystems is less than your skill with HACs, and thus the bonus not as high? If you want to check base optimal/falloff for 220s, use a stabber
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.26 19:56:00 - [248] Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 1 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Damage Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 2 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Falloff / Optimal Range Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus Sub-System 2 - please make it a damage and optimal bonus please - we want alpha at range, not crappy dps at range. For better or for worse, we are the alpha race and not the dps race - and RoF does nothing for alpha. -----------
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.26 19:59:00 - [249] Alpha race? You were enslaved for millennia....
Gut Punch Shade. Penumbra Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.26 20:02:00 - [250] Edited by: Gut Punch on 26/02/2009 20:02:49 Originally by: Atius Tirawa Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 1 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Damage Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 2 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Falloff / Optimal Range Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus Sub-System 2 - please make it a damage and optimal bonus please - we want alpha at range, not crappy dps at range. For better or for worse, we are the alpha race and not the dps race - and RoF does nothing for alpha. Screw that, drop the optimal for a better falloff. Optimal bonus on 2K is not worth crap.

AdiJager	Posted - 2009.02.26 21:09:00 - [251] and where are modules with bonuses for (covert) cloak?
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.02.26 21:22:00 - [252] Originally by: AdiJager and where are modules with bonuses for (covert) cloak? L2ReadMoar Subsystems 4 and 5 will not be released with M10. CCPs word? Soon.TM (I know, I'm doing it wrong) Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. Whisper is now officially my hero.
SSteejans Blanchards Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:17:00 - [253] Originally by: Karrade Krise Subsystems 4 and 5 will not be released with M10. CCPs word? Soon.TM (I know, I'm doing it wrong) when and where did a CCP employee say this? _______________ if CCP's logs really never show anything, i have to wonder, do they even have logs?
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:31:00 - [254] Edited by: Karrade Krise on 26/02/2009 22:36:43 Originally by: SSteejans Originally by: Karrade Krise Subsystems 4 and 5 will not be released with M10. CCPs word? Soon.TM (I know, I'm doing it wrong) when and where did a CCP employee say this? Found the link. Bad News Click "Features" the read where it says "Strategic Cruisers" Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. Whisper is now officially my hero.
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:38:00 - [255] Originally by: Atius Tirawa Sub-System 2 - please make it a damage and optimal bonus please - we want alpha at range, not crappy dps at range. For better or for worse, we are the alpha race and not the dps race - and RoF does nothing for alpha. Originally by: Gut Punch Edited by: Gut Punch on 26/02/2009 20:02:49 Screw that, drop the optimal for a better falloff. Optimal bonus on 2K is not worth crap. That explains why ur both not right.. This Subsystem gives bonuses to both Artillery and Autocannons. And if they will remove one of this bonuses then Loki with this subsystem will be more specialized and not broad... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬
Meha Mott Minmatar Carebear Research and Produktion Agency	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:40:00 - [256] Edited by: Meha Mott on 26/02/2009 22:40:34 Originally by: keepiru -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Nozh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where do tech 3 ships fit in? Most simple way I can put it: Tech 2 û Focused. Tech 3 û Broad. WeÆre trying to allow players to play multiple roles, without overshadowing tech 2. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where "Broad" currently reads as "HACs with 1 recon bonus", is that the final design? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have faith there are more subsystems to come. Even though we wont be able to deliver them on March 10th. Sorry for my bad English.
Gut Punch Shade. Penumbra Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.26 23:16:00 - [257] Originally by: Meha Mott Edited by: Meha Mott on 26/02/2009 22:40:34 Originally by: keepiru -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Nozh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where do tech 3 ships fit in? Most simple way I can put it: Tech 2 û Focused. Tech 3 û Broad. WeÆre trying to allow players to play multiple roles, without overshadowing tech 2. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where "Broad" currently reads as "HACs with 1 recon bonus", is that the final design? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have faith there are more subsystems to come. Even though we wont be able to deliver them on March 10th. No. How about we see some results from CCP. Prenerfed stuff is dumb.
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.27 00:33:00 - [258] is it really necessary to be this belligerent? Seriously dude, have some common courtesy. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Die Warzau	Posted - 2009.02.27 00:42:00 - [259] It seems odd that it's Minmatar Offensive 2 that has the most missile hardpoints, but it's Offensive 3 that gets the missile bonus. Seems like the bonuses for Minmatar offensive 2 and 3 should be flipped.
F4LC0N	Posted - 2009.02.27 03:48:00 - [260] Edited by: F4LC0N on 27/02/2009 03:49:25 Quote: Electronic Subsystem Amarr Electronic Subsystem 1 - Energy Neutralizer/Vampire Amarr Electronic Subsystem 2 - Signature Radius/Scan Resolution Amarr Electronic Subsystem 3 - Scan Strength this is a bit odd as the nos/neuts are the only ew that use up high slots and can limit you to be able to use only 1 or maybe 2 if you still want to use guns. and since when are nos/neuts classified as ew? ok if they are classified as ew then why do they still work on sieged/triaged dread/carrier/motherships or titans?

Salient Soldier Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.02.27 04:03:00 - [261] im running my legion with the # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range with the skill at level 4 Currently it takes twice the cap to fire my lasers than my zealot with a similar config. Is the capacitor bonus of this sub system just not as good as the zealot or is the legion currently bugged?
F4LC0N	Posted - 2009.02.27 04:22:00 - [262] those hac/recon combinations you can make with the t3 are the way how combat recons should have been to make them worth flying over the force recons.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.02.27 05:40:00 - [263] Originally by: Salient Soldier im running my legion with the # Amarr Offensive Subsystem 3 - Laser Capacitor / Damage / Optimal Range with the skill at level 4 Currently it takes twice the cap to fire my lasers than my zealot with a similar config. Is the capacitor bonus of this sub system just not as good as the zealot or is the legion currently bugged? Yeah man, something is totally bugged about them...It takes like 11 cap to fire, but with offensive subsystem 1, it takes 8 cap. I think the bonus isn't working for #2 and #3
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.02.27 06:50:00 - [264] Originally by: CCP Dionysus What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. When I read "modular ships with varying stats" I was hoping for ships that are customizeable in ways unprecedented in EVE so far. I was hoping they'd break the mold of "All Vagabonds are speed fitted. All Drakes have a passive shield tank and no dps. All X have Y". You know, no more archetypical optimal fittings for ship types. Right now many 1:1 situations are decided before the fight even starts as you can more or less predict what your opponent will fit and run away if you are not the stone versus the scissors in a RPS situation. That was the major bonus some ships have, like the Domi or the Myrmidon - you can never be sure what the ship is actually doing before you engage that. Right now, if you see a single Drake in low-sec you say "Hey, bait ship in belt X, can someone check the neighboring systems?". This led to stalemates that are only being broken by blobbing again. I was hoping there would be one class of modular ships (without a racial separation) that gave you total freedom what to fit and how to use it. This would hopefully cause more fights as the opponent cannot know your fitting and might just engage in the hope of having a better fitting than yours. Of course the standard reaction will be "Uh, T3 ship, I have no clue what it is fitting so ... where's my blob?" but I can dream :). Even the visual representation of the subsystems, as cool as it is, is a slightly bad step here because people can deduct your fitting from the looks of the ship. "Hey, that nose is subsystem 2 which has a bonus to tanking, as are the other parts, all tanking bonussed. So the ship has X lows, Y mids and Z highs. It's bait. Check neighboring systems and bring the blob." Now if it were viable to make truly random connections and still get a good performance from the ship this would not be much of a problem, but right now it appears that chosing one subsystem will more or less force you to select from a very limited pool of options and still get a workable ship, and that defies the whole concept. TL;DR summary: I wanted modular ships that are truly generic that bring back the mystery of what the other pilot is flying. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Amarr Holymight Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.27 07:30:00 - [265] Nice one on giving us level IV subsystem skills.
Bentula	Posted - 2009.02.27 08:40:00 - [266] I keep reading CCP doesnt want T3 cruisers to be better than T2. What does this mean? It means they will be worse, cause short of giving them the same boni and same layout/stats there is no way to make them perform equal. If a recon/hac/hic/covops is always better than a T3 in its respective part they will go the way of the dinosaur. Reasons for that are simple, let me give you a list: Refitting only at stations. If i have to dock anyway to adapt to a new situation i might aswell change to a completly different ship that will outperform it with a better cost/effect ratio anyway. Adaptibility. A player who invests his time/isk in a collection of ships is simply more adaptible than a player who invests in T3 and a bunch of submodules. You cant make a ceptor, a hic or a good cost/effect setup for risky missions with t3. Risk. There are always situations where you can loose a ship no matter the fit and how careful you are. If i depend on several ships to operate i simply redock and change to another ship, if i depend on T3 with a bunch of submodules i need to get another hull. Thats called putting all your eggs in one basket. High SP unfriendly. High SP players tend to be able to fly many different racial T2 ships. For example they may have a collection of ishtar, falcon, vagabond, devoter and a for running plexes a pimped NH. If you want to replace some of these roles with strat cruisers you have to buy 4 hulls and untold amounts of subsystems. Due to only having racial subsystems on the strat cruisers the problem is that with only 4 t2 ships you already have such a broad amount of roles that you not only need all 4 T3 hulls to approach them, your even bound to fail reaching them cause some modules dont work on them(covops cloak, HIC scram). So yeah, those are my current problems with T3. Im simply at a loss as what to do with them, what i expected was doing something like: Built a Shieldtanking laserboat with t2 resists. Built a droneship with ecm boni and t2 resists. Built a blasterboat with a web range/strength bonus and good buffertank(or imba falloff bonus). I.e. i want to see cross faction boni. That stuff doesnt have to be imba, the blasterboat with web range and strength boni could have less firepower than a deimos for example, but it would have a easier time bringing that firepower to bear on smaller/faster ships. What bothers me most atm is the lack of T2 resists on all but one submodule. And if you take that it comes at the expense of other tanking related boni. Whereas there are T2 ships that not only have T2 resists but another tanking boni to go with it. These ships are frail enough as is, they should have t2 resists by default.
Amarr Holymight Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.27 08:50:00 - [267] Yeh I like the feel of the Legion I'll try the proteus later maybe the lack of skills and the bugs was swaying my opinion negatively, but they seem to work a lot better and feel more like T3
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.27 09:50:00 - [268] Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 27/02/2009 09:54:05 quote=Gut Punch]Edited by: Gut Punch on 26/02/2009 20:02:49 Originally by: Atius Tirawa Originally by: CCP Nozh Offensive Subsystems Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 1 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Damage Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 2 - Projectile Rate of Fire / Falloff / Optimal Range Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus Sub-System 2 - please make it a damage and optimal bonus please - we want alpha at range, not crappy dps at range. For better or for worse, we are the alpha race and not the dps race - and RoF does nothing for alpha. Screw that, drop the optimal for a better falloff. Optimal bonus on 2K is not worth crap. I'm looking at the bonus', SS 1 is the double damage bonus, great for ACs. SS 2 is the falloff/rof, also great for very fast AC ships (Vega/Sleph), and SS 3 is fail split wepon systems. Which do you suggest for artillery? Optimal + Damage is the bonus I'm looking for (who uses ACs in pvp anymore anyway. . .srsly) Ultimatly, t3 gives you the option to combine various mods to make 'newish' ships - but I am looking at them to perform specilized roles even better. -----------
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.27 10:28:00 - [269] Edited by: MotherMoon on 27/02/2009 10:36:32 Quote: and SS 3 is fail split weapon systems. with two extra low slots. THINK. it gets 7 turrets. SO, unless your skill is at level 5, you actually get more dps by using ss3 and 2 gyros. OR you can make a massive armor tank, or nano by giving up dps. The bonuses aren't everything.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.27 10:36:00 - [270] Edited by: MotherMoon on 27/02/2009 10:36:17

Amarr Holymight Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.27 14:11:00 - [271] Some things I have noticed the overheating bonus is the only real advantage they have over T2 currently and I must admit with strat crsuier V could make these ships interesting, but most stats are either only slightly better or slightly worse than T2 at the moment. For instance a Legion with resistance bonus loses a low and has less armour than a Zealot at 2437, so the res bonus is totally negated. A seven turret Legion loses two lows so you may aswell go for Amarr offensive 3 fit two extra heat sinks and make use of the optimal bonus which doesn't even come close to the Zealot's optimal. The speed bonuses can't even make a Legion faster than the T2 variants and the neut bonus is worse than even the Pilgrims this is not good as it doesn't have a range bonus which would actualy be useful. The only interesting bonuses it seems to have is the signature radius bonus and tracking mixed with resists, tracking disruptor bonus in the works?
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.02.27 17:37:00 - [272] I guess somebody already complained, but I'll do anyway. Make the fitting screen and assembly dialog have the same subsystem order. Right now, fitting screen top to bottom: electronic defensive engineering offensive propulsion Assemble ship dialog top to bottom: defensive electronic offensive propulsion engineering will be easier for people to put ships together and communicate subsystem choices. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.02.27 17:43:00 - [273] Didn't read the whole thread, but I gotta agree with Merin, (gasp) the resistance bonuses need to be armor and shield! ---
Takeshi Yamato	Posted - 2009.02.27 18:17:00 - [274] I would like to see a Khanid offensive subsystem with launcher hardpoints and HAM bonus.
Bentula	Posted - 2009.02.27 19:30:00 - [275] Originally by: Takeshi Yamato I would like to see a Khanid offensive subsystem with launcher hardpoints and HAM bonus. That actually got announced as amarr subsystem 4 by a dev in some thread around here.
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:56:00 - [276] Being gallente i am sad we don't have a propulsion system for AB speed bonus =((( DOOO WANT Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
rgreat Gallente OEG GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.28 05:54:00 - [277] Originally by: CCP Dionysus Hi there. What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. Add a role not found in typical T2. Useful one. Like...ability to jump on cyno like capitals. And if you want to make t3 'broader in scope' then make different subsystems closer to each other in usefullness. For now you can only build like few working (not insane) variants of each T3 cruiser. And from 3 subsystems are only 1 or 2 are usefull. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sigras	Posted - 2009.02.28 11:06:00 - [278] would anyone else like to see a logistics offensive module?
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.28 11:55:00 - [279] Originally by: Takeshi Yamato I would like to see a Khanid offensive subsystem with launcher hardpoints and HAM bonus. Me too, It looks like without such subsystem sometimes i'll prefer Tengu, because lasers are not better in all regards... Originally by: Sigras would anyone else like to see a logistics offensive module? Why not... would be quite usefull in some setups... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Amarr Holymight Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.28 15:23:00 - [280] I'm having slight CPU issues with the offensive 1 on the proteus and legion needs a touch more due to being given 7 turrets (using Proteus setup 22111) do I need electronic subsystem to V? Also the defensive SS 3 seems a bit worthless in the case of Proteus and Legion, ok you get an extra low slot but it gimps your armour buffer and then adds fairly useless bonus Drone hitpoints that's a terrible bonus, hmm how about a mass reduction bonus for more speed and agility at least that would explain the loss of armour. Also just want to reitirate what someone said above, it would be nice if the T3 setup screen mirrored the order of the fitting screen so we can say 22111 and then translate it without referencing.

Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.28 19:02:00 - [281] With the latest build, the Proteus and Legion I have tested have severe Fitting issues. For example the Legion has at max 5 Turret Slots but has not the Powergrid to fit a full rack of Heavy Beam Laser ll at the moment. I think all T3 Ships will need a drastic increase in Powergrid and CPU, at least 10% in Powergrid and 25% in CPU, so that they are at least slightly more useful then a Tier 2 Battlecruiser. With the current fitting stats you quickly come to the point where you have to resort to Reactor Control Units or Co-Processors just to fill all Slots.
Tykkis	Posted - 2009.02.28 19:09:00 - [282] Originally by: MotherMoon I say move sideways, put in crazy bonuses that no ships get. then make them BASE as good as a tech 2 cruiser. Now you have crazy tech 2 ships but they are tech 3 in tech because they can do new things no other ship can. I'm talkign crazy fitting bonuses for random modules. like... 20% per level to effectivness of PDUs Or.... 20% more hull hp per level. crazy things that no one has ever seen before. i got few crazy ideas X% of damage taken goes to capacitor X% damage bonus when capacitor above 50% nos also drains enemy shields +X% cap recharge when shields full -X% sig radius when shields below 25% +X% shield recharge when capacitor full +X% resistances when armor below 25% +X% tracking when under effect of web -X% negative effects of web -X% negative effects of nos and neut -X% negative effects of ewar +X% agility when speed above 75% +4AU warp speed and faster acceleration to full warp speed +X% damage when enemy capacitor below 15% X% of damage bleeds through armor increase max drones to 6 set max drones to 3 and increase drone hp and damage by 100%
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.28 19:22:00 - [283] Can Tengu get more CPU? Currently it's just sad, although it has more CPU then the other race ships, but both shield tank and launchers take up 150% CPU compared to turrets/armortank mods. Add another 40-50 CPU and it should be ok, and inline to T1/T2 ships _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Evelgrivion Ignatium. Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.03.01 01:49:00 - [284] To improve the STRACs which inherit split weapon designs, it needs to be easier to choose whether your ship will be a missile/gun/drone boat rather than being stuck with a strong split. The ultimate limiter is still slot availability, so tacking on lots of gun slots/lots of missile slots won't really hurt. These ships are meant to be flexible, so why not let every setup fit everything at least moderately well? Right now, everyone struggles to find setups that offer an acceptable turret or launcher alotment rather than other attributes. Good game design would be in making the other attributes and their bonuses much more important than they are now - at least in my humble opinion.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.03.01 01:59:00 - [285] Originally by: Tykkis Originally by: MotherMoon I say move sideways, put in crazy bonuses that no ships get. then make them BASE as good as a tech 2 cruiser. Now you have crazy tech 2 ships but they are tech 3 in tech because they can do new things no other ship can. I'm talkign crazy fitting bonuses for random modules. like... 20% per level to effectivness of PDUs Or.... 20% more hull hp per level. crazy things that no one has ever seen before. i got few crazy ideas X% of damage taken goes to capacitor X% damage bonus when capacitor above 50% nos also drains enemy shields +X% cap recharge when shields full -X% sig radius when shields below 25% +X% shield recharge when capacitor full +X% resistances when armor below 25% +X% tracking when under effect of web -X% negative effects of web -X% negative effects of nos and neut -X% negative effects of ewar +X% agility when speed above 75% +4AU warp speed and faster acceleration to full warp speed +X% damage when enemy capacitor below 15% X% of damage bleeds through armor increase max drones to 6 set max drones to 3 and increase drone hp and damage by 100% THIS is an excellent idea add immunity to web and scram secondary effect and 0-100% reduction in sig radius penalty from mwd's per level Pledge your support
Faraelle Brightman Gallente Placid Reborn Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2009.03.01 02:30:00 - [286] Originally by: Sigras would anyone else like to see a logistics offensive module? Or Ewar...unless rigs are expected to fill that role. But as the stats stand right now I've found you can make (on paper) an extremly well tanked Gallente ewar-capbable cruiser, with room for a 1600mm plate, 6 midslots decent offence out of the drone bay, everything the Astarte and Celestis isn't. ----------------------- "Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies."
Amarr Holymight Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.01 08:47:00 - [287] I would like see the Gallente and Amarr defensive subsystem III get a mass reduction modifier and maybe some bonuses that lean towards making a lightweight, but extremely fast and nimble combo.
Torcko	Posted - 2009.03.01 11:52:00 - [288] Quote: Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Agility Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Caldari again in an ass. Improve caldari pls. These bonuses are useless.
Omu Negru Caldari Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.01 11:56:00 - [289] Originally by: Tykkis Originally by: MotherMoon I say move sideways, put in crazy bonuses that no ships get. then make them BASE as good as a tech 2 cruiser. Now you have crazy tech 2 ships but they are tech 3 in tech because they can do new things no other ship can. I'm talkign crazy fitting bonuses for random modules. like... 20% per level to effectivness of PDUs Or.... 20% more hull hp per level. crazy things that no one has ever seen before. i got few crazy ideas X% of damage taken goes to capacitor X% damage bonus when capacitor above 50% nos also drains enemy shields +X% cap recharge when shields full -X% sig radius when shields below 25% +X% shield recharge when capacitor full +X% resistances when armor below 25% +X% tracking when under effect of web -X% negative effects of web -X% negative effects of nos and neut -X% negative effects of ewar +X% agility when speed above 75% +4AU warp speed and faster acceleration to full warp speed +X% damage when enemy capacitor below 15% X% of damage bleeds through armor increase max drones to 6 set max drones to 3 and increase drone hp and damage by 100% cool ideas Also my proposal for the main modules was: PROTEUS: "20% resistence against warp disruptors, warp scramblers by range and remote sensor dampers per lvl" TENGU: "20% resistence against electronic counter mesures per lvl" LOKI: "20% resistence against stasis webifiers per lvl" LEGION: "20% resistence against energy vampires, energy destabilizators and tracking disruptors per lvl" these bonuses would be affected by strategic cruiser skill.
Lijhal FrEE d00M Fighters	Posted - 2009.03.01 13:47:00 - [290] Originally by: Omu Negru Originally by: Tykkis Originally by: MotherMoon I say move sideways, put in crazy bonuses that no ships get. then make them BASE as good as a tech 2 cruiser. Now you have crazy tech 2 ships but they are tech 3 in tech because they can do new things no other ship can. I'm talkign crazy fitting bonuses for random modules. like... 20% per level to effectivness of PDUs Or.... 20% more hull hp per level. crazy things that no one has ever seen before. i got few crazy ideas good stuff cool ideas Also my proposal for the main modules was: PROTEUS: "20% resistence against warp disruptors, warp scramblers by range and remote sensor dampers per lvl" TENGU: "20% resistence against electronic counter mesures per lvl" LOKI: "20% resistence against stasis webifiers per lvl" LEGION: "20% resistence against energy vampires, energy destabilizators and tracking disruptors per lvl" these bonuses would be affected by strategic cruiser skill. lol, please go and die and forget to upgrade your clone... please take a look above and think about some bonuese... overwise please keep your stupid ideas for yourself

paddytehpyro Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.03.01 14:55:00 - [291] I can see why the Tengu doesnt have huge CPU to avoid mega tanked setups. So why not have -20% (or some amount)CPU usage for launchers. So you can still fit a some for of tank AND missiles. Just a thought...
Devon Cys Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.01 15:42:00 - [292] How about in addition to the heat bonus you also give a bonus to rig penalty reduction. One that will stack with the rigging skills. That at (whatever) rigging skill 5 and Racial strat crusier skill 5 you will have no penalty from the rig. Or even add a fourth rig slot. Because as long as they do nothing better than a t1 or t2 ship they won't be flown in place of a ship that does it better for cheaper.
King Rothgar Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.03.01 15:48:00 - [293] I've been tinkering around with the SACs on sisi and noticed something that smacks of exploit, though I haven't a clue as to how it could be corrected. Due to the fitting problems mentioned many times here, a lot of us have taken to comedy fits. Some of those comedy fits are things like a 5k+ dps passive shield tank on the tengu or a triple repper legion with a 40 sec cap recharge time and 80% resistance across the board (with a 1600mm plate to boot). These setups are basically unarmed so are of limited use except in cheating lvl5 missions but still, needs to be looked into. BTW, though it's hard to do, the legion can actually be given a reasonable setup. The problem is due to the severe cpu shortage, you have to use those non-energized adaptive nano's that use 0 cpu and 1 power grid instead of 36 cpu. This does have it's limits as you'd only be using 2 of those at most anyways and it doesn't fully compensate for the cpu shortage.
Amarr Holymight Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.01 18:46:00 - [294] Originally by: King Rothgar BTW, though it's hard to do, the legion can actually be given a reasonable setup. The problem is due to the severe cpu shortage, you have to use those non-energized adaptive nano's that use 0 cpu and 1 power grid instead of 36 cpu. This does have it's limits as you'd only be using 2 of those at most anyways and it doesn't fully compensate for the cpu shortage. You can also fit a algid wotsit rig to reduce turret CPU usage and a KMB50 implant then you can squeeze on a normal EANM or two, I actually got some more solid fits on the Legion earlier today. I still feel the 7 turret legion will be problematic to fit decently it would be preferable to just have six turrets and an extra low if you were trying to achieve a hi-dps fit, seven turrets is far too cap heavy.
Kyvon Gallente 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.03.01 19:22:00 - [295] Edited by: Kyvon on 01/03/2009 19:23:27 my first legion was this: defensive 1. armor hp 4500. resists: em 76. th 75. kn 75. ex 87. 1x MARII. 1x damage II (not included in resists) offensive 2. +32% tracking speed. +42.14% damage. +8% cap use (info of my fitted vs basic?). 4x Hvy Pulse. 1 med nos II eng 3. 1575 cap. 132.48 second regen. 2 med cap booster II prop 1. 266 m/s elec 2. 114m sig radius. 136km targeting range. 374mm scan res. 15 pt radar plus a web and scramble...dunno about DPS...but id fly it...
Holy Lowlander Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.01 20:13:00 - [296] Originally by: Kyvon Edited by: Kyvon on 01/03/2009 19:23:27 my first legion was this: defensive 1. armor hp 4500. resists: em 76. th 75. kn 75. ex 87. 1x MARII. 1x damage II (not included in resists) offensive 2. +32% tracking speed. +42.14% damage. +8% cap use (info of my fitted vs basic?). 4x Hvy Pulse. 1 med nos II eng 3. 1575 cap. 132.48 second regen. 2 med cap booster II prop 1. 266 m/s elec 2. 114m sig radius. 136km targeting range. 374mm scan res. 15 pt radar plus a web and scramble...dunno about DPS...but id fly it... I'd swap the pulse lasers for beam lasers and somehow get an mwd on there as well. That would definatly outclass the zealot.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2009.03.02 02:13:00 - [297] Are these subsystem bonuses actually in-game yet or not? There was nothing in the ship or subsystem descriptions to indicate special bonuses so I assumed they weren't in. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.03.02 04:57:00 - [298] Originally by: Nyphur Are these subsystem bonuses actually in-game yet or not? There was nothing in the ship or subsystem descriptions to indicate special bonuses so I assumed they weren't in. The bonuses are in game, just not in the subsystem descriptions. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.03.02 05:45:00 - [299] so those descriptions should be updated in due course
Kyvon Gallente 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.03.02 06:42:00 - [300] Originally by: Holy Lowlander I'd swap the pulse lasers for beam lasers and somehow get an mwd on there as well. That would definatly outclass the zealot. i did pulse to try to take advantage of the defensive 1 module's bonus of tracking...

King Rothgar Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.03.02 09:52:00 - [301] I've managed to come up with a pretty solid legion, beats the hell out of every hac I've fought with it so far. Dunno about subsystems atm given the server is down but the end result was: Highs: 6x FMP II's, core probe launcher Mids: MWD (named), t2 web, t2 disruptor, medium cap booster II Lows: MAR II, DCII, adaptive plating II (0 cpu, 1 grid), thermic plating II, reflective plating II, Heatsink II, 1600mm RT plate. Rigs: 2x Ancillary current routers, 1 algid whatever for turret cpu Total is 7687 armor, 320-ish dps (AN multifrequency), 72-90% resistance across board (EM/therm weak) and nearly cap stable with mwd off. This is with no implants and my in game skills which are far from maxed. I haven't fought a zealot with this exact setup but lachesis, deimos, vagabond and hurricane are no problem. Vagabond was the toughest of them due to it's resistance but it never posed a threat, damn near had him permatanked without using cap boosters.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.02 10:14:00 - [302] Originally by: Devon Cys How about in addition to the heat bonus you also give a bonus to rig penalty reduction. One that will stack with the rigging skills. That at (whatever) rigging skill 5 and Racial strat crusier skill 5 you will have no penalty from the rig. Or even add a fourth rig slot. Because as long as they do nothing better than a t1 or t2 ship they won't be flown in place of a ship that does it better for cheaper. why? just fit ccc, rigs don't have drawbacks.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.02 10:15:00 - [303] Originally by: King Rothgar I've managed to come up with a pretty solid legion, beats the hell out of every hac I've fought with it so far. Dunno about subsystems atm given the server is down but the end result was: Highs: 6x FMP II's, core probe launcher Mids: MWD (named), t2 web, t2 disruptor, medium cap booster II Lows: MAR II, DCII, adaptive plating II (0 cpu, 1 grid), thermic plating II, reflective plating II, Heatsink II, 1600mm RT plate. Rigs: 2x Ancillary current routers, 1 algid whatever for turret cpu Total is 7687 armor, 320-ish dps (AN multifrequency), 72-90% resistance across board (EM/therm weak) and nearly cap stable with mwd off. This is with no implants and my in game skills which are far from maxed. I haven't fought a zealot with this exact setup but lachesis, deimos, vagabond and hurricane are no problem. Vagabond was the toughest of them due to it's resistance but it never posed a threat, damn near had him permatanked without using cap boosters. well now that you've posted it, ccp will nerf it. remember, NOT better than tech 2.
Turiel Demon Minmatar Inhumation Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.02 12:23:00 - [304] Now see, that's a bad thing; we shouldn't have to be worried about posting good setups because we think the intention is to make sure they won't be so by release time
Vampiress Minmatar Comply Or Die Retribution.	Posted - 2009.03.02 14:53:00 - [305] Edited by: Vampiress on 02/03/2009 14:55:27 Originally by: CCP Nozh Propulsion Subsystem Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 3 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Agility Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus why dont u give mwd speed bonus insteed of afterburner ..i meen no one uses afterburner :) mwd ftw Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Agility Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Make sure to take into account the actual stats and slot modifications the subsystems give before judging bonuses too hard. why dont u give mwd bonuses insteed of afterburner ...afterburner sux ...especially when u come against a rapier
ITTigerClawIK Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2009.03.02 15:21:00 - [306] for some reason the bonuses are not working today, yesterday on the exact same setup im flying at the moment i had a 8.9x dmg modifier and now its 5.0 and the range bonus had been taken off Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.02 17:41:00 - [307] Originally by: Vampiress Edited by: Vampiress on 02/03/2009 14:55:27 Originally by: CCP Nozh Propulsion Subsystem Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Amarr Propulsion Subsystem 3 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Agility Bonus Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus why dont u give mwd speed bonus insteed of afterburner ..i meen no one uses afterburner :) mwd ftw Caldari Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 1 - Velocity Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Agility Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Afterburner Speed Bonus Make sure to take into account the actual stats and slot modifications the subsystems give before judging bonuses too hard. why dont u give mwd bonuses insteed of afterburner ...afterburner sux ...especially when u come against a rapier because having 250% afterburners is awesome.
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:49:00 - [308] Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! disclaimer: None of the bonuses are 100% final Ship Bonuses o rly?!? Then hows they werent even 1 change in whole time. 60D GTC - shattared link
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.03.02 21:05:00 - [309] Edited by: fuxinos on 02/03/2009 21:08:50 Originally by: Kalintos Tyl Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey! disclaimer: None of the bonuses are 100% final Ship Bonuses o rly?!? Then hows they werent even 1 change in whole time. Because it was only 99,99999999999... final? Since when did CCP ever try diffrent possibilitys before launching something? They are not even trying to give released ships a diffrent role, if they are broken. CCPs way of balancing is more like "They want the bonis to be like this, if it fits into meta game or not, is no reason for them to change their mind"
Aylara	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:42:00 - [310] Edited by: Aylara on 02/03/2009 23:42:25 Originally by: CCP Nozh Propulsion Subsystem Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 1 - MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 2 - Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction Gallente Propulsion Subsystem 3 - Warp Speed / Capacitor Bonus Please excuse me if I've missed the post with the good reason against this, but as a gallente, i would really like to put those blasters on target really fast. So... can we get a speed bonus instead of the warp speed bonus, like the amarr?

Vitrael Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:57:00 - [311] Originally by: CCP Dionysus What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. Presently T3 ships are suffering from Assault Frigate syndrome. Compare them to other ships cruiser size and above: T3 ships are not as good at tank 'n gank as battleships or even battlecruisers that are cheaper and easier to train for. For scouting, tackling, and electronic warfare, the Recon ships preform brilliantly where the T3 cruisers fall short. T3 ships have comparable or slightly superior firepower and tank when compared to HACs, but they are not even remotely as mobile and the price is hardly justified. In this field Command Ships are better tankers, better damage dealers, just as mobile, much cheaper and can fit ganglinks to boot. In their present state the T3 cruisers are ships that try to do everything and hence accomplish nothing. Consider this: the many niches of Eve are peppered with extant T2 ships. T3 ships attempt to fit into many of these niches, but aren't quite a match for any of them. Why should people fly very expensive T3 ships that don't quite fill the niche roles well when they could fly T2 ships that do the same job better? The smart player will always user the correct tool for the job, especially when it's comparatively on sale. Toss in the positively ridiculous idea that dying in a T3 ships will cause you to lose skillpoints and nobody in their right mind will fly them. Just like Black Ops (still waiting on that fuel bay and cyno jammer circumvention mechanic!), Marauders, and others, these bricks just don't fly. Remember electronic attack frigates? Lots of people were excited when they came out. A few thousand kills later my alliance killboard shows a total of 4 destroyed, and it's not because they're invincible- nobody is flying them. They tried to fit into the niche role of recons but didn't make the boot: the extent ships that already fulfilled that role better store their popularity away. On the contrary, HICs came out at about the same time and fulfilled a relatively unique role: the tanking dictor, supercapital tackler, and permabubble. Because they created a new niche they have seen heavy usage by countless alliances. Basically what I'm saying is T3 ships either need to have a niche or at least fulfill existing niches to an equal or greater extent than the T2 ships. Even if a Loki could be as tank-n-gank as a Sleipnir, then refit and be as good as a tackler as a Rapier, most pilots would rather have a Sleipnir and a Rapier in their hangar than fly a T3 cruiser for obvious reasons. -----
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.03.03 02:35:00 - [312] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 03/03/2009 02:37:10 Originally by: Vitrael ... very expensive T3 ships ... point of FAIL for the rest of the post. CCP clearly said, they want them to be at the same price as T2! If player TRY to make them expensive to get a 10000000000000% ISK win out of it .... this is a PLAYER PROBLEM - not a problem of T3 ships themselve! If you then start to compare T2 <> T3 with same price ... T3 can be a real alternativ but as every other ship situation depending. And another big problem from players (!!!!!) seams to be that many can't think out of the box. "waaahh, I have no premate tamplate for fitting, no given HAC/RECON/WHATEVER setup does work!!! cry whine flame troll" Like: lost manual of hifi system -> can't use it anymore ;). Well, try to throw over ALL your current fittings from known ships and then start from sero and you WILL find some emazing setting that do work very well ;). Originally by: Vaal Erit Spread your arms out and go "Brrrrrrrrrr" and then "fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap" Then takeoff!
Vitrael Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.03.03 03:04:00 - [313] Originally by: Jack Jombardo point of FAIL for the rest of the post. CCP clearly said, they want them to be at the same price as T2! Well I tip my hat to you sir, you are the first tough guy on the internet. Oh wait. CCP "clearly said" nothing about price in their dev blog, and they almost never update their dev finder, so if you're referring to a very clear forum post then I haven't seen it, and probably nobody else has either. Regardless CCP cannot dictate the price of T3 ships anymore than they can dictate the price of rigs or other commodities built by players. Do you think they wanted every rig commodity to be completely worthless except trit bars, armor plates and melted cap consoles? Then you flame me saying that I fail at fitting ships. Considering I never even once mentioned a single T3 ship fitting (I used only generalizations) you should really re-think your point of argument. The bottom line is it is impossible (for example) to have Ewar as effective as a Recon, DPS/Tank as good as a Command ship or BS, or the mobility of a HAC on a T3 cruiser. There is no fitting you can post that can do any of those things- NONE. Sorry -----
loldongs III loldongs industries	Posted - 2009.03.03 03:23:00 - [314] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: King Rothgar I've managed to come up with a pretty solid legion, beats the hell out of every hac I've fought with it so far. Dunno about subsystems atm given the server is down but the end result was: Highs: 6x FMP II's, core probe launcher Mids: MWD (named), t2 web, t2 disruptor, medium cap booster II Lows: MAR II, DCII, adaptive plating II (0 cpu, 1 grid), thermic plating II, reflective plating II, Heatsink II, 1600mm RT plate. Rigs: 2x Ancillary current routers, 1 algid whatever for turret cpu Total is 7687 armor, 320-ish dps (AN multifrequency), 72-90% resistance across board (EM/therm weak) and nearly cap stable with mwd off. This is with no implants and my in game skills which are far from maxed. I haven't fought a zealot with this exact setup but lachesis, deimos, vagabond and hurricane are no problem. Vagabond was the toughest of them due to it's resistance but it never posed a threat, damn near had him permatanked without using cap boosters. well now that you've posted it, ccp will nerf it. remember, NOT better than tech 2. ' I don't know how you can make the legion any worse... It has no grid, no cpu to shield tank it, and its capacitor sucks. If you didn't look at the rigs he had to use 2 acr's to fit this (and even then it sucks).
Miyamoto Isoruku Caldari Noir.	Posted - 2009.03.03 04:34:00 - [315] Guys, please please boost the CPU on these ships, they are just too hard to fit otherwise.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.03.03 04:38:00 - [316] Originally by: Vitrael [CCP "clearly said" nothing about price in their dev blog, and they almost never update their dev finder, so if you're referring to a very clear forum post then I haven't seen it, and probably nobody else has either. Regardless CCP cannot dictate the price of T3 ships anymore than they can dictate the price of rigs or other commodities built by players. Do you think they wanted every rig commodity to be completely worthless except trit bars, armor plates and melted cap consoles? Then you flame me saying that I fail at fitting ships. Considering I never even once mentioned a single T3 ship fitting (I used only generalizations) you should really re-think your point of argument. The bottom line is it is impossible (for example) to have Ewar as effective as a Recon, DPS/Tank as good as a Command ship or BS, or the mobility of a HAC on a T3 cruiser. There is no fitting you can post that can do any of those things- NONE. Sorry I can't find the link to the post/thread... All I can offer is my signature. As far as you DPS/Tank as good as commandship or BS...Well, I can take the Tengu and stick a ridiculously Commandship-like tank on it, or I can go the other way arround and set it up for full gank doing 700-800DPS... And no, I'm not giving my setups for them as I'd hate to see them nerfed... Originally by: CCP Nozh prices T3. goal around the price of tech 2 cruisers
Kyvon Gallente 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.03.03 05:13:00 - [317] Originally by: loldongs III I don't know how you can make the legion any worse... It has no grid, no cpu to shield tank it, and its capacitor sucks. If you didn't look at the rigs he had to use 2 acr's to fit this (and even then it sucks). im assuming from your name this is a troll...but seriously... legion shield tank wtf?
Vitrael Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.03.03 05:40:00 - [318] Originally by: Karrade Krise As far as you DPS/Tank as good as commandship or BS...Well, I can take the Tengu and stick a ridiculously Commandship-like tank on it, or I can go the other way arround and set it up for full gank doing 700-800DPS... True but you can also get those numbers or higher on Absolutions, Sleipnirs, and Astartes (not fail Nighthawks with no grid) while still fitting decent buffer or repping tanks. And you won't lose SP when you die! -----
Xindi Kraid Cerulean Sky Fire Industries	Posted - 2009.03.03 07:03:00 - [319] Originally by: Vitrael Originally by: Karrade Krise As far as you DPS/Tank as good as commandship or BS...Well, I can take the Tengu and stick a ridiculously Commandship-like tank on it, or I can go the other way arround and set it up for full gank doing 700-800DPS... True but you can also get those numbers or higher on Absolutions, Sleipnirs, and Astartes (not fail Nighthawks with no grid) while still fitting decent buffer or repping tanks. And you won't lose SP when you die! THose are command ships, T2 Battlecruisers. These are cruisers. They are much more powerful HACs. A DPS fit T3 has the firepower of a Command ship, with the closing speed of a cruiser, so it can put firepower on it's target more quickly, and can dictate range more often. In addition, some of use were testing T3 out in Perimeter (I invite you to join us), and we had them tanking multiple battleships and cruiser mobs. They can;t have both the DPS and tank of a command ship, because they aren;t one, but they can specialize in one area at the same level. As for the ECM comment, A well fitted Tengu does ECM quite well actually, and it has more mids than a recon ship does, the only thing it lacks is the covert ops cloak. -Xindi Kraid: Delivering acerbic wit and scathing comments with just a dash of 'stab you in the eye'
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.03.03 07:05:00 - [320] Originally by: Vitrael Originally by: Jack Jombardo point of FAIL for the rest of the post. CCP clearly said, they want them to be at the same price as T2! Well I tip my hat to you sir, you are the first tough guy on the internet. Oh wait. CCP "clearly said" nothing about price in their dev blog, and they almost never update their dev finder, so if you're referring to a very clear forum post then I haven't seen it, and probably nobody else has either. Regardless CCP cannot dictate the price of T3 ships anymore than they can dictate the price of rigs or other commodities built by players. Do you think they wanted every rig commodity to be completely worthless except trit bars, armor plates and melted cap consoles? To your fawor the search funktion isn't usefull here but there had been statements about the price. If they want they could dicate the price. Be it through "adjust" number of materials needed, number of drobed units, dificulty of encounter ... or the last way by sead parts as NPC stuff (or bann scammer with 1000000% prices). For the last two options I don't doupt they'll do it, but "adjust" is a easy way. Quote: Then you flame me saying that I fail at fitting ships. Considering I never even once mentioned a single T3 ship fitting (I used only generalizations) you should really re-think your point of argument. The bottom line is it is impossible (for example) to have Ewar as effective as a Recon, DPS/Tank as good as a Command ship or BS, or the mobility of a HAC on a T3 cruiser. There is no fitting you can post that can do any of those things- NONE. Sorry True, you mentioned no singel fitting, you swing the big bang hammer and say: they are ALL useless. And that wrong! Command ship = T2 BC and together with BS a ABSOLUT other class of ships. HACs can't be as swifty as Intis => HACs are grap! <- that's what you do. With a slotlayout of 8/5/6 on the Legion this is one of the view Amarr ships that can fitt: - some tankling/ew (BASE target range 150km +++ wtf?) (MWD/AB, scram, web, injector, TD) - some tank/selfrep (rep, 2 or 3 HS, rest resitences) - some DPS (7 guns, 1 neut/nos) And this all compareble easy CAP STABLE! Not good??? Or you build a sniper hack with more range, same dps, more tank then a Zealot. Not good??? Or a util-PvE boot. Yes, there isn't all about PvP (except you perma sell GTCs). So please wise man, tell me what do you expect from T3? 5000 DPS, 750k armor, speed of inti and all for the price of T1?? CRUISER size stuff better as Carriers mixed with recons?? Yea, if you try to fitt 3* 1600 plates and Heavy Beams you'll get problems ... but this is INTENDED! Originally by: Vaal Erit Spread your arms out and go "Brrrrrrrrrr" and then "fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap" Then takeoff!

loldongs III loldongs industries	Posted - 2009.03.03 07:21:00 - [321] Originally by: Kyvon Originally by: loldongs III I don't know how you can make the legion any worse... It has no grid, no cpu to shield tank it, and its capacitor sucks. If you didn't look at the rigs he had to use 2 acr's to fit this (and even then it sucks). im assuming from your name this is a troll...but seriously... legion shield tank wtf? You don't have the grid for an armor tank when you... well fit lasers.
loldongs III loldongs industries	Posted - 2009.03.03 07:24:00 - [322] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Originally by: Vitrael Originally by: Jack Jombardo point of FAIL for the rest of the post. CCP clearly said, they want them to be at the same price as T2! Well I tip my hat to you sir, you are the first tough guy on the internet. Oh wait. CCP "clearly said" nothing about price in their dev blog, and they almost never update their dev finder, so if you're referring to a very clear forum post then I haven't seen it, and probably nobody else has either. Regardless CCP cannot dictate the price of T3 ships anymore than they can dictate the price of rigs or other commodities built by players. Do you think they wanted every rig commodity to be completely worthless except trit bars, armor plates and melted cap consoles? To your fawor the search funktion isn't usefull here but there had been statements about the price. If they want they could dicate the price. Be it through "adjust" number of materials needed, number of drobed units, dificulty of encounter ... or the last way by sead parts as NPC stuff (or bann scammer with 1000000% prices). For the last two options I don't doupt they'll do it, but "adjust" is a easy way. Quote: Then you flame me saying that I fail at fitting ships. Considering I never even once mentioned a single T3 ship fitting (I used only generalizations) you should really re-think your point of argument. The bottom line is it is impossible (for example) to have Ewar as effective as a Recon, DPS/Tank as good as a Command ship or BS, or the mobility of a HAC on a T3 cruiser. There is no fitting you can post that can do any of those things- NONE. Sorry True, you mentioned no singel fitting, you swing the big bang hammer and say: they are ALL useless. And that wrong! Command ship = T2 BC and together with BS a ABSOLUT other class of ships. HACs can't be as swifty as Intis => HACs are grap! <- that's what you do. With a slotlayout of 8/5/6 on the Legion this is one of the view Amarr ships that can fitt: - some tankling/ew (BASE target range 150km +++ wtf?) (MWD/AB, scram, web, injector, TD) - some tank/selfrep (rep, 2 or 3 HS, rest resitences) - some DPS (7 guns, 1 neut/nos) And this all compareble easy CAP STABLE! Not good??? Or you build a sniper hack with more range, same dps, more tank then a Zealot. Not good??? Or a util-PvE boot. Yes, there isn't all about PvP (except you perma sell GTCs). So please wise man, tell me what do you expect from T3? 5000 DPS, 750k armor, speed of inti and all for the price of T1?? CRUISER size stuff better as Carriers mixed with recons?? Yea, if you try to fitt 3* 1600 plates and Heavy Beams you'll get problems ... but this is INTENDED! Not everyone is like this... I haven't pve'd for isk in 4 months or something (and when I did my wallet ended at like 100mil). I just collect pvp loot and do market pvp.
Omu Negru Caldari Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.03 08:35:00 - [323] Originally by: Lijhal lol, please go and die and forget to upgrade your clone... please take a look above and think about some bonuese... overwise please keep your stupid ideas for yourself shut * * up.
cianide pro	Posted - 2009.03.03 09:07:00 - [324] Its about flexibility, you know when you see a falcon, its a jammer and you expect missiles when you see a cerb and for other ships, t2's, bc's hacs and hics you know or you probably know the main stream setups as out of the box setups you dont really find a lot ( some out there still ) the t3 have the ability to be more flexible with setups and be really interesting with the possibilities of the different setups. If you come across a t3 ship in pvp you can be up for a nice surprise as you cant know what setup, tactics it will use, this gives an t3 ship an advantage when it fights a t1 or t2 ship. Scout seen a hostile, what ship type?,....a cerb...ok Scout seen a hostile, what ship type?,.... a t3.... hmm ok You see the difference here now dont you About the price... I think I did hear or read a ccp price estimate from the t3 ships, was around 300 mill though cant remember where it was mentioned though. I just want it to be a very cool ship as I will use it to pick up chicks when I cruising the boulevards And please make them BLACK
Sigras	Posted - 2009.03.03 14:05:00 - [325] Originally by: cianide pro Its about flexibility, you know when you see a falcon, its a jammer and you expect missiles when you see a cerb and for other ships, t2's, bc's hacs and hics you know or you probably know the main stream setups as out of the box setups you dont really find a lot ( some out there still ) the t3 have the ability to be more flexible with setups and be really interesting with the possibilities of the different setups. If you come across a t3 ship in pvp you can be up for a nice surprise as you cant know what setup, tactics it will use, this gives an t3 ship an advantage when it fights a t1 or t2 ship. Scout seen a hostile, what ship type?,....a cerb...ok Scout seen a hostile, what ship type?,.... a t3.... hmm ok You see the difference here now dont you About the price... I think I did hear or read a ccp price estimate from the t3 ships, was around 300 mill though cant remember where it was mentioned though. I just want it to be a very cool ship as I will use it to pick up chicks when I cruising the boulevards And please make them BLACK Exactly why i would like a logistics module and an e-war module . . . then you REALLY never know what you're going to get . . . /me dreams of a bait Tengu with one jammer for aggro . . .
Amarr Holymight Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.03 14:15:00 - [326] Originally by: Vitrael Originally by: Jack Jombardo point of FAIL for the rest of the post. CCP clearly said, they want them to be at the same price as T2! Well I tip my hat to you sir, you are the first tough guy on the internet. Oh wait. CCP "clearly said" nothing about price in their dev blog, and they almost never update their dev finder, so if you're referring to a very clear forum post then I haven't seen it, and probably nobody else has either. Regardless CCP cannot dictate the price of T3 ships anymore than they can dictate the price of rigs or other commodities built by players. Do you think they wanted every rig commodity to be completely worthless except trit bars, armor plates and melted cap consoles? Quote: Where do tech 3 ships fit in? While IÆm at it I might add something about the prices of Strategic Cruisers. The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers. The subsystem cost will be about 1/8th of the hull itself, we want people to own multiple subsystems to mix and match as they see fit. If the price gets out of hand (we canÆt even predict it accurately ourselves) weÆll do something about it. Taken from here, http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1008374&page=6#151
Kyvon Gallente 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.03.03 14:56:00 - [327] Originally by: loldongs III You don't have the grid for an armor tank when you... well fit lasers. good thing resistance plating costs 1 grid... oh wait...so does energized plating... adv weap upgs help alot too... people are more worried about CPU as its hard indeed to have enough CPU to put on a good tank of energized plating vs regular plating (which costs none btw)... alty fail troll is made of alt and fail...
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.03.03 16:16:00 - [328] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 03/03/2009 16:17:10 thx Amarr Holymight for the search :). I knew I saw it somewhere but didn't remember where. And for the fitting problems: Focused Laser + normal platings + some T1 named stuff for meds are your friends. T2 EW, Energized, 800+ platings and Heavy laser do not fitt, right. But there is realy no need for all this stuff to make T1 viable. PS: Laser for Amarr ;). And Largh or even X-Largh shield booster do not fitt, right. Mediums do. Originally by: Vaal Erit Spread your arms out and go "Brrrrrrrrrr" and then "fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap" Then takeoff!
Mes Ren No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.03 21:33:00 - [329] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Originally by: Vitrael Originally by: Jack Jombardo point of FAIL for the rest of the post. CCP clearly said, they want them to be at the same price as T2! Well I tip my hat to you sir, you are the first tough guy on the internet. Oh wait. CCP "clearly said" nothing about price in their dev blog, and they almost never update their dev finder, so if you're referring to a very clear forum post then I haven't seen it, and probably nobody else has either. Regardless CCP cannot dictate the price of T3 ships anymore than they can dictate the price of rigs or other commodities built by players. Do you think they wanted every rig commodity to be completely worthless except trit bars, armor plates and melted cap consoles? To your fawor the search funktion isn't usefull here but there had been statements about the price. If they want they could dicate the price. Be it through "adjust" number of materials needed, number of drobed units, dificulty of encounter ... or the last way by sead parts as NPC stuff (or bann scammer with 1000000% prices). For the last two options I don't doupt they'll do it, but "adjust" is a easy way. Quote: Then you flame me saying that I fail at fitting ships. Considering I never even once mentioned a single T3 ship fitting (I used only generalizations) you should really re-think your point of argument. The bottom line is it is impossible (for example) to have Ewar as effective as a Recon, DPS/Tank as good as a Command ship or BS, or the mobility of a HAC on a T3 cruiser. There is no fitting you can post that can do any of those things- NONE. Sorry True, you mentioned no singel fitting, you swing the big bang hammer and say: they are ALL useless. And that wrong! Command ship = T2 BC and together with BS a ABSOLUT other class of ships. HACs can't be as swifty as Intis => HACs are grap! <- that's what you do. With a slotlayout of 8/5/6 on the Legion this is one of the view Amarr ships that can fitt: - some tankling/ew (BASE target range 150km +++ wtf?) (MWD/AB, scram, web, injector, TD) - some tank/selfrep (rep, 2 or 3 HS, rest resitences) - some DPS (7 guns, 1 neut/nos) And this all compareble easy CAP STABLE! Not good??? Or you build a sniper hack with more range, same dps, more tank then a Zealot. Not good??? Or a util-PvE boot. Yes, there isn't all about PvP (except you perma sell GTCs). So please wise man, tell me what do you expect from T3? 5000 DPS, 750k armor, speed of inti and all for the price of T1?? CRUISER size stuff better as Carriers mixed with recons?? Yea, if you try to fitt 3* 1600 plates and Heavy Beams you'll get problems ... but this is INTENDED! I'm sorry, but have you actually fitted a Legion? Looks good on paper, but you don't have enough CPU to fit the things you just talked about. I haven't tested any of the other ships, but I have tested the Legion. I like what I'm seeing EXCEPT the severe lack of CPU. ________________________ No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
Regat Kozovv Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.03 21:55:00 - [330] Originally by: Vitrael Originally by: CCP Dionysus What sort of balancing are you looking for to make them useful? I dont necessarily mean exact numbers, but what are you looking to do with t3 ships? They are not meant to be "better" than t2, but broader in scope. Basically what I'm saying is T3 ships either need to have a niche or at least fulfill existing niches to an equal or greater extent than the T2 ships. Even if a Loki could be as tank-n-gank as a Sleipnir, then refit and be as good as a tackler as a Rapier, most pilots would rather have a Sleipnir and a Rapier in their hangar than fly a T3 cruiser for obvious reasons. I thought this was a rather good post. It seems to be like aside from the idea of being able to "build" your ships, T3 cruisers are suffering from a bit of an identity crisis. They're outperformed in every role by cheaper alternatives. (It's been said by a dev that the projected price of one of these is between 100-200mil when all is said and done; I'll find the quote and edit this post) I'm not sure that the name "strategic cruiser" was given much thought; "strategic" means long-range/endurance to me, which seems to encroach on the relm of a Marauder or so. However, I think it can be made to work. Given that wormholes and exploration is a big focus of this expansion, it may be that the true role of T3 cruisers is to provide that sort of "swiss army knife" ability: a deep space exploration cruiser that can perform adequately in many roles. What I'd recommend are perhaps subsystems that grant a large bonus to a module type while limiting the number that can be carried; similar to how the current Maruauder's perform. In that way they can maintain (but not surpass) the capabilities of their T1 counterparts while allowing for a variety of capabilities on a single platform. Their T2 brothers will be able to surpass them, but at the expense of having a narrow focus. The result? How about a cruiser with the missile capabilities of a Caracal with some of the jamming strength of a blackbird? Or a ship that can mount a salvager, probe launcher, and tractor beam, and still have a decent DPS with its remaining turrets? How would you feel about being able to mount a ship scanner with no penalty? How about an auto-targeter? ThereÆs currently little incentive in EVE to make a ôcatch-allö ship mounting a variety of modules without compromising your ship to a grave extent. If CCPÆs goal with T3 is to provide more flexible ships, I think they would be well served to look at not just how customizable they can be, but how many roles they can perform adequately at one time. Such a ship does not currently exist in EVE, and would give the Strategic Cruiser itÆs niche.

Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.03 22:19:00 - [331] I agree that t3 cruisers are suffering from an identity crisis. The effective fits are comparable to the racial HACs in concept, slightly better in some areas, slighty worse in others, but performing roughly the same role. No surprises here. The only real suprise I could think of was a passive shield tanking Legion, which sadly lacks CPU to put medium guns on it, although it can perform decently with small lasers. And a Tengu can be somewhat fit like a supertanked Drake. Passive peak tank on a Tengu can reach 1600-2000 dps with the added bonus of 125k-150k effective hit points. Nice bait ship. In general, effective setups are more geared towards tank then gank. The ships all seem to be strongly racially focused and while they do have slot flexibility, they lack grid, cpu and bonus flexibility to make them the truly versatile strategic cruisers I hoped they would be. I can finally have an Amarr ship with more than 4 mid slots, but lack the CPU and bonuses to make function as anything resembling an EW boat. There are effective Strategic Cruisers setups, no doubt. Just not able to build a lot of surprising but still reasonably effective Strategic Cruisers. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.03.04 03:33:00 - [332] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/03/2009 03:46:05 Originally by: Mes Ren I'm sorry, but have you actually fitted a Legion? Looks good on paper, but you don't have enough CPU to fit the things you just talked about. I haven't tested any of the other ships, but I have tested the Legion. I like what I'm seeing EXCEPT the severe lack of CPU. Yes I did the fitting for the Legion and as you see, I even have some CPU and GRID left ;) PS: The hole "fill a rule" discusion reminds me to Druids in a common Game g. Tank, DPS, Heal? Nobody liked em in MC as Tanks or DPS ... but I got the changs to do the jobs and gus what? I was as good in tanking all the bosses (even Nefarian) as any Warrior - when right equiped/skilled! I was as good as Prists for healing - if right equiped/skilled! I did nearly as much DPS as Rougs/Mages (about 85% of em) - if right equiped/skilled! Same happens here with T3 ships. People fail to see the concept ... fail to rethink what they know ... fail to be flexible ... fail as they try to pre-rise the prise to even make more profit building/selling there stuff. For the next time I realy should change my signatur to the statement of CCP: "T3 should be around the price of T2 FOR THE HOLE SHIP" just to take the wind out of this price-driver-posts. Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.03.04 04:02:00 - [333] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/03/2009 03:46:05 Originally by: Mes Ren I'm sorry, but have you actually fitted a Legion? Looks good on paper, but you don't have enough CPU to fit the things you just talked about. I haven't tested any of the other ships, but I have tested the Legion. I like what I'm seeing EXCEPT the severe lack of CPU. Yes I did the fitting for the Legion and as you see, I even have some CPU and GRID left ;) PS: The hole "fill a rule" discusion reminds me to Druids in a common Game g. Tank, DPS, Heal? Nobody liked em in MC as Tanks or DPS ... but I got the changs to do the jobs and gus what? I was as good in tanking all the bosses (even Nefarian) as any Warrior - when right equiped/skilled! I was as good as Prists for healing - if right equiped/skilled! I did nearly as much DPS as Rougs/Mages (about 85% of em) - if right equiped/skilled! Same happens here with T3 ships. People fail to see the concept ... fail to rethink what they know ... fail to be flexible ... fail as they try to pre-rise the prise to even make more profit building/selling there stuff. For the next time I realy should change my signatur to the statement of CCP: "T3 should be around the price of T2 FOR THE HOLE SHIP" just to take the wind out of this price-driver-posts. ...are you drunk?
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.03.04 04:19:00 - [334] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/03/2009 03:46:05 Originally by: Mes Ren I'm sorry, but have you actually fitted a Legion? Looks good on paper, but you don't have enough CPU to fit the things you just talked about. I haven't tested any of the other ships, but I have tested the Legion. I like what I'm seeing EXCEPT the severe lack of CPU. Yes I did the fitting for the Legion and as you see, I even have some CPU and GRID left ;) PS: The hole "fill a rule" discusion reminds me to Druids in a common Game g. Tank, DPS, Heal? Nobody liked em in MC as Tanks or DPS ... but I got the changs to do the jobs and gus what? I was as good in tanking all the bosses (even Nefarian) as any Warrior - when right equiped/skilled! I was as good as Prists for healing - if right equiped/skilled! I did nearly as much DPS as Rougs/Mages (about 85% of em) - if right equiped/skilled! Same happens here with T3 ships. People fail to see the concept ... fail to rethink what they know ... fail to be flexible ... fail as they try to pre-rise the prise to even make more profit building/selling there stuff. For the next time I realy should change my signatur to the statement of CCP: "T3 should be around the price of T2 FOR THE HOLE SHIP" just to take the wind out of this price-driver-posts. Worst fit ever. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Kyvon Gallente 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.03.04 05:10:00 - [335] Edited by: Kyvon on 04/03/2009 05:13:01 lol no, he's german but why judge the fit...all you can tell are the general fittings, you cant tell what guns they are...or anything specific. except the resists...id up those a lil bit... p.s. all my fittings have been w/o using upgrades... so the fittings i find 'okay' im assuming would be even better. people need to stop trying to 'uber-fy' them and work WITH the bonuses you are picking. they complain theres only one or 2 bonuses...but when each module adds a NEW bonus for you to capitalize on you can get massive bonuses...think 5 sets of +50% to 5 areas of your ship... thats of course if bonuses end up 1. working, 2. stacking properly and not being penalized with modules/upgrades
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.03.04 06:45:00 - [336] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 04/03/2009 06:49:38 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 04/03/2009 06:46:23 Just tried out the new build, some things about the Loki: - offensive subsystem 2: really only a 2.5% bonus to optimal+falloff? Is it possible we can get a 5% there maybe (since when using ACs, the 2.5% optimal part isnt doing much at all)? Or even make it 7.5% falloff only - cpu output: its too low imho, maybe +25 would help out a great deal, especially since we need to shield-tank that thing somehow
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.03.04 08:26:00 - [337] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/03/2009 08:29:58 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Worst fit ever. Why? It's cool to throw in such a sentence without explaining why isn't it? PS: oh I know, you miss the 3 1600 plates and 4 HS ... yea, that mu¯t it be Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
Carniflex Caldari Schmoo Manufacturing Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.04 08:50:00 - [338] Went over current implementation of Tengu. If the price of those ships end in the ballpark of T2 cruisers as goal currently seems to be, then I think it would end up quite popular. My main focus was on level 4 missionrunning with those new ships. Have not done yet the test mission, but stats look okish for it. 7-5-4 slot layout currently, 7x Heavy II 1x auto target II (for extra targets), 5 slot tank (might need to use 2x Pithi B + 3x Hardener bcos of cap issues), 4x BCU and 2x Rigor II and 1x Rigor I rig. Have also some (cruise missile) hardwires in my head. 4.8 sec rof (offensive subsystem has kin damage + rof bonus), around 66 km range (fury), and Fury missiles have 87 m explosion radius and 145.5m exp velocity. Cosidering that we are talking about fury here thats pretty sweet for level 4's if one can find setup that can tank them with 5 midslots (there is also afterburner speed bonus, so might be speedtanking be one of the options ... 10 mn domination afterburners are not too pricy) Overall seems good from my viewpoint.
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.04 10:57:00 - [339] Hm... Now bonuses are written in description of subsystems... So i glad that CCP desided to make a Defensive Subsystem with logistic bonuses. T3 Ship Spider Tank will rock... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:19:00 - [340] Edited by: MotherMoon on 04/03/2009 12:19:29 Quote: Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire, 2.5% bonus to medium projectile turret damage per level. I don't know if I should be mad or not. also give us back the left panel for the fitting window!!! I don't use cans I liked it :( interesting thing about the tech 3 remote rep booster bonus... even logtiiscs ships don't get a bonus to amount, or cap use. interesting... love it.

Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.03.04 17:34:00 - [341] Does anyone plan to use the "Increased Warp Speed and Reduced Capacitor to start warp" modules? I cannot really see why any ship should chose these instead of the more useful ones, well, except maybe very expensive haulers. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.04 18:33:00 - [342] Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness Does anyone plan to use the "Increased Warp Speed and Reduced Capacitor to start warp" modules? I cannot really see why any ship should chose these instead of the more useful ones, well, except maybe very expensive haulers. it needs to be something like 100% bonus to warp speed per level for it to be useful.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.03.04 18:41:00 - [343] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 04/03/2009 18:42:06 Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 04/03/2009 12:19:29 Quote: Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire, 2.5% bonus to medium projectile turret damage per level. I don't know if I should be mad or not. Well, given that projectiles usually need a double bonus to properly compete with other turrets it is kinda low. Quote: Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire, 2.5% bonus to medium projectile turret optimal range and falloff per level. Also this bonus is somewhat odd, as the optimal part gives like 300m extra range on ACs which is almost nothing, more so if you compare to this: Quote: Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage, 7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret falloff per level. Imo, switch these two, in contrast to autocannons blasters can make use of combined optimal+falloff bonus, while falloff bonus is more the minmatar flavour.
Captator Empire Assault Corp	Posted - 2009.03.04 23:07:00 - [344] Edited by: Captator on 04/03/2009 23:08:16 Having looked at the bonuses on the various ships: Legion: a) Defensive; 1 and 2 look good, why not a 10% armour bonus like the tengu gets for shield instead of the rep capacitor cost, given most amarr ships are plated with 1 or no reps, due to injector dependence and laser cap cost. b) Offensive; 1 and 2 look good, 5% optimal looks a little pointless, imo needs the 10% so that a beam fit with computers/enhancers can scrape 100km range. c) Electronic; all look good, the sig radius/scan res particularly good for a tackler, perhaps making use of halo set and the AB speed/mwd sig propulsion bonus. d) Engineering; a little boring, but solid, so no objections. e) Propulsion; as engineering Loki: a) Defensive; Flexible, fitting with racial philosophy, there needs to be enough cpu to fit a solid shield tank though b) Offensive; Much like the amarr 5% optimal, I fail to see the point in a 5% falloff bonus, I would increase it further to 7.5 or 10%. There is no subsystem favouring tracking or optimal which would be nice for arty users, this I assume will come later. c,d,e) Electronics, Engineering, Propulsion as above. Tengu: a) Defensive; Hitting the nail on the head imo. b) Offensive; 1 and 3 are okay, 2 is a bit poor for the same reason I don't like the other range bonusing subsystems: An eagle has 2x 10% optimal bonus for a 100% bonus overall, and it is still not a favourite ship for roaming, in blaster or rail config. I would like to know the reason for picking the 7.5% value here. c) Electronics; 1 and 2 look good, 3 (though I don't like the prevalence and power of ECM in the small gang scenario at the moment) seems weak, it is less than a blackbird , perhaps some bonus to ECM burst might be more interesting? (which it would be nice if bonused by ECM strength skills (including ship), so they were actually useful, i.e. fix this ) d) Engineering; boring but fine (as above) e) Propulsion; 1 and 3 are fine, I am agreed with others who say the warp speed/capacity bonus are pretty useless. There is already a problem with the warp speed rigs and ship warp speeds, as most of the time in most of the warps is spent accelerating and decelerating, which all ships do at the same rate. This means the gain in speed between points with this subsystem is infinitesimally small apart from on those few very long warps. I also don't understand the reasoning behind the cap cost reduction. Proteus: a) Defensive; I like these, though the drone HP bonus might be slanting t3 gallente too heavily towards drone based configurations. b) Offensive; look good to me c) Electronics; again, they look good d) Engineering; see previous e) Propulsion; again, the warp related one I think is weak, the other two look good.
Legionos McGuiros Caldari Catch Twenty Two	Posted - 2009.03.04 23:36:00 - [345] MY EYES!!!!
Breed Love FinFleet KenZoku	Posted - 2009.03.05 01:24:00 - [346] I think tengu damage bonus should be changed from kinetic to all dmg types, to make its capabilities broader (t3 are supposed to be broad, remember?) ----- Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
MenanceWhite Amarr SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.03.05 01:59:00 - [347] Drones. Where are my drones, besides gallente amarr would be 2nd in drone use with their arbitrator, etc. I wanted to make a drone cruiser for amarr using modular ships...
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.05 02:32:00 - [348] Loki needs some love on the damage front, but the other t3 cruisers are awesome. I tried to make a sniper setup for my proteus today, and utterly failed. Only managed to get 95km optimal range with 250mm rails. Damage was good, optimal bad compared to eagle and likely the caldari t3.
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.03.05 03:27:00 - [349] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 05/03/2009 03:28:20 Same range as sniper HAC => make sniper HAC useless. Simpel point. As it stands now T3 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> T2 and sometimes much better then Command or BS. All you whiner got what you wanted, imba solo pwnage mobiles :(. Far to easy to fitt with extrem offens, high resitences, 1600 plates and whatever! Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
J Valkor R.U.S.T. BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.03.05 05:01:00 - [350] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 05/03/2009 03:28:20 Same range as sniper HAC => make sniper HAC useless. Simpel point. As it stands now T3 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> T2 and sometimes much better then Command or BS. All you whiner got what you wanted, imba solo pwnage mobiles :(. Far to easy to fitt with extrem offens, high resitences, 1600 plates and whatever! Good. Skill points loss from death and the high costs associated with wormhole exploration should give us ships worth flying. If they weren't better they wouldn't be used and all that WH space would be worthless.

Carniflex Caldari Schmoo Manufacturing Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.05 05:02:00 - [351] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness Does anyone plan to use the "Increased Warp Speed and Reduced Capacitor to start warp" modules? I cannot really see why any ship should chose these instead of the more useful ones, well, except maybe very expensive haulers. it needs to be something like 100% bonus to warp speed per level for it to be useful. Even that would be rather useless. At least as far as warp speed goes as a result of warp acceleration and deacceleration times being constant for all ships in EVE regardless of their size. I have actually compared 'travel speeds' for regular frigate (6.0 au/s warp speed) and rigged inty (~20 au/s warp speed) and in real life time difference for anything under 40 Au is less than second bcos ships are not long in warp at max speed. On longer warps (max I have seen is long enough to sit in warp for ~3 minutes in freighter) might save you perhaps up to 10 seconds, but using ship slot bonus for that would not be justified in my opinion. If one would really need faster in warp speed there is rigs that do it. On ship hull it's quite 'meh' bonus and only reason to fit that subsystem is if you really need that particular slot layout. That is unless warp mechnaiks is changed in SiSi and at a glance it did not seem to.
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.05 07:24:00 - [352] Tengu actually looks quite good in latest patch, although some subsystems bonuses aren't usefull: Warp speed/cap - don't see any reason for anyone to use this. Contrary to some ppl calling AB bonus bad, it is actually quite good in PVE. ECM strength - just too weak CPU/Targeting range subsystem - targeting range ends up something like 200km, where no weapons can reach the target. This second bonus is useless for anything but dampener protection. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.03.05 10:47:00 - [353] The Bonuses are interesting. A few suggestions: Right now one Defense Module for each Ship has a Resistance and Remote Repair Bonus. I would move the Remove Repair Bonus to the Defense Module with with the Bonus to active tanking, to make this module a bit more interesting. The Hybrid Falloff Bonus from the first Gallente Module did not seem to work. I also noticed that the Drone/Hybrid damage offense module is more powerful then the other modules. To balance it a bit, please increase the Drone Bandwith for the Offensive Modules without Drone Bonus to at least 50m¦ Bandwith.
Gadrin Demarr Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.05 11:44:00 - [354] Originally by: J Valkor Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 05/03/2009 03:28:20 Same range as sniper HAC => make sniper HAC useless. Simpel point. As it stands now T3 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> T2 and sometimes much better then Command or BS. All you whiner got what you wanted, imba solo pwnage mobiles :(. Far to easy to fitt with extrem offens, high resitences, 1600 plates and whatever! Good. Skill points loss from death and the high costs associated with wormhole exploration should give us ships worth flying. If they weren't better they wouldn't be used and all that WH space would be worthless. Actually, I'm with Jack here: If they are better than the specialized T2 ships at their jobs, then the T2 ships will not be worth flying and effectively obsolete. I don't think CCP have the intention to replace the entire T2 market and production with the equivalent T3. That would be a disaster. T3 must be an alternative, not the only sensible choice. If T3 >>>>> T2, everyone will want T3. If everyone wants T3 there will be a lot of money to be made from producing them. If all manufacturers move over to producing/farming T3, the supply will be plenty, prices will remain at reasonable levels (100-150 mil?) and most will be able to afford them. Result: Everyone who is not crap-poor or noob will be flying T3 against eachother and we can effectively remove T2 cruisers/BCs from the game. I.e. disaster. It seems pefectly clear to me: They can't be uber at the same things T2 are! They must either be delicately balanced or perform a different role if you want to avoid making T2 obsolete!
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.03.05 14:30:00 - [355] Originally by: Gadrin DemarrActually, I'm with Jack here: If they are better than the specialized T2 ships at their jobs, then the T2 ships will not be worth flying and effectively obsolete. I don't think CCP have the intention to replace the entire T2 market and production with the equivalent T3. That would be a disaster. T3 must be an alternative, not the only sensible choice. If T3 >>>>> T2, everyone will want T3. If everyone wants T3 there will be a lot of money to be made from producing them. If all manufacturers move over to producing/farming T3, the supply will be plenty, prices will remain at reasonable levels (100-150 mil?) and most will be able to afford them. Result: Everyone who is not crap-poor or noob will be flying T3 against eachother and we can effectively remove T2 cruisers/BCs from the game. I.e. disaster. It seems pefectly clear to me: They can't be uber at the same things T2 are! They must either be delicately balanced or perform a different role if you want to avoid making T2 obsolete![/quote I am disagreeing with you here. T2 will still have the higher specialisation and due to their Bonuses will be more useful than T3 in certain roles. With nerfed CPU and PG the T3 ships are not much more then overpriced T1 Cruisers. For their extra price and risk of SP loss they would be without a real benefit over Battlecruisers and only collecting dust in the hangars.
Captator Empire Assault Corp	Posted - 2009.03.05 16:37:00 - [356] Originally by: Gadrin Demarr Actually, I'm with Jack here: If they are better than the specialized T2 ships at their jobs, then the T2 ships will not be worth flying and effectively obsolete. I don't think CCP have the intention to replace the entire T2 market and production with the equivalent T3. That would be a disaster. T3 must be an alternative, not the only sensible choice. If T3 >>>>> T2, everyone will want T3. If everyone wants T3 there will be a lot of money to be made from producing them. If all manufacturers move over to producing/farming T3, the supply will be plenty, prices will remain at reasonable levels (100-150 mil?) and most will be able to afford them. Result: Everyone who is not crap-poor or noob will be flying T3 against eachother and we can effectively remove T2 cruisers/BCs from the game. I.e. disaster. It seems pefectly clear to me: They can't be uber at the same things T2 are! They must either be delicately balanced or perform a different role if you want to avoid making T2 obsolete! FYI eagle gets 100% range bonus on its rails (90% with hac 4), all that is proposed is a 50-75% range bonus (ie: 10-15% per level, corresponding to 40-60% range bonus at lvl 4).
Lumy Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.03.05 16:47:00 - [357] Originally by: Captator FYI eagle gets 100% range bonus on its rails (90% with hac 4), all that is proposed is a 50-75% range bonus (ie: 10-15% per level, corresponding to 40-60% range bonus at lvl 4). Actully, it should be 125% resp. 110% at HAC lvl 4. 1.5x1.5 = 2.25 (lvl 5) 1.5x1.4= 2.1 (lvl 4) Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.03.05 21:12:00 - [358] Could you please try a 5% pl shield hp bonus on the loki or add 75cpu to the shield bonus defensive subsystem, as it stands, active shield tanking is pretty much impossible on the ship. Also, could you change the fall off bonus to a tracking bonus or just add one to that subsystem pretty please? ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Gadrin Demarr Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.05 21:20:00 - [359] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Originally by: Gadrin Demarr Actually, I'm with Jack here: If they are better than the specialized T2 ships at their jobs, then the T2 ships will not be worth flying and effectively obsolete. I don't think CCP have the intention to replace the entire T2 market and production with the equivalent T3. That would be a disaster. T3 must be an alternative, not the only sensible choice. If T3 >>>>> T2, everyone will want T3. If everyone wants T3 there will be a lot of money to be made from producing them. If all manufacturers move over to producing/farming T3, the supply will be plenty, prices will remain at reasonable levels (100-150 mil?) and most will be able to afford them. Result: Everyone who is not crap-poor or noob will be flying T3 against eachother and we can effectively remove T2 cruisers/BCs from the game. I.e. disaster. It seems pefectly clear to me: They can't be uber at the same things T2 are! They must either be delicately balanced or perform a different role if you want to avoid making T2 obsolete! I am disagreeing with you here. T2 will still have the higher specialisation and due to their Bonuses will be more useful than T3 in certain roles. With nerfed CPU and PG the T3 ships are not much more then overpriced T1 Cruisers. For their extra price and risk of SP loss they would be without a real benefit over Battlecruisers and only collecting dust in the hangars. Well, if what you're saying turns out to be true: that T2 will still be more suited for their intended role, then there is no problem and I totally agree. But if they can both out-tank and out-gank a HAC, for example, then it will be the HAC which is collecting dust in the hangar. At the moment the stats seem more like BCs than cruisers and with slots like a battleship I fear that they'll be the bee all and end all of cruisers. Hell, they may even eclipse BCs. But in any case I'm hoping that CCP are aware of this and that they're remembering how T2 turned out. I don't think T2 was intended to replace T1 to become standard ships like they are today.
Captator Empire Assault Corp	Posted - 2009.03.05 21:57:00 - [360] Originally by: Lumy Originally by: Captator FYI eagle gets 100% range bonus on its rails (90% with hac 4), all that is proposed is a 50-75% range bonus (ie: 10-15% per level, corresponding to 40-60% range bonus at lvl 4). Actully, it should be 125% resp. 110% at HAC lvl 4. 1.5x1.5 = 2.25 (lvl 5) 1.5x1.4= 2.1 (lvl 4) You are quite correct, so this means a 15-20% bonus is not inordinate?

Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.03.05 22:02:00 - [361] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 05/03/2009 22:04:49 Originally by: Pattern Clarc Also, could you change the fall off bonus to a tracking bonus or just add one to that subsystem pretty please? Please dont, keep the falloff as its way more useful than tracking (we got enough tracking anyway, if you want more use a low for TE), the damage is already poor, no need to gimp it further. OTOH, having 5% damage, 5% falloff and 2.5% tracking on the subsystem wouldnt hurt at all. Still tracking is the first thing I'd give up of these if we cant have 3, for obvious reasons.
Pattern Clarc	Posted - 2009.03.05 22:56:00 - [362] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Still tracking is the first thing I'd give up of these if we cant have 3, for obvious reasons. Used artillery much? ____ My Blog Is Awesome
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.03.05 23:15:00 - [363] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 05/03/2009 23:20:51 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 05/03/2009 23:17:08 Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Lilith Velkor Still tracking is the first thing I'd give up of these if we cant have 3, for obvious reasons. Used artillery much? Well, I'm using autocannons more, but I used artillery enough to know having more range gives better hits than having more tracking. Basically, extended range translates into tracking better than a tracking bonus. A falloff bonus (or a combined optimal+falloff) benefits both systems, while tracking is worthless for ACs.
Destructor1792 Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.05 23:20:00 - [364] Well after trying multiple setups on the loki, I've found one which was a gem.. that was it!! Rest were all very "meh" with different setups of which my other T2 ships can do alot better! Disappointed but not overly surprised as Minny ships seem to get the raw end of the stick (not all the time..just most of it.) Worth training for when it goes lives IF it stays how it is? For me, no. Newer players will no doubt have an absolute blast in them (til they get owned in a little pew pew) but for me, they're just not gonna be worth the effort to train up - rather divert my SP into things I'm currently using! I'll still continue to faff about in them on sisi (same as the Vargur ) in the hope that they'll get looked at properly but i ain't holding my breath!! ______________________________________ Bringing The Fun Back [gold]I Have No Fear, That's your Problem[/go
Lijhal FrEE d00M Fighters	Posted - 2009.03.06 09:24:00 - [365] Originally by: Destructor1792 On a final note, my biggest disappointment so far has been the fact that other race subsytems cannot be plugged into your ship - For me (and probably others), this would have made T3 truely worth while & completely versatile (how many different combos!? 1.6mill there abouts ). Imagine what wonderful designs and layouts we'd all be coming up with then? Imagine the PVP Soon (TM) ... if the factions in eve learn about t3, it will be possible to mix racial subsystems .... hold on a year or two .. then we have tech 3 bs too :P
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2009.03.06 14:04:00 - [366] Of all the tests I ran, the major thing that needs to be changed is the drone hitpoint bonus on the gallente defensive module. From a defensive perspective, it would be better for a drone ship to have more dron bay than to have drones slightly more resistant to dmg. Specially if WH NPCs keep focusing fire on your drones...(by the way, no normal pvp, with the sole exception of fighters, no one calls drones primaries...) Every other bonus seems to be usefull at the lvl it is, without being overpowered. Some slot layouts could be retought for the full gank, 7 turrets setups of the legion and loki, but even that would be only a minimal change(one more low, slight less PG?) Regards, Lobo
OneSock Crown Industries	Posted - 2009.03.06 15:06:00 - [367] Just some feedback on Drone use really. Proteus, Using "Augmented Drone Plating" defensive module. Drones still get alpha'd by say 4 Awakened Cruisers. GardeIIs last about long enough to scoop, but hammer 2s drop like flies. 10% drone HP per level for this mod. I'd say it's pointless module/bonus. Not up to the job. (at least for sleeper stuff). Sure it tanks like a beast with 8 lows ! But you can't kill anything with no DPS better off with moar guns !
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.03.06 16:38:00 - [368] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 06/03/2009 16:42:00 Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 06/03/2009 16:39:12 Originally by: Destructor1792 Well after trying multiple setups on the loki ... Short bevor the server went down today I tryed a very nice working Loki setup for groups. Remote repair system webber system AB speed system this 50/50 mix system grid system with additional launcher/turrets Had some problems fitting it as my Mini-toon has no armortank skills atm but with some ducktape g I got a nice setup :). Tanks a bit, suports, does some OK damage and has a great slotlayout. PS: combining all moduls equal of race would call BIG trouble. ECM modul, laser modul, dronebay modul, 8/8/8 slotlayouts, .... Way to hard to balance or they had to make them all equal :/. Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
Javonite	Posted - 2009.03.06 16:48:00 - [369] For the record, I have yet only assembled a Strategic Cruiser; so I'm not trying to judge whether the ships have an "identity crisis", or not. I'm also aware of the "no solo pwnmobiles" mantra, which the game revolves around. I respect that. That being said. In my opinion, the most unique thing about the Strategic Cruisers isn't the Subsystem scheme and configurability. It's the fact that when you die you lose SP, no matter what. If the SP loss isn't there to justify the ship surpassing older ships, then what's the point?
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.03.06 17:05:00 - [370] Originally by: Javonite If the SP loss isn't there to justify the ship surpassing older ships, then what's the point? CCP internal: T3 = give old chars a toy. On death slow down the process rate of old player so rookies are able to close up a tiny little bit. But T3 are great ships regardless what some people try to tell you. Fitting oversized stuff MUST result in CPU/GRID problems. Else they would be Strategic BATTLEcruiser or Battleships and not CRUISER . Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.

ChalSto LOCKDOWN.	Posted - 2009.03.07 02:06:00 - [371] I sooo see the incoming whine of all the carebears... ....therefore.....nerf carebears Wellcome to the dark harsh world that Hello Kitty Online is.....errr...... .....I mean EvE!! Originally by: Agmar ----------------------------------------------- "The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens."
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.07 05:41:00 - [372] then why do people fly tempests instead of fleet issue tempests?
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2009.03.07 07:43:00 - [373] only tested the legion so far. currently i like it. a lot. its great but i have 2 small complaints. 1. it seems to be very to get more than 4 turret hard points... actually there is only one possible way to get more than 4 hard points: Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier. all 3 current offensive systems give 4 turret points, and the only other subsystem to change that number at all is the Power Core Multiplier, which adds 2 turret hard points and one launcher. i think we need one of two more options here. more subsystems that add either launcher or preferably turret points. i dont know if this is in line with other races but it seems.. a bit weird. heck, i know the proteus and tengu can both get 7 weapons fit, while the legion can never achieve this. 2. i want to be able to field a 5 medium drones. perhaps have something like the nos subsystem add 25m3/25mb. maybe thats asking too much, but thats what i would like to see.
Breed Love FinFleet KenZoku	Posted - 2009.03.07 11:14:00 - [374] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Fitting oversized stuff MUST result in CPU/GRID problems. Else they would be Strategic BATTLEcruiser or Battleships and not CRUISER . What is this oversized stuff you keep on whining about in every thread about t3? ----- Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
Gadrin Demarr Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.07 12:11:00 - [375] Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: Jack Jombardo Fitting oversized stuff MUST result in CPU/GRID problems. Else they would be Strategic BATTLEcruiser or Battleships and not CRUISER . What is this oversized stuff you keep on whining about in every thread about t3? 1600 mm plate on a cruiser, for example.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.07 12:37:00 - [376] Originally by: Gadrin Demarr Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: Jack Jombardo Fitting oversized stuff MUST result in CPU/GRID problems. Else they would be Strategic BATTLEcruiser or Battleships and not CRUISER . What is this oversized stuff you keep on whining about in every thread about t3? 1600 mm plate on a cruiser, for example. but why would you ever fit that over 2 800s? you can fit it, and you use half the powergrid to fit both.
Cassandra Wolf Gallente Men in Blue Mining Corporation Cold Steel Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.07 13:56:00 - [377] Slots?
Carniflex Caldari Schmoo Manufacturing Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.07 13:58:00 - [378] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Gadrin Demarr Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: Jack Jombardo Fitting oversized stuff MUST result in CPU/GRID problems. Else they would be Strategic BATTLEcruiser or Battleships and not CRUISER . What is this oversized stuff you keep on whining about in every thread about t3? 1600 mm plate on a cruiser, for example. but why would you ever fit that over 2 800s? you can fit it, and you use half the powergrid to fit both. If you have grid to spare to fit 1600 mm it makes no sense to fit 2x 800 mm as that way you can use the 'spare' slot for something better like extra damage mod or hardener. Yes - current T1/T2 cruisers can also fit 1600 mm plate - however it means that they have to do some compromise in some other sections, like not using the biggest guns usually. Then again - I myself have not poked at 1600 mm plates on T3 so far as I have been focusing on missionrunnng effectivity on Tengu.
Breed Love FinFleet KenZoku	Posted - 2009.03.07 17:42:00 - [379] 1600mm plate is about the only (I dont count LSE as bs sized mod) oversized mod useful for cruiser sized ships and even then it comes with some serious penalties, such as agility nerf and -500pg. And no, you cannot fit 1600mm and the biggest guns on any t3 ship with any kind of useful pvp setup. So stop whining, their cpu/pg is just fine. ----- Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.08 00:43:00 - [380] Originally by: Breed Love 1600mm plate is about the only (I dont count LSE as bs sized mod) oversized mod useful for cruiser sized ships and even then it comes with some serious penalties, such as agility nerf and -500pg. And no, you cannot fit 1600mm and the biggest guns on any t3 ship with any kind of useful pvp setup. So stop whining, their cpu/pg is just fine. well.... other than the loki having 320 cpu ... :(

Zeane Mereanor	Posted - 2009.03.08 11:39:00 - [381] T3 ships are supposed to be modular and versitail. Ok... got that. But why is all I see combat oriented bonuses. Ok "startegic cruiser" kind of implies that, but I had hopes for more when the T3 ships where mentioned first. Where are the bonuses for tranctor speed/range, salvaging chance, cargo capacity, mining and other non-combat roles? Those could have been put on any of the modules ontop of the existing bonuses without screwing the balance at all.... that would make a truely diverse class of ships. In my opinion this is the most unreasonable part of the current realisation of the T3 concept. (read CCP droped the ball here...) People would pay much more for a pimped out salvaging ship than for a combat ship that has an arguable combat efficency compared to HACs, and costs skill points if lost in combat.
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.08 16:45:00 - [382] New Bonus on every Subsystem! Legion Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level 15% bonus to remote armor repairers and shield transporter effectiveness per level Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints per level. Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to ship sensor strength, 10% bonus to max targeting range per level. Legion Electronics - Energy Parasitic Complex Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer amount per level. Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in signature radius and a 15% bonus to scan resolution per level. Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level. Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level. Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to power output per level. Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to medium energy turret capacitor use, 12.5% bonus to medium energy turret damage, 7.5% bonus to medium energy turret tracking speed per level. Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to medium energy turret capacitor use, 10% bonus to drone damage, 7.5% bonus to drone hitpoints per level. Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to medium energy turret capacitor use, 12.5% bonus to medium energy turret damage, 10% bonus to medium energy turret optimal range per level. Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to max velocity per level. Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Subsystem Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to afterburner speed per level. Legion Propulsion - Wake Limiter Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level. Conclusion: -> Legion could now be "better" then Zealot if fitted for Lasergank, and is able to transform into a T3 Arbitrator... Epic!
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.08 16:57:00 - [383] Part II:Loki Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level 15% bonus to remote armor repairers and shield transporter effectiveness per level Loki Defensive - Amplification Node Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to shield booster effectiveness per level. Loki Defensive - Nanobot Injector Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to ship sensor strength, 10% bonus to max targeting range per level. Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers Subsystem Skill Bonus: 30% bonus to stasis webifier range per level. Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in signature radius and a 15% bonus to scan resolution per level. Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level. Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level. Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to power output per level. Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire, 7.5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level. Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire, 10% bonus to medium projectile falloff per level. Loki Offensive - Turret Concurrence Registry Subsystem Skill Bonus: 12.5% bonus to medium projectile turret damage, 10% bonus to medium projectile turret optimal range per level. Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to max velocity per level. Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Subsystem Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to afterburner speed per level. Loki Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% increased agility per level. Conclusion: -> Loki could now be worth the hazzle! But ill leave the final judgement to the scrapheap experts.
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:03:00 - [384] Edited by: Perry on 08/03/2009 17:04:07 Edited by: Perry on 08/03/2009 17:03:53 Part III: Tengu Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to shield hitpoints per level. Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level. 15% bonus to remote armor repairers and shield transporter effectiveness per level Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to shield booster effectiveness per level. Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to CPU per level. Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to ship sensor strength, 10% bonus to targeting range per level. Tengu Electronics - Obfuscation Manifold Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal range per level. Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level. Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level. Tengu Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to power output per level. Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage, 7.5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire, 10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level. Tengu Offensive - Magnetic Infusion Basin Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage, 20% bonus to medium hybrid turret optimal range per level. Tengu Offensive - Obfuscation Manifold Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level. 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level. Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Subsystem Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to afterburner speed per level. Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to warp speed and a 15% reduction in capacitor need when initiating warp per level. Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% increased agility per level. Conclusion: -> By now its clear that ccp abandoned their "T3 is broad" BS and went down the "awesome" road to Epic Town.

CCP Chiliad	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:14:00 - [385] As you've noticed, a lot of changes have been introduced over the weekend patches to test server. We've also noticed a couple of glitches for instance in some cap recharge values and we're fixing those for the next SiSi build. Once we're done with fixing those, a more thorough breakdown of the changes will follow.

Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:16:00 - [386] Part IV: Proteus Proteus Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter ubsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level. 15% bonus to remote armor repairers and shield transporter effectiveness per level Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints per level. Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level Proteus Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to CPU per level. Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to ship sensor strength, 10% bonus to max targeting range per level. Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to warp disruptor and warp scrambler range per level. Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to drone MWD speed, 7.5% bonus to drone hitpoints per level. Proteus Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level. Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to power output per level. Proteus Offensive - Dissonic Encoding Platform Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage, 7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret rate of fire, 10% bonus to medium hybrid turret falloff per level. Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage, 10% bonus to drone damage, 7.5% bonus to drone hitpoints per level. Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature Subsystem Skill Bonus: 12.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage, 10% bonus to medium hybrid turret falloff per level. Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to warp speed and a 15% reduction in capacitor need when initiating warp per level. Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in afterburner and microwarpdrive capacitor consumption per level. Proteus Propulsion - Wake Limiter Subsystem Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level. Final Words: I welcome our new T3 Overlords! And I am truly excited, no sarcasm intended! T3 must be Epic or it will fail and die in a fire...
Tabare Vazquez Uruguay Forever	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:34:00 - [387] Edited by: Tabare Vazquez on 08/03/2009 17:34:21 I just wish the subsystems were seeded, currently only one out of three is available and the builds possible with those are horrible.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.03.08 18:32:00 - [388] The legion has less low slots now :(
Lijhal FrEE d00M Fighters	Posted - 2009.03.08 22:50:00 - [389] the new t3 bonuses need more adjusting: Legion Electronics - Energy Parasitic Complex Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer amount per level. add a 10% range p.l. bonus to this one Proteus/Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to CPU per level These subsystems need a second bonus... give it a 10% p.l. Scan Resolution Bonus Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage, 7.5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire, 10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level. replace the kinetic dmg part of this bonuses (remember, t3 should be broad, not specialized) with dmg to all missiles and make it 7,5% dmg / 10% RoF / 10% mis. vel. to be inline with the other offesive subsystems Tengu Offensive - Obfuscation Manifold Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level. 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level. Same as above, replace the kin part with dmg to all missiles and raise the dmg bonus up to 7,5-10% p.l. Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to drone MWD speed, 7.5% bonus to drone hitpoints per level. this subsystem has the same name like the 3 others (5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level), but gives another bonus ... change the name of this!
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 00:39:00 - [390] Quote: loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire, 7.5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level. Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire, 10% bonus to medium projectile falloff per level. Loki Offensive - Turret Concurrence Registry Subsystem Skill Bonus: 12.5% bonus to medium projectile turret damage, 10% bonus to medium projectile turret optimal range per level. seriously? what the hell, why do the ammar get three bonus? this is bull****. Give all races a 10% per level to ammo capacity per level at least

Janus Ovellian Minmatar Calpolli Namtz' aar K'in	Posted - 2009.03.09 02:15:00 - [391] Originally by: MotherMoon other than the loki having 320 cpu ... :( Worth noting that 2 of the minmatar defensive systems have additional cpu (50 and 90). And the third has additional pg (150). Similarly two of the caldari offensive modules have additional cpu (33 each), the third extra pg (350). Interesting times await...
Ferria Caldari FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.03.09 03:56:00 - [392] If you've been on Sisi today you will have noticed that things got changed today again, and is only partially seeded. I ended up with no drone bay on a galentee ship. odd
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 04:17:00 - [393] Originally by: Janus Ovellian Originally by: MotherMoon other than the loki having 320 cpu ... :( Worth noting that 2 of the minmatar defensive systems have additional cpu (50 and 90). And the third has additional pg (150). Similarly two of the caldari offensive modules have additional cpu (33 each), the third extra pg (350). ah must be new then :)
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.03.09 07:47:00 - [394] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 09/03/2009 07:48:53 Check Gallente or Caldari, they get 3 offensive bonuses as well. Actually, Gallente have it nuts, "7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage, 7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret rate of fire, 10% bonus to medium hybrid turret falloff per level". That's over 1k gun DPS with Neutrons and 2 MFS at Subsystem lvl 5 That said, Caldari don't lag far behind, with Rage Terror Tengu will easily break 1k dps mark too.
Carniflex Caldari Schmoo Manufacturing Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.09 08:20:00 - [395] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 09/03/2009 07:48:53 Check Gallente or Caldari, they get 3 offensive bonuses as well. Actually, Gallente have it nuts, "7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage, 7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret rate of fire, 10% bonus to medium hybrid turret falloff per level". That's over 1k gun DPS with Neutrons and 2 MFS at Subsystem lvl 5 That said, Caldari don't lag far behind, with Rage Terror Tengu will easily break 1k dps mark too. Sounds good. Have to take a look. Who needs Golem for mission running if you can use Tengu afterall. Assuming it could get reliably 1000+ dps from cruiser sized weapons.
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.03.09 08:43:00 - [396] Originally by: Carniflex Sounds good. Have to take a look. Who needs Golem for mission running if you can use Tengu afterall. Assuming it could get reliably 1000+ dps from cruiser sized weapons. Hm, guess I should apologise for misinformation Forgot that Tengu would have 6 launchers now, so that 1k DPS figure is considerably harder to reach. 3 faction BCS, Rage Terrors and close-to-max skills would make it though; now I'm not sure if HAMs are best tool for PvE, since I'm not doing it, but... PvP-wise it's pretty funny, even if we down the number to like 900 DPS... (oh, that's with flight of lights included) Proteus fitted for passive armor tank should be able to fit 6 Neutrons with 3xMFS, it comes to like 1150 DPS from guns alone With drones it will probably outgank Mega on most targets
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 09:06:00 - [397] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 09/03/2009 07:48:53 Check Gallente or Caldari, they get 3 offensive bonuses as well. Actually, Gallente have it nuts, "7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage, 7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret rate of fire, 10% bonus to medium hybrid turret falloff per level". That's over 1k gun DPS with Neutrons and 2 MFS at Subsystem lvl 5 That said, Caldari don't lag far behind, with Rage Terror Tengu will easily break 1k dps mark too. wait... then why do minmatar get so shafted? :( is nozh balancing the bonuses as if minmatar have the highest dps base turrets in the game or what?
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.09 09:15:00 - [398] Minmatar was king of the hill the past two years, now the cycle moves on and minmatar fades to worst race (again) so every nano***got must train another race. Wait 1-2 Years and Minmatar will shine again. Or learn your raxes strength properly and make the best out of it... like ... everyone else.
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.03.09 09:21:00 - [399] Originally by: MotherMoon wait... then why do minmatar get so shafted? :( is nozh balancing the bonuses as if minmatar have the highest dps base turrets in the game or what? Well, I've not tested Loki, it's too fugly for me. But if it's fine then who cares how many bonuses it has? Alas, if it's not fine, it's not about number of bonuses either.
Carniflex Caldari Schmoo Manufacturing Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.09 09:37:00 - [400] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Originally by: Carniflex Sounds good. Have to take a look. Who needs Golem for mission running if you can use Tengu afterall. Assuming it could get reliably 1000+ dps from cruiser sized weapons. Hm, guess I should apologise for misinformation Forgot that Tengu would have 6 launchers now, so that 1k DPS figure is considerably harder to reach. 3 faction BCS, Rage Terrors and close-to-max skills would make it though; now I'm not sure if HAMs are best tool for PvE, since I'm not doing it, but... PvP-wise it's pretty funny, even if we down the number to like 900 DPS... (oh, that's with flight of lights included) Proteus fitted for passive armor tank should be able to fit 6 Neutrons with 3xMFS, it comes to like 1150 DPS from guns alone With drones it will probably outgank Mega on most targets Considering that last time I looked most sensible midsection for mission running was the one granting afterburner bonuses HAM's might work ok for missionrunning. Tengu can do quite reliably around 500 m/s on afterburner even when not fitted extra for speed (or was able to do few days ago, not sure about current iteration). Dunno about 1000 dps tho, Might be a fit far fetched even for HAM's. However if it was possible with 7 launchers without taking into account proper hardiwres it should be possible with 6 launchers with proper hardwires (5% RoF and 5% damage add up for roughly same effect as 7th launcher without those would). Will try to take a look myself after SiSi comes up again.

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 10:02:00 - [401] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Originally by: MotherMoon wait... then why do minmatar get so shafted? :( is nozh balancing the bonuses as if minmatar have the highest dps base turrets in the game or what? Well, I've not tested Loki, it's too fugly for me. But if it's fine then who cares how many bonuses it has? Alas, if it's not fine, it's not about number of bonuses either. it's not about the bonuses? bonuses are the only real thing that seperate ships aside form base stats and skills. there is a BIG different between minmatar getting 7.5% rof per level and 10% falloff bonus per level. and gallente getting 7.5% rof per level , 10% falloff bonus per level , and 7.5% damage per level. If you don't see how this is better than the minmatar bonus, or doesn't make a real different in combat, your a damned fool.
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.03.09 10:22:00 - [402] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 09/03/2009 10:22:59 You don't have much of a clue, do you? I never said Loki was fine, and I actually stated I've not tested it even. As far as bonuses go, you could have one ship with 4 turrets with rof and dmg bonuses and you could have a ship with 5 turrets and just rof bonus, go figure. They'd be pretty much the same in many regards. If Gallente will have 5 turrets in most fits, while Minnie would get 7 turrets then the bonuses would be quite okay. If that's not the case then it should be looked into obviously. But just wailing about how you get less bonuses, hence your ship sucks is not very smart. Btw, new build dumbed down T3 options quite a bit. AB bonus system got nerfed from 20% pl to 10% pl, MWD sig reduction 15%->5% pl; Electronic subsystems with scanres and sig reduction had their sig reduction part cut away =\ Overall sig also got increased, etc. They really look like the only viable way would be to fit them in gank/tank ways @Carniflex - I was talking with hardwirings counted in already :)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 11:07:00 - [403] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 09/03/2009 10:22:59 You don't have much of a clue, do you? I never said Loki was fine, and I actually stated I've not tested it even. As far as bonuses go, you could have one ship with 4 turrets with rof and dmg bonuses and you could have a ship with 5 turrets and just rof bonus, go figure. They'd be pretty much the same in many regards. If Gallente will have 5 turrets in most fits, while Minnie would get 7 turrets then the bonuses would be quite okay. If that's not the case then it should be looked into obviously. But just wailing about how you get less bonuses, hence your ship sucks is not very smart. 1st of all I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. ok, I never said you said the loki was good or bad I was only talking about about what you said that bonuses aren't everything. on tech 3, only one type of loki can get 7 turrets and you give up a lot for that. normally you'll have just 5 with that bonus. SO that doesn't excuse the huge difference in bonuses. I was only arguing that bonuses are more important than you were stating. that's all :)
Lijhal FrEE d00M Fighters	Posted - 2009.03.09 11:28:00 - [404] confirming that all t3 bonuses should be equal!! do it ccp, do it
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 12:35:00 - [405] Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/03/2009 12:38:08 Allright ccp, here is my idea for the loki subsystems. seeing as you can only get 6 turrets on it now TOPS. you don't have to use them at all, but think about it. COMBAT subsystem 1: 12.5% bonus to turret damage per level/10% Optimal range per level/12.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level subsystem 2: 7.5% bonus to turret RoF per level/10% falloff per level/10% bonus to tracking per level subsystem 3: 7.5% bonus to turret rof per level/7.5% bonus to missle rof per level/10% reduction in drone sig radius per level now you have a sniping set up artillery set up with painters A close up autocannon gank fit with tracking bonus And a split weapon system ship with faster drones/harder to kill drones see fair bonuses, that make each system more useful. or subsystem 1: 20% bonus to turret damage per level/10% bonus to optimal range per level hell or this! subsystem 1: Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed and 12.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage per level Penalty: -30% Rate Of Fire for all turrets Bonus: 10% bonus to optimal range for projectile turrets per level sound familiar? it should http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Thrasher This would make the loki a cruiser alpha turret boat, while still giving less dps than the galanete 7.5%rof/7.5%damage/10%falloff Give us options CCP, without actually making it any better than the munnin at RAW turret use, instead being good with one type of turret at a time. or another option is 20% bonus to turret damage per level -25% ROF for turrets 10% optimal per level now you get double alpha guns, at less dps than the gallante tech 3 boat.
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.03.09 12:42:00 - [406] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 09/03/2009 12:43:14 Originally by: MotherMoon 1st of all I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. ok, I never said you said the loki was good or bad I was only talking about about what you said that bonuses aren't everything. on tech 3, only one type of loki can get 7 turrets and you give up a lot for that. normally you'll have just 5 with that bonus. SO that doesn't excuse the huge difference in bonuses. I was only arguing that bonuses are more important than you were stating. that's all :) Well, bonuses are still that.. bonuses; they're applied to a certain base value, so final value depends on that base as much as it does on bonuses. I can sort of agree that CCP went over the top with Caldari/Gallente. Basically if you think of usual 5% rof/dmg bonuses as of single ones, then 12.5% dmg pl is 2x5% dmg bonuses applied on top of each other, same with 7.5% rof pl, it's dual bonus. In the end, Gallente get... 3.5 direct dmg related bonuses(7.5% rof and 7.5% dmg), Caldari get 3(7.5% rof and 5% kin dmg), Amarr get 2(12.5% dmg), Minnie get 2(7.5% rof OR 12.5% dmg). Why is that the case? Well, looks obvious that CCP don't want Amarr/Minmatar to have just-your-usual gankboats in T3. Now that said, Gallente may end up with sick DPS but nothing else, like Deimos vs Zealot/Vaga comparison, etc. What I don't like is the recent iteration of bonuses, i.e. AB bonus nerf(lol, why?), Sig Radius bonus removal(again.. why? won't it be better to reduce scan res bonus?) and stuff like that. Makes T3 mostly gank/tank boats without peculiar features.
Brutolina	Posted - 2009.03.09 12:45:00 - [407] Why o why did you take away the signature reduction bonus on the Loki. Makes me a sad panda How stupid I was thinking my Halo set would finally being remotely useful.
Xonja 2zero Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.09 12:46:00 - [408] Originally by: MotherMoon there is a BIG different between minmatar getting 7.5% rof per level and 10% falloff bonus per level. and gallente getting 7.5% rof per level , 10% falloff bonus per level , and 7.5% damage per level. If you don't see how this is better than the minmatar bonus, or doesn't make a real different in combat, your a damned fool. I'm fine with the Loki getting the same gun bonuses, as soon as the Proteus gets the same base speed, and 150% bonus to scram range, because that's surely the same thing too. Sarcasm aside, i haven't tried the Loki since i lack the necessary Projectile/Missile skills to be able to really judge its performance. But to me it looks like it will be perfectly able to do the same thing a Vaga can do, engage several targets and bug out if things don't go your way. The difference being is that with the Loki, the number of targets you can kite is limited by the number of webs you want to bring. Fit some ambit extensions and light armor tank, maybe a TD and you're good to go. I'm not a big number cruncher or EFT warrior, but i have a pretty good feeling of what works from years of PVP, as well as practicing with friends to translate stats into experience. If my maths are off, please correct me on the following: Loki, Huggabond def: amp node elc: immo driver eng: cap regen matrix off: proj scoping array prp: chassis opt Hi/Med/Low 5/5/6 5 turrets, 10% dmg/10% falloff per level drones 30mbit/45m¦ 937.5 powergrid 400 cpu 180m/s + 25% (Navigation V) + 5% (Prop Subs V) = 281.25m/s base speed 100m - 25% (Def Subs V) = 75m signature radius An example setup for the above would be: Hi:5x 220 T2 Autos Med: 1x Y-T8 or T2 MWD 2x T2 or better web 1x T2 or better disruptor Low:1x DCU II 1x Armor Kin II 1x Armor Exp II 1x MAR II 1x Nano T2 or better Rigs:3x Projectile rigs to taste, i.e. 2x Ambit/1x Burst for 30km falloff For comparison, a Huginn is 10m/s slower, and has half the lowslots to begin with. Add one T2 Nano to the Loki and you get 307.69 base. More turret DPS than a Vaga, plus spare drones. Just 10m more signature radius than a Scimitar. The only thing that's missing here would be +1 mid or high slot for injector/utility. No CPU issues at all in this build, although for shield tanking setups, more might be needed. I suspect the CPU got nerfed so badly because of the lolpassivetank setups that were possible. I don't get why CCP still won't stacking penalize SPRs, but that's off topic. Anyway, with the above setup the only limiting factor is how much you want to spend on faction gear. With proper webs and disruptor, you can engage any two ships safely out of heavy Neut range. Anything except heavy missile or laserboats without risk to yourself at all. Replace one web with a TD and you can engage any single turret ship without risk to yourself at all. If you can't kill, run! It's the most survivable of all the T3 ships. In wolfpacks, it is definitely the scariest in my opinion. What more can you ask, want a neut bonus maybe? Oh wait, we already have a Curse, and it's probably the only ship you'd be worried about. TL;DR: Vaga/Huginn remix, sounds like a fair deal to me.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 12:58:00 - [409] Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/03/2009 13:01:37 but they nerfed the web bonus to 10%. edit:no they needed! damn forum info! 30% bonus to stasis webifier range per level and the afterburner bonus. also I don't want the same bonus as the gallante I was thinking a 10%/7.5% tracking bonus. Finally yes it's not that's a bad ship, but the gallenete ship can do everything BUT the webrange increase. which it instead gets as a scram range bonus. So as far as EW I think the minmatar and gallenete ship are even. they both get the sig radius reduction. they both get everything the same BUT, the type of weapons, and the bonuses. same number of turrets even. oh and the gallenete ship always has a better drone bay too boot. so I don't see the justification for lack of a bonus. edit: ok point still stands, gallente get super MWD killer at long range, minmatar get web range. where does the loki deserve 37.5% less damage due to balance? or in my opinion, a tracking bonus.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.03.09 13:03:00 - [410] Aw WTF they did nerf the AB bonus for the Legion too. WTH CCP! There's no way that was overpowered, 700m/s with an AB isn't exactly fast...

IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.03.09 13:06:00 - [411] OH nice, the powergrid on all the T3 ships was drastically reduced overnight.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 13:17:00 - [412] Originally by: IceAero Edited by: IceAero on 09/03/2009 13:12:33 Edited by: IceAero on 09/03/2009 13:10:58 OH nice, the powergrid on all the T3 ships was drastically reduced overnight. EDIT: For the record, some setups did have a lot of PG, so I'm ok with you reducing it. But you went too far! The Tengu and Loki are still going to be able to passive shield tank, and you just took away the ability for a Proteus or Legion to fit an oversized plate with the help of an Ancillary Current Router, now it's almost mandatory to have one! That's not good... they could introduce fitting bonuses to help with this maybe.... I don't know anymore too tired.
Elendra Ragnek	Posted - 2009.03.09 16:55:00 - [413] Edited by: Elendra Ragnek on 09/03/2009 16:58:40 Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/03/2009 13:01:37 but they nerfed the web bonus to 10%. edit:no they needed! damn forum info! 30% bonus to stasis webifier range per level and the afterburner bonus. also I don't want the same bonus as the gallante I was thinking a 10%/7.5% tracking bonus. Finally yes it's not that's a bad ship, but the gallenete ship can do everything BUT the webrange increase. which it instead gets as a scram range bonus. So as far as EW I think the minmatar and gallenete ship are even. they both get the sig radius reduction. they both get everything the same BUT, the type of weapons, and the bonuses. same number of turrets even. oh and the gallenete ship always has a better drone bay too boot. so I don't see the justification for lack of a bonus. edit: ok point still stands, gallente get super MWD killer at long range, minmatar get web range. where does the loki deserve 37.5% less damage due to balance? or in my opinion, a tracking bonus. For a minute there I thought these things might actually be worth the cost and risk of flying them but looks like CCP have pulled the rug at the last minute. TBH given these substantial changes a day before launch we have no way of testing and providing useful feedback so we are straight back to the good old pre-nerf days. Looks like this will be another ship to muck around on on SISI but no point going to the time and effort of trying to build and fly em for real pvp with these crappy bonuses Loki were looking like viable AB fit roaming ships but with these nerfs you can no longer hope to dictate range against a MWD shipt in disruptor range so now you have to go back to an mwd and thats one of the most useful subsytems for minnie ships now wasted.
Inflationem Faba	Posted - 2009.03.09 17:53:00 - [414] tbh, much as I hate to defend CCP, if these cruisers were to remain this overpowered (cruisers dealing 1100dps to me is overpowered), then large alliances like BoB and Goonswarm would just begin "mining" wormholes for these things and add to their already rediculous fleets. T3 ships have to be something that are really cool in solo or small gang fleets, but not so incredible that everyone has to have one. Its kind of like with the T2 BS. They are really handy for certain situations (maurader = mission ship, black ops is a big SB with short range jump capability). Neither of which I want in my large fleets. (maybe the black ops for a small ninja fleet, but that's about it.) I'd rather spend my isk on a carrier or some faction fit ship for the amounds people still want for them. If CCP does feel like coming around and beefing them up again, how about this offer: Return the ships to one of the earlier rediculous setups, and restrict them to low sec and 0.0. At least then whoever is in the cross hairs of a t3 gunsight will be more likely to put up a fight.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.03.09 18:15:00 - [415] Originally by: Inflationem Faba tbh, much as I hate to defend CCP, if these cruisers were to remain this overpowered (cruisers dealing 1100dps to me is overpowered), then large alliances like BoB and Goonswarm would just begin "mining" wormholes for these things and add to their already rediculous fleets. T3 ships have to be something that are really cool in solo or small gang fleets, but not so incredible that everyone has to have one. Its kind of like with the T2 BS. They are really handy for certain situations (maurader = mission ship, black ops is a big SB with short range jump capability). Neither of which I want in my large fleets. (maybe the black ops for a small ninja fleet, but that's about it.) I'd rather spend my isk on a carrier or some faction fit ship for the amounds people still want for them. If CCP does feel like coming around and beefing them up again, how about this offer: Return the ships to one of the earlier rediculous setups, and restrict them to low sec and 0.0. At least then whoever is in the cross hairs of a t3 gunsight will be more likely to put up a fight. I lol'd
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.09 20:33:00 - [416] everything just changed ranodmy 6 hours after they changed everythign on them :P one of the devs told me "they wanted to keep us on our toes" so I say once a week they shufle the bonuses around with a possible of 10 and just surprize us every month! now that would be modular.
The Economist Logically Consistent	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:24:00 - [417] So just before patch day they change the bonuses again, re-nerf the fittings and bugger up market seeding of the subsystems allowing for little to no testing of said last minute changes.... ...sounds like a recipe for success to me!
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:20:00 - [418] Why do you took away the dual bonus of Armor AND Shield Remote repair ? :( This was the most exciting bonus I'd like to take. Loki with the old modul was so sweet for Gangs. And for the new Amarr offense moduls: The drone module is nice BUT why not even 20 or 25 m3 bay/band for the other moduls ? :( One TD and you are out of fight with the other two moduls. One Frig (even a slow one) and you can't do anythink anymore :/. Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.03.10 19:18:00 - [419] no one argues that they didn't screw up with the latest changes... question is, what now? =\
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:48:00 - [420] Edited by: fuxinos on 10/03/2009 20:52:27 Originally by: IceAero question is, what now? =\ Wait 2 years, or probably more, until they fix em ( o/ Black Ops ). Why the heck did they open all these threads about feedback and blabla... if they change it anyway? proof of failure

Misaki Yuuko	Posted - 2009.03.10 22:17:00 - [421] have anyone checked the bonuses on TQ to see which have made it finally? (can't log right now)
Kagura Nikon Minmatar M. Corp	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:48:00 - [422] Originally by: Xonja 2zero Edited by: Xonja 2zero on 09/03/2009 13:03:55 Originally by: MotherMoon there is a BIG different between minmatar getting 7.5% rof per level and 10% falloff bonus per level. and gallente getting 7.5% rof per level , 10% falloff bonus per level , and 7.5% damage per level. If you don't see how this is better than the minmatar bonus, or doesn't make a real different in combat, your a damned fool. I'm fine with the Loki getting the same gun bonuses, as soon as the Proteus gets the same base speed, and 150% bonus to scram range, because that's surely the same thing too. EDIT: Just in case you overlook the sarcasm: Peak DPS is worth nothing if you can't get in range to apply it. Which is why Gallente blasterboats suck and fail horribly unless you can stack the situation in your favor. Sarcasm aside, i haven't tried the Loki since i lack the necessary Projectile/Missile skills to be able to really judge its performance. But to me it looks like it will be perfectly able to do the same thing a Vaga can do, engage several targets and bug out if things don't go your way. The difference being is that with the Loki, the number of targets you can kite is limited by the number of webs you want to bring. Fit some ambit extensions and light armor tank, maybe a TD and you're good to go. I'm not a big number cruncher or EFT warrior, but i have a pretty good feeling of what works from years of PVP, as well as practicing with friends to translate stats into experience. If my maths are off, please correct me on the following: Loki, Huggabond def: amp node elc: immo driver eng: cap regen matrix off: proj scoping array prp: chassis opt Hi/Med/Low 5/5/6 5 turrets, 10% dmg/10% falloff per level drones 30mbit/45m¦ 937.5 powergrid 400 cpu 180m/s + 25% (Navigation V) + 25% (Prop Subs V) = 281.25m/s base speed 100m - 25% (Def Subs V) = 75m signature radius An example setup for the above would be: Hi:5x 220 T2 Autos Med: 1x Y-T8 or T2 MWD 2x T2 or better web 1x T2 or better disruptor Low:1x DCU II 1x Armor Kin II 1x Armor Exp II 1x MAR II 1x Nano T2 or better Rigs:3x Projectile rigs to taste, i.e. 2x Ambit/1x Burst for 30km falloff For comparison, a Huginn is 10m/s slower, and has half the lowslots to begin with. Add one T2 Nano to the Loki and you get 307.69 base speed. More turret DPS than a Vaga, plus spare drones. Just 10m more signature radius than a Scimitar. The only thing that's missing here would be +1 mid or high slot for injector/utility. No CPU issues at all in this build, although for shield tanking setups, more might be needed. I suspect the CPU got nerfed so badly because of the lolpassivetank setups that were possible. I don't get why CCP still won't stacking penalize SPRs, but that's off topic. Anyway, with the above setup the only limiting factor is how much you want to spend on faction gear. With proper webs and disruptor, you can engage any two ships safely out of heavy Neut range. Anything except heavy missile or laserboats without risk to yourself at all. Replace one web with a TD and you can engage any single turret ship without risk to yourself at all. If you can't kill, run! It's the most survivable of all the T3 ships. In wolfpacks, it is definitely the scariest in my opinion. What more can you ask, want a neut bonus maybe? Oh wait, we already have a Curse, and it's probably the only ship you'd be worried about. TL;DR: Vaga/Huginn remix, sounds like a fair deal to me. You clearly have NOT tried the ship. The loki is BARELY faster than the proteus And it really cannot even dream of doing the same type of action that the vagabond can. Vagabond is simply 2 times faster. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:45:00 - [423] Heya, just a short question to you CCP Nozh: Will there be any kind of final info on the ships? A devblog or something? Or is that it? ty -- Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:01:00 - [424] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 11/03/2009 19:05:02 Originally by: Kagura Nikon You clearly have NOT tried the ship. The loki is BARELY faster than the proteus And it really cannot even dream of doing the same type of action that the vagabond can. Vagabond is simply 2 times faster. Well the vaga is 700ms-1kms faster than the Loki (about .5 times faster), but the Loki can sport double long-range webs and a way better tank, and/or better firepower, and better range. The Loki actually is vagabond on easy mode with 2 lifelines instead of none if fit properly (which the quoted setup is not imo).
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2009.03.11 21:33:00 - [425] OH, I didn't even notice but when TQ went live they nerfed them even a little bit more! These 12.5% dmg bonuses: Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to medium energy turret capacitor use, 12.5% bonus to medium energy turret damage, 7.5% bonus to medium energy turret tracking speed per level. Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to medium energy turret capacitor use, 10% bonus to drone damage, 7.5% bonus to drone hitpoints per level. Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to medium energy turret capacitor use, 12.5% bonus to medium energy turret damage, 10% bonus to medium energy turret optimal range per level. Became 10% Thanks again CCP, now our BC sized T3 cruisers cannot out damage a T1 BC. This last nerf affected all races I believe, but I just use the Amarr as an example.


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