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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 69 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2022
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Posted - 2012.06.11 20:59:00 -
[211] - Quote
Elise Randolph wrote:I agree with Jade. If you couldn't bring in world renowned PvP allies like We help Noobs, INVARIANT TENSOR, Angelserivce, Dukes of Noobs, Spontaneous Castigation, Pods Must Cry, Nocturnal Twins, I AM UGLY AND THIS MAKES ME ANGRY ALSO JUMP, Kicking Smurfs, Hostile Kids, Freight Club, Next Era Dawn, Kamikaze Tactics, Unicorn Zero, PAX Interstellar Mercenary People, The Blacklist LTd., Kursk Security, Destruction Overload, Envy., Multicultural Appreciation Society, Pandora Cartel, P I R A T, Iron Oxide., Corsairs., Let Us Sleep, Ex Obscuritas, Electric Society, Tactical Knightmare, New eden lotto, Hikage Corporation, Rowdy Ramblers, Moustache Twirling Space Cads, and Corpus Alienum to fight the Goon menace, then there is NO WAY to fight them. It's impossible, really. The only way to kill Goons is to have 100 random allies in Empire. Then and only then can their nullsec empire crumble.
So Elise - since you find these allies so utterly laughable and irrelevant why should I have to pay concord a premium for them as long as the total size of my alliance and these corps is less than the total size of the entity making the incoming wardec?
Riddle me that.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1710
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 20:59:00 -
[212] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:I'm the one spearheading for reforms to the Inferno war dec system and the CSM has pretty solidly been behind the changes we discussed prior to and during the CSM summit.
The slight cost added to taking new allies was not one of those changes, I do not support it, and I do not think the CSM as a whole is too enthused (though Issler doesn't support it for different reasons than the rest of us do: it's still ****). I'm glad to hear that Alekseyev - thanks for your comment. I mean when/if this thing does go live it will create some ridiculous situations. I mean Seleene can froth at me all he likes saying "how dare you accuse CCP of being unbalanced in favour of goons" but thats exactly how its going to look when the goons can wardec at target for 50m isk and it takes potentially unlimited ISK to count the dec through the allied system. It will be a simple matter of ISK comparison. When the largest entity in the game can wardec for peanuts and you can't bring allies for less than an emperor's ransom then something is very fishy with the system.
Jade, my 'frothing at the mouth' is actually quite measured compared to the rampant paranoia you've attempted to foster over the last several pages. Don't backpedal by saying it's a lack of dev experience or CSM inaction now. As I said in my post, I don't believe you are dumb enough to believe in that tinfoil crap (quite the opposite really) so this coy "what it will look like" routine just falls flat. Yeah, it makes me a little ~mad~ because I honestly thought we were past that sort of nonsense, especially someone like you that has been on the CSM and met some of these guys.
As for the CSM, we're not watching this from the sidelines and were already asking after it before this forum madness kicked off. As Alek said, I'm not sure how the wires got crossed here but I'm pretty sure we can resolve it with a few good posts internally. That doesn't mean the ally system should allow 20,30 or 70 corps, etc... to bandwagon tho. v0v CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2022
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Posted - 2012.06.11 21:02:00 -
[213] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:CCP on this issue is a bit like slumbering King Th+¬oden and there are some evil Gr+¡ma Wormtongue's on the CSM whispering to his ear that anybody who isn't a member of 5000 man alliance is a traitor to Rohan. Why do you believe CCP as a whole would compromise their integrity for one alliance?
I'm not sure King Th+¬oden willingly compromised his integrity to Grimir ... he was ensorcelled by evil magicks and lies.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
361
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:03:00 -
[214] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Elise Randolph wrote:I agree with Jade. If you couldn't bring in world renowned PvP allies like We help Noobs, INVARIANT TENSOR, Angelserivce, Dukes of Noobs, Spontaneous Castigation, Pods Must Cry, Nocturnal Twins, I AM UGLY AND THIS MAKES ME ANGRY ALSO JUMP, Kicking Smurfs, Hostile Kids, Freight Club, Next Era Dawn, Kamikaze Tactics, Unicorn Zero, PAX Interstellar Mercenary People, The Blacklist LTd., Kursk Security, Destruction Overload, Envy., Multicultural Appreciation Society, Pandora Cartel, P I R A T, Iron Oxide., Corsairs., Let Us Sleep, Ex Obscuritas, Electric Society, Tactical Knightmare, New eden lotto, Hikage Corporation, Rowdy Ramblers, Moustache Twirling Space Cads, and Corpus Alienum to fight the Goon menace, then there is NO WAY to fight them. It's impossible, really. The only way to kill Goons is to have 100 random allies in Empire. Then and only then can their nullsec empire crumble. So Elise - since you find these allies so utterly laughable and irrelevant why should I have to pay concord a premium for them as long as the total size of my alliance and these corps is less than the total size of the entity making the incoming wardec? Riddle me that.
So Jade, why should you need to have that many people at all seeing as there seem to be like twenty goons active, based on the posted kill links as examples?
Riddle me that. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2075
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Posted - 2012.06.11 21:05:00 -
[215] - Quote
So another point of view.
I don't believe there is deliberate goon influence in the current CSM, that said, there are some CSM and CCP developers that seem to have pretty similar views of Eve when compared to the goons.
I am the only CSM seriously being affected by this change and I am definitely NOT happy with the current planned change. We were grief-ed deced some time back by the goons and then by test. We asked for allies and we got some great responses for free. So we have lots of folks hunting goons and test with good result.
I can't say that this fact hasn't had something to do with pressures to change what we now have. That's my opinion, and again, I am the only CSM member directly affected in a major way by this proposed change.
We are 150 person alliance being prema-dec-ed by the two largest alliances in Eve. How could we possible fight them in any fair manner? The war dec war-dec fees will never be factor to these big alliances, they print isks with their tech moons for example.
The current allies system at least let them pay in actually combat losses for their nonsense. But making us have to start paying a lot for allies will be a burden for us. Where is that fair given the huge difference in size 150 vs 12000!
So what I hoped for and don't see yet are changes that address these issues.
1. Something that takes into account the difference in the sizes of the corps/alliances involved. 2. Some clear reasonable "win" condition, like driving someone out of some part of space or some amount of isk loss that triggers surrender. 3. An allies system that takes into account the relative sizes of the parties, I should be allowed to have a lot of allies if I am fighting 12K folks with my 150. 4. Something that makes it more attractive to me to hire a merc as compared to free allies. If there has to be a cap for the number allies we can have, then we should be able to make any fees that have to pay past that maximum of free allies go to mercs we can hire, not concord. 5. Fees sustainable by smaller organizations under siege.
I don't see these changes addressing any of those items.
So I don't think the goons got this because of plants in the CSM or CCP, but I think its clear from my perspective if this change goes forward it eliminates the only way a small outfit like the Honda Accord can survive against such an unbalanced war and definitely favors larger aggressors in a very unbalanced manner.
Issler
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
1029
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Posted - 2012.06.11 21:05:00 -
[216] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:I'm not sure King Th+¬oden willingly compromised his integrity to Grimir ... he was ensorcelled by evil magicks and lies.
Are you trolling? At this point, it sounds like you're just having a laugh. Mane 614
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3297
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Posted - 2012.06.11 21:05:00 -
[217] - Quote
jade needs everyone he can get because he is terrified its as simple as that
any amount of goons will beat him so he needs as much cannon fodder and chaff as he can find |
Lord Zim
785
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Posted - 2012.06.11 21:07:00 -
[218] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:So Elise - since you find these allies so utterly laughable and irrelevant why should I have to pay concord a premium for them as long as the total size of my alliance and these corps is less than the total size of the entity making the incoming wardec?
Riddle me that. So Jade, why don't you want to elucidate on your claim that GSF leaders were supposed to be scared enough of the wardec mechanics that they got CCP to change them to suit, while the rank and file isn't scared?
Riddle me that. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2022
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Posted - 2012.06.11 21:11:00 -
[219] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Jade, my 'frothing at the mouth' is actually quite measured compared to the rampant paranoia you've attempted to foster over the last several pages. Don't backpedal by saying it's a lack of dev experience or CSM inaction now. As I said in my post, I don't believe you are dumb enough to believe in that tinfoil crap (quite the opposite really) so this coy "what it will look like" routine just falls flat. Yeah, it makes me a little ~mad~ because I honestly thought we were past that sort of nonsense, especially someone like you that has been on the CSM and met some of these guys.
Its precisely because I have been on the CSM I know quite how persuasive the attempts to influence game development from the CSM representatives to the benefit of particular interest groups can be. Sometimes to the clear detriment of the game for the general player base. My perception from the outside on this case is that a pretty damned appalling one-sided fiasco of a change has been allowed to pass without appropriate challenge from some of the CSM.
Seleene wrote:As for the CSM, we're not watching this from the sidelines and were already asking after it before this forum madness kicked off. As Alek said, I'm not sure how the wires got crossed here but I'm pretty sure we can resolve it with a few good posts internally. That doesn't mean the ally system should allow 20,30 or 70 people to bandwagon tho. v0v
Okay let me ask you again Seleene - why shouldn't 70 corporations be allowed to bandwangon on a wardec made by a giant organization against a small organization as long as they don't take the total headcount of the defenders above the attackers?
How does it damage the game to let 70 mom and pops trade hub raider corps join a war to defend a small target wardecced by a huge one.
By all means look at ways of ensuring that a small wardec corp doesn't get hungely outnumbered by free allies when it attacks an equal sized or larger target - but that is a different issue and can be solved without the broad stroke devastation of the initial proposal.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:17:00 -
[220] - Quote
I'm curious, why was it determined that only defenders could bring in mercs, sorry, "allies" (don't we already have alliances?) in the first place? Why not allow anyone, attacker or aggressor, to bring in as many mercs as they can afford (with an adjustable contract length, much like price is negotiable?) I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3297
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Posted - 2012.06.11 21:19:00 -
[221] - Quote
Mechael wrote:I'm curious, why was it determined that only defenders could bring in mercs, sorry, "allies" (don't we already have alliances?) in the first place? Why not allow anyone, attacker or aggressor, to bring in as many mercs as they can afford (with an adjustable contract length, much like price is negotiable?) an agressor can just get their buddies to wardec the target themselves |
Uranium 242
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.06.11 21:19:00 -
[222] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:So another point of view.
I don't believe there is deliberate goon influence in the current CSM, that said, there are some CSM and CCP developers that seem to have pretty similar views of Eve when compared to the goons.
I am the only CSM seriously being affected by this change and I am definitely NOT happy with the current planned change. We were grief-ed deced some time back by the goons and then by test. We asked for allies and we got some great responses for free. So we have lots of folks hunting goons and test with good result.
I can't say that this fact hasn't had something to do with pressures to change what we now have. That's my opinion, and again, I am the only CSM member directly affected in a major way by this proposed change.
Which is it? Is it cause we're "losing" a war, which caused the GOONCP to change the wardec? Or is it just well, CCP realizes, hey this is a ****** mechanic. Have some goddamn integrity and just go full tinfoil hat like your partner over there. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
361
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:21:00 -
[223] - Quote
Uranium 242 wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:So another point of view.
I don't believe there is deliberate goon influence in the current CSM, that said, there are some CSM and CCP developers that seem to have pretty similar views of Eve when compared to the goons.
I am the only CSM seriously being affected by this change and I am definitely NOT happy with the current planned change. We were grief-ed deced some time back by the goons and then by test. We asked for allies and we got some great responses for free. So we have lots of folks hunting goons and test with good result.
I can't say that this fact hasn't had something to do with pressures to change what we now have. That's my opinion, and again, I am the only CSM member directly affected in a major way by this proposed change.
Which is it? Is it cause we're "losing" a war, which caused the GOONCP to change the wardec? Or is it just well, CCP realizes, hey this is a ****** mechanic. Have some goddamn integrity and just go full tinfoil hat like your partner over there.
Being a Highly Respected CSM Representative as he is, Issler isn't allowed to bloviate the way Jade is free to. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:23:00 -
[224] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:an agressor can just get their buddies to wardec the target themselves
True, but it's not under any sort of obligatory contracted system. Right now, I can't (as say, an industrial corp that wants to push out competition), go look up some mercs to hire and set up a legitimate contract that says, "You will wardec x corporation for y ISK and z length of time." It's all scouts honor, which in EVE generally means it's not going to happen as often as would be nice.
When I first heard about the mercenary marketplace, that's what I was hoping for.
The current system doesn't make much sense to me any way you slice it. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3297
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:25:00 -
[225] - Quote
Well, you're still stuck hoping they actually do anything instead of issue a wardec and then just ignore the corp. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:26:00 -
[226] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Well, you're still stuck hoping they actually do anything instead of issue a wardec and then just ignore the corp.
True, but that's why we can look up a corp's war history now, isn't it? I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3297
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:28:00 -
[227] - Quote
Mechael wrote:Weaselior wrote:Well, you're still stuck hoping they actually do anything instead of issue a wardec and then just ignore the corp. True, but that's why we can look up a corp's war history now, isn't it? have you considered hiring goonswarm to fight your wars? we come cheap, only 500k isk per member! |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2075
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:29:00 -
[228] - Quote
Uranium 242 wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:So another point of view.
I don't believe there is deliberate goon influence in the current CSM, that said, there are some CSM and CCP developers that seem to have pretty similar views of Eve when compared to the goons.
I am the only CSM seriously being affected by this change and I am definitely NOT happy with the current planned change. We were grief-ed deced some time back by the goons and then by test. We asked for allies and we got some great responses for free. So we have lots of folks hunting goons and test with good result.
I can't say that this fact hasn't had something to do with pressures to change what we now have. That's my opinion, and again, I am the only CSM member directly affected in a major way by this proposed change.
Which is it? Is it cause we're "losing" a war, which caused the GOONCP to change the wardec? Or is it just well, CCP realizes, hey this is a ****** mechanic. Have some goddamn integrity and just go full tinfoil hat like your partner over there.
What I'm saying is that I don't buy into the idea that there are CCP or CSM that have worked to bring these changes to Eve because Mittens has applied some secret influence. I'm saving my tin foil for the next time I bake a turkey.
Issler
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Lord Zim
785
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:30:00 -
[229] - Quote
I guess I'll just take Jade's avoidance on the questions about goon leaders "being deathly afraid" as confirmation that he's just full of ****. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
543
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 21:33:00 -
[230] - Quote
This thread is locked until I get into work tomorrow and get a hold of it again. I made extremely civil, decent requests to keep this thread relevant. Those requests were ignored, so tomorrow I will clean up the thread and reopen it for reasonable, constructive feedback on the Inferno 1.1 features currently on Singularity. For those unable to post said feedback, I apologise and the thread will be open again by 10am tomorrow (GMT). CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
60
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Posted - 2012.06.12 09:48:00 -
[231] - Quote
So we were waiting for a reply to the question "why can't the defenders hire allies for FREE until both side have the same numbers" ??
As this would mean more pilots fighting, More explosions and more ships burning.
Is'nt that what Inferno is suppose to be about? **Murientor Tribe** Killing Slavers, Ammatar and Nafantar Traitors since YC107 |
Kata Amentis
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
59
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Posted - 2012.06.12 09:54:00 -
[232] - Quote
re the cost of adding allies: the problem does seem to stem from the fact that these changes are looking at the corp/alliance level when applying a cost, when it should be looking at member numbers.
Would it be possible to apply a cost to calling in allies only if your "side" as a whole has more numbers than the other "side"?
Ie 50man corp decs a 10man corp; the 10man corp can pull in allies for free until they become a 50man entity making the war "balanced"*, be that 4 other 10man corps, or one 40man corp, or whatever.
Once the defenders are at 50, they can continue to pull in allies but it costs them as they are turning the numbers in their favour.
Making the allies system look at the number of pilots on each side conceptually ties in with the war cost being based on pilot numbers too, although there is some work to be done here for timings and edge cases and the like.
* as much as pvp is ever balanced Curiosity killed the Kata...
... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count. |
Zilero
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
14
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Posted - 2012.06.12 10:34:00 -
[233] - Quote
Just limit the wars you can be an ally in to ONE war. Would solve the problem |
Serge SC
Inglorious Waffles
31
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Posted - 2012.06.12 11:18:00 -
[234] - Quote
Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I'd like to reiterate on it.
The V3 Minmatar ships have lost their personality. No longer does the Vagabond have that unique look with the wingy bits at the sides, now it doesn't look different from a Stabber, just a darker Stabber at it. Same applies to the Claymore/Cyclone. The dark pattern doesn't sit well.
The Tempest Fleet issue is no longer easily recognizable. Out squared wingy bits are gone too. Now it is just another Tempest with a different paint job, and what's worse, the model wasn't even fixed. The exhaust still has the 2 plates at the side floating and not attached, and the tower to the right, on top of the right turrets, is also floating. The telephone poles are also nowhere to be found and the cockpit looks like a lighter green blob on top of the rest.
The regular Tempest, I can live with it, not fan, but not hating it. The Vargur looks kinda neat, and out of the Tempest hulls, it's the best. The Fleet Tempest is now unimaginative. The Tribal Tempest however, our unique and best ship, just looks terrible - sorry, but it does.
The lighter tone on the staple Minmatar ship, the Hurricane, looks bad all around as well. The Cyclone pattern is nice, but the Hurricane's looks are not up to par - and the new Tornado, why? It looked well already.
On that note, uniformed, perfectly painted, all-equal ships are not Minmatar-looking. They feel more Gallentean/Amarrian rather than Minmatar. I fly mostly Minmatar ships, and I've always loved the unique look, the missmatched colours, the blocky and improvised feel they have, those random bits attached to the hull, those solar panels that protrude sometimes, or how well and recognisable they are. It just feels like the newer versions have taken that away. And the lighter colours feel out of place on the ships.
Sorry to be this negative, but it just doesn't feel right/ Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC |
impli
Tr0pa de elite. Against ALL Authorities
12
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Posted - 2012.06.12 11:23:00 -
[235] - Quote
Feedback : GÇó Adding flares to missiles. Makes them visible when zoomed out.
Threat: Forum url
Please add more brighter light to the flares or more flares, because missiles still are difficulty to see when zoomed out. |
Mata1s
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
205
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Posted - 2012.06.12 11:32:00 -
[236] - Quote
After checking out the new V3 Minmatar skins for a forth time I now actually quite like them all, apart from the pitch black Core Complexion skins, the Claymore and Scimitar in particular look ridiculous. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
544
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Posted - 2012.06.12 11:59:00 -
[237] - Quote
Updated OP with Five-0 incursion changes and some GoD Unified Inventory fixes CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
310
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Posted - 2012.06.12 12:06:00 -
[238] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Updated OP with Five-0 incursion changes and some GoD Unified Inventory fixes Green around active ship is not in your patch notes |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
310
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Posted - 2012.06.12 12:28:00 -
[239] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:blah blah....tomorrow I will clean up the thread and reopen it for reasonable, constructive feedback on the Inferno 1.1 features currently on Singularity.
LOLOL
If you took ANY notice at ALL over GÇ£feedback on the Inferno 1.1 features currently on SingularityGÇ¥ this pile of unified directory crap would NOT be on TQ in the first place. So PLEASE donGÇÖt pretend that you do.
Enjoy, unlike most people have been doing while playing this game during the last few weeks.
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Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
30
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Posted - 2012.06.12 12:34:00 -
[240] - Quote
Goliath,
any word on if we're gonna get any new goodies in 1.1 as i thought there was going to be a trickle of new modules throughout inferno?
also is that really all five-0 are doing for 1.1? 2 rollbacks? |
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