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New 11% Tax for all NPC Corps

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Kerfira	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:39:00 - [571] Originally by: Hythloday Try not to imply that those who form one man corps are going to trap themselves. We have recruitment forums and channels for when they get bored of the solitude. That is no substitute for getting to know people over a period (which is actually what goes on in the NPC corp) and deciding to go at it together, and you know it! The recruitment channels and forums are filled with scammers etc., not to mention that you have to trust that what people say in their 2 line commercial is true. It is NOT something to put forward as anywhere near being comparative to building a social relationship over time in the NPC corp. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:49:00 - [572] And still the tears continue to flow like that of the yellow river. As I said before it is about time you solo monkies coughed up for your protection, now we are more equal.
Quinn Foute	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:50:00 - [573] This Thread tl-dr After naptraining every1 in their own territory and building big stagnating powerblocks PvPers now need to seek their targets in empire NPCCorps
Hythloday Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:53:00 - [574] Edited by: Hythloday on 22/09/2009 13:53:42 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Hythloday Try not to imply that those who form one man corps are going to trap themselves. We have recruitment forums and channels for when they get bored of the solitude. That is no substitute for getting to know people over a period (which is actually what goes on in the NPC corp) and deciding to go at it together, and you know it! The recruitment channels and forums are filled with scammers etc., not to mention that you have to trust that what people say in their 2 line commercial is true. It is NOT something to put forward as anywhere near being comparative to building a social relationship over time in the NPC corp. The first corp I joined I did so the way you described. It was a lot of fun. Then I got bored with kicking around in empire and I picked an alliance using the recruitment forums. That was even more fun. Then they got kicked out of their space and I joined another alliance, pretty much because they were nearby. Then I took a break and joined a pirate corp I found on the recruitment forums. It was all fun, I haven't joined a corp that I ended up hating, and guess what, even if I was in a corp that I hated being in, I can quit and find another one. Originally by: Julian Lynq People join player corps because they want to socially interact, not so they can earn 5% more income- what a bad corp would that be that¦d attract theese kinds of players? Oh well then if its such an inconsequential change, why are so many people ***ing about it? Originally by:** Hamshoe How many who wouldn't have done so anyway? I don't think you can say, any more than you can say it will make any difference at all. It's just human nature. Even in active war zones (silly real world comparison, I know) generally less than 5% of a population chooses to move. People are much more likely to just sit and see what fate brings. Would a 1% change in the tax rate be enough to move you, or would it take something else? Well you know what, we can wait and see what happens, instead of simply not trying because we think we know everything about human nature. If it doesn't work, we can see what effect raising the tax has,, besides of course eliciting the usual spate of bawwing from the likes of you.
Hamshoe	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:57:00 - [575] Originally by: baltec1 As I said before it is about time you solo monkies coughed up for your protection, now we are more equal. And there you have it. Support for no reason other than the fact that you feel you can't compete, you need the help to feel more equal. Again, if it's the sweet and easy life why aren't you doing it yourself? Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
Wang LeeMei United Kings DEFI4NT	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:58:00 - [576] Originally by: Hythloday Well you know what, we can wait and see what happens,... noo they cant wait they all are visionarys they all know what future will bring ... hype for the loss fly safe
Julian Lynq	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:59:00 - [577] Originally by: Hythloday Oh well then if its such an inconsequential change, why are so many people ***ing about it? Originally by:** PostWithYourAlt This Thread keeps being dragged off topic into a hatred PVE vrs. PVP war in a way that makes the pvp crowd seem blinded against what the real issue is. CCP Eris and CCP Soundwave(as it seems) are proposing a fix to a symptom instead of proposing a fix to the yet not even determined cause. The "fix" will naturally not have the desired effect and thus is not even a fix but rather just a "random change". The critic is that we as players want CCP Gamedesigners to act thoughtfull and make changes to the game that actually mean something. Actual fixes that fix actual problems. All the "I am PVP" and "I am PVE" attitutes aside, everyone will agree that the game does not profit from half thought through unmeaningfull changes. You should all be thankfull to the guys raising this in demonstration of their protest to CCP regarding this kind of workflow within their game design deparment. The next miscue "fix" could be impacting you too. This explains it well
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:00:00 - [578] Originally by: baltec1 And still the tears continue to flow like that of the yellow river. As I said before it is about time you solo monkies coughed up for your protection, now we are more equal. The point is that the solo guys will CONTINUE to be solo guys, all for the cost of 1.6m ISK it costs to create a 1-man corp.... If they get a 2m wardec, they ditch the 1-man corp, pay another 1.6m ISK and create another 1-man corp in 5 seconds. That 1.6m is recovered in tax-savings about 1 hour worth of L4 mission running, and the next wardec can't go into effect until 24 hours later. Into the bargain is also losing what interaction with other players they had in the NPC corp..... Hardly something that should be aimed for in an MMO High-sec DOES pay (way) too much, but instead of changing just one small little corner in a way that'll not affect that anyway, CCP should address the problem, not the symptom! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Hamshoe	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:04:00 - [579] Originally by: Hythloday Well you know what, we can wait and see what happens, instead of simply not trying because we think we know everything about human nature. If it doesn't work, we can see what effect raising the tax has,, besides of course eliciting the usual spate of bawwing from the likes of you. I don't think you honestly support the idea because you can't think of anything else. I think you can't get around to why you really support it. Again, would it work for you? It's an obvious fact of human nature. How many people sit around in countries with onerous tax rates rather than move somewhere else? How many people squat in refugee camps? This is not a difficult or particularly obscure concept. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
Frank Horrigan	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:12:00 - [580] (Haven't replied before) ... Bout Damn Time.

baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:12:00 - [581] Originally by: Hamshoe Originally by: baltec1 As I said before it is about time you solo monkies coughed up for your protection, now we are more equal. And there you have it. Support for no reason other than the fact that you feel you can't compete, you need the help to feel more equal. Again, if it's the sweet and easy life why aren't you doing it yourself? Lets see, because I can get access to a personal research and manufaturing tower in high sec, because I have lots of freinds who I mess around with, because I get access to 0.0, because I get backup if I need a hand with something, because I get access to "free" Leeroy ships, ect. Naturaly I pay towards this via a 10% corp tax and with donated loot that gets melted down and forged into more Leeroys. As I said, it is about time you payed for the services your NPC corp provides you.
Hythloday Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:15:00 - [582] Edited by: Hythloday on 22/09/2009 14:15:22 Originally by: Julian Lynq Originally by: Hythloday Oh well then if its such an inconsequential change, This explains it well Yeah that posts a kind of a pointless sentiment. Eve has problems, some of them are so deeply ingrained that they will never ever ever be changed, all we can do is treat the symptoms. For example, gate camping... the cause of that is the game's travel system and world layout forcing players into gun range of other ships... that can be fixed by completely changing the game's travel systems so that they don't even nearly resemble what we have now... but the effects of such a huge change would be immeasurable on an established game and community, and we'd have to change a bunch of other stuff even to have a functioning game. Thats the kind of thing that could genuinely Ruin the GameÖ The best we can do is patch up the holes. If you want to address the 'causes' of problems, then pretty much your only practical option is make a new game from scratch. Welcome to the world of MMO development
Cassiopeia Draco	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:23:00 - [583] Edited by: Cassiopeia Draco on 22/09/2009 14:23:46 Edited by: Cassiopeia Draco on 22/09/2009 14:23:08 Originally by: Kerfira Into the bargain is also losing what interaction with other players they had in the NPC corp..... Hardly something that should be aimed for in an MMO You know just a thought, they could create a corp with the players they like interacting with in the NPC corp, and see where it goes, its not rocket science, or is it.
Julian Lynq	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:23:00 - [584] Originally by: Hythloday you: the change is great I: the change doesn¦t fullfill the goal because {...} you: why is it bad if a change doesn¦t fullfill the goal ? I: here is why {...} you: but the change fullfills the goal
Rordan D'Kherr Amarr	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:27:00 - [585] Instead of crying many tears you guys should use the time to fly one additional mission per week to make even more money without any risk in your NPC corp. WTB lol-tax and 98% safety.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:30:00 - [586] I'm reading claims here that mission running in hi sec don't carry any real risk. Well, it just so happens that it carries as much risk as any other profession in Eve when you're good at it. Take for example gate camping with alts on other side of the gates watching for incoming threats. Some of you will argue that it does carry risk because there is the remote chance the camp might get a hot drop. That's akin to saying that mission running carries risk because you might get scrambled and killed by NPCs. Seriously, the chance of either of these happening is low if you're aware. So either there is risk in all professions in Eve or there's none. Stop using mission running as your escape goat because it's the one profession in Eve that'll bring you more free targets if CCP were to change it. EVERYONE in Eve minimizes their risk to virtually zero. When I used to rat in 0.0 and lo sec (yes, at one point I was stupid enough to rat and mine in lo sec ) I was never encountered by either a fair amount (usually it was me vs 3+) and never was I encountered by another mining/ratting ship (my osprey vs PVP Rapier of Death). Hell, my mining osprey wouldn't survive the one Rapier of the group piloted by much older players, much less a pack of 4 or more. So this bull that Mission running has no risk needs to stop. If you're good enough at it, no profession in Eve carries real risk. End of.
Hythloday Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:33:00 - [587] Edited by: Hythloday on 22/09/2009 14:33:36 Originally by: Julian Lynq Originally by: Hythloday you: the change is great I: the change doesn¦t fullfill the goal because {...} you: why is it bad if a change doesn¦t fullfill the goal ? I: here is why {...} you: but the change fullfills the goal Me: Pretty much everyone who hasn't been in a newb corp for 2 years likes this idea. You: Well I don't like it and it won't work. Me: Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it won't work You: But it won't work because it only amounts to about 5% loss of income that won't motivate anyone to move into a player corp Me: If it's so inconsequential why is there so much whining? You: Because it doesn't address the underlying causes of the problems we have Me: Its impossible to address the underlying causes of problems in MMOs because so much stuff is built on them. The only practical course of action is to address the symptoms, or make a new game. You: <A synopses of a conversation that apparently happened in your imagination.>
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:38:00 - [588] This will have zero effect on my wallet but imo CCP are just looking for ways to remove Isk from the game and claiming it is to encourage people to join player corps and promote interaction. As has been said, this won't persuade or force solo players into player corps. It will likely create thousands of 1 man corps that are even more solitary and isolated from other players than when they were in the NPC corp. Not everybody in an NPC corp is a macrominer/ isk farmer / never talks. There are lots of players sharing their knowledge and helping eachother. There are also a lot of 0.0 players/ losec players who have alts in them who are smart enough to just create their own corp and leave. This proposed change does NOTHING apart from inconvenience people and remove Isk from the game. Which is why I believe this is just an attempt to fight inflation.
Hamshoe	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:38:00 - [589] Originally by: baltec1 Lets see, because I can get access to a personal research and manufaturing tower in high sec, because I have lots of freinds who I mess around with, because I get access to 0.0, because I get backup if I need a hand with something, because I get access to "free" Leeroy ships, ect. Naturaly I pay towards this via a 10% corp tax and with donated loot that gets melted down and forged into more Leeroys. So in short, because you enjoy it more? So what's your beef with people who don't? This is a classic case of "My neighbor has two cows and I only want one. Someone should kill one of his cows so he doesn't have more than me". No one is stopping you from having all the fine services of an NPC corp, you're choosing not to take advantage and want others penalized so you can feel better about your choice. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:44:00 - [590] Edited by: baltec1 on 22/09/2009 14:45:08 Originally by: Hamshoe So in short, because you enjoy it more? So what's your beef with people who don't? This is a classic case of "My neighbor has two cows and I only want one. Someone should kill one of his cows so he doesn't have more than me". No one is stopping you from having all the fine services of an NPC corp, you're choosing not to take advantage and want others penalized so you can feel better about your choice. Works the both ways boyo. I pay taxes for my corps services yet your too good to pay taxes for the services provided for you?

Kerfira	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:53:00 - [591] Originally by: Cassiopeia Draco You know just a thought, they could create a corp with the players they like interacting with in the NPC corp, and see where it goes, its not rocket science, or is it. And what if they're not ready for that yet? You know as well as I do that the 'well-meaning; old players will then tell them to get out of the NPC corp and form a 1-man corp because they'll save a lot of money in taxes... It is never a good idea to introduce something in an MMO that you KNOW will reduce social interaction. It goes against the whole concept of an MMO in fact.... Whatever the real problem is (CCP still haven't told us exactly WHAT the underlying problem is...), there are better solutions that'll get MORE players currently in NPC corp into REAL player corp, not just 1-man ones.... Note that I'm absolutely not AGAINST players getting out of NPC corp, but I think that doing so should be done in a way that benefits BOTH the players, AND the game, not be detrimental to both! Try to look further than your own nose, please! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:55:00 - [592] Originally by: baltec1 As I said before it is about time you solo monkies coughed up for your protection, now we are more equal. Show us on this doll where the solo monkies touched you.
BeyondRelief	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:56:00 - [593] Terrible Idea by CCP
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:58:00 - [594] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: baltec1 As I said before it is about time you solo monkies coughed up for your protection, now we are more equal. Show us on this doll where the solo monkies touched you. Here, here and round there. They were spider monkies
Hamshoe	Posted - 2009.09.22 15:01:00 - [595] Originally by: baltec1 Works the both ways boyo. I pay taxes for my corps services yet your too good to pay taxes for the services provided for you? Actually, it doesn't. You choose[/i to pay those taxes in return for that whole list of advantages. We'll assume you understood the choice you made. A player in an NPC corp gives up those advantages for the lack of wardecs and no taxes. You choose, and now you're apparently not so satisfied with how your choice stacks up and feel folks should pay a similar tax rate [i]without those advantages. It's not the same at all. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.22 15:01:00 - [596] Do you think that by CCP making this change you'll hate us any less? Do you believe this will make you happier? Will this make you less envious of us? I think not. I think in a few months you'll still be bashing and trashing mission runners with even more zeal.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.22 15:04:00 - [597] Originally by: Hamshoe Originally by: baltec1 Works the both ways boyo. I pay taxes for my corps services yet your too good to pay taxes for the services provided for you? Actually, it doesn't. You choose[/i to pay those taxes in return for that whole list of advantages. We'll assume you understood the choice you made. A player in an NPC corp gives up those advantages for the lack of wardecs and no taxes. You choose, and now you're apparently not so satisfied with how your choice stacks up and feel folks should pay a similar tax rate [i]without those advantages. It's not the same at all. And now CCP have fixed it so that you now pay for your immunity to wardecs. Seems fair to me since all of my stuff can be destroyed by a war dec. You now have a negetive to go along with that positive.
Daemonspirit An Android Lust	Posted - 2009.09.22 15:08:00 - [598] Originally by: Hythloday Edited by: Hythloday on 22/09/2009 14:33:36 Originally by: Julian Lynq Originally by: Hythloday you: the change is great I: the change doesn¦t fullfill the goal because {...} you: why is it bad if a change doesn¦t fullfill the goal ? I: here is why {...} you: but the change fullfills the goal Me: Pretty much everyone who hasn't been in a newb corp for 2 years likes this idea. You: Well I don't like it and it won't work. Me: Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it won't work You: But it won't work because it only amounts to about 5% loss of income that won't motivate anyone to move into a player corp Me: If it's so inconsequential why is there so much whining? You: Because it doesn't address the underlying causes of the problems we have Me: Its impossible to address the underlying causes of problems in MMOs because so much stuff is built on them. The only practical course of action is to address the symptoms, or make a new game. You: <A synopses of a conversation that apparently happened in your imagination.> #1 - Not everyone likes this change. I think its stupid, silly and will not address the issue the GM posted as the GOAL. #2 - What are the symptoms as you see them? Lets define the problem. completely glossing over the fact that we haven't identified that there is a problem. At least to my satisfaction... ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Mikayla Grey Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.22 15:18:00 - [599] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Do you think that by CCP making this change you'll hate us any less? Do you believe this will make you happier? Will this make you less envious of us? I think not. I think in a few months you'll still be bashing and trashing mission runners with even more zeal. Missions need major change to turn mission running into a profession where you need to compete with other players like everything else in EVE. Then we can talk about a river of tears.
Hamshoe	Posted - 2009.09.22 15:21:00 - [600] Originally by: baltec1 And now CCP have fixed it so that you now pay for your immunity to wardecs. Seems fair to me since all of my stuff can be destroyed by a war dec. You now have a negetive to go along with that positive. Without any of the other benefits. You know, the "positives" that caused you to choose to go into a player corp in the first place? They obviously already outweigh the immunity to wardecs, unless you made a bad choice. Like I said, you're apparently unhappy with your choice, but rather than adjust that you'll choose to penalize others so you can feel more competative. It's not at all the same thing, it's catering to jealousy. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?



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