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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)

CCP Abathur	Posted - 2009.10.10 14:28:00 - [1] Turrets Part of the static update yesterday were a few changes to capital turrets. For a long time now (okay, ever since they were introduced), due to their stats it was hard to justify fitting the 'short range' XL turrets over their counterparts. Being unable to hit a large starbase tower within optimal range of their most damaging ammo was just one of the issues. We've taken a look at these weapons and have started by making a few initial changes. Old Value / New Value Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I Optimal Range: 12 / 45 Falloff: 20 / 10 Damage Mod: 7 / 8 Tracking: 0.02165 / 0.010825 6 x 2500mm Repeating Artillery I Optimal Range: 8 / 45 Falloff: 32 / 15 Damage Mod: 5.39 / 6.2 Tracking: 0.0216 / 0.0108 Dual Giga Pulse Laser I Optimal Range: 40 / 50 Falloff: 16 / 5 Tracking: 0.01688 / 0.010128 Missiles Next up, within the next week, Citadel Torpedoes and launchers will see their stats change dramatically and we will introduce Citadel Cruise Missiles and launchers. Phoenix pilots, rejoice! While these changes will not hit SiSi for another week or so, we can give you the the current working stats: Old Value / New Value Citadel Torp Launcher I RoF: 48 seconds / 33 seconds Citadel Torpedoes Flight Time: 20 seconds / 7.5 seconds Base Velocity: 2750 / 3500 Base Damage: 1800 / 2000 Citadel Cruise Launcher I RoF: 48 seconds Citadel Cruise Missiles Flight Time: 20 seconds Base Velocity: 4250 Base Damage: 1800 That Moros issue... We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3. As always, numbers are subject to change and we look forward to your constructive feedback.

c0rn1 Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.10.10 14:33:00 - [2] Edited by: c0rn1 on 10/10/2009 14:34:54 cough Why are matari weapons now equal to the gallentian one? we could just get more falloff :( like OR: 30 FO: 30? :( x x x x x x x x x x x x x x Life's a waste of time ...
Lucas Tigh United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.10.10 14:41:00 - [3] Edited by: Lucas Tigh on 10/10/2009 14:42:50 Originally by: CCP Abathur That Moros issue... We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3. Seriouspost: Sweet mother of Jesus, CCP, that's a good compromise. Thanks. ------------------------------------- CCP, make me a winner. I win.
fab24 Gallente Order of Anarchy The Laughing Men	Posted - 2009.10.10 15:40:00 - [4] Originally by: CCP Abathur Turrets Part of the static update yesterday were a few changes to capital turrets. For a long time now (okay, ever since they were introduced), due to their stats it was hard to justify fitting the 'short range' XL turrets over their counterparts. Being unable to hit a large starbase tower within optimal range of their most damaging ammo was just one of the issues. We've taken a look at these weapons and have started by making a few initial changes. Old Value / New Value Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I Optimal Range: 12 / 45 Falloff: 20 / 10 Damage Mod: 7 / 8 Tracking: 0.02165 / 0.010825 6 x 2500mm Repeating Artillery I Optimal Range: 8 / 45 Falloff: 32 / 15 Damage Mod: 5.39 / 6.2 Tracking: 0.0216 / 0.0108 Dual Giga Pulse Laser I Optimal Range: 40 / 50 Falloff: 16 / 5 Tracking: 0.01688 / 0.010128 Missiles Next up, within the next week, Citadel Torpedoes and launchers will see their stats change dramatically and we will introduce Citadel Cruise Missiles and launchers. Phoenix pilots, rejoice! While these changes will not hit SiSi for another week or so, we can give you the the current working stats: Old Value / New Value Citadel Torp Launcher I RoF: 48 seconds / 33 seconds Citadel Torpedoes Flight Time: 20 seconds / 7.5 seconds Base Velocity: 2750 / 3500 Base Damage: 1800 / 2000 Citadel Cruise Launcher I RoF: 48 seconds Citadel Cruise Missiles Flight Time: 20 seconds Base Velocity: 4250 Base Damage: 1800 That Moros issue... We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3. As always, numbers are subject to change and we look forward to your constructive feedback. Can't you stop nerfing this goddamn moros ? learn to let stuff how it is already. Trolling is not permitted on the forum - we encourage threads that discuss issues in a constructive and spirited atmosphere. < lmfao...
Zhull Amarr Patagonia Holdings	Posted - 2009.10.10 15:53:00 - [5] Edited by: Zhull on 10/10/2009 15:55:07 Originally by: CCP Abathur Turrets That Moros issue... We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3. Only to railguns or were blasters also increased? (it is hard to log in to Sisi to check now). Also just remove the bonus and make it turrets comparable with the Rev. 50% Hitpoints per level means that our drones can suck up any bomb without hitting armor, with 20% they will pop like the ones in the Domi. I was expecting short range weapons to have 100km optimals and long range weapons moved to 200km optimals. That will leave you with 50 and 100km respectively with short range ammo. Problem is that you need at least 45/50km optimals with short range ammos to siege poses in a decent sized cap fleet. Having 45km optimals would force you to use iridium on short range guns to hit reliably from those ranges dropping damage bellow what long range weapons with short range ammos do. If those ranges are too much for Titans just add a penalty to them but in a dread that has to siege for 10 minutes to do any damage they should be fine.
Areo Hotah Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.10.10 16:17:00 - [6] What will be the pre-reqs for Citadel Cruise? If cruise V, another nerf for the Nag: I now have to train a 3rd capital weapon, where as the Rev and Moros do with one (if you mention drones: I have to train them for the Nag as well, and I can use them on many sub-capital ships.)
Stealthbug	Posted - 2009.10.10 16:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Areo Hotah What will be the pre-reqs for Citadel Cruise? If cruise V, another nerf for the Nag: I now have to train a 3rd capital weapon, where as the Rev and Moros do with one (if you mention drones: I have to train them for the Nag as well, and I can use them on many sub-capital ships.) How the hell is that a nerf? You can still use torpedoes cant you? >_> Just cuz you have to skill up for the "new weapon" doesnt mean that your ship got nerfed.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.10.10 16:37:00 - [8] Quote: Next up, within the next week, Citadel Torpedoes and launchers will see their stats change dramatically and we will introduce Citadel Cruise Missiles and launchers. Phoenix pilots, rejoice! While these changes will not hit SiSi for another week or so, we can give you the the current working stats: very nice. Quote: That Moros issue... We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3. That's not keeping it intact. That's nerfing it to where you pretty much cant use them anymore. Now it's pretty much a pretend revelation but not quite. Yaay for destroying the moros. Please leave the drones right where they are. Nerf the guns however you like. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Cheekything Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.10.10 16:43:00 - [9] Originally by: CCP Abathur That Moros issue... We've decided to keep its drone bonus intact but reduce it from 50% per level to 20% per level. To compensate, the Dual 1000mm Railgun I has had its base damage mod increased by 15%, from 5.5 to 6.3. As always, numbers are subject to change and we look forward to your constructive feedback. I know this effects a lot of people who are in the Moros already. Firstly training 56+ days for Gallente Dread 5 doing the same as a Dominix with level 5 Battleship != cool. Most people only really train Battleship 5 because of the mega getting the sexy 25% bonus to tracking and to use the Moros. So a 20% bonus just really isn't cool unless you want to give a drone control range to go with which by all means would make it good. Failing that remove the bonus totally and give use 5% damage and 5% tracking which would be very valuable with the new turret changes. Lastly failing all that just leave the Moros alone ...
Ragel Tropxe The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.10 16:43:00 - [10] what plans do you have for a/ exchanging current citadel torp launchers b/ the cost of the new skillbook that may be needed (citadel cruise missiles) issues 1. Cost and time - another skillbook and another skill to train 2. The current use of torps is more akin to the cruise missiles you seem to propose - if you exchange current torp launchers for new torp launchers then Phoenix and Dread Pilots will need to buy new cap modules to fit (80M isk or so) to use their Dread at long range. 3. what about the explosion radius of the two missile types? - I assume you will author the citadel cruise missiles to have a better explosion radius than the current citadel torps? Give that you may now be asking Phoenix and Naglfar pilots to train another skill - there needs to be some compensation in terms of usage advantage to offset this.

Khefron GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Khefron on 10/10/2009 17:14:13 What are the explosion radius and explosion velocities for the new Siege and Cruise missiles? Will phoenixes finally be able to shoot pos mods effectively? Originally by: Ragel Tropxe what plans do you have for a/ exchanging current citadel torp launchers b/ the cost of the new skillbook that may be needed (citadel cruise missiles) issues 1. Cost and time - another skillbook and another skill to train 2. The current use of torps is more akin to the cruise missiles you seem to propose - if you exchange current torp launchers for new torp launchers then Phoenix and Dread Pilots will need to buy new cap modules to fit (80M isk or so) to use their Dread at long range. 3. what about the explosion radius of the two missile types? - I assume you will author the citadel cruise missiles to have a better explosion radius than the current citadel torps? Give that you may now be asking Phoenix and Naglfar pilots to train another skill - there needs to be some compensation in terms of usage advantage to offset this. shut up I like these changes just fine.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Ragel Tropxe what plans do you have for a/ exchanging current citadel torp launchers b/ the cost of the new skillbook that may be needed (citadel cruise missiles) a/ Much like every other change, as Torps are still useable, you aren't getting anything. And why would you? b/ You are going to buy them on the market, seeded by NPCs. If you're going to whine, at least try and only be halfway ****ed. Originally by:** CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Ragel Tropxe The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:21:00 - [13] Edited by: Ragel Tropxe on 10/10/2009 17:21:32 Edited by: Ragel Tropxe on 10/10/2009 17:20:52 my my touchy Goons, who would have thunk? If you check my previous posts on the subject of Citadel cruise missiles - youll see its something Ive been advocating for quite some time. All Im looking for is some clarification on how the changes are to be introduced, if you dont like the questions - ignore them - they arent meant for you (unless you work at CCP?)
xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Ragel Tropxe what plans do you have for Or they could just replace all existing torp launchers + skills with the cruise one...
Adam Ridgway Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:23:00 - [15] To Moros pilots, you just need to realize how broken the thing is currentlly on TQ... I think this fix is a fair compromise so please stop crying again, Moros has to be on line with other dreads. I guess this are the first changes, but more variability specially between Minmatar and Gallente would be nice, they are way to similar and they should follow the subcap theme. Also as someone else pointed out allready, take in mind ammo bonus/penalties; if you want people to use closest range ammo (Antimatter XL) it should be fairlly usable from at least 30km away.
xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Adam Ridgway To Moros pilots, you just need to realize how broken the thing is currentlly on TQ... I think this fix is a fair compromise so please stop crying again, Moros has to be on line with other dreads. Just because random pirates use them to camp low-sec stations with immunity does not make the ship broken - just the aggro mechanics which allow that. As it stands now, the Moros is the lowest dps dread with the most average EHP and a fairly weak tank. It could use another tweak to bring it on par for fleet work. Ideal options include: +10% tracking per level +20% drone control range per level (useful sentries!) +5% armour hitpoints per level
Etien Aldragoran DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:45:00 - [17] Originally by: xttz Originally by: Adam Ridgway To Moros pilots, you just need to realize how broken the thing is currentlly on TQ... I think this fix is a fair compromise so please stop crying again, Moros has to be on line with other dreads. Just because random pirates use them to camp low-sec stations with immunity does not make the ship broken - just the aggro mechanics which allow that. As it stands now, the Moros is the lowest dps dread with the most average EHP and a fairly weak tank. It could use another tweak to bring it on par for fleet work. Ideal options include: +10% tracking per level +20% drone control range per level (useful sentries!) +5% armour hitpoints per level I'm really agreeing with this post. I've cross-trained into a Rev since the Moros lacks in nearly all areas other than ratting capability. I would suggest a 25% bonus to control range per level and 20% bonus to sentry drone optimal range per level. A Moros might be close in capability to other dreads, but there's a huge falloff outside of 57-60km depending on your EWD level. Whoopdie doo if you raise the damage mod a wee bit after cutting down drone DPS by more than half. It means nothing if the engagement range is long.
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:52:00 - [18] Also let Moroses scoop drones from further than 2500. Or maybe give them little engines so they can return to you if they are supposed to be a part of your dread damage.
Peritas Inmortalis Gallente Peritas Inmortalis Corp	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:52:00 - [19] I think these new changes to the Phoenix are not compensated at all because the other Dreads can use short and long ammunition at any turret. But now in the Phoenix you haver to fit torpedo launchers or cruise launchers. The most acceptable is make an "mixet" Launcher that could put citadel torpedoes and cruisers, because if u are in a OP and the FC calls, long range ammo and you have fit torpedo launchers...... baaaad CCP Fail Consither that option Txs BTW FanFest was AWESOME
anheuser Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.10 17:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Cheekything Firstly training 56+ days for Gallente Dread 5 doing the same as a Dominix with level 5 Battleship != cool. Ah, I think you better go read the domi ship bonuses again. Quote: Most people only really train Battleship 5 because of the mega getting the sexy 25% bonus to tracking and to use the Moros. Eh? You mean people don't train BS V of any race simply because they don't want to max out their potential? Changes are pretty good. Nice tradeoffs here (says he as a max skilled Moros pilot). Will put the moros up in line now with the Rev and Naglfar in sniper config, which is good. And, like the Nag, the moros has some extra DPS when getting up close and personal (Sniper nags didn't bother with torps for the long range stuff). If my calcs are right, with one scripted tracking comp, that should give us an optimal of just shy of 30km when using AM, which is just a bit greater than the 27km of a large tower. We'd need to hug the shields for max DPS, but with one step up in ammo we could still maintain really nice DPS with optimal on a large tower at the usual 10-15km of the shields.

Fuujin GoonFleet	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:11:00 - [21] Reminder to CCP: Please include faction citadel cruises on release of Dominion, and not forget about the missile users (again) for a year. Thanks! Some fleshed out stats of the citadel cruises would be nice...are they affected by guided missile precision? Require cruise 5? What will the fitting requirements be? Also: your "current" base flight time for citadel torps is incorrect; it's 25 seconds, not 20.
Cadiz Caldari EXTERMINATUS. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:23:00 - [22] Digging the Moros change; it'll make it a lot more competitive in cap-on-cap engagements. Of course I already went and crosstrained for a Rev, but it's a good change regardless. Not sure how I feel about the heavily normalized short range turret stats, though. The extra range & usability is definitely a good thing, but...they're all so similar-looking now. ------ Exterminatus! "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Aoa Lux Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:44:00 - [23] Assumption: people are using the moros to hump stations and abuse the aggro mechanics. Because of this, it is being nerfed. Solution: can we just rebuild it into a giant megathron instead of a giant dominix? 1) Currently it already has issues in fleet combat (unless you run a lolfit and waste a mid on a drone mod) because a large amount of it's damage is useless outside of 57-60km. 2) As already mentioned, the 50% hp/lvl was nice because drones could survive bombs. Drones have always had the weakness of being a "destructible weapon" but for such a large portion of this ship's damage output to be easily destructible -and- useless outside 60km... Change it please.
fab24 Gallente Order of Anarchy The Laughing Men	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:02:00 - [24] Just about the new ion siege, it sucks balls, the range suck atm, with the change I don't think it will make them used more... I've rarely seen moros with blasters on TQ... Some for station camping, but that's all they are used for, the range is just pure **** on them, and people use railguns over blasters for capital/pos bashing. Trolling is not permitted on the forum - we encourage threads that discuss issues in a constructive and spirited atmosphere. < lmfao...
Omnituens	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:19:00 - [25] Edited by: Omnituens on 10/10/2009 20:18:54 I too would like to know about the skillbook for the citadel cruise missiles. Are you planning on changing Citadel Torps skill to Citadel Launcher Skill, and it a prereq for both, or is it a new skill book? The other XL guns have 1 skill, but then again the Large ones have torp/cruise separate, so I suppose it could go either way. I'm fine with either result as I still get to throw missiles, so what if I do have to train up another skill a bit. Other possibility is Cit Launchers is primary, and then Torp/Cruise secondary as per launcher. or ammo.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:39:00 - [26] GOONFLEET DOT COM LEAK: "i'm unironically impressed with the changes ccp are making" "Well that just about takes care of every complaint I have about dreads" Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
Xing Fey	Posted - 2009.10.10 21:00:00 - [27] Edited by: Xing Fey on 10/10/2009 21:02:25 Edited by: Xing Fey on 10/10/2009 21:01:58 It'd be nice if the siege module granted all dreads +100% drone damage/level. Would retain the moros' WTFDRONES (make it better even, at least in siege) but allow other droens to at least compete. And on the autocannons,while the other SR weapons are nearly nonexistent i've actualy seen these a semi-fair deal. I think you're making them too much like blasters TBH. More falloff+tracking and less optimal would be cool, i think.
Nikuno	Posted - 2009.10.10 21:06:00 - [28] Well it's now becoming very hard to tell the difference between short range turret based dreads based on their damage or versatility. Homogeneity has conquered all it seems for offense. That leaves defence. Back to using the revelation instead of the moros, I still see nothing here to take me back to a moros. Drone range with 4 highs fitted with 3 guns and a seige mod is still a joke, and I fail to see how improving the rail damage modifier offsets this. The drones are only useful up-close, which means when I'm using blasters in the scenario you lead with, so how does a boost to rails help here? And then of course there's the matter of the increase to rail damage largely mitigating the modification to the blasters damage. Unless I happen to be shooting a large pos with my nose wedged against the shields, I won't be using anti-matter. In most cap fights my ranges will be longer than this, so I probably won't be using anything below lead. I'm still better off with the rails now they have this bonus and using anti matter and retaining the option for longer range engaements in my fit. Honestly, can't you work through a coordinated approach? There is no sense to what you've done, the 2 changes are completely self-defeating, and if what was wanted was a sniping moros we already have one; it just happens to be called a revelation.
Adam Ridgway Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.10 21:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Nikuno Honestly, can't you work through a coordinated approach? One solution to giving porupose to both things is make tracking difference huge so short range weapons can for example hit BS while long range weapons can't udner any circunstances.
kwix Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.10 22:28:00 - [30] I've been flying the moros in fleet engagements for two years now. It's never really been that overpowered/broken in those situations. It also serves a valuable role as it's one of the only dreads that can fend off small attackers reasonably...which is what is stated in the role description of the Moros. I think there's little doubt here that this nerf is entirely about the station hugging and low-sec usage of the Moros and it really seems unfair to cripple the one nice bonus of the Moros because a small percentage of people are abusing it. Find a way to address the abuse. The other real concern/disappointment is that I think we will actually see more dread vs. dread engagements in dominion which would be the first time the Moros would really have had a chance to be fun and to shine...so this seems doubly cruel. I do like some of the compromises suggested here. I can tolerate the damage output bonus, but I think nerfing the hitpoints really really hurts the usability of the moros the most. How about a 25% damage per level and keep the 50%HP/level?



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