That limits the EDA's *entire* potential usefulness to select Ishtar and Gila fits

Dont forget about CPU rigs.

Personally I'd be very happy if it were moved to a high slot - most of my droneboat fits, by their nature, have high slots to spare; and in the fits where the high slots are currently full of guns, trading 20% of gun DPS for +20% drone DPS would make sense for a drone-skilled character whose base DPS is higher with drones.

Applied only to subcaps, meaning dedicated drone platforms, not for fighters.

Agreeing with everyone else.

It's not a good mod.

The idea is good, the implementation is bad.

I say let's make it a high slot mod: but let it use a turret hard point!

In that way you wont have max gank ships as they have to trade guns for drone damage.

Carriers can use any kind of drone (other than fighter-bombers), not just fighters.

There are a number of Drone ships without Gun hardpoints, or very few (Gila immediately springs to mind). The module is also not limited to just pure drone boats - there is no reason a drake couldn't fit one of these if it wanted to buff up its Warrior IIs (it would probably be a bad idea, but the option should be there). Consuming a highslot - any highslot - is a significant opportunity cost due to the high pressure for those slots.

On ships like the Dominix or Myrmidon, any highslot spent on an EDA (or any other utility module) is automatically one less gun that could be fit to the ship. That is a direct tradeoff in maximum damage. Even if you are only trading off utility highslots (such as found on the Ishtar), those highslots are still highly in demand for Neuts/Nos, Smarbombs, or a cloak. Each EDA fit reduces the ability to fit those wonderful modules, which is an opportunity cost not to be ignored. Since we are discussing a drone mod, you can't ignore the Drone Link Augmenter either as yet another module competing for those highslots (Gila's are painful without a DLA, and that's half your utility slots right there!).

I love the idea of making EDAs highslot, but making them consume actual turret/missile hardpoints is unnecessary and unfairly exclusionary to specific ships.

On ships like the Dominix or Myrmidon, any highslot spent on an EDA (or any other utility module) is automatically one less gun that could be fit to the ship.

You can't compare Drone DPS to Missile or Turret DPS.

Turrets or bays hit while you are moving your ship and apply the damage. Drone either force you to stand still or have less real DPS, because you have to consider the flighttime.

If you want Drone only, you have to increase raw DPS to equal it out.

If you only use magstabs and extrinsics you will end up having an awful tracking, thus mitigating you EFT DPS. Your shiledtank would be weakened, because you need 2 tracking enhancers and 2 omnis if you use 3 dmg mods of each kind, to be effective.

Turrets or bays hit while you are moving your ship and apply the damage. Drone either force you to stand still or have less real DPS, because you have to consider the flighttime.

If you want Drone only, you have to increase raw DPS to equal it out.

If you only use magstabs and extrinsics you will end up having an awful tracking, thus mitigating you EFT DPS.

Your shiledtank would be weakened, because you need 2 tracking enhancers and 2 omnis if you use 3 dmg mods of each kind, to be effective.

You lost all of your drones warping out? Fantastic just use your splash attack

If you want to be safe, you can always not fit the module :P

For the moving it to the highslot arguement, just no. Plain no. Drones have a nasty habbit of going pop in PvP and some certain PvE enviroments. You lost all of your drones warping out? Fantastic just use your splash attack or something when you get caught in a compremising situation heading back to the nearest station/or leave the roam early.

I realize there is already a team Super Friends feedback thread, however, the changes brought on by Team Super friends are extensive, and most of the thread is hereto date dedicated just to when Sisi will go live. As such, I feel its prudent to start a new thread for concise discussion.

As it stands, the Extrinsic Damage Amplifier II (henceforth EDA) is a 12% damage bonus for non-fighter drones, on a 40tf CPU module. This is, quite frankly, terrible. In fact, its so bad that I have to question if this is just a placeholder stat.

Your bog-standard T2 damage mod has two stats:
10% Damage Bonus
10.5% Rate of Fire Bonus

Combined, this results in a 22.9% damage increase *per* module. All turret modules cost 30CPU for their T2 variant, and the BCU's cost 40cpu for their T2 variant (presumably due to the higher than average CPU output of most missile boats).

Even worse, drone boats often come with the "drone-boat" tax. They have worse fittings, and fewer slots, than comparable non-drone vessels. This fitting tax insures that drone boats don't become OP killing machines with immense tanks and damage, but it also means they often wind up very tight on fittings. A 40cpu mod is absolutely ridiculous for most drone boats to try to squeeze on.


In other words, the EDA is terrible in two directions:
1) It provides half the damage bonus of regular damage modules
2) It costs 33% more fitting than standard damage modules, on top of the CPU limited nature of drone ships.

Perhaps the greatest insult, however, is that drones are already a low-damage platform. For all intents and purposes, drone damage caps out with the 50% hull bonus on Ogre IIs at 475 dps. For Ships like the Arbitrator line, that caps out with Hammerhead IIs at 238 dps. Even the standard 23% damage module may be too weak for them to work on these hulls as a competitive fitting option. We won't know until these are at least buffed to 23% and fits are played around with, but Domi's can do a *lot* more damage with guns than 475 dps. If we are to fit drone damage mods over regular old damage mods, they need to be pulling their weight in the opportunity-cost comparison.


To start balance testing, the EDA needs to be brought down to 30 CPU and 23% total DPS modifier. As it stands, the single 12% damage module will find use ONLY on ships with the following parameters:

1) Can deploy a full set of heavy or sentry drones
2) Cannot fit battleship class weapons

That limits the EDA's *entire* potential usefulness to select Ishtar and Gila fits, and maaaybe a few Domi's that completely forsake any turrets at all (such as ambulance, neut, or herd domis). Every other ship, including ships like the Curse, can get much better bang for their buck just fitting regular weapons (like Railguns or HMLs) and/or regular damage mods.

edit:

I agreed with Shish so much below I wanted to add this to the OP. EDA's in the lowslot are going to be a balancing nightmare, as many Drone ships rely on a strict lowslot allotment to tank, while others like the Dominix could potentially "double dip" Damage Mods and wind up with 1500+ DPS in shield-gank configurations. EDA's should be moved to become a highslot module in addition to the above changes to create fitting tension with the ship. As a high slot item, they can take advatnage of the utility highs many drone ships are given, while counter balancing against the need for neuts, turrets, and missile launchers for other sources of DPS.

Drone Control Units - EDA's elder brother - are also highslots, making this a much more natural feel than lowslot EDAs. It also creates natural tension when fitting those highslots as Drone Link Augmenters are also up there. Would you like neuts, smartbombs, cloaks, more damaging drones or longer range drones? That's some good opportunity cost decisions to make that simply don't exist in the lows.

Making it an high slot(and turret/missiles) item would:

1. increase the tank(mag stabs/bcu slots could be used to increase the tank)
2. give drone users the ability to avoid training gunnery(or missiles) skills at all
3. increase drone dps to such a point that it would equal that of turrets. (so 5 ogres/sentries+7 EDA in a bonused ship would do about 1200dps)
4. make drones a scalable weapon system, not stuck at 500dps.

But i see i'm talking about something completely different here.

So sticking to reality: make it an utility high slot, the increase in dps wont be so high to overpower ships.

Oh well, that ends it then.

Good module anyway, just not easy to adapt to.

A lot of fits will change to accomodate this.

Looking at the Blueprint requirements, I'm thinking that the tech II version is an excellent opportunity to help add some demand to the depressed PI commodity market. CCP could add Guidance Systems or Transmitters to the build requirements. or for a comedy option the otherwise useless 'Elite Drone AI'

Rattlesnake with these as high slot.....

..... yes please :D

+7 EDA? woot? that will make the drone range very limited ( 65km ), I'd really love 1200 dps on my rattle but the range is unacceptable, I would go something like 1 t2 cruise missile, 2x drone link augmentor and then rest EDA's

What we truly need is making Drone Control Units usable on all ships.
Having DCU in high slots and drone damage mods in low slots would be equal to turrets or missiles.
Obviously DCU will have to be rebalanced to add drone bandwith and capacity as well.

Their are high slot damage mods, they are called turrets/missiles. granted they don't give bonuses to damage, they are more direct, but the goal is is same, kill enemies faster than if you didn't have them.

I mean I won't mind if they added "drone guns" a module that launched a tiny drone to shoot at your enemies, I just want something to put in my high slots that's useful without sinking a bunch of points into another skill tree.

I increased the damage bonus to 12% and 15% for t1 and t2 respectively.

All hail our new 1300dps domi overlords. Can we have drone damage implants too? (Read: I believe the addition of a drone damage mod was a bad idea 4 years ago (never made it past sisi) and still is.)

I updated the modules slightly, it should be out on Sisi no later than Monday.

I reduced the CPU slightly (to 30 and 35 for t1 and t2 respectively)

I increased the damage bonus to 12% and 15% for t1 and t2 respectively.

Unfortunately, due to how drones work in the backend, I can't affect their RoF. But we should be able to tweak the other numbers to make the module on par with the damage amplifiers for other weapon types.

While we are discussing drones, can we get a look at the Acolyte's and Hornets so that they have an actual use?

I updated the modules slightly, it should be out on Sisi no later than Monday.

I reduced the CPU slightly (to 30 and 35 for t1 and t2 respectively)

I increased the damage bonus to 12% and 15% for t1 and t2 respectively.

Unfortunately, due to how drones work in the backend, I can't affect their RoF. But we should be able to tweak the other numbers to make the module on par with the damage amplifiers for other weapon types.

All hail our new 1300dps domi overlords. Can we have drone damage implants too? (Read: I believe the addition of a drone damage mod was a bad idea 4 years ago (never made it past sisi) and still is.)

Again, make them a highslot module so that they are useful to actual droneboat users and not just the EFT warriors.

and for that matter i believe missle buff modules shud be bigger than gun, do to the fact they have to deal with travel time in addition to ROF and DMG

All hail our new 1300dps domi overlords. Can we have drone damage implants too? (Read: I believe the addition of a drone damage mod was a bad idea 4 years ago (never made it past sisi) and still is.)

Again, make them a highslot module so that they are useful to actual droneboat users and not just the EFT warriors.

I updated the modules slightly, it should be out on Sisi no later than Monday.

I reduced the CPU slightly (to 30 and 35 for t1 and t2 respectively)

I increased the damage bonus to 12% and 15% for t1 and t2 respectively.

Unfortunately, due to how drones work in the backend, I can't affect their RoF. But we should be able to tweak the other numbers to make the module on par with the damage amplifiers for other weapon types.

Is there a specific reason for wanting to keep their overall effect on damage output lower than their counterparts for other weapons systems?

Yeah i mean you can-¦t tank in the meds no can-¦t you?

Maybe perhaps it would make them overpowered,.

I updated the modules slightly, it should be out on Sisi no later than Monday.

I reduced the CPU slightly (to 30 and 35 for t1 and t2 respectively)

I increased the damage bonus to 12% and 15% for t1 and t2 respectively.

Unfortunately, due to how drones work in the backend, I can't affect their RoF. But we should be able to tweak the other numbers to make the module on par with the damage amplifiers for other weapon types.

Given all the other limitations and special cases around drone combat I'm not sure a decent damage mod would suddenly make them OP.

You are nor sure i'am pretty sure it would , you never saw a fleet of domis with a massive drone bonus , and what special cases around drone combat do you mean?The ability to lock send drones and be emune to ewar?Tracking disrupters ?Nos neut?

The Only thing dependent of drones are the ability of us to kill them, and to outrun them and gain range.

First, when was the last time you saw a fleet of Domis? Honestly? Or heck, a fleet of Gallente ships, period? I've kept an eye on the top 20 killboards, and there's less and less Gallente boats there every year. A year ago, there were two. Now it's down to just one, and that is Talos in the #20 slot. Yeah, I guess in the grand scheme of things it's a meaningless statistic, but it does show something, because I honestly don't remember a Domi making the list in the past 3+ years.

The special cases around drone combat are the fact that they can be destroyed, and that even a dedicated drone boat can only carry a limited amount based on size, and their travel time.

The fastest drone still moves a heck of a lot slower than a missile, and way slower than any turret (which are instant). In many cases, drones (especially heavies) just don't make it to the target before it dies. Sentries don't have this issue, but suffer of all the shortcomings if any turret, plus they're stationary - you either babysit them, or you likely lose them because you have to warp out or they get destroyed while sitting there. If you lose them for whatever reason, you have to dock up and resupply (biggest non-carrier can only carry 3 flights of big heavy/sentry drones in its bay), not to mention the price tag associated with losing a flight of T2 heavies (3 mil at current Jita prices).

While drones travel, they use MWD and approach in a straight line - which results in zero transversal to a stationary target and increased signature radius. Need I say more? And then of course there's smartbombs. A single T2 smartbomb can kill most drones in 3-4 pulses, last time I checked.

There's very good reason why drone boats are just not being used often, or at all. And giving drone boats a module that is WORSE than its turret/missile counterpart is not going to change that status quo.

And another fun drone fact? There are still no implants to improve drone damage. Yep, implants for turrets/missiles were added in 2008, I believe. So, 4 years and counting of being treated as a red-headed step-child. And the only rig that increases damage only affects sentries.

First, when was the last time you saw a fleet of Domis? Honestly? Or heck, a fleet of Gallente ships, period? I've kept an eye on the top 20 killboards, and there's less and less Gallente boats there every year. A year ago, there were two. Now it's down to just one, and that is Talos in the #20 slot. Yeah, I guess in the grand scheme of things it's a meaningless statistic, but it does show something, because I honestly don't remember a Domi making the list in the past 3+ years.

The special cases around drone combat are the fact that they can be destroyed, and that even a dedicated drone boat can only carry a limited amount based on size, and their travel time.

The fastest drone still moves a heck of a lot slower than a missile, and way slower than any turret (which are instant). In many cases, drones (especially heavies) just don't make it to the target before it dies. Sentries don't have this issue, but suffer of all the shortcomings if any turret, plus they're stationary - you either babysit them, or you likely lose them because you have to warp out or they get destroyed while sitting there. If you lose them for whatever reason, you have to dock up and resupply (biggest non-carrier can only carry 3 flights of big heavy/sentry drones in its bay), not to mention the price tag associated with losing a flight of T2 heavies (3 mil at current Jita prices).

While drones travel, they use MWD and approach in a straight line - which results in zero transversal to a stationary target and increased signature radius. Need I say more? And then of course there's smartbombs. A single T2 smartbomb can kill most drones in 3-4 pulses, last time I checked.

There's very good reason why drone boats are just not being used often, or at all. And giving drone boats a module that is WORSE than its turret/missile counterpart is not going to change that status quo.

And another fun drone fact? There are still no implants to improve drone damage. Yep, implants for turrets/missiles were added in 2008, I believe. So, 4 years and counting of being treated as a red-headed step-child. And the only rig that increases damage only affects sentries.

No other bs does 1200 dps at 65km so it would be fair.

About the tank: if you used sentries+sentry rigs now you can switch the rigs for tank/cap rigs and use the EDA in the lows, with similiar performance (at least in certain setups/ships)

I'd still like to see them on the high slots but it seems like it's not gonna happen.

Don't increase drone damage any further - it will severely tilt hybrid drone/gunships off balance due to ridiculous amounts of DPS. As is with 15%, a shield rail dominix is already pushing 1300-ish DPS to 50km.

Alternatively, make drone damage mods stacking penalized with other damage mods.

damage mods are LOW SLOT ITEMS

A dev said it's low slot; this means it is low slot for now and forever, stop discussing it, abandon all hope of being listened to

Regarding the requests for the Rattlesnake, I'll admit I forgot to run the numbers on her.. Kind of shows where the rattler is for PVP combat eh?

The rattlesnake actually loves EDA. Of every drone ship I've looked at so far, it has a massive, unadulterated lust for them. CN Torps from T2 launchers only do 273 dps off the rattlesnake, while Ogre IIs start off at 475. Even with roughly double the scaling power on BCU, the low initial damage numbers from the torps simply can't be made up compared to the high (comparatively) starting damage numbers of Large Drones. Plus it has a ton of lowslots and relatively few good ways to spend them after BCUs.

Just eyeballing the numbers, it looks like 2x BCU, 2x EDA on the Scorpion would be the optimal setup. If you want 5 damage mods, its almost a dead heat in which adds more. Third EDA adds more with Ogre IIs out, Third BCU adds more with any other drone out. So if you want 5x Damage mod Scorp, its really up to personal preference.

Agreed.

CCP needs to take a look at Gallente tutorial, specifically the part that calls drones a Gallente racial weapon, comparable to Minmatar Projectiles and Amarr Lasers. And then they need to start treading drones accordingly - as a full fledged weapons system, not a red-headed step-child support system. The whole reason I spent the majority of my training time in drones is because I bought that line hook, line and sinker. And so far, it's just not comparable to missile or turret boats, not even close.

I was really hoping drones in general and drone boats in particular would get some serious review, but so far it looks lackluster at best.

I updated the modules slightly, it should be out on Sisi no later than Monday.

I reduced the CPU slightly (to 30 and 35 for t1 and t2 respectively)

I increased the damage bonus to 12% and 15% for t1 and t2 respectively.

Unfortunately, due to how drones work in the backend, I can't affect their RoF. But we should be able to tweak the other numbers to make the module on par with the damage amplifiers for other weapon types.

I updated the modules slightly, it should be out on Sisi no later than Monday.

I reduced the CPU slightly (to 30 and 35 for t1 and t2 respectively)

I increased the damage bonus to 12% and 15% for t1 and t2 respectively.

Unfortunately, due to how drones work in the backend, I can't affect their RoF. But we should be able to tweak the other numbers to make the module on par with the damage amplifiers for other weapon types.

I will put a second on this. I commonly fit so there are empty high slots while lows (tank) and mids (cap/ewar) are filled. It would be easy to give up a turret as a damage contributor in exchange for the drones applying the damage instead.

remember drones boats are a ship that can be versitle changing drones etc. Drones should be a little bit weaker than other types of fire power.

remember drones boats are a ship that can be versitle changing drones etc. Drones should be a little bit weaker than other types of fire power.

If you're going to do it, do it all the way. Do not implement half a band-aid and call it fixed, the band-aid will simply fall off.

More importantly, if you are cautious of adding a 22.9% drone damage modifier, mix in another bonus. 10% drone speed for instance.

This will cause drones to be more reliable and, thus, increase their damage.

On the plus side, the EFT warriors wouldn't complain, because the raw DPS doesn't change. Herpaderp.

A drone speed bonus would make some sense, especially for drone boats which use heavy/sentry drones. Probably the biggest disadvantage of heavy drones is their travel time. Boosting their MWD speed would help drones in general, and heavy drones in particular apply damage to the target faster, boosting their real dps quite a bit, especially if drone speed boosts are not stacking penalized. That may make it harder for frigates to kite drones deployed by drone boats, however.

CCP isn't going to add a minor speed bump to the EDA. First, its worthless for sentry drones. Second, its worthless for most every other type of drone as well. Drone Navigation Comps are +25/+30% mods, and they are still too weak for most any ship to consider shoving them into their medslots. Tacking on some lame +10% speed mod doesn't make the EDA any more attractive than it would be with only the damage mod itself.

IF CCP attaches a secondary affect, its almost assuredly going to be +HP. This mirrors the ship hull bonus (+damage/+HP = one bonus), and is not repeated by any other present module, which makes it a more attractive space to expand into from a game-design point of view.

All that said, the EDA still needs a higher damage modifier for it to be an attractive module. A minor secondary effect on it - of any type - will not change this. You will first and foremost fit EDA's to your ship for damage, and any little extra gain is just gravy. If the mod's damage bump is too low, you sure as hell aren't going to fit it for a whole whopping 15% drone HP either.

The suggestion was to find an alternative bonus to improve drone reliability.

But for the sake of argument, a drone speed bonus would mean:
Drones take less damage
Drones spend less time traveling to a target
Drones can more easily chase a target (IE Berserkers MWD at ~1500 m/s). Most hacs can outrun this. Two EDA's would improve serkers speed to ~1800. Suddenly, only a handful of nanohacs are faster than serkers. Now your serkers are hitting a target that they would have never touched.

Such a change, I would consider to be a visible damage increase. As well as an optimal range bonus or, to a lesser extent, a drone bay m3 increase.

None of this addresses the point that if the damage mod is too low, nobody will take it. If drone speed really offered all these amazing feats people would take the much stronger drone navigation computers. In reality, its an extremely niche module that isn't seen on a single standard PVP ship. Its at best a minor upgrade for a PVE ship with literally nothing else to spend the medslots on.

As such, no, it wouldn't help the module at all to tack a small amount of +MWD speed on. Nor would it improve sentry drones, which is kind of a glaring oversight for the universal drone damage mod.

I feel it is worth addressing this drone-speed = DPS argument in detail. Drone speed is NOT a damage upgrade. It is, at best, a Time-to-Target upgrade. Your drones, once there, do no more damage than they would normally. If it takes them 10s to reach the target, and they move 30% faster (2x EDA +15% speed after stacking penalties), then they arrive a whole wopping 3s sooner. Sure that's nice but that isn't more DPS nor is it useful in most engagements.

Trying to justify a +speed mod for drones because they could catch slow HACs is totally missing the point. If the ship launching the drones can't catch the HAC, its totally a moot point how many drones can. It will either warp off, or easily snipe the drones with their low transversal on approach. Either way, the added speed did nothing for you in the fight.

The Damage Mod is the only reason to take the EDA. If it adds other effects that's cool and all, but it will be chosen - or not - based [solely on its contribution to your actual drone damage output.

Love the ideas in this thread.

+1 for making drones and droneboats a viable full-fledged weapon system.

Love the ideas in this thread.

+1 for making drones and droneboats a viable full-fledged weapon system.

None of this addresses the point that if the damage mod is too low, nobody will take it. If drone speed really offered all these amazing feats people would take the much stronger drone navigation computers. In reality, its an extremely niche module that isn't seen on a single standard PVP ship. Its at best a minor upgrade for a PVE ship with literally nothing else to spend the medslots on.

As such, no, it wouldn't help the module at all to tack a small amount of +MWD speed on. Nor would it improve sentry drones, which is kind of a glaring oversight for the universal drone damage mod.

I feel it is worth addressing this drone-speed = DPS argument in detail. Drone speed is NOT a damage upgrade. It is, at best, a Time-to-Target upgrade. Your drones, once there, do no more damage than they would normally. If it takes them 10s to reach the target, and they move 30% faster (2x EDA +15% speed after stacking penalties), then they arrive a whole wopping 3s sooner. Sure that's nice but that isn't more DPS nor is it useful in most engagements.

Trying to justify a +speed mod for drones because they could catch slow HACs is totally missing the point. If the ship launching the drones can't catch the HAC, its totally a moot point how many drones can. It will either warp off, or easily snipe the drones with their low transversal on approach. Either way, the added speed did nothing for you in the fight.

The Damage Mod is the only reason to take the EDA. If it adds other effects that's cool and all, but it will be chosen - or not - based [solely on its contribution to your actual drone damage output.

I updated the modules slightly, it should be out on Sisi no later than Monday.

I reduced the CPU slightly (to 30 and 35 for t1 and t2 respectively)

I increased the damage bonus to 12% and 15% for t1 and t2 respectively.

Unfortunately, due to how drones work in the backend, I can't affect their RoF. But we should be able to tweak the other numbers to make the module on par with the damage amplifiers for other weapon types.

Look, I'm a "new" player, with my current main just reaching 10 million SP now,. Out of that, 5 million is in drone skills.

PLEASE PLEASE, don't waste your work!
Do you want someone will use this mod?

Make it HIGH SLOT!

One less cannon and some decent DPS increase on our pets.

Trust us, dont' make it wwwwwrong.

My 2 cents, TT

Why not just get rid of the bays on most other ships. Why does every single ship get a drone bay these days? I say stick to the entire gal federation as it is their niche, and racial drone boats, I.e. Arbitrator hull.

Battleships and Battlecruisers have drone bays to field light drones as a defense against frigates.

Maybe perhaps it would make them overpowered,.

Battleships and Battlecruisers have drone bays to field light drones as a defense against frigates.

JEBUS CRIPES, just shut up about the module being a low slot. CCP has put the hammer down, and it is a low slot module, PERIOD, FULL STOP, END OF DISSCUSSION

It ain't gonna be a hgh slot mod.

They said so and they even gave a reason.

This isn't the final balance for drones, this just a start.

It's a low slot damage mod. It is not going to be the last thing that drones get.

Expect Drone Control Units to be coming to a subcap near you.

I really think it needs a second bonus to be worthwhile. MWD Speed, tracking or durability I think would be best. A simple damage boost is not as useful if the drones can't apply it properly, or it gets killed.

Honestly, I'd favor 20 or 30% MWD speed. At the very least it would allow you to apply dps quicker and recover your drones more in an emergency GTFO situation. No one else has to deal with: 'Oh crap I left my guns behind' in pvp. I rarely use Ogres in PVP anymore because they are simply too slow.

[Dominix, Mother Drone]

Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Extrinsic Damage Amplifier II
Extrinsic Damage Amplifier II
Extrinsic Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
100MN Afterburner II

Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Speed Augmentor II
Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Ogre II x10
Hobgoblin II x10


That would be awesome...

It's interesting to see that even with a ship bonus to drone damage on the curse that it's still better to put ballistic controls on instead of extrinsics. The only ship that may get use out of an extrinsic in it's current state is the ishtar just because it has only 3 turrets.

I believe the slow buf from CCP is related to a few very distinct issue, First the range of variance in damage from the most dangerous drone users to the weakest is significantly larger than the most dangerous gun user, this means the module will have a a disproportionate effect on the applied DPS of the "big" users vs the supplemental users.

Second as far as I know the big drone users ships are considered solid choices, the DOMI, Ishtar and Gila (vexor and arbitor varients may fall here as well). This where s real problem lies if you buff a slightly unpowered ship to much you get FOTM if you overbuff a already balanced ship it becomes the most OP thing ever, the boards fill with tears.

The last issue is a caariers, CCP just nerfed super caps to get them out of the subcap murdering business, last thing we all need is more carriers are overpowered nonsence, like someone above said 2200+ DPS Thantos may be a little over the top for pvp and PVE

I believe the slow buf from CCP is related to a few very distinct issue, First the range of variance in damage from the most dangerous drone users to the weakest is significantly larger than the most dangerous gun user, this means the module will have a a disproportionate effect on the applied DPS of the "big" users vs the supplemental users.

Second as far as I know the big drone users ships are considered solid choices, the DOMI, Ishtar and Gila (vexor and arbitor varients may fall here as well). This where s real problem lies if you buff a slightly unpowered ship to much you get FOTM if you overbuff a already balanced ship it becomes the most OP thing ever, the boards fill with tears.

The last issue is a caariers, CCP just nerfed super caps to get them out of the subcap murdering business, last thing we all need is more carriers are overpowered nonsence, like someone above said 2200+ DPS Thantos may be a little over the top for pvp and PVE

Um 13-15 sentry drones/ heavy Drones, not 10. So the base damage with one tech II sentry drone rig gets closer to 1k. Set the modifier at 23% like some above were asking for ... then 6 months later add a faction version doing + 28%. Stuff 2-3 (not sure of stack with sentry rigs) of these on and the ship and boom we have 1500+ DPS (sorry about the 2200 number I took it from a post higher up the thread without verifying).

It is not about the standard ship, it is what happens at the extremes and can we have something that suddely disbalances. Yeah anything but the occasional Drone control units are now considered taboo, but when the answer is 1500 DPS with solid range, good tracking that can be switched out for lower but very effective anti -frig or anti cruiser DPS (with 3 extrins at 23% we more than a 50% damage buff) , with a massive tank (even after gimping for the Drone pimping), for the price of a slightly pimped faction BS, you know someone is going to do it. And then more people are going to do it.

You also dismissed my point without addressing the stronger argument in point 2 that the Domi, Gila are considered good and the Ishtar is considered at least adequate in PVE/solo small group PVP and we are in effect buffing all of them. Don't forget it does not take much to go from slightly unerpowered to to FOTM, look how small the buff were to angel ships insolation a while ago they went from basic unflown to the king of the hill.

I am not saying the modules values are set properly for the damage bonuses they may be to low at 12%, we need to see what happens at the extremes as well as the net effect of difficult to fit and minor bump to DPS the Curse gets over a BCS for its two missles, the beauty of Eve is also its biggest problem, flexibility. The issues often arise when someone uses a new rules, module, ship or ammo in an unexpected way. I am pretty sure that at least a few of the people screaming for "moar buffs" have already figured it out and are prepping to abuse it until it is nerfed.

Um 13-15 sentry drones/ heavy Drones, not 10. So the base damage with one tech II sentry drone rig gets closer to 1k. Set the modifier at 23% like some above were asking for ... then 6 months later add a faction version doing + 28%. Stuff 2-3 (not sure of stack with sentry rigs) of these on and the ship and boom we have 1500+ DPS (sorry about the 2200 number I took it from a post higher up the thread without verifying).

It is not about the standard ship, it is what happens at the extremes and can we have something that suddely disbalances. Yeah anything but the occasional Drone control units are now considered taboo, but when the answer is 1500 DPS with solid range, good tracking that can be switched out for lower but very effective anti -frig or anti cruiser DPS (with 3 extrins at 23% we more than a 50% damage buff) , with a massive tank (even after gimping for the Drone pimping), for the price of a slightly pimped faction BS, you know someone is going to do it. And then more people are going to do it.

You also dismissed my point without addressing the stronger argument in point 2 that the Domi, Gila are considered good and the Ishtar is considered at least adequate in PVE/solo small group PVP and we are in effect buffing all of them. Don't forget it does not take much to go from slightly unerpowered to to FOTM, look how small the buff were to angel ships insolation a while ago they went from basic unflown to the king of the hill.

I am not saying the modules values are set properly for the damage bonuses they may be to low at 12%, we need to see what happens at the extremes as well as the net effect of difficult to fit and minor bump to DPS the Curse gets over a BCS for its two missles, the beauty of Eve is also its biggest problem, flexibility. The issues often arise when someone uses a new rules, module, ship or ammo in an unexpected way. I am pretty sure that at least a few of the people screaming for "moar buffs" have already figured it out and are prepping to abuse it until it is nerfed.

If you aren't aware, blaster megas are terrible.

If you aren't aware, blaster megas are terrible.

my ishkur screams mid slot please .... also 35CPU if possible and a bit more damage

[Dominix, Mother Drone]

Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Extrinsic Damage Amplifier II
Extrinsic Damage Amplifier II
Extrinsic Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
100MN Afterburner II

Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Speed Augmentor II
Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Ogre II x10
Hobgoblin II x10


That would be awesome...

You know that wouldn't work unless DCUs gave +25 drone bandwidth each or something, right?

Eh, my domi has most of it's mid slots filled with cap rechargers, as well as his rigs, dual large armor reps are costly

The Myrmidon should get a 100 mb bandwidth, having only 75mb makes is a joke. Its dps is barely much better than a vexor.

Morons completely forget that Drones are destroyable. If DPS of drones is the problem, then shoot the drones.

Gameplay should not be balanced based on the lowest possible ******** dumbass.

You know that that's just the dronebay config right ? 2 waves of Ogres and 2 waves of Hammers ...

It is not even remotely close to that simple. If the droneboat pilot is competent he will be pulling in drones that take damage. It's pretty damn hard to kill drones in that situation. The ability to drop smaller-sized drones on ships that would otherwise avoid your primary damage is an incredible boost.

Also, droneships don't lose their primary damage when jammed. They can't be tracking-disrupted (after Inferno, drones will be the only weapon system effectively immune to TDs).

...And droneships still have guns. Even bonused guns in most cases. The Domi already dumps out good DPS with blasters.

It is not even remotely close to that simple. If the droneboat pilot is competent he will be pulling in drones that take damage. It's pretty damn hard to kill drones in that situation. The ability to drop smaller-sized drones on ships that would otherwise avoid your primary damage is an incredible boost.

Also, droneships don't lose their primary damage when jammed. They can't be tracking-disrupted (after Inferno, drones will be the only weapon system effectively immune to TDs).

...And droneships still have guns. Even bonused guns in most cases. The Domi already dumps out good DPS with blasters.

...And droneships still have guns. Even bonused guns in most cases. The Domi already dumps out good DPS with blasters.

Well I for one am pleased with this. I want it most because I fly a pilgrim regularly. And no, heat sinks and lasors would not be better. PVP pilgrim fits neuts/nos. PVE pilgrim I use for scanning and running profession sites. Does everything in one. Probes, cloak, salvager, codebreaker, analyzer, tank, and damage.

This module is a godsend.

Well I for one am pleased with this. I want it most because I fly a pilgrim regularly. And no, heat sinks and lasors would not be better. PVP pilgrim fits neuts/nos. PVE pilgrim I use for scanning and running profession sites. Does everything in one. Probes, cloak, salvager, codebreaker, analyzer, tank, and damage.

This module is a godsend.

Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.

Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km.

Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.

Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km.

not gimping the rattle? well that depends if you are running active or passive tanking ( I must admit I am a little overtanked on the passive part, 6x power shield relay II + 2x Large shield extender II + 1x shield recharger II + 3x large core defense field purger II = gives me 434 hps peak recharge )

2 waves of Ogres and 2 waves of Hobgoblins, actually. But if he wasn't planning on being able to use all 10 Ogres at once then why even bother with 5 DCU's? Being able to use 10 lights at once isn't a good enough reason to use 5 high slots on those.

I don't think you really need to be able to tank 3.5k dps, with 3 dmg mods you can still tank 1400 which is still more than enough to snooze through missions :z

You know that drones do the same dps between 0 and [max-drone-controle-range] right ?

Also remember that even with mods and rigs, drones (especially heavies) are still significantly slower than missiles

They are supposed to gimp your tank, you trade tank for gank, or gank for mobility/range(guns) if you shield tank

Slightly underpowered? Drone dps is the lowest of the damage types by a blatant margin. On top of that, you yourself misstated 2200 for 1500. You didn't even bring up what happens if you fit a carrier like that. If you stuck 4 drone control units on a carrier with 2 drone damage mods, you SHOULD have 1500 dps with the shortest range/highest damage sentry available. The investments required gimp the tank, neuts, and remote repair possibilities of the carrier in question. Supers were/are overpowered because they gave/give too much overall stats to one specific player regardless of their cost. A carrier does not possess these specifics.

You are afraid of a domi putting on 3 drone damage mods, 3 mag stabs, a full rack of short range blasters, and ogres/gardes? You do know the CPU required to fit that? You actually can't fit a proper tank. On top of that, you are about as effective as a blaster mega. If you aren't aware, blaster megas are terrible.

Your arguments are laden with fear, inaccurate numbers, gross generalizations, and can be described as an absurdity.

Unless you cough up 3 mid slots for a few DNC II's. Then you have crackwarriors that go 12 km/s, which is fast enough to mess up the drone AI and make it unable to figure out when to shut off the MWD, thereby leaving it unable to hit your target or return to your drone bay and with a huge sig radius. Useful!!111

GǪbin this module, give the drone boats a hard-wired bonus to fitting Drone Control Units and add bandwidth per DCU.

You know that drones do the same dps between 0 and [max-drone-controle-range] right ? A bit like missiles, but target speed don't reduce the dps (and for heavy drones speed, there is some interesting modules to adress it).

I'm not against more drone damage, but you should be careful with this ; though 12% for T2 and 40Tf is very careful I think, but even then I would take it.

For the EDA I do have a vested interest in this module being High Slot. Time to speak up now, if you feel the same way.

No, leave it low slot, add subcap DCU's.

speaks the thruth

First, I may have been misunderstood because of my english speaking skill at only 2 or 3 : 12% may be a bit too low.

Though there is some inconsistancies here : some says that a drone boat (a domi) is often fitted with no gun, only for utilities, and then have its low slot for tank only. Even with 10% damage bonus, you can have a farely good tank, a whole rack of utilities (neut ?), your mids, and 550 dps (quick and dirty calculation) : that is trading a super tank to a standard BS tank for decent dps on neuting ship (550 is equal or better than HAC dps).

About the DNC : of course using 4 DNC to launch warriors is silly, but what if you used heavy drones with these instead ? With only one DNC, BS don't outrun Ogre anymore ; with three of them, Wasp go over 3000m/s ; you don't really need warriors then, and if you are affraid of frigates, fit small guns...

I'm not saying 12% is too much or even enough, I'm just saying you should be careful with balancing things. Of course, considering the *current* state, and the *current* fitting state of art, even 15% is barely enough, but can you say you considered everything that *can* be done with this ?

Drone boat are already useful in current balance state ; giving them a 22% drone damage module *may* become very nasty, or not ; can you prove it's harmless ?

Yes, yes, yes

Long awaited drone Proteus buff inbound

575 dps Ogres + 225 blasters with no fitting issues and good tanking capability. Add one omni and navcom and your drones have solid tracking and speed ( Ogres - 1700m/s ). Sentry Proteus may also become viable after this.

Let's just hope that drone users will be getting some more love from now on.

If only it could be a high slot module... even at the price of a turret slot, then it would be usable. Sparing a low-slot on gallente drone boats (Gallente are supposed to be the best drones users, aren't they ?), is pretty hard, not to say almost impossible on some ships if you wan't to keep a decent tank =(

And drone DPS are caped pretty low in comparison with the other weapons systems, and won't really be a main weapon system unless they can rival with the others. So, symetry being uneeded, I rally don't see why it couldn't be a high slot mod !

At no point was there talk of buffing the Proteus' drone bandwidth, bay, or abilities.

Because the only way of buffing something is through direct modification of it's stats

Main problem of drone Proteus in it's current state :: damage source proportions.
As a drone boat it had about 45/55 ( favouring blasters ) and now it has around 72/28 ( favouring drones ). It even gets ~50 bonus dps.

Drone boat are already useful in current balance state

None of which allow it to fit or field a full flight of heavy/sentry drones, which is what he had mentioned.