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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.31 05:29:00 -
[211]
quite correct eve is mad Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.31 05:55:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Vadimik on 31/10/2009 06:01:45
Originally by: CCP Abathur
That Moros issue...
We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3.
With drone bonus the way it is (i.e. +50%/lvl), moros has a role. Now you want to strip moros off that role, even though moros has had it ever since RMR and it's even mentioned in the ship description? Well, imo, it's a bad idea. Mostly because making all dreads "on par" turns into making all dreads "the same". And "compensating" drone bonus nerf with turrets buff only adds insult to injury: moros is stripped off it's role ok, and, instead of gaining a unique new role, it's just given some extra turret dps to make it look like an even trade for EFT warriors.
Following this logic, the next logical thing to do wound be to nerf dominix drones, cause it sure is better with drones than all other tier I BS's it's supposed to be "on par" with. And don't forget to nerf scorpion ECM next, EWar ship among BS's is obviously not "on par".
Now for the "constructive feedback": either keep moros's role intact (maybe lower it's turret DPS a tiny bit to make the tradeoff more obvious), or invent some new unique role for a moros and adjust bonuses accordingly.
Edit: spelling.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.31 10:47:00 -
[213]
the only other bonus i can see for the moros is a 100% speed bonus. Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Succubine
Caldari Succubine Dynasty Technologies
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Posted - 2009.10.31 16:28:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Vadimik or invent some new unique role for a moros and adjust bonuses accordingly.
Originally by: HeliosGal the only other bonus i can see for the moros is a 100% speed bonus.
I believe Moros with reduced MWD max cap penalty would make more sense for a Gallente ship. This would be in line with the Revelation's AFK pos killing role, the Phoenix's can't really switch damage type role, and the Naglfar's takes longest to train for role.
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gorak cz
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.31 16:31:00 -
[215]
Heeyyy, revelation got more range I feel discriminated !!! *aarghwhaarlbl*
I think all should have same stats same size and same facecolour. Lets rename them to standard f@ggernaut so we would all have better, gender and race balanced world to live in.
sorry couldnt help myself Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator |
H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.01 10:00:00 -
[216]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
That Moros issue...
We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3.
As always, numbers are subject to change and we look forward to your constructive feedback.[/quote
as a moros pilot with maxed skills, i kind of feel a little cheated. gallente are ment to be drone kings in eve, that is the role through out there ships. now i feel a little gimpped by the 20% per level damage, the reason i have gal dread 5 is for the 250% drone bonses. wouldnt have wasted ú15 training that level 5 otherwise.
ive been in a few large cap fleet fights and the only reason i got my place on as many kill mails is because of my drones. cos when a system gets over 800 peopel all shooting each other, we all know that extra 15% turret damage wont be worth S H I T when its a slide show of red turrets and lagging mods. so if you wish to continue screwing up the moros role make it 25% damage 25% range to drone control. least i wouldnt have to grab the lube after dom to make me feel a little better from another ccp shafting
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.01 10:08:00 -
[217]
perhaps its time to introduce pirate faction dreadnaughts the serpentis would surley give a speed bonus in line with the vindicator. Surley the pirate factions we see in the level 5 missions match up Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.01 10:42:00 -
[218]
Of all the dreadnoughts currently in existence, the VERSATILE(NOT GIMPPED) Moros possesses perhaps the greatest capacity to fend off smaller hostiles by itself while concentrating on its primary capital target. By virtue of its protean array of point defense capabilities - including a drone bay capable of fielding vast amounts of drones to safeguard the behemoth - the Moros is single-handedly capable of turning the tide in a fleet battle.
Quoted to remind CCP Abathur of the intended role of the Moros
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.01 14:05:00 -
[219]
If CCP is reducing the bonus moros gets, the bonus should also apply to range, so that moros can use it's drones against other capitals. That way it's bonus will be applyable in capital fights, as well as when fending off smaller ships, and it can be counted as part of the ship's dps. Fix Destroyers |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2009.11.01 20:02:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Pohbis on 01/11/2009 20:05:05
Originally by: CCP Abathur Missiles
Next up, within the next week, Citadel Torpedoes and launchers will see their stats change dramatically and we will introduce Citadel Cruise Missiles and launchers. Phoenix pilots, rejoice! While these changes will not hit SiSi for another week or so, we can give you the the current working stats:
Old Value / New Value
Citadel Torp Launcher I RoF: 48 seconds / 33 seconds
Citadel Torpedoes Flight Time: 20 seconds / 7.5 seconds Base Velocity: 2750 / 3500 Base Damage: 1800 / 2000
Citadel Cruise Launcher I RoF: 48 seconds
Citadel Cruise Missiles Flight Time: 20 seconds Base Velocity: 4250 Base Damage: 1800
How can you expect the average EVE player to understand issues with missiles, when even CCP forgets about the 2 things called explosion radius and explosion velocity?
You've already shown us with the current rockets that you're pretty much oblivious to these stats. Please take a moment and actually look a them when doing these changes.
Also, I'm concerned about the "if it affects torps, it will affect cruises"-comment. Don't forget that this isn't how it works currently. Yes, I'm looking at "Guided Missile Precision".
If you insist on keeping the "2 seperate skills for torps/cruises" approach for XL launcher weapons, even tho it would be the only XL weapon type to have this, don't forget that cruises are affected by this skill. Torps are not... and don't feakin' pre-nerf the XL cruises because of this. They have faster explosion valocity and smaller explosion radius by design.
The only way Phoenix pilots are going to rejoice is if they're actually getting a boost with these changes. Currently it looks like they're going to have to train for another capital weapon system, which has similar stats to what they have now.
A torp-fitted Phoenix will be a rare sight.
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2009.11.03 02:15:00 -
[221]
Is POS spam is replaced with STOP spam and STOP's have no bubbly shield then Torps, Blasters, Pulses and Auto-cannons already have a good sized buff coming their way.
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s73v3n2k
Caldari UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.03 18:45:00 -
[222]
citadel cruise missiles are a nice idea for caldari dread pilots the extra skill is a bad idea. The big question is why ? just rename the current citadel torp skill to just citadel missile skill and then it keeps everything in line with the other capital weapons. Either that or release an extra skill for capital beams, capital rails and capital arties and be done with it.
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Kreonny
Minmatar R.U.S.H Red Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.04 16:28:00 -
[223]
6*2500: Optimal-20km Falloff-19km (Now on test).
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.05 06:28:00 -
[224]
Edited by: Blazde on 05/11/2009 06:36:16 Looks like it's all-change, even long range weapons too now. The short range weapons have some of their characteristic variations back (they still look odd to me ), long range have some tweaks to optimal and falloff (Giga Beam looks range impotent at first glance), both have heavily reduced tracking, titans have lost their -50% tracking penalty (Edit: Ragna still has it in it's description at least), siege module now has only -50% tracking which I think would make in-siege tracking with long-range weapons three times what it is now. I'll hold off serious criticism until we get the reasoning, and the missile changes.
Abathur, don't forget if you're changing the rof on the short-range turrets you prob want to change the Heat Damage stats to compensate. Plus the projectile weapons already had much lower heat output which was presumably because the Nag originally relied on 4 weapons instead of 3. Now it gets the majority of it's dps from projectiles (and you'd be silly to overload it's missiles in some scenarios) the split weapons are more of an advantage than a disadvantage heat wise, and with the Ragnarok using projectiles too now they need the same heat-per-second as hybrids and lasers. _
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Hot Tubes
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.05 21:28:00 -
[225]
Has the Moros' drone bonus been brought back up to 50%?
It has been on the test server anyway:
Linkage
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sawtell69
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Posted - 2009.11.05 22:13:00 -
[226]
Hmm - I like that fact that ccp is trying to improve and keep the game up to date but for the amount of changes and un-sure ideas towards the moros, is killing it. Keep it how it is bugger off the nerf..
My thoughts.
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Yaay
Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.11.06 15:12:00 -
[227]
I don't really get why the rail damage mod and the blaster damage mod are so close to each other.
By boosting the rail, you've virtually assured us that nobody will use blasters still.
It's somewhere in the range of 22% more damage for blasters, but the trade off in range is so huge, why would anyone use them. Just from a practical standpoint, would you rather shoot a tower at 30km right on the edge of the shields with the risk of bumps moving you out of optimal, or would you rather shoot the tower at 60km with Antimatter w/o fear of losing optimal performance.
Plus the added benefit of rails adapting to hotdrop situations better.
Blasters need more damage. I would increase the mode to at least 9, maybe even 9.5 which would give it closer to the 40% typical advantage blasters have over rails.
Or ya know, ya could redefine dreads totally, but that's just my opinion.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Cheekything
Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.11.07 02:20:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Hot Tubes Has the Moros' drone bonus been brought back up to 50%?
It has been on the test server anyway:
Linkage
Did they ever change the description in the first place?
But hopefully they have and ditto on Yaays remark on the blasters give more damage over rails, the benefit of more tracking when hitting still targets whilst being still is a tad stupid.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.07 19:05:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 07/11/2009 19:05:10 From the titan thread:
Originally by: CynoNet Two Edited by: CynoNet Two on 07/11/2009 18:30:36
Originally by: Zeveron I dont know how complex this is, but I know that I cannot fit 7 launchers to have comperable dps with ALL other titans.
You may want to run through your figures again there champ. As things stand on sisi right now, the Leviathan does more damage with 6 launchers than the avatar and erebus do with 6 turrets.
Originally by: Serena Ku I noticed the turreted titans' damage bonuses are reduced to 200% per level, and the tracking penality was removed from the description. Looks like a fair compromise. What is the official statement regarding these changes?
Seleene has reverted his changes back to their previously silly levels.
Longer range XL guns have had their damage mods dropped by around 10-20%, including the 1000mm rail which has been rolled back to remove the recent 15% buff. Titans had their weapon bonuses reduced (avatar lost its cap use bonus, erebus lost 25% damage per level, levi dropped from -10% rof to -5%). All XL guns have had their base tracking nerfed by 50-80%. The tracking penalty on siege mods was dropped to -50% to compensate. Titans will struggle to hit sub-caps and dreads will only be useful for shooting structures and dying to supercaps.
Biggest BS blob wins every time.
So what's the plan for capital weapons now?
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Cheekything
Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.11.09 17:26:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 07/11/2009 19:05:10 From the titan thread:
Originally by: CynoNet Two Edited by: CynoNet Two on 07/11/2009 18:30:36
Originally by: Zeveron I dont know how complex this is, but I know that I cannot fit 7 launchers to have comperable dps with ALL other titans.
You may want to run through your figures again there champ. As things stand on sisi right now, the Leviathan does more damage with 6 launchers than the avatar and erebus do with 6 turrets.
Originally by: Serena Ku I noticed the turreted titans' damage bonuses are reduced to 200% per level, and the tracking penality was removed from the description. Looks like a fair compromise. What is the official statement regarding these changes?
Seleene has reverted his changes back to their previously silly levels.
Longer range XL guns have had their damage mods dropped by around 10-20%, including the 1000mm rail which has been rolled back to remove the recent 15% buff. Titans had their weapon bonuses reduced (avatar lost its cap use bonus, erebus lost 25% damage per level, levi dropped from -10% rof to -5%). All XL guns have had their base tracking nerfed by 50-80%. The tracking penalty on siege mods was dropped to -50% to compensate. Titans will struggle to hit sub-caps and dreads will only be useful for shooting structures and dying to supercaps.
Biggest BS blob wins every time.
So what's the plan for capital weapons now?
Reprocess them and stick Large guns on instead 5X bonus with 3 rails shouldn't be so bad
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.11.11 09:10:00 -
[231]
I did some number-crunching with numbers reported from SiSi - if you notice mistakes / wrong numbers, please let me know.
<tl;dr> Naglfar > Phoenix >>>>>>> Revelation > Moros. </tl;dr>
All dreads with maxed skills, 3*damage mod, 5*Bouncer II, short-range weapons and ammo:
Phoenix (new kinetic torps): 8547 DPS (8285 DPS from torps), 37km range. Naglfar (new EMP/PP/Fusion ammo, new torps): 8470 DPS, 12.5km optimal and 24km falloff for guns (6202 DPS from them), 37km range for torps (2005 DPS from them). Almost full damage type choice. Moros (with 20%/level to drones): 6941 DPS (6416 DPS from guns), 15km optimal and 11km falloff. Revelation: 6485 DPS (6223 DPS from guns), 20km optimal and 6km falloff.
In other words, the ships not needing cap to fire, able to pick the damage type they do (even if only somewhat with Phoenix) _and_ better able to fit damage mods do about 1/4-1/3 more damage than the ships that need cap and are stuck with the damage types and which gimp their tank worse when fitting damage mods. No, this is not balanced.
All dreads with maxed skills, 3*damage mod, 5*Bouncer II, long-range weapons and shortest-range ammo (if no changes to arty DPS and rail/beam RoF same as in TQ):
Phoenix (new kinetic cruises): 3671 DPS from missiles + 263 DPS from drones = 3934 DPS total, theoretical range 157km. Naglfar (new arty ammo, new cruises): 4535 DPS (3443 from arty, 1092 from missiles) + 263 DPS from drones = 4798 DPS total, 45km optimal + 87.5km falloff for arty, 157km range for cruises. Moros (with 20%/level to drones): 3182 DPS + 525 DPS from drones = 3707 DPS total, 60km optimal + 30.6km falloff (60km max range for drones) Revelation: 3743 DPS + 263 DPS from drones = 4006 DPS total, 45km optimal + 28km falloff
I don't know if Naglfar will be badly enough hampered by the long-range ammo change that Moros/Revelation will be competitive at extreme-range sniping, but even if that was a viable tactic to use, the balance seems pretty bad here, too. -- Gradient forum |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.11 12:30:00 -
[232]
When comparing ranges, don't forget that you can easily extend the turret optimal ranges by 30% with a med-slot module or a little less with a low-slot module. The ranges for missiles are final (except implants) if you don't plan to do something stupid, such as fitting velocity/flight-time rigs on a dread.
If your numbers are right, the Moros sucks and desperately needs his 50% out of siege drone damage bonus back. On the long run, there can't be 3 turret dreads with substantial differences, when everything should be balanced, unless they have some special side-features, which justify certain unbalances. The feature of the Moros, being able to fight sub-capitals effectively out of siege, has been removed, now it must have comparable damage/range stats as the rest of the dreads ... that's rather dull and removes a lot of the racial diversity, but apparently that's the new direction the devs are heading, if they nerf the drone bonus of the Moros.
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Mike Yass
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:20:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Vadimik Edited by: Vadimik on 31/10/2009 06:01:45
Originally by: CCP Abathur
That Moros issue...
We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3.
With drone bonus the way it is (i.e. +50%/lvl), moros has a role. Now you want to strip moros off that role, even though moros has had it ever since RMR and it's even mentioned in the ship description? Well, imo, it's a bad idea. Mostly because making all dreads "on par" turns into making all dreads "the same". And "compensating" drone bonus nerf with turrets buff only adds insult to injury: moros is stripped off it's role ok, and, instead of gaining a unique new role, it's just given some extra turret dps to make it look like an even trade for EFT warriors.
Following this logic, the next logical thing to do wound be to nerf dominix drones, cause it sure is better with drones than all other tier I BS's it's supposed to be "on par" with. And don't forget to nerf scorpion ECM next, EWar ship among BS's is obviously not "on par".
Now for the "constructive feedback": either keep moros's role intact (maybe lower it's turret DPS a tiny bit to make the tradeoff more obvious), or invent some new unique role for a moros and adjust bonuses accordingly.
Edit: spelling.
This. The moros is a lousy dread for shooting towers and shooting caps. Its only redeeming feature is it's ability to damage out of siege.
If anything, the moros needs a subtle buff. Despite CCP's flawed logic, the moros in no way infringes on the role of the carrier. While it might be problematic in lowsec, that is more a function of lousy aggression mechanics.
To get the moros where it needs to be, it should keep the 15% hybrid damage bonus and the 50% drone bonus, but also add a third sieged targeting slot. This would the moros much more effective in hotdrops, where at times target calling is limited by lock time, as well as making it a lot easier to mange. This would also allow it to more effectively leverage its drones against subcaps in siege, which it can barely do in an effective manner now. It affects none of the in siege properties.
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Fuujin
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:48:00 -
[234]
So CCP...any reason that citadel torps have twice their current lousy explosion radius? And the new "cruise" missiles have WORSE than present torp's radius?
Fun fact, with max skills and a T2 rig, citadel cruise can maybe do half damage on large pos mods!
POS shooting is still going to be a large part of the game in Dominion. Please fix citadel missiles to be able to hit static targets. Thanks!
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Hot Tubes
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 00:45:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba ...the Moros sucks and desperately needs his 50% out of siege drone damage bonus back...
As I said just earlier, on SiSi right now the Moros has 50% drone bonus per level.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.11.12 10:31:00 -
[236]
Those numbers are well too high, especially for the Nag and Phoenix but also in general.
Not that short range guns should not outdamage long range guns bit a margin to make up for reduced range but together with the removal of pos as prime targets (neither stations, nor HUBs nor (super)capitals have a shield perimeter like a pos preventing dreads from being point blank on them) this seems way over the top.
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Captain Plumb
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.11.12 14:09:00 -
[237]
In my opinion, if the Moros is getting it's drone bonus nerfed, then ideally CCP needs to let the moros use sentries and other drones above the max of 45k, so it can actually use it's bonus to the full extent. As for the explosion radii on the new citadel cruises and the changes to citadel torps? You might want to look that one over again CCP and ask yourselves why the already borderline phoenix needs to be nerfed into the ground even more.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:20:00 -
[238]
SiSi Naglfar:
Quote: Minmatar Dreadnought Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Capital Projectile damage per level 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level.
:-(
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Seneram
Caldari B'haxed Productions The Dominium
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:48:00 -
[239]
Originally by: AL G0RE
Originally by: Eheufaucan
Gallente:
56,3 + 12,5 km Standard 28,1 + 12,5 km Short 90,0 + 12,5 km Long (75,0 + 30,0 km with T2 Warden Sentry)
Only way you will be able to fully use that drone range if by filling your high-slots with drone link augs... other wise you are capped out at something like 50km due to the control range
Sentrys are snipers so you get about 65 KM with them in firing range. ------------------------------------------------- PewPew |
Oedus Caro
Caldari Cross Roads
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Posted - 2009.11.13 05:08:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow I did some number-crunching with numbers reported from SiSi - if you notice mistakes / wrong numbers, please let me know.
All dreads with maxed skills, 3*damage mod, 5*Bouncer II, short-range weapons and ammo:
Phoenix (new kinetic torps): 8547 DPS (8285 DPS from torps), 37km range. Naglfar (new EMP/PP/Fusion ammo, new torps): 8470 DPS, 12.5km optimal and 24km falloff for guns (6202 DPS from them), 37km range for torps (2005 DPS from them). Almost full damage type choice. Moros (with 20%/level to drones): 6941 DPS (6416 DPS from guns), 15km optimal and 11km falloff. Revelation: 6485 DPS (6223 DPS from guns), 20km optimal and 6km falloff.
In other words, the ships not needing cap to fire, able to pick the damage type they do (even if only somewhat with Phoenix) _and_ better able to fit damage mods do about 1/4-1/3 more damage than the ships that need cap and are stuck with the damage types and which gimp their tank worse when fitting damage mods. No, this is not balanced.
All dreads with maxed skills, 3*damage mod, 5*Bouncer II, long-range weapons and shortest-range ammo (if no changes to arty DPS and rail/beam RoF same as in TQ):
Phoenix (new kinetic cruises): 3671 DPS from missiles + 263 DPS from drones = 3934 DPS total, theoretical range 157km. Naglfar (new arty ammo, new cruises): 4535 DPS (3443 from arty, 1092 from missiles) + 263 DPS from drones = 4798 DPS total, 45km optimal + 87.5km falloff for arty, 157km range for cruises. Moros (with 20%/level to drones): 3182 DPS + 525 DPS from drones = 3707 DPS total, 60km optimal + 30.6km falloff (60km max range for drones) Revelation: 3743 DPS + 263 DPS from drones = 4006 DPS total, 45km optimal + 28km falloff
I don't know if Naglfar will be badly enough hampered by the long-range ammo change that Moros/Revelation will be competitive at extreme-range sniping, but even if that was a viable tactic to use, the balance seems pretty bad here, too.
Barely more than two weeks to go now and crap like this is still being touted by CCP as "balanced" - my oh my. Pretty planets aside, I have a bad feeling this patch is going to be a proper debacle, CCP. Get with it, SoonÖ.
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