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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 69 post(s) |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1312
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:53:00 -
[151] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote: The CFC's casus beli is your bad posting, and they should be free to wardec you forever and a day at whatever cost it incurs on them, if they wish to. I have absolutely no problem with being in foreverwar with Goonswarm. But clearly *someone* had a pretty huge problem with the notion it should be more of an even fight. Yes, everyone did.
As much as it was fun for the first two days of signing up allies for free to grief the Russians who wardecced us I can't help but see it as ludicrously broken. Goonswarm, incidentally, have logically made the same points yet have also demonstrated having a lot of fun with the system, because they like shooting people, highsec or otherwise. They don't care if they lose badly, you just don't see that. Most of their highsec losses have been either newbees who don't know any better (literally, no idea there was a war on) or guys taking out whelp fleets and pew pewing for the fun of it. No one in the CFC is whining from the interests of personal gain, but are making logical points the system is broken. You're too blinded by your own ineffectual rage to see the difference.
It takes a twisted, conceited and incredibly biased mind to read a change that literally helps everyone in the merc marketplace (just look at all the threadnaughts on it, from Noir. and others - Moar Tears literally dispanded and did other things, others are incredibly handicapped) and see it as "Goonswarm asked for the nerf."
You of all people should know that if this is a change they wanted they would be singing from the rafters that they got it changed, tinfoil hats be damned (see: Titan changes, etc and etc). - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1312
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Posted - 2012.06.11 18:56:00 -
[152] - Quote
Incidentally I think the notion of paying magic sky people to wardec at all is completely stupid. If you have a reason to go and shoot someone in the face then you should just press "I hate this corp of idiots" in your neocom and have them show up red 24 hours later.
Anything else is just checks and balances in a sandbox, which is never useful.
Let the weak die, it's what is meant to happen. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Tithi
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
12
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:01:00 -
[153] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote: The CFC's casus beli is your bad posting, and they should be free to wardec you forever and a day at whatever cost it incurs on them, if they wish to. I have absolutely no problem with being in foreverwar with Goonswarm. But clearly *someone* had a pretty huge problem with the notion it should be more of an even fight. Yes, everyone did. As much as it was fun for the first two days of signing up allies for free to grief the Russians who wardecced us I can't help but see it as ludicrously broken. Goonswarm, incidentally, have logically made the same points yet have also demonstrated having a lot of fun with the system, because they like shooting people, highsec or otherwise. They don't care if they lose badly, you just don't see that. Most of their highsec losses have been either newbees who don't know any better (literally, no idea there was a war on) or guys taking out whelp fleets and pew pewing for the fun of it. No one in the CFC is whining from the interests of personal gain, but are making logical points the system is broken. You're too blinded by your own ineffectual rage to see the difference. It takes a twisted, conceited and incredibly biased mind to read a change that literally helps everyone in the merc marketplace (just look at all the threadnaughts on it, from Noir. and others - Moar Tears literally dispanded and did other things, others are incredibly handicapped) and see it as "Goonswarm asked for the nerf." You of all people should know that if this is a change they wanted they would be singing from the rafters that they got it changed, tinfoil hats be damned (see: Titan changes, etc and etc).
Yeah to me, the idea that this patch is a goon conspiracy so that they have LESS people to shoot at is beyond ********. Of course the Goons want you to recruit as many people as possible! How is it fun for them if you are the only people to shoot at? |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2016
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:01:00 -
[154] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: It takes a twisted, conceited and incredibly biased mind to read a change that literally helps everyone in the merc marketplace (just look at all the threadnaughts on it, from Noir. and others - Moar Tears literally dispanded and did other things, others are incredibly handicapped) and see it as "Goonswarm asked for the nerf."
I think you are in for a lot of disappointment if you think having a surcharge for allies is going to help mercs in the marketplace. In the future it simply means mercs will be charged to enter wars as allies (as a cheaper option to paying concord direct.)
Khanh'rhh wrote:You of all people should know that if this is a change they wanted they would be singing from the rafters that they got it changed, tinfoil hats be damned (see: Titan changes, etc and etc).
Despite the general forum hurly-burly the reality is that the goonswarm rank and file is not the goonswarm leadership. I can quite imagine the common goons quite enjoying the wardecs - but the planners and leadership see the danger and thus start whining for a nerf.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Addrake
Origin. Black Legion.
26
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:02:00 -
[155] - Quote
You guys get fireline fixed yet? Gonna make me a sad panda if you don't get that **** sorted. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2016
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:04:00 -
[156] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Incidentally I think the notion of paying magic sky people to wardec at all is completely stupid. If you have a reason to go and shoot someone in the face then you should just press "I hate this corp of idiots" in your neocom and have them show up red 24 hours later.
Anything else is just checks and balances in a sandbox, which is never useful.
Let the weak die, it's what is meant to happen.
As long as the target can request allies and turn hisec into a maelstrom of chaos and mayhem and carnage then I don't really have a problem with that :)
Good we agree on something at least.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Tithi
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
12
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:08:00 -
[157] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:Incidentally I think the notion of paying magic sky people to wardec at all is completely stupid. If you have a reason to go and shoot someone in the face then you should just press "I hate this corp of idiots" in your neocom and have them show up red 24 hours later.
Anything else is just checks and balances in a sandbox, which is never useful.
Let the weak die, it's what is meant to happen. As long as the target can request allies and turn hisec into a maelstrom of chaos and mayhem and carnage then I don't really have a problem with that :) Good we agree on something at least.
I still want you to explain how it makes sense that the goons would want LESS people to shoot at... |
Lord Zim
785
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:14:00 -
[158] - Quote
Jade Constantwhine wrote:Despite the general forum hurly-burly the reality is that the goonswarm rank and file is not the goonswarm leadership. I can quite imagine the common goons quite enjoying the wardecs - but the planners and leadership see the danger and thus start whining for a nerf. Um. Which dangers would our leaders see which our rank and file wouldn't see? |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2016
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:14:00 -
[159] - Quote
Tithi wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:Incidentally I think the notion of paying magic sky people to wardec at all is completely stupid. If you have a reason to go and shoot someone in the face then you should just press "I hate this corp of idiots" in your neocom and have them show up red 24 hours later.
Anything else is just checks and balances in a sandbox, which is never useful.
Let the weak die, it's what is meant to happen. As long as the target can request allies and turn hisec into a maelstrom of chaos and mayhem and carnage then I don't really have a problem with that :) Good we agree on something at least. I still want you to explain how it makes sense that the goons would want LESS people to shoot at...
Perhaps you should write to the Test Alliance CSM rep and ask him what he thinks of the wardec changes.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2016
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:15:00 -
[160] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Jade Constantwhine wrote:Despite the general forum hurly-burly the reality is that the goonswarm rank and file is not the goonswarm leadership. I can quite imagine the common goons quite enjoying the wardecs - but the planners and leadership see the danger and thus start whining for a nerf. Um. Which dangers would our leaders see which our rank and file wouldn't see?
If you have to ask you are obviously in no position to know.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
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Lord Zim
785
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:19:00 -
[161] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Jade Constantwhine wrote:Despite the general forum hurly-burly the reality is that the goonswarm rank and file is not the goonswarm leadership. I can quite imagine the common goons quite enjoying the wardecs - but the planners and leadership see the danger and thus start whining for a nerf. Um. Which dangers would our leaders see which our rank and file wouldn't see? If you have to ask you are obviously in no position to know. I'll help you: your claim makes no sense at all. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3292
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:22:00 -
[162] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: Despite the general forum hurly-burly the reality is that the goonswarm rank and file is not the goonswarm leadership. I can quite imagine the common goons quite enjoying the wardecs - but the planners and leadership see the danger and thus start whining for a nerf.
i'm goonswarm leadership and if i cared one whit about this i would be doing exactly what the smart man said |
Tithi
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
12
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:23:00 -
[163] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Jade Constantwhine wrote:Despite the general forum hurly-burly the reality is that the goonswarm rank and file is not the goonswarm leadership. I can quite imagine the common goons quite enjoying the wardecs - but the planners and leadership see the danger and thus start whining for a nerf. Um. Which dangers would our leaders see which our rank and file wouldn't see? If you have to ask you are obviously in no position to know. I'll help you: your claim makes no sense at all.
What doesn't make sense about this argument?
"The Goonswarm CSM plants have no idea what their constituents want and they are using their influence to change game mechanics in ways that their alliance players won't actually like, just to make life harder for pubbies."
Seems totally logical to me. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3296
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:25:00 -
[164] - Quote
Tithi wrote: What doesn't make sense about this argument?
"The Goonswarm CSM plants have no idea what their constituents want and they are using their influence to change game mechanics in ways that their alliance players won't actually like, just to make life harder for pubbies."
Seems totally logical to me.
jade is claiming the reverse: that our rank-and-file don't care but goonswarm leadership is quaking in its boots at jade
which is so hilarious words can't do it justice |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
120
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:28:00 -
[165] - Quote
what exactly does goonswarm have to lose by being in a highsec war with anyone
answer: nothing, because we've been using neutral alts in empire since 2006 |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3296
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:29:00 -
[166] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:what exactly does goonswarm have to lose by being in a highsec war with anyone
answer: nothing, because we've been using neutral alts in empire since 2006 dont give away our secrets! |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1054
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:33:00 -
[167] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:what exactly does goonswarm have to lose by being in a highsec war with anyone
answer: nothing, because we've been using neutral alts in empire since 2006
jesus christ OPSEC |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1313
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:35:00 -
[168] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Despite the general forum hurly-burly the reality is that the goonswarm rank and file is not the goonswarm leadership. I can quite imagine the common goons quite enjoying the wardecs - but the planners and leadership see the danger and thus start whining for a nerf.
a) You "imagining" things is not fact. Show where they whined. I asked you before but you ignored it. Surely whine loud enough to make CCP instantly renege on a headline feature change would be massive, no? i.e. the kind you're seeing from the actual mercs and NOT Goonswarm.
b) You are insufferably obtuse. You realise if, at any point, the live wars were a hassle they'd just drop them, right? You can do that at ANY time with no penalty. There's literally no downside to wanting to stop the war. You also "accused" GSF of doing this ahead of Burn jita, so which is it? Can they stop the wars when they want or not? There's no logical chain of thought in what you're saying at all, there is absolutely no harm that can be caused to your alliance by an OUTWARD facing wardec since you control it entirely.
You've not got a single point to make nor any evidence to present other than your vague hand-waving and "oh of course!" assuagions.
No wonder they're after you. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1243
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:37:00 -
[169] - Quote
While everyone is having a field day with Jade's tinfoil hat, I've got another question about the wardec system:
Is the director/CEO who declares a war still anonymous? Eliminating the voting period for wars was a good thing, but it had the effect of also making any director/CEO be able to declare war against his corp/alliance's wishes without any real personal consequences (since it's impossible to know it was really him). More details here. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
2433
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:44:00 -
[170] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:While everyone is having a field day with Jade's tinfoil hat, I've got another question about the wardec system: Is the director/CEO who declares a war still anonymous? Eliminating the voting period for wars was a good thing, but it had the effect of also making any director/CEO be able to declare war against his corp/alliance's wishes without any real personal consequences (since it's impossible to know it was really him). More details here.
Yeah, it's still not listed anywhere who declared war. It's something that would be really cool to get in, along with putting names to other actions in the war, but we didn't have time to do it for Inferno 1.1. CCP Punkturis | EVE UI Programmer | @CCP_Punkturis |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1243
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:48:00 -
[171] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:While everyone is having a field day with Jade's tinfoil hat, I've got another question about the wardec system: Is the director/CEO who declares a war still anonymous? Eliminating the voting period for wars was a good thing, but it had the effect of also making any director/CEO be able to declare war against his corp/alliance's wishes without any real personal consequences (since it's impossible to know it was really him). More details here. Yeah, it's still not listed anywhere who declared war. It's something that would be really cool to get in, along with putting names to other actions in the war, but we didn't have time to do it for Inferno 1.1. Awesome! That would be great. Looking forward to it! Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Lord Zim
785
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:48:00 -
[172] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:While everyone is having a field day with Jade's tinfoil hat, I've got another question about the wardec system: Is the director/CEO who declares a war still anonymous? Eliminating the voting period for wars was a good thing, but it had the effect of also making any director/CEO be able to declare war against his corp/alliance's wishes without any real personal consequences (since it's impossible to know it was really him). More details here. Sounds more like a "worst case scenario" than something which'll actually become a real problem, since you'll probably know ahead of time if a CEO or director would do something like this.
Nothing wrong with naming and shaming though. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1313
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:48:00 -
[173] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:While everyone is having a field day with Jade's tinfoil hat, I've got another question about the wardec system: Is the director/CEO who declares a war still anonymous? Eliminating the voting period for wars was a good thing, but it had the effect of also making any director/CEO be able to declare war against his corp/alliance's wishes without any real personal consequences (since it's impossible to know it was really him). More details here. Much like there not being a log on who removed all the stuff from your corp hangers, it's pretty much a "give the roles to people responsible and trustworthy" thing.
My sense of mischief wants it left how it is. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1115
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:55:00 -
[174] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:what exactly does goonswarm have to lose by being in a highsec war with anyone
answer: nothing, because we've been using neutral alts in empire since 2006
Oh, so the last six years of Privaters and Orphanage killing thousands of you in high sec are all fake kill mails?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
86
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Posted - 2012.06.11 19:55:00 -
[175] - Quote
The last time my GoonSwarm affiliated characters undocked in highsec I was slaughtering miners so no I really don't have much to worry about. |
Lord Zim
785
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 20:01:00 -
[176] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:what exactly does goonswarm have to lose by being in a highsec war with anyone
answer: nothing, because we've been using neutral alts in empire since 2006 Oh, so the last six years of Privaters and Orphanage killing thousands of you in high sec are all fake kill mails? Those are newbies or dumbasses. What does that have to do with "our leaders" apparently shitting their pants to the effect of having CCP make mechanics changes? |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2434
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 20:04:00 -
[177] - Quote
Everyone please, this has gone on long enough. Sorry to spoil all the fun, but I thought I'd clear this little debate up right now. I might lose my council seat but I just can't hide the truth any longer.
What the CSM has been hiding is that Trebor Daehdoow is actually "Future Mittani" - sent back through a wormhole in order to rewrite history. Apparently during the Great Carebear uprising of 2027 Goonswarm is all but annihilated after a mining boycott forces the Goonies into retrievers and a massive wardec fueled by insane profits off custom capsuleer-created NEX clothing leaves them helpless and vulnerable.
Now Future Mittani must get the war dec changes tweaked in order to prevent certain disaster! I also have it on good authority that Hilmar is personally responsible for letting the wormhole technology fall into the wrong hands.... Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1705
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Posted - 2012.06.11 20:06:00 -
[178] - Quote
Aside from the fact that unlimited allies completely **** over any chance of mercenaries having a chance, it was just a dumb thing. When all of this came up at the CSM Summit the primary examples discussed were about what had happened with EVE Uni and how it would affect the Mercenary profession, which is something CCP does intend to keep working toward making viable. Unlike in the past, CCP has recognized this was a dumb thing and have acted to fix it quickly. I'm not a fan of this EXACT fix but maybe it'll change a bit more between now and release. Regardless, unlimited allies was a dumb thing.
However, this tinfoil idiocy is an even dumber thing. You want to argue about the mechanics, fine. If you don't like the way they are now or the way the changes will make them, that's fine too. But check the tinfoil crap at the door.
I cannot fathom how after nine years of this game being live anyone could really BELIEVE that the people that work on it give two ***** about the colors on a map or what corp / alliance is affected by balance changes. I worked at CCP in Game Design for over three years and I never made a decision or a change based upon how it would affect in game ~politics~ and no one I worked with did either. It's completely off the rails to suggest that someone like CCP Soundwave takes his cues from anyone other than CCP Unifex, the guy that does his salary reviews. It's even more absurd to bring CCP Screegs into anything related to Game Design because the guy is too busy hammering bots and RMTers; he's got nothing to do with this stuff.
It's just too dumb; I refuse to believe that you believe this stuff, Jade. The more you rabble about it along those lines, the less attention anyone is going to pay to you. Stick to talking about the actual mechanics and stop this nonsense.
CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
645
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Posted - 2012.06.11 20:10:00 -
[179] - Quote
I personally think that a better solution to ally spamming would have been to allow the aggressor to bring in an ally for every ally the defender brought in. Escalation is good because more war is better. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3297
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 20:14:00 -
[180] - Quote
Seleene wrote: It's just too dumb; I refuse to believe that you believe this stuff, Jade. The more you rabble about it along those lines, the less attention anyone is going to pay to you. Stick to talking about the actual mechanics and stop this nonsense.
You are not familiar with Jade, I see. Not a customer, back in the day? |
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