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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
![Ezekiel Sulastin Ezekiel Sulastin](https://images.evetech.net/characters/921066941/portrait?size=64)
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:20:00 -
[631]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 05/01/2010 02:26:44
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 05/01/2010 00:00:15
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Also, I somehow think giving the Nyx a damage bonus to just fighters will quickly place it on the same level as people consider the Hel Mk II, if not worse. Why precisely should one field an anticapital supercap that lacks a bonus to the anticapital weapons with significantly less tank than the other two without such bonus when you can do the same fighter thing with two carriers? Isn't the lack of damage without proper compensation the reason people want the Hel's bonus changed?
i agree ^^
I'm guessing the only part of that you actually agree with/didn't ignore is the last sentence. Otherwise you wouldn't immediately turn around and continue touting your fighter-only nyx bonus.
I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it's because of bad writing on my part - upon rereading my quote, it could be a bit confusing :)
What you suggest is to make the Nyx the premier subcapital killer among the supercarriers at the expense of its ability to attack capitals. This is a terribad idea. Any subcapital support role that could be performed by one Nyx could be performed better by two carriers - heck, you get more reps that way. You could argue that you'd use it against support in a capfight - again, two carriers for the same amount of fighters are much cheaper (and insurable).
The reason people are trying to find a good bonus for the Hel is to make it useful on the capital battlefield. Neither the Aeon nor the Wyvern have damage bonuses, it's true, but they have much better tanks to compensate. The Nyx doesn't tank as well, but does more damage to capitals to compensate. The Hel needs a bonus of some sort to improve its effectiveness against capitals to fulfill the role given it, it's true, but giving it the Nyx's damage bonus and removing the Nyx's advantage against capitals will make the Nyx just as undesirable a supercarrier as the new Hel seems to be.
Again, I have no idea what that bonus should be - the explosion radius bonus to the citadel torp could have been interesting, but as far as I know now no anticapital weapon will have any problems hitting capitals with the changes. I do know that making the Hel a Nyx while making the Nyx two Thanatoses (Thanati?) duct-taped together is not the solution. Maybe swapping bonuses and fitting around so you have a tank and gank mom for shield and armor would be good? ... I dunno.
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![Xing Fey Xing Fey](https://images.evetech.net/characters/690544305/portrait?size=64)
Xing Fey
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:54:00 -
[632]
^It'd be like a rocket-phoenix....
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![Natasha Nikolaev Natasha Nikolaev](https://images.evetech.net/characters/303129333/portrait?size=64)
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:56:00 -
[633]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 05/01/2010 02:59:18
Originally by: ByFstugan
My personal choice: My choice would be still your second choice on SiSi, the fighter Bomber explosion speed (suggestion 2) so it hit moving/smaller targets better (or 3% to both explosion radius and damage). Second best might be to split bonus to 3% Shield Resist (as Caldari) and 3% Damage to Fighters/FB's (as Gallente)
The explosion speed idea really only helps with carriers/supercaps and subcaps. As dreads *will* be the main target (by far) in the capital arena, exp vel. bonus helps them against capitals only marginally and certainly less than the Nyx's bonus, which helps against all capitals equally. Given that even with an exp vel. bonus they will still be quite poor against subcaps (which shouldn't be a focus for them, anyways), I have to disagree with you on the value of such a bonus. I *DO* agree that their bonus should not be in personal defense, but offense-oriented via bonus to fighters/FBs. Straight up damage bonus is already taken and as I explained above I really do not thing exp rad or velocity bonus would make much sense. As for your second option, I personally do not think split bonuses will give enough of an increase to either Hel survivability or damage to make a worthwhile difference in either department. It's a "jack of all trades" thing but unfortunately EVE tends to heavily fabor the masters, not the jacks.
Significant increase to FB survivability equals less dead FBs, which means lower PITA and cost of ownership as well as significantly decreased likelihood of ending up in a situation where you dont even have a full 20 FBs to field. It isn't an increase in your ability to do damage, but it IS an increase in your ability to do damage over the whole of a capital engagement.
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![ByFstugan ByFstugan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/422087420/portrait?size=64)
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 03:37:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 05/01/2010 02:59:18
Originally by: ByFstugan
My personal choice: My choice would be still your second choice on SiSi, the fighter Bomber explosion speed (suggestion 2) so it hit moving/smaller targets better (or 3% to both explosion radius and damage). Second best might be to split bonus to 3% Shield Resist (as Caldari) and 3% Damage to Fighters/FB's (as Gallente)
The explosion speed idea really only helps with carriers/supercaps and subcaps. As dreads *will* be the main target (by far) in the capital arena, exp vel. bonus helps them against capitals only marginally and certainly less than the Nyx's bonus, which helps against all capitals equally. Given that even with an exp vel. bonus they will still be quite poor against subcaps (which shouldn't be a focus for them, anyways), I have to disagree with you on the value of such a bonus. I *DO* agree that their bonus should not be in personal defense, but offense-oriented via bonus to fighters/FBs. Straight up damage bonus is already taken and as I explained above I really do not thing exp rad or velocity bonus would make much sense. As for your second option, I personally do not think split bonuses will give enough of an increase to either Hel survivability or damage to make a worthwhile difference in either department. It's a "jack of all trades" thing but unfortunately EVE tends to heavily fabor the masters, not the jacks.
Significant increase to FB survivability equals less dead FBs, which means lower PITA and cost of ownership as well as significantly decreased likelihood of ending up in a situation where you dont even have a full 20 FBs to field. It isn't an increase in your ability to do damage, but it IS an increase in your ability to do damage over the whole of a capital engagement.
I agree that the main-targets mostly will be Dreads, who most likelly are in siege and not moving (besides those that bounced and not yet stopped), and that's an important point you have there. I just feel that extra life to FB's is a boring bonus say the least, and it doesn't make Minmatar SC master of anything noticable really mostly.
The bonus could be changed to ROF-bonus instead (not unheard of on Minmatar ships either) and be a unique damagebonus for Minmatar SC. But I still kinda like the explosion velocity bonus, and when U get a chance to kill another supercarrier, or perhaps even a Titan, this will be noticed.
I'm not totally against Hel having a personal defense bonus as long as some extra percentage is thrown in, that meaning 3% per level instead of 2,5%. It still will be the weakest SC so it's nothing strange to it really.
So my new suggestions would be in this order:
1) 3% to FB explosion radius AND rate of fire
2) 5% to FB rate of fire
3) 3% to Shield resistance (on ship) AND 3% to FB rate of fire
To get 15% unstacked bonus to tank EHP should be noticable, as well as 15% extra damage to 20 FB's (that's like 3 extra invisible ones). It might be less likelly to give Minmatar the #3 bonus, but if I could choose what I'd have if I build my Hel I think it would be that one. However the #1 or #2 might be more appropiate. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
![ByFstugan ByFstugan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/422087420/portrait?size=64)
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 04:03:00 -
[635]
This is suggestions to how the bonuses could be on the Supercarriers after Dominion 1.1.
The thought is to do a complete work and not only remove triage, but all logistics. As a change I put some racial gang bonuses and the logistics is henceforth only applied to regular carriers. The Fighter Range here also include bonus to drones so this drone-fighting-behemoth doesn't get T-rex arms when fighting with regular drones.
The Minmatar SC got it's bonus changed due to a breakthrough the Minmatar engineers did during the christmasholidays that CCP wasn't aware of before. Minmatars best engineers on their missile research labs had a couple of eureka ideas that we now see coming to public knowledge. This are great times that's not "meh" to Minmatar pilots ^^
Remove Bonus to all races: - Can fit Clone Vat Bay - Can fit Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules - 50% bonus to Capital Shield/Armor/Energy transfer range per level
Role Bonus to all races: - 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules - Can fit Projected Electronic Counter Measures - 200% bonus to Fighter and Drone control range - Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Carrier skill bonus to all races: - Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level - Can deploy 3 additional Fighters/Fighter Bombers per level
Minmatar Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 3% to Fighter Bomber torpedoes explosion radius and rate of fire per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links per level
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to deployed Fighters/Fighter Bombers damage per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links per level
Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
Besides that it would maybe be nice to have another racial bonus: - x% bonus to deployed Racial Drones/Fighters/Fighter Bombers damage per level _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
![Marlona Sky Marlona Sky](https://images.evetech.net/characters/681548744/portrait?size=64)
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 06:00:00 -
[636]
Originally by: LoveKebab To fix the Hel we break the Nyx.
![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
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![EdFromHumanResources EdFromHumanResources](https://images.evetech.net/characters/840045499/portrait?size=64)
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.05 06:11:00 -
[637]
Hate to admit it but removing the remote rep range would reduce the gayness that a MS blob will be but you can only have so many warfare links in a fleet before they become redundant. I really wouldnt want to see my reps removed.
I would love to see the bombers actually on sisi :)
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![ByFstugan ByFstugan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/422087420/portrait?size=64)
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 06:54:00 -
[638]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Hate to admit it but removing the remote rep range would reduce the gayness that a MS blob will be but you can only have so many warfare links in a fleet before they become redundant. I really wouldnt want to see my reps removed.
I would love to see the bombers actually on sisi :)
I thought about it and changed my post to include that still and added a suggestion to give those module a passive bonus that makes them at least half as effective as a triaged version. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
![Ezekiel Sulastin Ezekiel Sulastin](https://images.evetech.net/characters/921066941/portrait?size=64)
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.05 07:59:00 -
[639]
One quick note about ROF bonuses - remember that each percentage point of ROF results in a greater damage boost than each percentage point of damage. I did some really quick calcs (below, to lol at my failmath) and 3% ROF is equivalent to 5% damage as far as DPS is concerned :p
(failmath: Nyx: 20 dmg/shot * 1.25 dmg/shot = 25 dmg/shot ˜ 3/(1.00) {3.00} sec refire = 7.667 dps Hel: 20 dmg/shot * 1.00 dmg/shot = 20 dmg/shot ˜ 3/(1.15) {2.61} sec refire = 7.667 dps)
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![Marlona Sky Marlona Sky](https://images.evetech.net/characters/681548744/portrait?size=64)
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:05:00 -
[640]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, but that bonus for Gallente is worthless. The info gang links are used less than 1% of the time for a reason, it is a horrible set of bonuses. Maybe they could change that to something worth fitting and then it would be cool.
Again I am not saying that overall the 5% to the racial gang links is bad, its just for the Nyx, it would not mean a thing. Now if they changed the Info links to drone related bonuses... then we would be on to something...
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![LoveKebab LoveKebab](https://images.evetech.net/characters/639356097/portrait?size=64)
LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:19:00 -
[641]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 05/01/2010 00:56:14
Originally by: LoveKebab also what u expect to get resists for ? since bonuses should be unique im pretty sure the only thing that's left for improved resists is structure...
Sorry I was not clear. resists were for fighters/bombers not the ship. 33% effective ehp increase and if you actually do manage to lock one of your FBs before it dies, will help with keeping it alive. Given the PITA and cost of replacing FBs and if you lose a full or majority of a flight you're SOL due to not being able to carry near a full set of replacements (hel can carry 29 FBs plus regular drones) FB survivability bonus is not a bad way to go. In the same line of thought Hel could simply get 10% fighter/FB HP per lvl bonus. Loses the increased "FB tanking" but more EHP.
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 05/01/2010 00:00:15
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Also, I somehow think giving the Nyx a damage bonus to just fighters will quickly place it on the same level as people consider the Hel Mk II, if not worse. Why precisely should one field an anticapital supercap that lacks a bonus to the anticapital weapons with significantly less tank than the other two without such bonus when you can do the same fighter thing with two carriers? Isn't the lack of damage without proper compensation the reason people want the Hel's bonus changed?
i agree ^^
I'm guessing the only part of that you actually agree with/didn't ignore is the last sentence. Otherwise you wouldn't immediately turn around and continue touting your fighter-only nyx bonus.
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![LoveKebab LoveKebab](https://images.evetech.net/characters/639356097/portrait?size=64)
LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:32:00 -
[642]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 05/01/2010 08:32:00 dubble post ;x
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![Xue Slick Xue Slick](https://images.evetech.net/characters/108739327/portrait?size=64)
Xue Slick
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:43:00 -
[643]
Edited by: Xue Slick on 05/01/2010 08:43:45
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 05/01/2010 08:09:08
Originally by: ByFstugan
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, but that bonus for Gallente is worthless. The info gang links are used less than 1% of the time for a reason, it is a horrible set of bonuses. Maybe they could change that to something worth fitting and then it would be cool.
Again I am not saying that overall the 5% to the racial gang links is bad, its just for the Nyx, it would not mean a thing. Now if they changed the Info links to drone related bonuses... then we would be on to something...
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin One quick note about ROF bonuses - (stuff using math)
This is true. I would prefer to see one bonus instead of a split bonus as well. Maybe better explosion velocity? Then again, if a SC is supposed to be a cap killer, how does an explosion velocity bonus help that much? Against smaller non-cap stuff yes, but is that a direction we want the Hel to go? I am impartial either way tbh.
How about not making it 5% but 7.5% per level, like the Titans have as a bonus. As Ed said, there is no real incentive to use warefare links on super carriers. Maybe make them the premier fleet bonus givers?
Also, just throwing this out there, what about looking at a local rep bonus per level for the hel? Might be something that could be looked at?
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![EdFromHumanResources EdFromHumanResources](https://images.evetech.net/characters/840045499/portrait?size=64)
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.05 10:29:00 -
[644]
How about not turning my MS into a capital version of one of the least flown ships in eve?
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![Natasha Nikolaev Natasha Nikolaev](https://images.evetech.net/characters/303129333/portrait?size=64)
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.05 11:22:00 -
[645]
Originally by: LoveKebab
i proposed EHP bonus couple pages back as it was one of the ideas behind the original changes but had no feedback from a dev :( tho this change seems reasonable as a counterpart to dps bonus - either this one or that one :)
Well at least we agree on something. ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif)
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![Mendolorian Girl Mendolorian Girl](https://images.evetech.net/characters/402653340/portrait?size=64)
Mendolorian Girl
Caldari Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 12:38:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 05/01/2010 08:09:08
Originally by: ByFstugan
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, but that bonus for Gallente is worthless. The info gang links are used less than 1% of the time for a reason, it is a horrible set of bonuses. Maybe they could change that to something worth fitting and then it would be cool.
Again I am not saying that overall the 5% to the racial gang links is bad, its just for the Nyx, it would not mean a thing. Now if they changed the Info links to drone related bonuses... then we would be on to something...
totally disagree.. 40% bonus to sensor strength on every ship in your wing/fleet is pretty darn useful, and the jam strength/range links make armor scorps considerably more potent. If Tri doesn't use ewar very much that's one thing, but don't project that onto others :)
It would be a major pain in the arse for me to retrain my toons for links, but overall I think it would be a great improvement.
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![ByFstugan ByFstugan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/422087420/portrait?size=64)
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 14:58:00 -
[647]
Originally by: Mendolorian Girl
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 05/01/2010 08:09:08
Originally by: ByFstugan
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, but that bonus for Gallente is worthless. The info gang links are used less than 1% of the time for a reason, it is a horrible set of bonuses. Maybe they could change that to something worth fitting and then it would be cool.
Again I am not saying that overall the 5% to the racial gang links is bad, its just for the Nyx, it would not mean a thing. Now if they changed the Info links to drone related bonuses... then we would be on to something...
totally disagree.. 40% bonus to sensor strength on every ship in your wing/fleet is pretty darn useful, and the jam strength/range links make armor scorps considerably more potent. If Tri doesn't use ewar very much that's one thing, but don't project that onto others :)
It would be a major pain in the arse for me to retrain my toons for links, but overall I think it would be a great improvement.
Both may have points here but doesn't really matter since Nyx since long been the most popular MS due to their damagebonus - and when they get SC's that's unlikelly to change. Even with the worst leadership boost the Nyx will be the most popular SC a long time or forever.
So - when thinking about it this kinda leadership boost could accually be a way of even out the SC's to eachother so more of them get reasons to get. Will not make an insane difference though since it will be the EW-immune EHP monster with FB's that will attract most buyers of this ships. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
![davet517 davet517](https://images.evetech.net/characters/263147523/portrait?size=64)
davet517
Raata Invicti Undivided
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Posted - 2010.01.05 15:57:00 -
[648]
Edited by: davet517 on 05/01/2010 16:04:30
First of all, thank you for doing whatever you needed to do internally to get this back on track. My comments:
1. Wyvern should do the same DPS with Figher-Bombers (only) as the Nyx. Yes, they're drones, but they're firing torpedos.
2. The shield boost/recharge and implant imbalance for shield tankers needs to be addressed. Right now, one kind of tanking is widely considered to be superior to the other, and that should not be the case.
3. Add the ability on POSes to set the access on a capital ship maint array to "Private" with a character name, and allow the specified character to set/reset a password on it.
4. The orbit radius on fighter-bombers should be pilot configurable, up to the max range of a citadel torp. Yes, I know that on paper they should be balanced against officer smarties, but we don't play on paper. We often play in impossibly laggy situations where recalling them is not possible, and in those situations they shouldn't die to "set and forget" weapons that keep firing when nobody has module control. These are large, expensive weapons that should be actively targeted, tackled and killed for the most part, not AOE killed en masse.
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![Ardetia Ardetia](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1136718277/portrait?size=64)
Ardetia
The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 16:22:00 -
[649]
Originally by: davet517
4. The orbit radius on fighter-bombers should be pilot configurable, up to the max range of a citadel torp. Yes, I know that on paper they should be balanced against officer smarties, but we don't play on paper. We often play in impossibly laggy situations where recalling them is not possible, and in those situations they shouldn't die to "set and forget" weapons that keep firing when nobody has module control. These are large, expensive weapons that should be actively targeted, tackled and killed for the most part, not AOE killed en masse.
completely agree.. set and forget is not a weapon at all but, im gonna go ahead and say that ccp doesnt make features based on that "there will be lag" even though its something thats probably gonna be in eve to the bitter end
The Flying Tigers are recruiting! |
![iudex iudex](https://images.evetech.net/characters/914638770/portrait?size=64)
iudex
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Posted - 2010.01.05 16:55:00 -
[650]
Hey CCP, I lost track of what your latest plans for MS are, but they must be bad: Can't sell a ME:1 Aeon BPC for below 580mil for a week now (getting undercut). When you made the first change announcement few months ago, the prices for this kind of BPCs went to above 1 bil. It seemed like people actually planned to build and use this ship, which isn't the case anymore, the demand for MS BPC dropped down again. Please rethink your plans and improve this ship type a compared to the current draft. The type of MS that you are currently planning isn't going to be built/used much (otherwise the demand and price for BPCs would rise again). _____________________________________________________ My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00 |
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![0nline 0nline](https://images.evetech.net/characters/548591018/portrait?size=64)
0nline
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2010.01.05 17:15:00 -
[651]
Originally by: iudex Hey CCP, I lost track of what your latest plans for MS are, but they must be bad: Can't sell a ME:1 Aeon BPC for below 580mil for a week now (getting undercut). When you made the first change announcement few months ago, the prices for this kind of BPCs went to above 1 bil. It seemed like people actually planned to build and use this ship, which isn't the case anymore, the demand for MS BPC dropped down again. Please rethink your plans and improve this ship type a compared to the current draft. The type of MS that you are currently planning isn't going to be built/used much (otherwise the demand and price for BPCs would rise again).
I think it actually be more related to the fact that people no longer trust CCP in terms of purposed changes to ships after CCP Nozh went and nerfed the whole thing last time people are not getting their hopes up as much and just waiting to see what happens.
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![Xtover Xtover](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1066652584/portrait?size=64)
Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.01.05 19:52:00 -
[652]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level - 50% bonus to Capital Shield/Energy transfer range per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
Besides that it would maybe be nice to have another racial bonus: - x% bonus to deployed Racial Drones/Fighters/Fighter Bombers damage per level
You're still making the Wyvern worthless other than a tank. if you're going to suggest offensive boni per race it should be across the board- your suggestions offer none for the Wyvern even though FB use torps?
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![SATAN SATAN](https://images.evetech.net/characters/144985928/portrait?size=64)
SATAN
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2010.01.05 19:58:00 -
[653]
So Nozh, or Selene, or Abathur whom ever you are.
Does the new build on Sisi with all the MS changes back to pre buff days mean this whole thing is scrapped again?
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![Letifer Deus Letifer Deus](https://images.evetech.net/characters/145238282/portrait?size=64)
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 20:03:00 -
[654]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 05/01/2010 20:03:18
Originally by: SATAN So Nozh, or Selene, or Abathur whom ever you are.
Does the new build on Sisi with all the MS changes back to pre buff days mean this whole thing is scrapped again?
I'm assuming it was reverted back due to the "hunting the lag monster" mass test they did today. If not, what the ****. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
![ByFstugan ByFstugan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/422087420/portrait?size=64)
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 20:55:00 -
[655]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 05/01/2010 20:58:30
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: ByFstugan
Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level - 50% bonus to Capital Shield/Energy transfer range per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
Besides that it would maybe be nice to have another racial bonus: - x% bonus to deployed Racial Drones/Fighters/Fighter Bombers damage per level
You're still making the Wyvern worthless other than a tank. if you're going to suggest offensive boni per race it should be across the board- your suggestions offer none for the Wyvern even though FB use torps?
First of all we gotta realize that SC's will be ships with high EHP (after HP-buff) and high damage (after Fighter Bombers are added) - and this is true for all of them even without racial bonuses.
Watching the past and present suggestion Amarr/Caldari has had extra high EHP, and this will be even more effective after Dominion 1.1. The suggestion to add the racial gang-bonuses to this ships will also help fleet on same area since they can give extra resists a bit better than other ships.
Besides that Gallente has had the extra damage, and will so continue to have. This makes this ship the most popular MS, and will most likelly continue to be that after Dominion 1.1. Hence the least intresting gangbonus suits this nasty damagedealer.
The only broken ship here is Minmatars with a logistics bonus that nobody wanted before, and is even more broken after removal of triage. Hence the suggestion is to make Minmatar SC to get more damage bonus so we have two SC's with more tank and two SC's with more damage. To give this ship that has less base shield, much less base resists and one less midslot to fit tank with than the Wyvern some extra damage is not at all unfair due to this context. What would be insanely unfair would be to give it a stupid logistics bonus as CCP suggested so far.
I think Caldari (and Amarr) can be happy that it is like this in a way - since no FC in their right mind will primary a better tanked/less damage dealing Aeon before a more damage dealing/weaker tanked Nyx. And same would of course go for Wyvern vs Hel if the later get a damagebonus also. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
![Kraken Kill Kraken Kill](https://images.evetech.net/characters/543003985/portrait?size=64)
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 21:51:00 -
[656]
the Devs said the reason why it HAS to be torps for fighterbombers and not a suped up turret weapon was due to turret weapons being more effective against smaller ships like BS and there not being an easy way of differentiating the damage able to be delt onto BS vs Caps. the explosion Radius on missiles can effectively do this- a BS taking something like 20% of the damage from bombers compaired to caps.
all sorts of bizarro tracking and sig radius penalties, orbit speed and other factors would come into effect in making fighterZappers.
I like the buffed version of motherships. an ROF bonus to fighters and fighterbombers would be pretty crazy and spammy, but i quite like the idea of it :) I dont like the extra use of gang bonuses on supercarriers. If they are going to be supercarriers which are going to be used offensively I think the added gangbonuses would go to waste, its still going to be titans giving out big HP buffs and people in dedicated commandships running actual links. I cant see any way id want to fit anymore than 1 link at the most on a supercarrier in precious highslots when a commandship can be full of them insted.
There are already gangmod bonus ships out there. |
![Soleil Fournier Soleil Fournier](https://images.evetech.net/characters/212922291/portrait?size=64)
Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.01.05 23:35:00 -
[657]
Boosting command links racialy is the way to go! It gives SC a more unique role that is currently lacking, and both FCs and fleet members alike would look at us more favorably since we're giving them bonuses in return for supporting us.
10% per level is more worthwhile though...
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![EdFromHumanResources EdFromHumanResources](https://images.evetech.net/characters/840045499/portrait?size=64)
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.06 00:39:00 -
[658]
Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
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![Soleil Fournier Soleil Fournier](https://images.evetech.net/characters/212922291/portrait?size=64)
Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.01.06 00:57:00 -
[659]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
The ship needs to be more than a ship that does 2x dread damage from destroyable fighters. FCs will just say take 3 dreads instead of 1 SC and 3 triage carriers. That's a problem.
If a bonus to command links helps persuade FCs and fleet members to include us more and stop saying "WTF get out of fleet" then that's what I want.
It doesn't hurt get a bonus to command links within this design. It's still up to the pilot to use them. And if command link bonuses arn't what you like...provide a better suggestion.
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![EdFromHumanResources EdFromHumanResources](https://images.evetech.net/characters/840045499/portrait?size=64)
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.06 01:06:00 -
[660]
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 06/01/2010 01:06:52
Originally by: Soleil Fournier
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
The ship needs to be more than a ship that does 2x dread damage from destroyable fighters. FCs will just say take 3 dreads instead of 1 SC and 3 triage carriers. That's a problem.
If a bonus to command links helps persuade FCs and fleet members to include us more and stop saying "WTF get out of fleet" then that's what I want.
It doesn't hurt get a bonus to command links within this design. It's still up to the pilot to use them. And if command link bonuses arn't what you like...provide a better suggestion.
Only dumb ones will. Its does 2x the damage of a dread(that is close range fit) has the HP of a large pos, is ewar immune, can remote rep circlejerk, Remote ECM burst(Enough of these really **** a hostile fleet), and can deploy alongside even JDCV dreads going to their max jump range unlike titans. A few carriers or even a few motherships makes these nearly unkillable sans extreme lag.
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