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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.20 17:04:00 -
[661]
Originally by: Hadrielloress
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Hadrielloress Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/08/2009 06:02:42 In this Thread,
People over-tank to make up for lack of Pilot skill, and complain they have crappy DPS when the reason they have crappy DPS is they over-tanked to begin with.
And also complain that its the ships fault when they are lacking.
First.. My skils are better than your on minmatar BS. On worst case equal since I have large Arties specializations at V and large AC spec at IV. Second being able to finish a mission is not being good or even decent. Being able to finish a mission fast is being good.
You talk like you think you know what efficient mission runnign is. You need to manage agro if you are in a weak mission runner. An efficient mission runner can agro all ships immediately to get whole room on optimal engagement envelope to finish it as fast as possible. That is efficient playing. The time that other group of shisp sits still at 90 km is time you are wasting, they could be approaching by themselves into slaughter range of highest damage ammo/guns. The difference between the blockade done the "safe way"or done the efficient way is 19 min or 35-45 min.
Maelstrom is far more powerful since tempest cannot match maelstrom DPS while supporting same level of tank that you NEED if you want to do the mission fast.
If you think doing 16M isk per hour running mission is a good PVE boat... please come back in a few years, when you can manage 40-45M isk per hour with efficient battleships and setups.
16m isk? where did you get that number from you didnt read the post like most half ****ed and half baked people in this thread. ::face palm::
Blockade I would say about 25 minutes in my tempest. Depending i usually crank about about 3 level 4s in an hour. Some have crap bounties and or crap salvage.
Originally by: Airborne Ninja
Originally by: Hadrielloress Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/08/2009 06:02:42 In this Thread,
People over-tank to make up for lack of Pilot skill, and complain they have crappy DPS when the reason they have crappy DPS is they over-tanked to begin with.
And also complain that its the ships fault when they are lacking.
Hi, my passive fitted tempest with no launchers outtanks your terrible active tempest and does a ***ping 60 less dps. Of course the 60 dps from your cruises is probably inconsequential since you're terrible and load them with defenders.
I added the DPS numbers in my edit. Im curious as to how you new my DPS before i put the Edit in to get your 60 less DPS number? Amazing mind reading skills? You make me LOL.
Lot of mind readers in this thread.
because people assume you have near max skill like they have, like all have and like everyone that is on this discussion should have. You are the one that is clearly nonsense or a troll. We don need to read minds, because this game is math based and we are better than you (you supported that in almost every line you wrote) and we can judge with farily precise accuracy these things.
16M isk is a general throw number based on what lowly efficient Level 4 runners get per hour. When you are "able to do complete the missions just fine" that is the level of income you usually get. When you are blazing trough mission then you get around 40-45M isk per hour.
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Airborne Ninja
Minmatar Virtual HitMen
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Posted - 2009.08.20 17:09:00 -
[662]
Originally by: Hadrielloress
High- 6x1400s,2xCruise mid- 1AB, 1 small booster, 1 large booster(panic button), 1 invu, 1 amp Rigs- 1 therm, 1 Em shield res, 1 ACU. Low- 3 gyros 1 BCU 1 Tracking Enhancer-boosts Optimal to Amarr level and gives tracking bonus.
I wonder if theres a program that would let me fit such a ship and see various statistics about it? Of course I have to guess which modules you used since you cant seem to actually post a fit.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.20 17:16:00 -
[663]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 20/08/2009 17:18:51
Originally by: Airborne Ninja
Hi, my passive fitted tempest with no launchers outtanks your terrible active tempest and does a ***ping 60 less dps. Of course the 60 dps from your cruises is probably inconsequential since you're terrible and load them with defenders.
I love the word filters on these boards. As if you were going to offend any Italians by talking about Damage Per Second.
Originally by: Hadrielloress
I added the DPS numbers in my edit. Im curious as to how you new my DPS before i put the Edit in to get your 60 less DPS number? Amazing mind reading skills? You make me LOL.
Lot of mind readers in this thread.
See, the thing you're missing Hadriel, is that AstroPhobic actually cares about Minmatar ships and weapons. His method is to go around bashing other people's setups until they realize the error in thinking everything is perfect the way it is.
I looked at the numbers on your setup, even with the edits, and I'm sorry, but it really isn't stellar. Yes, you do slightly more damage than a Maelstrom. But the ship has a tiny tank and takes a bunch of SP to get working right. With no missile skills and everything else the same, you could hop in a Maelstrom that tanks twice as much and has four damage mods, negating your advantage.
Yes, it works for you, and that's good. But because you've found a way to decently use the Tempest in PVE (I'll give you credit for that), does not make it better than the other Minnie BSs at it, and does not even put it close to Amarr or Caldari PVE ships.
And worse than that, it says nothing about the Tempest in PVP, which has been the point of the entire thread up until now.
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AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.20 17:18:00 -
[664]
Originally by: Hadrielloress My entire point has always been from the Missions perspective, I never made a claim it was for PVP, i also made the point that they are not good PvP. ::faceplam::
Okay, it's still terrible.
Quote: For the love of pete please get reading comprehension skills this is really sickening now. You broke a sentence up and are inventing a context it never had. The point being if you could read, was that its useless to compare subjectively because everyone skills vary so wildly.
Maybe you should think about what you type before you submit reply. DPS is in no way subjective.
Quote: Then why do they have ships that have active tank bonuses that are almost usless in PvP, they focuse is on PvP but its not all there is to the game. Are you trying to be this slow. If it was all about PvP 100% this game would be like a FPS not a MMO. There would be no NPCS if it was PvP only. Try using a Black bird in a mission? LOL. Using logical fallacy's all over the place, but then they dont really teach how to reason and think clearly in schools anymore it seems.
I did not say 100%, I said it was balanced around PVP. Active tank bonuses aren't useless in PvP - hell look at the maelstrom. The only reason it's a half decent ship is because of it's giant active tank. If you had been around back in 04, you would know that active tanks ruled and buffer was almost never used. For someone throwing around the term "logical fallacy" around, you don't have a very firm grasp on the meaning. Let's look at your MMO-FPS argument - if a game is 100% pvp, it would be a first person shooter, not a multiplayer online game. Honestly? Try reading further down the Wikipedia page.
The majority of the player base is only concerned about PVE for whatever reason, but that does not change the fact that this is a PVP game.
Quote: No its not outperformed by a substantial amount, I have show that is not true. And i have show that the Strom is different but not superior to the tempest. Also majority =/= correct thats a logical fallicy stop using it, again flat earth, earth center of the universe etc. Argumentum ad populum /Argumentum ad numerum.
You're quite dense. You never provided numerical evidence in the slightest, and I never claimed the maelstrom was better because it was more popular. You're just making stuff up and honestly it's pathetic. For someone obsessed with fallacies, you're quite blind to your own fallacious nature. It's expected though, you come in here with an ego bigger than chribba's veldnaught set out to prove us wrong with no numbers whatsoever, just opinions and empty statements.
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Ava Starfire
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Posted - 2009.08.20 17:20:00 -
[665]
The tempest has sails. Which is kinda cool.
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Hadrielloress
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Posted - 2009.08.20 20:01:00 -
[666]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Okay, it's still terrible.
Now in PvP its a Good RR BS, most will admit that as it has two utility High slots. No start looking at other BS out there and fit two RR and their guns and you will see the Tempest does not lose as much DPS as the other BS out there. The mega for example has more DPS but its guns run off the cap of the ship meaning if you are capped out running your RR's you have no more DPS etc. Mega though is arguably one of the best gank ships for PvP. the tempest is just a better RR ship.
The tempest does not lose a substantial amount of DPs compared to other BS when you fit other things in those two slots.
You may not think its a big deal but its Place in a RR gang is a very solid role for it. Its a Gang BS thats its place in PvP many ships need gangs. look at ECM ships, they are gang ships. Not all PvP ships are good as solos but they shine elsewhere.
So its not terrible. Mimitar has one of the best Solo PvP ships the typhoon its just skill intensive. Honestly i think the Strom is the one that lacks in PvP viability. But it has its place firmly in PvE for low skill BS pilots. High SP mimitar pilots have the Tempest and Phoon, Pest is easier to get into SP wise and put out good DPS rather then waiting a year to be able to fly a phoon well.
Quote: Maybe you should think about what you type before you submit reply. DPS is in no way subjective.
Actually in the context of what i presented as in relation to Graph data and how it actually applies to the average player and their skills and implants is subjective from that standpoint.
Quote: I did not say 100%, I said it was balanced around PVP. Active tank bonuses aren't useless in PvP - hell look at the maelstrom. The only reason it's a half decent ship is because of it's giant active tank. If you had been around back in 04, you would know that active tanks ruled and buffer was almost never used. For someone throwing around the term "logical fallacy" around, you don't have a very firm grasp on the meaning. Let's look at your MMO-FPS argument - if a game is 100% pvp, it would be a first person shooter, not a multiplayer online game. Honestly? Try reading further down the Wikipedia page.
You did not say it wasnt 100% either, if you dont say or qualify it before hand your are putting forth that in your argument that it is 100% when you present it. Especially with an almost authoritarian statement and standpoint.
You used the very definitions of various logical fallacies. Now your saying this is what it used to be like, but that's a red herring another logical fallacy. As we are not talking about HOW it used to be but HOW it is now.
Quote: The majority of the player base is only concerned about PVE for whatever reason, but that does not change the fact that this is a PVP game.
You just flipped on your own argument.
Quote: You're quite dense. You never provided numerical evidence in the slightest, and I never claimed the maelstrom was better because it was more popular. You're just making stuff up and honestly it's pathetic. For someone obsessed with fallacies, you're quite blind to your own fallacious nature. It's expected though, you come in here with an ego bigger than chribba's veldnaught set out to prove us wrong with no numbers whatsoever, just opinions and empty statements.
I added and edit to one of my posts you need to read. Go check EFT, MIM BS 5, Mim art and spec 5,(acs spec are only 3 i was basing off of my arty fit.) Cruise missiles/spec 5 (torp 4), 5% Turret implant. I Rep fleet faction gyros, caldari BCU. My shield skills are 5 mostly all of them (that passive res stuff only at 3 before i new better) Mostly tech two or faction gear. Tech 2 drones etc.
What more did i need as i posted numbers? I think you actually respond after i added the numbers in my previous post. So i dont know how you missed it. I mean really open mouth insert foot every time you post.
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Hadrielloress
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Posted - 2009.08.20 20:19:00 -
[667]
Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/08/2009 20:19:47 Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/08/2009 20:19:10
Originally by: Seishi Maru
because people assume you have near max skill like they have, like all have and like everyone that is on this discussion should have. You are the one that is clearly nonsense or a troll. We don need to read minds, because this game is math based and we are better than you (you supported that in almost every line you wrote) and we can judge with farily precise accuracy these things.
16M isk is a general throw number based on what lowly efficient Level 4 runners get per hour. When you are "able to do complete the missions just fine" that is the level of income you usually get. When you are blazing trough mission then you get around 40-45M isk per hour.
You know what they say about assumptions, makes a fool out of you and me. But not really me just you.
MIM BS 5, Mim art and spec 5,(acs spec are only 3 i was basing off of my arty fit.) Cruise missiles/spec 5 (torp 4), 5% Turret implant. I Rep fleet faction gyros, caldari BCU. My shield skills are 5 mostly all of them (that passive res stuff only at 3 before i new better) Mostly tech two or faction gear. Tech 2 drones etc.
Its not that hard to get to these levels in a few months. Sure your I only have 2.5 mil sp character cant do this ship, nor even a 5 mil SP character. But when you are 7.5 mil you should if you focused right be catching up to this fit and at 10 mil be coasting through missions like butter.
I must be doing real well with my crappy ship making more then 45mil. Makes me feel warm inside knowing that in such a TERRIBLE ship.
No let me flip something around on this point. I dont have an issue payting attention to where the enemy is or having them in range when i need to pull their aggro. The rats will always be in range by the time im done with one group. And I try to drag them so they are all in the same area or in a line to easily salvage them.
That extra 6 minutes of the blockade I grant is spent on moving closer to the spawns as the come but they aggro when they spawn anyway. But that is more an exception then the rule. But that is in one mission, in AE Vengence etc its not really much of an issue most things are in target range or i can set it up so that when as said before when Im done with one group Im in target range of the next.
That is player skill, managing aggro, manual flying around the Room so when the last rat dies you are right on the gates, and being able to kill all the targets close together or in an easy to salvage line.
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AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.20 20:22:00 -
[668]
Originally by: Hadrielloress
Now in PvP its a Good RR BS, most will admit that as it has two utility High slots. No start looking at other BS out there and fit two RR and their guns and you will see the Tempest does not lose as much DPS as the other BS out there. The mega for example has more DPS but its guns run off the cap of the ship meaning if you are capped out running your RR's you have no more DPS etc. Mega though is arguably one of the best gank ships for PvP. the tempest is just a better RR ship.
The phoon is a far better RR ship than the pest.
And the pest is overshadowed by the phoon and mael is nearly every role. Therefore why it needs changing, along with projectiles which are ripe crap.
Quote: You did not say it wasnt 100% either, if you dont say or qualify it before hand your are putting forth that in your argument that it is 100% when you present it. Especially with an almost authoritarian statement and standpoint.
It's not a red car therefore it must be a silver car? Again with the fallacies mate. I didn't qualify a percentage because I didn't want to qualify a percentage. It doesn't automatically make it 100%.
Quote: As we are not talking about HOW it used to be but HOW it is now.
No. EVE always goes in cycles, active tanks will be all the rage in 2011. Active tank bonuses were put on some ships back when they were still a reasonable fit on pvp ships. CCP put active tank bonuses on ships back when they were still viable for PVP. So which fallacy did you just commit?
Quote: You just flipped on your own argument.
Or you're incapable of understanding that they're two separate things. It's a PVP game, where most of the players PVE.
Quote: I added and edit to one of my posts you need to read. Go check EFT, MIM BS 5, Mim art and spec 5,(acs spec are only 3 i was basing off of my arty fit.) Cruise missiles/spec 5 (torp 4), 5% Turret implant. I Rep fleet faction gyros, caldari BCU. My shield skills are 5 mostly all of them (that passive res stuff only at 3 before i new better) Mostly tech two or faction gear. Tech 2 drones etc.
I'll take some time to look over your fit and demonstrate how it is inferior to a maelstrom.
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Polinus
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.08.20 20:44:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Hadrielloress Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/08/2009 20:19:47 Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/08/2009 20:19:10
Originally by: Seishi Maru
because people assume you have near max skill like they have, like all have and like everyone that is on this discussion should have. You are the one that is clearly nonsense or a troll. We don need to read minds, because this game is math based and we are better than you (you supported that in almost every line you wrote) and we can judge with farily precise accuracy these things.
16M isk is a general throw number based on what lowly efficient Level 4 runners get per hour. When you are "able to do complete the missions just fine" that is the level of income you usually get. When you are blazing trough mission then you get around 40-45M isk per hour.
You know what they say about assumptions, makes a fool out of you and me. But not really me just you.
MIM BS 5, Mim art and spec 5,(acs spec are only 3 i was basing off of my arty fit.) Cruise missiles/spec 5 (torp 4), 5% Turret implant. I Rep fleet faction gyros, caldari BCU. My shield skills are 5 mostly all of them (that passive res stuff only at 3 before i new better) Mostly tech two or faction gear. Tech 2 drones etc.
Its not that hard to get to these levels in a few months. Sure your I only have 2.5 mil sp character cant do this ship, nor even a 5 mil SP character. But when you are 7.5 mil you should if you focused right be catching up to this fit and at 10 mil be coasting through missions like butter.
I must be doing real well with my crappy ship making more then 45mil. Makes me feel warm inside knowing that in such a TERRIBLE ship.
No let me flip something around on this point. I dont have an issue payting attention to where the enemy is or having them in range when i need to pull their aggro. The rats will always be in range by the time im done with one group. And I try to drag them so they are all in the same area or in a line to easily salvage them.
That extra 6 minutes of the blockade I grant is spent on moving closer to the spawns as the come but they aggro when they spawn anyway. But that is more an exception then the rule. But that is in one mission, in AE Vengence etc its not really much of an issue most things are in target range or i can set it up so that when as said before when Im done with one group Im in target range of the next.
That is player skill, managing aggro, manual flying around the Room so when the last rat dies you are right on the gates, and being able to kill all the targets close together or in an easy to salvage line.
I really doubt you are doing more than 45M isk per hour running mission with a tempest. Because that is a very high income that people achieve usually with marauders salvaging and looting WHILE running mission.
That sided with statements that the fit you posted being good basically indicates that you are lying most likely.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.20 20:52:00 -
[670]
Originally by: Hadrielloress
Originally by: AstroPhobic Okay, it's still terrible.
Now in PvP its a Good RR BS, most will admit that as it has two utility High slots. No start looking at other BS out there and fit two RR and their guns and you will see the Tempest does not lose as much DPS as the other BS out there. The mega for example has more DPS but its guns run off the cap of the ship meaning if you are capped out running your RR's you have no more DPS etc. Mega though is arguably one of the best gank ships for PvP. the tempest is just a better RR ship.
The tempest does not lose a substantial amount of DPs compared to other BS when you fit other things in those two slots.
Clear statement of someone that doe snot know what is talking about. Ships that can fit 2 RR with MORE effective damage capability than tempest and better HP buffer. Armageddon( admited tight fit), Megatron, Dominix,Typhoon,Abaddon, even apocalypse is superior when you consider its range advantage. TEmpest is not much better than Raven on that class.
There as a very long thread some months ago about RR battleship and everyone that presented the proposition of the tempest being a GOOD RR BS were proved wrong clearly and without any doubts.
Tempest is just JUST ABOVE PATHETIC at RR gangs, because its base damage IS very low. That sided with fact it has 1 less low slot than most of its competition means it will be forced to use 1 less Damage mod to achieve same class tank, that reduces even further its damage. Tempest is just USABLE at RR gangs, but no where near the GOOD choices.
------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Chestrano
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Posted - 2009.08.20 21:13:00 -
[671]
Edited by: Chestrano on 20/08/2009 21:14:03
Originally by: Hadrielloress blabla troll blabla
Guys its obvious that this char is an Troll. She offends everybody by saying every person who think the tempest is bad in either playing the game, charbased SP or both. Further she posts obvious trollfittings. She says we only bring opinions, while she is ignoring the facts we wrote and writing only opinions by herself (except the 50 million Isk/hour without SP thing. Thats a number. But tbh its hard to believe).
Ignore her. Trolls tend to give up if they dont get attention!
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.20 22:43:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Hadrielloress Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/08/2009 20:19:47 Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/08/2009 20:19:10
Originally by: Seishi Maru
because people assume you have near max skill like they have, like all have and like everyone that is on this discussion should have. You are the one that is clearly nonsense or a troll. We don need to read minds, because this game is math based and we are better than you (you supported that in almost every line you wrote) and we can judge with farily precise accuracy these things.
16M isk is a general throw number based on what lowly efficient Level 4 runners get per hour. When you are "able to do complete the missions just fine" that is the level of income you usually get. When you are blazing trough mission then you get around 40-45M isk per hour.
You know what they say about assumptions, makes a fool out of you and me. But not really me just you.
MIM BS 5, Mim art and spec 5,(acs spec are only 3 i was basing off of my arty fit.) Cruise missiles/spec 5 (torp 4), 5% Turret implant. I Rep fleet faction gyros, caldari BCU. My shield skills are 5 mostly all of them (that passive res stuff only at 3 before i new better) Mostly tech two or faction gear. Tech 2 drones etc.
Its not that hard to get to these levels in a few months. Sure your I only have 2.5 mil sp character cant do this ship, nor even a 5 mil SP character. But when you are 7.5 mil you should if you focused right be catching up to this fit and at 10 mil be coasting through missions like butter.
I must be doing real well with my crappy ship making more then 45mil. Makes me feel warm inside knowing that in such a TERRIBLE ship.
No let me flip something around on this point. I dont have an issue payting attention to where the enemy is or having them in range when i need to pull their aggro. The rats will always be in range by the time im done with one group. And I try to drag them so they are all in the same area or in a line to easily salvage them.
That extra 6 minutes of the blockade I grant is spent on moving closer to the spawns as the come but they aggro when they spawn anyway. But that is more an exception then the rule. But that is in one mission, in AE Vengence etc its not really much of an issue most things are in target range or i can set it up so that when as said before when Im done with one group Im in target range of the next.
That is player skill, managing aggro, manual flying around the Room so when the last rat dies you are right on the gates, and being able to kill all the targets close together or in an easy to salvage line.
For starters. The skils you listed are more than the 7.5 M sp that you said as parameter of who coudl have them. When you add support skills it passes way over 10 M SP.
So proven and end of discussion. You lie. Moot point back to tempest discussion. Now i hope with people that can at least do basic math.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.20 22:43:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Chestrano Edited by: Chestrano on 20/08/2009 21:14:03
Originally by: Hadrielloress blabla troll blabla
Guys its obvious that this char is an Troll. She offends everybody by saying every person who think the tempest is bad in either playing the game, charbased SP or both.
Yeah this was basicly clear after the 3. post in this thread for people that know about the content(serious nobody can be this stupid and if he is, it is not worth a response).
Also with any serious fix to the Pest it will still be the 2. choice compared to the Mael in PVE. That is not a bad thing in the end, since I would like a Pest that works in PVP a lot more than a Pest that outdoes the Mael in PVE(for the simple reason that the Mael fits here perfect allready, beside the general Arti problem -> what would be worth a full second thread as well).
To get the PVE topic done for good, split weapons on the pest never produce more DPS on TQ for PVE(than with the mael). The basic reason is that you need to increase tracking for guns and fit TPs/damage mods for missles. Both of this is not possible in one fitting(and never was in a resonable way).
If you got 8 guns you put anything in damage and tracking, the result will allways outdo any try to split it over 2 weapon systems for general PVE performance(if you don¦t, the effective DPS gain of 2 unbonused missle lunchers is basicly close to zero compared to your turret DPS). I will not start a EFT/troll/flame war about this point, because this would be pointless(since it is hard to prove on pure EFT stats that tracking == DPS) and the fact that people that would have a resonable opinion will know this for shure.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Hadrielloress
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Posted - 2009.08.20 23:13:00 -
[674]
Wow i really had no idea people were seriously this bad at PVE after the last few posts.
As for the RR comments, its has capless guns as stated and do your really want to take the raw DPS off the ship like the mega i point out makes more DPS. Honestly it makes you look stupid because you did not read the post. Seems your read the first line and went into rage mode without out reading the rest.
Its clear there is no such thing as a legitimate discussion if they cant even make over 50 mil in a normal BS. I thought what i was doing was normal.
The lack of reading comprehension is even more stupefying.
Troll fittings, dont make me laugh anymore, if what others say is true im making all that isk in missions on a troll fitting. Without a marauder. I guess my fitting is just two hard for you, ill note that now.
As for the SP thing it was not referring to my own SP read it again. its talking about the progression of people as they grow into BS. I was making 40 mil and hour at 10 million SP. The funniest thing is You all think im trolling. Cause it must be trolling if you cant do it right. Or if someone found a better way to do it that isnt what everyone else says is the way to do it. Its rather pathetic. But I usually don't expect people to be so limited. Im always disappointed they prove my conception that they are smart intelligent and objective only to have them shock me by not being any of those qualities.
But people with such limited comprehension I guess cant do anything unless its the FOTM or from the cookie cutter factory. Its like being in a land of the blind.
Pest is fine it seems that its user error and lots of EFT warriors that hate it.
Ill be honest if they boost it I will be more then happy to take it since it will only make things easier for me. I actually only have an issue with the Mim marauder since my tech 1 BS mission better then it.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.20 23:22:00 -
[675]
No, we know that you are trollign just because you write too much stupid things. Like ignoring fact that typhoon also does not use cap to fire its guns... Or simply the fact that we know that its incredibly easy to make better fitting than these and even so is hard to reach 40 M isk hour with a tempest (even for someone that knows how to fit a ship).
Also the fact that you attack the people directly, even without knowing them or how much they know about the subject is the clear remark of either a troll or a child/teenager. We on other hand have a pretty reasonable ammount of proofs that you have no Idea what you write about OR you are trolling. Since very few people are that nonsense, we can easily stablish that you are on a high percentage chance a troll.
We want to conduct a proper discussion about tempest and you are anoying us and being detrimental to the thread and forum.
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Chestrano
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Posted - 2009.08.20 23:26:00 -
[676]
Edited by: Chestrano on 20/08/2009 23:26:36 Please dont feed the troll
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AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.21 03:41:00 -
[677]
So anyway, I hear the tempest is clearly the best battleship.Ö
Thoughts?
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BiggestT
Caldari Oz Space Diggers
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Posted - 2009.08.21 05:56:00 -
[678]
Originally by: AstroPhobic So anyway, I hear the tempest is clearly the best battleship.Ö
Thoughts?
Aye,
It's clearly the Tempest (Am I doin it rite?) EVE history
t2 precisions |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.21 06:56:00 -
[679]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: AstroPhobic So anyway, I hear the tempest is clearly the best battleship.Ö
Thoughts?
Aye,
It's clearly the TempestÖ.
Fixed! Because it isn't a counterfactual statement if you trademark it.
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Marn Prestoc
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.08.21 08:30:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon ...
Tempest is just JUST ABOVE PATHETIC at RR gangs, because its base damage IS very low. That sided with fact it has 1 less low slot than most of its competition means it will be forced to use 1 less Damage mod to achieve same class tank, that reduces even further its damage. Tempest is just USABLE at RR gangs, but no where near the GOOD choices.
Just to share some numbers to demonstrate resistances made from when amarr tears flowed and base resistances were changed: Time Till Death.
Clearly shows the Tempest is never better than "average" even when using a ammo type (hael) that makes AC's have less optimal, falloff and tracking than any other weapon.
It also shows what little difference damage type choice makes when the choices are pretty poor and your base damage is poor.
A 5th mid will never make up for it. Want a 5 mid RR ship? Get a Dominix. -
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.21 11:32:00 -
[681]
While damage type does make some difference on several scenarios, its not enough to counter massive base DPS difference on those scenarios.
And there are other scenarios like capital ships that usually have better balanced resists (its not rare to find tri hardener + EANM+ DC tanks). |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2009.08.21 12:29:00 -
[682]
Originally by: AstroPhobic So anyway, I hear the tempest is clearly the best battleship.Ö
Thoughts?
Agreed I'm going to repackage my trimark rigged Phoons and buy 2 Pests for every 3 Phoons I sell.
It's worth it as they have less HP's, less DPS and less dronespace so obviously far superior!
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.08.21 12:31:00 -
[683]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: AstroPhobic So anyway, I hear the tempest is clearly the best battleship.Ö
Thoughts?
Agreed I'm going to repackage my trimark rigged Phoons and buy 2 Pests for every 3 Phoons I sell.
It's worth it as they have less HP's, less DPS and less dronespace so obviously far superior!
You know the single multispec ECM makes sense! ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2009.08.21 12:34:00 -
[684]
Originally by: Bibbleibble
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: AstroPhobic So anyway, I hear the tempest is clearly the best battleship.Ö
Thoughts?
Agreed I'm going to repackage my trimark rigged Phoons and buy 2 Pests for every 3 Phoons I sell.
It's worth it as they have less HP's, less DPS and less dronespace so obviously far superior!
You know the single multispec ECM makes sense!
Oh yeah I forgot the cost of the insurance is more as well so that's even more incentive.
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Polinus
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.08.21 15:50:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: AstroPhobic So anyway, I hear the tempest is clearly the best battleship.Ö
Thoughts?
Agreed I'm going to repackage my trimark rigged Phoons and buy 2 Pests for every 3 Phoons I sell.
It's worth it as they have less HP's, less DPS and less dronespace so obviously far superior!
do not forget slower
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AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.21 16:18:00 -
[686]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: AstroPhobic So anyway, I hear the tempest is clearly the best battleship.Ö
Thoughts?
Agreed I'm going to repackage my trimark rigged Phoons and buy 2 Pests for every 3 Phoons I sell.
It's worth it as they have less HP's, less DPS and less dronespace so obviously far superior!
Spread the word! The best battleshipÖ deserves recognition!
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Chestrano
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Posted - 2009.08.21 16:38:00 -
[687]
Edited by: Chestrano on 21/08/2009 16:38:42 Its not only the best Battleship™ Its the best ship™¬« there is for any situation due to the sails!
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.08.21 16:57:00 -
[688]
Originally by: Chestrano Edited by: Chestrano on 21/08/2009 16:38:42 Its not only the best BattleshipÖ Its the best shipÖ¬« there is for any situation due to the sails!
TBH the Tempest would be overpowered if CCP boosted it, because then it would be useful AND have sails! ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.21 18:01:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Just to share some numbers to demonstrate resistances made from when amarr tears flowed and base resistances were changed: Time Till Death.
Clearly shows the Tempest is never better than "average" even when using a ammo type (hael) that makes AC's have less optimal, falloff and tracking than any other weapon.
Uhh...those charts figure in a ship's total EHP, not just it's armor, right? As in, each ship started shooting when the BS was at full shields, and simulated time 'till death?
Because yes, the Pest still looks crap in those graphs, but the Maelstrom and the Typhoon look like they top almost every single list. Summat dun look right...
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.08.21 18:18:00 -
[690]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 21/08/2009 18:20:48
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Just to share some numbers to demonstrate resistances made from when amarr tears flowed and base resistances were changed: Time Till Death.
Clearly shows the Tempest is never better than "average" even when using a ammo type (hael) that makes AC's have less optimal, falloff and tracking than any other weapon.
Uhh...those charts figure in a ship's total EHP, not just it's armor, right? As in, each ship started shooting when the BS was at full shields, and simulated time 'till death?
Because yes, the Pest still looks crap in those graphs, but the Maelstrom and the Typhoon look like they top almost every single list. Summat dun look right...
that chart if I remember rigth was made with assumption of the attackign ship beign able to fit 5 modules tank. That means the tempest have 1 damage mod maesltrom have 3 megatron have 2 etc...
Also notice that maesltrom is using HAIL while the mega uses Navy ammo. That means the megatron has a MASSIVE tracking AND range advantage.
You should compare only faction ammo since close range ammo against faction ammo is a much more complicated thing to compare. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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