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Is this an EULA violation or valid scam?

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Avan Sercedos Black Sheep United	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:05:00 - [301] how does sniper form? how page 11 get sniped?
Lord Windu Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:05:00 - [302] Edited by: Lord Windu on 14/05/2009 02:06:14 Thanks lana, Page 11 snipa is better than page 10 snipa to be honest edit: Avan Sercedos is pretty gay ☺ A Kirra Liu Presentation. Will give cyber for GTC ☺
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:08:00 - [303] Originally by: Lord Windu Edited by: Lord Windu on 14/05/2009 02:06:14 Thanks lana, Page 11 snipa is better than page 10 snipa to be honest edit: Avan Sercedos is pretty gay Lol
Avan Sercedos Black Sheep United	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:08:00 - [304] Originally by: Lord Windu Avan Sercedos is pretty gay Only for you
Lord Windu Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:10:00 - [305] Originally by: Avan Sercedos Originally by: Lord Windu Avan Sercedos is pretty gay Only for you ☺ A Kirra Liu Presentation. Will give cyber for GTC ☺
Avan Sercedos Black Sheep United	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:12:00 - [306] Originally by: Lord Windu This was me when I dropped the soap And then I was like Is this how you properly fakequote?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:12:00 - [307] Originally by: Lord Windu Originally by: Avan Sercedos Originally by: Lord Windu Avan Sercedos is pretty gay Only for you New forum marriage?
Lord Windu Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:14:00 - [308] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Lord Windu Originally by: Avan Sercedos Originally by: Lord Windu Avan Sercedos is pretty gay Only for you New forum marriage? Nah, it's just for the sex. I'm saving marriage for someone special. ☺ A Kirra Liu Presentation. Will give cyber for GTC ☺
Master Chaz	Posted - 2009.05.14 13:02:00 - [309] once again i think your gonna get the ban-bat p.s lana i love you .............. regards chaz.. ( your fourm stalker)...
Everybruce	Posted - 2009.05.14 14:53:00 - [310] im back, still awaiting confirmation - still have money.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.05.15 00:11:00 - [311] This made it to the second page? The GMs must be really having a pow wow over this one. While some GMs have made it clear that character scams are not acceptable, you don't see that harsh of language in the character transfer forums. So it would be a bit harsh to ban Everybruce when there is no clear posting in the character transfer rule thread that character scams are a bannable offense. The closest thing I can see is the last line which reads, "Agreements on the forums or in game, or winning an auction does not guarantee a character will be transferred to you. The seller may choose to renege on a deal at any time, prior to the transaction being completed." Since the transaction seems to have been completed, it seems that the character needs to be transfered.
PhantomVoice GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:53:00 - [312] I think that Everybruce should get to keep the ISK. Some r.e.t.a.r.d.s in this thread need to take a look again and realise that selling assets with or part of a character trade is not allowed; the character trade rule's thread clearly states, "You are buying/selling the character ONLY and nothing else", emphasis on ONLY by CCP themself. Everybruce you did try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes from the get-go by stating there were no forum posts etc. I guess in the hope to get an opinion from C&P in your favour. I don't see the point in that, as your never going to get an answer to the question you wanted to ask. I hope you werent as sly with your petition from the start and CCP's decision hasnt been swayed by your inability to be entirely honest. I genuinely believe you worked the system well & kudos to you for trying something that is evidently, a controversial subject. I also think that neither party followed the rules of the character bazaar properly, otherwise this would never have happened. As has been stated previously, CCP almost guarantee the safety of these transfers because there is a large element of trust that has to be placed between buyer & seller for the transfer to take place. CCP can only be expected to guarantee/uphold your transaction if you follow it to the letter of the law. If you dont, then its your own fault. That's not to say the seller is entirely innocent however, CCP may punish both not to set a bad precident.
Ed Gein Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.15 09:55:00 - [313] Edited by: Ed Gein on 15/05/2009 09:56:47 Thanks for that last post, have added it to my petition... still awaiting some sort of answer. It's now been escalated to senior GMs who are going to decide on it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight? The Winner.
Future Mutant	Posted - 2009.05.15 12:24:00 - [314] Originally by: PhantomVoice I think that Everybruce should get to keep the ISK. Some r.e.t.a.r.d.s in this thread need to take a look again and realise that selling assets with or part of a character trade is not allowed; the character trade rule's thread clearly states, "You are buying/selling the character ONLY and nothing else", emphasis on ONLY by CCP themself. Everybruce you did try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes from the get-go by stating there were no forum posts etc. I guess in the hope to get an opinion from C&P in your favour. I don't see the point in that, as your never going to get an answer to the question you wanted to ask. I hope you werent as sly with your petition from the start and CCP's decision hasnt been swayed by your inability to be entirely honest. I genuinely believe you worked the system well & kudos to you for trying something that is evidently, a controversial subject. I also think that neither party followed the rules of the character bazaar properly, otherwise this would never have happened. As has been stated previously, CCP almost guarantee the safety of these transfers because there is a large element of trust that has to be placed between buyer & seller for the transfer to take place. CCP can only be expected to guarantee/uphold your transaction if you follow it to the letter of the law. If you dont, then its your own fault. That's not to say the seller is entirely innocent however, CCP may punish both not to set a bad precident. Dear god i agree with a goon...well mostly anyway Both blatantly broke rules clearly spelled out for a character transfer- so both should get the ban hammer. TBH in some scenarios i say bruce keeps the isk- but i think hes being less then truthful and that this actually started as a legit character transfer.
Misanth The Glenn Quagmire Finishing School for Young Ladies Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.05.15 12:28:00 - [315] Ban them both and put the isk into a lottery. Or just give it to me, tbh. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
denwo togu	Posted - 2009.05.15 12:35:00 - [316] Originally by: PhantomVoice I think that Everybruce should get to keep the ISK. Some r.e.t.a.r.d.s in this thread need to take a look again and realise that selling assets with or part of a character trade is not allowed; the character trade rule's thread clearly states, "You are buying/selling the character ONLY and nothing else", emphasis on ONLY by CCP themself. Everybruce you did try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes from the get-go by stating there were no forum posts etc. I guess in the hope to get an opinion from C&P in your favour. I don't see the point in that, as your never going to get an answer to the question you wanted to ask. I hope you werent as sly with your petition from the start and CCP's decision hasnt been swayed by your inability to be entirely honest. I genuinely believe you worked the system well & kudos to you for trying something that is evidently, a controversial subject. I also think that neither party followed the rules of the character bazaar properly, otherwise this would never have happened. As has been stated previously, CCP almost guarantee the safety of these transfers because there is a large element of trust that has to be placed between buyer & seller for the transfer to take place. CCP can only be expected to guarantee/uphold your transaction if you follow it to the letter of the law. If you dont, then its your own fault. That's not to say the seller is entirely innocent however, CCP may punish both not to set a bad precident. This is exactly what I have been saying. You are buying the char and nothing else means just that. The buyer chose to try and buy the something else, voiding his ability to ask ccp for help after the fact. Was he scammed into it? Sure. Should he have accepted the contract? No way. But it was his choice, he screwed up. The only way ccp can get this right imo is to punish both with a semi ban, and let everybruce keep the isk.
Kaptain Klo	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:24:00 - [317] Edited by: Kaptain Klo on 15/05/2009 17:26:17 We can all go home for the weekend. No response from CCP today mean's we're waiting till monday =S. Hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it. Stock your marshmellows. P.S. Don't the above posters know that we're beyond the issue itself? All points have been presented, you're just proving a lack of reading comprehension throughout the rest of the thread. Or you're just friends of Ed Gein (Who is also a member of a goon corp, ironically enough).
denwo togu	Posted - 2009.05.15 19:16:00 - [318] Originally by: Kaptain Klo Edited by: Kaptain Klo on 15/05/2009 17:26:17 Don't the above posters know that we're beyond the issue itself? All points have been presented, you're just proving a lack of reading comprehension throughout the rest of the thread. Or you're just friends of Ed Gein (Who is also a member of a goon corp, ironically enough). You wouldnt be spouting if we agreed with you. And it's Marshmallows
Amond Starsmoke	Posted - 2009.05.15 20:01:00 - [319] Why discriminate? they should just ban everyone in this thread... err wait. /points at that guy /runs
The Longinus	Posted - 2009.05.15 23:02:00 - [320] Ban both of them. * The scammer for abusing the char-trading buisness, and violating the char-trading rules. * The buyer for naively putting 17b on the line in a contract that clearly goes against the char-trading rules. And reposes the ISK and use it to set up a clinic for the victims of scams. ... which would mostly school their patients on basics of common-sense and the ability to differentiate between dots and commas.
Barakkus	Posted - 2009.05.15 23:15:00 - [321] Originally by: The Longinus Ban both of them. * The scammer for abusing the char-trading buisness, and violating the char-trading rules. * The buyer for naively putting 17b on the line in a contract that clearly goes against the char-trading rules. And reposes the ISK and use it to set up a clinic for the victims of scams. ... which would mostly school their patients on basics of common-sense and the ability to differentiate between dots and commas. Why would you waste such good isk on people who will just lose it during their learning period in schooling? Just give it to me, I'm much more worthy of 17b isk, I promise to give everyone in lowsec shiny expensive toys to shoot at with that money...then everyone wins...I learn to pvp, they get phat lewts...win-win situation all around...
MiSu Yung	Posted - 2009.05.16 00:14:00 - [322] I like it alot
Ed Gein Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.16 11:39:00 - [323] Had an answer from a senior GM - basically he said that they consider this a scam but Kaptain Klo broke the rules, and he did not say what they have decided and what they are going to do. --------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight? The Winner.
Amond Starsmoke	Posted - 2009.05.16 17:59:00 - [324] Originally by: Ed Gein Had an answer from a senior GM - basically he said that they consider this a scam but Kaptain Klo broke the rules, and he did not say what they have decided and what they are going to do. What do you mean by scam here? I am reading it as they have ruled it a violation of the EULA. Is this correct?
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.05.16 18:21:00 - [325] Originally by: Amond Starsmoke Originally by: Ed Gein Had an answer from a senior GM - basically he said that they consider this a scam but Kaptain Klo broke the rules, and he did not say what they have decided and what they are going to do. What do you mean by scam here? I am reading it as they have ruled it a violation of the EULA. Is this correct? I don't think so. "Scams" are legitimate forms of PVP. It looks to me that since Klo didn't follow the rules of character transfer, he is not free from liability. If he wanted the character, he should have stuck to the rules and done a straight isk donation for the character, and keep teh ship contract seperate. They warn that ship transfers are easily taken care of by contract, and to keep that seperate from the character transfer transaction. Here we have a mixing. Both parties posted by on the Char transfer forums, so IMO I would say they would have to abide by the rules or suffer the consequences. Its a fine line though. Obviously there was isk transfered with an agreement to transfer a character.
Everybruce	Posted - 2009.05.16 18:24:00 - [326] Originally by: G0ggalor Obviously there was isk transfered with an agreement to transfer a character. absolutely not, there was no such agreement and there is no evidence to support that.
Amond Starsmoke	Posted - 2009.05.16 20:32:00 - [327] Originally by: g0ggalor Originally by: Amond Starsmoke Originally by: Ed Gein Had an answer from a senior GM - basically he said that they consider this a scam but Kaptain Klo broke the rules, and he did not say what they have decided and what they are going to do. What do you mean by scam here? I am reading it as they have ruled it a violation of the EULA. Is this correct? I don't think so. "Scams" are legitimate forms of PVP. It looks to me that since Klo didn't follow the rules of character transfer, he is not free from liability. If he wanted the character, he should have stuck to the rules and done a straight isk donation for the character, and keep teh ship contract seperate. They warn that ship transfers are easily taken care of by contract, and to keep that seperate from the character transfer transaction. Here we have a mixing. Both parties posted by on the Char transfer forums, so IMO I would say they would have to abide by the rules or suffer the consequences. Its a fine line though. Obviously there was isk transfered with an agreement to transfer a character. Yeah, I'm aware scamming is a part of the game. Its just the way he worded his statement could be interpreted in a couple different ways. Its either hes implying it was considered a character trade scam, though Kaptain Klo is also in violation of character trade rules as well which fuddles things a bit. Alternatively, hes not implying anything, it was considered a plain old scam, and poor Kaptain Klo may be the only one in trouble because he would be the only one violating any character trade rules. In other words, the second alternative would be huge pwnage against Klo. The first alternative sounds like it would be moderately favorable for Klo. This case is really interesting to me...
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.16 21:07:00 - [328] Originally by: Everybruce Originally by: G0ggalor Obviously there was isk transfered with an agreement to transfer a character. absolutely not, there was no such agreement and there is no evidence to support that. Bull****. You've already admitted earlier the isk was for a character AND ship. If you lied to the devs as much as you've lied on this thread you don't deserve to keep the isk, just based on the all the BS you've spewed so far.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.05.16 21:16:00 - [329] Originally by: Everybruce Originally by: G0ggalor Obviously there was isk transfered with an agreement to transfer a character. absolutely not, there was no such agreement and there is no evidence to support that. This is bull **** and you know it. You posted a thread in the Char Transfer forum. He posted to buy the char. In game the two of you agreed to put a ship into the mix. You set up contract for the ship, which Kloey assumed was payment for ship and char. You accepted payment, but did not transfer the char. The only think working in your favor is that there are warnings in the char trans forum to only have transactions for char + isk and to keep assets out of it.
CrimsonLobo Caldari Galaxy Punks	Posted - 2009.05.16 22:06:00 - [330] Hows it going guys?

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