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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sjobba
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Posted - 2009.05.04 08:31:00 -
[31]
I vote for the scammer getting pertinently stuck in Jita 4-4, his local chat window permanently pinned open, and his ability to block, write and create contracts removed.
... o, and he made to stay online, actively spinning his ship, for at least 4 hours a day, or his whole account be permanently banned!
But realistically, this doesn't strike me as a bannable offense.
Unless there was actual account info shared, which is strictly prohibited by the EULA.
Although... technically, he was bartering with real-life items (the char) outside CCP's official mechanism for such a trade. (Tho, I'm not 100% up to speed on how said mechanism works)
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Galston
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Posted - 2009.05.04 10:34:00 -
[32]
It's a EULA violation, if you get caught by a GM(and by posting this thread you're definitely going to be) you'll lose the isk and your account.
Hopefully the GM you petitioned will just let you give back the isk, but yeah, this sort of scam is definitely not allowed. |
Everybruce
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Posted - 2009.05.04 10:38:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Galston
It's a EULA violation, if you get caught by a GM(and by posting this thread you're definitely going to be) you'll lose the isk and your account.
Hopefully the GM you petitioned will just let you give back the isk, but yeah, this sort of scam is definitely not allowed.
Where does it say this?
I was thinking as he asked for the sleipnir for 500m in a contract, and accepted one for an added 17 billion it makes an entirely different transaction - the contract in itself being a self contained transaction.
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Lexa Hellfury
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.05.04 10:49:00 -
[34]
Just to throw another kink in this:
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
5. The character being sold must be stripped of ingame assets of any significant value before being transferred. Items cannot be listed among the character's valuable assets, only skills, implants and reputation. You are buying/selling the character ONLY and nothing else. Ships and items can be readily bought on the market for ISK.
IMO, this is just some moron who didn't follow the rules and wound up buying a Sliepnir for 17b.
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Lisa Vinchetta
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Posted - 2009.05.04 10:52:00 -
[35]
I think it's a violation. The whole ship for 17.5B is different but the promise of a character was used as bait.
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.04 11:54:00 -
[36]
well u basicly tried to avoid the rules when selling the char(so thats one rule broken by not following normal char auction rules)
you then broke yet another rule by not transfering the char.
basicly i think and hope you get banned.
the rules clearly state that scams in char sales isnt allowed, and thats what u just did
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Vele Nori
Amarr
Dakinii
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Posted - 2009.05.04 12:14:00 -
[37]
His intent was to purchase a character. He paid money but didn't receive one. Instead he received one overpriced Sleipnir. So the object of scamming here was a char, which is very much so against the EULA. If I were you I'd petition this myself, offer to return ISK back if this is not OK, and hope for a temporary ban.
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Michael Corinthos
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Posted - 2009.05.04 12:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
the rules clearly state that scams in char sales isnt allowed, and thats what u just did
Where is this clearly stated? I linked the rules thread from the character bazaar and it doesn't say that. Post a link to these alternative rules, sir.
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Asmodean Reborn
Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2009.05.04 12:36:00 -
[39]
If you're going to get banned for a char sale outside of the CCP sanctioned forum/website mechanics then he should also.
Morally, it's a little unfair as the game can impact on the guy in RL and 17bil is like... $500 or something?
Ingame, it was no different to any other scam such as... 'Amarr Navy EANM' for 25mil when all that is for sale is 'EANM'. IMO you just had a successful scam. Not an EULA violation.
ú |
dr doooo
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Posted - 2009.05.04 13:02:00 -
[40]
Edited by: dr doooo on 04/05/2009 13:03:35
Originally by: Michael Corinthos
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
the rules clearly state that scams in char sales isnt allowed, and thats what u just did
Where is this clearly stated? I linked the rules thread from the character bazaar and it doesn't say that. Post a link to these alternative rules, sir.
I don't think this one will get to fly, and I don't think it will matter whether the rules clearly state it's not allowed. If it isn't clearly stated anywhere, ccp will just say it is covered under one of the general 'catch all' rules.
Everyone knows character sale scams are not allowed, and I don't think that your argument, that technically this isn't one, will be good enough. Like using similar character names to scam, once you use a 'character sale' as part of a scam, any other 'technicalities' that follow will be irrelevant IMO.
If they allow this, pretty soon they will have a whole heap of similar petitions from very angry victims who thought character sales were scamproof, and they will probably leave the game after such a big loss if not reimbursed.
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Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.05.04 15:20:00 -
[41]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1050855
:)
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Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.04 15:26:00 -
[42]
This smells stinky.
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.04 15:45:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1050855
:)
 someone is so gonna be hit by the ban stick
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Kaptain Klo
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Posted - 2009.05.04 15:48:00 -
[44]
As the victim in this situation, I'll give my take.
Because of the nature of character transfers, trust is required to undertake the transaction. Because trust between internet characters is impossible to prove, particularly when you're talking about a month or two of straight-grinding work, you must rely on the -system- to gaurantee transactions. If the system fails, the market fails.
The difference between this scam, and for example the 1,499,999,999 sales, is to use an old analogy, apples and oranges. I transfered the isk, regardless of the means, based on the promise of character transfer, regardless of the method of isk transfer.
Finally, because of the language barriers inherent in Eve communication, it's difficult to ask the other party to do everything to-the-letter. In this case, while I said to set the contract up for 500m, it was setup for the full 17.5b, which I accepted to minimize complication. Having completed 3 previous character transfers, 1 with someone I could barely communicate with, this situation is by far not the oddest I've run into (except to say the others were truthful and well-intended individuals).
Ironically, if he had set the contract up for 500m, and taken it, he -probably- would have gotten away with it. I was willing to give trust on 500m.
In closing, I'll state my experience with others who have engaged in even un-intentional character transfer fraud. That is to say, they were 1 day late on their transfer, and recieved a considerable ban, and they did not even have the intention of scamming.
It's a shame that we have to go through these loops over something so silly.
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Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.05.04 15:52:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Benedikt Miloslav on 04/05/2009 15:54:30
Eh I've seen quite a few character scams in the recent months and most of the time the scammer wasn't banned. However, none of them admitted it was a scam and it would be fair to assume the person responsible could've ran into a problem and something prevented them from posting or whatever.
The OP, however, admitted it, so I'll just say I'm happy I might witness a character scam that resulted in a ban. And if said ban doesn't happen, having this shown publicly is a punishment in itself, as he'll have a lot of trouble in selling that character, should he decide to do so at a later date.
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Capella
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:28:00 -
[46]
With CCP trying to encourage new players to EvE I am starting to feel that the huge increase in scamming could end up somehow damaging the game. The op admitted to scamming by using a character sale, which should result in a refund for the scammed and a ban imo.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:49:00 -
[47]
promise of a character was used as bait
This sums is up pretty clearly and in my oppinion you really should feel the banstick.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
The Jagged Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Butzewutze
promise of a character was used as bait
This sums is up pretty clearly and in my oppinion you really should feel the banstick.
TBH I doubt he'll be benned, but the isk will most likely be returned. GMs aren't out to ban people just for the hell of it, it's kind of like reimbursement petitions, the manner in which you go about it couple with the mood of the GM will often have as much of an effect on the outcome as the actual content of the petition.
That being said, the OP should probably give the 17.5b back, as it's extremely obvious that what happened here is a character scam, and it's not impossible that he'll get a GM who's pet peeve is character scams, you're told not to post GM chats for a reason  |
Everybruce
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:03:00 -
[49]
there was no promise for a character - throughout our conversation I did not once say that I would transfer him the character, or prior to the accepting of the contract did either of us say that if he accepts the contract he will get the character.
He asked to buy the sleipnir for 500m, again - inferring a separate transaction entirely... would seriously like some clarification on this as it's been nearly 24 hours.. are the GMs on holiday or something?
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Lumine Fusion
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Everybruce
there was no promise for a character - throughout our conversation I did not once say that I would transfer him the character, or prior to the accepting of the contract did either of us say that if he accepts the contract he will get the character.
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:59 ] ME > your offer certainly interests me
So what does this mean then? You fail to include any info about conversations prior to this one but it would seem an offer was made for something. You just neglect to include what it could be in your op.
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Everybruce
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:11:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Lumine Fusion
Originally by: Everybruce
there was no promise for a character - throughout our conversation I did not once say that I would transfer him the character, or prior to the accepting of the contract did either of us say that if he accepts the contract he will get the character.
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:59 ] ME > your offer certainly interests me
So what does this mean then? You fail to include any info about conversations prior to this one but it would seem an offer was made for something. You just neglect to include what it could be in your op.
There were no conversations prior to this, the conversations posted is the *ONLY* contact I have had with this person... no forum posts, or evemails were made to confirm the character sale - and no confirmation was indeed given in the chat either.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:12:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Butzewutze on 04/05/2009 17:14:43
Originally by: Everybruce
there was no promise for a character - throughout our conversation I did not once say that I would transfer him the character, or prior to the accepting of the contract did either of us say that if he accepts the contract he will get the character.
[ 2009.05.03 15:38:36 ] ME > would you want any assets with the character?
[ 2009.05.03 16:02:34 ] ME > if i sell i will have like 25b to spend on a char
[ 2009.05.03 17:40:01 ] ME > character forum says I cant include assets ont he char
[ 2009.05.03 17:40:05 ] ME > so will contract them to you separately
You promised nothing, thats right. But i think you mentioned "your char" a bit to often to be a single mistake. Fact is: You used this char as bait, and everyone with a bit of common sense can see this.
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Mistletoes
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:15:00 -
[53]
Should be banned imo. Character scamming isn't allowed.
Think about it...CCP makes a fair bit of rl ú's from the character transfer system. If people start taking the p*@s with character scams then there's gonna be less people selling legit chars = less income.
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Emma Murphy
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:22:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Everybruce
there was no promise for a character - throughout our conversation I did not once say that I would transfer him the character, or prior to the accepting of the contract did either of us say that if he accepts the contract he will get the character.
He asked to buy the sleipnir for 500m, again - inferring a separate transaction entirely... would seriously like some clarification on this as it's been nearly 24 hours.. are the GMs on holiday or something?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1050855
Is this not the character for sale?
If so, you're blatantly lying about "not making a forum post". Also, scamming on the forums isn't allowed.
Also, when you boil it down to the bare facts, you can't really win this.
You baited 17.5 billion out of someone (who sold his own character to raise funds and spent all said funds on your character) with the premise that he was going to get a character. He didn't get the character.
You gonna get banned y0 (if that thread was indeed you)
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:26:00 -
[55]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 04/05/2009 17:29:48
Originally by: Butzewutze
Edited by: Butzewutze on 04/05/2009 17:14:43
Originally by: Everybruce
there was no promise for a character - throughout our conversation I did not once say that I would transfer him the character, or prior to the accepting of the contract did either of us say that if he accepts the contract he will get the character.
[ 2009.05.03 15:38:36 ] ME > would you want any assets with the character?
[ 2009.05.03 16:02:34 ] ME > if i sell i will have like 25b to spend on a char
[ 2009.05.03 17:40:01 ] ME > character forum says I cant include assets ont he char
[ 2009.05.03 17:40:05 ] ME > so will contract them to you separately
You promised nothing, thats right. But i think you mentioned "your char" a bit to often to be a single mistake. Fact is: You used this char as bait, and everyone with a bit of common sense can see this.
I highlighted the parts that are likely to cause you the most trouble. That sounds to me as if you were discussing a character sale and the other items (i.e. the Sleipner) were secondary and only included to meet the rules of the character forum, for the following reasons:
1) You specifically ask if any assets would be desired "with the character". That establishes that you are, in fact, intending to trade a character.
2) You specifically say that you are dumping the assets because "character forum says I cant include assets ont he char"
3) The phrase "so will contract them to you separately" continues to indicate that you are, in fact, attempting to trade a character.
And if I can read it that way, I'd imagine so can the GM's.
--Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it. |
Butzewutze
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:27:00 -
[56]
And btw. i think that guys like you are the worst **** around in eve. Even the lousiest carebear, canstealer, pirate, ninjasalvager, missionrunner, suicideganker... whatever... has more honor than you will ever have. So don't expect any sympathy from me.
But i guess you will understand that as compliment anyway.
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Everybruce
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:35:00 -
[57]
Aye, I understand what i've said - however, I never implicitly stated anything.
By forum posts, I meant none of the usual "buyout offer made", "accepted" - and more importantly, it was not once stated by ingame chat, evemail or forum post that he would pay for the character by way of accepting the contract - he said himself, make me a contract for 500m and i'll transfer the rest later.
Is it true that you cannot use the ingame contract system to create an EULA violation?
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Miss Shivarrr
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:40:00 -
[58]
OP i really dont believe you are telling us the whole truth.
Youre trying to pull one over us like you did over the person buying your char.
Quote:
[ 2009.05.03 15:22:15 ] ME > hey, sorry.. i was out
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:17 ] HIM > np
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:20 ] HIM > just got back myself
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:38 ] ME > ah hello
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:41 ] HIM > lo =)
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:59 ] ME > your offer certainly interests me
OP why would you be sorry you were out if you never had prior contact with the buyer and thus had no intention to talk at a specific time? You must have had some contact for the context of that quoted conversation to make sense.
Also you say "your offer certainly interests me". I see no mention of any offer from the buyer before that line is mentioned. So what offer interests you? Contextually that sentence makes no sense to me (unless i have discussed selling my char previously, ergo you have had prior discussion with buyer which you are purposely hiding).
Clearly you are trying to misguide us into having sympathy for you.
You clearly did a character scam and you must believe that to be the case to, or why would you have concerns about what you did yourself.
Isk should be returned to buyer at a minimum.
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Everybruce
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Miss Shivarrr
OP i really dont believe you are telling us the whole truth.
Youre trying to pull one over us like you did over the person buying your char.
Quote:
[ 2009.05.03 15:22:15 ] ME > hey, sorry.. i was out
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:17 ] HIM > np
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:20 ] HIM > just got back myself
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:38 ] ME > ah hello
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:41 ] HIM > lo =)
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:59 ] ME > your offer certainly interests me
OP why would you be sorry you were out if you never had prior contact with the buyer and thus had no intention to talk at a specific time? You must have had some contact for the context of that quoted conversation to make sense.
Also you say "your offer certainly interests me". I see no mention of any offer from the buyer before that line is mentioned. So what offer interests you? Contextually that sentence makes no sense to me (unless i have discussed selling my char previously, ergo you have had prior discussion with buyer which you are purposely hiding).
Clearly you are trying to misguide us into having sympathy for you.
You clearly did a character scam and you must believe that to be the case to, or why would you have concerns about what you did yourself.
Isk should be returned to buyer at a minimum.
He convoed me for the first time whilst I was out, invitation timed out.. I got back, convoed him again.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:45:00 -
[60]
I guess you don't understand
[ 2009.05.03 15:32:59 ] ME > your offer certainly interests me
What did he offered you? Post that chatlog so we can see the whole issue.
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