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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:18:00 -
[1]
Hello, everyone. WeÆve made a few changes that we would like to give you a heads up about and get your feedback on. We will attempt to be as active in this thread as we can and reply to your feedback / answer questions. So, here is a short list of the important bits which will change from what is currently on TQ and appear on SiSi very soon:
Structure Signature Radius
Most importantly, weÆve changed the signature radius on all Control Towers and POS structures. You will find that all of these numbers have been increased to a minimum signature radius of 2000 so that all capital weapons are capable of doing full damage to their intended targets.
State Module Changes
We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.
The Triage module has had its duration and fuel consumption reduced by half.
Dreads
Dreadnaughts will receive their own signature radius bump that puts them in the same range as other capital ships. WeÆve also straightened up one other issue by returning the Naglfar to its primarily turret based bonuses.
Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
XL Turrets
XL turrets have been adjusted slightly to ensure their damage is balanced and to give the short range weapons a bit more range.
Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8 Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery: Damage mod to 12.75
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon: Optimal 30 / Falloff 15 Dual Giga Pulse Laser: Optimal 37.5 / Falloff 10 6x 2500mm Repeating Artillery: Optimal 25
Citadel Torps / Cruise
WeÆve changed several things here in order to balance these weapons with their turret counterparts and ensure they are doing the damage they are supposed to.
Citadel Torps: Velocity 1750; Explosion Radius 2000; Launcher RoF 34s Citadel Cruise: Velocity 4250; Explosion Radius 1750 Compact Torps: Damage 3000; Explosion Radius 1750
We are also adding faction Citadel Cruise Missiles as well. They will receive the same 10% damage bonus that the current faction citadel torpedoes receive.
Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
ò Fighter Bombers ò Hit Point boost ò Jump Range increase ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
Titans
A couple changes here to ensure all the titans are doing similar levels of damage, which they currently are not.
Ragnarok: Damage bonus to turrets to 125% Leviathan: RoF bonus remove;, Damage bonus to 125%
All of this will be going to SiSi in the next couple days. While future iteration on capitals is still possible, all of the above is what we consider to be updates and fixes to current issues. We look forward to your constructive and always enthusiastic feedback.
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium. Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:28:00 -
[2]
Yay!
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AtlantisX
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:32:00 -
[3]
Compact Torps? Explain!!!
w00t for sig changes, but I'll miss my epic cycle time on Citadels.
Still... looks totally awesome!
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:34:00 -
[4]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 21/12/2009 08:34:35
Originally by: AtlantisX Compact Torps? Explain!!!
That should actually read 'Compact Citadel Torps'. Oh well. It's the torps Fighter Bombers use.
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:37:00 -
[5]
Looks great really, thanks a ton. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Banlish
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Banlish on 21/12/2009 08:40:08 So the 10 million isk question on everyone's minds is going to be quite simple:
"How many fighter bombers will Super Carriers be allowed to use?"
That started the whole crapstorm last time, so heading that off at the pass might be a good question to start out with.
EDIT: spelling.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Banlish So the 10 million isk question on everyone's minds is going to be quite simple:
"How many fighter bombers will Super Carriers be allowed to use?"
That started the who crapstorm last time, so heading that off at the pass might be a good question to start out with.
20
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Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:39:00 -
[8]
Any more changes to titans? Its not very appealing only to sit in a pos bridging people, and occasionally jump in on a cynogen to gank a capital, then spending the next 10min warping around in circles.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:39:00 -
[9]
Great changes, cant wait ;) -
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NightHawk VenGarden
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:40:00 -
[10]
1st - hellz yeah 2nd - Please CCP, send Nozh to go do a company car wash or something...do not let him screw with this. Please...please....please. 3rd - hellz yeah --- "We're evil men in the gardens of paradise." - Col. Saul Tigh. |
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Treelox
Amarr Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:40:00 -
[11]
Hurray Abathur FREED!!!
Sig Zone
Signature picture is inappropriate. Please change. ~Weatherman
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Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:40:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 21/12/2009 08:46:06 Awaiting CCP Nozh to enter thread and wreck changes for epic failure
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Banlish
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:43:00 -
[13]
Since I got the first question in and answered, I'll roll the dice and hope I can get a second one in.
1. Will you guys still lower the costs of Super carriers as originally stated.
2. If yes to 1., then have you thought if you will reimburse the current super capital owners?
3. If yes to 2., can you give us even a 'hint' as to how?
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Banlish Since I got the first question in and answered, I'll roll the dice and hope I can get a second one in.
1. Will you guys still lower the costs of Super carriers as originally stated.
Just the removal of the clone vat bay components.
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wizzard66
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:44:00 -
[15]
Would be nice if the titans were not bumpable too. It's ridicilous that a single shuttle can bump a titan around.
Please change that too
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:44:00 -
[16]
Taking up a collection to send our good friend Nozh on a nice well needed and very LONG vacation! ______________________________
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Julio Torres Any more changes to titans? Its not very appealing only to sit in a pos bridging people, and occasionally jump in on a cynogen to gank a capital, then spending the next 10min warping around in circles.
After a week of fighting titans myself i gotta say the downward changes made to them seemed harsher then they really are. They still are a force stopper with the current DD version and XL Guns. What id change tho is the leviathan, it needs 2 utility slots and a bit more cpu.
Also Shield Supercaps still suffer from the shield bonus having to be repaired on jumpin, 37% is alot hp missing when jumping into a fight. -
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Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:46:00 -
[18]
On a serious note, has fighter bombers seen there HP or velocity increased? As previously on sisi the biggest issue with them was a single wave of 5-6 bombs would wipe out an entire blob of fighter bombers (and fighters for that matter) without any hope for recalling them in time let alone having the hp to justify the speculative prices of them being 50m+ each.
This might not be the place to get into the whole issue with bombers, certainly not, but having 5-6 bombers capable of neutering an entire fleet of carriers/moms seems a little out of step with the whole balancing act that see has taken up the last few months.
Just my 2isk
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Julio Torres Any more changes to titans? Its not very appealing only to sit in a pos bridging people, and occasionally jump in on a cynogen to gank a capital, then spending the next 10min warping around in circles.
I think they've pretty much decided on the superbeam titan weapons, we'll have to wait till they release new titan aoe weapons, like they said they would. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
xXxDianaxXx
REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:51:00 -
[20]
nice news can't wait
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Naughty Cat
Caldari ZER0. IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:52:00 -
[21]
Great job!
And please just leave Hel rep bonus "AS IS". It's ok for now -----------------------------------------------
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Balder Con
Caldari The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:53:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Balder Con on 21/12/2009 08:54:23 \0/ finaly super cariers can be used again . |
Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:53:00 -
[23]
Oh YES! Thank you CCP!
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Fylin Manslayer
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:53:00 -
[24]
So happy to see mothership changes! How long till 1.1 will be deployed?
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LiMu Bai
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:55:00 -
[25]
Will Supercarriers be able to dock @ 0.0 Playeroutposts (with special upgrade...) ?
No Char imprisonment plz.
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DaiTengu
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:57:00 -
[26]
So, supercarriers are now back to what they originally were going to be when they were first announced?
CCP QUIT PLAYING WITH MY HEART!
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mduncan0341
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:59:00 -
[27]
Edited by: mduncan0341 on 21/12/2009 09:02:31 I like. Make Hel's rep bonus for armor/Shield be 7.5% per lvl.
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Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
Originally by: Julio Torres Any more changes to titans? Its not very appealing only to sit in a pos bridging people, and occasionally jump in on a cynogen to gank a capital, then spending the next 10min warping around in circles.
I think they've pretty much decided on the superbeam titan weapons, we'll have to wait till they release new titan aoe weapons, like they said they would.
Where was this proposed?
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Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Banlish So the 10 million isk question on everyone's minds is going to be quite simple:
"How many fighter bombers will Super Carriers be allowed to use?"
That started the who crapstorm last time, so heading that off at the pass might be a good question to start out with.
20
So that's the native amount? You could get 25-26 with a full rack of DCU?
Just being sure...
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Hangman69
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:05:00 -
[30]
how many fighters are we going to be able to fit after 20 fighterbombers in a mothership. The FB volume needs to go down or drone bay size increase, or a fighter bay be put in to be able to fit 20 fb and 20 fighters if you haven't changed one of these factors already.
And having the FB missles have an explosion velocity that actually doesn't lose damage vs dreads is something that should have been in at the start. For these to get used like you seem to envision the titan, as cap killers, the dps from 1 ms with 20 fbs needs to be at least 2 dreads worth of damage.
The remote ecm burst needs to have a 20 second relock timer to what it hits, otherwise the heroics of warping moms in to ecm burst hics off of titans and other moms won't be feasible.
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Zeoliter
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:08:00 -
[31]
What DPS does 20 fighter bombers do?
Also, please keep the name "Motherships". Supercarriers are so dumb.
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Ilsea
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:17:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Zeoliter What DPS does 20 fighter bombers do?
Also, please keep the name "Motherships". Supercarriers are so dumb.
Please let the man keep the name mommy ship so his toon has something to be happy spending iskies on.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:18:00 -
[33]
fking finally
Structure signature radius: Good, one dire needed fix done after xx years of missiles not hitting them for full damage.
Module changes: Why the mass addition for them / howmuch is it? Good for triage, too.
Dreads: What is the exact net effect on the nag? Why couldn't you make it work with dual bonused weapon platforms?
XL turrets: Good to see long range DPS buffed a little, it was lacking. With these ranges and (I suppose) the new effect from the siege module, short range guns will actually be viable on dreads.
Citadel missiles: This change puts torpedo max range at just under 60km which, like the shortrange guns, is much more reasonable. However this still does not fix anything about capital ships able to significantly reduce the damage from citadel missiles by simply moving. And it still doesn't fix the total inability of citadel missiles to deal damage against non-capital targets, something that dreads don't really need, but the leviathan surely does. Gun titans can reliably hit non-moving sub BS ships due to the tracking formula, however missiles don't stand a chance, ever.
Motherships -> Supercarriers: Mixed feelings, but you know why.
Titans: Why only a buff to the rag and lev?
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Brennah
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:23:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Brennah on 21/12/2009 09:24:07
Originally by: Zeoliter What DPS does 20 fighter bombers do?
Also, please keep the name "Motherships". Supercarriers are so dumb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Enterprise_FS_Charles_de_Gaulle.jpg
One of these is a carrier, the other is a supercarrier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Ark_Royal_USS_Nimitz_Norfolk1_1978.jpeg
One of these is a carrier, the other is a supercarrier. They both perform the same function, carrying, launching and recovering aircraft. Motherships launch vessels or aircraft that can operate independently for periods of time away from the mothership. The way these ships perform are more like Supercarriers than a true mothership, so the new naming convention is more correct.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:31:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Brennah The way these ships perform are more like Supercarriers than a true mothership, so the new naming convention is more correct.
But it sounds significantly less awesome, and since when did EVE care for realism?
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Brennah
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Brennah The way these ships perform are more like Supercarriers than a true mothership, so the new naming convention is more correct.
But it sounds significantly less awesome, and since when did EVE care for realism?
Pirate motherships on the Somali coast will runaway from a Supercarrier and its escorts
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Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Brennah The way these ships perform are more like Supercarriers than a true mothership, so the new naming convention is more correct.
But it sounds significantly less awesome, and since when did EVE care for realism?
Assault Carriers would be a splendid name.
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Pomona Allannah
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Brennah The way these ships perform are more like Supercarriers than a true mothership, so the new naming convention is more correct.
But it sounds significantly less awesome, and since when did EVE care for realism?
Wasn't the idea here that the word "mothership" was driving too much thought process behind player expectations of the ship and what the ship actually was? Mothership weakly implies a "home base" setup, which was kinda given to us by the clone vat bays, yet no one used the clone vat bays, and living out of a mothership is painful at best. As it is, the populace has been using motherships as "supercarriers" the entire time, and the word supercarrier, while weaksauce, doesn't carry around any expectation baggage on how the ship is supposed to perform OTHER than "better than a carrier"?
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Aequitas Veritas
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:46:00 -
[39]
Titans Why would you want to fit guns on these ships when you do the damage of one single dread? Titans are usually in WC or FC posision so their fleet can benefit from their bonuses. If you want them to stay on the field there has to be a reason for them to be there and currently its better off as a drivebyship and fitting other modules like ganglinks / neuts / smartbombs.
Another problem is that Titans dont fit turret upgrade modules, so that your guns range will be lots less than that of a dread and thus useless for you to "sit with the fleet" and use XL turrets.
There is no incentive for fitting guns and staying on the field. Its sad that youll only see these ships on the field for 1 minute unless caught... Better to make them worth having on the field to battle over isnt it?
Some suggestions:
1 - Reduce the number of guns to 3 - Increase the damage mod to 200% - Some sort of optimal range bonus on these ships, let them be able to use close range weapons more efficiently or actually hit hostiles while staying on with the fleet. --> Keeps the damage the way it is now, but lets the Titan fill the fleet command role at the same time. With guns fitted it might stay, surely wont without.
2 - Keep the number of guns - Increase the damage output on guns to 200% - Also an optimal bonus. -->>Let the pilot choose between doing more damage than today and fill the role as a fleetcommand vessel.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Crimsonjade
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:48:00 -
[40]
Supercarriers. really need, along with titans, their own repair mods. 9600 repaired every 24 secs seems a little out of touch when a titan can do near 2 mil damage from one hit.
FREE MONGO PECK CCP |
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:49:00 -
[41]
hey hey
the day that i drop out of warp and DONT bounce i'll have your babies.
siege bumpage is a total nightmare but tbh it was and is the epic bump after landing on grid BEFORE hitting the siege mod. if we siege on land . . . will the mass effect cause a dramatic slowdown of the bump ?
also one of the really really really really really really daniel essig really anoying thing about being in siege and general pos bashing is the awfull mechanic of the sentry drones and their return to drone bay speed. could sentry return to bay speed be increased about 1000% ?
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BlackHorizon
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:04:00 -
[42]
Edited by: BlackHorizon on 21/12/2009 10:05:57 Give fighter bombers skewed tech 2 high racial resists (with current hitpoint values) so that remote repairing them in combat is actually worthwhile. This would also help the bomb situation somewhat.
Give the Hel a bonus to fighter bomber durability and mwd speed rather than RR amount.
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Vir Hellnamin
Gradient
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:04:00 -
[43]
Dedicated Pony Hangar and My Little Ponies(TM) Launchers for Hel! \o/ (...shoots those My Little Ponies(TM) kind of colourful ponies with wings and different coloured trails.) -- "Entering MH means instant death. It's worse than 0.0. Even the asteroids shoot back." - Alex Harumichi [GRD]
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Kradenko
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:08:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kradenko on 21/12/2009 10:10:54 Finally! My mothership will finally be used :D
5 questions:
1. Will you be fixing the model sizes? This has been a problem for a loong time. Even if you have to stretch the textures please size them up. 2. Will there be any changes made to the remote ECM Burst for the Mothership. As stated above I agree with the jamming ability vs the lock breaking. Also maybe make it grid wide? A Titans DD does vast amounts of damage why can this also not be used to do vast damage. 3. Will the skill requirements for Fighter bombers still be Fighters V? 4. Why is a name change needed? 5. Will there be a chance that Super Carriers can also be concidered a fleet ship? By this would they also be getting a fleet bonus like the Titans?
Thanks for this post.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:09:00 -
[45]
heads up abathur... i just fapped with happiness :)
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:14:00 -
[46]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 21/12/2009 10:14:24
Originally by: LiMu Bai Will Supercarriers be able to dock @ 0.0 Playeroutposts (with special upgrade...)?
There are no plans to allow docking at this time (and not anytime soon).
Originally by: Sokratesz Module changes: Why the mass addition for them / howmuch is it?
The current change has activation of the state modules multiplying the mass by a factor of 10.
Originally by: Sokratesz Dreads: What is the exact net effect on the nag?
Dread pilots will find that the Nag does superior overall damage than the other dreads without damage mods, but this advantage narrows as you increase the number of damage mods.
Originally by: Sokratesz Citadel missiles: This change puts torpedo max range at just under 60km which, like the shortrange guns, is much more reasonable. However this still does not fix anything about capital ships able to significantly reduce the damage from citadel missiles by simply moving. And it still doesn't fix the total inability of citadel missiles to deal damage against non-capital targets, something that dreads don't really need, but the leviathan surely does. Gun titans can reliably hit non-moving sub BS ships due to the tracking formula, however missiles don't stand a chance, ever.
I'd suggest you try testing these assumptions a bit, especially in the Leviathan.
Originally by: Sokratesz Titans: Why only a buff to the rag and lev?
It's actually not a buff but an adjustment to get them all doing the same level of damage.
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Aequitas Veritas
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:17:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 21/12/2009 10:17:29 Are there plans for other incentives for Titans to stay on the field?
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:19:00 -
[48]
i'm guessing MS's will recieve separate drone bays?
fighterbombers fighters drones
as proposed in the original dominion release?
this allows SC pilots to carry full racks of fighters and FB's and stops them from carrying 3000 hammerhead I's..?
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LiMu Bai
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:26:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 21/12/2009 10:14:24
Originally by: LiMu Bai Will Supercarriers be able to dock @ 0.0 Playeroutposts (with special upgrade...)?
There are no plans to allow docking at this time (and not anytime soon).
The problem is: Capital fleet operations are more or less rare in eve. Motherships are manly used only in those kinf of ops. It is just boring to force the pilot to stay in this ship forever. This ship needs to dock somehow to allow pilots to switch ships. Otherwise you cant really enjoy the game.
There might be issues regarding stupid docking games...so consider to let them only dock in 0.0 Outposts with a special upgrade and increase the redock time to some hours or whatever. This would circumvent those issues and actually allow MS -Pilots to play this game without alt accounts. Would be really nice.
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wizzard66
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:27:00 -
[50]
abathur?
Why not respond to my question: why not make titans also less bumpable???
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ArmyOfMe
Exotic Dancers Club
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:30:00 -
[51]
so basicly your changing motherships the way u first intended to change them?
wich was a change pretty much everyone said yes to in the first place
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Cpt Underpants
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:31:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Cpt Underpants on 21/12/2009 10:36:04
Originally by: CCP Abathur A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
For those viewing at home, lets summarise the current non-logistics based bonuses for each mothership:
Amarr: Aeon 5% per level bonus to armor resists.
Caldari: Wyvern 5% per level bonus to shield resists.
Gallente: Nyx 5% per level bonus to fighter damage.
Minmatar: Hel None
So in summary, we have 2 benefiting self defense, 1 benefiting offense and 1 benefiting defense of other ships.
I'd suggest one of the following options:
- Balance them by having 2 with the resists and 2 with damage bonus (ie: give Hel the same bonus as the Nyx
- Give the Hel a bonus to the effectivness of warfare link modules per level, thereby still providing the role of benefiting defense of other ships
- Often Minmatar ships are given a velocity or agility bonus per level, this may suit the hel but would need to be 10% per level to have much of an effect. (giving it 150m/s at level 5)
- Still remove the logistic bonus on the Hel but in exchange give it 7 low slots and 7 mid slots so it can be equally shield or armor tanked
- Give the Hel a bonus to fighter-bomber damage only of 5% per level and limit the Nyx to 5% per level only to fighters.
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Mendolorian Girl
Caldari Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Cpt Underpants Still remove the logistic bonus on the Hel but in exchange give it 7 low slots and 7 mid slots so it can be equally shield or armor tanked
Lol, cos that wouldn't be at all over powered /o\
Nice one Seleene, very pleased with these changes. These are exactly what should have been allowed to go through with Dominion. Looking forward to hearing an estimate of when this patch will be deployed, and also the video of you ***** slapping Nozh (which absolutely must exist surely?).
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Aquardat
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:40:00 -
[54]
May by change Hel bonus * 5% bonus to deployed Fighters’ RoF per level
?
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:47:00 -
[55]
Overall great changes. But what will happen when a dread is bumped out of siege then enters in-siege? Will it float for 1 trillion km dragging everything on its way?
Great improvement for naglfar. Still need to recalculate everything with new values to get a clear view of what all that means exactly.
I don t have a hel, only a nid. But oversizing the idea I could say YES other bonus is much needed.
As other suggested, might sound weird in a capital ship, but on a non webbable ship a LARGE speed bonus coudl work well. Side that with a NEEDED increase in mass of all motherships (so they have more inertia and harder to bump with a ceptor). Would be an interesting defensive measure for a Hel for example to be able to move at 170ms. Would help against dreadnaught guns, more than the resists bonsues from the aeon and wyvern, but would not help against sub capital weapons. That is an interesting balance. But the values would need to be tunned quite a bit to get something interesting and FAIR.
Other options are to try to give it offensive power. Something like 7.5% tracking and speed bonus to fighters (would make it a murder of support). But i prefer the speed one. Woudl be unique and interesting , a super capital with mobility enough to cross runnign near enemy dreads (with amss enough to not be bumped by an interceptor) .. that woould make EPIC movie content :)
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Den McConan
Caldari Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:48:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Den McConan on 21/12/2009 10:48:47 Why citadel torpedoes made such terrible? Now with the basic skill get torpedoes range of about 26-27 km, which is less than the radius of the field large POS. Other ships have sufficient stock to shoot and the stick and to protect.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:49:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 21/12/2009 10:52:11 THANK YOU.
Now please, please ensure that these changes go through this time.
Edit: as far as docking is concerned: what about allowing them to dock, but NOT to recharge shields/cap or repair while in station? Or even add a long (1 hour or more) timer before they can undock again? This would help with the annoyance of needing a second character to hold the mothership when you don't want to fly it (or take the huge risk of getting it stolen from a POS), but would remove the threat of invulnerable motherships playing station games. ----------- FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
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Jack Sparroxx
Reaper Industries Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:51:00 -
[58]
I have to say. Just as my faith in CCP was at an all time low, you CCP Abathur have proven that there is ligth at the end of the tunnel.
My questions are in reagards to motherhships, I know I'm probably not going to get an outright ansewer on them as of yet, but would be awsome to know if you are going to take some of the below questions in to consideration and if you have any thoughts on them?
1: Local Repair modules is pretty much redundtent with the current spec's, will there be any change to them? supercarrier bonus to reppers so that they equal a noaml triage carrier perhaps?
2: Will you boost orbit range, spped and hitpoint to fighters/fighter bombers? they are too easy to kill, and thus carrier/supercarriers will very easy to defang, not to mention a destoyed batch of fighterbombers or two will serious put a dent in to most peoples wallets. 300-400mill or so per flight of bombers?
3: The ECM burst module, also a pretty fail module at the moment, will you be looking in to making this worth while using on a supercarrier? a 20-30seconds relocking delay for the grid would be very nice.
And a side note, pls dont make them able to dock or make them significantly cheaper. they will multiply like horny rabbits, and hordes of RR Aeon's will be the order of the day.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:55:00 -
[59]
Ok since you are on it:
1) Any adjustments on the leviathan CPU output? 2) Is the leviathan with 6 launchers gona have the same output as the turret counterparts? If so everything is fine, since it can fit a bridge mod, if not its gona be either the lowest dps titan or it couldnt use it logistical backbone. 3) What about not instant shield gang bonuses?
________________________________________________
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David Khan
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:56:00 -
[60]
Thank you, I can resub some accounts soon.
You might consider giving the Hel a 7.5% raw shield amount/level increase to put its EHP on the same level as the Aeon/Wyvern.
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:57:00 -
[61]
Meh, Naglfar ready pilot here who just trained Amarr BS out of desperation. But it's good to see proper sense back at the ship balance department.
Also, in before CCP Nozh ****s over everything again.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:59:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Cpt Underpants
For those viewing at home, lets summarise the current non-logistics based bonuses for each mothership:
Amarr: Aeon 5% per level bonus to armor resists.
Caldari: Wyvern 5% per level bonus to shield resists.
Gallente: Nyx 5% per level bonus to fighter damage.
Minmatar: Hel None
So in summary, we have 2 benefiting self defense, 1 benefiting offense and 1 benefiting defense of other ships.
true, that's the very reason why it should be changed - i cant see a single person whos willing to use his mothership bonus rr others
dont get me wrong, most of moms got at least 1 rep/shield transferer and its working for them but i can hardly see hel using this bonus effectivly enough since its rarely seen to have ms with more than 1 rr mod and if i would want to actually do some remote repping i think nidhoggur will do just fine as losing it wont rly hurt this much
Originally by: Cpt Underpants
I'd suggest one of the following options:
- Balance them by having 2 with the resists and 2 with damage bonus (ie: give Hel the same bonus as the Nyx
- Give the Hel a bonus to the effectivness of warfare link modules per level, thereby still providing the role of benefiting defense of other ships
- Often Minmatar ships are given a velocity or agility bonus per level, this may suit the hel but would need to be 10% per level to have much of an effect. (giving it 150m/s at level 5)
- Still remove the logistic bonus on the Hel but in exchange give it 7 low slots and 7 mid slots so it can be equally shield or armor tanked
- Give the Hel a bonus to fighter-bomber damage only of 5% per level and limit the Nyx to 5% per level only to fighters.
sorry m8 but changes u proposed are rubbish :( ill try to make it simple :) - basicly it's like this: each ms gets a bonus suitable for the faction it was built for: - wyvern got resists bonus for shields as caldari got epic shield tank (and few ships actually gettning the same bonus among caldari ships), right? - aeon got resists for armor as amarr are epic armor tankers... - nyx got dmg bonus as galente got some fetish for drones and their dmg
it's true that minmatar has no real bonus atm so instead of trying to give it one of the useless bonuses from minmatar (who would want to have 150m/s at lvl5? it's not that u gonna outrun a dictor or something...) or lowers sig (it's not that ppl gonna be having trouble hitting u...)
So i would propose (as before) to change the RR AMOUNT bonus for Fighters/Fighter Bombers Hitpoints for lvl.
tho i know its still not the change i would want to have - u will be using fighters a lot, that's true, but it's only make hel a bit better but still doesnt get them inline with other motherships :( and getting them inline without copying other ships bonuses will be kinda hard :(
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Tradewars 2002
Tradewars2002
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:05:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Tradewars 2002 on 21/12/2009 11:04:44 I support, nay, I demand that this name change stick, so people stop calling them 'moms'
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Clinically
Gallente ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:08:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Clinically on 21/12/2009 11:09:36 Thank you for re-instating the Nag's 2nd turret bonus
the Hel is a tough one, the RR bonus is a little naff. Works very nicely with Triage and the Niddy, but without a triage module its a bit lacklustre. Some kind of bonus to fighter bomber HP/dmge/speed might be nice. Perhaps nyx keeps its dmge bonus but only to fighters, whereas the Hel gets the same bonus but only to fighter bombers?
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:08:00 -
[65]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
ò Fighter Bombers ò Hit Point boost ò Jump Range increase ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
Hmmm, this feels like a job only half done to me, especially concidering the Hel bonus. U pulled back in this topic before dominion in order to find a more defined role for this ships, a role that didn't blend this behemots among the carriers and dreads. What I see is the exact opposite of that statement and nothing new at all - in fact it's the other way around and less of an inovative idea that fails with giving this ships a special role.
Instead of removing the logistics bonus and giving it a battle-focused job U keep this crap to insure that U fail in your above mentioned intention. And to let Hel keep that bonus instead of giving it the very thought through bonus with Fighter Bomber torpedos explosion speed is very very lame. That is the bonus this ships need to not be mixed up with regular carriers.
Also as Bobby Atlas said - the Fighter Bombers vulnerability versus Stelth Bombers Bombs must be looked into - there are rather many Stealth Bomb Squads today and it's not very good if they can launch a handful of bombs for no isk worth at all and kill Fighter Bombers at about a Billion per SC's pilot who got ther FB's there.
I think the role of this ships should be remade to a more complete sense so that it get's a more clear role as something new. My earlier suggestion, that is a work made from others suggestions in large, is that it's made to a Flagship with fighting and leadership boost capabilities and no logistics role. Read the suggestion here:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=61#1820 _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:15:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Rainus Max on 21/12/2009 11:15:14 What about the proposed fighter and ammo bays (for carriers and dreads respectively) are they still inbound or have they been dumped?
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Aunt Tom
Dark Voodoo Cult Red Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:16:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Aunt Tom on 21/12/2009 11:16:45
"We will not jump across the abyss. We'll walk forward in a small steps" (c) ascribed to Mao Zedong
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Dreads Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
Very good change. After the Dominion 1.0 Nagl became a "skillpoints eater" -- the only dread requiring knowledge of 3 capital weapon systems.
But. may be you make the third step across the abyss? Remove 2 launcher hardpoints from Naglfar and add 1 turret hardpoint. "Its model have no place for turret?" This wasn't a problem in case of the latest change of the Typhoon for example. "How can it use a spare highslot?" Not a problem, always is possible to fit a salvager ;) Or we'll have a dread capable to fire a cyno.
Thank you! Voodoo people. Magic people. |
Misaki Yuuko
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:21:00 -
[68]
Great news!
What about shield bonuses, specially gets bad with supercarriers & titans, any chance they can be set to instant bonuses?
Armour tanked caps w/ slaves versus shield tankers may be also an issue that cna be looked up, but the existence of invul fields makes it less of a problem than the above.
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Glassback
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:23:00 -
[69]
Good.
Please keep these changes this time.
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Alexis Zalman
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:28:00 -
[70]
Fighter bombers(and fighters in particular) need a lot more work, they cost the same as T2 frigate, are a lot smaller, but still a lot more vulnerable to smartbombs and mostly SB bombs. Countering 10 supercarriers with a squad of 8 bombers sounds pretty stupid.
What they need is t2 resists(something comparable to combat recons) and faster response, with smaller sig raius.
And Hel needs to be completely re-worked, it needs an offensive bonus to be worth flying.
And well, reducing the cost at least by 20-25% would be good, as people are expected to actually risk these ships in cap battles, current prices are too high and instead of combat ships, they stay collection prizes.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:31:00 -
[71]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 21/12/2009 11:33:55
Originally by: Alexis Zalman And well, reducing the cost at least by 20-25% would be good, as people are expected to actually risk these ships in cap battles, current prices are too high and instead of combat ships, they stay collection prizes.
and what do u expect to give in exchange to ppl who bought Motherships with the old prices ?:) minerals in jita?
ppl obviously didnt buy ms so they can have clone vat bay or triage so removing those doesnt hurt this much and it doesnt require price reducing other than what was taken away by removing clone vat parts (if not at all)
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Luna Negra
FinFleet IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:31:00 -
[72]
Stamp of approval. _________________________ Gravity you win again! |
holding4sum1
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:36:00 -
[73]
I don't own one at the moment, but i wouldn't mind getting a nyx, BUT i would really like to be able to dock the *****....
And with the hel give it a bonus to FBombers Damage per LVL....
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:40:00 -
[74]
Originally by: LoveKebab
and what do u expect to give in exchange to ppl who bought Motherships with the old prices ?:) minerals in jita?
i own multiple motherships, and i'm happy enough with the changes to be not too fussed about any compensation. (i lose about 2.5b n build cost per ship) but my ships will now have the power and influence they deserve - which is all i can ask of CCP.
-rock
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The Kan
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:42:00 -
[75]
Thank you CCP Abathur. Now i can go back to my parked mommy again
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Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:44:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Clinically Edited by: Clinically on 21/12/2009 11:09:36 Thank you for re-instating the Nag's 2nd turret bonus
the Hel is a tough one, the RR bonus is a little naff. Works very nicely with Triage and the Niddy, but without a triage module its a bit lacklustre. Some kind of bonus to fighter bomber HP/dmge/speed might be nice. Perhaps nyx keeps its dmge bonus but only to fighters, whereas the Hel gets the same bonus but only to fighter bombers?
That would be rediculess because nyx's are the most advanced drone boats in eve period. They would get the bonus to fighter bombers. The hel should get the bonus to fighters only. Gallente are the superior drone users of the game. Drone specialized race. Would make no sense on a mimn ship to give it superior drone damage over a gallente ship, its race conflicting.
Amarr are all about armor tank and lasers, caldari are all about shield and missiles, gallente are all about DPS blasters and drones as a main weapon with massive drone bonuses, minmitar are all about mixed weapon platforms such as autos/drones/missiles and useing armor or shields as tank.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:48:00 -
[77]
Here's the most important question - does this mean the Malleus will reclaim its rightful place on all the Dominion banners/splashscreens/etc instead of the Brutix that CCP so hastily replaced it with after the Nozhpocalypse?
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:50:00 -
[78]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: LoveKebab
and what do u expect to give in exchange to ppl who bought Motherships with the old prices ?:) minerals in jita?
i own multiple motherships, and i'm happy enough with the changes to be not too fussed about any compensation. (i lose about 2.5b n build cost per ship) but my ships will now have the power and influence they deserve - which is all i can ask of CCP.
-rock
well maybe u r, but im not and im pretty sure im not the only1 since the last changes were postponed due to ppl not being happy about price reduction and ccp not knowing what to do to compensate players isk loss
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:02:00 -
[79]
Tears of joy! Finally our messiah is free again!!
Question though :)
Quote: The Triage module has had its duration and fuel consumption reduced by half.
So Triage timer is 2.5minutes? Just asking since it doesnt sound too bad to me :)
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HELIC0N ONE
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:03:00 -
[80]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Structure Signature Radius
Most importantly, weÆve changed the signature radius on all Control Towers and POS structures. You will find that all of these numbers have been increased to a minimum signature radius of 2000 so that all capital weapons are capable of doing full damage to their intended targets.
Oh good, I'll remove these target painters I had fitted!
Quote: State Module Changes
We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.
This is handy, although alot of bumping tends to happen when a fleet jumps to a cyno (and before the dreads have loaded grid or can activate siege), so it won't resolve the issue fully.
Quote: The Triage module has had its duration and fuel consumption reduced by half.
Nice
Quote: Dreads
Dreadnaughts will receive their own signature radius bump that puts them in the same range as other capital ships. WeÆve also straightened up one other issue by returning the Naglfar to its primarily turret based bonuses.
Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
oh god yes
Quote: XL Turrets
XL turrets have been adjusted slightly to ensure their damage is balanced and to give the short range weapons a bit more range.
Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8 Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery: Damage mod to 12.75
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon: Optimal 30 / Falloff 15 Dual Giga Pulse Laser: Optimal 37.5 / Falloff 10 6x 2500mm Repeating Artillery: Optimal 25
oh god oh god oh god MY NAGLFAR ahujhsusfshsfkkshfkssfk
this owns soooooooooo much
Quote: Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
ò Fighter Bombers ò Hit Point boost ò Jump Range increase ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
On the nidhoggur the remote rep bonus is awesome, but yeah, for a supercap 5% per level is not so hot, especially as other modules may be competing for those highslots. Bump it to 7.5 or even 10 and we might be in business.
Quote: Titans
A couple changes here to ensure all the titans are doing similar levels of damage, which they currently are not.
Ragnarok: Damage bonus to turrets to 125% Leviathan: RoF bonus remove;, Damage bonus to 125%
I still don't really think these do enough to justify a Titan sticking around on the battlefield when there are hostile caps present. From the past couple of weeks we've seen titans mostly used for hit-and-runs against dreads and carriers (and an unfortunate Nyx ), with them only really using the guns in environments where no dreads were to be seen.
Bump the default bonus up to 150% per level, with the Ragnarok and Leviathan perhaps getting 175%, and it might be worth fitting a rack of those XL guns and taking the ship along to a cap fight.
Is there any target date for Dominion 1.1? (hopefully 'when its ready' this time, but still)
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naamira
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:08:00 -
[81]
<3abatur
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Misaki Yuuko
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:12:00 -
[82]
About titans, why not an optimal bonus to guns/launchers, like 20% optimal bonus per level so they can use short ranged weapons effectivelly.
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Britomartida
Pumpkin Scissors DarkSide.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:20:00 -
[83]
How about this?
Minmatar: Hel 10% per level bonus to fighter speed.
More speed - more targets (many ships can just fly away from fighters on MWD), more damage as it reach their optimal faster. And speed bonus is pure minmatar style.
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Snake O'Donell
Gallente Situation Grey
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:21:00 -
[84]
Any particular reason why we aren't going to get the 5 minute triage module as originally stated? Or was that just missed in the post? Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
iP0D
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:21:00 -
[85]
Hmmm .... so what little incentive there is now to field Titans solo or with one or two others will be taken away in the light of fighter bombers melting them in under 60 seconds as during the fleet testing events on Sisi where the only practical means was found in bringing more Titans?
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Maule
Amarr Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:22:00 -
[86]
so we still arent fitting armor reps i see :P
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:23:00 -
[87]
Originally by: LoveKebab
well maybe u r, but im not and im pretty sure im not the only1 since the last changes were postponed due to ppl not being happy about price reduction and ccp not knowing what to do to compensate players isk loss
The whining from the price reduction you mention was not because of the comparatively small loss of the clone vat bays from the required materials. The actual whining came during the Reign of Nozh, where his projected build cost for a supercarrier was somewhere between 5 and 6 billion as opposed to 11-12 billion - under Nozh's changes, you could literally self-destruct your mothership pre-Dominion, rebuild it post-Dominion, and profit from the 40% base insurance. THAT is the price reduction that had people up in arms (among other things).
Did you even pay attention prepatch at all?
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Kaildoth
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:29:00 -
[88]
Can you assign fighter bombers like you assign regular fighters?
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CWevers
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:31:00 -
[89]
Hail Abathur our savior
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:35:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Cors on 21/12/2009 12:34:58 So what's the expected mineral cost on a Mother ship now?
And why no docking.
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VonKaplanek III
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:43:00 -
[91]
When is this planned for?
What is the hp buff? 200percent like titans?
Why remove triage?
*** must protect fighter bombers from Bombs ***
I bet that the gravity well from a Supercarrier would be such that it would dirupt the cloaking of any vessel within 50km wink wink nudge nudge :)
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:47:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Did you even pay attention prepatch at all?
yup :)
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:50:00 -
[93]
About the Hel...
If it were to keep the RR amount bonus, it would need to retain the ability to fit Triage modules, since non-triaged RRs are not all that useful in supercapital scenarios (this would open a can of worms we may want to keep sealed though).
The drone/fighter speed bonus mentioned would be nice, no doubt, but can not compete with the 25% resistances of Aeon/Wyvern.
Traditionally, in sub-capital world, Minmatar is about mobility. Increasing max speed doesn't help as long as we can not ram outposts, even at 200m/s levels. Increasing agility only helps to warp away after jumping to a cyno, but helps little in scenarios in which the Hel should be (ie, not alone).
So let's try improved capital mobility, which basically is jumprange. Carriers do have an edge over dreadnoughts here, and from that experience we know that in combined fleets it is simply ignored, as it is neither enough to skip a midway cyno nor worth the trouble of setting up a second cyno chain.
So, to be a useful mobility advantage, it has to be significant. Unpack the oxidized duct tape and strap on some Thukker modified plasma coils! Let's jump from Period Basis to Branch! Or not, but you get the idea. 25-30ly range would however open up nice options for the capital equivalent of Matari hit and run tactics, well hidden backup support from deep within friendly territory etc.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:51:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 21/12/2009 12:52:59 Very ... friendly way of writing it. Is this as close as CCP will ever come to admitting that Nozh ****ed up and that the current supercaps are ****ed ?
Also, i hope this :
Quote: A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
is not your way of pulling a Bethesda; making it look like your open to suggestions only to temporarely quelm the cries for blood.
PS: Repping bonus helps only in triage situations or where you have multiple of a single type. 1-2 Hel on the field - as opposed to 3-4 of any other race, doesn't mean **** when they have 1-2 Capital RR with 5% bonus to repp on each ... --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
Bagdon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:57:00 -
[95]
Nice toys to play with on sisi. When will Nozh publish the changes that will be in Dominion 1.1?
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:07:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Tappits on 21/12/2009 13:13:44 Edited by: Tappits on 21/12/2009 13:09:29
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Titans Titans are usually in WC or FC posision so their fleet can benefit from their bonuses. If you want them to stay on the field there has to be a reason for them to be
Sticks foot in. Make it so the titan Bonus only works on grid, :) then they have to be on the field. A HP tanked titan is not going to be primery any way as you just triage carriers on it which means its only in danger if your looseing the fight. In which case your bonus is not going to help at that point so you GTFO.
:) so now 99% of all titan people hate me :)
Love the Mothership changes even tho i have not been a *** and have been useing it in fleets hopeing to be hotdroped by titans so we can kill them i am loving the HP changes and the fighter bomber changes. Now i just need to spend 56days on Fighter bombers L5 and all will be well. But as people have said (BA) maybe give the fighter bomber skill two roles: 1: XX% fighter bomber damage per level??? (What ever its going to be) 2: 5-10% Fighter bomber HP per level????????? or 5-10%??? Fighter bomber speed per level???
Still killable by smartbombs if you leave them on a target, still popable by other drones and guns in an ok ish time but gives you a bit more time if you are recalling them before thay die
Ecm burst mod might need looking at in the nest year or so :) And tbo CCP can call them what ever thay like, We the players will still call them motherships till the end of time :)
PS a small targetable DD that fits on moms and can insta pop hics would be nice with a 60sec ROF @ L5 :)
Originally by: CCP Abathur Hello,
BabyÆs, Yours I will have. Available Any time. ---------------------------------------------- I fail At forums ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
Cold Burn
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:09:00 -
[97]
The only issue now that I see is that fighter bombers are a little bit weak against bombs and slow to recall, so no matter what if you have them out a couple of bombers will drop em, but I can live with that.
As far as the Hel goes: 5% increase in target painter effectiveness per level.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:11:00 -
[98]
while I say that someone in CCP finally made it good, I also have the feeling that we were epic trolled by CCP.
sorry Abathur, but it really looks like that ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Enidan Lost
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:11:00 -
[99]
I think I can fly with my Moros again into a fight <3 abathur
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pHenomena1337
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:19:00 -
[100]
very nice
---------------------------------------------
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:20:00 -
[101]
Abathur I love you... It's great news to see those changes come back and bring the much needed life to eve capital and super-cap warfare. Pity it took so much fighting and forum-rage, but at least the changes are back. I am still concerned as we can literally see them gone like 5min before the 1.1 goes live on TQ with no warning, but I am really ghoping some ppl in your office learned their lesson. Way to go, long live Abathur! \o/
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:25:00 -
[102]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Hello, everyone.
<3 you Abathur
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Callistus
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:26:00 -
[103]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
State Module Changes
We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.
Have you considered applying the same effect to the DD weapons for the duration that the titan is supposed to be immoblie?
And good to have you back ------------
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Iximos
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:30:00 -
[104]
Do not let Nozh anywhere near this tia
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:30:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Cold Burn The only issue now that I see is that fighter bombers are a little bit weak against bombs and slow to recall, so no matter what if you have them out a couple of bombers will drop em, but I can live with that.
As far as the Hel goes: 5% increase in target painter effectiveness per level.
might soudn funny.. but what abouta 50% TP bonus per level? :P THAT would make a hell of an effect.
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Vampiress
Minmatar The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:31:00 -
[106]
for the love of god make the naglfar with 3 guns 1 siege insteed of 2 crap torp launchers on it ...it is really **** ..either way u look at it and boosts moros drone dmg is like a dominix with sentry drone upgrades when it comes to drones :(
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xttz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:45:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Julio Torres Any more changes to titans? Its not very appealing only to sit in a pos bridging people, and occasionally jump in on a cynogen to gank a capital, then spending the next 10min warping around in circles.
You should probably learn to fly it then. I'm using mine daily in combat, and not just to doomsday.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:46:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Vampiress for the love of god make the naglfar with 3 guns 1 siege insteed of 2 crap torp launchers on it ...it is really **** ..either way u look at it and boosts moros drone dmg is like a dominix with sentry drone upgrades when it comes to drones :(
ccp already said they wil nto give it 3 turrets because of their production pipeline beign bottlenecked at art department.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:51:00 -
[109]
Lowsec doomsdays back please!
I can understand why you removed them to stop motherships being one-shotted but once the mothership hitpoint boost is back in can we have doomsdays re-enabled for lowsec. It was quite excellent to have an answer for station dock-gaming carriers.
True Knowledge |
glassmanipulator
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:55:00 -
[110]
It's about time you guys (ccp/noz/etc) start making an attempt to remotely listen to the majority opinion of your player base. +1 internets to you sirs.
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Dreads
Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
This is pretty nice.. a start.. how bout we just give the nag 3 turrets tho.. and 4 high's total removing one high slot.. giving it 16 slots total, on par with the rest of the dreads..
Many pilots have been asking for this for a long time for many obvious reasons I'm not gonna go over. Just a thought. I'd finally train for one. Split weapons has kept many people from ever wanting to fly them.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:58:00 -
[111]
YAY CCP Abathur was FREED!
- ON the Hel bonuses, the 5% per level remote rep amount isnt used particually much on a Mothership. The Nid especially with being able to traige can make use of all the benefits of 25% more rep, and with fitting many reppers. The Hel cannot Triage and if it has any fitted, will be fitting a minimum of Remote reps in highs really making this an irrelevent bonus.
Something more relevent please. A resistance bonus would be nice but unlikely i suppose. Also dont forget with the HP boost- to swap the current TQ armor and shield amounts when they get bonuses (more armor on TQ than shields atm). |
Virtuozzo
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:05:00 -
[112]
Does this mean the patch will include updated DD effect graphics, suitable for all graphical quality settings, as opposed to only the favored one looking somewhat decent and the rest being a bit of a joke?
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Dummy Jumper
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:05:00 -
[113]
RR Hel bonus is somewhat lacking imho. But most of the bonuses that are suitable for Capitals are already taken. What about jump-range bonus? So at lvl 5 it will have same range as carrier. This bonus is not always usable but at least it is unique and have some situations where it will be handy.
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Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:15:00 -
[114]
Posting to say I love Seleene.
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Rodent
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:22:00 -
[115]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: Julio Torres Any more changes to titans? Its not very appealing only to sit in a pos bridging people, and occasionally jump in on a cynogen to gank a capital, then spending the next 10min warping around in circles.
You should probably learn to fly it then. I'm using mine daily in combat, and not just to doomsday.
Indeed, I love my new toy :) Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to EVE Online. All content must be in good taste.Please revise your signature. Applebabe |
Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:28:00 -
[116]
Any chance we can see a slightly greater increase in the range of short range XL guns? Its still quite obvious that when long range guns using short range ammo can do more damage at a greater range than short range guns with long range ammo you wont be seeing the short range capital weapons being used in fleet engagements.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:30:00 -
[117]
Hail Abathur!
Death to Nozh!
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Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:41:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Bobby Atlas
On a serious note, has fighter bombers seen there HP or velocity increased? As previously on sisi the biggest issue with them was a single wave of 5-6 bombs would wipe out an entire blob of fighter bombers (and fighters for that matter) without any hope for recalling them in time let alone having the hp to justify the speculative prices of them being 50m+ each.
This might not be the place to get into the whole issue with bombers, certainly not, but having 5-6 bombers capable of neutering an entire fleet of carriers/moms seems a little out of step with the whole balancing act that ccp has taken up the last few months (especially when just about every major engagement now is seeing each side with 15-30 man dedicated bomber squads which by themselves have the ability to and have more than one cares to remember, end fights in there tracks).
OR as equally, the same problem, engaging fighters (and soon to be fighter bombers) against enemy capital fleet is often a one way trip as the enemy cap group simply orders carriers to start smart bombing and before you know it your fighters are waxed by 20-30 carriers within the enemy cap group covering a massive area with AOE smarty damage.
Just my 2isk
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Vanderie
Amarr Ignatium. Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:44:00 -
[119]
\o/
Winsauce. Everywhere.
-Van ----------
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Jon Brutor
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:45:00 -
[120]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
No one will be remote repping in a supercarrier, the bonus to res of the fighter bombers you had before was nice.
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c0rn1
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:51:00 -
[121]
<3 Abathur The one who knows what he's doing is back! Hooray! x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ...
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:53:00 -
[122]
Holy **** thanks CCP. Finally
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:55:00 -
[123]
I love you abathur!
*humps leg*
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maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:56:00 -
[124]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Dreads WeÆve also straightened up one other issue by returning the Naglfar to its primarily turret based bonuses.
Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
XL Turrets
XL turrets have been adjusted slightly to ensure their damage is balanced and to give the short range weapons a bit more range.
Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8 Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery: Damage mod to 12.75
Citadel Torps / Cruise
WeÆve changed several things here in order to balance these weapons with their turret counterparts and ensure they are doing the damage they are supposed to.
Citadel Torps: Velocity 1750; Explosion Radius 2000; Launcher RoF 34s Citadel Cruise: Velocity 4250; Explosion Radius 1750 Compact Torps: Damage 3000; Explosion Radius 1750
thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!!!!
i am jumping for joy right now, my naglfar can undock again!!!!!!1!!one!!11one! 0ok! |
Max Teranous
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:00:00 -
[125]
But but but you haven't mentioned target painters once
Max
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Enidan Lost
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:04:00 -
[126]
1. Will the supercarrier get an extra-bay just for the fighter/(-bombers)?
2. What will be the capacity of one fighterbomber?
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Capitain Hunt
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:04:00 -
[127]
MS becomes an sepperate Fighterbomber hangar to launch 20 fb and an standart hangar for the rest fighter and drones?
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Tiger Kior
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:06:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Bobby Atlas
On a serious note, has fighter bombers seen there HP or velocity increased? As previously on sisi the biggest issue with them was a single wave of 5-6 bombs would wipe out an entire blob of fighter bombers (and fighters for that matter) without any hope for recalling them in time let alone having the hp to justify the speculative prices of them being 50m+ each.
This might not be the place to get into the whole issue with bombers, certainly not, but having 5-6 bombers capable of neutering an entire fleet of carriers/moms seems a little out of step with the whole balancing act that ccp has taken up the last few months (especially when just about every major engagement now is seeing each side with 15-30 man dedicated bomber squads which by themselves have the ability to and have more than one cares to remember, end fights in there tracks).
OR as equally, the same problem, engaging fighters (and soon to be fighter bombers) against enemy capital fleet is often a one way trip as the enemy cap group simply orders carriers to start smart bombing and before you know it your fighters are waxed by 20-30 carriers within the enemy cap group covering a massive area with AOE smarty damage.
Just my 2isk
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:19:00 -
[129]
A stuff i posted before and got lost in the threadnaught:
One thing that is bugging me about the new supercarriers, is that while CCP admits that their main role will be anti-capital DPS, one of them is actually doing his job 25% better than the rest. It wasn't such an issue when the dps was low, but now it may become a problem and thats why it can be hard to balance the entire class ships later.
Except carriers i don't know if there is another precedent in game, of ships that are the same class, has the same role, but one of them surpass the rest in doing his job by such a huge margin and without significant downsides. And I'm not talking about rifters here.
I am well aware about the gallente drone tradition, but there are moments when you cant stick so close to the original concept because you will risk the entire balance.
In my experience with MMOs if there is some design flow, people tend to gear, equip (fit) TOWARD the flow, thus abusing it to the max. In this case a Nyx with full rack DCUs will be nearly twice better DPSer than his poor cousins that may not bother to use DCUs at all. And it kinda sucks to compensate low dps on a dps ship with slightly better tank.
I don't know if after awhile everybody will fly around in a Nyx, but I'm pretty sure that when the dust settle it will be the dominant supercarrier out there.
About the Hel, its not only the logistical bonuses, its the tank that need to be looked up. Its looks like the ship is designed for shield tanking but people tend to armor tank it with a better result. Devs need to come with a more clear view on that and give it the appropriate slot layout and tank bonuses.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:26:00 -
[130]
Fighter Bays
This is something we are looking into. If we cannot get this in for 1.1 then increasing the size of the current drone bays may happen.
Self-repair on Supercaps
At this time, we are not pursuing any sort of enhanced capability of this type. The HP boost is the result of watching these ships melt in under a minute to current EVE capital ship fleets. The survivability of these ships should not be measured in seconds; taking one down should be more memorable than opening another bag of potato chips. Titans and Supercarriers bring specific offensive advantages to a battlefield. If you want them to survive, support them properly. The additional hit points are intended to be a buffer that allow the ships enough time so that allies can come get them out of whatever mess they've gotten themselves into. If your fellow supercapital pilots make a habit of using their ships without proper support, that's bad.
Having said that, yes, we're aware of the issues concerning shield supercapitals / gang bonuses, etc... and are looking into possible solutions that does not include giving them zomg self-repair.
Fighter Bomber survivability
This is a tricky one because Fighter Bombers are already hovering around 20k raw hit points plus resists. That's more EHP than, for example, T2 fit Thorax. In that respect they are already fairly tough. They are also set to orbit at 7.5k which puts them outside of all but the most powerful smart bomb range. The design team is of the opinion that this issue is less about the Fighter Bombers and more about the Stealth Bombers / Smartbombs. No nerfs imminent, just letting you all know that we're looking at this problem from a larger perspective.
Misc comment about gang / Titan bonuses
At some point in the future, these bonuses are only going to work if the ship in question is on the grid with you. This isn't happening 'soon', but it is something we are looking into.
Originally by: Zeveron 1) Any adjustments on the leviathan CPU output?
What do you think would be 'fair'?
Originally by: Zeveron 2) Is the leviathan with 6 launchers gona have the same output as the turret counterparts?
1.) Remove 7th launcher. 2.) Balance against other Titans with 6 launchers.
This is possible. Feedback?
Originally by: Kaildoth Can you assign fighter bombers like you assign regular fighters?
No.
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: CCP Abathur
State Module Changes
We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.
Have you considered applying the same effect to the DD weapons for the duration that the titan is supposed to be immoblie?
No, but that's not a bad idea.
Originally by: Max Teranous But but but you haven't mentioned target painters once
Is this your suggestion for the Hel?
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Jasmin Rays
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:27:00 -
[131]
-dont forget the signature of outposts -pls increase exlosionvelocity for capitalmisiles or fix capital-bumping -will the supercarriers be able to dock?
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Random Asian
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:32:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Random Asian on 21/12/2009 15:35:01 Congratulations CCP, you've listened to the few people on your staff who have actual significant experience flying capital and supercapital ships instead of the idiot who revoked the changes who didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to capital/supercapital combat.
I honestly didn't expect you'd bring the changes back, so bravo on you for surprising me. As a capital pilot with 2 years in dreads and carriers and a soon to be supercapital pilot, these changes will significantly improve what I think is the most fun combat in eve online, capitals.
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c0rn1
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:41:00 -
[133]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Is this your suggestion for the Hel?
My suggestion for the Hel would be a 10% speed increase per level for it's fighters/fighter bombers since this would be the minmatar approach of things. Minmatar were always a little faster than most ships.
cheers
c0rn1 x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ...
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myEpic2
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:43:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Lowsec doomsdays back please!
I can understand why you removed them to stop motherships being one-shotted but once the mothership hitpoint boost is back in can we have doomsdays re-enabled for lowsec. It was quite excellent to have an answer for station dock-gaming carriers.
No thank you! Try 10 dreads instead.. At least it require a tiny bit of effort when ganking caps
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Vadinho
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:45:00 -
[135]
by jove i think hes got it[i]![i/]
welcome home seleene
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Barwinius
Ars ex Discordia
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:45:00 -
[136]
These changes seem reasonable at first glance. |
Xodius Raldari
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:49:00 -
[137]
Will you be making any changes to the ragnarok current ehp? Right now the balance is pretty terrible compared to armor titans or even leviathan.
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Lumy
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:52:00 -
[138]
Don't you think super-carriers should lose remote repair range bonuses altogether? They already have impressive anti-subcapital capabilities in form of drones and fighters, now they're getting anti-capital weapon. Cue insane amount HP and EW immunity on top.
People are getting more and more rich. I don't think this trend is going to stop. IMHO it's just matter of time until you'll see gangs of several (tens and more) supper-carriers with unbreakable spider tank. I mean, unbreakable to anything other than even more super-carriers.
As for Hel: Fighter and Fighter Bomber speed + tracking speed possible/useful?
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:53:00 -
[139]
Will titans be able to initiate warp, then activate DD, and still warp off or will activating the DD stop your warp drive no matter what?
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Max Teranous
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:53:00 -
[140]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Max Teranous But but but you haven't mentioned target painters once
Is this your suggestion for the Hel?
CCP troll, worst troll
Srs business tho, I say bin the RR bonus. Keeping it leaves a conflict in roles with normal carriers, just when you are attempting to give moms a distinct and seperate role. And even if you boost that bonus, it still does poor hp rep/sec when compared to a triage'd carrier.
I'd like to see a damage bonus TBH. Then you have 2 tanky moms, 2 ganky moms. Not that interesting, but certainly useful.
Max
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mean candy
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:54:00 -
[141]
/signed on the changes...
except.... the 5% rep bonus from the Hel just needs to be removed (i think we all agreed on this here).
so what makes the minmatar unique? i think the true answer would indeed be speed. 150m/s mommy makes u frown? well, what about the other minnie bonus they are known for then: 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level
oh and while we're at it... gang shield bonus really needs to applied instantly, throughout all the shipclasses. and while we're at it 2nd): did you ever think of balancing the slave/crystal sets considering slave bonus gets applied to a cap's armor but crystal bonus doesnt to cap shield boosters?
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ElvenLord
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Posted - 2009.12.21 15:56:00 -
[142]
Edited by: ElvenLord on 21/12/2009 15:56:41
Originally by: CCP Abathur If we cannot get this in for 1.1 then increasing the size of the current drone bays may happen.
It will need increasing no matter what tbh, just depends how much
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: CCP Abathur
State Module Changes
We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.
Have you considered applying the same effect to the DD weapons for the duration that the titan is supposed to be immoblie?
No, but that's not a bad idea.
And how about that mass starts doing something in the first place since, as already mentioned many times, a shuttle can still bum a titan
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:00:00 -
[143]
Hel bonus: +5% to fighter and fighter bomber top speed
This worthy?
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:00:00 -
[144]
My only question, since MS are going to be able to jump farther and can't dock to refuel, are they getting large fuel bays?
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TheAdj
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:01:00 -
[145]
Edited by: TheAdj on 21/12/2009 16:05:22 A boost patch with no nerfs, all about my favorite ships? I believe I'm in love with a former MC CEO.
I see supercarriers still doing repping in heavy combat or siege situations, when being unjammable makes them great for emergency reps. I like the rep bonus on the hel, but compared to the others it is rather bland. How about leaving the current rep bonus and adding something like a jumprange bonus, so it can keep up with carriers? The rep bonus isn't worthy of a supercarrier by itself since they're really losing the generic "I can do everything" abilities that carriers have and seem to be far more combat focused. Another consideration would be to make the rep bonus apply for all supercarriers for their respective racial repair types and give the hel the jumprange bonus (or something completely different).
*Edit: you covered this while I was thinking about a reply, feel free to ignore* Any chance of giving all supercarriers a bonus to fighter/fighter bomber hp per level or something to that effect? Bobby did bring up a good point about stealth bombers really being able to do a number on fighters. A speed increase to fighters/fighter bombers could work as well, since that would make the pilot have to respond fast enough to recall before the bombs hit. Smartbombs are already a major deterrent to large swarms of fighters, having 7 bombs kill fighters just seems kinda ridiculous.
You didn't list the base velocity of compact citadels, what is it? I'm assuming this is because it wasn't changed, but I have no idea what the current velocity is.
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GHOST TIMMER
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:02:00 -
[146]
Originally by: myEpic2
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Lowsec doomsdays back please!
I can understand why you removed them to stop motherships being one-shotted but once the mothership hitpoint boost is back in can we have doomsdays re-enabled for lowsec. It was quite excellent to have an answer for station dock-gaming carriers.
No thank you! Try 10 dreads instead.. At least it require a tiny bit of effort when ganking caps
Why not its just ppl problem if they wanna be fu**ing around in low sec trying to kill stuff. its your own fault if u die there atm carriers are indistructble on stations in low sec unless u have a huge dread gang even then they usualy manage to deagrro and dock up. ive seen 3 carriers with multi hic sit around a station that has litle dock radius killing every thing that comes out this sertanly counters that and makes these guys think 2 befor doing it. its a 50 - 100 bill isk ship it sould have some bonuses to killing sh** not just sit at a pos bridging stuff around.
[IMG]http://eve-files.com/dl/161206 |
Allan Corday
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:04:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Allan Corday on 21/12/2009 16:05:11
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Fighter Bomber survivability The design team is of the opinion that this issue is less about the Fighter Bombers and more about the Stealth Bombers / Smartbombs. No nerfs imminent, just letting you all know that we're looking at this problem from a larger perspective.
babby atlas gon cry. Navy ships have anti-aircraft defenses, yet carriers can fit ... smartbombs . Support ships need a role in fighter defense - which today is very limited since fighters can't be scrammed, webbed, or audibly primaried. Stealth Bomber bombs can fill another niche role of anti-fighter support.
Stealth Bomber wings are balanced compared to pre-Dominion doomsdays. It takes leadership to make bombing runs happen, it requires the right situation to use them, and it requires perfect timing. Damage is capped by the number of bombs in a wave and mitigated by blast range. It makes sense that the capsuleer analog to fighter-bombers (stealth bombers) should have devastating damage potential.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:04:00 -
[148]
Thx Abathur for you good replys you continuous trys to fix these Issues.
I really dont want to be picky, but i got one question:
When you change the Cit. Torp Launcher Rof from 26s to 34s, will this be compensated by additional Damage on the Torps?
If not, then the old 7.5% Proj.-Bonus on the Nagl might be Dps-wise more appropriate to compensate.
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Depili
Blood Works Inc. Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:20:00 -
[149]
Yay, finally some sense in the changes! Hope that CCP Nozh isn't in charge of anything anymore, but if you need to give him something to do put him on target painters.
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Sathrai
EXTERMINATUS. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:26:00 -
[150]
Abathur
One of my corpmates who suicided his Naglfar in protest after Dominion is currently looking very sheepish.
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Ruafo
Minmatar r.evolution 8 Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:27:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Ruafo on 21/12/2009 16:29:28
Originally by: CCP Abathur ... perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies? ...
As an confident minmatar carrier pilot i was always seeing the Nighoggur with it's bonus at the top of the carriers, because of bonuses consonant with it's role. But indeed with the changes the big brother hel will really suck.
My suggestion is to change the bonus to somekind of velocity increase or signature decreas bonuses. (Would be in line with minmatar roles) No not to the ship, please not!!!! We don't need another fastest super capital!!!
Assigne the bonus to the fighter bomber....
What do you think?
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L'Artest
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:36:00 -
[152]
The issue with Fighter Bombers is the same as drone dps period, is that it can easily be destroyed and not replaced, at great expense to the pilot. Even more so for mothership pilots as they cannot dock to replace their fighters like regular carriers. As an FC I would be putting all my sub-battleships on killing Fighter Bombers if there was a mothership of field. When 100 BCs and hacs are shooting fighter bombers, that T2 Throax HP won't save them, and then the mothership pilot is useless.
Also, jump range boost to make them equivalent to dreads please?
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Dire Lonestar
Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:39:00 -
[153]
Any rough idea of dominion 1.1 eta? Weeks? Months?
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Mr Opinions
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:40:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Mr Opinions on 21/12/2009 16:45:49 Edited by: Mr Opinions on 21/12/2009 16:41:19 Re: Hel bonuses: The previous idea for a bonus, decreased explosion radius for compact citadel torps from fighter bombers, wasn't bad, provided it still makes sense given the sig radius boost on dreads, structures, etc. In that setup it made Nyx best vs supercaps and the Hel best vs smaller caps like dreads. In any case it should be an offensive, dps-boosting bonus, which is different but complimentary to the Nyx bonus.
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L'Artest
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:46:00 -
[155]
Originally by: L'Artest The issue with Fighter Bombers is the same as drone dps period, is that it can easily be destroyed and not replaced, at great expense to the pilot. Even more so for mothership pilots as they cannot dock to replace their fighters like regular carriers. As an FC I would be putting all my sub-battleships on killing Fighter Bombers if there was a mothership of field. When 100 BCs and hacs are shooting fighter bombers, that T2 Throax HP won't save them, and then the mothership pilot is useless.
Also, jump range boost to make them equivalent to dreads please?
no one reads the bottom of the page
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:51:00 -
[156]
As a Naglfar pilot, I have to say thank you for seeing sense.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:57:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Max Teranous I'd like to see a damage bonus TBH. Then you have 2 tanky moms, 2 ganky moms. Not that interesting, but certainly useful.
Max
I also remember when motherships were announced back in.. 2006 afaik? or was it 07? I don't remember really.
but I remember that adding 1 or 2 XL turret slots to them was on the drawing board.
...maybe revisit that concept? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
quiiksilver
Gallente Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:57:00 -
[158]
All Excellent, I approve this post and these changes :)
also any rough timeframe on 1.1 deployment?
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GHOST TIMMER
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:05:00 -
[159]
And why do caldari pilot have to train 2 skills so that they can use both cruise and torps
when u have other that just have capital hybrit, energy, proj, and they can use both short and long range guns. would it not be fair to make just 1 capital skill "capital missle" skil and u can use both torp and cruise for a dread
[IMG]http://eve-files.com/dl/161206 |
Noghri ViR
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:12:00 -
[160]
Originally by: LiMu Bai Edited by: LiMu Bai on 21/12/2009 10:28:50
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 21/12/2009 10:14:24
Originally by: LiMu Bai Will Supercarriers be able to dock @ 0.0 Playeroutposts (with special upgrade...)?
There are no plans to allow docking at this time (and not anytime soon).
The problem is: Capital fleet operations which includes MS' are more or less rare in eve. Motherships are mainly used only for very special kinds of ops. It is just boring to force the pilot to stay in this ship forever to wait for this rare events. This ship needs to dock somehow to allow pilots to switch vessels. Otherwise you cant really enjoy the game.
There might be issues regarding stupid docking games...so consider to let them only dock in 0.0 Outposts with a special upgrade or increase the redock timeer to some hours or whatever. This would circumvent those issues and actually allow MS -Pilots to play this game without alt accounts. Would be really nice. And easy to implement.
You see docking for Supercarriers will never happen cause CCP loves money and this forces the pilot to get a second account just to play the game. --------------------------------------------- Noghri ViR for CSM Vote for me here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=28
http://noghri08.wordpress.com/ |
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Alessia Suvayarin
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:21:00 -
[161]
Quote: Why not its just ppl problem if they wanna be fu**ing around in low sec trying to kill stuff. its your own fault if u die there atm carriers are indistructble on stations in low sec unless u have a huge dread gang even then they usualy manage to deagrro and dock up. ive seen 3 carriers with multi hic sit around a station that has litle dock radius killing every thing that comes out this sertanly counters that and makes these guys think 2 befor doing it. its a 50 - 100 bill isk ship it sould have some bonuses to killing sh** not just sit at a pos bridging stuff around.
10 dreads will pop almost any carrier on station before it can dock if it's done right. So, that's not exactly a huge dread gang nowadays i would say. If there is more than one carrier and you have to expect RR then Falcons work quite well.
Not necessarily saying low-sec DD should be forbidden but you don't need it to solve the station humping problem.
Also, measuring a ships ability to kill things from its price is something that seems rather wrong to me personally and it's not like a Titan is reduced to a jump-bridge only with no kill potential in case the low-sec DD doesn't come back. It still works in 0.0 which is their main playground anyways.
So long o/
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keuel
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:28:00 -
[162]
Quote: Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8
Why not 6.3 that you said before on another topic? I think it suits better from the exchange of the 50% drones per lvl. Or just forget about the rail dmg mod and return the drone bonus to 50, or better, put 25% or 30% and let the 5.8x dmg on rails.
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Cpt JamesTKirk
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:31:00 -
[163]
with the removal of the clone vat bay, what is the build cost of the supercarriers ?
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Ammath
Amarr Burning Technologies Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:32:00 -
[164]
CAN YOU SMELL WHAT ABATHUR IS COOKIN????
*flexes*
And yes I want ponies.
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mineswallower
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:34:00 -
[165]
Awesomeness Abathur!!!
I might have to buy you an Apple TV remote controller as a mom buff, thank you present!!!
Can't we keep the mom name though please? "Supper carrier" is just dull, and has no innuendo attached like playing with your mom does.
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Khefron
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:35:00 -
[166]
I don't suppose you guys could make guided missile precision apply to Citadel Cruise Missiles, could you?
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:43:00 -
[167]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 21/12/2009 17:43:28
Originally by: Xodius Raldari Will you be making any changes to the ragnarok current ehp? Right now the balance is pretty terrible compared to armor titans or even leviathan.
Care to elaborate on this?
Originally by: keuel
Quote: Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8
Why not 6.3 that you said before on another topic? I think it suits better from the exchange of the 50% drones per lvl. Or just forget about the rail dmg mod and return the drone bonus to 50, or better, put 25% or 30% and let the 5.8x dmg on rails.
Or we could just balance the 1000mm damage against the other XL turrets regardless of what those silly drones are doing.
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Zeoliter
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:50:00 -
[168]
Doesn't take much skill and leadership to order 20 bombers to a titan under attack and bomb all the fighter bombers to hell. All you'll ever need is a bomber wing and supercarriers will never kill anything. All titans fit 8k smartbombs generally so they also going to get smartied to foook. Need more EHP, they need to be faster, and they need to do more damage.
Right now all this patch does is kill Supercarriers. Oooh, HP boost and oh shiney fighter bombers, let me jump into this cap fight and kill some dreads. Oh sheeeeet Clarence all my drones are dead and my 25m EHP is melting like an ice cube on a hot summer's day.
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Ammath
Amarr Burning Technologies Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:51:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Ammath on 21/12/2009 17:52:58 Where are we at with Fighter-Bombers?
Are these strike craft designed purely as anti-capital, or can they hit Battleship hulls effectively?
Also a question on Compact Torps... I know smartbombs were a concern with them, has this issue been looked at?
Lastly Stealth Bomber Bombs versus Fighter-Bombers how are we looking in terms of survivability?
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:55:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Ruafo
As an confident minmatar carrier pilot i was always seeing the Nighoggur with it's bonus at the top of the carriers, because of bonuses consonant with it's role. But indeed with the changes the big brother hel will really suck.
My suggestion is to change the bonus to somekind of velocity increase or signature decreas bonuses. (Would be in line with minmatar roles) No not to the ship, please not!!!! We don't need another fastest super capital!!!
i was just about to say "ROAMING SPEED!" but i saw that u didnt mean the ship but fighter bombers and fighters :) it could work - but it would have to be like 7.5% not 5% cuz it wouldnt rly give much boost whatsoever :/
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:57:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Zeoliter Doesn't take much skill and leadership to order 20 bombers to a titan under attack and bomb all the fighter bombers to hell. All you'll ever need is a bomber wing and supercarriers will never kill anything. All titans fit 8k smartbombs generally so they also going to get smartied to foook. Need more EHP, they need to be faster, and they need to do more damage.
Right now all this patch does is kill Supercarriers. Oooh, HP boost and oh shiney fighter bombers, let me jump into this cap fight and kill some dreads. Oh sheeeeet Clarence all my drones are dead and my 25m EHP is melting like an ice cube on a hot summer's day.
It wouldn't take much for US to kill the fighter bombers with bombs(And by us I mean Vee) but you guys seem to have enough trouble not bombing your own bombers.
But hey ya MS are worthless with 25m HP so never buy one TIA
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Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 17:57:00 -
[172]
One question - WHEN?
5 months?
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:00:00 -
[173]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 21/12/2009 18:01:06
Originally by: Mr Opinions Edited by: Mr Opinions on 21/12/2009 16:45:49 Edited by: Mr Opinions on 21/12/2009 16:41:19 Re: Hel bonuses: The previous idea for a bonus, decreased explosion radius for compact citadel torps from fighter bombers, wasn't bad, provided it still makes sense given the sig radius boost on dreads, structures, etc. In that setup it made Nyx best vs supercaps and the Hel best vs smaller caps like dreads. In any case it should be an offensive, dps-boosting bonus, which is different but complimentary to the Nyx bonus.
qft
// btw abathur - i hope ccp didnt let u out only for xmass m8 :P
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Xodius Raldari
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:01:00 -
[174]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 21/12/2009 17:43:28
Originally by: Xodius Raldari Will you be making any changes to the ragnarok current ehp? Right now the balance is pretty terrible compared to armor titans or even leviathan.
Care to elaborate on this?
Sure thing.
Right now on a very expensive Ragnarok you'll get about 42m ehp. Compared to an avatar (~58m) or an erebus with HG slaves (~48m). That's not including any gang bonuses at all.
Now say you have an erebus boosting the armor titans, when they jump into a system their EHP gain is instant. When you have a leviathan in gang the shield titans need reps or about a day to regen their shields and have proper EHP, which will still be way less than the armor titans.
Not even including the fact that 90% of nowadays carriers will go for CRAR and not CST's.
I could give proper numbers and fits if you want me to, but I guess you know how to EFT just as well as me.
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mentalmackem
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:02:00 -
[175]
any idea on fighterbomber prices?
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DOARota
Gallente BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:03:00 -
[176]
Edited by: DOARota on 21/12/2009 18:04:37 Welcome changes so far. You need to allow fighter bombers to shoot control towers as well. All titans need 25% turret/launcher damage increase. That will about do it.
Maybe not the leviathon, but the other 3 titans for sure.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:04:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Xodius Raldari
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 21/12/2009 17:43:28
Originally by: Xodius Raldari Will you be making any changes to the ragnarok current ehp? Right now the balance is pretty terrible compared to armor titans or even leviathan.
Care to elaborate on this?
Sure thing.
Right now on a very expensive Ragnarok you'll get about 42m ehp. Compared to an avatar (~58m) or an erebus with HG slaves (~48m). That's not including any gang bonuses at all.
Now say you have an erebus boosting the armor titans, when they jump into a system their EHP gain is instant. When you have a leviathan in gang the shield titans need reps or about a day to regen their shields and have proper EHP, which will still be way less than the armor titans.
That's a separate issue that needs fixing altogether.
Originally by: Xodius Raldari
Not even including the fact that 90% of nowadays carriers will go for CRAR and not CST's.
That's the failure of your chimera piltos (which should have 2), and your thanny and nid pilots (which should have one).
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Xodius Raldari
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:10:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Xodius Raldari on 21/12/2009 18:17:16 Edited by: Xodius Raldari on 21/12/2009 18:14:21
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Xodius Raldari
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 21/12/2009 17:43:28
Originally by: Xodius Raldari Will you be making any changes to the ragnarok current ehp? Right now the balance is pretty terrible compared to armor titans or even leviathan.
Care to elaborate on this?
Sure thing.
Right now on a very expensive Ragnarok you'll get about 42m ehp. Compared to an avatar (~58m) or an erebus with HG slaves (~48m). That's not including any gang bonuses at all.
Now say you have an erebus boosting the armor titans, when they jump into a system their EHP gain is instant. When you have a leviathan in gang the shield titans need reps or about a day to regen their shields and have proper EHP, which will still be way less than the armor titans.
That's a separate issue that needs fixing altogether.
Originally by: Xodius Raldari
Not even including the fact that 90% of nowadays carriers will go for CRAR and not CST's.
That's the failure of your chimera piltos (which should have 2), and your thanny and nid pilots (which should have one).
Sure, please explain to me why our thanny and nid pilots should have these when most fleet ships nowadays are armor tanked. Chimeras and phoenixes are barely seen in fleets due to the same fact I pointed out above (erebus/leviathan bonuses). You should go have a look at fleet fights in 0.0 larger than 100vs100 and check out the number of shield tanked capitals.
How is the shield titans's EHP (most importantly ragnarok) and shield regen issue not to be talked about here? This thread is called Capital Ships in Dominion 1.1.
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Noghri ViR
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:22:00 -
[179]
Abathur,
Care to elaborate on why supercarriers shouldn't be able to dock in 0.0 space after all the people that have been asking for this so they don't have to waste a character that's permentaly stuck in a ship that's only useful a handful of times every couple of months?
If not docking in stations, how about a POS mod of some kind that will allow the pilot to securely park their SC and get into another ship without having to worry about a thief taking their SC? --------------------------------------------- Noghri ViR for CSM Vote for me here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=28
http://noghri08.wordpress.com/ |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:23:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Noghri ViR Abathur,
Care to elaborate on why supercarriers shouldn't be able to dock in 0.0 space after all the people that have been asking for this so they don't have to waste a character that's permentaly stuck in a ship that's only useful a handful of times every couple of months?
If not docking in stations, how about a POS mod of some kind that will allow the pilot to securely park their SC and get into another ship without having to worry about a thief taking their SC?
They like having every MS pilot under the sun buzzing in their ear every time they **** them up. If we could dock we wouldn't be nearly as fervent.
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SATAN
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:27:00 -
[181]
*******--CCP Abathur--*******
Please look at the following points and suggestions.
Motherships (supercarriers)
1) Give them the ability to use fighter bombers on control towers, right now they cant do anything if you are pos bashing. Or give them a considerable sentry drone bonus so that they can at least do dread DPS to a control tower.
2) Reduce the module activation time on remote ECM bursts, make it so that they can fire the ECM burst every 5 min.
Titans (Have done extensive testing on all of them)
1) Boost DPS on 3 of them Rag, Avatar, Erebus. We have done the following tests to make sure the stats were fair to all titans used. a)Pilot was max skilled b)Damage mods used were the best on the market, 4 per ship. c)Pilot had the best affecting implants you can buy. d)Doomsday devices were not used in the comparison
And here are the results: Rag~9k DPS Avatar-10.5k DPS Erebus-11.8k DPS Levi-18.7k DPS
As you can see there is a big difference between the Levi and the rest, and besides a ship like a titan needs to do much more DPS your original concept of 225% per level for the damage was much closer than the current pathetic state.
2)On the Levi, you need to remove the 7th launcher. It needs 2 slots to make a titan fit complete jump bridge, Doomsday device.
3)Low sec Doomsdays need to be allowed, they can be tackled and killed in low sec why cant they defend them selves there as well?
4)And last but not least give titans the ability to hit small targets, with the current state of things a titan is defenseless against anything BS size and smaller, unless the pilot of the ship is not moving with his MWD on otherwise you just miss.
And last but NOT least, will CCP Nozh be changing everything in the last week before the patch is released again? Cause if he is this entire post/thread is completely and utterly useless.
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Kradenko
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:31:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Kradenko on 21/12/2009 18:31:44
Originally by: Kradenko Edited by: Kradenko on 21/12/2009 10:10:54 Finally! My mothership will finally be used :D
5 questions:
1. Will you be fixing the model sizes? This has been a problem for a loong time. Even if you have to stretch the textures please size them up. 2. Will there be any changes made to the remote ECM Burst for the Mothership. As stated above I agree with the jamming ability vs the lock breaking. Also maybe make it grid wide? A Titans DD does vast amounts of damage why can this also not be used to do vast damage. 3. Will the skill requirements for Fighter bombers still be Fighters V? 4. Why is a name change needed? 5. Will there be a chance that Super Carriers can also be concidered a fleet ship? By this would they also be getting a fleet bonus like the Titans?
Thanks for this post.
Please ;)
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xttz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:36:00 -
[183]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Xodius Raldari Will you be making any changes to the ragnarok current ehp? Right now the balance is pretty terrible compared to armor titans or even leviathan.
Care to elaborate on this?
Shield tanking supercaps, especially the Ragnarok and Hel have a couple of general issues that could use tweaks to keep them in balance with other supercaps in terms of EHP.
1. Shield HP fleet bonuses are not applied immediately like armour HP bonuses, but instead must regen/recharge. This means that any vessel based around a huge passive buffer shield tank is at a disadvantage after changing system or altering fleet structure. Leviathans can miss out on all of their 37.5% shield bonus in some situations. Any shield buffer-tanking supercapital has a disadvantage vs their armour tanking counterparts thanks to this issue.
2. The Ragnarok comes out significantly behind the Leviathan in terms of EHP with similar fits. The same is true for the Hel and Wyvern.
3. The cost of high meta level shield tanking modules. While a Levi/Wyvern can have comparable EHP to an armour tanking supercap with same meta level gear, the market cost for that high level gear is far far far higher. This is due to a combination of factors - including PVE'ers sucking up the shield gear market, differing drop rates and complex loot for shield vs armour mods. This is a larger balance issue outside the scope of supercaps, but it is something that should be taken into account when designing them.
4. Some people are whining about there not being enough room to fit 300-CPU Capital Shield Boosters on supercaps along with their other typical mods. They also don't like it that local reps take FIVE YEARS to repair the tanking layer. However this is all ok because who thinks thats supercaps need a local rep must have severe learning difficulties and probably shouldn't fly one. Could you please explain to the mouthbreathers why Supercaps should have a support fleet for damage repair and not be fit like Joe McPubbie's ratting Raven.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:38:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Xodius Raldari
Sure, please explain to me why our thanny and nid pilots should have these when most fleet ships nowadays are armor tanked. Chimeras and phoenixes are barely seen in fleets due to the same fact I pointed out above (erebus/leviathan bonuses). You should go have a look at fleet fights in 0.0 larger than 100vs100 and check out the number of shield tanked capitals.
Oh hello, most fleet ships are not armour tanked. It may not be 50/50 but there are plenty. (like 2 of the titans and 2 of the dreads f. ex)
Originally by: Xodius Raldari
How is the shield titans's EHP (most importantly ragnarok) and shield regen issue not to be talked about here? This thread is called Capital Ships in Dominion 1.1.
Sure you can talk about it but its been brought up numerous times and involves more than just the titans :)
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Sidus Sarmiang
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:39:00 -
[185]
The changes look really good so far.
As for the Hel bonus, maybe something that reduces the sig radius and increases the velocity of its drones? That'd improve their survivability especially against bombs without giving them that ehp bonus that you're worried about.
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Threestep
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:45:00 -
[186]
Dread changes look great, I love the triage changes.
Any chance we could either get the faction XL crystal drop rate upped or have them in LP stores or something (I assume they aren't there currently). There are very few of them on market and often none of some types.
As for the Hel bonus, how about some sort of smartbomb bonus. Being able to defend against other supercarriers seems like a unique and fun way to go.
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Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:46:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 21/12/2009 18:46:11 Agreeing with the fine gentleman (sidus) above me - drone speed / sig radius would be a decent idea to look at for the hel (hp boost for drones maybe not as good). The only alternative i can think off is a capital shield boost bonus (in-line with existing minmater ship bonuses that focus on active shield tanking).
With regard to the changes to Supercarriers - which is my primary interest - very happy with these. HP boost is absolutly essential. Fighter bombers is a very cool addition. Please can we maintain a good number of bombers (20) so that the supercaps become actually worth their expensive price tag.
After a very frustrating period where i have lost a lot of faith it is good to see some positive changes - my faith restored somewhat for now.
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Aaron Min
Genco Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 18:51:00 -
[188]
If the hel retains the rep amount bonus I'd like to see its range doubled, so that it can rep its fighters/bombers at great distances (boosting the rep bonus wouldn't hurt either). It also would be nice if it had a bonus to scan resolution or if the scan resolution could just be bumped up so that it doesn't take 20 secs to target your own fighters... though personally I think that you have a direct link to your fighters so target time should be less then 1 sec for all carriers.
Otherwise changing the bonus to something more offensive in nature would be nice. Seems like fighter bomber and fighter speed and agility would be nice along with the proper adjustment to fighter tracking. Something like a 25-50% per lvl speed bonus would actually be useful. Perhaps applying that to fighters would be too much.
Reducing the time to target for fighters and FB would mean that while direct damage wasn't increased your position on the battle field would be less important to ensure you can get damage on target quickly, which seems in line with minmatar ways of thinking.
considering the balance issue we would need to think about about the unmodified targeting range of the nyx which is 157km (the hel is 138km btw, which I don't understand that great disparity). And consider the speed of fighter bombers and fighters. For now I will just do fighters since I don't have the # handy for fighter bombers.
Max velocity for a templar is 2,125 m/s, which means for a templar to cross 157km would take 73 secs. At lvl 5 a nyx (assuming the fighers are already on the target) would do 36,500 more damage in the 73 secs that it would take fighters to cross the 157km distance. If the hel's templar could cross the 157 km distance in 1/2 or 1/3 of that time, I think you might find a fair balance. At 1/2 the cossing time, it would take the hel's fighters about 36.5 secs to get on the target , in the 36.5 secs that the nyx's fighters are moving across the field the hel would have done 73,000 damage, at t+1 we've would have 75,000 to 2500 from the nyx it will take an additional 150 secs for the nyx's fighters to catch the hel's. Operating at 75 kms it will take the nyx's fighters 35 secs to reach the target , the hel's fighters will reach the target in 17.5, it will take the nyx's fighters 70secs to catch up with damage once they reach the target. Operating at 30 kms it will take the nyx's fighters 14 secs to reach the target, 7 secs for the hel. It will take the nyx's fighters 28 secs to catch up.
Now,obviously the advantage of the hel's fighter speed would be reduced dependent on distance from the target, that is, if you are already on the target at 0 the hel would have no advantage except that fighters and fighter bombers would be difficult to outrun for most ships. Being able to use a super carrier at long range against a dread fleet could come in handy, but if it takes 5 mins for your fighter bombers to traverse the 150km range that just seems unreasonable.... after all, they have warp drives don't they? why wouldn't they just warp to the target...
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:08:00 -
[189]
Ya hey Abathur can we have some assurances that Nozh wont come in and **** everything we test(again)
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heile
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:09:00 -
[190]
Please Read My Suggestions CCP Titans
.The Rag, Erebus and Avatar are vastly down on DPS they need another 50% damage. So that they are closer to 17kDPS .Titan can be killed in Low sec it should be able to use it's DD in low sec so it can be able to defend itself. .Titans need to be able to track BS sized ships while they are moving so that they are worth fielding in battle.
Motherships
.Need an effective role against POS's they need to be able to do similar DPS to a dread or two to a POS after all they are super capitals. .If Motherships are not given an anti POS role the pilots who have Moms wont be able to participate properly. . Fighter bombers needs the equivalent DPS to two dreads, so around 9000DPS . Fighter bombers need adequate defenses to stealth bombers after all it's not right if a low risk fleet of 5 cheap ships shoots off 5 mils worth of bombs and blows up 1 bils worth of fighter bombers.
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Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:09:00 -
[191]
Is this thread a CCP Nozh free zone? Or should I expect him to pop in and ruin some good changes yet again?
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:16:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker Is this thread a CCP Nozh free zone? Or should I expect him to pop in and ruin some good changes yet again?
Lets see...
I doubt Nozh will show up in the forums anytime soon, even if he do that, no matter the reason he is posting he will be instantly target painted, marked and molested by the entire community.
And he deserve it.
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Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:18:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Lowsec doomsdays back please!
I can understand why you removed them to stop motherships being one-shotted but once the mothership hitpoint boost is back in can we have doomsdays re-enabled for lowsec. It was quite excellent to have an answer for station dock-gaming carriers.
Or you could try taking your Titan out of lowsec just once. -----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No.
-DB Preacher |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:20:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Reapeat Offender
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Lowsec doomsdays back please!
I can understand why you removed them to stop motherships being one-shotted but once the mothership hitpoint boost is back in can we have doomsdays re-enabled for lowsec. It was quite excellent to have an answer for station dock-gaming carriers.
Or you could try taking your Titan out of lowsec just once.
No way in hell that will happen. To both of these posts
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:21:00 -
[195]
Quote: What do you think would be 'fair'?
Atm having 7 launchers have to use a slot 7 fitting implant for a not state of the art (ie a 24% cap recharger, bcs i cannot fit a 28% or a 32%, same thing with the amp, invs etc). I have only 2.5 cpu left. If i take out the 7nth launcher and fit a jump bridge the difference is 12 cpu or somthing like that, so not big deal. So it must be somthing that allows you to fit 1x booster with 1 or 2 amps but prevents you fitting 2 boosters unless you do a specific fitting for that. I ve posted an example fitting on the original thread. And btw I dont think its a good think to force titan pilots use fitting implants just to fit a medicore setup.
Quote: 1.) Remove 7th launcher. 2.) Balance against other Titans with 6 launchers.
This is possible. Feedback?
You meen to try balance 6 turrets with bcus? Well lets leave out the cpu issue, how the hell you gona balance 1 turret with 500% bonus with 4 (even 5 mods)? And even if thats possible you know that leviathan is tanking using midslots right? So you either gona have a weak tank or a ypu gona need half an hour to jump out. I dont have a problem with that, but erebus and avatar dont have such problems.
My suggestion is to give to leviathan so much bonus more than the turret titans to balance it out with 6 launchers against the 6 turret titans.
I dont have any probs with what you suggesting about titan bonuses, even if its gona take looooooooooong time to implement it. But can shield bonuses be instant pls? ________________________________________________
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Qwert0
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:21:00 -
[196]
Any hope of fixing the issue that the capacitor and shield gang bonuses increase the max capacity without changing the actual amount? IE when a Leviathan jumps into a system, and gets its shield bonus applied, it can be 'missing' over a third of its shield hitpoints, with no hope of repping it back on its own due to the hp buff. This is a smaller problem with the normal siege warfare links as well.
Hell, if the passive tank bonus is too much, add a nerf to shield recharge rate or something, because going into battle with such a large chunk of hp missing is terrible. This would only make it on par to the armor gang bonuses after all.
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Herr Nerdstrom
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:29:00 -
[197]
Will the supercarriers be able to field fighters as well as fighter bombers? Being able to field BOTH would truly be worthy of the name super carrier, and also extend the roles and flexibility of the second largest ship class in eve.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:31:00 -
[198]
Quote: 4. Some people are whining about there not being enough room to fit 300-CPU Capital Shield Boosters on supercaps along with their other typical mods. They also don't like it that local reps take FIVE YEARS to repair the tanking layer. However this is all ok because who thinks thats supercaps need a local rep must have severe learning difficulties and probably shouldn't fly one. Could you please explain to the mouthbreathers why Supercaps should have a support fleet for damage repair and not be fit like Joe McPubbie's ratting Raven.
Yeah bcs I allways have my 20 triage carrier alts login in each time i wana play. And I allways like to play with -37.5% of my main tank. Its nice to play during a tz when your major enemy cannot hot drop you with 100erts of caps but thats not the case for every1. Not that the booster gona help me though but how many times you got out with 99% hull? Even that little helps. And yes you gona say resists are better than active tank, but if you do the math you gona see that on some cases they are on some others they arent. If you die ie after 15 mins you gona have boost more than 1-2% resist for a specific damage type. If you die in 2 mins nor the booster either the 50 triage carriers gona help you survive, whatever you have fitted. ________________________________________________
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:35:00 -
[199]
I will be taking off the shieldbooster of my lev and fitting something useful instead.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
darkmancer
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:59:00 -
[200]
Why are the cruise being nerfed? --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
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T'Karr
Minmatar Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:07:00 -
[201]
ABATHUR I F'ING LOVE YOU!!!!
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DIV Leader
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:09:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Noghri ViR Abathur,
Care to elaborate on why supercarriers shouldn't be able to dock in 0.0 space after all the people that have been asking for this so they don't have to waste a character that's permentaly stuck in a ship that's only useful a handful of times every couple of months?
If not docking in stations, how about a POS mod of some kind that will allow the pilot to securely park their SC and get into another ship without having to worry about a thief taking their SC?
Ever hear of a Capital Ship Maintenance Array?
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:11:00 -
[203]
Originally by: DIV Leader
Ever hear of a Capital Ship Maintenance Array?
You have no idea the pain in the ass you speak of.
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Ntrails
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:20:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Bobby Atlas
This might not be the place to get into the whole issue with bombers, certainly not, but having 5-6 bombers capable of neutering an entire fleet of carriers/moms seems a little out of step with the whole balancing act that ccp has taken up the last few months (especially when just about every major engagement now is seeing each side with 15-30 man dedicated bomber squads which by themselves have the ability to and have more than one cares to remember, end fights in there tracks).
Oddly enough most of the 'dedicated bomber squads' seem to be utterly ineffective at doing much more than decloaking each other and getting blown up....
Oh, and nice un-back-pedalling CCP, I'll donate to the Nozh holiday fund....
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Dri Kulsane
Amarr Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:32:00 -
[205]
Sincerely, thank you for your attention!
Regards, Dri
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groak
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:46:00 -
[206]
some1 give the man fresh virgin, he well deserves it Signature removed. Unsuitable for EVE forums. Navigator |
Jon Brutor
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:52:00 -
[207]
will fighters to V still be required?
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Darth Sith
Genbuku. Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:56:00 -
[208]
Originally by: NightHawk VenGarden 1st - hellz yeah 2nd - Please CCP, send Nozh to go do a company car wash or something...do not let him screw with this. Please...please....please. 3rd - hellz yeah
^^ This
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Noghri ViR
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.21 21:00:00 -
[209]
Originally by: DIV Leader
Originally by: Noghri ViR Abathur,
Care to elaborate on why supercarriers shouldn't be able to dock in 0.0 space after all the people that have been asking for this so they don't have to waste a character that's permentaly stuck in a ship that's only useful a handful of times every couple of months?
If not docking in stations, how about a POS mod of some kind that will allow the pilot to securely park their SC and get into another ship without having to worry about a thief taking their SC?
Ever hear of a Capital Ship Maintenance Array?
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about --------------------------------------------- Noghri ViR for CSM Vote for me here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=28
http://noghri08.wordpress.com/ |
Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 21:13:00 -
[210]
Thank you. This update looks to be such win that I will forgive you for calling my drones "silly".
Really though, what needed to be fixed was the re dock timer not the Moro's drone bonus. That's all Ill say since everything else is great.
A speed bonus for the Hel's fighters and bombers would be fitting though it would need a tracking bonus to go along with that.
Now back to saving my iskies for a moth.. er.. supercarrier.
Colonies and Capitals |
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LordSlay Them
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 21:30:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Trent Nichols
A speed bonus for the Hel's fighters and bombers would be fitting though it would need a tracking bonus to go along with that.
That is a great idea for the Hel, I would like to 2nd that.
Banlish raised a question about reimbursing the current mom pilots, my advice, figure costs of current ship part being taken away and make it an insurance payout or refund thing come in the mail to the current pilot/owner of the ship. For those in build queue already I would say as soon as a Pilot gets in it after completion it should payout then.
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.21 22:26:00 -
[212]
will ccp give us the production player the cost for the fighter bomber bpos and the fighter bomber skill book. 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.21 22:36:00 -
[213]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 21/12/2009 22:37:17
Originally by: heile Please DONT Read My Suggestions CCP Titans
1)The Rag, Erebus and Avatar are vastly down on DPS they need another 50% damage. So that they are closer to 17kDPS 2)Titan can be killed in Low sec it should be able to use it's DD in low sec so it can be able to defend itself. 3)Titans need to be able to track BS sized ships while they are moving so that they are worth fielding in battle.
1) lmao, let's make it clear - u can do 17k dps on a leviathan with FOUR ESTAMEL BCUs fitted... even then most of the capital ships got sig smaller than explo radius of the torps and dps is cut by at least 50% so it's in line with other titans 2) oh dear lord, and the fact it does 10k dps doesnt rly help with defending, right? its totally need a DD... so it can in order to defend itself kill carriers in dockrange from 249km 3) ... lolz, 10dps to a BS any1?
Originally by: heile
Motherships
1) Need an effective role against POS's they need to be able to do similar DPS to a dread or two to a POS after all they are super capitals. 2) If Motherships are not given an anti POS role the pilots who have Moms wont be able to participate properly. 3) Fighter bombers needs the equivalent DPS to two dreads, so around 9000DPS 4) Fighter bombers need adequate defenses to stealth bombers after all it's not right if a low risk fleet of 5 cheap ships shoots off 5 mils worth of bombs and blows up 1 bils worth of fighter bombers.
1) carriers are not ment to shoot poses so why a mothership has to do it? moms were supose to be anticapital ships from what i understand... 2) they wont be given an anti pos role... they are anti caps 3) why not 18k? since torp phoenis does 9k dps? (not to mention that in the current form they were ALREADY doing over 9k dps anyway with 20 bombers and max skills... 4) yea LETS MAKE THEM CLOAKING! lol
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
heile
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Posted - 2009.12.21 23:34:00 -
[214]
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 21/12/2009 22:37:17
Originally by: heile Please DONT Read My Suggestions CCP Titans
1)The Rag, Erebus and Avatar are vastly down on DPS they need another 50% damage. So that they are closer to 17kDPS 2)Titan can be killed in Low sec it should be able to use it's DD in low sec so it can be able to defend itself. 3)Titans need to be able to track BS sized ships while they are moving so that they are worth fielding in battle.
1) lmao, let's make it clear - u can do 17k dps on a leviathan with FOUR ESTAMEL BCUs fitted... even then most of the capital ships got sig smaller than explo radius of the torps and dps is cut by at least 50% so it's in line with other titans 2) oh dear lord, and the fact it does 10k dps doesnt rly help with defending, right? its totally need a DD... so it can in order to defend itself kill carriers in dockrange from 249km 3) ... lolz, 10dps to a BS any1?
Originally by: heile
Motherships
1) Need an effective role against POS's they need to be able to do similar DPS to a dread or two to a POS after all they are super capitals. 2) If Motherships are not given an anti POS role the pilots who have Moms wont be able to participate properly. 3) Fighter bombers needs the equivalent DPS to two dreads, so around 9000DPS 4) Fighter bombers need adequate defenses to stealth bombers after all it's not right if a low risk fleet of 5 cheap ships shoots off 5 mils worth of bombs and blows up 1 bils worth of fighter bombers.
1) carriers are not ment to shoot poses so why a mothership has to do it? moms were supose to be anticapital ships from what i understand... 2) they wont be given an anti pos role... they are anti caps 3) why not 18k? since torp phoenis does 9k dps? (not to mention that in the current form they were ALREADY doing over 9k dps anyway with 20 bombers and max skills... 4) yea LETS MAKE THEM CLOAKING! lol
OMG LK ty for truly wrecking my post
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Claudin
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Posted - 2009.12.21 23:36:00 -
[215]
How much will Supercarrier cost without the clone vat materials ? I heared arround 6b in the Dominion thread, is that right ?
rgds
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.12.21 23:42:00 -
[216]
About 1.8-2 bil less Material cost than now on TQ, but i think they'll sell at the same, so about 12-14bil.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.21 23:42:00 -
[217]
I can't express the amount of joy by seeing you return to the frontlines of the forums.
Thank you a bunch.
Do you promise that you won't leave us (I mean ME) ever again? Pretty please.
That Nozh-Guy was a bully and made me do things I deeply regret and won't ever speak of again in the future.
On topic: I see the way that you are taking with Capitals and do approve it.
Problems I see at the moment: We're playing (if we are playing the game) Battleships online. The game can be won by fielding the most blobbish amount of Battleships you can get your hands on and nothing much can change this.
It would be interesting in my opinion to make the roles of Caps and Battleships mutual exclusive but both necessary, i.e. Capitals are needed to actually destroy Sov holding structures (buff their HP like crazy), but making it a necessity to do so with proper support (meaning Battleships and stuff, which are fielded to kill the Caps).
Just my two cents without putting in much of effort at the moment. I gotta go to bed.
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jdubs
Rage For Order Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.21 23:58:00 -
[218]
With super carriers being so large it would be nice to be able to lock more than 6 targets.
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wizzard66
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 00:13:00 -
[219]
well third time is a charm
Can you PLEASE answer me: will the titans be less bumpable too?? A shuttle can bump it around. If its silly for dreads then why shouldnt it be for titans?
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L'Artest
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Posted - 2009.12.22 00:15:00 -
[220]
Originally by: wizzard66 well third time is a charm
Can you PLEASE answer me: will the titans be less bumpable too?? A shuttle can bump it around. If its silly for dreads then why shouldnt it be for titans?
I rammed a titan with a freighter and it flew a a rocketing 11m/s. Guess what a shuttle does?
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.12.22 00:26:00 -
[221]
Originally by: wizzard66 well third time is a charm
Can you PLEASE answer me: will the titans be less bumpable too?? A shuttle can bump it around. If its silly for dreads then why shouldnt it be for titans?
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh
HTFU
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 00:26:00 -
[222]
Originally by: wizzard66 well third time is a charm
Can you PLEASE answer me: will the titans be less bumpable too?? A shuttle can bump it around. If its silly for dreads then why shouldnt it be for titans?
I know you guys haven't had a titan for a while but they aren't terribly bumpable anymore.
Abathur are we going to be seeing an increase in MS size? Specifically the wyvern since it's smaller than a phoenix.
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Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 00:27:00 -
[223]
CCP Abathur: the reality of the matter is that no one is using titans during a tight battle, whatever goons might want to pretend they only use titan when they already have a significant advantage on the field ( I am not blaming them) against coventional or when some one will be doing some ganking.
I fully understand that you cannot nor should really improve the titan tracking speed as it would be silly overpowered against conventional fleet giving their current EHP boost.
Having said that you need to give them a boost, I am unsure what boost if it should be logistical or damage but they need a boost in some way its not normal that their market price has drop to 55 B when sov 4 are gone.
Idea 1: give them their own siege module with the same penalty as a dread and 300% damage bonus?
Idea 2: increase their leadership bonuss by 2 if they are present on the same grid.
Idea 3: reduce the DD timer to 5 minute
I am sure a lot of people have a lot of ideas and should be listened to make them actually useful again
In regards to the leviathan it needs 150 cpu more, and you need to look at the instant damage.
In regards to ragnarock: its effective EHP needs to be boosted by 20/30 % to make it lvl with the other titans
Armor Vs Shield: the armor titans have a higher EHP with a much smaller investment, eventough I guess this is okey because those can out rep the armor one it still leaves the shield bonus ( not instant) to be fixed please
Thanks
___ Fear the french touch.
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DamienEx
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 00:46:00 -
[224]
I have asked the guy in my corp to put in some input when it comes to some of the changes. We also have a few questions that we wish to address as well.
First, while happy that the Naglfar is getting its bonuses back, it seems that dropping the launchers for the third hard point seem to be popular amongst everyone. Can we address whether or not this is going to be looked into, considered, or if there is some reason that the Naglfar still has two weapon systems. That or consider this, give it the option to fit any combination of 3 turrets or 3 missile hard points with 4 high slots, 1 for siege mod and the other 3 for weapons. This way the pilots who have already trained up cit torps/cit cruise havent wasted the training and can still use it at a viable weapon.
Second, can you provide an official guesstimate for the price of supercarriers seeing as ive seen anything from 6Bil to 20Bil as a cost.
Third, ive seen a few post made in regards to Caldari pilots training two skills for capital weapons systems, and three for Minmatar (Cit torps/cruise). Can you address the possibility of reducing this to one skill to be in line with the other capital weapons systems and taking more of a burden off of the Naglfar is changes are not made to its weapons system.
Fourth, the Leviathan's CPU output. If you make the change with the launcher layout and provide a boost to damage, then the CPU would still need to be boosted, say from base 1250 to 1350. When boosted by lvl 5 skills it would provide a total CPU output of 1687.5 as opposed to 1562.5. This allows for a full T2 fitting, + Jump Portal Generator and Doomsday. I know its not 'official' but I EFT fit the other Titans in the same/similar fashion with all skills to level 5 and they seem to have no problem fully fitting T2 fits with damage mods and the Titan specific mods. Also, look into giving those Cit torps and cruise missile a velocity bonus on the Leviathan. This will help with the whole "instant hit" problem us Caldari pilots get to deal with.
Fifth, seeing as the Supercarriers are getting an HP boost, bring back the usage of Doomsdays in low sec. Also, Will fighter bombers be able to be used in low sec. Would seem odd with all these changes not to bring the Doomsday in low-sec back or have the use of Fighter bombers in low-sec either. If Titans and Supercarriers cant use their weapons in low sec, then maybe you should make it where Dreads cant siege in low sec and carriers cant deploy fighters, this way the playing field is leveled. Instead of gimping some of the caps in lowsec and leaving the rest unchanged, make it so they can either be fully used in lowsec, or make it so the offensive capabilities are removed from low-sec completely.
If anyone has any feed back or comments on the titans I more than welcome them seeing as I have only ever had first hand experience with Carriers, Supercarriers, and Dreadnoughts.
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:01:00 -
[225]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Structure Signature Radius
Most importantly, weÆve changed the signature radius on all Control Towers and POS structures. You will find that all of these numbers have been increased to a minimum signature radius of 2000 so that all capital weapons are capable of doing full damage to their intended targets.
thank god
Originally by: CCP Abathur
State Module Changes
We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.
The Triage module has had its duration and fuel consumption reduced by half.
1) doesnt completly fix bumping but good 2) so its a 0 sum game ? carriers still have to use the corp hangar for fuel :/
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Dreads
Dreadnaughts will receive their own signature radius bump that puts them in the same range as other capital ships. WeÆve also straightened up one other issue by returning the Naglfar to its primarily turret based bonuses.
Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
thank you
Originally by: CCP Abathur
XL Turrets
XL turrets have been adjusted slightly to ensure their damage is balanced and to give the short range weapons a bit more range.
Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8 Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery: Damage mod to 12.75
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon: Optimal 30 / Falloff 15 Dual Giga Pulse Laser: Optimal 37.5 / Falloff 10 6x 2500mm Repeating Artillery: Optimal 25
Hohumm ... gona ahve to play with that before i can comment propperly
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Citadel Torps / Cruise
WeÆve changed several things here in order to balance these weapons with their turret counterparts and ensure they are doing the damage they are supposed to.
Citadel Torps: Velocity 1750; Explosion Radius 2000; Launcher RoF 34s Citadel Cruise: Velocity 4250; Explosion Radius 1750 Compact Torps: Damage 3000; Explosion Radius 1750
We are also adding faction Citadel Cruise Missiles as well. They will receive the same 10% damage bonus that the current faction citadel torpedoes receive.
again need to play with it see how it pans out
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
ò Fighter Bombers ò Hit Point boost ò Jump Range increase ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
- Its getting less and less appealing to pilot such a prison (not that the clone vats where that usefull in their implementation)
- Fighters / Fighterbombers could do with a HP increase
- With the HP boost on the moms capital reps seem pretty worthless as opposed to buffer tanking
- Hel needs a more proactive bonus some suggestions : add a -5% cap use for rr's to the 5% amount or go completly diffrent and give it a boost to velocity of fighters/bombers
- id love to see an increase in cha/sma aswell so it wont be necesarry to call em supercarriers instead of motherships
probably can balance the material requirements of the ships out wiht the loss of the clone vats somehow
think thats my thoughts for now
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:17:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 22/12/2009 01:20:05 Thank you for realizing this needed immidiate attention and not waiting til the next expansion to address.
Could you elaborate though, please? These supercarrier changes look almost exactly what u originally proposed. Why go through the Nohz changes, then pull from dominion, only to add them back in without much difference?
I still feel that supercarriers lack a unique role, and lack benefit to the fleet. Sure, I can kill things fast. But the fleet has to setup around me....see: triage carriers whos pilots might have been in dreads otherwise. I would like to see us get bonuses to our gang links so that we benefit the fleet in different ways than "moar damage".
But again, this is infantely better than the Nohz changes and what's currently on live, so thank you!
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Teck7
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:19:00 -
[227]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Fighter Bomber survivability
This is a tricky one because Fighter Bombers are already hovering around 20k raw hit points plus resists. That's more EHP than, for example, T2 fit Thorax. In that respect they are already fairly tough. They are also set to orbit at 7.5k which puts them outside of all but the most powerful smart bomb range. The design team is of the opinion that this issue is less about the Fighter Bombers and more about the Stealth Bombers / Smartbombs. No nerfs imminent, just letting you all know that we're looking at this problem from a larger perspective.
The point in case is not that fighter bombers can orbit outside the range of all but officer smarties, that really is only a point of contention when your talking about ganking one or a couple of carriers/supercaps.... Putting a mother ship into an actual capital fleet engagement was the point made, that fighters/fighter bombers sent to attack primary targets or any targets within the hostile capital blob will die almost immediately to the massive area of coverage of the capital groups smart bombs. Example would be 50 enemy caps, 20 carriers, the carriers are always going to be very spread amongst the blob creating a very large area of effect washed with smartbomb damage that waxes anything that comes into it. Its not unlike the crappy tactic of using a smartbombing carrier blob to take out clustered group of modules on a pos, hitting up to 15-20 modules at a time or more (just using this as an example of the power of smartbombs in capital groups).
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Rodent
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:22:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Fire Hawk CCP Abathur: the reality of the matter is that no one is using titans during a tight battle, whatever goons might want to pretend they only use titan when they already have a significant advantage on the field ( I am not blaming them) against coventional or when some one will be doing some ganking.
I fully understand that you cannot nor should really improve the titan tracking speed as it would be silly overpowered against conventional fleet giving their current EHP boost.
You're dumb as a doorknob. How about actually testing your Erebus in actual combat and see how great it is instead of theorycrafting over stuff that has no root in reality? Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to EVE Online. All content must be in good taste.Please revise your signature. Applebabe |
Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:24:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 22/12/2009 01:24:06 Agreed with Tech7. 7.5km works when talking about a single ship. I'm cool with that.
But in fleet fights you'll be going against blobs of carriers, so even though the primary won't hit them with smarties, the 6 carriers surrounding him will.
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua BiffCo.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:24:00 -
[230]
I think Hic's need looking at tbh. The way 1 can keep a supercapital locked down is a bit stupid (yes the phobos can't but wow means its the only 1 not stupidly overpowerfull). The interdiction bubbles effecting them is a bit much imo and Hic's with a focused interdiction mod should be the only 100% scramble on a super capital. Maybe some form of warp core recallibration time for being bubbled like 30's or sumthing would work.
Allowing a dictor to get a scramble well a hic is fielded.
Even that said i would still say some hic's are way to well tankable. And to kill a supercapital you should be expecting to lose 2-3 Hic's atleast (depending on time it takes to kill ect ect) vs a supercapital with minmal support.
Before every one screams blue murder at me. Consider the hic's role. Right now they are imo a bit to slow and heavy for gate to gate use. In most cases a dictor does the job better and faster.
Hictor's were introduced in order to counter motherships on gates/rampaging round in lowsec ect ect. Yet their 1 Roll feature (the focus diction) is barely used. And instead the bubble gets used to abuse it's roll.
In my eye's this change would: Encourage fielding of the supercapitals as desired in places desired (big fleet fights) Give the Hic a purpose roll so there is a tactical reason to be in 1. Make the Remote ECM Burst a valid module. Balance the size/risk of supercapital vs Hictor/dictor.
combined with these 1.1 changes we may actually get a valid fleet mechanic for supercapitals. And a fair counter.
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:58:00 -
[231]
Or you would simply see hictor fits designed to fly by at 3-4k/s, put a hictor point on something for a moment then immediately turn it back off again and buzz away letting the previous velocity carry it out of nuet range of the supercap. Since you no longer need a sustained point you wont see them being employed.
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Tetovo
Caldari Burning Technologies Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:07:00 -
[232]
thats really nice can I get my AB bonus back on my ishkur
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:12:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Teck7
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Fighter Bomber survivability
This is a tricky one because Fighter Bombers are already hovering around 20k raw hit points plus resists. That's more EHP than, for example, T2 fit Thorax. In that respect they are already fairly tough. They are also set to orbit at 7.5k which puts them outside of all but the most powerful smart bomb range. The design team is of the opinion that this issue is less about the Fighter Bombers and more about the Stealth Bombers / Smartbombs. No nerfs imminent, just letting you all know that we're looking at this problem from a larger perspective.
The point in case is not that fighter bombers can orbit outside the range of all but officer smarties, that really is only a point of contention when your talking about ganking one or a couple of carriers/supercaps.... Putting a mother ship into an actual capital fleet engagement was the point made, that fighters/fighter bombers sent to attack primary targets or any targets within the hostile capital blob will die almost immediately to the massive area of coverage of the capital groups smart bombs. Example would be 50 enemy caps, 20 carriers, the carriers are always going to be very spread amongst the blob creating a very large area of effect washed with smartbomb damage that waxes anything that comes into it. Its not unlike the crappy tactic of using a smartbombing carrier blob to take out clustered group of modules on a pos, hitting up to 15-20 modules at a time or more (just using this as an example of the power of smartbombs in capital groups).
I'm thinking out loud now.
But can't this be solved if the Fighter Bombers get's a change into a giant Sentry Drone (but WITH a return to ship engine, perhaps even a follow command).
Then the Super Carrier pilots at least just have to be aware of Stealth Bombers trying to make popcorn out of their one billion iskies swarm. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Facepalm
Amarr Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:13:00 -
[234]
Doesn't look like much has changed from the initial Dominion devblog on caps. What made CCP change its mind about the latter changes to SC balance to just turn around and revert them verbatim?
Makes me think moms are still in for a world of "balancing" in the near future. Drop all the current ideas, start from scratch, and get it right the FIRST(ish) time while you still have the opportunity IMO.
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Rivek
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:47:00 -
[235]
Not counting the DD, Titans hit like wet noodles.
Damage: Restore the 200-225% per level gun bonuses as appropriate to make them dangerous to other capitals without the use of their DD.
Range: Give Titans range bonuses in the form of +X% optimal & falloff for avatar, erebus, & ragnarok and +X% missile velocity for the leviathan. Titans shooting the same (or often less) distances than dreads (one heck of a downgrade from them) doesn't make sense.
Tracking: I'd love to see tracking bonuses or unnerfed tracking on XL weapons, but it is most probably overpowering vs smaller vessels. The other two (damage & range) make a lot more sense in terms of making the Titan dangerous to capitals.
P.S. Glad you guys regained some sense. |
jm24
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 04:16:00 -
[236]
Edited by: jm24 on 22/12/2009 04:23:16
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Xodius Raldari Will you be making any changes to the ragnarok current ehp? Right now the balance is pretty terrible compared to armor titans or even leviathan.
Care to elaborate on this?
3. The cost of high meta level shield tanking modules. While a Levi/Wyvern can have comparable EHP to an armour tanking supercap with same meta level gear, the market cost for that high level gear is far far far higher. This is due to a combination of factors - including PVE'ers sucking up the shield gear market, differing drop rates and complex loot for shield vs armour mods. This is a larger balance issue outside the scope of supercaps, but it is something that should be taken into account when designing them.
What needs to happen is for there to be deadspace invulnerability fields. Perhaps in the same vein as gist x-type as to pith x-type hardeners, where the meta 14 deadspace invuln is only as good as a meta 13 officer module. Or even a-type invulns as the best deadspace where meta 14 officer modules are the best.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 04:25:00 -
[237]
While we are asking for lots of random **** I would love faction caps and supercaps. I am running out of stupidly overpriced **** to spend isk on and would like a sansha mothership. Super carrier, whatever.
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.22 05:31:00 -
[238]
Titans really needs it's 150-175% damage bonuses, 100% is a little too weak.
As for the Hel, a FB/Fighter speed increase is a decent idea.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 05:34:00 -
[239]
Go ahead and put titan guns at 800% for a day on sisi then back to the current just to **** with people.
Thanks in advance.
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.22 06:37:00 -
[240]
Thank you for going with the original mothership changes instead of doing all that extra crap. Still not quite clear on why you guys were so paranoid about mothership being overpowered that you decided to nerf the hell out of it after people were so happy with the initial ideas. But I'm glad you guys reconsidered. ----------------------------------------------------
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caldesia
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:19:00 -
[241]
In regaurds to the Hel I would rather see a bonus to Fighter/Drone speed and agility maybe even fighter warp speed.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:22:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Teck7
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Fighter Bomber survivability
This is a tricky one because Fighter Bombers are already hovering around 20k raw hit points plus resists. That's more EHP than, for example, T2 fit Thorax. In that respect they are already fairly tough. They are also set to orbit at 7.5k which puts them outside of all but the most powerful smart bomb range. The design team is of the opinion that this issue is less about the Fighter Bombers and more about the Stealth Bombers / Smartbombs. No nerfs imminent, just letting you all know that we're looking at this problem from a larger perspective.
The point in case is not that fighter bombers can orbit outside the range of all but officer smarties, that really is only a point of contention when your talking about ganking one or a couple of carriers/supercaps.... Putting a mother ship into an actual capital fleet engagement was the point made, that fighters/fighter bombers sent to attack primary targets or any targets within the hostile capital blob will die almost immediately to the massive area of coverage of the capital groups smart bombs. Example would be 50 enemy caps, 20 carriers, the carriers are always going to be very spread amongst the blob creating a very large area of effect washed with smartbomb damage that waxes anything that comes into it. Its not unlike the crappy tactic of using a smartbombing carrier blob to take out clustered group of modules on a pos, hitting up to 15-20 modules at a time or more (just using this as an example of the power of smartbombs in capital groups).
Actually, that's exactly the point my reply was addressing in that we believe the problem to be less about Fighter Bombers and more about just the scenarios you describe.
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ThormozOK
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:33:00 -
[243]
Edited by: ThormozOK on 22/12/2009 07:46:53 I dont actually like that fighter-bomber idea. I think you moving motherships into a wrong way.
My idea is - ForceField generator for motherships. That would give them a completely new role. Different from a bigger stronger carriers.
With a forcefield generator you can use Mothership as a mobile base behind enemy lines. You can restock ammo, refit etc in a safe place.
To prevent caps from insta jumping when forcefield generator cycle ends you can make 50% capacitor penalty inside a forcefield. So you cant enable generator near bubled friendly titan and instantly jump after cycle finishes.
I know you can tune this up, but I think that would give a new life to a Motherships.
UPD To make it clear - this module should work like any other "siege" module. So it has a cycle of activation and consume large amount of strontium
The main idea is when you are overhelmed by the enemy you can activate this module and wait for reinforcements under the forcefield. That should be an hour or less. Not to stay for weeks.
PS Sorry not native English speaker.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:35:00 -
[244]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 22/12/2009 07:43:41
Originally by: DamienEx First, while happy that the Naglfar is getting its bonuses back, it seems that dropping the launchers for the third hard point seem to be popular amongst everyone. Can we address whether or not this is going to be looked into, considered, or if there is some reason that the Naglfar still has two weapon systems.
This is not being looked into. Let me be very clear on this: the Naglfar is not getting a third turret. The Art reasons for this have been explained previously. Matari ships having split weapon systems is nothing new. With the 1.1 changes we are putting the focus back on the turrets and making the missile system supplementary. If you play with the setups you'll see that the Naglfar is a very flexible ship now in terms of what it can do and has excellent DPS compared to its counterparts.
Quote: Second, can you provide an official guesstimate for the price of supercarriers seeing as ive seen anything from 6Bil to 20Bil as a cost.
The 200 Clone Vat Bay components are being removed from the build cost. Other than that, there are no other adjustments.
Quote: Third, ive seen a few post made in regards to Caldari pilots training two skills for capital weapons systems, and three for Minmatar (Cit torps/cruise). Can you address the possibility of reducing this to one skill to be in line with the other capital weapons systems.
There are no plans ATM to combine the two skills into one.
Quote: Fourth, the Leviathan's CPU output.
It's being considered. No promises. The biggest issue with this is obviously the Capital Shield rep with its big CPU requirement. Considering that this module's ability to repair damage is not scaled to ships with millions of EHP, perhaps it might be best if that CPU usage is spent elsewhere?
Quote: Also, Will fighter bombers be able to be used in low sec.
I know of no such restrictions.
Quote: Sixth, Remote ECM-Burst needs a boost, period.
It's being considered. No promises. (obvious paste)
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Cpt Jagermeister
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:40:00 -
[245]
Originally by: ThormozOK I dont actually like that fighter-bomber idea. I think you moving motherships into a wrong way.
My idea is - ForceField generator for motherships. That would give them a completely new role. Different from a bigger stronger carriers.
With a forcefield generator you can use Mothership as a mobile base behind enemy lines. You can restock ammo, refit etc in a safe place.
To prevent caps from insta jumping when forcefield generator cycle ends you can make 50% capacitor penalty inside a forcefield. So you cant enable generator near bubled friendly titan and instantly jump after cycle finishes. I know you can tune this up, but I think that would give a new life to a Motherships.
PS Sorry not native English speaker.
Your english isn't an issue, i understand it can be difficult and i applaud you for taking the time to post. But are you ****ing high on drugs? Your idea is ludicrous and completely against the streamlining of cap ship warfare. Mobile base? There's more then 3 or 4 of these things running around you know. Cap ships need to be worth the investment but at the same time not game breaking because we all know that if its good, it shall become abundant.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:48:00 -
[246]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 22/12/2009 07:56:02 First off: thank you, thank you, thank you!
Originally by: CCP Awesome They are also set to orbit at 7.5k which puts them outside of all but the most powerful smart bomb range.
orbit really should be upped to 8000m. mere faction emp smarties (which are not terribly uncommon on carriers and would certainly improve in popularity with FBs in game) shouldn't be in range. this would unfortunately also take hakim's and thon's out of the running but every other officer SB that could hit them at 7500m orbit would be unaffected.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 08:14:00 -
[247]
Quote: It's being considered. No promises. The biggest issue with this is obviously the Capital Shield rep with its big CPU requirement. Considering that this module's ability to repair damage is not scaled to ships with millions of EHP, perhaps it might be best if that CPU usage is spent elsewhere?
Lets say the sensor booster is required. Target painter maybe? Since w/o a webber I cannot hit small **** orbiting me, whats the point? And with the 20km webber range its also useless. Even with full hardeners setup I waste 2 slots bcs 2 of the reisists go fairly more than 90% which is the resist cap. Cap recharger is useless (or better said not that much usefull anymore w/o a booster). And u missing the point that shield tanker have to boost for 20 mins or more to get the damn 37.5% own bonus.......... Armor tankers get it instant and dont have to to rep. They put 8 CHEAP hardeners on the lows and can put on the midslots whatever they want and still have 50+ millions of ehps. Shield tankers cannot have that much with whatever setup you want.
________________________________________________
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hcydo
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Posted - 2009.12.22 08:19:00 -
[248]
Quote: The 200 Clone Vat Bay components are being removed from the build cost. Other than that, there are no other adjustments.
How about increasing Drone Bay components so that price would stay the same.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.12.22 08:54:00 -
[249]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
This is not being looked into. Let me be very clear on this: the Naglfar is not getting a third turret. The Art reasons for this have been explained previously.
Ok, i kinda understand the Art reasons for not Adding another turret on a already clustered Model, (even though its not that much work) but what is stoping you from adding simply a 50% Dmg-Role-Bonus that many of us here already mentioned in the past?
Isn't it just a bit more work than changing some values? And it would fix this issue (finaly...)
Or ist there some golden rule that says that the Naglfar MUST have split weapons?
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Scavok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 08:55:00 -
[250]
MS will still be able to fit gang mods, correct?
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Martha Bellaris
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Posted - 2009.12.22 09:29:00 -
[251]
Why no response on the Titan questions?
- Are you happy with the gun damage the way it is? -- Any thoughts on number of guns, damage bonus vs command links if you dont increase the damage output?
- Optimal range / missile velocity bonus?
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Susa Ou
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Posted - 2009.12.22 09:35:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Susa Ou on 22/12/2009 09:35:54 Edited by: Susa Ou on 22/12/2009 09:35:12 As a Nid pilot and future Hel (depending) alt, I would argue that the rep amount bonus is great. It gives pilots who choose a carrier chooses in terms of what they think a carrier should be. The two tanking bonuses (Archon/Chimera) ships mirror their Logistics cruisers - and this is great. The Nag and the Thanatos trade the great tank for more logistical flexibility and the more defensive Nag and the more offensive Thanatos give the pilots a choise.
Instead of looking around for a secondary bonus for the Nag/Hel - why not just boost the RR bonus (for both) to 7.5% and make the Thanatos fighter damage also 7.5% per level. This would offset the great 5% stacking-free resistance per level. Otherwise, don't change it imo - the rep bonus is great, and there are other chooses for people who want more tank or more gank. . .
tl;dr -> Boost the rep bonus to 7.5% or keep it the same.
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.22 09:46:00 -
[253]
when i did my 1st post i did believe it was in the information portal as this is a rule of what we are going to do, now that i have looked again and fine it in the test server forum i believe this is an only what might happen. can we get a statement from the lead game desinger dev that these changes to the mothership will take place and not just we are going to do this, then get us on to sisi to try it out give you feed back for you to waste our time again.
also what is the likely cost of each fighter bomber? is the price for the skill book going to be in line with other capital weapon skills or is it going to be a wow it's 3.5b for that skill 0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Commander Predator
Kinky Killing Kleptomaniacs BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 09:51:00 -
[254]
I had a crazy idea on super carriers/titans .... they should act as permanent cynosural fields... so long as their not in warp or in a pos field... you should be able to jump to them as a cyno... that would be cool:)
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.22 10:05:00 -
[255]
Well, to the people complainign about smartbombs. GAme wise that is not bad in fact. With bombers and the new increased usage of sbombers with bombs, we might enter on a phase were fleets start to need a escort screen of smartbomb battleships, just like FLAK ships in real life that protect other ships.
Might need balance, yes, but its a good EXTRA component on fleet combat.
But on the mothership bobmers, maybe would be better if they didn¦t orbit, but would make passes.. throwign their torpedos form a distance like 20 km and they slowly approach the target ( like 1 km/s, giving time for screens to try destroy them). Then bombers return to mothership to reload. YEs that would PLUMPED dps to very low levels, that is why the bombs damage would need to be increased. MOtherships become the alpha strike of capital ships.
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RedClaws
Amarr Dragon's Rage E C L I P S E
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Posted - 2009.12.22 10:11:00 -
[256]
With Triage reduced to 5 minute cycles with 250 consumption, will you also change the Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration skill.Currently it gives -50 stront used per lvl, which would make the consumption quantity of the module 0 at lvl 5.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 10:33:00 -
[257]
Edited by: RoCkEt X on 22/12/2009 10:34:21 hmm... dev response has been really excellent in this thread so far.
any ETA on dominion 1.1?
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Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.22 10:37:00 -
[258]
One thing that would be good would be a model size increase since atm moms are pretty tiny and do not properly represent e-peen.
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Theophilis
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Posted - 2009.12.22 10:53:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Iloni Atoriandra One thing that would be good would be a model size increase since atm moms are pretty tiny and do not properly represent e-peen.
I second this notion. Even if you have to stretch the textures. Please make them bigger. 3/4 the size of a Titan would be awesome :)
I agree, don't want my Mothership dockable. Whole reason I trained up an alt. Will Fighters V still be a requirement like before?
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.22 11:05:00 -
[260]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 22/12/2009 11:15:15
Originally by: Fire Hawk
Idea 1: give them their own siege module with the same penalty as a dread and 300% damage bonus?
Idea 2: increase their leadership bonuss by 2 if they are present on the same grid.
Idea 3: reduce the DD timer to 5 minute
In regards to the leviathan it needs 150 cpu more, and you need to look at the instant damage.
In regards to ragnarock: its effective EHP needs to be boosted by 20/30 % to make it lvl with the other titans
i dont know if i should laugh or cry... 60k dps leviathan any1 ?
there was a reason behind increasing DD timer to 10 minutes...
but hey, at least u didnt say u want lowsec-DD back...
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.22 11:45:00 -
[261]
Originally by: LoveKebab
but hey, at least u didnt say u want lowsec-DD back...
I'll do it in his place..
BRING BACK LOWSEC DD!
ps.
<3
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.22 11:59:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: LoveKebab
but hey, at least u didnt say u want lowsec-DD back...
I'll do it in his place..
BRING BACK LOWSEC DD!
ps.
<3
no, thx
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 12:19:00 -
[263]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 22/12/2009 12:19:44
Originally by: Scavok MS will still be able to fit gang mods, correct?
Yes.
Originally by: cpu939 also what is the likely cost of each fighter bomber?
Build cost will be approximately 25% higher than normal fighters.
Originally by: RedClaws With Triage reduced to 5 minute cycles with 250 consumption, will you also change the Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration skill.Currently it gives -50 stront used per lvl, which would make the consumption quantity of the module 0 at lvl 5.
Fun answer - Nah, we want everyone to get free Triage at L5!
Proper (boring) answer - The skill is being changed to work properly with the reduced cycle time of the module.
Originally by: Iloni Atoriandra One thing that would be good would be a model size increase since atm moms are pretty tiny and do not properly represent e-peen.
Yeah, I've always wondered how five Hyperions are supposed to fit inside a Nyx or a Wyvern... I'm not sure the Art Dept. has an e-peen meter to scale their sketches by, but we should probably change that.
Originally by: Theophilis Will Fighters V still be a requirement like before?
To train Fighter Bombers? Yes. I also think there should be a Supercarrier skill that you should have to train Carrier to L5 for, but that genie is already out of the bottle.
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Nemtar Nataal
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.12.22 13:03:00 -
[264]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Theophilis Will Fighters V still be a requirement like before?
To train Fighter Bombers? Yes. I also think there should be a Supercarrier skill that you should have to train Carrier to L5 for, but that genie is already out of the bottle.
Totally agree on the Carrier lvl5 and the SuperCarrier skill, unfortunately you guys at CCP have had a bad habbit of making things way to easy to fly so people whould really have to give up 1 thing to fly something else.
Jump freighters is a awesome example (racial freighter skill lvl5 was proposed). Black Ops are another perfect example (Cloaking lvl5 was proposed).
Not to mention the requirements for Advanced learning skills and Cybernetics bieng changed aswell from there original stats.
This is not technically relevant but there is a fine balance between wanting more players and just making it plain easy to get into new bloted ships that you want to give attention. I would blame this for the populerity contest that MS's have been enjoying as the low sec pirate tool number 1. And also the blame for why there are 302 titans in the game - not that the skill reqs are not steep, but they are not steep enough.
When you have to choos 1 thing over another some people might chose to more common road, and leave the extraordinary ships to limited large scale alliance use - also the reason why the MS today have been changed to the super carrier to make room for a real implementation of a MS the was it was originally intended - properly more as a Independence Day version of a MS with much more limited offensive capabileties and more defensive capabileties.
....Just something to keep in mind....
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Groot T
T-Wrecks Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.22 13:06:00 -
[265]
YAY for super carriers being about to use 20 fighters or 20 fighter bombers. CCP, thank you.
On another note, I would like to ask two question; 1) Why were Titans allowed to DD in lowsec with the initial release of Dominion? 2) Would it be seen as "imbalanced" to allow them to DD in low-sec with dominion 1.1?
Thanks,
Groot Carpe Diem |
Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.22 13:43:00 -
[266]
You've opened another can of ****storm here Abathur, but I wish you luck anycase, for all of our sake..
Overall, the HP boost was a necessity, the jump range is 'nice' (and a necessity if you want to see these ships fielded with cap fleets), while the addition of FB has boths pros and cons. To not further derail and spam this with words noone will read, I'll just quote your replies to those concerns..:
Originally by: CCP Abathur Fighter Bays
This is something we are looking into. If we cannot get this in for 1.1 then increasing the size of the current drone bays may happen.
Self-repair on Supercaps
At this time, we are not pursuing any sort of enhanced capability of this type. The HP boost is the result of watching these ships melt in under a minute to current EVE capital ship fleets. The survivability of these ships should not be measured in seconds; taking one down should be more memorable than opening another bag of potato chips. Titans and Supercarriers bring specific offensive advantages to a battlefield. If you want them to survive, support them properly. The additional hit points are intended to be a buffer that allow the ships enough time so that allies can come get them out of whatever mess they've gotten themselves into. If your fellow supercapital pilots make a habit of using their ships without proper support, that's bad.
Having said that, yes, we're aware of the issues concerning shield supercapitals / gang bonuses, etc... and are looking into possible solutions that does not include giving them zomg self-repair.
Fighter Bomber survivability
This is a tricky one because Fighter Bombers are already hovering around 20k raw hit points plus resists. That's more EHP than, for example, T2 fit Thorax. In that respect they are already fairly tough. They are also set to orbit at 7.5k which puts them outside of all but the most powerful smart bomb range. The design team is of the opinion that this issue is less about the Fighter Bombers and more about the Stealth Bombers / Smartbombs. No nerfs imminent, just letting you all know that we're looking at this problem from a larger perspective.
..those are pretty much keys points regarding FB yes/no's. * FB damage is good, but only vs capitals, at this point the Fighters are still the main choice vs most targets. * FB survivability isn't really higher than regular Fighters, but you touched that point here. The key for me as mom pilot here is the numbers of Fighters I reasonably can put out. As Carrier-pilot I used to field multiple t1-sentry flights over Fighters because of a) lag b) lag c) lag d) slow recall of Fighters, which with the popularity (and easier SB-training) makes it even worse now, and e) lag.
I can see this is not something you guys can solve in a simple way, just putting it out there; please keep the extremely low survivability of Fighters/FB under consideration. FB's arn't overpowered in any way either, no matter how much dmg they deal vs capitals, they are still (virtually) useless against battleships - and evenmoreso vs smaller.
One option would be to add a FB-bay, and make them big enough, and construction cheap enough, so that we could have multiple flights and worry less about risking them. I'm talking in the range of 50-70 FB's, at a reasonable price (5mil? a pop). They will only be fielded in laggy and/or capital environments, is that really unreasonable to ask for? I think not.
Fighters, and the regular drones, will still be my #1 choice even if I do have the choice of FB's. It's just a cool toy vs capitals. That's it. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
dracice
R.E.C.O.N. Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2009.12.22 13:46:00 -
[267]
welcome to october/november, and i await the reversal of these propositions.
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Seth Rock
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.22 13:52:00 -
[268]
I have such a mancrush on you right now sel/abathur.
The only other thing for ms needing tweaked would be how to help fbs survive against smartbombs but maybe we can mass test some ideas on sisi so long as you promise to keep nozh away
well maybe increase the size of moms too, it's kinda like a clown car fitting all those big ships inside it.
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Rejected Enlightenment
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:35:00 -
[269]
Are you considering reinstating lowsec DD?
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Del Girl
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:48:00 -
[270]
Thank you Abathur
Del
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Misaki Yuuko
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:54:00 -
[271]
Simple solution to FB survival: increase orbit radio to 30km's or a bit more (up to 50km?). This will negate most SB carriers blobing or reduce it quite enough, also given the orbit radio the spread of FB should be higher so effective use of bombs agains them would be much more difficult, but they would still be vulnerable to support without any HP increase.
As for the Hel, I agree with suggestions of bonus to FB velocity and/or sig radious. I would like in general that targetting your own fighters would be faster, and a boost of repping range (and rep amount maybe, highlly inferior to triagle carriers but higher than current rep power).
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darkmancer
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:09:00 -
[272]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Teck7
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Fighter Bomber survivability
The point in case is not that fighter bombers can orbit outside the range of all but officer smarties, that really is only a point of contention when your talking about ganking one or a couple of carriers/supercaps.... Putting a mother ship into an actual capital fleet engagement was the point made, that fighters/fighter bombers sent to attack primary targets or any targets within the hostile capital blob will die almost immediately to the massive area of coverage of the capital groups smart bombs. Example would be 50 enemy caps, 20 carriers, the carriers are always going to be very spread amongst the blob creating a very large area of effect washed with smartbomb damage that waxes anything that comes into it. Its not unlike the crappy tactic of using a smartbombing carrier blob to take out clustered group of modules on a pos, hitting up to 15-20 modules at a time or more (just using this as an example of the power of smartbombs in capital groups).
Actually, that's exactly the point my reply was addressing in that we believe the problem to be less about Fighter Bombers and more about just the scenarios you describe.
What about giving fighters & fighter bombers smartbomb imu
--------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Fuujin
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:30:00 -
[273]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: RedClaws With Triage reduced to 5 minute cycles with 250 consumption, will you also change the Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration skill.Currently it gives -50 stront used per lvl, which would make the consumption quantity of the module 0 at lvl 5.
Fun answer - Nah, we want everyone to get free Triage at L5!
Proper (boring) answer - The skill is being changed to work properly with the reduced cycle time of the module.
Any possibility of a different effect? 250 unit stacks are fairly manageable, and triage has a few minor issues that could be helped by training the high-rank skill to 4 or 5...like maybe a small cap use reduction in remote reps, or better range of the remote reps (all, including hull)?
If it stays with stront reduction that's fine, but the big benefit of TWR/TLR training was alleviating the massive 1500 m3 burden per cycle. A 750 m3 stack can fit into the (reduced) carrier cargobay (or even in the fuel bay) enabling jump-and-triage maneuvers out to the max range of the carrier.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:36:00 -
[274]
FB's vs Smartbombs: tbh fighters dont instapop to Smarties unless theres 5+ smarties going off. as a MS pilot myself, i feel it would be overpowered to have fighterbombers orbit outside of officer smartbomb range, i feel 7.5km is justified and balanced.
if you attack a fleet of carriers and your FB's get smartbombed, pull them back. i see no reason why the advantage of 10k dps shouldnt have a disadvantage.
FB's vs Battleships: You dont hit battleships. you arent supposed to. you're supposed to be anti-capital, not anti-everything.
FB's and thier HP: With FB's only set to cost 25% more than fighters, i see no reason to give them more hp than they have atm (20k raw hp) especially as fighters etc are now as responsive as drones.
The Hel: I agree this is an issue, personally i'd be in favor of a bonus to fighter velocity, and/or reduction in FB explosion radius. This means it can apply its damage better without fitting a target painter (which wud be wtflolz)
Titans: DD is fine as it is; as for seeing titans on the field - thats going to be an issue until someone screws up and makes titans completely unkillable.
Naglfar: Liking the turret bonuses, but in favor of keeping the missile slots as it allows flexibility; which is always good.
i just wanna know the timescale for Dominion 1.1 :)
-rock
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Rose Nuke
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:41:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Rose Nuke on 22/12/2009 15:42:41 sweet all hail aba, die nozh
with regards to the hel, many minmitar ships have bonuses to rate of fire or fall off.
could possibly give them a bonus to the range of the bombers meaning will survive well against capital smartbombs as be out of range and if all are orbiting a dread be very hard to bomb more than a couple of them at a time?
or have a bonus to the rate of fire, but not sure weather this would realy work considering you need to load the torps into them they may be used up to quickly
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:54:00 -
[276]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 22/12/2009 15:54:59
Originally by: Marmios Abathur would like to eloborate why you raised the ROF of the Citadel Torp launchers again?
Yeah, after some of these changes, it was doing about 1200 DPS more than the other dreads and that was deemed not good.
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:56:00 -
[277]
Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 22/12/2009 15:56:01 Any plans to make specific MS larger? The wyvern for example is smaller than a phoenix.
oh and since MS can jump farther will they be getting larger fuel bays?
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.12.22 16:14:00 -
[278]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Yeah, after some of these changes, it was doing about 1200 DPS more than the other dreads and that was deemed not good.
It being the Phoenix?
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.12.22 16:16:00 -
[279]
Edited by: Linas IV on 22/12/2009 16:16:22
Originally by: CCP Abathur Yeah, after some of these changes, it was doing about 1200 DPS more than the other dreads and that was deemed not good.
Well i guess you mean the Phoenix? You considered the change affects the Naglfar aswell right?
Right?!?
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:00:00 -
[280]
What about instead of a projected ecm burst, it is a bubble that emmits from the super carrier. And anyone in that bubble does not appear in local channel?
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:04:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Marlona Sky What about instead of a projected ecm burst, it is a bubble that emmits from the super carrier. And anyone in that bubble does not appear in local channel?
Incase they missed the cyno, the MS on scan, the pos it is likely sitting at, and the cov ops they have staring at you after you lit the cyno. But hey you dont ****ing show up in local.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:09:00 -
[282]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Marlona Sky What about instead of a projected ecm burst, it is a bubble that emmits from the super carrier. And anyone in that bubble does not appear in local channel?
Incase they missed the cyno, the MS on scan, the pos it is likely sitting at, and the cov ops they have staring at you after you lit the cyno. But hey you dont ****ing show up in local.
True, maybe throw in area cloak or something. But the remote ecm burst is kinda crap for a supper carrier (mom) exclusive module.
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Ridjeck Thome
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:18:00 -
[283]
One issue that Ive not seen addressed is that of Slaves V Crystals and the magnified effect that Slaves currently have on the strength of supercap armour tanks.
In the original (pre-dominion) thread, there was some acknowledgment that this issue needed review - does CCP still acknowledge its an issue?
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Rodent
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:21:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Marlona Sky But the remote ecm burst is kinda crap for a supper carrier (mom) exclusive module.
You appear to be about as smart as Zeveron. This is not a good thing. Leave the Remote ECM burst as it is. It's awesome. Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to EVE Online. All content must be in good taste.Please revise your signature. Applebabe |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:22:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Marlona Sky What about instead of a projected ecm burst, it is a bubble that emmits from the super carrier. And anyone in that bubble does not appear in local channel?
Incase they missed the cyno, the MS on scan, the pos it is likely sitting at, and the cov ops they have staring at you after you lit the cyno. But hey you dont ****ing show up in local.
True, maybe throw in area cloak or something. But the remote ecm burst is kinda crap for a supper carrier (mom) exclusive module.
I find the Remote ECM Burst is incredibly useful in it's current state. I would like to see some sort of duration on it so that it keeps people from relocking immediately but it works pretty well when deployed with 1-3 more of them.
I also would like to see a set of implants for shield caps or the armor set removed.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:42:00 -
[286]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
the lowsec DD was and will be fail if it gonna come back - titans as a part of 0.0 warfare should not be able to use their superweapon in lowsec ...
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Kokuho
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:49:00 -
[287]
Already been posted but I second the motion of having the Nyx bonus affect Fighters only and having a similar damage bonus to fighter bombers for the Hel.
This way you even out all four races in terms of their bonuses.
Also, if you keep the resist bonus on these supercarriers, then the pirate implants should be changed. it has always been dumb how armor-tanked capitals can take advantage of Slave set while the shield-tanked capitals can't take advantage of Crystal set.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.22 18:11:00 -
[288]
Originally by: darkmancer
What about giving fighters & fighter bombers smartbomb imu
Making something invulnerable against something else is generally a bad idea.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Coji
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Posted - 2009.12.22 18:31:00 -
[289]
Edited by: Coji on 22/12/2009 18:34:38
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: darkmancer
What about giving fighters & fighter bombers smartbomb imu
Making something invulnerable against something else is generally a bad idea.
Well they're already doing it in some cases. Structure immunity to DD pops up in my mind atm but I'm sure there's other examples where it worked out pretty fine.
Edit: I do agree that it's a pretty bad idea in this case though
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.12.22 18:59:00 -
[290]
Edited by: Chi Quan on 22/12/2009 18:59:50
Originally by: CCP Abathur Motherships --> Supercarriers
ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
so to be clear: 1. supercarriers don't get to use a triage module, this is exclusively a (normal) carrier module. 2. the titan will be the only vessel being able to use a clone vat bay.
correct?
are there plans to look into the "carrying" abilities of carriers and super carriers? especially carrying pilots+ships inside them? ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:01:00 -
[291]
Fighters Could do with a higher orbiting range making it a little bit harder for bobmers to wipe out a whole squadron of fighterbobmer, 15k woud be a good compromiss. If several supercarriers are involved bombs would still hit alot of fighterbomber, but not all of them.
Gangmods on supercarriers are nice, how about a reasonable bonus, ie. field command or t3 cruiser sized bonus to the racial gangmod. This would give an incentive for more different highslots other then the usual cookie cutter fits for highs.
Drone Control Units could do with a boost, is there anything planned? -
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:01:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Chi Quan Edited by: Chi Quan on 22/12/2009 18:59:50
Originally by: CCP Abathur Motherships --> Supercarriers
ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
so to be clear: 1. supercarriers don't get to use a triage module, this is exclusively a (normal) carrier module. 2. the titan will be the only vessel being able to use a clone vat bay.
correct?
are there plans to look into the "carrying" abilities of carriers and super carriers? especially carrying pilots+ships inside them?
Rorqual can fit clone vat too..
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NightmareX
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:01:00 -
[293]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: CCP Abathur
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
the lowsec DD was and will be fail if it gonna come back - titans as a part of 0.0 warfare should not be able to use their superweapon in lowsec ...
So if a Titan gets hotdropped in low sec (Yes titans will be used in low sec no matter what), should it just die because it can't defent it self?.
Director of Infinitus Odium. |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:04:00 -
[294]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: CCP Abathur
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
the lowsec DD was and will be fail if it gonna come back - titans as a part of 0.0 warfare should not be able to use their superweapon in lowsec ...
So if a Titan gets hotdropped in low sec (Yes titans will be used in low sec no matter what), should it just die because it can't defent it self?.
Yes. Next time bring a support fleet. Or just log off before getting aggro, nothing can get past 40+mil EHP in 1 minute.
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DamienEx
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:31:00 -
[295]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: CCP Abathur
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
the lowsec DD was and will be fail if it gonna come back - titans as a part of 0.0 warfare should not be able to use their superweapon in lowsec ...
If titans cant DD in low sec, carirers cant deploy fighters, dreads cant siege, and super carriers cant drop fighters or bombers.
If a titan is such a 0.0 weapon, then all cap ships are 0.0 weapons, and there fore should not be able to be used in low sec. Unless you want balancing issues, you need to keep all cap weapons viable in lowsec as well as 0.0.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:40:00 -
[296]
Originally by: DamienEx
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: CCP Abathur
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
the lowsec DD was and will be fail if it gonna come back - titans as a part of 0.0 warfare should not be able to use their superweapon in lowsec ...
If titans cant DD in low sec, carirers cant deploy fighters, dreads cant siege, and super carriers cant drop fighters or bombers.
If a titan is such a 0.0 weapon, then all cap ships are 0.0 weapons, and there fore should not be able to be used in low sec. Unless you want balancing issues, you need to keep all cap weapons viable in lowsec as well as 0.0.
Unless you want balancing issues you need to keep all cap and supercap counters available in lowsec too then: dictor bubbles, hictor fields, bombers (against fighters). So what were you saying again?
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DamienEx
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:46:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Unless you want balancing issues you need to keep all cap and supercap counters available in lowsec too then: dictor bubbles, hictor fields, bombers (against fighters). So what were you saying again?
Bombers can be used in low sec.
Dictor bubbles and hictor fields are not just cap counters, they can be used against conventional ships and the like, which is why they aren't used in low sec. Besides, you can use the focused point to hold super caps and regular points on dreads and carriers in low sec. you dont need bubbles. and bubbles arent a counter. they are merely a way of keeping things from running away.
That is what I was saying.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:46:00 -
[298]
Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 22/12/2009 19:47:51
Originally by: DamienEx
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: CCP Abathur
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
the lowsec DD was and will be fail if it gonna come back - titans as a part of 0.0 warfare should not be able to use their superweapon in lowsec ...
If titans cant DD in low sec, carirers cant deploy fighters, dreads cant siege, and super carriers cant drop fighters or bombers.
If a titan is such a 0.0 weapon, then all cap ships are 0.0 weapons, and there fore should not be able to be used in low sec. Unless you want balancing issues, you need to keep all cap weapons viable in lowsec as well as 0.0.
A titan can still use all it's powers, just not the DD. But your ignorant blanket statements do a good job in proving the worth of your ideas.
oh and have fun sieging pos without caps in lowsec.
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Melor Rend
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:57:00 -
[299]
YAY! Good work! This is a great first step in restoring my faith in CCP to take their players oppinions seriously. <3 CCP Abathur
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:57:00 -
[300]
Originally by: DamienEx
Bombers can be used in low sec.
Playing dumb? Or are you just clueless? Hint: bombs.
Quote:
Dictor bubbles and hictor fields are not just cap counters, they can be used against conventional ships and the like, which is why they aren't used in low sec.
You can use fighters, siege mode against normal ships. You want also to use DD in lowsec which can be also used against normal ships. So what is your point again?
Quote:
Besides, you can use the focused point to hold super caps and regular points on dreads and carriers in low sec. you dont need bubbles. and bubbles arent a counter. they are merely a way of keeping things from running away.
It shows you never tackled a supercap. So go out there and do your homework on "supercap tackling for dummies". But if you really want: focused points dont work unless you have quite large number of HICs in 1st place. They can be neuted, ECMed or just killed wheras HIS sphere cant be ECMed and its much harder to be neuted (less cap use). Dictor spheres can be killed by smartys and bombs (so need teamwork or support fleet) but are immune to neuting or ecm.
Anyways rest of reasons you can read here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1224368
I dont see a point in repeating exactly same sentences in new thread.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:02:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Rodent
Originally by: Marlona Sky But the remote ecm burst is kinda crap for a supper carrier (mom) exclusive module.
You appear to be about as smart as Zeveron. This is not a good thing. Leave the Remote ECM burst as it is. It's awesome.
If it was a giant multi-spec jammer then yeah. I am not saying it is not useful in its current form, I am saying it should be more powerful of a module.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:15:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Rodent
Originally by: Marlona Sky But the remote ecm burst is kinda crap for a supper carrier (mom) exclusive module.
You appear to be about as smart as Zeveron. This is not a good thing. Leave the Remote ECM burst as it is. It's awesome.
If it was a giant multi-spec jammer then yeah. I am not saying it is not useful in its current form, I am saying it should be more powerful of a module.
Yes when I think powerful module I think multispec
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:19:00 -
[303]
On the fighter bomber issue, if you'll give them an orbital range of say 12.5 or 15km, or possibly even more, you'll greatly reduce the problems associated with stealth bombers, somewhat reduce the problem with smartbombs, and there are very few negative consequences of doing so, though you'll need to maybe up the missile velocity of the fighter bomber's torps. You could also simply give them a faster orbit velocity, to the point where they'd need to be webbed in order to take meaningful damage from bombs. It wouldn't be a bad thing for only tackling class ships to be able to kill a mothership's main dps fighter. Bombs already **** regular fighters, let's not have them **** a 20bn isk ship's fighter bombers as well, or at least not without more than 2 or 3 random bomb runs.
Also, I'm not convinced that smartbombs are in any way the problem, don't fall into the mindset of nerf this nerf that to balance everything. Stealth bombers are horrendously overpowered yes, but smartbombs are not. The answer to this may be a new type of capital sized sentry drone fighter, one that does dps in between a regular fighter and a fighter bomber, but with low enough tracking that it will only reliably hit immobile ships, and capitals for full damage. This would probably need to be limited to supercarriers, or possibly even another class of carrier (like an assault carrier, one with no SMA/corp hangar, just fighters, sentry fighters, and RR capability), because you do not want normal carriers doing anymore dps to structures than they already do, at least I think you don't, but on supercarriers it would not be a problem. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Iron Pride
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:34:00 -
[304]
Yeh the Leviathan needs to get its shield bonus instantly or crystals need to give hp bonus, as HP on Levi is much much less then that of an erebus.
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glassmanipulator
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:54:00 -
[305]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 22/12/2009 07:43:41
Originally by: DamienEx First, while happy that the Naglfar is getting its bonuses back, it seems that dropping the launchers for the third hard point seem to be popular amongst everyone. Can we address whether or not this is going to be looked into, considered, or if there is some reason that the Naglfar still has two weapon systems.
This is not being looked into. Let me be very clear on this: the Naglfar is not getting a third turret. The Art reasons for this have been explained previously. Matari ships having split weapon systems is nothing new. With the 1.1 changes we are putting the focus back on the turrets and making the missile system supplementary. If you play with the setups you'll see that the Naglfar is a very flexible ship now in terms of what it can do and has excellent DPS compared to its counterparts.
This sucks ! The models are already made, you can just throw one of them on a launcher spot like the models show up when you actually fit one.. would take the art department 10 mins to code this, come on give me a break. What a lame excuse for laziness.. I know making 10 new planets was probably pretty hard and all and they only had like 3 years to do it, but god forbid they actually have to tweak a ship for the better, instead of just ruining something like they usually do. ie; cyno effects.
Having a split weapon system for a capital class ship that takes months to train the gunnery skills alone is just so stupid I don't understand why you cant see it. If your gonna keep it split weapon, but focus on the projectile, it should get 3 bonuses then to actually make all the extra training and gimped tank worth it.
5% rof turret 5% dmg turret 5% rof missle
Make it a true dps dread if you wanna keep it broken with a gimp tank and less shield and armor hp/ehp than all the other dreads. It's OK if it does 300-400 more base dps than a rev.
or just make it 3 turrets for the love of god. K thanks.
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Misaki Yuuko
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:56:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat Stealth bombers are horrendously overpowered
No they aren't, stop this bull**** before the nerf them.
Just increase orbit radius and maybe velocity and it will be fine (indeed a little boost on normal fighters velocity wouldn't be horrible neither).
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MeanG
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:06:00 -
[307]
Edited by: MeanG on 22/12/2009 21:10:33 Consider this please. Since your removing clone vat bay from construction and use in SC's causing current mom pilots to loose invested time/isk/deployment capability/roles and the training & mods purchased made most worthless you should at least do: Gift/seed to cargohold and or drone bay the fighter bomber skills to current mom holding accounts and fighter bombers in min value to offset what you are rendering useless. Might as well get these things docking already with the death of the MOM and theirs no easy way for us to buy the fighter bombers or skill in a ship that can't dock. Only seems fair with all the Mom's made useless for so long.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:11:00 -
[308]
Make the Fighter Bombers to XL Sentry Drones instead and with torpedoes that reach decent ranges.
Just also make sure they are given some kind of thruster, so they can "Return to Dronebay" and perhaps even "Follow ship" so U can move on the grid and have them with you. But "Return to Ship" option is the only really important one - other options is maybe nice also, but not needed.
I think it would look awesome also besides that it solves the problem with Fighter Bombers being unusable against enemy capital blobs du to the fact Bobby Atlas pointed out. But imagine the beauty when a Supercarrier lauches their swarm of FB's and start to fire torpedos from all around itself. Yummy mummy ^^ _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:21:00 -
[309]
If fighter bombers are put into the game as they were on SISI the first time, they will do fine against cap blobs for anyone paying attention.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:29:00 -
[310]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 22/12/2009 19:13:05
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: CCP Abathur
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
the lowsec DD was and will be fail if it gonna come back - titans as a part of 0.0 warfare should not be able to use their superweapon in lowsec ...
So if a Titan gets hotdropped in low sec (Yes titans will be used in low sec no matter what), should it just die because it can't defent it self properly?.
it should die cuz some ****** is using a titan without proper support
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:41:00 -
[311]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Rodent
Originally by: Marlona Sky But the remote ecm burst is kinda crap for a supper carrier (mom) exclusive module.
You appear to be about as smart as Zeveron. This is not a good thing. Leave the Remote ECM burst as it is. It's awesome.
If it was a giant multi-spec jammer then yeah. I am not saying it is not useful in its current form, I am saying it should be more powerful of a module.
Yes when I think powerful module I think multispec
*sigh*
Let me clarify for you. Remote ECM Burst should jam everything within the burst radius. So instead of just making people lose thier lock, they are jammed for 20 seconds as well.
Does this clarify it for you?
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:54:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
*sigh*
Let me clarify for you. Remote ECM Burst should jam everything within the burst radius. So instead of just making people lose thier lock, they are jammed for 20 seconds as well.
Does this clarify it for you?
Yup, I already posted that exact request a few pages back. Thanks for taking the time to read the thread before posting.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.22 22:17:00 -
[313]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
FB's vs Smartbombs: tbh fighters dont instapop to Smarties unless theres 5+ smarties going off. as a MS pilot myself, i feel it would be overpowered to have fighterbombers orbit outside of officer smartbomb range, i feel 7.5km is justified and balanced
They don't need to orbit outside of officer SB range but they shouldn't be orbiting in range of mere faction emp smartbombs.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:08:00 -
[314]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 22/12/2009 23:11:41
Originally by: Ridjeck Thome One issue that Ive not seen addressed is that of Slaves V Crystals and the magnified effect that Slaves currently have on the strength of supercap armour tanks.
In the original (pre-dominion) thread, there was some acknowledgment that this issue needed review - does CCP still acknowledge its an issue?
Yes.
Originally by: glassmanipulator
Originally by: CCP Abathur Hey, like, you can't have a third turret on the Naglfar.
This sucks ! The models are already made, you can just throw one of them on a launcher spot like the models show up when you actually fit one.. would take the art department 10 mins to code this, come on give me a break.
I seem to remember this coming up before...
Originally by: glassmanipulator Make it a true dps dread if you wanna keep it broken with a gimp tank and less shield and armor hp/ehp than all the other dreads. It's OK if it does 300-400 more base dps than a rev.
Compared to a Rev? How about just under 300 more DPS long range and nearly 600 more DPS short range? Because that's about where it is with these changes. The damage gap narrows once you start adding damage mods on both ships but the Naglfar has much better base performance in terms of raw firepower, plus you can select your damage types.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:09:00 -
[315]
Originally by: ByFstugan Make the Fighter Bombers to XL Sentry Drones instead and with torpedoes that reach decent ranges.
Just also make sure they are given some kind of thruster, so they can "Return to Dronebay" and perhaps even "Follow ship" so U can move on the grid and have them with you. But "Return to Ship" option is the only really important one - other options is maybe nice also, but not needed.
I think it would look awesome also besides that it solves the problem with Fighter Bombers being unusable against enemy capital blobs du to the fact Bobby Atlas pointed out. But imagine the beauty when a Supercarrier lauches their swarm of FB's and start to fire torpedos from all around itself. Yummy mummy ^^
No thanks, leave POS sieges to the dreads please. The Light in the Darkness
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Lord Zulu
The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:31:00 -
[316]
well thank god i didn`t sell mine
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:39:00 -
[317]
Can you elaborate more on what you're looking at as far as the slave issue goes please? Are we talking slave nerfs, or are we talking having shield implants affect supercaps?
With active tanking gimped, armor tanks don't stand much of a chance without the massive buffer that slaves offer us.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:47:00 -
[318]
Last words for me before my christmasbreak:
I really had lost hope in you guys (meaning CCP). The modus operandi on how to handle stuff was really awful in the past few weeks.
I did a lot of rageposting in this and various other related foums about how ****ed I am (yes, they were huge walls of WHAWHAWHA!).
This thread actually gave me new hope in regard of the way about how CCP communicates with its customers.
Great step in the right direction in my opinion. Keep it up.
Merry christmas and Happy New Year, Greg
P.S.: Abathur probably doesn't want my children, but he can have them anyways. They are whiny buggers after all.
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Wiaf
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:17:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: DamienEx
Bombers can be used in low sec.
Playing dumb? Or are you just clueless? Hint: bombs.
Playing dumb? Or are you just clueless? Hint: Compact Citadel Torps.
LK im still waiting for that pic of deva and you doing naughty things. --------------------------------------------
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Uskos
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:36:00 -
[320]
Happy to see that motherships are getting refreshed. Although will see a new cyno effect with dominion 1.1 or any time soon? If yes i hope it will be a more awsome light show then it was before. The current one doesen't represent the awsomness of capitals well enough |
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:59:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Wiaf
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: DamienEx
Bombers can be used in low sec.
Playing dumb? Or are you just clueless? Hint: bombs.
Playing dumb? Or are you just clueless? Hint: Compact Citadel Torps.
LK im still waiting for that pic of deva and you doing naughty things.
Thanks for totally proving my point (from the post you quoted).
But if you really want smack go to CAOD, you will find audience on your level there.
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cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.23 02:14:00 -
[322]
Edited by: cpu939 on 23/12/2009 02:17:24 Edited by: cpu939 on 23/12/2009 02:16:06 1st of a big thanks to CCP Abathur and i hope santa brings you al kinda of cool toys lol
ok a few more question
1 as the fighters are aprox 25% more cost to build will the bpo also be 25% high then a fighter bpo 2 will the fighter bomber skill book be 25% more then a fighter skill book 3 can you incress the size of the wyvern and nyx both of these ships are smaller then a moros that can dock why not make the minimum size of a super carrier 4500m 4 please don't change your minds again. 5 could you add a 5% boost to ammount of hp regain to the local rep for all super carrier pre level of carrier skill cos repairing 1m hp take a bit i'm not asking for a god tank but 20 minute not 40 minutes to say rep the shield from 0 to 100%.
triage module i can see why you 1/2 its time http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Triage_Module_I Activation time / duration 300000 s (s= seconds m = minutes h= hours d= days) ok lets do some math 300000s/60s = 5000m/60m = 83.3h aprox/24h = 3.47d thats some activation time.
so what about halfing the siege module as well i mean it's sitting at 600000s almost 7 days lol (i think there might be a typo just ike my posts) or how about linking it with fleet size it mind numming having to site in space where a pos use to be for 5 minute cos you fleet wiped it out i.e up to 40 dreads in fleet 0% reduction 40 - 55 a 15% reduction in the siege timer 55- 70 a 30% (inc the 15% from the 40-55) 70 - 80 50% ( inc the 2 15 minute reduction) could you even do this?
any way once again merry christmas and a happy new year CCP Abathur
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 03:08:00 -
[323]
That is not a divided by sign. It is an either/or
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.23 03:25:00 -
[324]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 23/12/2009 03:26:03
Originally by: CCP Abathur
I seem to remember this coming up before...
Originally by: CCP Art Dev And just for comedy value: When we asked the art department whether they couldn't just cut the Naglfar in half and use copy/paste to add a third turret bit, they threatened us with large rulers, scalpels and various other dangerous implements that artists like to surround themselves with in case someone from game design comes in and asks them a stupid question. I love my job. Really I do
Why is that a stupid question? That's all they do to make most of their ships, if the crappy bumpmapped seams down the axis of symmetry of most of the symmetric ships and the silly copy-pasted camo bits are any indication. You can either tell them to get off their lazy train, or barring that, give the Naglfar a role bonus to projectiles similar to that given Marauders to bonus a third turret into existence ;)
Anyways, thanks for coming back and looking at caps again - it's appreciated ^^
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 03:33:00 -
[325]
Originally by: SolarKnight
Originally by: ByFstugan Make the Fighter Bombers to XL Sentry Drones instead and with torpedoes that reach decent ranges.
Just also make sure they are given some kind of thruster, so they can "Return to Dronebay" and perhaps even "Follow ship" so U can move on the grid and have them with you. But "Return to Ship" option is the only really important one - other options is maybe nice also, but not needed.
I think it would look awesome also besides that it solves the problem with Fighter Bombers being unusable against enemy capital blobs du to the fact Bobby Atlas pointed out. But imagine the beauty when a Supercarrier lauches their swarm of FB's and start to fire torpedos from all around itself. Yummy mummy ^^
No thanks, leave POS sieges to the dreads please.
First of all - there is no way that Supercarriers would ever compete with Dreads when it comes to POS-warfare. Very few in percentage can ever afford such ship.
Second of all - the proposal isn't about POS-warfare, but instead about making Supercarriers possible to use in large capital fights where there's alot of regular carriers with smartbombs.
And Third - if it would be concidered unwanted from CCP that they could engage POS's it's easily solved in same manner as for Titans - that they simply can't shoot them. Eventhough I don't think they should be stopped from that. It's quite a risk to put SC's outside a hostile POS in todays EVE - even with the EHP-buff they are not untackable or unkillable. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.23 03:35:00 -
[326]
The FB issues presented (dying to smartbombs, bombs) is same issues regular Fighters have. If anything should/would be changed about that, then the same should be done to fighters.. in my eyes.
FB's are exclusive capital killers, Fighters for medium size, regular drones vs smaller. Smartbombs/bombs killing either is fine, that's a viable counter.
What is a bigger issue is the supposed self-defence we have when using Fighters. "Smartbomb? Recall!" "Bomb? Recall!". That'd be fine, if recalling Fighters/FB actually worked. If we assume a non-laggy environment, they're slow as ****, but in laggy environment I've had situations where it takes over half an hour to recall one wave of Fighters, and at the end of the day only two comes back while the other eighteen are stuck in warp somewhere in limbo. And let's not even get started about trying to rep them..
I'd like to see this issue addressed separately, then Fighters would be fine as well. One example of a fix to this would be to possible give the Fighters/FB a 'nitro'-like boost when recalling, temporary speed increase for ten seconds, or similar.
FB's are fine in their design, it's just Fighters/FB as a whole that is underwhelmingly poor vs what you get out of them. In many cases it's better using disposable flights of sentries. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 03:52:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Misanth The FB issues presented (dying to smartbombs, bombs) is same issues regular Fighters have. If anything should/would be changed about that, then the same should be done to fighters.. in my eyes.
FB's are exclusive capital killers, Fighters for medium size, regular drones vs smaller. Smartbombs/bombs killing either is fine, that's a viable counter.
What is a bigger issue is the supposed self-defence we have when using Fighters. "Smartbomb? Recall!" "Bomb? Recall!". That'd be fine, if recalling Fighters/FB actually worked. If we assume a non-laggy environment, they're slow as ****, but in laggy environment I've had situations where it takes over half an hour to recall one wave of Fighters, and at the end of the day only two comes back while the other eighteen are stuck in warp somewhere in limbo. And let's not even get started about trying to rep them..
I'd like to see this issue addressed separately, then Fighters would be fine as well. One example of a fix to this would be to possible give the Fighters/FB a 'nitro'-like boost when recalling, temporary speed increase for ten seconds, or similar.
FB's are fine in their design, it's just Fighters/FB as a whole that is underwhelmingly poor vs what you get out of them. In many cases it's better using disposable flights of sentries.
- FB's are only for capitals and most carriers has at least one smartbomb and all capitals can withstand smartbombs for a very very long time. Hence it's "suicide" to send FB's to enemy capital-blob, but almost no risk for enemy to stop them. So the new role for the capital-killer Supercarrier will not be possible in large scale nullsec fighting, but only in mostly impossible to find 1v1 supercarrier vs some other capital.
- Fighters are mostly effective versus Battleships, even if they can be used towards both smaller and largers targets the DPS either has hard to hit (smaller) or doesn't do much very damage in targets total hitpoints (caps). BS's doesn't mostly have smartboms. And even if they did they can't withstand 5-10 smartbombs all over for to long. Hence there are less risk using the Fighters and if U send them into an hostile capital blob U'r not really doing what they was meant to do.
- And once again what I think they should change to; if they become an XL Sentry Drone that fires torpedos it's not very strange that they can fly decent distances - and it would look awesome :p _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 04:50:00 -
[328]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: CCP Abathur Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
ò Fighter Bombers ò Hit Point boost ò Jump Range increase ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
Hmmm, this feels like a job only half done to me, especially concidering the Hel bonus. U pulled back in this topic before dominion in order to find a more defined role for this ships, a role that didn't blend this behemots among the carriers and dreads. What I see is the exact opposite of that statement and nothing new at all - in fact it's the other way around and less of an inovative idea that fails with giving this ships a special role.
Instead of removing the logistics bonus and giving it a battle-focused job U keep this crap to insure that U fail in your above mentioned intention. And to let Hel keep that bonus instead of giving it the very thought through bonus with Fighter Bomber torpedos explosion radius is very very lame. That is the bonus this ships need to not be mixed up with regular carriers.
I think the role of this ships should be remade to a more complete sense so that it get's a more clear role as something new. My earlier suggestion, that is a work made from others suggestions in large, is that it's made to a Flagship with fighting and leadership boost capabilities and no logistics role. Read the suggestion here:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=61#1820 (there is a short version in PART III for the lazy)
EDIT: Also - to remove the triage use possibility and at the same time keep their logistics bonus, how well thought though is that? Especially concidering the Hel that even get an extra bonus to that crap and still will be far worse than even a level 1 Nidhoggur in triage. Not even if the Hel had 25% per level to Shield/Armor boost it would be close. And as a final note again - the logistics bonuses should be removed from this ships and another one added (Leadership focus imo).
This still. Make MS's to Flagships for the Battlefield - like a Capital Command Ship. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.23 06:33:00 -
[329]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: Misanth The FB issues presented (dying to smartbombs, bombs) is same issues regular Fighters have. If anything should/would be changed about that, then the same should be done to fighters.. in my eyes.
FB's are exclusive capital killers, Fighters for medium size, regular drones vs smaller. Smartbombs/bombs killing either is fine, that's a viable counter.
What is a bigger issue is the supposed self-defence we have when using Fighters. "Smartbomb? Recall!" "Bomb? Recall!". That'd be fine, if recalling Fighters/FB actually worked. If we assume a non-laggy environment, they're slow as ****, but in laggy environment I've had situations where it takes over half an hour to recall one wave of Fighters, and at the end of the day only two comes back while the other eighteen are stuck in warp somewhere in limbo. And let's not even get started about trying to rep them..
I'd like to see this issue addressed separately, then Fighters would be fine as well. One example of a fix to this would be to possible give the Fighters/FB a 'nitro'-like boost when recalling, temporary speed increase for ten seconds, or similar.
FB's are fine in their design, it's just Fighters/FB as a whole that is underwhelmingly poor vs what you get out of them. In many cases it's better using disposable flights of sentries.
1) - FB's are only for capitals and most carriers has at least one smartbomb and all capitals can withstand smartbombs for a very very long time. Hence it's "suicide" to send FB's to enemy capital-blob, but almost no risk for enemy to stop them. So the new role for the capital-killer Supercarrier will not be possible in large scale nullsec fighting, but only in mostly impossible to find 1v1 supercarrier vs some other capital.
2) - Fighters are mostly effective versus Battleships, even if they can be used towards both smaller and largers targets the DPS either has hard to hit (smaller) or doesn't do much very damage in targets total hitpoints (caps). BS's doesn't mostly have smartboms. And even if they did they can't withstand 5-10 smartbombs all over for to long. Hence there are less risk using the Fighters and if U send them into an hostile capital blob U'r not really doing what they was meant to do.
3) - And once again what I think they should change to; if they become an XL Sentry Drone that fires torpedos it's not very strange that they can fly decent distances - and it would look awesome :p
1) Similar to how things are today. That's one major reason I barely used Fighters in capital ops. I've sent mine to Dreads, but if carriers has been on the field I used sentries. That's not gonna change with FB's around (if anything it might get worse). The problem is not the smartbombs (or bombs) in itself, it's how slow they are by default - and directly unresponsible in lag situations. I.e. CCP are adding a Fighter 2.0-concept, a concept that has a design flaw by default.
There's no problem as per se in FB's itself, it's a problem with the Fighter family.
2) Yes, I already said that.
3) That would be 'cool', and it would solve their vulnerability vs smartbombs/bombs, and it would also solve the recall issues in laggy situations. But it goes against what CCP posted as a 'strength' with motherships (and carriers). They've been talking about how one of the defensive mechanisms carriers/motherships have is the mobility on the field (unlike sieged/triaged ships), so giving moms a "sentryfighter" would mean that suddenly we're immobile?
I'm not sure that's what devs want. I could personally buy that concept, but I'd also want a fix to Fighters as they work today (they're too unresponsible, too slow).. and a fix to that would be a fix to FB's be default. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Terio Oni
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.23 07:12:00 -
[330]
As far as i understood - most powerful titan now - Ragnarok. It has nice DPS in front of others
Erebus need some love too...
It will be fair if add to it a drone and dronebay capacity bonus, making it true gallente ship... I dont know - damage or quantity of drones deployed.
But now it really suxxx in front of others...
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Dregek
Pilots Of Honour Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 07:17:00 -
[331]
Naglafar
As ccp have already stated they wont add a third turret as thats :effort: and as missile suck in every sense of the word a simple solution and something that wont affect it graphically is to bonus the 2 guns as such they would equal 3 guns. Not like you see any graphical effect for a missile launcher as they magically appear in space
Motherships So back to where we started pre-dominion? the fighter bombers are going to need more ehp to combat a capital blob with 10,20 or 30 carriers perma running their smartbombs. Hel should have a drone ehp bonus. oh and name should be assault carriers as supercarrier is honestly the gayest name possible
General capital changes Nice decision on the mass changes for ships in siege or triage but the titan really really need this more than any its meant to have the mass of a moon but can be bumped by a shuttle that in relative terms is the local yob on his 50cc scooter hitting a tank and the tank going backwards
Controversial here but make it so pos warp disrupters/scramblers can tackle a titan/mother ship
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justin666
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Posted - 2009.12.23 07:56:00 -
[332]
Edited by: justin666 on 23/12/2009 07:56:39
Originally by: Sajeera
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker Is this thread a CCP Nozh free zone? Or should I expect him to pop in and ruin some good changes yet again?
Lets see...
I doubt Nozh will show up in the forums anytime soon, even if he do that, no matter the reason he is posting he will be instantly target painted, marked and molested by the entire community.
And he deserve it.
has anyone ACAULLY read forum post from ccp explaining about ccp nozh?? i think you should because it explains what happened because they said he was just the messenger.... the whole department agreed on the changes not just ccp nozh....
im just saying because it seems bit unfair but tbh ccp really messed up the super carriers on tq right now
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Nauticaa
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.12.23 08:33:00 -
[333]
Any chance the moros drone bonus could be returned to 50% per lvl but only while IS?
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 09:04:00 -
[334]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 23/12/2009 09:04:17
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Marlona Sky
*sigh*
Let me clarify for you. Remote ECM Burst should jam everything within the burst radius. So instead of just making people lose thier lock, they are jammed for 20 seconds as well.
Does this clarify it for you?
Yup, I already posted that exact request a few pages back. Thanks for taking the time to read the thread before posting.
You said some duration on it. I am suggesting 20 seconds. I was simply being specific.
I have read every single post you have made in this thread. In most of these threads, even if you do give some feedback on the topic, it also comes with some form of troll to the poster. I think you will find COAD to be more your style. Have a wonderful day NedFromAssembly.
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Slayton Ford
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 09:31:00 -
[335]
Edited by: Slayton Ford on 23/12/2009 09:31:47 I really understand CCPs wanting to get Fighterbombers into the game but is morphing the MS really the best way to do it? No matter what you do, your going to be getting a lot of pilots po'd due to the decreased value of their ships.
Now why not just leave MSs alone aside from a simple HP boost? You can the address their shortcomings later.
For supercarriers, you can take the existing carrier models, reskin it and introduce it as your 5-6b build cost, docking, fighterbombing, ecm vulnerable, 2x carrier HP ship. This gives you your new ship w/o hanging existing Mom pilots out to dry.
This gets you the best of both worlds. You get supercarriers in game, you keep MSs around as a logistics platform to revamp at a later date and you don't screw MSs pilots out of billions of isk (which is what will happen when build costs drop).
(and you don't even need to reskin it immediately as I know that takes time from the art dept.) --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
Jaron Terrkin
Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.23 09:33:00 -
[336]
CCP Abathur...I love u ...
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groak
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 09:51:00 -
[337]
The only thing I miss in here is bringing back the old white cynoeffect. oh please Signature removed. Unsuitable for EVE forums. Navigator |
pHenomena1337
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2009.12.23 10:10:00 -
[338]
Originally by: groak The only thing I miss in here is bringing back the old white cynoeffect. oh please
That would be great.
---------------------------------------------
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.23 10:15:00 -
[339]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: glassmanipulator Make it a true dps dread if you wanna keep it broken with a gimp tank and less shield and armor hp/ehp than all the other dreads. It's OK if it does 300-400 more base dps than a rev.
Compared to a Rev? How about just under 300 more DPS long range and nearly 600 more DPS short range? Because that's about where it is with these changes. The damage gap narrows once you start adding damage mods on both ships but the Naglfar has much better base performance in terms of raw firepower, plus you can select your damage types.
Issue seems to be exactly that the gap gets too small with 3 damage mods for some people perception. Exactly because nowadays dreads always use 2-3 damage mods. Also that at short range, pulses are still superior to AC on engagement evelope, so the advantage is only realistic at longer ranges. Naglfar has a huge disadvantage on HP against revelation. The thing that saves it its not the slightly higher dps, is exactly the selection of damage types. But I persoannly think that is enough. Naglfar does NOT need a HUGE damage advantage.
Could you please post us exactly what are the official DPS numbers you guys are working on with the current changes ?
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Cpt AngelNova
Amarr Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 10:28:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Jaron Terrkin CCP Abathur...I love u ...
This news you bring us Abathur is like an Xmas present in its own
As for the Cyno Effects mentioned above.... Yes please do change that for the better aswell, i mean the gate jump effects are perfect, but capitals... they deserve a dramatic entry !
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Deja Thoris
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 10:37:00 -
[341]
Now that te problem of titans one shoting super carriers will be a thing of the ast please reconsider the low sec doomsday.
It provides a lot of scenarios that I quite liked. I liked the fact that lowsec station huggers in cap ships could have it taken away from them in just a couple of seconds. I was also quite excited about setting a trap for one of these titans in lowsec. I think we could have snagged one and the change to prevent dd's firing in lowesec deprived me of that opportunity.
Please reconsider it!
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Hacra
Minmatar Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.12.23 11:03:00 -
[342]
Quote: A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
+2.5% armor resistances per level +2.5% Fighter damage per level
Just a suggestion
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.23 11:15:00 -
[343]
I'm just adding my voice to those who say the Hel should give a fighter (and maybe drone too? ) velocity bonus. Another good alternative might be fighter sig radius reduction.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.23 11:34:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Hacra
+2.5% armor resistances per level +2.5% Fighter damage per level
Just a suggestion
it would leave hel being the only ms with 2 bonues (apart of the obvious ones)
it should be either: - speed bonus for fighters/bombers - ehp bonus for fighters/bombers (im currently voting for this one btw) - dmg bonus for bombers ONLY (leaving nyx with the fighter bonus only tbh)
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Hacra
Minmatar Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.12.23 11:52:00 -
[345]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Hacra
+2.5% armor resistances per level +2.5% Fighter damage per level
Just a suggestion
it would leave hel being the only ms with 2 bonues (apart of the obvious ones)
it should be either: - speed bonus for fighters/bombers - ehp bonus for fighters/bombers (im currently voting for this one btw) - dmg bonus for bombers ONLY (leaving nyx with the fighter bonus only tbh)
But as you can see it shares two different bonuses from two different races, dowsinde being that the bonuses would be halved of normal (+5%), this would actually make Hel worthwhile purchase, also not overpowerfull imho.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.23 12:26:00 -
[346]
i would rather take 1 full bonus than 2x 1/2 :x
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.12.23 12:27:00 -
[347]
Citadel missile training requirements
People are complaining about these not just because Citadel missiles are much more skill intensive then capital guns, but because they don't make any sense.
The trend is that although the overall missile skill tree is considerably longer than any single gunnery skill tree, you have the option to start at various points in the tree. For example, to use Cruise requires only one skill to V - Missile Launcher Operation (MLO). And to use torpedoes, MLO to only IV is required. This is counterbalanced by the sheer existence of two separate skills for large missiles, in contrast to the greater prerequisites for large guns, but the existence of only one skill - e.g., large hybrid turret, with no separation into blasters and rails.
But this logic breaks down in your iteration of capital missiles. Here, we have separate skills for citadel Cruise and citadel torps, following the normal missile trend - but the skill requirements follow those of gunnery, requiring Cruise V and Torps V. This really is the worst of both worlds and makes no sense.
The solution is for citadel missiles to follow either the gunnery pattern, or the missile pattern - not the current mess of following both and ****ing everyone off. The "gunnery pattern" would be for there to be a single "Citadel Missiles" skill with prerequisites of Cruise V to use Citadel Cruise and torps V to use Citadel Torps. Alternatively, they could follow the "missile pattern", where the current separation of citadel missile skills into Cruise and Torps remains, but the skill prerequisites of Cruise V and torps V, respectively, are dropped to Missile Launcher Operation V.
Making citadel missiles follow the gunnery pattern doesn't make any sense, frankly, and would incur problems with the removal of skill points. So I advise that the "missile pattern" is followed, and the skill requirements of Citadel Cruise and citadel torps of Cruise V and torps V, respectively, are dropped to MLO V for both.
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DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 12:43:00 -
[348]
Ok Super Carriers will be back on the Battlefield but I'm a bit worried with the impact of these ships in 0.0 fleet fights... Not because of the fire power or HP boost but because of the 20 drones/fighters/Fighter Bombers they can and will release during battles. Battles are already extremely laggy and with these big boys coming back to the BF I can easily see hundreds/Thousands of additional drones being deployed during a fight.... everybody here knows what will happen... LAG BOMB...
Isn't possible to diminish the number of drones they can deploy and boost in the same proportion EHP, Fire power etc... This will NOT be a nerf to the Super Carriers but can have a deep impact preventing additional lag in a already extreme laggy BF.
God is my Wingman |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 12:55:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: ByFstugan 1) - FB's are only for capitals and most carriers has at least one smartbomb and all capitals can withstand smartbombs for a very very long time. Hence it's "suicide" to send FB's to enemy capital-blob, but almost no risk for enemy to stop them. So the new role for the capital-killer Supercarrier will not be possible in large scale nullsec fighting, but only in mostly impossible to find 1v1 supercarrier vs some other capital.
2) - Fighters are mostly effective versus Battleships, even if they can be used towards both smaller and largers targets the DPS either has hard to hit (smaller) or doesn't do much very damage in targets total hitpoints (caps). BS's doesn't mostly have smartboms. And even if they did they can't withstand 5-10 smartbombs all over for to long. Hence there are less risk using the Fighters and if U send them into an hostile capital blob U'r not really doing what they was meant to do.
3) - And once again what I think they should change to; if they become an XL Sentry Drone that fires torpedos it's not very strange that they can fly decent distances - and it would look awesome :p
1) Similar to how things are today. That's one major reason I barely used Fighters in capital ops. I've sent mine to Dreads, but if carriers has been on the field I used sentries. That's not gonna change with FB's around (if anything it might get worse). The problem is not the smartbombs (or bombs) in itself, it's how slow they are by default - and directly unresponsible in lag situations. I.e. CCP are adding a Fighter 2.0-concept, a concept that has a design flaw by default.
There's no problem as per se in FB's itself, it's a problem with the Fighter family.
2) Yes, I already said that.
3) That would be 'cool', and it would solve their vulnerability vs smartbombs/bombs, and it would also solve the recall issues in laggy situations. But it goes against what CCP posted as a 'strength' with motherships (and carriers). They've been talking about how one of the defensive mechanisms carriers/motherships have is the mobility on the field (unlike sieged/triaged ships), so giving moms a "sentryfighter" would mean that suddenly we're immobile?
I'm not sure that's what devs want. I could personally buy that concept, but I'd also want a fix to Fighters as they work today (they're too unresponsible, too slow).. and a fix to that would be a fix to FB's be default.
1) Yes, but the big difference is that Carriers main role isn't a fighter on the Battlefield, but instead to be a Logistics support vessel. Hence it's ability to kill caps to the enemy isn't a priotity, it's to keep the friendlys alive. I'm also a Carrier pilot, but I think them having Fighters as they are today is enough, we need to remember their main role and that the Fighters is merely a bonus/option.
2) Nothing to say here ^^
3) In my earlier proposal - http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1236843&page=11#306 - I propose the solution to the mobility issue. This XL sentrys would have a "Return to Ship" engine (which regular ones could need also - even if it would be slow) and perhaps even a "Follow ship" command. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
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Posted - 2009.12.23 13:37:00 -
[350]
Capitals should play the Rick Roll as they drop onto the battlefield.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 14:00:00 -
[351]
Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 23/12/2009 14:02:01
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 23/12/2009 09:04:17
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Marlona Sky
*sigh*
Let me clarify for you. Remote ECM Burst should jam everything within the burst radius. So instead of just making people lose thier lock, they are jammed for 20 seconds as well.
Does this clarify it for you?
Yup, I already posted that exact request a few pages back. Thanks for taking the time to read the thread before posting.
You said some duration on it. I am suggesting 20 seconds. I was simply being specific.
I have read every single post you have made in this thread. In most of these threads, even if you do give some feedback on the topic, it also comes with some form of troll to the poster. I think you will find COAD to be more your style. Have a wonderful day NedFromAssembly.
Now for the trolling aspect. Do you realize what would happen to 0.0 combat if 5 MS can completely shut down a hostile bs blob? There's a reason I didnt specify "20 seconds" a simple 1-5 second duration would still be pretty overpowered but wouldn't allow half a dozen MS to permajam an entire gang.
In summary, stop being dumb.
PS. Please make the wyvern and nyx larger than dreads.
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Cain Negestor
Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 14:02:00 -
[352]
Originally by: LoveKebab
it should be either: - speed bonus for fighters/bombers - ehp bonus for fighters/bombers (im currently voting for this one btw) - dmg bonus for bombers ONLY (leaving nyx with the fighter bonus only tbh)
This, basicly. Also Shield slaves and the old/updated cyno effect.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 14:19:00 -
[353]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 23/12/2009 14:19:41 When it comes to the Slaves vs Crystal on Capitals I really don't think that the solution lies in making Crystals work for them.
Since Titans and MS's [will] have a massive EHP this days the active tank is of no use - so there need to either be a counterpart for the slaves that make a Shield HP-buff or the Slaves need to stop work for the armortankers. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Jade Kitana
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Posted - 2009.12.23 14:36:00 -
[354]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
The low sec DD thing - I'll ask. No promises.
The only real use for DDs in Low Sec is for DD drive-bys. If you don't have a support fleet to take out the single target that the DD would destroy, you probably shouldn't be flying the thing.
I don't think DD drive-bys is a good game mechanic. If you have the balls to use this thing, you should have the balls to stick around afterwards.
I think you could still allow DDs in Low Sec if you made Drive-bys far less effective. Possible approaches:
- Increase DD warm up to be in excess to docking timer, but maybe less than the aggression timer. - Increase Titan imobility after firing DD to something like 90-120 seconds.
There should be no reason or incentive to warp a Titan on Grid, engage, then leave again as soon as possible. They should only be used when you intend to stay on grid, as a show of resolve.
Alowing DD drive-bys is just silly tbh.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 14:49:00 -
[355]
I am against the low sec DD but I am also against the DD having a 30-40 second charge up time. That is just ludicrous. Sorry if titans ruined your undock games, but it's been a huge complain from the eve community for a long time.
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Arzal
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 15:03:00 -
[356]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Hacra
+2.5% armor resistances per level +2.5% Fighter damage per level
Just a suggestion
it would leave hel being the only ms with 2 bonues (apart of the obvious ones)
it should be either: - speed bonus for fighters/bombers - ehp bonus for fighters/bombers (im currently voting for this one btw) - dmg bonus for bombers ONLY (leaving nyx with the fighter bonus only tbh)
option 4 - Target painter bonus! seriously though if its big enough could be usefull! for once....
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Aylara
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Posted - 2009.12.23 15:12:00 -
[357]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: keuel
Quote: Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8
Why not 6.3 that you said before on another topic? I think it suits better from the exchange of the 50% drones per lvl. Or just forget about the rail dmg mod and return the drone bonus to 50, or better, put 25% or 30% and let the 5.8x dmg on rails.
Or we could just balance the 1000mm damage against the other XL turrets regardless of what those silly drones are doing.
Sadly, those silly drones don't shoot past 60km (with max skills), so the Moros is getting a damage nerf past 60 km regardless the setup you might have. You guys should consider a bigger default drone control range, or apply the bonus to the drone control range also.
Ty.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 15:48:00 -
[358]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly In summary, stop being dumb.
Impossible to make a comment without being an ass?
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.23 15:54:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Jade Kitana The only real use for DDs in Low Sec is for DD drive-bys.
This. Additionally the low-sec DD can make usage of triage carrier as a support for BS gangs useless when it can be insta-popped with no real way to defend. Thus no point deploying one.
Also: - increase the size of Mom/SC - can we please have a different name for them than the lame 'SUPPAH-carrier'? - bring back the old cyno effect.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 15:54:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: NedFromAssembly In summary, stop being dumb.
Impossible to make a comment without being an ass?
Is my alliance ticker not showing?
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 16:39:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Kersh Marelor
Originally by: Jade Kitana The only real use for DDs in Low Sec is for DD drive-bys.
This. Additionally the low-sec DD can make usage of triage carrier as a support for BS gangs useless when it can be insta-popped with no real way to defend. Thus no point deploying one.
Also: - increase the size of Mom/SC - can we please have a different name for them than the lame 'SUPPAH-carrier'? - bring back the old cyno effect.
I agree with everything after the "Also" in this post. I saw Assault Carriers suggested earlier in the thread, I fully endorse that name.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 17:13:00 -
[362]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: NedFromAssembly In summary, stop being dumb.
Impossible to make a comment without being an ass?
Is my alliance ticker not showing?
And goonswarm emo rages about how no one takes them seriously when it comes to things like this. Take your stupid ass outta here and get back to COAD.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 17:36:00 -
[363]
Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 23/12/2009 17:38:01
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 23/12/2009 17:17:21
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: NedFromAssembly In summary, stop being dumb.
Impossible to make a comment without being an ass?
Is my alliance ticker not showing?
And goonswarm emo rages about how no one takes them seriously when it comes to things like this. Take your stupid ass outta here and get back to COAD.
EDIT: YES! 5 suppercarriers/moms should do well against a bs fleet that decides to stay grouped up in one cluster instead of spreading out. Considering the amount of ISK the mom pilots are risking vs. the bs fleet.
Logging in to play the game would do you well.
That is the same thought process that lead to a ship able to wipe out entire fleets with one button "because its worth more"
I really couldn't care less if you don't see the logic in these statements but fighter bombers were an idea I proposed so obviously *someone* is listening.
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Saul Reaver
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:01:00 -
[364]
Edited by: Saul Reaver on 23/12/2009 18:06:53 Edited by: Saul Reaver on 23/12/2009 18:03:19
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Lowsec doomsdays back please!
I can understand why you removed them to stop motherships being one-shotted but once the mothership hitpoint boost is back in can we have doomsdays re-enabled for lowsec. It was quite excellent to have an answer for station dock-gaming carriers.
I don't think low sec DD's will be of any use. Considering most fights involving Titans happen in null sec. They didnt allow the original DD to be allowed in low sec so what makes you think they will allow it with the new DD?
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:26:00 -
[365]
because its a focused weapon and not a slap everything on grid thing ?
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:36:00 -
[366]
As stated earlier the new one would only encourage drive by's. Hilarious as they are I don't think it's how they intended titans to be used.
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:46:00 -
[367]
if it where intended for anything else but drivebys it wouldnt have the hilarious refire delay
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Darknesss
NibbleTek
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:54:00 -
[368]
Just posting to say thankyou CCP for coming to your senses, seriously those changes on the MS are perfect (dont change them again).
Dark
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Arra Lith
HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:59:00 -
[369]
Edited by: Arra Lith on 23/12/2009 19:05:08
Missile-based capital ship (Phoenix) really needs some serious overhaul. Or there will be only 3 dreads worth using.
Main disadvantage of missiles is delayed damage. Delayed damage means that missile-ship starts doing damage after ~ 20 seconds (depends on range to target) - thats usually 1 less volley than gunnery-ships. If enemy ship is killed by gunnery alpha than missile ships will always do 0 damage. On conventional ships this is compensated by two things. First is ability to adjust damage type (same as gunnery ships can adjust damage/range by switching ammo - projectiles can adjust both damage type dealt and range now). Second is that base missile damage is at least same as closest range gunnery ammo. Here is some comparision - proof:
1) Cruise missile launcher II vs 425mm Railgun II Cruise DMG = 300 / RoF = 17.6 Base DPS (unmodified by skills and ship bonuses) = 17.045
425mm Railgun + Antimatter L DMG = 48 * DmgMod = 3.3 / RoF = 9.563 Base DPS = 16.56
Cruise / 425mm ratio = 102.93% (almost 3 % higher base dps)
2) Siege torpedo II vs Neutron Blaster II Torpedo DMG = 450 / RoF = 14.4 Base DPS = 31.25
Neutron Blaster + Antimatter L DMG = 48 * DmgMod = 4.2 / RoF = 7.875 Base DPS = 25.6
Torpedo / Neutron ratio = 122.07% (almost 22 % higher base dps)
3) Heavy Missile II vs Railgun 250mm II HM DMG = 150 / RoF = 12 Base DPS = 12.5
Railgun 250mm + Antimatter M DMG = 24 * DmgMod = 3.3 / RoF = 6.375 Base DPS = 12.42
HM / Railgun = 100.6% (almost same base dps)
That is why missiles work at conventional ships, despite disadvantages (lower bonuses from skills / delayed damage) - they work especially well in PvE. Higher base DPS is KEY.
As for capital ships. Citadel missiles keep all their disadvantages but DO NOT KEEP THEIR ADVANTAGES !!!
Proof:
4) Citadel Cruise vs Dual 1000mm CC DMG = 1500 / RoF = 44 Base DPS = 34.09
Dual 1000mm + Antimatter XL DMG = 96 * DmgMod = 5.8 (new) / RoF = 14.345 Base DPS = 38.81
CitadelCruise / Rail1000mm ratio = 87.8 % (13% lower dps) Delayed damage = equal to first 2 missed volleys (30 seconds missile travel time)
5) Citadel Torpedo vs Ion Siege Blaster CT DMG = 2000 / RoF = 34 Base DPS = 58.82
Ion Siege + Antimatter XL DMG = 96 * DmgMod = 7.92 / RoF = 6.375 Base DPS = 119.26
Torpedo / Ion Siege ratio = 100.6 % (almost same base dps) Delayed damage = equal to first 3 missed volleys (22.5 seconds missile travel time)
Phoenix can't switch damage dealt, like Raven (or Golem) - without losing its damage bonus. Phoenix deal much less DPS than other dreads with highest-damage ammo - making higher DPS as trade off for delayed damage no longer valid. Phoenix still deal delayed damage (thats always min 2 volley hits less than other dreads - 3 less with close range).
When you see those numbers at capitals - Im sure first though is - something is broken here ? Especially with close range weapons - torpedos dealing 2x less damage than Blasters AND Torpedos "missing" first 3 cycles (damage kicks in after blasters succesfully shoot 3 times) AND torpedos cant switch damage type (always kinetic or no bonus..). As for long-range weapons - difference is much less, but still - advantage of bigger damage as trade of for delayed damage is no longer exist at capital ships - and that hurts.
So welcome new era - Revelation & Moros (well and Naglfar too, since it get rid off that missile thingie). Phoenixes will be for funny suicidal stuff only...
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.23 19:52:00 -
[370]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly As stated earlier the new one would only encourage drive by's. Hilarious as they are I don't think it's how they intended titans to be used.
And the DD would be used differently in 0.0?
While not great, it would at least be a counter to station camping capitals. Yes it can also one shot a triage carrier, but a triage carrier will have support on the field (otherwise the carrier wouldnt be there), which allows them to tackle the titan if fast enough.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.23 19:59:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: NedFromAssembly As stated earlier the new one would only encourage drive by's. Hilarious as they are I don't think it's how they intended titans to be used.
And the DD would be used differently in 0.0?
While not great, it would at least be a counter to station camping capitals. Yes it can also one shot a triage carrier, but a triage carrier will have support on the field (otherwise the carrier wouldnt be there), which allows them to tackle the titan if fast enough.
Titans can take the field with other capital sand survive quite well. Most titans can kill a bs every 19 or so seconds(Yes they can track them), do about the same damage to caps and structures as sieged dreads AND can one shot a ship every 10 minutes. Just because you only use them for drive bys does not mean that is all they are good for.
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.12.23 20:26:00 -
[372]
Edited by: Dursun Idris on 23/12/2009 20:32:15 Thanks for making those changes at naglfar. But i will have a further request that i hope most of (especially matar ones)players will agree....
From current naglfar: -1 low slot -2 high slot -2 launcher CPU&Powergrid reduction (equal to grid - cpu usage of citadel launchers -give or take- with max skills)
+%100 damage done by x-large turrets.
If this set-up gives too much damage than intended, it can be fixed by replacing +%5 damage per level with +%7.5 faloff.
The reason of this requested change is; 1- Reducing ridiculus skill requirements to fly the ship. 2- Making it more focused to it's role.
Thank you, and keep up good work
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.23 21:39:00 -
[373]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: NedFromAssembly As stated earlier the new one would only encourage drive by's. Hilarious as they are I don't think it's how they intended titans to be used.
And the DD would be used differently in 0.0?
While not great, it would at least be a counter to station camping capitals. Yes it can also one shot a triage carrier, but a triage carrier will have support on the field (otherwise the carrier wouldnt be there), which allows them to tackle the titan if fast enough.
Titans can take the field with other capital sand survive quite well. Most titans can kill a bs every 19 or so seconds(Yes they can track them), do about the same damage to caps and structures as sieged dreads AND can one shot a ship every 10 minutes. Just because you only use them for drive bys does not mean that is all they are good for.
And why cant they do exactly the same in low sec? There they can also shoot BS, so i dont see why they shouldnt be able to DD there.
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Jon Brutor
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.23 21:42:00 -
[374]
With the hp boost, supercarrier models should be increased by 100%
4,000 m > 8,000 m (Hel) 3,250 m > 6,500 m (Nyx) 3,300 m > 6,600 m (Wyvern) 5,680 m > 11,360 m (Aeon)
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 21:50:00 -
[375]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 23/12/2009 21:55:30 CCP: do you know yet which version of the compact torps we are going to see on SISI? Abathur's, Nozh's or something in between?
P.S. I also support the increase in model size for SCs. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.12.23 22:22:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Jon Brutor With the hp boost, supercarrier models should be increased by 100%
4,000 m > 8,000 m (Hel) 3,250 m > 6,500 m (Nyx) 3,300 m > 6,600 m (Wyvern) 5,680 m > 11,360 m (Aeon)
That would be nice but increasing scale without improving textures will make them look terrible when you are close to them.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.12.23 22:28:00 -
[377]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: SolarKnight
Originally by: ByFstugan Make the Fighter Bombers to XL Sentry Drones instead and with torpedoes that reach decent ranges.
Just also make sure they are given some kind of thruster, so they can "Return to Dronebay" and perhaps even "Follow ship" so U can move on the grid and have them with you. But "Return to Ship" option is the only really important one - other options is maybe nice also, but not needed.
I think it would look awesome also besides that it solves the problem with Fighter Bombers being unusable against enemy capital blobs du to the fact Bobby Atlas pointed out. But imagine the beauty when a Supercarrier lauches their swarm of FB's and start to fire torpedos from all around itself. Yummy mummy ^^
No thanks, leave POS sieges to the dreads please.
First of all - there is no way that Supercarriers would ever compete with Dreads when it comes to POS-warfare. Very few in percentage can ever afford such ship.
Second of all - the proposal isn't about POS-warfare, but instead about making Supercarriers possible to use in large capital fights where there's alot of regular carriers with smartbombs.
And Third - if it would be concidered unwanted from CCP that they could engage POS's it's easily solved in same manner as for Titans - that they simply can't shoot them. Eventhough I don't think they should be stopped from that. It's quite a risk to put SC's outside a hostile POS in todays EVE - even with the EHP-buff they are not untackable or unkillable.
They are already making bombers orbit at like 7.5km+ so they are well out of the way of most smartbombs anyway. (You don't want to be fitting majorly expensive faction mods in huge laggy fights unless you really are rich).
Also, The HP Buff already makes them viable on large scale fights, much more viable then before at least. Especially since with the EHP they have, Reps are futile to fit so they will be very well resist and buffer tanked.
That change will make it much more effective to RR the supercarriers, a cap heavy alliance is not going to struggle to keep these ships alive.
Also, making the drones into sentries is going to make them a lot easier to kill, since they will be stationary during firing.
The Light in the Darkness
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Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 23:04:00 -
[378]
Max EHP tanks with resist across the board and all titan bonus: Erebus bonus for: Erebus and Avatar Leviathan: for leviathan and Ragnarock max skills Fitting: 5 billion for avatar erebus, 20 bilion for rag and leviathan All fittings: Not using sensor booster or other offensive mid slot on the shield titans, which we all now are needed. the armor one have 2 slots to use offensively No fittings include capital repaire module
Erebus: 62 million EHP Avatar: 73 lillion EHP Leviathan: 64 million EHP Rag: 46 million EHP
This obviously need to be balanced out, even the leviathan only reaches 54 if you dedicqte 2 mids to offensive modumes
___ Fear the french touch.
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Marie C1
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.23 23:32:00 -
[379]
Why not to make motherships to dock ? lets say u undocked , u can dock but next undock will be available in 24 hours ? That will stop docking undocking games at station . just a thought
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 23:53:00 -
[380]
Are there any estimated ETA for this patch?
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.24 00:04:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Arzal
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Hacra
+2.5% armor resistances per level +2.5% Fighter damage per level
Just a suggestion
it would leave hel being the only ms with 2 bonues (apart of the obvious ones)
it should be either: - speed bonus for fighters/bombers - ehp bonus for fighters/bombers (im currently voting for this one btw) - dmg bonus for bombers ONLY (leaving nyx with the fighter bonus only tbh)
option 4 - Target painter bonus! seriously though if its big enough could be usefull! for once....
on a shield tanking ship ? :D (kinda waste of a med slot tbh) besides all bonuses are passive :)
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.24 00:08:00 -
[382]
Originally by: SolarKnight
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: SolarKnight
Originally by: ByFstugan Make the Fighter Bombers to XL Sentry Drones instead and with torpedoes that reach decent ranges.
Just also make sure they are given some kind of thruster, so they can "Return to Dronebay" and perhaps even "Follow ship" so U can move on the grid and have them with you. But "Return to Ship" option is the only really important one - other options is maybe nice also, but not needed.
I think it would look awesome also besides that it solves the problem with Fighter Bombers being unusable against enemy capital blobs du to the fact Bobby Atlas pointed out. But imagine the beauty when a Supercarrier lauches their swarm of FB's and start to fire torpedos from all around itself. Yummy mummy ^^
No thanks, leave POS sieges to the dreads please.
First of all - there is no way that Supercarriers would ever compete with Dreads when it comes to POS-warfare. Very few in percentage can ever afford such ship.
Second of all - the proposal isn't about POS-warfare, but instead about making Supercarriers possible to use in large capital fights where there's alot of regular carriers with smartbombs.
And Third - if it would be concidered unwanted from CCP that they could engage POS's it's easily solved in same manner as for Titans - that they simply can't shoot them. Eventhough I don't think they should be stopped from that. It's quite a risk to put SC's outside a hostile POS in todays EVE - even with the EHP-buff they are not untackable or unkillable.
(1) They are already making bombers orbit at like 7.5km+ so they are well out of the way of most smartbombs anyway. (You don't want to be fitting majorly expensive faction mods in huge laggy fights unless you really are rich).
(2) Also, The HP Buff already makes them viable on large scale fights, much more viable then before at least. Especially since with the EHP they have, Reps are futile to fit so they will be very well resist and buffer tanked.
(3) That change will make it much more effective to RR the supercarriers, a cap heavy alliance is not going to struggle to keep these ships alive.
(4) Also, making the drones into sentries is going to make them a lot easier to kill, since they will be stationary during firing.
1) The thing U say about the orbit range only shows U haven't read what either Bobby Atlas or me talked about properly. The problem is the capital-BLOBS with carriers all over where the FB's can't be sent in to orbit on Capitals smartbombrange without being killed by the 20-50 other carriers smartbombs all around it.
2) The EHP large enough to put SC's on the field is of small comfort for they who wanna use them for the good of the fleet also if it's useless to send it into the hostile capital-blob when the FB's get basicaly instapoped in there (at least popped faster than U can recall them).
3) Still good if they are usable - without triage they don't do any wonders as logistics.
4) Read my proposal properly - I've in each comment made very clear that they should be possible to move without having to get back to their sentrys. I proposed at first an "Return to ship" thruster and perhaps also an "follow ship" one - and on the end I added a suggestion that the XL Sentry FB's should always orbit ship and even fire it torpedos orbiting. That way U can always move wherever U want on the field and the FB's will follow. U do however need to be careful to the Stealth Bomber fleets and their bombs - but that's ok - some counter should exist. And this one the way with the magnitude it's starting to be used is always nearby for any SC with hostiles in system. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.24 03:09:00 -
[383]
CCP plz also comment on the Flagship solution that has been mentioned both here and in earlier threads. So far I've seen no Dev acknowledged they have read it even, and it's been mentioned and liked by a bunch of ppl.
The proposal is mentioned here and in three posts total, the last one being a tl;dr for the lazy. Perhaps that's good to read first and then read the thoughts and motivations to all things in the two first posts: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=61#1820
I know U already said no to the active tank bonus, but ignore that then and focus on the other ideas. And please discuss and comment. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.12.24 03:25:00 -
[384]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 24/12/2009 03:27:21 I too, would like to hear a comment on the supercarrier/flagship design. I have posted elsewhere that I think that's the best way to design the ship, it fits within the current scheme already and would simply require boosts to the command link modules.
I've seen some very positive feedback from players on it and think that would really give it it's own role within the capital fleet.
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Xrious
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.24 06:06:00 -
[385]
Excellent, nice work.
I think a speed/sig bonus to FB's would be best for the hel. Repping doesn't really fit with its role IMHO.
Only other comment, and its a minor one, would be getting the ships to scale. Titan, 15km, Mum/SC 11km, Carrier 3km. Yet the models definitely don't reflect that.
X
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Shadi Dee
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Posted - 2009.12.24 09:33:00 -
[386]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Fire Hawk Max EHP tanks with resist across the board and all titan bonus: Erebus bonus for: Erebus and Avatar Leviathan: for leviathan and Ragnarock
yea and then let's add zealot, sacri, geddon, abaddon etc. for gallente and vice versa, same goes to caldari <-> minmatar...
THINK DUDE... THINK...
Originally by: Fire Hawk
Fitting: 5 billion for avatar erebus, 20 bilion for rag and leviathan
noone asks u to fit 2x thon's modified invul fields...
I assume you're trolling, you can't be that stupid.
We are talking about a ship class where differences between races are all about tank and bonuses and you compare Ragnarok and Avatar the same way you compare Vagabond and Zealot...
Unless we talk about roaming titans, you must be trolling, right?
Now, while Avatar have better ehp, Leviathan performs better under fire due higher resists, both being remote repped so i'd say it's a fair tradeoff..
Erebus have a nice bonus and decent tank, Ragnarok on the other hand have nothing to justify overall crap status compared to the other titans.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.24 10:48:00 -
[387]
Low sec DD is not a good idea because goes again agaisnt makign low sec more attracctive for players. Low sec is already under populated. Most titan pilots are cowards that want just a giant epeen and will move to low sec because they are afraid of using it in 0.0 now and will go terrorize random carrier just traveling in low sec. A lot of people use carriers and JF to move stuff and ships in low sec ad find low sec POSSIBLE TO LIVE ON, just because of that. Destroy that and you have even less people in low sec. Low sec ias already too short on population.
No improvement overall for the game with DD in low sec.. The only bennefit is to a few select cowards that are unable to bring their ships to where they are supposed to be used. Do not damage the game to stroke the ego of a few select egomaniacs that think they are leet for killing carriers in low sec with 1 button press...
There is ZERO improvement for low sec community and environment with that. ZERO! And is RP wise illogical, as if the empires would love to see titans attacking ships undocking from stations under their sov.
The carrier docking games should be solved in a completely different way! Simply changing capital ship agro timmers (making redock unable )to 5 minutes.
The titan need to defend itself arguMENT is pure CRAP! The DD is not a defensive weapon anymore and woudl NEVER save any titan tackled in low sec!
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.24 10:50:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Shadi Dee I assume you're trolling, you can't be that stupid.
We are talking about a ship class where differences between races are all about tank and bonuses and you compare Ragnarok and Avatar the same way you compare Vagabond and Zealot...
Unless we talk about roaming titans, you must be trolling, right?
Now, while Avatar have better ehp, Leviathan performs better under fire due higher resists, both being remote repped so i'd say it's a fair tradeoff..
Erebus have a nice bonus and decent tank, Ragnarok on the other hand have nothing to justify overall crap status compared to the other titans.
obviously u missed the point where some1 proposed giving both armor titans armor bonus and both shield titans shield bonus - that idea is as good as giving unique faction ships to diferent one ;x
btw it's easy to get 40m ehp on a shield tanking titan without having to spend over 8b on hardeners and pdus and u still have room for booster, sba or whatever u want to fit
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Shadi Dee
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Posted - 2009.12.24 11:31:00 -
[389]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Shadi Dee I assume you're trolling, you can't be that stupid.
We are talking about a ship class where differences between races are all about tank and bonuses and you compare Ragnarok and Avatar the same way you compare Vagabond and Zealot...
Unless we talk about roaming titans, you must be trolling, right?
Now, while Avatar have better ehp, Leviathan performs better under fire due higher resists, both being remote repped so i'd say it's a fair tradeoff..
Erebus have a nice bonus and decent tank, Ragnarok on the other hand have nothing to justify overall crap status compared to the other titans.
obviously u missed the point where some1 proposed giving both armor titans armor bonus and both shield titans shield bonus - that idea is as good as giving unique faction ships to diferent one ;x
No, he just explained how ehp are calculated, with Erebus bonus for armor tankers and Leviathan for shield.
Tbh, Leviathan have more flexibility than Avatar (with his sensor boosters), you can use full pds for max tank or damage mods for 5k+ dps.. or even a combination of both, even nano fit.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2009.12.24 14:18:00 -
[390]
About the number of drones in carriers and supercarrier, have you thought about increasing a drones defence while decreasing the dronebay size? In a battle small enough for hostiles to concentate on your drones to defang you before working ont he ship itself a carrier and supercarrier can very well loose 100s of drones.
If carrier and supercarrer had a role bonus for signature reduction or resists on drones that would offset a dronebay limit. -
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gillopi
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Posted - 2009.12.24 14:37:00 -
[391]
Man I'm bummed. it did say capital on the heading to this posting right? Wheres the carrier? Or is not a capital ship?
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 16:30:00 -
[392]
Originally by: gillopi Man I'm bummed.
sorry about that.. i slipped...
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Skags
Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 16:46:00 -
[393]
How bout bringing fighter bombers into the sov war game being able to us against the TCU, SBU, and ihub destruction? Or did i not read something and you can.
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2009.12.24 17:30:00 -
[394]
Abathur, many people have requested a third turret hardpoint on the Naglfar and this is not possible due to the art department bottleneck. However What about 3 highslots (1x siege, 2x guns) and a role bonus (75%? 100%?) to XL projectiles to balance damage? This has been repeatedly requested but always ignored.
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2009.12.24 17:43:00 -
[395]
Fighter-bomber survivability: I see two potential solutions to this.
Option 1) Remove the engines from fighter bombers, increase torp range. They are now "missile sentries"
Option 2) Role bonus: (temporary measure) 50% bomb resistance and 25% smartbomb resistance.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.24 18:58:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Abathur, many people have requested a third turret hardpoint on the Naglfar and this is not possible due to the art department bottleneck. However What about 3 highslots (1x siege, 2x guns) and a role bonus (75%? 100%?) to XL projectiles to balance damage? This has been repeatedly requested but always ignored.
there is no real NEED for it. As long as the bonuses are focused on turrets and most o dps comes from turret. I f you give a role bonus you will jsut make people of other races whien and complain.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.12.24 19:41:00 -
[397]
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Abathur, many people have requested a third turret hardpoint on the Naglfar and this is not possible due to the art department bottleneck. However What about 3 highslots (1x siege, 2x guns) and a role bonus (75%? 100%?) to XL projectiles to balance damage? This has been repeatedly requested but always ignored.
No need for it.
--Isaac
Signature is now under construction: check back in a couple weeks. Or months....
AMAAR VICTOR!
"You just can't fix stupid"
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.24 20:32:00 -
[398]
Please, someone show me a viable Leviathan fit that has more than 50 mil ehp..
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.24 21:24:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Sokratesz Please, someone show me a viable Leviathan fit that has more than 50 mil ehp..
[eft warrior 1] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Pith X-Type Ballistic Deflection Field Pith X-Type Explosion Dampening Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.24 21:31:00 -
[400]
Thanks for breaking the EFT block so we have to enter it manually
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.24 21:52:00 -
[401]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Sokratesz Please, someone show me a viable Leviathan fit that has more than 50 mil ehp..
[eft warrior 1] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Pith X-Type Ballistic Deflection Field Pith X-Type Explosion Dampening Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
I stressed the important bits.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Joabinanias
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Posted - 2009.12.24 23:06:00 -
[402]
I feel that's a very viable levi fit. The low cap regen problem is solved by having the carriers that are supporting you fit a remote energy reps.
It gets 50m+ EHP with a somewhat decent passive defense. There might be a lot of faction gear to buy but it's not as expensive as if you needed officer mods to get those kind of stats.
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John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.24 23:08:00 -
[403]
There is something else that needs fixing on the Super Carriers. The bay sizes.
If you go look at the fuel bay / CHA of the Titans vs. Super Carriers there is something very wrong there.
The Titan has a fuel bay of 60,000 m3 vs. the 5,000 m3 of the Super Carrier. I then thought, ok... but the Super carrier would have a larger CHA that the Titan. This isn't even correct. A Titan has a CHA of 100,000 m3 vs. the Super Carriers 50,000 m3.
Isn't something wrong there?
The other thing to possibly look at is the part bonuses of the Triage that you are now planning to remove from Super Carriers. Would it not be worth making the remote rep bonus passive? Not the local rep as it would make the SC kinda overpowered?
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Elassus Herron
Caldari Construction Cabal Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2009.12.25 00:02:00 -
[404]
for heaven's sake, can we not call them "Supercarriers"? That sounds soooo dopey ("Oh yeah? Well XYZ Alliance has ten Superdupercarriers! We're gonna omgpwn uuu! Lolz!!!1")
I propose calling them "Fleet" carriers, especially since they now field a small fleet all on their own.
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Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 00:06:00 -
[405]
All hail Abathur.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.25 00:23:00 -
[406]
Assault Carriers
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.25 00:38:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Elassus Herron for heaven's sake, can we not call them "Supercarriers"? That sounds soooo dopey ("Oh yeah? Well XYZ Alliance has ten Superdupercarriers! We're gonna omgpwn uuu! Lolz!!!1")
I propose calling them "Fleet" carriers, especially since they now field a small fleet all on their own.
As has already been stressed, supercarrier is already a widely-adopted term in the real world. Seeing as most ships follow real-world classifications, I see no reason why these should be any different.
And for christ's sake, you can call them whatever the hell you want; the only noticeable effect a name change would have is in the flavor text. You can still call it a mom, a flying spaghetti ship, or a spaceduck for all anyone cares.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.12.25 05:59:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Elassus Herron for heaven's sake, can we not call them "Supercarriers"? That sounds soooo dopey ("Oh yeah? Well XYZ Alliance has ten Superdupercarriers! We're gonna omgpwn uuu! Lolz!!!1")
I propose calling them "Fleet" carriers, especially since they now field a small fleet all on their own.
CCP's own stories (especially the Empyrean Age) constantly called the "moms" Supercarriers. It works.
--Isaac
Signature is now under construction: check back in a couple weeks. Or months....
AMAAR VICTOR!
"You just can't fix stupid"
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Rejected Enlightenment
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.25 07:06:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Sokratesz I stressed the important bits.
Please don't comment on supercap fits as you obviously have no idea how to fit them properly.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.25 12:14:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Joabinanias I feel that's a very viable levi fit. The low cap regen problem is solved by having the carriers that are supporting you fit a remote energy reps.
It gets 50m+ EHP with a somewhat decent passive defense. There might be a lot of faction gear to buy but it's not as expensive as if you needed officer mods to get those kind of stats.
You're gonna want 1 or 2 BCU's to get a decent DPS out of your torps, and wtb volunteers to fly carriers with the sole purpose of providing cap for a titan.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.12.25 12:33:00 -
[411]
Edited by: Dursun Idris on 25/12/2009 12:35:32
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Joabinanias I feel that's a very viable levi fit. The low cap regen problem is solved by having the carriers that are supporting you fit a remote energy reps.
It gets 50m+ EHP with a somewhat decent passive defense. There might be a lot of faction gear to buy but it's not as expensive as if you needed officer mods to get those kind of stats.
You're gonna want 1 or 2 BCU's to get a decent DPS out of your torps, and wtb volunteers to fly carriers with the sole purpose of providing cap for a titan.
In a large fleet fight, i believe more survival would be much more desired than doing extra 1-2 dread dps for a titan. I agree with your comment about cap.
Edit: And please ccp do not throw away the idea of a marauder-like turret naglfar.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.25 12:37:00 -
[412]
And then there's still the issue of the missing 37.5% shield hp due to gang bonuses.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Keria Nue
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Posted - 2009.12.25 13:14:00 -
[413]
I think a large issue and one that needs to be addressed is the "Supercarrier" docking ability, or lack there of.
Seeing as these ships are getting a boost and much love, you maybe want to see more people flying them on a regular basis? One of the main issues that presents it's self is the need for a pilot to actually maintain an alt just to hold their ship so they don't get it stolen. Now, if toss it into the POS shields then you take a huge risk of losing the ship to a friendly and not so friendly thief who sees a beautiful ship for the taking.
You can put in some rule that states that you can't undock it for like an hour or something, or maybe you can't redock for an hour. Add in a module that must be attached to the station to allow it to have super caps dock. Something that will allow it to dock and be safe while you are offline, or while you are flying another ship. I for one hate that I must have an alt hold the ship for me. So, I train an character to fly a Nyx only to turn around and have to train another character just to hold it. Is this counter productive? What happens when I end up buying another one for the fun of it? Do I then train another so it can hold the next one? Really?
Now, I can understand a Titan, it's the big boy, the one that is top of the food chain, but really is a "Supercarrier" top anymore? Not really. It's still very limited on what it can do. Take out it's Fighter Bomber/Fighter wings and it is a tiger without claws or teeth just waiting for the hunter to go, "BANG, YOUR DEAD!!!" If you are really going to listen to your players as it seems you are right now, maybe this should be one of the ones you listen to? The one that pretty much everyone is screaming for.
PS. If the main reason behind the thinking of not allowing them to dock is because of size issue of it undocking from a station and realism like some in other threads have suggested it may be, well just think about these stations that hold 34 Charons in it at a time and are no bigger then a Chimera!? Where is your realism there? It's Eve, throw that out the window and realize that your not gonna get it.
PPS. Great fixes otherwise, love it, any idea when it will be out? Next month? Two, three or so down the line? Would love to know for skill training on another toon soon to be in a Mom/Supercarrier.
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Arzal
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 15:02:00 -
[414]
Originally by: Keria Nue - Stuff about docking xmoms-.
No docking, simple, it would make it the most overpowered docking game ship ever. also there needs to be a way of limiting them, and having to have another alt to use/sit in it (personally i have a alt that sits 100% of the time in it) is the best way of limiting it, not everyone will fly one, and as you can pay for accounts and chars with isk, I don't see a problem.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.25 16:25:00 -
[415]
They don't need to dock. There's no reason to let you ***gots in lowsec play undock games with these too.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.25 19:01:00 -
[416]
I don't really see the large point in why they shouln't be docked - the only reason I agree is rational is the limiting factor - but I think the price handles that pretty much so the not docking is not needed.
About docking-games one could instead of saying it wouldn't work imagine ways to solve that. - Loooong aggrotimers for larger ships (if there's 1 hour aggression I doubt many would play docking-games). - You only could dock once a day. - One could make the ships unable to aggress on X km from or within dockinggrid. Same solution as to smartbombs in empire. - Or limited docking to Player owned structures, with perhaps one of the above also. - Or limited docking to specially upgraded stations that was suggested by CCP earlier, with perhaps one of the above also.
Seems that most that have problem with this ships docking doesn't see there might be solutions to the problem it could cause. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 19:49:00 -
[417]
With a ship as powerful as the SC will become, it MUST require commitment.
I.E. that of an alternate character. NO DOCKING. not now, not ever. i'm a lowsec pilot. and the docking games would be ridiculous.
-rock
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Kalissa
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 21:01:00 -
[418]
I own a mothership with has been in mothballs since Dominion and wil be until 1.1 comes out, I know atm and for the forseeable future MS's will not be dockable, and I accept this in a trade off with the advantages this ship will gain in Dominion 1.1
But seriously, the biggest arguement people seem to have about MS's not being able to dock is "docking games"? I mean thats about the weakest arguement for something I've heard in a long time. Locking times on these ships even with SB's isnt exactly instant you know. You'd have to foul up pretty bad to get yourself locked and blown up by a MS in low sec. And if you're in a partiularly big ship that it could lock, then may I suggest the age old tactic of an alt making an insta warp out spot.
It just bugs me that the best arguement that some can make against is the docking games one, it's just pure BS
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Julie Lin
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Posted - 2009.12.25 21:04:00 -
[419]
No DD in lowsec!
Letting titans DD in lowsec will just make it more of a dessert then it already is, we don't need bubble immune ships who can do fly bys and kill carriers/jfs with one shoot.
Also, it would make lowsec a extension of the big alliances space because then they can hotdrop any small corp / small alliance cap fleet with 10+ titans and wtfbbq them.
So send those cowards residing in their Titans to where they are meant to be used - in 0.0.
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Cpt AngelNova
Amarr Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.25 21:34:00 -
[420]
Originally by: ByFstugan I don't really see the large point in why they shouln't be docked - the only reason I agree is rational is the limiting factor - but I think the price handles that pretty much so the not docking is not needed.
About docking-games one could instead of saying it wouldn't work imagine ways to solve that. - Loooong aggrotimers for larger ships (if there's 1 hour aggression I doubt many would play docking-games). - You only could dock once a day. - One could make the ships unable to aggress on X km from or within dockinggrid. Same solution as to smartbombs in empire. - Or limited docking to Player owned structures, with perhaps one of the above also. - Or limited docking to specially upgraded stations that was suggested by CCP earlier, with perhaps one of the above also.
Seems that most that have problem with this ships docking doesn't see there might be solutions to the problem it could cause.
I agree with this, saying they cant dock because of a fear of docking games is really irrelevant when the issue can be countered in so many ways. Hek you can give it the cloan jump timer if you must. As for size.... well.. unless CCP has changed that already go onto SISI and fly a Phoenix alongside a Wyvren or hel or Aeon... you can use any other dread really, even the Naglfar, just turn it sideways .. point is, moms arnt much bigger, so unless the devs changes the physical size so they actually look like super capitals visually and not just in the statistics i say make em dock.
I liked the original idea CCP had about making then dockable only in upgraded player owned outposts, tho this could be a problem in NPC 0.0 like the wildlands ? compaired to an 0.0 region that can be fully developed.
Hel
As for bonuses to the hel id give it a defense bonus, as it stands now the hel is the weakest of the moms, apart from having lower base EHP it also has less low or med slots to support it
Naglfar
I support a turret only dread for one reason and one reason only. Skill training. as it stands now you need a serious amount of training to properly fit a naglfar
Flagship.
the idea suggested one page back in this tread. i LIKE it !
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.25 21:43:00 -
[421]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 25/12/2009 21:46:16
Originally by: Kalissa But seriously, the biggest arguement people seem to have about MS's not being able to dock is "docking games"?
The biggest argument is that not being able to dock is the single greatest limit on their proliferation. People simply bring up the "docking games" thing more because that will be the (direct) negative consequence most people would experience from it. I support an outpost addon that is enormously expensive and difficult to acquire, but they should never be able to dock in normal stations.
Quote: so unless the devs changes the physical size so they actually look like super capitals visually and not just in the statistics i say make em dock.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.25 21:54:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Kalissa I own a mothership with has been in mothballs since Dominion and wil be until 1.1 comes out, I know atm and for the forseeable future MS's will not be dockable, and I accept this in a trade off with the advantages this ship will gain in Dominion 1.1
But seriously, the biggest arguement people seem to have about MS's not being able to dock is "docking games"? I mean thats about the weakest arguement for something I've heard in a long time. Locking times on these ships even with SB's isnt exactly instant you know. You'd have to foul up pretty bad to get yourself locked and blown up by a MS in low sec. And if you're in a partiularly big ship that it could lock, then may I suggest the age old tactic of an alt making an insta warp out spot.
It just bugs me that the best arguement that some can make against is the docking games one, it's just pure BS
let me illustrate to you. New sov mechanics requite to take station to take system. Imagine motherships that can dock. Any big alliance can field 10 of them.... they keep undocking repairing station killing some ships and redocking repairing for free (since station is owned by the alliance) undock repeat. With their ridiculous HP would be impossible to kill them before they redock. Result.. stations become 100% impossible to conquer.
Dockign for motherships... only if it was a 30 minutes operation where the ship was completely vulnerable...
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BlitZ Kotare
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Posted - 2009.12.25 22:07:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Spectre Wraith All hail Abathur.
Seriously though, great changes.
My $.02 -
The Hel probably needs *some* kind of MS bonus like the other Supercarriers get (Assault Carrier gets my vote for a name), and the speed one sounds very neat/interesting IMO.
No Supercarrier docking - not now, not ever. Keep it that way. However, the models should scale up a bit in relation to their updated mass? Making them harder to bump sounds like a good idea - HIC's can still tackle them normally just fine. I've always thought MS models were a bit puny for their capability, especially next to Titans . . .
No uberbuffs for fighters or bombers smartbomb/stealth bomber bomb wise. Thats the only counter to these fighters/bombers that opposing fleets are going to have, they're supposed to be somewhat fragile.
Thanks for fixing the Nag - at least it's on-grid with the rest of the Dreads again.
Final question - WHEN DOES IT GO LIVE?
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Arakidias
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.25 22:30:00 -
[424]
Originally by: Arra Lith Edited by: Arra Lith on 24/12/2009 09:06:01
Missile-based capital ship (Phoenix) really needs some serious overhaul. Or there will be only 3 dreads worth using.
Main disadvantage of missiles is delayed damage. Delayed damage means that missile-ship starts doing damage after ~ 20 seconds (depends on range to target) - thats usually 1 less volley than gunnery-ships. If enemy ship is killed by gunnery alpha than missile ships will always do 0 damage. On conventional ships this is compensated by two things. First is ability to adjust damage type (same as gunnery ships can adjust damage/range by switching ammo - projectiles can adjust both damage type dealt and range now). Second is that base missile damage is at least same as closest range gunnery ammo. Here is some comparision - proof:
1) Cruise missile launcher II vs 425mm Railgun II Cruise DMG = 300 / RoF = 17.6 Base DPS (unmodified by skills and ship bonuses) = 17.045
425mm Railgun + Antimatter L DMG = 48 * DmgMod = 3.3 / RoF = 9.563 Base DPS = 16.56
Cruise / 425mm ratio = 102.93% (almost 3 % higher base dps)
2) Siege torpedo II vs Neutron Blaster II Torpedo DMG = 450 / RoF = 14.4 Base DPS = 31.25
Neutron Blaster + Antimatter L DMG = 48 * DmgMod = 4.2 / RoF = 7.875 Base DPS = 25.6
Torpedo / Neutron ratio = 122.07% (almost 22 % higher base dps)
3) Heavy Missile II vs Railgun 250mm II HM DMG = 150 / RoF = 12 Base DPS = 12.5
Railgun 250mm + Antimatter M DMG = 24 * DmgMod = 3.3 / RoF = 6.375 Base DPS = 12.42
HM / Railgun = 100.6% (almost same base dps)
That is why missiles work at conventional ships, despite disadvantages (lower bonuses from skills / delayed damage) - they work especially well in PvE. Higher base DPS is KEY.
As for capital ships. Citadel missiles keep all their disadvantages but DO NOT KEEP THEIR ADVANTAGES !!!
Proof:
4) Citadel Cruise vs Dual 1000mm CC DMG = 1500 / RoF = 44 Base DPS = 34.09
Dual 1000mm + Antimatter XL DMG = 96 * DmgMod = 5.8 (new) / RoF = 14.345 Base DPS = 38.81
CitadelCruise / Rail1000mm ratio = 87.8 % (13% lower dps) Delayed damage = equal to first 2 missed volleys (30 seconds missile travel time)
5) Citadel Torpedo vs Ion Siege Blaster CT DMG = 2000 / RoF = 34 Base DPS = 58.82
Ion Siege + Antimatter XL DMG = 96 * DmgMod = 7.92 / RoF = 6.375 Base DPS = 119.26
Torpedo / Ion Siege ratio = 49.32 % (almost 2x lower dps) Delayed damage = equal to first 3 missed volleys (22.5 seconds missile travel time)
Phoenix can't switch damage dealt, like Raven (or Golem) - without losing its damage bonus. Phoenix deal much less DPS than other dreads with highest-damage ammo - making higher DPS as trade off for delayed damage no longer valid. Phoenix still deal delayed damage (thats always min 2 volley hits less than other dreads - 3 less with close range).
When you see those numbers at capitals - Im sure first though is - something is broken here ? Especially with close range weapons - torpedos dealing 2x less damage than Blasters AND Torpedos "missing" first 3 cycles (damage kicks in after blasters succesfully shoot 3 times) AND torpedos cant switch damage type (always kinetic or no bonus..). As for long-range weapons - difference is much less, but still - advantage of bigger damage as trade of for delayed damage is no longer exist at capital ships - and that hurts.
So welcome new era - Revelation & Moros (well and Naglfar too, since it get rid off that missile thingie). Phoenixes will be for funny suicidal stuff only...
QFT! With the previous changes the Phoenix atleast had the bonus of being able to lay down some damage if you pinned its target, or used it vs. structures. With the current ones you have almost no advantages vs. other dreads whatsoever.
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Cpt AngelNova
Amarr Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.25 22:39:00 -
[425]
Edited by: Cpt AngelNova on 25/12/2009 22:40:29
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Kalissa I own a mothership with has been in mothballs since Dominion and wil be until 1.1 comes out, I know atm and for the forseeable future MS's will not be dockable, and I accept this in a trade off with the advantages this ship will gain in Dominion 1.1
But seriously, the biggest arguement people seem to have about MS's not being able to dock is "docking games"? I mean thats about the weakest arguement for something I've heard in a long time. Locking times on these ships even with SB's isnt exactly instant you know. You'd have to foul up pretty bad to get yourself locked and blown up by a MS in low sec. And if you're in a partiularly big ship that it could lock, then may I suggest the age old tactic of an alt making an insta warp out spot.
It just bugs me that the best arguement that some can make against is the docking games one, it's just pure BS
let me illustrate to you. New sov mechanics requite to take station to take system. Imagine motherships that can dock. Any big alliance can field 10 of them.... they keep undocking repairing station killing some ships and redocking repairing for free (since station is owned by the alliance) undock repeat. With their ridiculous HP would be impossible to kill them before they redock. Result.. stations become 100% impossible to conquer.
Dockign for motherships... only if it was a 30 minutes operation where the ship was completely vulnerable...
and again we get back to the point made a few posts above (and quoted by me) give them a special docking time, lest for arguments sake make it 1 hour.... a mom can undock at any given moment even directly after a dock once scotty is ready, HOWEVER, the mother ship (after undocking)CANNOT redock unless 1 hour has passed. no docking games will be played under these conditions with a mothership aka Supercarrier, because (and even in lowsec) you will be screwed, so if you just undocked but wish to dock again you have to either log.. cloak at a safe spot or sit at a pos till you can dock again (ie. wait one hour).
Aggression timer should not affect this, it will be a pain if it keeps resetting to 1 hour in a fight, so simply change the docking timer for these ships. and if for some reason a mom pilot stays on the station right after undocking..... well.... X for mom gank !!
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Keria Nue
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Posted - 2009.12.25 22:51:00 -
[426]
For those of you who just complained about the whole, docking will allow them to play docking games in low sec, blah blah blah. Read my post again and then realize that docking in low sec is impossible by what I said.
Simple, YOU CAN ONLY DOCK IF THE STATION HAS A UPGRADE FOR IT.
- Mothership docking can only be done in a station that has the upgrade for it.
- Upgrade can only be put on a station that has Strategic Level 5. Same as JBs and what not.
- Mostherships have a limited docking capability. Can't undock/redock 1 hour after the prior action.
This right here takes care of docking games. Trust me when I say I hate them just as much as everyone else, but this would help with many things. And if the repairing a MS in station is an issue, fine, make it where it can't repair, just docking would be nice.
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Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.12.25 23:04:00 -
[427]
Edited by: Xing Fey on 25/12/2009 23:04:00 I'd agree to the previous post, but adding the restriction of only 1 SC docked per upgrades station, or something, to prevent mad proliferation...
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.25 23:40:00 -
[428]
Am against motherships docking for the reason that they are *super* caps and should require dedication to fly.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Ardetia
The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.26 00:06:00 -
[429]
+1 to carrier 5 -> supercarrier 1 +1 to fix shield tanks for the love of god +1 to great overall changes elsewhere
7.5km orbit for fighters and fighter bombers they will succumb to smartbombs and smaller ships faster than an eyeblink anyways some other fix might make them useful like suicide bombers! <- no thanks
The Flying Tigers are recruiting! |
Keria Nue
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Posted - 2009.12.26 00:09:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Sokratesz Am against motherships docking for the reason that they are *super* caps and should require dedication to fly.
One thing though, the amount of time to skill for it and the amount of ISK required to buy it should be dedication enough. To require a dedicated pilot to stay in it 23/7 is stupid. And, to add to this, they have hinted that the reason for the name change is because Suppercarriers are just that while Motherships are something expected to be more, and as such they want the name open for later when they might come out with something worthy of the name. So, let that be the one that can't undock when it comes out, and give this one the ability to dock.
And about one per station, while this may be an idea, I think it might be a little too extreme, maybe 5 per station? This way you limit the amount one alliance can pour out of a station but allows them to actually have more pilots flying Supercarriers.
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.26 00:17:00 -
[431]
The only reason I think Suppah-Carriers (yet again: please change the name, kthnxbai) should dock is to allow a pilot to quickly swap ships and enjoy some other aspects of the game than flying 4km long (yet again: please inrease the size of these things, kthnxbai) e-peen. Now, obviously to do that you do NOT need to dock them in a station. How about CCP agrees there is a problem with metagaming used to steal these things, as well as flawed game mechanics which offers no protection from theft when it comes to super caps? Change the mechanics of CSMA or introduce new mechanics (anchoring those ships was suggested as well as password protection) that let pilots get out of their ships with relative safety of their property. Also make it dependant on internal corporate trust (changes to role management at last maybe?) to keep the limitation on number of SCs. No docking games, no changes to SC population, no artificial $ grind for CCP (yeah, we all know that is the real reason, but hell ... docking games... right).
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ovenproofjet
Caldari The Few.
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Posted - 2009.12.26 00:43:00 -
[432]
ABATHUR IS FREEEE!!!!!! \o/
Kudos on beating Nozh into wherever he locked you up and pushing out these frankly F*CKING AWESOME changes
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.26 00:50:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Ardetia +1 to carrier 5 -> supercarrier 1
I'd absolutely agree with this, but as CCP Abathur said, the "genie is already out of the bottle." You can't really introduce a new skill requirement (or alter the skill requirement) for an item that already exists in-game. How would something like that be handled? If you own a Supercarrier, you get free skillpoints? Or you're suddenly ejected from your ship when you log in until you can train up the new pre-reqs to fly it? There's simply no graceful way to handle a change like that.
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Ardetia
The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.26 00:57:00 -
[434]
Edited by: Ardetia on 26/12/2009 00:57:52
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Ardetia +1 to carrier 5 -> supercarrier 1
I'd absolutely agree with this, but as CCP Abathur said, the "genie is already out of the bottle." You can't really introduce a new skill requirement (or alter the skill requirement) for an item that already exists in-game. How would something like that be handled? If you own a Supercarrier, you get free skillpoints? Or you're suddenly ejected from your ship when you log in until you can train up the new pre-reqs to fly it? There's simply no graceful way to handle a change like that.
you can, simple, those who sit in them better not leave, which they wont anyways? :P
as for the guy saying something about stealing etc. ive made threads about passwording supercaps before guess noone likes the idea that the most high-tech eletronic wonders of eve could have passwords +1 tldr passwords on supercaps.. give your password out or set it to '123' and you might as well be self destructing at least then you can leave the things (although making it potentially vulnerable)
IMPORTANT: +1 to make fighters more reliable when setting them to attack the mwd range compared to optimal range is laughable, most of the time they will sloooowly never actually get to their target(such as a BS with decent speed) yes, im exaggerating, but im fed up with it.. they're pilots right?
+1 to fix sideways warping
The Flying Tigers are recruiting! |
Saralle Zhukov
Minmatar Win Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.26 04:13:00 -
[435]
WB Abathur!!! Merry Christmas!! Nice to see the supercarrier coming again.
Hrmmm, I think you should let them dock with some kind of limitation to it. I agree with the model resize request. Please, give the Hel either the previously proposed Fighter Bomber damage bonus or Fighter Bomber speed bonus/Signature reduction bonus.
And to everyone a Happy New Year.
----------------------------------- Kill them all God will know his own. |
Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.26 04:56:00 -
[436]
No docking supercarriers please
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.26 09:16:00 -
[437]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 26/12/2009 09:18:08
Originally by: Keria Nue
Originally by: Sokratesz Am against motherships docking for the reason that they are *super* caps and should require dedication to fly.
One thing though, the amount of time to skill for it and the amount of ISK required to buy it should be dedication enough.
CCP initially thought no more than three titans would be in-game total because of the ISk cost..boy, did they find that out the hard way.
I think the dedicated character is just the right measure for it really, and besides, Abathur already said a few times that they will not be able to dock in the forseeable future.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Igor 77
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Posted - 2009.12.26 09:23:00 -
[438]
About FB's and SmartBombs, If a Large Smart does +350 damage every 10 seconds and a FB has 20k+resists HP then how long will you need to run that smart bomb before the FB really dies... Just to kill 20k HP (no resists) its 57 Runs, thats 9,5minutes in a row. Anybody seen 3-4 officer smarts on other ships than a titan? I think smarts are not an issue, Stealthbombers+bombs are.
Abathur: Whats the current DPS on FB's?
About docking: Let the SC's dock once a day (DT resets timer) to only alliance owned outposts. If it is wanted to tide a pilot to the ship make leave ship inside station impossible. I see docking more of a way to maintain the ship (fuel, drones, mods, ships etc etc.)
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.26 10:04:00 -
[439]
supercarrier skill = bad. many MS pilots have carrier 5, the addition of a new skill is stupid considering those pilots are already flying the ships. not to mention you're screwing the hundreds of pilots who have sitting alts without carrier 5.
if you want to introduce a new skill, it must give the ship bonuses, but not be a pre-requisite. you cant increase pre-requisites on a ship already ingame.
-rock
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mean candy
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.12.26 11:07:00 -
[440]
Edited by: mean candy on 26/12/2009 11:08:53 Edited by: mean candy on 26/12/2009 11:07:57
Originally by: Igor 77 About FB's and SmartBombs, If a Large Smart does +350 damage every 10 seconds and a FB has 20k+resists HP then how long will you need to run that smart bomb before the FB really dies... Just to kill 20k HP (no resists) its 57 Runs, thats 9,5minutes in a row. Anybody seen 3-4 officer smarts on other ships than a titan? I think smarts are not an issue, Stealthbombers+bombs are.
Again as many people wrote before, its not about 1 smartbomb (or 2..3..4) from ONE carrier but its about all the carriers sitting close together so the area of smartbomb-cover becomes a lot bigger.
$me likes orbiting sentry-FB. could even implement that you have to carry around their missiles with you in your hold, and they dock for reloading and undock on you automatically again and keep on firing.
besides can we have "reload and reengage" for all the non-crystal-guns as well plz edit: as well as for the missile-guys ofc
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Nemtar Nataal
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.12.26 12:02:00 -
[441]
Edited by: Nemtar Nataal on 26/12/2009 12:04:11
Originally by: RoCkEt X supercarrier skill = bad. many MS pilots have carrier 5, the addition of a new skill is stupid considering those pilots are already flying the ships. not to mention you're screwing the hundreds of pilots who have sitting alts without carrier 5.
if you want to introduce a new skill, it must give the ship bonuses, but not be a pre-requisite. you cant increase pre-requisites on a ship already ingame.
-rock
Totally do not agree here, MS and Titans are not suppose to be solo ships as such you need to really sacrofise something to get in them to justefy them as a whole - and with holding alts you are not really doing that.
I really miss a statement from CCP saying that MS and Titans was and are not suppose to be solo ships as such no bonuses for offence or defence can be added to the ship if the intention of the bonus is to make the ship more self sufficient.
MS was not suppose to be used as solo or low sec gang ships, and THIS is the problem with the current implementation of the MS - and it will not get bether with the Dominion 1.1 changes.
And no i do not think that people that pay 25+ bill for a ship should have more previliges and benefits then some one paying 100mill - they should have others/specials but not 25x bether then something with the price tag of 1bill like some one previously suggested.
on the subject of the Hel, i personally think it have the most awesome bonus of all of the MS's - the RR bonus makes it a real fleet ship where as all the other MS's are more minded on personal defence. Imo the other MS's shoud have there bonuses changed to reflect a fleet combat role rather then a personal defensive role like the Aeon and Wyvern have today.
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Mitsune Konno
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Posted - 2009.12.26 14:34:00 -
[442]
In regards to FB's SB teams dropping bombs on them/smartbombing; how about being able to "fit" compact citadel siege launchers on FB's (as planned) and also introducing compact citadel cruise launchers for FB's. Using your SC's fitting service, you drag and drop said mods on each fighter (or have some sort of presets), before deploying them. Once a torp launcher is added, its damage is increased, but orbit is reduced. If a cruise launcher is added, then its damage is reduced, but orbit is increased (maybe also an increase to orbit velocity, so it's more survivable).
Just a suggestion.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.26 16:45:00 -
[443]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 26/12/2009 16:47:32
Originally by: Nemtar Nataal on the subject of the Hel, i personally think it have the most awesome bonus of all of the MS's - the RR bonus makes it a real fleet ship where as all the other MS's are more minded on personal defence. Imo the other MS's shoud have there bonuses changed to reflect a fleet combat role rather then a personal defensive role like the Aeon and Wyvern have today.
Excuse me, but did U miss something? 1) The MS's is going to be transformed to ships for capital fights, an offensive role 2) They will loose their ability to fit Triage, hence loose defensive specialization 3) 25% as a maximum HP-transfer boost is not really as much as the smaller brother the Nidhoggur get with it's 25% + double effect in boost and half cycle time (400% effect) 4) Noone will use the Hel as a Logistics ship, and even if they do it will add MUCH less than a carrier in traige.
I would personally if I had a Hel (I'm concidering getting one if it wont suck to much compared to the other SC's) in a heartbeat trade the logistics bonus for only half of the bonus the Wyvern got. But that's not what I think it should have.
The Hel should get a bonus to Fighter Bombers torpedos explosion radius per level - hence hitting smaller/moving objects a little better. All other suggestions I've heard is pretty much what CCP said we might think of the present logistics bonus, and that's "MEH!"
EDIT: And yes, besides that the Fighter Bombers should be made as a XL Sentry drone in order to avoid them being useless in large fleetfights. Just make sure they don't make the SC's unmobilized by give this Sentry FB's a thruster so they either: 1) Always orbit the SC, and also fire orbiting (imagine the awesome graphical effect) 2) Or give it a "Return to ship" engine, and perhaps also an "Follow" command option. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.26 17:01:00 -
[444]
i quickly worked out that at 3k per torp damage- x20 bombers = 60,000damage. over 15 seconds ROF (what the bombers ROF used to be at least) = 4000 dps. taking into account the skill lvl, @ 20% per fighter bomber level, lvl 5 would be 8000dps. Thats my assumption. seems fine if so. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.26 20:11:00 -
[445]
WTB Sisi patch
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Joabinanias
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Posted - 2009.12.26 20:17:00 -
[446]
Edited by: Joabinanias on 26/12/2009 20:18:09
Originally by: Sokratesz
You're gonna want 1 or 2 BCU's to get a decent DPS out of your torps, and wtb volunteers to fly carriers with the sole purpose of providing cap for a titan.
I hear ya about the cap reps, and I agree, but we will face the same issue with just having carriers there with triage or regular reps to keep us alive because we can't rep ourselves (not a fan of it though, I want to see a self-rep bonus). I look at it that as long as they're there and repping us already, have them fit an extra cap rep and it shouldn't be too big of an issue.
And I agree with the other poster, doing a little less damage but getting a lot of extra tank on a titan will be more beneficial imho.
I'm just saying, it's a fit that gives the option of having that big buffer...wether that's the pilots preference or not is up to the individual
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.26 20:41:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Nemtar Nataal
I really miss a statement from CCP saying that MS and Titans was and are not suppose to be solo ships.
Dunno how you worked out that holdings alt dosent need investment, one of my other chars who is a fully skilled MS pilot sits on the same account and does not train (i have a non-cap functioning alt that is training). its EXACTLY the same thing, except it took more time to train. that was a very ignorant statement my friend.
furthermore - approx time to get to *carrier lvl 3 and board a MS = 130 days. *carrier lvl 5 and a hypothetical SC skill to lvl 1 = add about 55 days. (185 days)
i.e. theres jack all difference. all you'd be changing is that it takes another 2 months to do. your point is completely invalid. all this would change is it'd make people ****ed off.
and as for the problem you linked, thats not just with MS's, its hotdropping. which happens anyway. carriers do the same every day.
as i said before, increasing the pre-reqs of a ship already ingame is F*cking stupid. as for MS being 25x as good as a carrier, well. 10 carriers would kill a MS easy if they had 2-3 HIC's with them. when i last spoke with you, you werent an MS pilot; assuming that hasnt changed - you've no idea of the investments/sacrifice/planning that goes into becoming a supercap pilot whilst not being part of a huge 0.0 alliance.
-rock
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Arzal
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.27 00:24:00 -
[448]
Oh, forgot to say thanks for the changes <3 arbathur
but please make the models slightly bigger, thats all. They are not far off normal carrier models, and I think the Archon is longer then my Aeon... though not totally sure.
just 1 more question, hadn't seen it here yet, but what are the stats of the fighter bombers at the moment? the pre "nerf" values? (aka the original values)
cheers again sel
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row
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Posted - 2009.12.27 04:43:00 -
[449]
I too would like the models bigger. Please while you guys/gals are at it, work on this one as well
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Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.27 17:51:00 -
[450]
+1 for bigger models +1 for NO docking - i'm very happy to dedicate a character (+ a backup) to fly a ship like that - like Sok said - it takes dedication to fly.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 19:21:00 -
[451]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 27/12/2009 19:22:16
Docking Supercaps - No. If this ever happens it would likely be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade and would only be allowed in player built outposts in 0.0. This would also need to be done in tandem with changes in docking / aggression mechanics. Even then, don't take this as any commitment that it may ever be allowed.
DD in lo sec - There are no plans to allow this for 1.1.
Naglfar- There are no further changes planned for 1.1. It's not getting a third turret and it's not going to lose its missile hardpoints.
Self-repair bonuses on supercaps - Not going to happen for 1.1 and possibly ever. The HP buff is intended to improve these ship's survivability and make them viable combatants on the modern EVE capital battlefield. Scaling their self-repair capabilities along with the HP boost would just make them more capable of solo-work which is not desired. Fielding a supercap should require some planning and teamwork.
Size of Supercarriers - Not changing for 1.1 but I'm going to talk some more about this to Art because e-peens should look like e-peens.
Fighter Bomber damage - with max skills, 20 Fighter Bombers will do 8000 DPS; 10000 DPS with the Nyx.
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Litel Gril
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.27 19:53:00 -
[452]
Edited by: Litel Gril on 27/12/2009 19:53:31
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 27/12/2009 19:22:16
Docking Supercaps - No. If this ever happens it would likely be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade and would only be allowed in player built outposts in 0.0. This would also need to be done in tandem with changes in docking / aggression mechanics. Even then, don't take this as any commitment that it may ever be allowed.
DD in lo sec - There are no plans to allow this for 1.1.
Naglfar- There are no further changes planned for 1.1. It's not getting a third turret and it's not going to lose its missile hardpoints.
Self-repair bonuses on supercaps - Not going to happen for 1.1 and possibly ever. The HP buff is intended to improve these ship's survivability and make them viable combatants on the modern EVE capital battlefield. Scaling their self-repair capabilities along with the HP boost would just make them more capable of solo-work which is not desired. Fielding a supercap should require some planning and teamwork.
Size of Supercarriers - Not changing for 1.1 but I'm going to talk some more about this to Art because e-peens should look like e-peens.
Fighter Bomber damage - with max skills, 20 Fighter Bombers will do 8000 DPS; 10000 DPS with the Nyx.
you're starting to sound like nozh moms should be able to do at least 15k dps dd's should allso be alowed in low sec
seriously.. you even said on fanfest that you made the new DD SO IT CAN BE USED IN LOW SEC... dont take your words back and feed us with crap like 'There are no plans to allow this for 1.1'... i know you guys support carebears but this is something that should be alowed from the day 1 of dominion.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.27 20:32:00 -
[453]
Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 27/12/2009 20:31:58 A titan can do around 15k dps DD/officer mods included, a MS does not need to do 15k DPS.
I am glad you guys will be looking at the size, that is pretty much my only remaining problem after(if) these changes go live
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 20:40:00 -
[454]
A Summary of the change to Motherships I and more with me like to see.
1) Make the Motherships to Flagships instead of Supercarriers. - That means make them a ship for the battlefield with the role to be a Leadership booster as well as a Capital Killer with the new Fighter Bombers. - Introduce some kind of Capital Warfare Link and increased bonus to Link bonuses (Like 5% per level instead of 3% as Command Ship has) - This also means that you remove the triage ability, logistics bonuses and the Clone Vat Bay so that logistics is the special role for the smaller regular carriers.
Suggestion in detail here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=61#1820 (with a tl;dr version for the lazy in part III)
2) Make the Hel racial bonus to be Fighter Bombers torpedos explosion radius. Since the logistics role is to be abandoned with the removal of triage possibility. It's pure stupid to keep the old bonus to this ships and U had the best option I've heard in the end at SiSi before U turned U'r back to this ships before Dominion.
3) Make the Fighter Bombers to an XL Sentry Drone - This is to avoid them being useless in large fleetbattles, where this ships should be most usefull. - They to need a thruster so they doesn't immobilize the "Flagship" and this should be solved by either: a) making them always orbit, and fire torpedos orbiting b) give them "return to ship" engine, and perhaps a "follow" command
4) Increase Jump Range as planned - Either to 4.5 ly so JDC5 Flagships can tag along with JDC4 Dreads - Or to same as Dreads since Carriers after all jumps longer in base - The choice should be made after how much larger U concider this ships to be, since larger ships should jump shorter. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.27 20:56:00 -
[455]
Uh they are increasing the jump range to that of a dread already.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 20:59:00 -
[456]
Originally by: ByFstugan 1) Make the Motherships to Flagships instead of Supercarriers.
'Flagships' sounds like an entirely new class of ship, not something we're going to modify from an existing class.
Originally by: ByFstugan 3) Make the Fighter Bombers to an XL Sentry Drone
While deployable turrets is an interesting idea, we're not going to change something that looks like a Fighter Bomber into a "Sentry Drone".
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.27 21:04:00 -
[457]
Any plans on increasing the fuel bay? Since it can now jump farther?
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 21:11:00 -
[458]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: ByFstugan 1) Make the Motherships to Flagships instead of Supercarriers.
'Flagships' sounds like an entirely new class of ship, not something we're going to modify from an existing class.
Not really. MS's as well as carriers already have bonuses for Warfare Links. This is just an extra boost to that.
The label Flagship was just a suggestion to add attention to that boost in the same old role. The name is mainly suggested since many of us don't really think supercarrier is a very cool name ;p
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: ByFstugan 3) Make the Fighter Bombers to an XL Sentry Drone
While deployable turrets is an interesting idea, we're not going to change something that looks like a Fighter Bomber into a "Sentry Drone".
It's not turrets though. The FB's is still supposed to be firing torpedos on all races, but they will remain at the MS/SC side and fire long-range torpedos instead.
The look doesn't need to change since the suggestion only changed them from orbiting the MS/SC instead of the target, and firing their torpedos from long range instead of short.
This is a suggestion lifted since Bobby Atlas earlier in this thread pointed out that SC's will be not work in large fleetbattles with the FB's as they are - since thet will die horribly fast on enemy carrier-blob with all smartbombs. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.27 21:14:00 -
[459]
You obviously didn't use fighterbombers on Sisi at all. There are several ways you can get around even groups of ships with smartbombs with ease.
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team Forbidden Domain
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Posted - 2009.12.27 21:24:00 -
[460]
Changes look great.
Only 1 question, What kind of time frame are we looking at for this? Early Jan? Late Jan? Feb? Late Summer? 21 Dec 2012?
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Cash McGee
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Posted - 2009.12.27 21:29:00 -
[461]
Edited by: Cash McGee on 27/12/2009 21:31:32
Originally by: Reptzo Changes look great.
Only 1 question, What kind of time frame are we looking at for this? Early Jan? Late Jan? Feb? Late Summer? 21 Dec 2012?
this
You're doing a great job abathur, and thanks for looking deeper into getting the ship sizes increased.
Edit: Also, question for you abathur.
I know this is likely never to happen but would there ever be a chance of getting capital mwds??
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John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.27 21:56:00 -
[462]
Originally by: John Zorg There is something else that needs fixing on the Super Carriers. The bay sizes.
If you go look at the fuel bay / CHA of the Titans vs. Super Carriers there is something very wrong there.
The Titan has a fuel bay of 60,000 m3 vs. the 5,000 m3 of the Super Carrier. I then thought, ok... but the Super carrier would have a larger CHA that the Titan. This isn't even correct. A Titan has a CHA of 100,000 m3 vs. the Super Carriers 50,000 m3.
Isn't something wrong there?
The other thing to possibly look at is the part bonuses of the Triage that you are now planning to remove from Super Carriers. Would it not be worth making the remote rep bonus passive? Not the local rep as it would make the SC kinda overpowered?
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.27 22:16:00 -
[463]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 27/12/2009 22:16:21
Originally by: NedFromAssembly You obviously didn't use fighterbombers on Sisi at all. There are several ways you can get around even groups of ships with smartbombs with ease.
true some1 with at least half a brain can keep his fighters safe than why shouldnt he be able to keep his fighter bombers from harms way ? :) i remember on sisi i havent lost a single fighter bomber whatsoever when i was using my nyx and i think they are well balanced when it comes to orbit range
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
xttz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.27 22:24:00 -
[464]
Originally by: John Zorg There is something else that needs fixing on the Super Carriers. The bay sizes.
If you go look at the fuel bay / CHA of the Titans vs. Super Carriers there is something very wrong there.
The Titan has a fuel bay of 60,000 m3 vs. the 5,000 m3 of the Super Carrier. I then thought, ok... but the Super carrier would have a larger CHA that the Titan. This isn't even correct. A Titan has a CHA of 100,000 m3 vs. the Super Carriers 50,000 m3.
Isn't something wrong there?
No. 1) Titans require stront for activating their jump portal module. Depending on skills this ranges rom 750m3 to 1500m3 for each 1 minute activation. 2) Titans use additional isotopes to bridge other vessels, based on mass. 3) Titans use further isotopes to fire their doomsday. Each activation of that is 7,500m3 in isotopes.
Motherships on the other hand only need fuel to jump around, and even with JFC 4 can hold enough isotopes between the fuel bay and CHA to travel over 600 light years between refuels.
Originally by: John Zorg The other thing to possibly look at is the part bonuses of the Triage that you are now planning to remove from Super Carriers. Would it not be worth making the remote rep bonus passive? Not the local rep as it would make the SC kinda overpowered?
Additional bonuses to remote repair on motherships would be very dangerous. Abathur already mentioned how they don't want supercaps being able to roam in small numbers again. By increasing the remote repair ability of a ewar-immune ship AND giving it the same effective hp of a starbase AND allowing it to disengage at will without the commitment triage requires... that makes a very dangerous ship. In fact it wouldn't shock me to see motherships lose their transfer bonuses once they become sufficiently proliferated. Gangs of them above a certain size will be extremely difficult to kill.
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team Forbidden Domain
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Posted - 2009.12.27 22:25:00 -
[465]
Edited by: Reptzo on 27/12/2009 22:25:30
Originally by: John Zorg
Originally by: John Zorg There is something else that needs fixing on the Super Carriers. The bay sizes.
If you go look at the fuel bay / CHA of the Titans vs. Super Carriers there is something very wrong there.
The Titan has a fuel bay of 60,000 m3 vs. the 5,000 m3 of the Super Carrier. I then thought, ok... but the Super carrier would have a larger CHA that the Titan. This isn't even correct. A Titan has a CHA of 100,000 m3 vs. the Super Carriers 50,000 m3.
Isn't something wrong there?
The other thing to possibly look at is the part bonuses of the Triage that you are now planning to remove from Super Carriers. Would it not be worth making the remote rep bonus passive? Not the local rep as it would make the SC kinda overpowered?
I am curious what you think is wrong here? the super carrier may need a slightly larger fuel bay, considering the new longer jump range, but the numbers look fine. Reason the titan has such a large fuel bay is not just for itself, but for the jump bridge. The titan may need a larger corp hanger, but that would likely simply be "exploited". Though, personally, if you can afford a titan, you could afford 20 jump freighters, which would hold a lot more.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 23:16:00 -
[466]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: John Zorg Fuel Bay questions.
No. 1) Titans require stront for activating their jump portal module. Depending on skills this ranges rom 750m3 to 1500m3 for each 1 minute activation. 2) Titans use additional isotopes to bridge other vessels, based on mass. 3) Titans use further isotopes to fire their doomsday. Each activation of that is 7,500m3 in isotopes.
Motherships on the other hand only need fuel to jump around, and even with JFC 4 can hold enough isotopes between the fuel bay and CHA to travel over 600 light years between refuels.
^^ Pretty much this.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 23:27:00 -
[467]
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 27/12/2009 22:16:21
Originally by: NedFromAssembly You obviously didn't use fighterbombers on Sisi at all. There are several ways you can get around even groups of ships with smartbombs with ease.
true some1 with at least half a brain can keep his fighters safe than why shouldnt he be able to keep his fighter bombers from harms way ? :) i remember on sisi i havent lost a single fighter bomber whatsoever when i was using my nyx and i think they are well balanced when it comes to orbit range
And this U ofcourse tested with 100-150 capitals and about almost half was Carriers with smartbombs running? On SiSi? Incredible.
If not U'r words are out of context since that would be the obvious counter when Fighter Bombers are among our blobs of capitals. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.27 23:37:00 -
[468]
Sure did. Sorry to see you were unable to figure out basic drone usage skills.
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CWevers
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 00:23:00 -
[469]
Can we get an ETA on all of this lovelyness?
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.28 00:43:00 -
[470]
http://killboard.atlas-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=133635 - another happy customer :)
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.12.28 01:03:00 -
[471]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: ByFstugan 1) Make the Motherships to Flagships instead of Supercarriers.
'Flagships' sounds like an entirely new class of ship, not something we're going to modify from an existing class.
Originally by: ByFstugan 3) Make the Fighter Bombers to an XL Sentry Drone
While deployable turrets is an interesting idea, we're not going to change something that looks like a Fighter Bomber into a "Sentry Drone".
Regardless of what happens with fighter bombers, fighter sized sentry drones is an idea that is definitely worth pursuing. Such an addition to the game would be brilliant. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Gallente Citizen 345632
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Posted - 2009.12.28 01:10:00 -
[472]
Abathur do you have any idea if the new Capital Jump effect is going to be released any time soon?
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.28 01:15:00 -
[473]
Thanks for the lovely update Abathur. With the size of models out of the way (another big thanks for saying you will talk with the art guys - wonderful news) only two issues for me: - the name supercarrier... will we have to just deal with it or is there some area for discussion on this topic? - the old cyno effect - same story as above, will it come back?
After reading the flagship suggestion I've been also wondering about the specific... 'winsauce' in SC. Obviously there are the fighter bombers which are absolutely awesome and will give the ship a decent and well deserved role. But capitals in general have a unique flavor, eah a different one - dreads have siege, carriers do triage, titans do DD and bridge, Rorq goes industrial. The SC being with those changes the second beast in the food chain after the titan has fighter bombers as a unique bit. But that is a bit... well little. It is a lot, as now the DPS dished out is monstrous compared to other ships (still less than two dreads tho). What I think SC needs is exaxtly some kind of unique feature which would make it into essential part of major capital fleet, not just an optional bit that you need to take good care of (as it is not meant to be solo ship - rightfully so). Please - spare your rage if you don't agree, as I am merely sharing my doubt ;)
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shoeless JoeJackson
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Posted - 2009.12.28 01:52:00 -
[474]
Abathur, can you take a minute and re-evaluate fighter bombers inability to shoot control towers? Before people freak out and chirp "supercarriers aren't designed for pos bashing",consider this:
1: control towers in a properly defended and upgraded system are in no danger from fb's. 2: Control towers in unclaimed/undefended space contribute to the "afk alliances" that were slated for extinction. They deserve to die. 3:Dreads can still be used, but there would be no cookie cutter attack to prepare for.Let every ship class attack them for true variety and suprise.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.28 02:26:00 -
[475]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Fighter Bomber damage - with max skills, 20 Fighter Bombers will do 8000 DPS; 10000 DPS with the Nyx.
-That's a pretty serious reduction from (your) initial values. Any chance DCUs are going to be made useful/effective to counteract this?
-What exp velocity/rad should we be expecting to see?
-Please keep a very keen eye on issues with FB survivability. I still think there is zero reason at this point to not bump orbit up to 8km. navy emp SBs should not be hitting orbitting FBs
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shoeless JoeJackson
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Posted - 2009.12.28 03:35:00 -
[476]
Originally by: LoveKebab http://killboard.atlas-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=133635 - another happy customer :)
He had an old cap regen/active tank fit. What's your point? If he fit for it he could have easily survived 2 dd's.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 03:40:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Gallente Citizen 345632 Abathur do you have any idea if the new Capital Jump effect is going to be released any time soon?
The last word on that was that the new jump effect would be released with a gaggle of other revised effects. No specific ETA (sorry).
Originally by: Kersh Marelor - the name supercarrier... will we have to just deal with it or is there some area for discussion on this topic?
It's set in stone.
Originally by: Kersh Marelor After reading the flagship suggestion I've been also wondering about the specific... 'winsauce' in SC. Obviously there are the fighter bombers which are absolutely awesome and will give the ship a decent and well deserved role. But capitals in general have a unique flavor, eah a different one - dreads have siege, carriers do triage, titans do DD and bridge, Rorq goes industrial. The SC being with those changes the second beast in the food chain after the titan has fighter bombers as a unique bit. But that is a bit... well little. It is a lot, as now the DPS dished out is monstrous compared to other ships (still less than two dreads tho). What I think SC needs is exaxtly some kind of unique feature which would make it into essential part of major capital fleet, not just an optional bit that you need to take good care of (as it is not meant to be solo ship - rightfully so). Please - spare your rage if you don't agree, as I am merely sharing my doubt ;)
The Fighter Bombers that Supercarriers launch can deal approximately 2x the damage of a dread with max skills. This damage is unaffected by the tracking penalties imposed by the XL turrets on Titans or the Siege Module on Dreads and the torpedoes that Fighter Bombers launch have a much higher explosion velocity than their capital-launched counterparts. So while the damage is 'only' 2x the damage of a dread, they are much more effective against moving capital ship targets.
This damage does not require siege mode and is directed by an awesome looking, ECM-immune beast with millions of EHP. It can't dock but, hey, neither could Darth Vader's flagship.
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Fighter Bomber damage - with max skills, 20 Fighter Bombers will do 8000 DPS; 10000 DPS with the Nyx.
-That's a pretty serious reduction from (your) initial values. Any chance DCUs are going to be made useful/effective to counteract this?
The initial values were 9600 DPS (12000 Nyx).
Each DCU fit will continue to allow one more Fighter or Fighter Bomber to be controlled.
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev What exp velocity/rad should we be expecting to see?
The current Compact Citadel Torps have an Exp Velocity of 60m/sec.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 03:49:00 -
[478]
Edited by: Kraken Kill on 28/12/2009 03:50:27 It looks real good.
I guess main issues remaining really are the Hel's new bonus and a way for the hole created when in a shield bonused gang to be filled. Cant shields just be added like with armor? Also the Slaves issue for armor with shield tankers having no implant set which really works with their tank.
The Hel could have a good resistance bonus to their drones/fighters/bombers like before, i suppose thats ok.
The projected ECM needs a bit of a change, the timer to reuse it again is pretty huge but the effects are pretty small for a much needed highslot. If the cooldown timer could be reduced a lot it would be pretty useful maybe. What about making the Fighterbombers orbit at 8km? Also will they be at all effective against POSs from outside of the forcefield, and what about the concerns from the lag the torpedo spam was causing? |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 04:36:00 -
[479]
Again...
Make the Hel racial bonus to be Fighter Bombers torpedos explosion radius. Since the logistics role is to be abandoned with the removal of triage possibility. It's pure stupid to keep the old bonus to this ships and U had the best option I've heard in the end at SiSi before U turned U'r back to this ships before Dominion.
This way they hit moving targets better than others and gets it's bonus where it should be instead of where it most definetly not in any possible way should even be remotely concidered to be put, i.e it's old bonus blows monkey butt after removing triage. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
LordSlay Them
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 06:57:00 -
[480]
The real beauty here is that we all posted 900 questions and concerns, but bottom line none of our issues are really being addressed this is more hey the patch is done the way CCP wants it we will let you guess at the changes and occasionally tease you with some stats.
The people who pay the salaries of these game producers are telling you there is still a problem. CCP likes numbers i would draw pictures but the forums are limited, ok:
So moms post patch will still be at least 14 billion isk with your best mate building it for you.
Carriers under a bil, dreads 1.5 bil max?
You have established "SC" will do 2x the dmg of a dread with max skills... Ok so it should have really cool stuff like jump portals, or clone vats or some kind of extra battlefield perk?
nope, wont be able to triage, its dps is handicaped by its ability to go poof (seriously your going to tell me its got the EHP of a t2 thorax... these are supposed to cost 30-40 mil? and be all the dps of a 14 billion isk ship??
So no perks other than it does not have to siege, so that makes it worth about 3 to 3.5 billion in my math skills so far... But wait its got millions of EHP? So they are to be DPS sponge? Why would the bad guys shoot a Supercarrier when it obviously cant hurt their hostile cap fleet... Still at 3.5 maybe 4 bill just for the shiney EHP.
So 4 bil, ah the ECM Burst, lol, so a group of moms could be really annoying to a hostile cap fleet snipin yours because you and your mates could take turns jamming them, hope its a 10 hour battle because the cooldown is worse than the damn DD and im pretty sure the DD at least does dmg confirm that please?
So 4.25 bil with the lol burst... Expanded jump range i guess you could fuel pos's with it but rorq's are way cheaper and more cargo room so im not going to add value for that...
You dont want it to be a solo operator, you make it unable to deal damage in a capital engagement becuz bombers and smart bombs will eat your fighters. Oh and btw they can't heal others very well at all so thats out the window... So yea they are going to be solo gank ships becuz they will only be able to manage a couple targets at once. Not a capital fleet by any means...
You tell us you are giving this ship an intended role, please tell me in what fantasy Island of floating mountains and blue people 15 ft tall this ship would be useful in? I dont want any more stats, I want an honest answer of CCP's "role" for a ship taking all the modern day battlefield situations into account what purpose this 14 bil serves, becuz im still seeing 4.25 billion worth of ship.
Please do not take this as a rant, this is a real ingame perspective of what is going to happen if you release this ship as you see it now. Sig Image removed. The link is broken. Zymurgist
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.12.28 07:42:00 -
[481]
Edited by: Dursun Idris on 28/12/2009 07:42:55
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Naglfar- There are no further changes planned for 1.1. It's not getting a third turret and it's not going to lose its missile hardpoints.
Please reconsider this again... There are lots of good ideas to do without adding the third turret, %50 to %75 marauder bonus will do just fine, again. Terrible amount of skillpoints involed in naglfar's weapon systems comparing with other dreads, adding an extra month with torpedos, yet adding another with cruises now, and 4 more months to perfect those skills. And the dread is no better than others in any way...
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Zeneth Darkblieght
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.28 08:13:00 -
[482]
Edited by: Zeneth Darkblieght on 28/12/2009 08:13:24 When do we get to see the changes? :D
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Joabinanias
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Posted - 2009.12.28 09:02:00 -
[483]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: ByFstugan 1) Make the Motherships to Flagships instead of Supercarriers.
'Flagships' sounds like an entirely new class of ship, not something we're going to modify from an existing class.
Forget the name, the main idea from flagships was simply a boost to the command modules of super carriers. Is that something that can be considered?
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.12.28 09:58:00 -
[484]
Thanks for getting on this Sel, although I'm starting to believe that CCP Nozh doesn't actually exist, more along the lines of the bad news to the players Forum account. But anyway a couple questions,
- Any idea on when we'll be seeing this deployed to SiSi? - Is this still being developed and tweaked? I don't want to repeat october/september if CCP's already made up their mind on things. - Will the current mirror on SiSi be used or will there be a fresh one? - Would be nice to be able to lose a few during testing, not to mention any Titan Blobs in the FFA, so will Moms be seeded again? - What is different from 1.1 SC than the pre-Nozh SC? They seem the same so why was the deployment held back?
Thanks again for getting back to us,
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 10:59:00 -
[485]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: ByFstugan 3) Make the Fighter Bombers to an XL Sentry Drone
While deployable turrets is an interesting idea, we're not going to change something that looks like a Fighter Bomber into a "Sentry Drone".
It's not turrets though. The FB's is still supposed to be firing torpedos on all races, but they will remain at the MS/SC side and fire long-range torpedos instead.
The look doesn't need to change since the suggestion only changed them from orbiting the MS/SC instead of the target, and firing their torpedos from long range instead of short.
This is a suggestion lifted since Bobby Atlas earlier in this thread pointed out that SC's will be not work in large fleetbattles with the FB's as they are - since thet will die horribly fast on enemy carrier-blob with all smartbombs.
I really can't let this go to easy, since it seems as my suggestion was misunderstood in about them having to be standing still as regular Sentry Drones. Perhaps the name is badly choosen, let's forget the mentioning of "Sentry" and imagine a new way they would function instead.
Imagine a couple of Supercarriers exit their warp, soon after they landed they all launch their angry swarm of Fighter Bombers - targets are locked - soon after 20 orbiting FB's around each of the supercarriers start to launch long range torpedos towards their target.
Now that gotta be an graphical joy with all affects on. It also makes this ship get a special appearance on the battlefield when they got their special swarm around them as they attack and even when they move. Perhaps would be extra cool if they orbited in a circle formation when they are shooting (so the SC can't be hit) ^^
This would make the Fighter Bombers work in large fleetbattles (150-200 capitals) where the amount of smartbombs are somewhere between high to really high in the blobs of capitals that kinda always is gathered in one spot. The only one the Supercarriers could really attack are those that got bumped away or are in the outer parts of the blob.
It would however not make Fighter Bombers close to unkillable. Besides all supportship that could pop them we have the real nemesis in the now so popular Stealth Bomber bombing squads, and U don't need to miss them entering grid with many seconds to loose a bunch or maybe all of your Fighter Bombers. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Aequitas Veritas
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 11:17:00 -
[486]
Titans
Are you still happy with the damage output these ships have on the battlefield using capital guns? Still dont see many using guns.
If youre happy wiht the damage, any chance of reducing the number of guns to 3 and increasing the damage bonus to 200% so one can run warfare links at the same time. This will be more important if in the future gang bonuses will only apply on field...
Are as stated in the dev blog, are more Titan specific weapons being developed?
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 11:49:00 -
[487]
Edited by: Julio Torres on 28/12/2009 11:56:22 Is there any plans to make Titans useful again? The layers with DD penalties is too silly
30sec immobility: This one serves no purpose anymore. It should have been added years ago when there was a AOE DD.
10minute Jump restriction after DD: This is still a fair restriction.
10minute Cloaking penalty after DD: Still haven't been a engagement where titan hang around on the grind, duking it out with the rest of the capital ships. The new titan is a gank-machine. Having to warp around for 10min after a DD, forces the titans to remain nano-fitted and pulls them further away from the intention of sticking around on the battlefield (not that we would anyway, with a 10min refire on the DD).
Oh, and regarding the guns.. We won't be fitting any damage mods to speed up our ROF. Nor will any Tracking Enhancers/Computers be used to boost our range. Sofar, the only reason for us to use them, is to pop a wreck after a Cynogen gank. At 50-60km range, my Giga Beams cant hit a moving carrier when my own ship is moving. I can't believe you would nerf a whole line of weapons just for the sake of a Titan instant popping a battleship. When the right thing would have been to make Super-XL guns which would have had all the benefits of the missing weapons related bonuses.
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D1MW1T
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Posted - 2009.12.28 12:09:00 -
[488]
I know Titan Pilots won't like this but I'm gonna post it anyway.
Titans need to be required to commit. Bridges, NanoFits, and Drivebys will currently be their only use. Add a restriction to hold them on the grid, timer should be debated but 249km drivebys will be the staple titan in the future without forcing them to be committed to the fight.
The DD is ridiculous now, eve's never had an alpha shot weapon on this level before, the current combat mechanics have no counter to it, other than lose a ship and hope someone can grab the titan before it's offgrid. Granted the addition of this in terms of capital combat is good in breaking up RR circles, and adding some variance to the fight.
But the Titan shouldn't be the ultimate sniper, it should be commited to the field and used as such.
Granted this is just my opinion but it seems to me this would be more inline with eve as a whole. Nanotitan headshoting just doesn't seem to fit with what the proposed vision Dominion was supposed to be.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.28 12:09:00 -
[489]
Originally by: shoeless JoeJackson
Originally by: LoveKebab http://killboard.atlas-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=133635 - another happy customer :)
He had an old cap regen/active tank fit. What's your point? If he fit for it he could have easily survived 2 dd's.
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Luna Negra
FinFleet IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 12:12:00 -
[490]
Edited by: Luna Negra on 28/12/2009 12:12:36
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: ByFstugan 1) Make the Motherships to Flagships instead of Supercarriers.
'Flagships' sounds like an entirely new class of ship, not something we're going to modify from an existing class.
- A Capital Command Ship -
Keep the name SuperCarrier by all means put still on this subject i would like you to consider giving SC's even same bonuses as there is for Command Ships to make the SC a capital sized command ships. It's very hard to jump a regular CS with a large cap fleet to get proper bonuses applied. This change would make the FC to want SC's as Wing/Fleet commanders and would definitely make training of command mods needed for SC pilots. Also it gives SC that special very needed role in cap fleet that is not yet filled.
IMO remote repair bonuses could be removed in a trade to Command Ship like bonuses.
-Luna - Mom pilot since 2008. _________________________ Gravity you win again! |
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Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 12:19:00 -
[491]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: shoeless JoeJackson
Originally by: LoveKebab http://killboard.atlas-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=133635 - another happy customer :)
He had an old cap regen/active tank fit. What's your point? If he fit for it he could have easily survived 2 dd's.
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
Wouldn't have made any difference. I was ready to jump in and fire off the 3rd DD if necessary.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.12.28 12:20:00 -
[492]
Originally by: LoveKebab
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
although I agree with your goal of pointing out that MS Pilots got the shaft with Dominion. Even with the HP Boost, until things settledown post dominion 1.1 even, MS pilots shouldn't be taking dumb risks. I don't know anything about this particular killmail you linked other than what can be discerned from the mail.
Also remember that sisi has a long history of not being what ends up on TQ. We've seen this for 6 years now, and although the CCP Nozh incident was a heart attack to most Mom pilots, nothing was ever promised. We simply allowed ourselves to believe that with the amount of testing the Dominion Changes that they were a shoe in for the expansion.
The real question that should be asked is why is it that CCP halted the Mothership deployment when a month later we are recieving exactly what was proposed on SiSi originally.
The only thing I see that may or may not be different is the Explosion Radius on FighterBombers, otherwise this is what we had in October.
Ergo, (yes I really wanted to use that for once. :P) why were the changes withheld if they were just going to be deploying them anyway?
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Zeneth Darkblieght
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.28 13:10:00 -
[493]
Originally by: McFly
Originally by: LoveKebab
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
although I agree with your goal of pointing out that MS Pilots got the shaft with Dominion. Even with the HP Boost, until things settledown post dominion 1.1 even, MS pilots shouldn't be taking dumb risks. I don't know anything about this particular killmail you linked other than what can be discerned from the mail.
Also remember that sisi has a long history of not being what ends up on TQ. We've seen this for 6 years now, and although the CCP Nozh incident was a heart attack to most Mom pilots, nothing was ever promised. We simply allowed ourselves to believe that with the amount of testing the Dominion Changes that they were a shoe in for the expansion.
The real question that should be asked is why is it that CCP halted the Mothership deployment when a month later we are recieving exactly what was proposed on SiSi originally.
The only thing I see that may or may not be different is the Explosion Radius on FighterBombers, otherwise this is what we had in October.
Ergo, (yes I really wanted to use that for once. :P) why were the changes withheld if they were just going to be deploying them anyway?
Nothing like making Hype to sell more accounts :)
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.28 13:45:00 -
[494]
Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 28/12/2009 13:48:24
Originally by: Julio Torres
Wouldn't have made any difference. I was ready to jump in and fire off the 3rd DD if necessary.
You can easily tank a wyvern to survive 4-6 DD's as it stands right now. Mine takes 5 to kill at the moment.
Originally by: LoveKebab
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
I would imagine it was a lot of office politics possibly combined with them actually looking at the people shouting down the MS changes and finding they are the same people who have never so much as encountered a capital ship in eve :)
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.28 13:56:00 -
[495]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 28/12/2009 13:56:16
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 28/12/2009 13:48:24
Originally by: Julio Torres
Wouldn't have made any difference. I was ready to jump in and fire off the 3rd DD if necessary.
You can easily tank a wyvern to survive 4-6 DD's as it stands right now. Mine takes 5 to kill at the moment.
u think u would be able to overload ur 3 invul fields and 4 racial hardeners in time ? :) it takes like 5 sec to lock ms and 15 sec for dd to hit - activation of each hardener on a wyvern is like 20sec :)
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: LoveKebab
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
I would imagine it was a lot of office politics possibly combined with them actually looking at the people shouting down the MS changes and finding they are the same people who have never so much as encountered a capital ship in eve :)
aye, that's true :( giving every1 skills at lvl5 and watching how it gonna roll was a bad idea cuz at that point ppl who never seen a capital ship in this game (just like said XD) had a voice in shaping the supercaps changes :(
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 14:02:00 -
[496]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: LoveKebab
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
I would imagine it was a lot of office politics possibly combined with them actually looking at the people shouting down the MS changes and finding they are the same people who have never so much as encountered a capital ship in eve :)
aye, that's true :( giving every1 skills at lvl5 and watching how it gonna roll was a bad idea cuz at that point ppl who never seen a capital ship in this game (just like said XD) had a voice in shaping the supercaps changes :(
^^ That is probably one of the biggest mistakes CCP did on SiSi. Alot of Mom/Titan haters, got to test it and give the "unbiased feedback" about how overpowered they was.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.28 14:05:00 -
[497]
Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 28/12/2009 14:06:23
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 28/12/2009 13:56:16
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 28/12/2009 13:48:24
Originally by: Julio Torres
Wouldn't have made any difference. I was ready to jump in and fire off the 3rd DD if necessary.
You can easily tank a wyvern to survive 4-6 DD's as it stands right now. Mine takes 5 to kill at the moment.
u think u would be able to overload ur 3 invul fields and 4 racial hardeners in time ? :) it takes like 5 sec to lock ms and 15 sec for dd to hit - activation of each hardener on a wyvern is like 20sec :)
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: LoveKebab
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
I would imagine it was a lot of office politics possibly combined with them actually looking at the people shouting down the MS changes and finding they are the same people who have never so much as encountered a capital ship in eve :)
aye, that's true :( giving every1 skills at lvl5 and watching how it gonna roll was a bad idea cuz at that point ppl who never seen a capital ship in this game (just like said XD) had a voice in shaping the supercaps changes :(
Oh that isn't overheated, hold on I am opening EFT and checking what it is with heat. I dont factor in heat into EFT when figuring tanks because it's just for burst. But yes you can overheat 7 hardeners in 15 seconds pretty easily(There is a button specifically for this ****)
Wow, it's 8 with heat. The ninth kills it
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shoeless JoeJackson
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Posted - 2009.12.28 16:10:00 -
[498]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: shoeless JoeJackson
Originally by: LoveKebab http://killboard.atlas-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=133635 - another happy customer :)
He had an old cap regen/active tank fit. What's your point? If he fit for it he could have easily survived 2 dd's.
my point was that if he would have a hp buff promised like a month ago he would survive and ppl would use motherships even without fighter bombers for now :)
My point is that he can tank several atm yet did not adjust his fit accordingly. What's to say that he would change it with the new buff? He might have died to their dd+ guns with the same fit, even with the buffs. In the end, he had the means to survive it but did nothing to promote his own survival. Whataya gonna do?
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.12.28 16:44:00 -
[499]
Originally by: Julio Torres
^^ That is probably one of the biggest mistakes CCP did on SiSi. Alot of Mom/Titan haters, got to test it and give the "unbiased feedback" about how overpowered they was.
Have to agree with you there, definitely a lot of people made up their opinion off of that weekend. Supercaps are so easy to 'test' and decide on when you get all V's and 20 of each to play with...
Although it was kinda funny seeing all the empty moms/titans floating outside the main FD- Station. Guess that whole not being able to dock/refit whenever you like thing wasn't so much fun after all...
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.28 16:44:00 -
[500]
Quote: =CCP Abathur]The Fighter Bombers that Supercarriers launch can deal approximately 2x the damage of a dread with max skills. This damage is unaffected by the tracking penalties imposed by the XL turrets on Titans or the Siege Module on Dreads and the torpedoes that Fighter Bombers launch have a much higher explosion velocity than their capital-launched counterparts. So while the damage is 'only' 2x the damage of a dread, they are much more effective against moving capital ship targets.
Yes, but a dread's damage source can't be completely wiped out by a few smartbombing carriers/BS or a few bombs, causing a few hundred mill in damage in the process and requiring F/Bs at 7500m3 a pop to be hauled out to whatever pos the mom goes back to.
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
-That's a pretty serious reduction from (your) initial values. Any chance DCUs are going to be made useful/effective to counteract this?
The initial values were 9600 DPS (12000 Nyx).
And the new values are significantly lower than this.
Quote: Each DCU fit will continue to allow one more Fighter or Fighter Bomber to be controlled.
Meaning they aren't going to be made useful/effective. We both know no one is going to sacrifice a high slot for 5% more damage. One would need to use up 4 (!!!) of their 6 high slots to get to the damage output you originally proposed.
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Van Feneal
Minmatar Blackwater USA Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.28 16:46:00 -
[501]
Dear CCP!
Having to be one of the oldest MS pilots around I have also suffered the longest in the MS. It cost me over 30B isk back then, god knows the first months in the MS was fun and very usable, since then it has been a downhill and nerf and counting ALL the stars in every starsystem alliance brought me to. I want to give my input on the Hel and the bonuses.
Given that hel and minnie in general are known for less tank and more damage, at least the idea CCP planted in my head since I started in 2003, If the HEL still does not have a usable tank as compared to the other Motherships the Hel should get a very decent and good bonus to damage on bombers AND fighters AND drones.
Second if I am going to take more ISK loss on my mothership invesment it would be a good idea for pilots having been in a MS for long period of time to give us a gift to compensate some of the loss we have taken due to neglect. So at the end of the day make my HEL usable in LARGE cap fleets and indestructable to NOT large enough BS fleets or smaller.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.28 18:05:00 -
[502]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 28/12/2009 18:05:53
Originally by: Van Feneal Given that hel and minnie in general are known for less tank and more damage, at least the idea CCP planted in my head since I started in 2003, If the HEL still does not have a usable tank as compared to the other Motherships the Hel should get a very decent and good bonus to damage on bombers AND fighters AND drones.
so you want it to have the nyx's bonus, but better. That makes no sense. And minnie aren't about "less tank, more damage" they are about "less tank, more speed"
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Nemtar Nataal
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.12.28 18:14:00 -
[503]
Originally by: RoCkEt X Edited by: RoCkEt X on 26/12/2009 20:49:58
Originally by: Nemtar Nataal
I really miss a statement from CCP saying that MS and Titans was and are not suppose to be solo ships.
Dunno how you worked out that holdings alt dosent need investment, one of my other chars who is a fully skilled MS pilot sits on the same account and does not train (i have a non-cap functioning alt that is training). its EXACTLY the same thing, except it took more time to train. that was a very ignorant statement my friend.
furthermore - approx time to get to *carrier lvl 3 and board a MS = 130 days. *carrier lvl 5 and a hypothetical SC skill to lvl 1 = add about 55 days. (185 days)
i.e. theres jack all difference. all you'd be changing is that it takes another 2 months to do. your point is completely invalid. all this would change is it'd make people ****ed off.
and as for the problem you linked, thats not just with MS's, its hotdropping. which happens anyway. carriers do the same every day.
as i said before, increasing the pre-reqs of a ship already ingame is F*cking stupid. as for MS being 25x as good as a carrier, well. 10 carriers would kill a MS easy if they had 2-3 HIC's with them. when i last spoke with you, you werent an MS pilot; assuming that hasnt changed - you've no idea of the investments/sacrifice/planning that goes into becoming a supercap pilot whilst not being part of a huge 0.0 alliance.
plz gtfo, you're clearly clueless and i cba to write an essay.
-rock
Times change m8 :) all though i dont have the balls to fly the dnm thing, anyway at the current state its only sitting on my holding alt and i dont feel like im sacrofising anything really to have the ship.
Anyway trying to rephrase my self from my last post (and hopefully doing a bether job this time).
The MS should get bonuses that just makes it a solo pown ship. With the EHP buff its getting it would be much cooler having a logistical bonus that compensated for the lack of Triage and maybe even replace local tanking so the best use of a MS would be in a fleet of many.
In a way there is no reason to go into triage with a MS cause its already invulnable to Ewar, and i would personally much rather have a logistical bonus that added to the ships fleet potential bundled with some kind of offensive bonus.
On the subject of a offensive Hel bonus wouldnt it be more in line with Minmatar race to have a ROF bonus rather then a explosive velocity bonus. I know with drones a ROF bonus is basically the same as a damage bonus however the damage is bieng applied slightly diffrent.
On the subject of none MS not having a clue about changes and sacrifices to fly a MS i cant agree with you here, cairfull colaboration between the people in the ship and the people on the other end of the ships firepower is required to reatch a compromise that ensures the ship wount just be another nerf boat waiting to happen.
And ohh yes i think some one already sayed it but the remote ECM needs a bit of work with the MS's, just like bombs the remote ECM needs a bit of time to settle into a level where its practical and normal standard to fit and use it and it doesnt look like that level have been reatched yet, so CCP a little tweek to RoF, range of remote ECM or something that makes it a little more worth while would appriciated.
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Ykatni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.28 20:06:00 -
[504]
Edited by: Ykatni on 28/12/2009 20:08:58
Why not just allow Motherships and Titan to dock once every 24 hours, as long as it doesn't have an aggression timer within that time frame? It would remove the station games and allow a high sp pilot into space to participate in something outside of being an alt?
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 21:01:00 -
[505]
this thread is getting rather full with non-MS pilots who want to make a ship they dont own into something they want everyone else to play.
What is an MS? Its an Ewar Invuln Carrier, with more drones, more HP. costs 15b. What is a Super Carrier? Its an Ewar Invuln Carrier with more drones, even more HP and even more Firepower and increased jumprange over the MS. costs 12b.
why are people complaining? I dont want to fly a flag ship, i want to fly a im gonna eatyourface ship. The titan is more of a flag ship over the mothership/supercarrier. Make a new class of ship for that.
The cost is about 12b with the clone vat changes. thats the cost, the ship will have millions and millions of EHP, 4-5b as some suggested for this is silly, go play hello kitty. It would mean id own 4 of them, spares for when i lolzkamikazi one of them to gank a JF.
The bombers do 8k dps, right now a mothership max skills does 2k dps. whats your problem? The bombers have a 60ms explo radius which is almost as fast as a full speed Trimarked dread. The explo radius is 1750m3 which is smaller than all carriers/freighters and im expecting smaller than dreads as they are getting a sig radius increase or rebalance in line with other capitals.
So we have 8k dps which hits for full damage on our intended target. drone control units are terrible, dont fit them on motherships.
Dont buy the ship if you dont like what it does. The Hels bonus- The hel has the weakest tank due to low resists generally and the lowest base hitpoints on its main tank. It also has no implant set that can boost the tank capabilites. Fighter+fighter bomber damage on the nyx is a massive bonus, and the aeon will have the best tank in the game with all the HP and resistances- with the wyvern having the 2nd best tank in game with the massive shield resistances and 8 mid slots. I wonder if having a 5% figher/bomber mwd speed and durability bonus per level would be posible? id think it surely balances tbh against the other massive damage and tanking bonuses and anything is better than 25% more repped on a max of 1 shield and 1 armor rep in the highs. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.28 21:21:00 -
[506]
Originally by: Kraken Kill this thread is getting rather full with non-MS pilots who want to make a ship they dont own into something they want everyone else to play.
What is an MS? Its an Ewar Invuln Carrier, with more drones, more HP. costs 15b. What is a Super Carrier? Its an Ewar Invuln Carrier with more drones, even more HP and even more Firepower and increased jumprange over the MS. costs 12b.
why are people complaining? I dont want to fly a flag ship, i want to fly a im gonna eatyourface ship. The titan is more of a flag ship over the mothership/supercarrier. Make a new class of ship for that.
The cost is about 12b with the clone vat changes. thats the cost, the ship will have millions and millions of EHP, 4-5b as some suggested for this is silly, go play hello kitty. It would mean id own 4 of them, spares for when i lolzkamikazi one of them to gank a JF.
The bombers do 8k dps, right now a mothership max skills does 2k dps. whats your problem? The bombers have a 60ms explo radius which is almost as fast as a full speed Trimarked dread. The explo radius is 1750m3 which is smaller than all carriers/freighters and im expecting smaller than dreads as they are getting a sig radius increase or rebalance in line with other capitals.
So we have 8k dps which hits for full damage on our intended target. drone control units are terrible, dont fit them on motherships.
Dont buy the ship if you dont like what it does. The Hels bonus- The hel has the weakest tank due to low resists generally and the lowest base hitpoints on its main tank. It also has no implant set that can boost the tank capabilites. Fighter+fighter bomber damage on the nyx is a massive bonus, and the aeon will have the best tank in the game with all the HP and resistances- with the wyvern having the 2nd best tank in game with the massive shield resistances and 8 mid slots. I wonder if having a 5% figher/bomber mwd speed and durability bonus per level would be posible? id think it surely balances tbh against the other massive damage and tanking bonuses and anything is better than 25% more repped on a max of 1 shield and 1 armor rep in the highs.
**** pubbies you have me agreeing with Kraken Kill. If you dont own a MS, have never owned a MS, please dont try and make it into your own personal project to **** everyone that does. Thanks in advance.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.28 21:38:00 -
[507]
For those who have missed it, the HP buff is on sisi, nothing else about it seems to be yet.
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Trick Novalight
Caldari Instapop Industries Amici Noctis
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Posted - 2009.12.28 22:14:00 -
[508]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Kersh Marelor After reading the flagship suggestion I've been also wondering about the specific... 'winsauce' in SC. Obviously there are the fighter bombers which are absolutely awesome and will give the ship a decent and well deserved role. But capitals in general have a unique flavor, eah a different one - dreads have siege, carriers do triage, titans do DD and bridge, Rorq goes industrial. The SC being with those changes the second beast in the food chain after the titan has fighter bombers as a unique bit. But that is a bit... well little. It is a lot, as now the DPS dished out is monstrous compared to other ships (still less than two dreads tho). What I think SC needs is exaxtly some kind of unique feature which would make it into essential part of major capital fleet, not just an optional bit that you need to take good care of (as it is not meant to be solo ship - rightfully so). Please - spare your rage if you don't agree, as I am merely sharing my doubt ;)
The Fighter Bombers that Supercarriers launch can deal approximately 2x the damage of a dread with max skills. This damage is unaffected by the tracking penalties imposed by the XL turrets on Titans or the Siege Module on Dreads and the torpedoes that Fighter Bombers launch have a much higher explosion velocity than their capital-launched counterparts. So while the damage is 'only' 2x the damage of a dread, they are much more effective against moving capital ship targets.
This damage does not require siege mode and is directed by an awesome looking, ECM-immune beast with millions of EHP. It can't dock but, hey, neither could Darth Vader's flagship.
Is there a possibility that we'll ever see a capital ship that's designed for taking out smaller ships? It seems to me every capital+ class ship is designed for the sole purpose of POS and Cap warfare. What I'm suggesting is a Cap flack ship, something that can sit in with the dreds and carriers that are in siege/triage mode unable move and help pick off support ships.
Most naval vessels have smaller gun platforms to help pick off smaller ships and aircraft. I don't understand why this sort of thing has been left out.
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Deva Blackfire
Cry Me a River INC
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Posted - 2009.12.28 22:46:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Trick Novalight
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Kersh Marelor After reading the flagship suggestion I've been also wondering about the specific... 'winsauce' in SC. Obviously there are the fighter bombers which are absolutely awesome and will give the ship a decent and well deserved role. But capitals in general have a unique flavor, eah a different one - dreads have siege, carriers do triage, titans do DD and bridge, Rorq goes industrial. The SC being with those changes the second beast in the food chain after the titan has fighter bombers as a unique bit. But that is a bit... well little. It is a lot, as now the DPS dished out is monstrous compared to other ships (still less than two dreads tho). What I think SC needs is exaxtly some kind of unique feature which would make it into essential part of major capital fleet, not just an optional bit that you need to take good care of (as it is not meant to be solo ship - rightfully so). Please - spare your rage if you don't agree, as I am merely sharing my doubt ;)
The Fighter Bombers that Supercarriers launch can deal approximately 2x the damage of a dread with max skills. This damage is unaffected by the tracking penalties imposed by the XL turrets on Titans or the Siege Module on Dreads and the torpedoes that Fighter Bombers launch have a much higher explosion velocity than their capital-launched counterparts. So while the damage is 'only' 2x the damage of a dread, they are much more effective against moving capital ship targets.
This damage does not require siege mode and is directed by an awesome looking, ECM-immune beast with millions of EHP. It can't dock but, hey, neither could Darth Vader's flagship.
Is there a possibility that we'll ever see a capital ship that's designed for taking out smaller ships? It seems to me every capital+ class ship is designed for the sole purpose of POS and Cap warfare. What I'm suggesting is a Cap flack ship, something that can sit in with the dreds and carriers that are in siege/triage mode unable move and help pick off support ships.
Most naval vessels have smaller gun platforms to help pick off smaller ships and aircraft. I don't understand why this sort of thing has been left out.
While it is logical ship type to have it would hurt gameplay a LOT. Having capital ship only blobs is already quite ******ed. And the ship you want would totally obsolete any sub-cap ship except for cyno ships. Plus carriers already fend off smaller ships very good. Try to use t2 sentries or small drones sometimes.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 00:24:00 -
[510]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly For those who have missed it, the HP buff is on sisi, nothing else about it seems to be yet.
All changes in the OP should now be on SiSi. If something didn't make it or there are market seeding issues, etc... please bring it to our attention.
More replies later.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.29 00:31:00 -
[511]
Well the fighter bomber skill may be seeded in FD- but it's sure not seeded everywhere. Nor are fighter bombers themselves.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 00:41:00 -
[512]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 29/12/2009 00:44:39
Originally by: Kraken Kill POST 503
Originally by: NedFromAssembly POST 504
Since U (Mainly Kraken) mentioned my suggestion about a flagship and most likelly know I don't fly a MS yet I feel like I'd like to respond here. Especially since U (and others) seems to wanna make a point into that only those who owns them got right to have any opinions on them - and the solution should be to not buy what we don't want.
I can myself buy about three fitted motherships if I wanted, and I would have got at least one long time ago if I thought it was worth it. But since they where not I've put my isk elsewhere for now. When there now comes a long overdue change to this ships that I will get one or perhaps two of - I feel like I also like to have suggestions here. I'm sorry if that upset some people that already own a MS. But I also wanna own a large e-peen that I like - so I do have an opinion.
I'd like to point out that eventhough U fly a MS yourself U seem to have a bad understanding of the numbers here, hence we can conclude that flying a MS doesn't make U an expert on them. Suprise suprise since U seemed to think that only owning them gives right to think and know stuffz about them.
The MS's cost today (in ME1, not including packing/refining-costs or logistics) is about 8,8-10,1 Billions to build in minerals, and costs roughly 15B on "market" today (that number is the only one correct). After the removal of Clone Vat Bay that prices will reduce with about 1,2B each and end in a mineralcost of 7,6-8,9B. What the price's will be after Dominion 1.1 and the EHP-buff we don't know, but from what I heard some MS's went for 21B when that word got out of the EHP-buff - and I predict that your suggestion of 12B will be FAR from the price most people will pay for this ships for a long long time. More likelly the price will raise to 16-19B for a while, and maybe stabilize around 14B later on. We'll se post-Dominion 1.1 about that.
If U don't wanna fly something labeled "Flagship" that's totally ok, but perhaps U should read and understand the suggestion before U think it's something U don't wanna fly. In short that suggestion is very similar to the Supercarriers we see on the board - with the difference it would loose all logistics bonuses and get extra leadership bonuses instead. It's nothing less eatyourface at all - perhaps the other way around since U can get more gang-bonuses with them in gang (more EHP can't make them weaker I'd guess?). The suggestion wasn't mostly about the name, but to a new role as a Capital Command ship with sharp teeths.
I agree with you that the Drone Control Units are terrible, they should give 2 extra drones per level on SC's imo. Also the Hel bonus as U say need change, I've stated my suggestion earlier so I skip that now. But I'd like to point out to CCP that it will be really unfair to the Hel pilots to not change that bonus together with the removal of the Triage module that was the only thing that could spice it up.
Perhaps critique and ideas can come without telling people to shut up or calling them names - wouldn't that be an intresting experiment :) _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.29 00:48:00 -
[513]
Shut up, go post a CSM thread
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.29 00:50:00 -
[514]
Originally by: CCP Abathur This damage does not require siege mode and is directed by an awesome looking, ECM-immune beast with millions of EHP. It can't dock but, hey, neither could Darth Vader's flagship.
The amount of damage is great as I said, the fact of not being in siege and still being e-war immune is great too. Comparing it to The Executor... well, Super Star Destroyer looks waaay cooler than Aeon for example, which is just half finished Bestower of immense proportions (still smaller than Vader's ride tho). That's one thing. Second is that The Executor was exactly what you said - a flagship, a centre of the fleet. Can you really see supercarriers in that position? They will be awesome and powerfull, but do they have the uniqueness like the Titans or Triage Carriers? Also: - any patch-timeline we can get?
Originally by: Trick Novalight Most naval vessels have smaller gun platforms to help pick off smaller ships and aircraft. I don't understand why this sort of thing has been left out.
Deva Blackfire gave you pretty good indight into the game mechanics of that. However, your point still stands - there is a great imbalance between small ships and capitals at the moment. To quote (inaccureately tho) my alliance mate: we live in a virtual world where USS Enterprise could be engaged by Somali pirates in a dinghy boat and the supercarrier could do nothing about it. That may be exagerration but truth is capitals are very vulnerable. On one hand that is good, as it ensures they are fleet ships and not solopwnmobiles. But the fragility of caps is somehow exagerrated. Reasons for that are quite obvious to me - CCP wants to ensure young players are not enraged by being killed by some 4-6 year old char. In economical sense more new players is better than few old.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 01:37:00 -
[515]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 29/12/2009 01:38:56
Originally by: Wikipedia A flagship is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, a designation given on account of being either the largest, fastest, newest, most heavily armed or, for publicity purposes, the best known. In military terms, it is a ship used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships. The term originates from the custom of the commanding officer (usually, but not always, a flag officer) to fly a distinguishing flag.
Used in this way, "flagship" is fundamentally a temporary designation; the flagship is wherever the admiral's flag is being flown. However, admirals have always needed additional facilities; a meeting room large enough to hold all the captains of the fleet, and a place for the admiral's staff to make plans and draw up orders.
To me when using the term Flagship (as someone else came up with before me) I didn't really think that had to be the largest ship - as several here seems to do. So I looked it up and quoted it above here from wikipedia - and it seems that's not the only possible choice. It seems that a flagship can be many things besides largest: - Fastest - Newest - Most heavy armored - Or simply best known
Usally this ships carried a flag, which in war has been a morale-booster - and the ship also contained the commander of the fleet. And that's pretty much the most precise definition - it held the "Fleet Commander" in EVE-terminology. I really can't see why a Capital Command Ship couldn't have that label just because there are Titans that are larger. Unless the above statement is wrong and the correct is "there is only one flagship and it's the biggest ship there is" or something.
U got me to think that the name-suggestion was stupid - however it's not it seems. I mean - even the mentioned Darth Vaders Flagship is much smaller than their "Titan", the Death Star.
However - the name was not the important issue erlier - but to make the Supercarriers get some extra Leadership-related bonus(es) and remove all logistics-crap.
EDIT: To read about the suggestion: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=61#1820 (there's a tl;dr version at PART III) _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.29 01:42:00 -
[516]
Originally by: ByFstugan If U don't wanna fly something labeled "Flagship" that's totally ok, but perhaps U should read and understand the suggestion before U think it's something U don't wanna fly. In short that suggestion is very similar to the Supercarriers we see on the board - with the difference it would loose all logistics bonuses and get extra leadership bonuses instead. It's nothing less eatyourface at all - perhaps the other way around since U can get more gang-bonuses with them in gang (more EHP can't make them weaker I'd guess?). The suggestion wasn't mostly about the name, but to a new role as a Capital Command ship with sharp teeths.
Personally, I believe a capital command ship would be awesome, especially one that gives slightly better bonuses than a current command ship. But, carriers already have their role. They are, primarily, Fighter platforms. They're the only ships that can utilize these unique drones, which can add significant DPS without needing the carrier even to be on grid.
Originally by: ByFstugan I agree with you that the Drone Control Units are terrible, they should give 2 extra drones per level on SC's imo.
Agreed. DCUs, as they are, are only useful to POS-huggers.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.12.29 01:57:00 -
[517]
Originally by: ByFstugan Edited by: ByFstugan on 29/12/2009 01:38:56
Originally by: Wikipedia A flagship is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, a designation given on account of being either the largest, fastest, newest, most heavily armed or, for publicity purposes, the best known. In military terms, it is a ship used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships. The term originates from the custom of the commanding officer (usually, but not always, a flag officer) to fly a distinguishing flag.
Used in this way, "flagship" is fundamentally a temporary designation; the flagship is wherever the admiral's flag is being flown. However, admirals have always needed additional facilities; a meeting room large enough to hold all the captains of the fleet, and a place for the admiral's staff to make plans and draw up orders.
To me when using the term Flagship (as someone else came up with before me) I didn't really think that had to be the largest ship - as several here seems to do. So I looked it up and quoted it above here from wikipedia - and it seems that's not the only possible choice. It seems that a flagship can be many things besides largest: - Fastest - Newest - Most heavy armored - Or simply best known
Usally this ships carried a flag, which in war has been a morale-booster - and the ship also contained the commander of the fleet. And that's pretty much the most precise definition - it held the "Fleet Commander" in EVE-terminology. I really can't see why a Capital Command Ship couldn't have that label just because there are Titans that are larger. Unless the above statement is wrong and the correct is "there is only one flagship and it's the biggest ship there is" or something.
U got me to think that the name-suggestion was stupid - however it's not it seems. I mean - even the mentioned Darth Vaders Flagship is much smaller than their "Titan", the Death Star.
However - the name was not the important issue erlier - but to make the Supercarriers get some extra Leadership-related bonus(es) and remove all logistics-crap.
EDIT: To read about the suggestion: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=61#1820 (there's a tl;dr version at PART III)
Titans are already essentially flagships in theory, since they have the ability to fit the gang mods, have the fleet bonus per level and are the biggest and generally most heavily armed ships in the fleet.
While i do agree that a capital command ship would be awesome, i think a little more thought needs to go into the idea, we already have several ships that can fit the warfare link modules, so maybe we need to come up with a few different warfare link designs to introduce more flavour to the role before we worry about more leadership platforms?
A big capital command ship would be cool, but one with a unique function and role would be even better right? The Light in the Darkness
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.29 02:30:00 -
[518]
Originally by: ByFstugan
I agree with you that the Drone Control Units are terrible, they should give 2 extra drones per level on SC's imo. Also the Hel bonus as U say need change, I've stated my suggestion earlier so I skip that now. But I'd like to point out to CCP that it will be really unfair to the Hel pilots to not change that bonus together with the removal of the Triage module that was the only thing that could spice it up.
I agree they are terrible, I disagree with how this should be solved. 2 extra drones per level could cause issues with carrier dps and also causes issues with fighter bombers and drone bay sizes. The only (good) way to make DCUs useful is drop the whole increasing # of drones controlled and simply go with increased damage and HP. This will scale properly between carriers and motherships (thus not causing issues with gank thanatos dps), won't increase lag and will make fighters/FBs more survivable all in one shot.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 03:50:00 -
[519]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: ByFstugan
I agree with you that the Drone Control Units are terrible, they should give 2 extra drones per level on SC's imo. Also the Hel bonus as U say need change, I've stated my suggestion earlier so I skip that now. But I'd like to point out to CCP that it will be really unfair to the Hel pilots to not change that bonus together with the removal of the Triage module that was the only thing that could spice it up.
I agree they are terrible, I disagree with how this should be solved. 2 extra drones per level could cause issues with carrier dps and also causes issues with fighter bombers and drone bay sizes. The only (good) way to make DCUs useful is drop the whole increasing # of drones controlled and simply go with increased damage and HP. This will scale properly between carriers and motherships (thus not causing issues with gank thanatos dps), won't increase lag and will make fighters/FBs more survivable all in one shot.
Works as good in my book ^^ _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 04:26:00 -
[520]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: ByFstugan If U don't wanna fly something labeled "Flagship" that's totally ok, but perhaps U should read and understand the suggestion before U think it's something U don't wanna fly. In short that suggestion is very similar to the Supercarriers we see on the board - with the difference it would loose all logistics bonuses and get extra leadership bonuses instead. It's nothing less eatyourface at all - perhaps the other way around since U can get more gang-bonuses with them in gang (more EHP can't make them weaker I'd guess?). The suggestion wasn't mostly about the name, but to a new role as a Capital Command ship with sharp teeths.
Personally, I believe a capital command ship would be awesome, especially one that gives slightly better bonuses than a current command ship. But, carriers already have their role. They are, primarily, Fighter platforms. They're the only ships that can utilize these unique drones, which can add significant DPS without needing the carrier even to be on grid.
Originally by: SolarKnight Titans are already essentially flagships in theory, since they have the ability to fit the gang mods, have the fleet bonus per level and are the biggest and generally most heavily armed ships in the fleet.
While i do agree that a capital command ship would be awesome, i think a little more thought needs to go into the idea, we already have several ships that can fit the warfare link modules, so maybe we need to come up with a few different warfare link designs to introduce more flavour to the role before we worry about more leadership platforms?
A big capital command ship would be cool, but one with a unique function and role would be even better right?
I have a bunch of suggestions that I either took from others posting about this before me, or some I added myself. I dunno how many that has accually read my suggestion on the link, but I cut out the part essential to this discussion - how would the bonuses look if the Supercarriers was made a Capital Command Ship?
Suggestions so fars:
The Gang bonuses could be applied in different or several ways of below mentioned:
- Same as in Command Ships, but higher boost (probably 5%) per level on the active modules.
- An new Capital Boost modul that give all bonuses as the regular gang bonuses does in it's type (armor, shield, skirmish, EW). For example the Capital Armor module would give both armor resist, capacitor reduction to armor repair/transfers and also increase the speed of this repairs/transfers.
- An new Capital Boost modul with some new gangbonus given from this capital gangbonus module. Dunno what really :)
- An similar (or same) bonus as Titans got that's passive and don't require modules.
- An bonus that increases the effectivnes of active bonuses depending on position in fleet. For example normal bonus as squad commander, stronger as wing commander and max as fleet commander.
Feel free to add suggestion to what could make a suitable bonus for a Capital Command Ship.
To read about the Flagship suggestion in whole: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=61#1820 (there's a tl;dr version at PART III) _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 08:07:00 -
[521]
Just 2 questions. 1. Why the leviathan for comperable DPS with turret titans (even after the 125% bonus implementation) has to use 7 highslots and not fit a bridge module? 2. Any ETA for fixing the shield gang bonuses? Since as you suggested not to fit a capital shield booster on my titan you also suggesting to wait 2 hours after every session change to get the 37.5% of my shield up? ________________________________________________
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.29 09:29:00 -
[522]
changes are on sisi but FB's and skillbook arent seeded...
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Odda
Gallente Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 11:06:00 -
[523]
No figtherbombers on SISI...
ANd what is the timeline on this changes making it to TQ`?
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Firedance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 11:38:00 -
[524]
Do you have any intentions of fixing the Remote ECM Burst?
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.29 11:45:00 -
[525]
Originally by: Firedance Do you have any intentions of fixing the Remote ECM Burst?
Whats wrong with remote ECM burst?
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Zeneth Darkblieght
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.29 13:07:00 -
[526]
Edited by: Zeneth Darkblieght on 29/12/2009 13:07:51
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Firedance Do you have any intentions of fixing the Remote ECM Burst?
Whats wrong with remote ECM burst?
The remote ECM Burst has a chance of working... which it heardly ever does. Imagine if the Doomsday had a "chance" of working...
EDIT: CCP, please fix the Tranquility to Sisi patch. The file cannot be found. Would like to test the changes...
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Geanos
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Posted - 2009.12.29 13:27:00 -
[527]
Edited by: Geanos on 29/12/2009 13:32:09 Moros needs more drone control range. Otherwise you should balance only short range weapons (blasters) taking drones into account. For long range weapons, drone damage is non-existent past 57-60 km and should not be taken into account when balancing cap rails (long range, doh). I mean, why have 500 DPS less past 60 km with long range setup? Use math or EFT dps graph and notice the steap decrease in DPS @ 60km. Oh and please don't tell me to use 'Drone Link Augmentator' modules.
But probably the best and easiest way to balance the Moros would be to just INCREASE THE DRONE CONTROL RANGE or MAKE THE BONUS TO WORK ON DRONE CONTROL RANGE ALSO. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.29 13:34:00 -
[528]
Originally by: Zeneth Darkblieght Edited by: Zeneth Darkblieght on 29/12/2009 13:07:51
Originally by: NedFromAssembly
Originally by: Firedance Do you have any intentions of fixing the Remote ECM Burst?
Whats wrong with remote ECM burst?
The remote ECM Burst has a chance of working... which it heardly ever does. Imagine if the Doomsday had a "chance" of working...
EDIT: CCP, please fix the Tranquility to Sisi patch. The file cannot be found. Would like to test the changes...
A 25 strength multispec fails most the time for you? Really? It seems to work fine for me.
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Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises Crimson Steel Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.29 15:19:00 -
[529]
I've wanted to throw M2CW in - for I did have some considerable support for the 'smaller' SC and allowing it to dock (even be built in stations like its smaller sibling)
I support most of the changes - personally I'd like to see it keep the Clone Vat Bay, but that really needs to work properly before it would be viable (one-way clone jump is not useful at all and is a very poor mechanic).
What I will suggest, however (flame suit on), is that the cost to build is indeed halved - the SuperCarrier (and there's nothing 'super' about it - it's only a Tier 3 Carrier) - and it is allowed to dock (all existing Mom's are doubled the first time they dock so that pre-change built ones are completely compensated) - simple.
Why? Becaue Dominion brings possibilities for new alliances and no real way to implement them. Allow them to build (still) expensive Super Carriers in the same place as other Carriers. And then just add the ability to Jump Bridge (in fact I'd remove this from Titans). Then smaller entities have a way to get out to 0.0, although at a genuinely significant cost.
Titans & Dreads do the combat - Carriers do support. Leave most of the other changes, they're fine. Don't change the BPO cost
In the future - re-introduce the 'Mothership' as a comparable (or perhaps half price) Titan equivalent - the second Super capital.
As an aside - I'd strongly suggest never using 'super', just like 'Future' - all government departments have been making this mistake for years! Yes, Assault carrier (as it gets FBs) would have been a better name.
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team Forbidden Domain
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Posted - 2009.12.29 18:34:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Zeveron
2. Any ETA for fixing the shield gang bonuses? Since as you suggested not to fit a capital shield booster on my titan you also suggesting to wait 2 hours after every session change to get the 37.5% of my shield up?
This, shield boost bonuses are cool, but jumping in to hostile fleet, with a third of your shields already gone? Really? This needs to get fixed.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.29 21:40:00 -
[531]
Please seed the fighter bombers and the skill books on sisi
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DickeDinger
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Posted - 2009.12.29 23:32:00 -
[532]
it would be nice to boost the control range for normal drones on supercarriers aswell, to at least 100 km.
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.29 23:36:00 -
[533]
Originally by: Marcus Tedric What I will suggest, however (flame suit on), is that the cost to build is indeed halved - the SuperCarrier (and there's nothing 'super' about it - it's only a Tier 3 Carrier) - and it is allowed to dock (all existing Mom's are doubled the first time they dock so that pre-change built ones are completely compensated) - simple.
I bought a mothership, one of two supercapitals. I didn't buy a tier two carrier. I would never have trained these lv5-skills for a carrier, hell even a tier2 carrier, there's alot of stuff I'd rather have spent the last year doing in that case.
You should have to sacrifice a character, and invest alot of money, to fly a supercapital. Titans are a huge ****, doesn't mean I want to fly a tight.. well I think you get my point. Scale/proportion.
If CCP really have to introduce their 'carrier 2.0', they should just make a new shiptype instead. A mothership is a mothership, they can give it a new role (or an ugly new name), but it's always going to be a supercap.
..and it'd be nice if CCP for once gave some recognition to players, corporations and alliances who dislike the idea of owning space and POS. Even roaming PvP nomads will want to hit 'endgame ships', in this case, supercapitals. There's numerous low- and npc 0.0-corps/alliances that own titans and motherships today. Having a pure focus on fleet combat, and integrate their role with the sov system, would be a major disaster.
I wonder what Seleene would feel if he wouldn't been able to use his Nyx in offensive combat. Park that ***** at your home HQ outpost/POS, or be forced to only fly it with a fleet of babysitters. Sounds fun, yeah? Not really. Or LK and the other Tri d00ds living in Vale when it was Pure/Hydra-space. Force LK to control a station rather than ganking JF's on jumpbridges and to run plex, that'd be great, right? Right?! I think not.
The mothership is the ultimate space gypsie-boat. The bigger ship- and corp hangar, combined with ewar immunity, this is one of few things that let you live and base in hostile 0.0. It's supposed to be a small-scale frontline boat. At least that's my take on it. Screw fighterbombers. Screw fleet combat. Screw support fleet, screw docking, cheap buildcosts. It needs hp bost, jump range, it's dronebay intact, model size increase, and a fix to the buggy fighters. Then you have a fully functional supercapital. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Ardetia
The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.30 01:05:00 -
[534]
Edited by: Ardetia on 30/12/2009 01:10:14
Originally by: Misanth Edited by: Misanth on 29/12/2009 23:41:47
Originally by: Marcus Tedric What I will suggest, however (flame suit on), is that the cost to build is indeed halved - the SuperCarrier (and there's nothing 'super' about it - it's only a Tier 3 Carrier) - and it is allowed to dock (all existing Mom's are doubled the first time they dock so that pre-change built ones are completely compensated) - simple.
I bought a mothership, one of two supercapitals. I didn't buy a tier two carrier. I would never have trained these lv5-skills for a carrier, hell even a tier2 carrier, there's alot of stuff I'd rather have spent the last year doing in that case.
You should have to sacrifice a character, and invest alot of money, to fly a supercapital. Titans are a huge ****, doesn't mean I want to fly a tight.. well I think you get my point. Scale/proportion.
If CCP really have to introduce their 'carrier 2.0', they should just make a new shiptype instead. A mothership is a mothership, they can give it a new role (or an ugly new name), but it's always going to be a supercap.
..and it'd be nice if CCP for once gave some recognition to players, corporations and alliances who dislike the idea of owning space and POS. Even roaming PvP nomads will want to hit 'endgame ships', in this case, supercapitals. There's numerous low- and npc 0.0-corps/alliances that own titans and motherships today. Having a pure focus on fleet combat, and integrate their role with the sov system, would be a major disaster.
I wonder what Seleene would feel if he wouldn't been able to use his Nyx in offensive combat. Park that ***** at your home HQ outpost/POS, or be forced to only fly it with a fleet of babysitters. Sounds fun, yeah? Not really. Or LK and the other Tri d00ds living in Vale when it was Pure/Hydra-space. Force LK to control a station rather than ganking JF's on jumpbridges and to run plex, that'd be great, right? Right?! I think not.
The mothership is the ultimate space gypsie-boat. The bigger ship- and corp hangar, combined with ewar immunity, this is one of few things that let you live and base in hostile 0.0. It's supposed to be a small-scale frontline boat. At least that's my take on it. Screw fighterbombers. Screw fleet combat. Screw support fleet, screw docking, cheap buildcosts. It needs hp bost, jump range, it's dronebay intact, model size increase, and a fix to the buggy fighters. Then you have a fully functional supercapital.
Edit; Thinking about it, there's actually one addition that fits this kind of ship role/warfare. Give the moms the ability to bypass cynojammers, like covert cynos. That'd be a benefit both to the skirmish/guerilla/small scale warfare, as well as the major 0.0 blobnerds. And it fits the shiptype perfectly. Scrap FB's and add this instead, with HP and jumprange boost, and you're set.
+0.8 i dont agree with all you said but i never win the lottery either some decisions made are just strange, such as titans not being able to solopwn and motherships as well look at the price for once, its a huge price for something so easily lost you can lose them in the blink of an eye, and the only useful thing supercaps had was the DD which changed the tide of the battle dramatically now titan is a regular missile/turret boat with bridge, and thats okay for 20bn, not 60bn motherships are logistics with fighters that die to smartbombs in the blink of an eye in fleet fights so basically just huge logistics, and thats ok, but carriers are cheaper and does the same thing for 1/7 the price
The Flying Tigers are recruiting! |
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.30 01:28:00 -
[535]
Originally by: Ardetia
now, if a DD could be used as a turret instead of 1 per titan, such as Titan 5 = 5 DD's then THAT would make people pull out their titans 5 beams, 10 min wait = ok in my book
Please, don't post again.
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Ardetia
The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.30 01:38:00 -
[536]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: Ardetia
now, if a DD could be used as a turret instead of 1 per titan, such as Titan 5 = 5 DD's then THAT would make people pull out their titans 5 beams, 10 min wait = ok in my book
Please, don't post again.
let me see here, oh yea, how about you post something relevant to the thread here and yes i exaggerated but i fail to see how the current titans are nothing but bridge alts
The Flying Tigers are recruiting! |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.30 04:20:00 -
[537]
Originally by: Ardetia
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: Ardetia
now, if a DD could be used as a turret instead of 1 per titan, such as Titan 5 = 5 DD's then THAT would make people pull out their titans 5 beams, 10 min wait = ok in my book
Please, don't post again.
let me see here, oh yea, how about you post something relevant to the thread here and yes i exaggerated but i fail to see how the current titans are nothing but bridge alts
So you're saying you have no idea how to use an ECM immune dread that also has a 3m damage beam once every 10 minutes with more HP than a large pos beyond jump bridging? I dont think any degree of game mechanics can help you out if you are serious.
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Dead Kennedys
Tin Foil IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.30 04:35:00 -
[538]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Dreads
WeÆve also straightened up one other issue by returning the Naglfar to its primarily turret based bonuses.
Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
Just to confirm this your only removing the bonus and not the actual launcher slots. I'm really getting tired of having to train a new skill at every major patch just to continue flying this dread. |
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.30 04:39:00 -
[539]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 30/12/2009 04:39:55
Originally by: Ardetia let me see here, oh yea, how about you post something relevant to the thread here and yes i exaggerated but i fail to see how the current titans are nothing but bridge alts
If you had actually read the thread you would know I have posted in here multiple times (not to mention all my posts in previous SC-related threads).
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Rejected Enlightenment
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.30 05:45:00 -
[540]
Any plans to mitigate bomb damage to fighters/fighterbombers, one decent bombing run and you're out quite a bit of isk and most of your firepower.
Also, split drone/fighter bays in 1.1 or sometime in the future (or never)
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:39:00 -
[541]
Originally by: Rejected Enlightenment Any plans to mitigate bomb damage to fighters/fighterbombers, one decent bombing run and you're out quite a bit of isk and most of your firepower.
Could just give fighters and fighterbombers an inherent bomb resist. Maybe 75% role bonus against bombs or something.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.30 18:03:00 -
[542]
Why in hell peopel keep askign for more and more ships for gang bonuses if people don 't even use the ones we have? We have Tier 1 and 2 BC we have 2 command ships per race one with extra bonuses. We have carriers, we have titans we have t3 cruisers.
NO ONE NEEDS MORE GANG BONUSES SHIPS! For god sake.. there are thousands of options much more fun and this one is the most overused in eve!
Even a capital ship that throws snowballs is more interestign for the game than EVEN MORE warfare link ships!
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Buzz Aldrino
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Posted - 2009.12.30 19:07:00 -
[543]
Originally by: Rejected Enlightenment Any plans to mitigate bomb damage to fighters/fighterbombers, one decent bombing run and you're out quite a bit of isk and most of your firepower.
Also, split drone/fighter bays in 1.1 or sometime in the future (or never)
A nice way would be to simply reduce the signature radiu sof both fighter and bomber. Never made sence to me that supposedly nimble ships could be hit as easy by battleships, cruisers even should have problems. Also resistances of both should be increased while ehp decreased to make remote repping count more.
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Tweakalvos
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.30 21:01:00 -
[544]
Yay for Good Devs that Know the game they play!!!!
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.30 21:40:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Sunset Rogue
Originally by: Rejected Enlightenment Any plans to mitigate bomb damage to fighters/fighterbombers, one decent bombing run and you're out quite a bit of isk and most of your firepower.
Could just give fighters and fighterbombers an inherent bomb resist. Maybe 75% role bonus against bombs or something.
im crying inside ...
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2009.12.31 02:02:00 -
[546]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Could just give fighters and fighterbombers an inherent bomb resist. Maybe 75% role bonus against bombs or something.
im crying inside ...
Crying with tears of joy I see. Because Abathur has already said that FB vulnerability against bombs is a problem.
He also said that FB already have a fair amount of HP, so giving them more is not a very good solution as they would be too hard to kill by conventional methods.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.12.31 08:43:00 -
[547]
I think buffing the remote ecm burst is the key.
What if it was able to jam dreads in siege/carriers in triage/supercarriers/titans
This would give supercarriers a role and serve to reduce dread blobs.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.31 09:17:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Sigras I think buffing the remote ecm burst is the key.
What if it was able to jam dreads in siege/carriers in triage/supercarriers/titans
This would give supercarriers a role and serve to reduce dread blobs.
You should hop on sisi and find out it already can. I cant tell you the number of times ive ECM bursted myself while also hitting something nearby.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.12.31 11:01:00 -
[549]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: NedFromAssembly For those who have missed it, the HP buff is on sisi, nothing else about it seems to be yet.
All changes in the OP should now be on SiSi. If something didn't make it or there are market seeding issues, etc... please bring it to our attention.
More replies later.
Been a few days, and still no skill/item seeds in FD- or anywhere else for that matter.
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Hot Tubes
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.31 13:45:00 -
[550]
Edited by: Hot Tubes on 31/12/2009 13:45:58 I've read through MOST of the topic so please forgive me if this has come up before.
Are there any plans to give the Moros a role bonus of a boost to drone control range? For long range fights the 60km range (full skills, no range module) isn't really long enough sometimes.
Edit: this is for sentry use of course
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Dismond Tiny
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Posted - 2009.12.31 15:20:00 -
[551]
I had an idea to give Supper Carriers a special role. How about Capital Class Energy Neutralizers and Vampires that can only be fitted on SCs? Just a thought.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.12.31 15:27:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Dismond Tiny I had an idea to give Supper Carriers a special role. How about Capital Class Energy Neutralizers and Vampires that can only be fitted on SCs? Just a thought.
as most SC's will now rely on EHP fits rather than repper/active based fits, its unlikely they'll have the cap recharge to support such a module anyway. although its a nice idea, i dont think the SC is the right ship for it.
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Lachender Henker
The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2009.12.31 15:48:00 -
[553]
I actually like to see fighter-bombers using the bombs stealthbombers use or at least something Squivalent and generate a new AOE effect like that. Depends on how many of those fighter-bombers you will be able to launch you can set bonuses and stats.
For example:
Minmatar Fighter-Bomber:
99,5% amor explosive resistance
5000 explosive damage volley ( per bomb )
explosion radius 10km
10k armor hp 10k shield hp 10 k struc hp a bit less resis to other dmg types since the focus is on explosive resis.
rate of fire 20 seconds
The fighterbomber get 2% Dmg bonus for fighter-bomber-skill per level in this szenario. Carrier-Skill may give another 2% per level for each race ( Hel 2% explosive, Aeon 2% em ... )
In Numbers:
F-B LVL 5 + carrier LVL 5 = 20% Damage Bonus in total 10 FighterBomber Maximum
10 x 6000 = 60000 Damage per volley in a 10 km radius 60000/20 = 3000 DPS in a 10 km radius
For you guys to compare with normal Stealth-Bombers: if i remember correctly you can fire 7 bombs at the same time before they start killing each other, correct me if i am wrong. But i¦ll do my calculations with 7 for now:
Covert ops lvl 5 8000k DmG per bomb
7 x 8000 = 56000 dmg with 15 km radius
so basicly were looking at:
60k dmg in 10 km Radius from f-bombers vs 56k dmg in 15 km radius from 7 stealthbombers
i think that does not look too bad. considering that you need carrier 5, fighters 5, fighterbombers 5 compared to frig 5 cov-op 5 ,i do not even wanna start with the money difference...
also limiting the fighter bomber controlrange to 150 km should make sure that the MS/SC are in harms way when they decide to launch their bombers. You could also restrict em to 0.0 space only like the titan dd is for 0.0 space only, too.
This concept would also focus the ships more on their race and also make sure that MS/SC with different races can not work together on big scale and generate a huge bubble of mayhem. ALso, that way coordination/teamplay is required like we all and ccp like (most).
For normal fighters, on ms/sc i would suggest to boost the damage and reduce the tracking, that way capital ships take more damage from fighters. On the other hand sup caps will be more or less hit like we are used to now. Obviously if they get webbed and painted they will take more damage. This way ms/sc have better chances to be effective in lowsec against other caps like it was intended with fighterbombers, f0r 0.0 they got the other toy i described above.
I hear the "that is too much damage if..." remember the fighterbombers can be killed by the surrounding support outside the 10 km radius and ms/sc sooner or later run out of f-bombers. Also by limiting the f-bombers within a 150km rage you avoid asigning f-bombers to ceptors at a gate with the ms/sc sitting at the pos, so no "assigned mini dd".
My ideas are based on actually exposing the ship and risking a lot, if you bring your ship in. Thats why i think that the current dd range is too far, but thats a different story.
I¦d really like to see your guys imput on this one.
Henker
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Phaton
Ascent of Ages Art of Defiance
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Posted - 2009.12.31 16:40:00 -
[554]
I wanted to test fighter bombers but it seems that they nor thier bpo's have been seeded, anyone else had this problem?
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.31 21:36:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Phaton I wanted to test fighter bombers but it seems that they nor thier bpo's have been seeded, anyone else had this problem?
skillbook isn't seeded either ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Deva Blackfire
Cry Me a River INC
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Posted - 2009.12.31 21:45:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Lachender Henker stuff
Because we TOTALLY need new AOE mounted on supercapital hull that can kill BS gang in 20 seconds flat amrite?
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William Caldon
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.12.31 23:44:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lachender Henker stuff
Because we TOTALLY need new AOE mounted on supercapital hull that can kill BS gang in 20 seconds flat amrite?
This is why the above idea fails. It was bad enough with the Titan, lets not make it 100X worse with your idiotic out of whack idea.
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Kaimi Fateseeker
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Posted - 2010.01.01 03:28:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Arra Lith Edited by: Arra Lith on 24/12/2009 09:06:01Missile-based capital ship (Phoenix) really needs some serious overhaul. Or there will be only 3 dreads worth using.
Main disadvantage of missiles is delayed damage. Delayed damage means that missile-ship starts doing damage after ~ 20 seconds (depends on range to target) - thats usually 1 less volley than gunnery-ships. If enemy ship is killed by gunnery alpha than missile ships will always do 0 damage. On conventional ships this is compensated by two things. First is ability to adjust damage type (same as gunnery ships can adjust damage/range by switching ammo - projectiles can adjust both damage type dealt and range now). Second is that base missile damage is at least same as closest range gunnery ammo. Here is some comparision - proof:
1) Cruise missile launcher II vs 425mm Railgun II Cruise DMG = 300 / RoF = 17.6 Base DPS (unmodified by skills and ship bonuses) = 17.045
425mm Railgun + Antimatter L DMG = 48 * DmgMod = 3.3 / RoF = 9.563 Base DPS = 16.56
Cruise / 425mm ratio = 102.93% (almost 3 % higher base dps)
2) Siege torpedo II vs Neutron Blaster II Torpedo DMG = 450 / RoF = 14.4 Base DPS = 31.25
Neutron Blaster + Antimatter L DMG = 48 * DmgMod = 4.2 / RoF = 7.875 Base DPS = 25.6
Torpedo / Neutron ratio = 122.07% (almost 22 % higher base dps)
3) Heavy Missile II vs Railgun 250mm II HM DMG = 150 / RoF = 12 Base DPS = 12.5
Railgun 250mm + Antimatter M DMG = 24 * DmgMod = 3.3 / RoF = 6.375 Base DPS = 12.42
HM / Railgun = 100.6% (almost same base dps)
That is why missiles work at conventional ships, despite disadvantages (lower bonuses from skills / delayed damage) - they work especially well in PvE. Higher base DPS is KEY.
As for capital ships. Citadel missiles keep all their disadvantages but DO NOT KEEP THEIR ADVANTAGES !!!
Proof:
4) Citadel Cruise vs Dual 1000mm CC DMG = 1500 / RoF = 44 Base DPS = 34.09
Dual 1000mm + Antimatter XL DMG = 96 * DmgMod = 5.8 (new) / RoF = 14.345 Base DPS = 38.81
CitadelCruise / Rail1000mm ratio = 87.8 % (13% lower dps) Delayed damage = equal to first 2 missed volleys (30 seconds missile travel time)
5) Citadel Torpedo vs Ion Siege Blaster CT DMG = 2000 / RoF = 34 Base DPS = 58.82
Ion Siege + Antimatter XL DMG = 96 * DmgMod = 7.92 / RoF = 6.375 Base DPS = 119.26
Torpedo / Ion Siege ratio = 49.32 % (almost 2x lower dps) Delayed damage = equal to first 3 missed volleys (22.5 seconds missile travel time)
Phoenix can't switch damage dealt, like Raven (or Golem) - without losing its damage bonus. Phoenix deal much less DPS than other dreads with highest-damage ammo - making higher DPS as trade off for delayed damage no longer valid. Phoenix still deal delayed damage (thats always min 2 volley hits less than other dreads - 3 less with close range).
When you see those numbers at capitals - Im sure first though is - something is broken here ? Especially with close range weapons - torpedos dealing 2x less damage than Blasters AND Torpedos "missing" first 3 cycles (damage kicks in after blasters succesfully shoot 3 times) AND torpedos cant switch damage type (always kinetic or no bonus..). As for long-range weapons - difference is much less, but still - advantage of bigger damage as trade of for delayed damage is no longer exist at capital ships - and that hurts.
So welcome new era - Revelation & Moros (well and Naglfar too, since it get rid off that missile thingie). Phoenixes will be for funny suicidal stuff only...
QFT. I still keep hoping for a honest and reasoned answer to this serious analysis and points ... but it's so drowned in the mom/supercarrier furor, I think it's been lost. Abathur, can you please give some consideration to this, or at least fill us in on what may have been given?
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.01 10:21:00 -
[559]
This game does not need more AoE **** in it.
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Lady Australia
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Posted - 2010.01.01 10:50:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Arra Lith
stuff about phoenix sucking
back in the pre dominion pos shoot days, the moros/rev would outdps a phoenix on a tower about 3:1 (figures were around 120k damage per minute on a phoenix to 360k on rev/moros.
this doesnt even touch on the fact that citadel missiles are so slow my grandmothers gopher could outrun them, and they can be speed tanked by a carrier (seriously WTF).
Out of interest, how does increasing the velocity of a missile do anything besides make it hit the target faster and make them far more useful? it shouldnt change the dps* (depending on ROF obviously, not explosion velocity/radius/base damage) at all?
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.01 13:58:00 -
[561]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 01/01/2010 14:02:13
Originally by: Sunset Rogue
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Could just give fighters and fighterbombers an inherent bomb resist. Maybe 75% role bonus against bombs or something.
im crying inside ...
Crying with tears of joy I see. Because Abathur has already said that FB vulnerability against bombs is a problem.
He also said that FB already have a fair amount of HP, so giving them more is not a very good solution as they would be too hard to kill by conventional methods.
ok let's see: - giving a role bonus to DRONES (not ships) - check - ppl who cant manage their fighters now whining about how fighters and f-bombers gonna suck to AOE bombs - check
seriously how is this any diferent from what's happening now ? ppl r using fighters against smartbombing carriers, they r using it cuz they fail and probably cant even use t2 sentries
the THING with drone oriented ships is that u r supose to watch for ur dps if its not being nuked by anything (even a single ship can destroy a fighter (let's give them a role bonus against everything or better let's make them indestructible...)
if u cant watch for ur drones than ur not supose to use a carrier, it's a simple thing - u see that ur fighters being hit by something u scoop just the one whos being pwned or lock it and try to rr OR u scoop ALL fighters and use sentry drones from a safe distance - ffs u should have at least 50km rep range anyway...
some changes proposed here are as ridiculous as changes proposed to lets say Vindicator cuz the ship is suposed (lol?)to do 1600+dps without overloading...
ECM burst works ok - i wouldnt mind tweaking it a bit by addint like +10-15 to it's strengh but tbh i can live with how it works now
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.01 17:12:00 -
[562]
Originally by: LoveKebab
if u cant watch for ur drones than ur not supose to use a carrier, it's a simple thing - u see that ur fighters being hit by something u scoop just the one whos being pwned or lock it and try to rr OR u scoop ALL fighters and use sentry drones from a safe distance - ffs u should have at least 50km rep range anyway...
I hope you're not suggesting that scooping FBs and dropping T2 sentries is a viable alternative for SCs.
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DickeDinger
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Posted - 2010.01.01 17:35:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lachender Henker stuff
Because we TOTALLY need new AOE mounted on supercapital hull that can kill BS gang in 20 seconds flat amrite?
Dude, you need to read it again, he described that it is not mounted on the ship. It is also not working for the whole grid just a 10 km radius. What i also like about this that you can actually kill the fighterbombers and take the Supercarriers "aoe" effect of the field. It seams totally different to me then the dd device we used to know pre dominion.
Good idea, i like it !
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Deva Blackfire
Cry Me a River INC
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Posted - 2010.01.01 17:54:00 -
[564]
Originally by: ****eDinger
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Lachender Henker stuff
Because we TOTALLY need new AOE mounted on supercapital hull that can kill BS gang in 20 seconds flat amrite?
Dude, you need to read it again, he described that it is not mounted on the ship. It is also not working for the whole grid just a 10 km radius. What i also like about this that you can actually kill the fighterbombers and take the Supercarriers "aoe" effect of the field. It seams totally different to me then the dd device we used to know pre dominion.
Good idea, i like it !
You are pretty dumb even by EVE standards. But ill translate this idea for you: 10km radius (20km sphere) doomsday launch every 20 seconds. With 5 motherships and his idea you would kill 50+ dreads (more or less dependant on how far they bump from each other) in 120 seconds flat.
So dream on - it will never happen.
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DickeDinger
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Posted - 2010.01.01 19:16:00 -
[565]
the 50+ dreads sit still then and do nothing for 2-3 mins, just watching how they get killed...
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.01 20:06:00 -
[566]
I still feel what's on the table about SuperCarriers is a rather lame work since the withdraw pre-dominion. The reason for leaving the changes of this ships was that they got no real role and they blured in to much with the Dreads/Carriers. After this U now came back with a change that furfills that failure even more, especially since the Hel got stuck with it's old bonuses. So I wonder:
1) What's the Supercarriers new role that make it stick out from Dreads/Carriers? - I mean the one you found during the silence? Or do you not care about that anymore?
2) Why do you keep the logistics bonus and at the same time remove the triage? - It feels to me as U don't know what to do with the ship. As if U both wanna remain it logistics oriented and at the same time not.
3) Will you change the Hel bonus? - It's rather silly to keep old bonus when you remove the triage, you got to see that? - What about the Fighter Bomber explosion radius that was the last I know of on SiSi pre-Dominion?
4) What's your view on Fighter Bomber survival-ability in massive capital fights as we see in nullsec today? - Will Fighter bombers get some resistans to bombs (smarties as well as stealth bombers bombs)? - Or U got some other solution to this or U not see this as a possible problem for SC-pilots? - Myself would prefere if FB's always orbited the SC's and fired long range torpedos orbiting, would that be impossible - and if so why? It still wouldn't be hard to kill them all with Stealth Bombers bombs. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
0nline
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2010.01.01 20:09:00 -
[567]
Edited by: 0nline on 01/01/2010 20:09:16 Edited by: 0nline on 01/01/2010 20:08:59 Well it's been a very long time that the changes have been on the test server but none of the stuff is getting seeded. I guess CCP Nozh has come back from vacation and gone
'Hey CCP Abathur WTF do you think your doing I told you that you're not allowed to make those mothership changes that everyone wants. Now let me get my nerf gun out and screw everything up.'
But seriously guys why can't you allow us to test this stuff these changes look good to me.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2010.01.01 20:40:00 -
[568]
Edited by: RoCkEt X on 01/01/2010 20:40:48 FB's do not need resistance to smartbombs or bombs.
you see a bomb/smarties, you pull your fighters back, its the way it works now, its the way it has always been and its the way it always will be.
fighters now respond instantly, like drones, instead of 1 at a time, this means you can pull them back fast after the bombs are launched. bombs have a 10 second pop time iirc, easily enough for you to get your fighters out of harms way if you're watching.
i'm getting sick of this issue. at base HP (without drone durability) have 20k hp, so with drone durability 5, its a 25% increase, so 25k hp without resists, based on averages, it'd be around 35k ehp. which is enough to survive 5 bombs; i.e. stop complaining.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.01 21:16:00 -
[569]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 01/01/2010 21:21:18
Originally by: RoCkEt X
you see a bomb/smarties, you pull your fighters back, its the way it works now, its the way it has always been and its the way it always will be.
pulling fighters/FBs back = zero dps. The reason why this isn't as big of an issue with fighters on carriers is that in larger fights carriers are tasked with logistics, not dps. SCs are the opposite. If SCs have to recall their FBs every time a few smartbombs come into play or a few bombers come out, they aren't worth using in any sizable fight.
Quote: fighters now respond instantly
Except, you know, when it's very laggy, such as in a fleet fight, which is the main place SCs will be used. However it's obviously greatly improved from how it was.
Quote: which is enough to survive 5 bombs
Which, coincidentally, is 1-2 less bombs than are generally launched at one time by bomber gangs.
And even if they only launch 5 (or only five hit), what then? you return them to orbit and spend the next however many minutes locking and repping all 20 FBs while contributing exactly nothing to your fleet? Even when you're all done repping, shield reppers still have zero armor and low structure on their FBs and armor reppers are a bit better off as they have no shield/low structure but at least the shield will rep over time.
I'm not agreeing with the need for smartbomb/bomb resistance "role bonus", just saying you're downplaying the danger of them far too much
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2010.01.01 21:51:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 01/01/2010 21:32:39
Originally by: RoCkEt X
you see a bomb/smarties, you pull your fighters back, its the way it works now, its the way it has always been and its the way it always will be.
pulling fighters/FBs back = zero dps. The reason why this isn't as big of an issue with fighters on carriers is that in larger fights carriers are tasked with logistics, not dps. SCs are the opposite. If SCs have to recall their FBs every time a few smartbombs come into play or a few bombers come out, they aren't worth using in any sizable fight.
Quote: fighters now respond instantly
Except, you know, when it's very laggy, such as in a fleet fight, which is the main place SCs will be used. However it's obviously greatly improved from how it was.
Quote: which is enough to survive 5 bombs
what then? you return them to orbit and spend the next however many minutes locking and repping all 20 FBs while contributing exactly nothing to your fleet? Even when you're all done repping, shield reppers still have zero armor and low structure on their FBs and armor reppers are a bit better off as they have no shield/low structure but at least the shield will rep over time.
I'm not agreeing with the need for smartbomb/bomb resistance "role bonus", just saying you're downplaying the danger of them far too much
tbh, theres a counter to everything. and smartbombs are the counter to drones.
As for lag, if its laggy, everyone else is F**ked too, whether they're using drones, fighters, guns, missiles or thier nipples for dps, they're still gonna have lag problems.
You're essentially asking for them to remove a perfectly reasonable counter, thus making FB's overpowered. The current patch notes are perfectly fine, however the size of SC dronebay needs increasing.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.01 22:10:00 -
[571]
Originally by: RoCkEt X tbh, theres a counter to everything. and smartbombs are the counter to drones.
As for lag, if its laggy, everyone else is F**ked too, whether they're using drones, fighters, guns, missiles or thier nipples for dps, they're still gonna have lag problems.
You're essentially asking for them to remove a perfectly reasonable counter, thus making FB's overpowered. The current patch notes are perfectly fine, however the size of SC dronebay needs increasing.
The issue isn't to remove a counter - but to make the new firepower with a cost at about 400M ISK (AFTER price settles) that's only usable in a ship that costs about 15B to be useful in large fleetbattles as anything else than just an e-peen on the grid. I think it's hard to make FB's overpowered by just making them useful even in capitalblobs. There should be large supportfleets in such occasions with guns that fast could take the FB's out if that's the goal. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.01 22:12:00 -
[572]
Since you people seem too dumb to figure this out all on your own I am going to offer you a hand here. Compact citadel torps on sisi last time they were seen had a range of about 68km. Fighter bombers themselves started firing these torps the moment you told them to attack *regardless of their current range* and spammed them until they were recalled eventually reaching orbit.
Now you tell me, if there are massive smartbombers and you have a weapon that reaches 68km and fires once every 15 seconds ***why are you letting your bombers into smartbomb range***
Oh god you have to micromanage your ****, its terrible. Almost like you have to actually play the game.
Shut up about smartbombs, it isn't a problem unless you're dumber than nails. Which most of you seem to be unfortunately.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.01 22:21:00 -
[573]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Since you people seem too dumb to figure this out all on your own I am going to offer you a hand here. Compact citadel torps on sisi last time they were seen had a range of about 68km. Fighter bombers themselves started firing these torps the moment you told them to attack *regardless of their current range* and spammed them until they were recalled eventually reaching orbit.
Now you tell me, if there are massive smartbombers and you have a weapon that reaches 68km and fires once every 15 seconds ***why are you letting your bombers into smartbomb range***
Oh god you have to micromanage your ****, its terrible. Almost like you have to actually play the game.
Shut up about smartbombs, it isn't a problem unless you're dumber than nails. Which most of you seem to be unfortunately.
Well, since you are dumb as a rock I'm gonna need to point out that what you say still doesn't solve the issue about this ships being useless for most of the fights (that was pointed out in my edit above) - since they gotta go back and not fire a great deal of the time and also need to be micromanaged like the whole time in a lag that's probably terrible and it will probably be close to impossible to keep track on where all your FB's are.
If you think that's an solution I see that about being dumb it for sure seems rock > nails. Go figure. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.01 22:25:00 -
[574]
Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 01/01/2010 22:29:03 So you seriously can't press a button twice in 15 seconds? Because if you can kazam they are firing for max dps.
Oh my bad I just saw your alliance ticker, that answers a lot ^_^
If your argument is BUT THESE DONT WORK IN HEAVY LAG. Then dont even bother responding. Damn near nothing works for decent dps in heavy lag.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.01 22:57:00 -
[575]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 01/01/2010 22:29:03 So you seriously can't press a button twice in 15 seconds? Because if you can kazam they are firing for max dps.
Oh my bad I just saw your alliance ticker, that answers a lot ^_^
If your argument is BUT THESE DONT WORK IN HEAVY LAG. Then dont even bother responding. Damn near nothing works for decent dps in heavy lag.
I see that you still ask yourself what my argument is, and that you still fail to understand both what I said and why your "solution" isn't a solution. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.01 23:35:00 -
[576]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 01/01/2010 22:29:03 So you seriously can't press a button twice in 15 seconds? Because if you can kazam they are firing for max dps.
Oh my bad I just saw your alliance ticker, that answers a lot ^_^
If your argument is BUT THESE DONT WORK IN HEAVY LAG. Then dont even bother responding. Damn near nothing works for decent dps in heavy lag.
I see that you still ask yourself what my argument is, and that you still fail to understand both what I said and why your "solution" isn't a solution.
Just ignore him. He has offered no constructive feed back at all and anything that might hint as feedback on the topic is laced with non-stop trolling on everyone else in this thread. He is getting emotional because you are set negative to his alliance and therefore is confused into thinking he should treat this thread like it is posted in COAD.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.01.01 23:38:00 -
[577]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Since you people seem too dumb to figure this out all on your own I am going to offer you a hand here. Compact citadel torps on sisi last time they were seen had a range of about 68km. Fighter bombers themselves started firing these torps the moment you told them to attack *regardless of their current range* and spammed them until they were recalled eventually reaching orbit.
Now you tell me, if there are massive smartbombers and you have a weapon that reaches 68km and fires once every 15 seconds ***why are you letting your bombers into smartbomb range***
Oh god you have to micromanage your ****, its terrible. Almost like you have to actually play the game.
Shut up about smartbombs, it isn't a problem unless you're dumber than nails. Which most of you seem to be unfortunately.
this goon uses the brain rather well.. ok I said it.. its done. Now i need to go back to my cave and meditate to cleanse my soul.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.01 23:56:00 -
[578]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Edited by: NedFromAssembly on 01/01/2010 22:29:03 So you seriously can't press a button twice in 15 seconds? Because if you can kazam they are firing for max dps.
Oh my bad I just saw your alliance ticker, that answers a lot ^_^
If your argument is BUT THESE DONT WORK IN HEAVY LAG. Then dont even bother responding. Damn near nothing works for decent dps in heavy lag.
I see that you still ask yourself what my argument is, and that you still fail to understand both what I said and why your "solution" isn't a solution.
Just ignore him. He has offered no constructive feed back at all and anything that might hint as feedback on the topic is laced with non-stop trolling on everyone else in this thread. He is getting emotional because you are set negative to his alliance and therefore is confused into thinking he should treat this thread like it is posted in COAD.
Sorry if you also cannot filter out the trolling from the actual points. But then again from what I have seen of your ideas in the CSM forum and here you really have a low grasp of game mechanics. But hey sure ya fighter bombers do not work as intended so dont buy them and firesale your MS at a low cost to someone else. Meanwhile I will be enjoying mine and the nearly overpowered bombers that come with :)
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.02 00:44:00 -
[579]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Oh god you have to micromanage your ****, its terrible. Almost like you have to actually play the game.
So every 15 seconds or so you have to recall and reengage your FBs, for the duration of any fight involving numerous smartbombs. I hardly see that as a practical solution.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.02 00:58:00 -
[580]
Edited by: SolarKnight on 02/01/2010 00:59:03
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 02/01/2010 00:55:39
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Oh god you have to micromanage your ****, its terrible. Almost like you have to actually play the game.
So every 15 seconds (considerably less, really, if you want to ensure full dps) you have to recall and reengage your FBs, for the duration of any fight involving the threat of numerous smartbombs or a number of bombers. I hardly see that as a practical solution. The more pita/micromanage you add the less worthwhile they end up being in practice and there is already plenty of micromanage necessary for effectively using FBs without having to do this.
Anyone who has flown any kind of drone ship, knows that as soon as you start taking damage to your drones, you pull them back and then throw them back at the target, its like a reflex, either that or you rep them with a high slot rep (or you can take the chance of the target dying first but thats more risky).
Seriously, don't you people try flying dominix's before you try carriers, or hell even vexors?
The Light in the Darkness
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.02 01:26:00 -
[581]
They only fire every 15 seconds and they have a range far greater than their orbit range. Is it really that hard to keep a drone within 68km of a target moving less than 100m/s? If you cant micromanage them maybe this isnt the ship for you? Try a titan its more the f1-f8 youre used to.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.02 01:37:00 -
[582]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 02/01/2010 01:41:12
Originally by: SolarKnight
Anyone who has flown any kind of drone ship, knows that as soon as you start taking damage to your drones, you pull them back and then throw them back at the target, its like a reflex, either that or you rep them with a high slot rep (or you can take the chance of the target dying first but thats more risky).
And this is the sort of micromanaging I was referring to with "and there is already..." What Ned is referring to is not this, it is in addition to this. there is a difference between recalling and redeploying drones to break locks (or returning damaged drones and spitting out new ones) and being required to repeatedly hit whatever 2 hotkeys you set to "return to orbit" and "engage target" every 12-14 seconds for the duration of an engagement.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.02 01:41:00 -
[583]
Yes in one you use 2 hotkeys to recall and deploy, in another you hit two hotkeys to moderate their range. Sorry but letting these orbit too far out would cause some real problems in my opinion and it amazes me none of you see how insanely powerful these ships are going to be.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.02 02:04:00 -
[584]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 02/01/2010 02:06:58
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Yes in one you use 2 hotkeys to recall and deploy, in another you hit two hotkeys to moderate their range.
But in one case you are doing it relatively infrequently. In another you are guaranteed to be doing it every ~14 seconds.
Quote: and it amazes me none of you see how insanely powerful these ships are going to be.
everything else staying how it is, FB survivability/usability will be the determining factor in their success in capital engagements. If it turns out FBs dont start dropping like flies then yes, they will be amazing.
Quote: Sorry but letting these orbit too far out would cause some real problems in my opinion
I personally was rather guarded on them having too great of an orbit range. However I did and still do think they need to be moved up to 8km. navy emp smarties should not be able to hit FBs.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.02 02:32:00 -
[585]
5 MS are going to be releasing a cloud of 100 fighterbombers. I assure you we are going to see groups 30+ MS. When you have that many its really not worth the supports time to attack the 600 fighterbombers on grid.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.01.02 02:49:00 -
[586]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 02/01/2010 02:55:18
Originally by: NedFromAssembly 5 MS are going to be releasing a cloud of 100 fighterbombers. I assure you we are going to see groups 30+ MS. When you have that many its really not worth the supports time to attack the 600 fighterbombers on grid.
I imagine it will be for bombers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:04:00 -
[587]
Sure if you are politely keeping them all clumped up and not spread out. Thats kind of why we have bombs, to discourage that.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.01.02 07:36:00 -
[588]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Sure if you are politely keeping them all clumped up and not spread out. Thats kind of why we have bombs, to discourage that.
I'm not saying they necessarily will be clumped up all together. What I am saying is as the number of SCs goes up, bombers become a better and better option. If there were 30 SCs on the field, plus carrier support, that is ridiculously hard to break. I would wager that at this point putting a good number of your support in bombers (as opposed to sniper hac/bs) and focusing on the SCs ability to do damage will become a smart alternative to trying to ignore the FBs and try and barrel through 20-30m EHP SCs with 50, 60, 70+ cap RR on them. They are the best real counter to SC spam, which is fine. But the balance of FB survivability is paramount both to their success in capital warfare and to their not becoming the end all be all. Abathur et al are still very scared of SC spam/OPness, which is why they don't want to raise FB HP any more. I'm fine with this as long as they keep an eye on them and make adjustments if needed. My only worry is that CCP tends to not make adjustments if they aren't large, and if the problem isn't glaring. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Julio Torres
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.02 10:33:00 -
[589]
Is CCP happy with the current use of Titans?
Besides the ganks, several cap fleet engagements has been cancelled due to high Titan presence in the immediate area.
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.02 10:40:00 -
[590]
Most people are still scared of losing titans. Titans are massive powerhouses in capital engagements. People just refuse to believe this and adjust accordingly. We won a fight the other night specifically because we had a bunch of titans on field.
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Labourer
The Damned Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.02 13:34:00 -
[591]
Originally by: Julio Torres Is CCP happy with the current use of Titans?
Besides the ganks, several cap fleet engagements has been cancelled due to high Titan presence in the immediate area.
The rewards of owning one is now finally worth the risk. Also, Alliances havn't really changed their strategy to counter them. Time will tell.
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caio
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Posted - 2010.01.02 13:51:00 -
[592]
Really, Why is CCP changing roles again of the capital ships. As far as I know (also, if you back like to 07 in a dev blog), dreads should be the capital killer, not motherships, super carriers, whatever, and titans. That¦s because CCP boosted (or nerfed) the sig radius of the capital ships, so the capital guns in siege could hit moving targets. And now CCP come and simply steal the dread¦s role and put in another ship. Really CCP, try to figure out another role and let the old one with the dreads, or they will just be used just for POS siege, because SC and probably titans will be much more flexible and used than carriers and dreads.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.02 14:33:00 -
[593]
Originally by: NedFromAssembly Since you people seem too dumb to figure this out all on your own I am going to offer you a hand here. Compact citadel torps on sisi last time they were seen had a range of about 68km. Fighter bombers themselves started firing these torps the moment you told them to attack *regardless of their current range* and spammed them until they were recalled eventually reaching orbit.
Now you tell me, if there are massive smartbombers and you have a weapon that reaches 68km and fires once every 15 seconds ***why are you letting your bombers into smartbomb range***
Oh god you have to micromanage your ****, its terrible. Almost like you have to actually play the game.
Shut up about smartbombs, it isn't a problem unless you're dumber than nails. Which most of you seem to be unfortunately.
ur my new hero from now on :P QFT!
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2010.01.02 14:57:00 -
[594]
Now that lowsec DD beam is gone, how about introducing "bumping beam" module for it? You could allow that to work in lowsec to push people off stations, and in fleet battles for breaking up RR chains. Obviously it would have less cooldown and restrictions than killing beam.
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Arronicus
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.02 22:03:00 -
[595]
These changes satisfy my desires. Yay abathur.
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Vuk Lau
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.03 01:12:00 -
[596]
Originally by: Julio Torres Is CCP happy with the current use of Titans?
Besides the ganks, several cap fleet engagements has been cancelled due to high Titan presence in the immediate area.
The worst whine I heard in a long time.
Btw is CCP happy with the current use of Battleships.
Besides the ganks, several BC/HAC fleet engagements has been cancelled due to high Battleship presence in the immediate area.
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Deva Blackfire
Cry Me a River INC
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Posted - 2010.01.03 01:40:00 -
[597]
Originally by: Julio Torres Is CCP happy with the current use of Titans?
Besides the ganks, several cap fleet engagements has been cancelled due to high Titan presence in the immediate area.
And one of his previous posts in this very same thread.
Quote: Any more changes to titans? Its not very appealing only to sit in a pos bridging people, and occasionally jump in on a cynogen to gank a capital, then spending the next 10min warping around in circles.
I luv the irony here.
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galphi
Gallente Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.01.03 03:09:00 -
[598]
Since the MS/supercarriers are losing triage ability, the Hel bonus should be changed to something more appropriate - I suggest a speed increase to the fighters/fighterbombers of 5%(or 10%) per level, it's more fitting for a minmatar vessel ;)
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Dolgu
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Posted - 2010.01.03 03:43:00 -
[599]
Edited by: Dolgu on 03/01/2010 03:44:02 Great job Abathur - Nozh i don't hate you
But i have still a few questions.
1.What is with the Citadel Cruise Explosion Graphic? Will we get a new awesome Explosion of total hell death for them? It's not really cool if they have the same Explosion than Normal Cruise Missiles. And is it possible to get the Citadel Torpedo Explosion as a placeholder?
2.Jumpgraphic? You remeber? Maybe you have now some more details?
3.How is the Idea of making Anti_Capital_Dreads and Anti_Struc_Dreads. I think this would make this ship class more special and would bring them more together without boosting their DPS just to the same level. I mean one dread could be really awesome against Structures and another could be hitting other Capitals very bad. I'm sure the Phoenix is a god candidate for a anti Capital Dread. With a big Explosion Radius but fast Explosion Velocity it could hit other moving Capitals but can't hit Sub capital vessel to much. Just the ability to deploy the full DPS on another Capital would make it more worthy.
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Vincent Jarjadian
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Posted - 2010.01.03 14:54:00 -
[600]
Can someone from CCP confirm if Fighter Bombers can be assigned to other ships like normal fighters?
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.03 15:04:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian Can someone from CCP confirm if Fighter Bombers can be assigned to other ships like normal fighters?
I am quite sure they can not ne assigned.
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qreepii
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Posted - 2010.01.03 16:14:00 -
[602]
Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian Can someone from CCP confirm if Fighter Bombers can be assigned to other ships like normal fighters?
The last incarnation of Bombers could not be assigned as CCP basically said if mom pilots want their DPS on target they will need to be on the field.
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Luc Ferros
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.03 18:19:00 -
[603]
Edited by: Luc Ferros on 03/01/2010 18:31:02 Afai have read they do not plan to allow them to be assigned due to the fact that moms would just sit at pos`s and send out interceptors and AS`s with wings of fighterbombers.
Edit* got sent to early.
The changes look great and it will be wonderful to see these ships on the battlefield as more than just bait! Its also awesome that the size of the models is gonna be looked at cause i agree they are way way to small for what they are supposed to be.
As for FB's and there inherant weakness to bombers, the solution is just have support ships in the enemy cap fleet that are anti bomber. 1 Hic 2 dics and a bunch of fast locking hacs destroyers cruisers or t2 frigs. All it takes is one person to get lock so they cant cloak and they die. Is it an expensive weapon, of f*ck yea but it also makes the SC a scary ship to fight against.
The Shield Gap Really needs to be looked at tho, if you jump a Wyvern into a fight you land with some of your primary tank missing already, its not a big deal for armor tanks but for shield tanks its huge.
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sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.03 22:46:00 -
[604]
This might be an odd question but can fighter bombers warp? (like fighters)
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Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose
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Posted - 2010.01.03 23:22:00 -
[605]
Edited by: Zarch AlDain on 03/01/2010 23:26:37 Three suggestions:
ONE: Don't forget the orbit range of the bombers can be tweaked for different types of bombers. This gives another dimension for balancing in and players a choice to make between damage and survivability.
i.e. Gallente: least range (5k), most damage (10k) Caldari: mid range (7k), mid damage (8k) Amarr: mid range (8k), mid damage (7k) Minmatar: most range (10k), least damage (6k)
(Damage is for 20 based on the statement above that current FB will do 8k dps).
TWO: Give Hel a 10% (or maybe 7.5%) damage bonus to fighters and FB Explosive (but only explosive) damage. That means it can actually do more damage than the Nyx but cannot change damage type.
THREE: Too big for 1.1 but take a look at my idea posted here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1187954&page=1#1
It involves using Titans and Motherships to generate tactical environments - effectively turning them into massive force multipliers and both giving people a reason to field them and FC's something new to work with to shape the battle to their liking.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.04 00:26:00 -
[606]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 00:27:26
Originally by: Zarch AlDain
TWO: Give Hel a 10% (or maybe 7.5%) damage bonus to fighters and FB Explosive (but only explosive) damage. That means it can actually do more damage than the Nyx but cannot change damage type.
looking at this i would even take it a bit higher by giving Hel bonus to FIGHTER BOMBERS dmg ONLY
and the reason behind this is that minmatar got split weapons like ... forever and besides of being epicly awsome with guns they work pretty well as bombers (phoon, naglfar(yea yea ...), cyclone)
so that bonus would actually make all caps in line so that wyvern and aeon keep their bonus to resists, nyx keeps it bonus for fighters ONLY and hel would get nice bonus for bombers but not big enough to make it overpowered (i would say 5% per level would be more than enough)
and i know it would totally reverse the usefulness of this ship too - from zero to hero ! :D
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AngryCanuk
Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2010.01.04 01:59:00 -
[607]
Has there been any mention of the cost of MS's? willit be dropped down to "7-8 bill range" or will they stay around the 16bill range as they are now?
Honor does not have to be defended. - Robert J. Sawyer
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.04 02:02:00 -
[608]
Originally by: AngryCanuk Has there been any mention of the cost of MS's? willit be dropped down to "7-8 bill range" or will they stay around the 16bill range as they are now?
they've said that the change in price will be the reduction of the clone vat bay from the build cost. So one can figure it out right now. Look at a Ms bpo and check the cost of all the parts minus the clone vat bay.
Yea Lk that would be good, that or drone speed i think would suit the hel
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.04 04:55:00 -
[609]
Originally by: LoveKebab nyx keeps it bonus for fighters ONLY
fighters only? you're even dumber than I thought.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.04 04:58:00 -
[610]
Edited by: SolarKnight on 04/01/2010 05:05:51
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 00:27:26
Originally by: Zarch AlDain
TWO: Give Hel a 10% (or maybe 7.5%) damage bonus to fighters and FB Explosive (but only explosive) damage. That means it can actually do more damage than the Nyx but cannot change damage type.
looking at this i would even take it a bit higher by giving Hel bonus to FIGHTER BOMBERS dmg ONLY
and the reason behind this is that minmatar got split weapons like ... forever and besides of being epicly awsome with guns they work pretty well as bombers (phoon, naglfar(yea yea ...), cyclone)
so that bonus would actually make all caps in line so that wyvern and aeon keep their bonus to resists, nyx keeps it bonus for fighters ONLY and hel would get nice bonus for bombers but not big enough to make it overpowered (i would say 5% per level would be more than enough)
and i know it would totally reverse the usefulness of this ship too - from hero to zero ! :D
FYP
EDIT: This is exactly what zulupark wanted to do before, he wanted carriers to only have bonuses to fighters, and he actually had death threats sent to him if i recall the dev posts correctly.
The Light in the Darkness
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.04 06:22:00 -
[611]
zulupark wanted to do a lt of strange things when he wrote the swiss army knife blog, very little of it made sense.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.04 11:57:00 -
[612]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 11:57:59
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: LoveKebab nyx keeps it bonus for fighters ONLY
fighters only? you're even dumber than I thought.
now that was one constructive post ... exept the fact it wasnt...
u r obviously a nyx owner, there was no other reason for u to jumping on some1 with an IDEA while have none...
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NedFromAssembly
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.04 13:44:00 -
[613]
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 12:09:55 Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 11:57:59
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: LoveKebab nyx keeps it bonus for fighters ONLY
fighters only? you're even dumber than I thought.
now that was one constructive post ... exept the fact it wasnt...
u r obviously a nyx owner, there was no other reason for u to jumping on some1 with an IDEA while have none...
Originally by: SolarKnight
FYP
EDIT: This is exactly what zulupark wanted to do before, he wanted carriers to only have bonuses to fighters, and he actually had death threats sent to him if i recall the dev posts correctly.
but that was about carriers in early development, right? problem with increased velocity for fighters is that the bonus does not rly get the Hel in line with other motherships, i mean seriously...
aeon + wyvern are like "look at my epic resists" nyx is like "I WILL DESTROY!" and hel would be like "lolol look at my fighters going Zzzzoooommmmmm...."
ive seen few ideas so far but seriously dps for bombers would be probably the best so nyx can have it's 3500dps (or something) from fighters and still get the 8000dps from bombers while hel would be doing 2750dps from fighters and 10k from bombers...
we are trying to change hel from being re-tarded to being usefull and not just less re-tarded
and im not even mentioning that pilots should get something shince now they are losing like ****loads of slots for tank leaving none for tackling while nyx is using meds for points, sensor boosters and **** (tho that was one weak point tbh ^^ )
p.s. - what does FYP stands for ?! :P
Im a wyvern owner and I agree that fighters only would be dumb. Gallente are drone specialized, not all drones but bombers. Let them keep it.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.04 13:47:00 -
[614]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 04/01/2010 13:52:46 About the idea to give Hel bonus to Fighterbomber - hence not give Nyx that same bonus, but instead keep it to regular fighters.
I heard people object to this with base for reason that Gallente always been the BEST Drone-mastering race. However - they are by far the WORST missile-oriented race, and the bonus suggested is to torpedo oriented Fighters - and after Caldari it's Minmatar that handles missiles best. Hence I don't think the suggested idea above is bad, more like the other way around.
Gallente is the overall best civ for capitals, and it's not a coincidence that 4 out of 5 (or something) Motherships is Gallente. It both got a very adaptive carrier and a very good dread, unlike all other races. It got the best bonus to their titans in game after Dominion and the HP-buffs (since most Titans/MS/Dreads/Carriers are armortanked). Minmatar got by far the weakest MS/SC of all, and has no real thing to it's favor unless you count awesome look. It would be just fair to give the Minmatar Engineers the bright idea of making their missile-launching fighters better than even the great Gallente version.
However - this isn't my first choice - that still remain bonus to Fighter Bomber explosion radius (so it hit moving/smaller targets better). Besides that I think each race could get a racial bonus to their fighters/FB's on their Supercarriers, perhaps to their drones also. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.04 14:19:00 -
[615]
Maybe make the Gallente and Amarr FB's use direct fire turret weapons and have the Caldari and Minmitar use missile based weapons, if you want to inject racial traits. That introduces instant damage though and so favors the previous 2. Maybe best to leave it as is.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.04 14:52:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Lee Kin Maybe make the Gallente and Amarr FB's use direct fire turret weapons and have the Caldari and Minmitar use missile based weapons, if you want to inject racial traits. That introduces instant damage though and so favors the previous 2. Maybe best to leave it as is.
I'm not sure if you're thinking out loud or if you imagine you gave an objection that made what I said irrellevant - but if it's the later what you say isn't really that relevant. I think we can be certain that the fighterbombers all will use torpedos, and that's set in stone. However the Hel bonus should really not be set in wet mud even since it sucks so insanely hard. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.04 15:24:00 -
[617]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: Lee Kin Maybe make the Gallente and Amarr FB's use direct fire turret weapons and have the Caldari and Minmitar use missile based weapons, if you want to inject racial traits. That introduces instant damage though and so favors the previous 2. Maybe best to leave it as is.
I'm not sure if you're thinking out loud or if you imagine you gave an objection that made what I said irrellevant - but if it's the later what you say isn't really that relevant. I think we can be certain that the fighterbombers all will use torpedos, and that's set in stone. However the Hel bonus should really not be set in wet mud even since it sucks so insanely hard.
I was just pointing out that since the fb's weapon systems are set in stone, shouldn't the ms's bonuses also be? The hel needs a boost, but not necessarily in the fashion of granting it the main bonus of another race, as in the dps of the gallente race. The minmatar race is sort of a hybrid race with bonuses. Would it not be more fitting to reflect that in giving them half the bonus for dps and half the bonus for shield resists to keep a distinction? Also, since they are(pardon the name)super carriers, give them all the ability to carry full sets of fighters and bombers, with room for spares.No race would build one and skimp on the drone bay ffs. Just saying.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.04 15:30:00 -
[618]
Originally by: Lee Kin Maybe make the Gallente and Amarr FB's use direct fire turret weapons and have the Caldari and Minmitar use missile based weapons, if you want to inject racial traits. That introduces instant damage though and so favors the previous 2. Maybe best to leave it as is.
how we gonna call them ? fighter-snipers ? :)
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.04 15:34:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Lee Kin
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: Lee Kin Maybe make the Gallente and Amarr FB's use direct fire turret weapons and have the Caldari and Minmitar use missile based weapons, if you want to inject racial traits. That introduces instant damage though and so favors the previous 2. Maybe best to leave it as is.
I'm not sure if you're thinking out loud or if you imagine you gave an objection that made what I said irrellevant - but if it's the later what you say isn't really that relevant. I think we can be certain that the fighterbombers all will use torpedos, and that's set in stone. However the Hel bonus should really not be set in wet mud even since it sucks so insanely hard.
I was just pointing out that since the fb's weapon systems are set in stone, shouldn't the ms's bonuses also be? The hel needs a boost, but not necessarily in the fashion of granting it the main bonus of another race, as in the dps of the gallente race. The minmatar race is sort of a hybrid race with bonuses. Would it not be more fitting to reflect that in giving them half the bonus for dps and half the bonus for shield resists to keep a distinction? Also, since they are(pardon the name)super carriers, give them all the ability to carry full sets of fighters and bombers, with room for spares.No race would build one and skimp on the drone bay ffs. Just saying.
The MS's bonuses are obviously not set in stone when it comes to the Hel since pre-Dominion they were (rightfully) changing that. Now they are back with a so far halfarsed suggestion that totally ignores that they remove triage and introduce FB's when they suggest to let Hel keep it's old bonus. An logistics bonus without triage on a supercarrier will need 3-4 Hel's to compete with a Nidhoggur in Triage - that's plain stupid. That's also the reason so many suggest that bonus to change - including youself in last post though you started to say it should be set in stone.
About Dronebay size I agree. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.04 16:15:00 -
[620]
"The MS's bonuses are obviously not set in stone when it comes to the Hel since pre-Dominion they were (rightfully) changing that. Now they are back with a so far halfarsed suggestion that totally ignores that they remove triage and introduce FB's when they suggest to let Hel keep it's old bonus. An logistics bonus without triage on a supercarrier will need 3-4 Hel's to compete with a Nidhoggur in Triage - that's plain stupid. That's also the reason so many suggest that bonus to change - including youself in last post though you started to say it should be set in stone."
Let me make what I said clear. 1:Hel sucks, needs to be changed. 2:Making it the same as another race sucks, don't do it. 3:Stick with minnie traits, give it the split bonus to dps,resists.Speed is minnie trait, but on ms, it's like being the world's tallest midget. 4.Give all of them huge fighter/bomber drone bays. keep racial difference that all classes have so there is a point to having different races. That's about it.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.04 16:43:00 -
[621]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 04/01/2010 16:47:03 Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 04/01/2010 16:43:40
Originally by: LoveKebab
u r obviously a nyx owner, there was no other reason for u to jumping on some1 with an IDEA while have none...
I've posted in this and previous threads on the subject many times. I am sure you can figure out why a fighter-only bonus on any SC is a terrible idea.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.04 17:16:00 -
[622]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 17:22:06 Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 17:19:13
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Splitting a single bonus into two would simply give negligible improvements in both. 5% resists per lvl or 7.5% (maybe even 10%?) fighter/FB max velocity per lvl is the best way to go.
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev you're even dumber than I thought.
i love the irony here... "look at my bombers outrunning their torps - aint that awsome?!" not to mention that fb are actually shooting torpedoes from 50ish km away (and from what i remember compacts got quite nice range) so why exacly do u need faster bombers? (exept it might be easier to manage them while running away)
also what u expect to get resists for ? since bonuses should be unique im pretty sure the only thing that's left for improved resists is structure...
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Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.04 19:36:00 -
[623]
also what u expect to get resists for ? since bonuses should be unique im pretty sure the only thing that's left for improved resists is structure...
Give the hel a bonus to it's shield resistances, less than caldari. Give it a bonus to drone speed or dps, but less than the gallente dps bonus.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.04 20:28:00 -
[624]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 20:31:27
Originally by: Lee Kin Give the hel a bonus to it's shield resistances, less than caldari. Give it a bonus to drone speed or dps, but less than the gallente dps bonus.
omfg, did the word BALANCE crossed ur mind at any point ?
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Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.04 20:51:00 -
[625]
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 04/01/2010 20:31:27
Originally by: Lee Kin Give the hel a bonus to it's shield resistances, less than caldari. Give it a bonus to drone speed or dps, but less than the gallente dps bonus.
omfg, did the word BALANCE crossed ur mind at any point ?
Yes, it did. You can balance it with percentages. Would a drone speed bonus really help it ? Not really. Doing 2 things decently but being the best at neither kinda sounds minmatarish.I don't fly that race and doesn't freak me out as overpowered, just different.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.04 22:21:00 -
[626]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 04/01/2010 22:23:11
Originally by: Zarch AlDain Edited by: Zarch AlDain on 03/01/2010 23:26:37 Three suggestions:
ONE: Don't forget the orbit range of the bombers can be tweaked for different types of bombers. This gives another dimension for balancing in and players a choice to make between damage and survivability.
i.e. Gallente: least range (5k), most damage (10k) Caldari: mid range (7k), mid damage (8k) Amarr: mid range (8k), mid damage (7k) Minmatar: most range (10k), least damage (6k)
Go after more than one capital and the orbit advantage is negated, rendering the large-orbit figbees useless. If Ned's posts are right and the figbees can hit from 68k out, then manually Attack/Returning them is probably the best bet. It's no worse than manually cycling guns on a dreadnought ... it would make using them painful in a high-lag situation, but most things are.
Also, I somehow think giving the Nyx a damage bonus to just fighters will quickly place it on the same level as people consider the Hel Mk II, if not worse. Why precisely should one field an anticapital supercap that lacks a bonus to the anticapital weapons with significantly less tank than the other two without such bonus when you can do the same fighter thing with two carriers? Isn't the lack of damage without proper compensation the reason people want the Hel's bonus changed?
I don't know what would fix the Hel, unfortunately ._.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.04 23:03:00 -
[627]
+20% verticalness per level obviously :D The Light in the Darkness
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.04 23:58:00 -
[628]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 05/01/2010 00:00:15
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Also, I somehow think giving the Nyx a damage bonus to just fighters will quickly place it on the same level as people consider the Hel Mk II, if not worse. Why precisely should one field an anticapital supercap that lacks a bonus to the anticapital weapons with significantly less tank than the other two without such bonus when you can do the same fighter thing with two carriers? Isn't the lack of damage without proper compensation the reason people want the Hel's bonus changed?
i agree ^^
if Nyx would stay with dmg bonus for fighters only it still would have substantially more dps when it comes to fighting support ships such as cruisers, bc or bs and still would have an advantage over Hel but this time not cuz of dps from bombers but cuz of huge armor buffer
when ccp gonna change hp of motherships they will be no longer fitted with dual reps (armor tanking moms) but with buffer tank which means that Hel gonna have the weakest buffer tank of them all as it is shield tanked
there is no set that gives bonus to shield amount and without additional resists (which btw i dont want since it would be just Wyvern for minmatar and that's pretty dumb) its gonna have by far the worst ehp of all motherships :)
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.05 00:37:00 -
[629]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 05/01/2010 00:45:30
Originally by: LoveKebab also what u expect to get resists for ? since bonuses should be unique im pretty sure the only thing that's left for improved resists is structure...
Sorry I was not clear. resists were for fighters/bombers not the ship. 33% effective ehp increase and if you actually do manage to lock one of your own before it dies, will help with keeping it alive. Given the PITA and cost of replacing FBs and if you lose a full or majority of a flight you're SOL due to not being able to carry near a full set of replacements (hel can carry 29 FBs plus regular drones) FB survivability bonus is not a bad way to go. In the same line of thought Hel could simply get 10% fighter/FB HP per lvl bonus. Loses the increased "FB tanking" but more EHP.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 01:35:00 -
[630]
About Hel bonus again, a summary from what I've seen and recall atm.
Pre-Dominion 1.0 - CCP decides to change Hel bonus due to MS change to SC and this ships getting new bonus.
SUGGESTION 1: More HP or Resist (don't recall) to FB's
SUGGESTION 2 (was on SiSi later): FB's explosion Radius bonus
After this CCP withdraws with motivation that they don't like what's on the table and that SC's don't get a clear enough role but instead blur in to much between Dreads and Carriers.
Dominion 1.0 is launched.
CCP comes back after some weeks of silence about the SC's and has rolled back changes so much that Hel even got to keep it's old bonus. CCP themself commented this as the playerbase "might feel that this is a bit MEH", and that seems to be the understatement of the year.
It seems clear on last pages (as well as here and there through this thread) that playerbase indeed feels Hel got to little attention, and many with me seems to think it's rather stupid to remove triage and keep the logistics bonus at same time as they get the new role as capital-killers. So, some more suggestions been made.
SUGGESTION 3: FB speed bonus.
SUGGESTION 4: FB damage bonus (like Gallente, or instead of Gallente)
SUGGESTION 5: Shield Resist Bonus (like Caldari, or in combination with suggestion 4 split two ways)
To remember here is that Hel is the weakest MS/SC by far when concidering both tank and damage abilitys together, and will so continue to be it seems. The only thing that could make this ship gain some respect (besides it looks) among the other SC's is it's race-specific bonus.
Since FB is SC's new thing I can't think of anything better than to give it sharper teeths, so it get better damage to compensate for weak skin and short e-peen. Give it a hard-on to match Gallente so we got two races that tanks better and two races that make better damage.
My personal choice: My choice would be still your second choice on SiSi, the fighter Bomber explosion speed (suggestion 2) so it hit moving/smaller targets better (or 3% to both explosion radius and damage). Second best might be to split bonus to 3% Shield Resist (as Caldari) and 3% Damage to Fighters/FB's (as Gallente) - this said to give it a bonus to match them in effectivity, or at least get closer to it. Then it at least wouldn't be the worst tanker by far and also have some extra dps to the other supertankers.
Even a target painter bonus would be better than the old logistics one - for the love of God CCP - change it. And a lifesign in this thread would be nice also. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:20:00 -
[631]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 05/01/2010 02:26:44
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 05/01/2010 00:00:15
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Also, I somehow think giving the Nyx a damage bonus to just fighters will quickly place it on the same level as people consider the Hel Mk II, if not worse. Why precisely should one field an anticapital supercap that lacks a bonus to the anticapital weapons with significantly less tank than the other two without such bonus when you can do the same fighter thing with two carriers? Isn't the lack of damage without proper compensation the reason people want the Hel's bonus changed?
i agree ^^
I'm guessing the only part of that you actually agree with/didn't ignore is the last sentence. Otherwise you wouldn't immediately turn around and continue touting your fighter-only nyx bonus.
I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it's because of bad writing on my part - upon rereading my quote, it could be a bit confusing :)
What you suggest is to make the Nyx the premier subcapital killer among the supercarriers at the expense of its ability to attack capitals. This is a terribad idea. Any subcapital support role that could be performed by one Nyx could be performed better by two carriers - heck, you get more reps that way. You could argue that you'd use it against support in a capfight - again, two carriers for the same amount of fighters are much cheaper (and insurable).
The reason people are trying to find a good bonus for the Hel is to make it useful on the capital battlefield. Neither the Aeon nor the Wyvern have damage bonuses, it's true, but they have much better tanks to compensate. The Nyx doesn't tank as well, but does more damage to capitals to compensate. The Hel needs a bonus of some sort to improve its effectiveness against capitals to fulfill the role given it, it's true, but giving it the Nyx's damage bonus and removing the Nyx's advantage against capitals will make the Nyx just as undesirable a supercarrier as the new Hel seems to be.
Again, I have no idea what that bonus should be - the explosion radius bonus to the citadel torp could have been interesting, but as far as I know now no anticapital weapon will have any problems hitting capitals with the changes. I do know that making the Hel a Nyx while making the Nyx two Thanatoses (Thanati?) duct-taped together is not the solution. Maybe swapping bonuses and fitting around so you have a tank and gank mom for shield and armor would be good? ... I dunno.
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Xing Fey
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:54:00 -
[632]
^It'd be like a rocket-phoenix....
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:56:00 -
[633]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 05/01/2010 02:59:18
Originally by: ByFstugan
My personal choice: My choice would be still your second choice on SiSi, the fighter Bomber explosion speed (suggestion 2) so it hit moving/smaller targets better (or 3% to both explosion radius and damage). Second best might be to split bonus to 3% Shield Resist (as Caldari) and 3% Damage to Fighters/FB's (as Gallente)
The explosion speed idea really only helps with carriers/supercaps and subcaps. As dreads *will* be the main target (by far) in the capital arena, exp vel. bonus helps them against capitals only marginally and certainly less than the Nyx's bonus, which helps against all capitals equally. Given that even with an exp vel. bonus they will still be quite poor against subcaps (which shouldn't be a focus for them, anyways), I have to disagree with you on the value of such a bonus. I *DO* agree that their bonus should not be in personal defense, but offense-oriented via bonus to fighters/FBs. Straight up damage bonus is already taken and as I explained above I really do not thing exp rad or velocity bonus would make much sense. As for your second option, I personally do not think split bonuses will give enough of an increase to either Hel survivability or damage to make a worthwhile difference in either department. It's a "jack of all trades" thing but unfortunately EVE tends to heavily fabor the masters, not the jacks.
Significant increase to FB survivability equals less dead FBs, which means lower PITA and cost of ownership as well as significantly decreased likelihood of ending up in a situation where you dont even have a full 20 FBs to field. It isn't an increase in your ability to do damage, but it IS an increase in your ability to do damage over the whole of a capital engagement.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 03:37:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 05/01/2010 02:59:18
Originally by: ByFstugan
My personal choice: My choice would be still your second choice on SiSi, the fighter Bomber explosion speed (suggestion 2) so it hit moving/smaller targets better (or 3% to both explosion radius and damage). Second best might be to split bonus to 3% Shield Resist (as Caldari) and 3% Damage to Fighters/FB's (as Gallente)
The explosion speed idea really only helps with carriers/supercaps and subcaps. As dreads *will* be the main target (by far) in the capital arena, exp vel. bonus helps them against capitals only marginally and certainly less than the Nyx's bonus, which helps against all capitals equally. Given that even with an exp vel. bonus they will still be quite poor against subcaps (which shouldn't be a focus for them, anyways), I have to disagree with you on the value of such a bonus. I *DO* agree that their bonus should not be in personal defense, but offense-oriented via bonus to fighters/FBs. Straight up damage bonus is already taken and as I explained above I really do not thing exp rad or velocity bonus would make much sense. As for your second option, I personally do not think split bonuses will give enough of an increase to either Hel survivability or damage to make a worthwhile difference in either department. It's a "jack of all trades" thing but unfortunately EVE tends to heavily fabor the masters, not the jacks.
Significant increase to FB survivability equals less dead FBs, which means lower PITA and cost of ownership as well as significantly decreased likelihood of ending up in a situation where you dont even have a full 20 FBs to field. It isn't an increase in your ability to do damage, but it IS an increase in your ability to do damage over the whole of a capital engagement.
I agree that the main-targets mostly will be Dreads, who most likelly are in siege and not moving (besides those that bounced and not yet stopped), and that's an important point you have there. I just feel that extra life to FB's is a boring bonus say the least, and it doesn't make Minmatar SC master of anything noticable really mostly.
The bonus could be changed to ROF-bonus instead (not unheard of on Minmatar ships either) and be a unique damagebonus for Minmatar SC. But I still kinda like the explosion velocity bonus, and when U get a chance to kill another supercarrier, or perhaps even a Titan, this will be noticed.
I'm not totally against Hel having a personal defense bonus as long as some extra percentage is thrown in, that meaning 3% per level instead of 2,5%. It still will be the weakest SC so it's nothing strange to it really.
So my new suggestions would be in this order:
1) 3% to FB explosion radius AND rate of fire
2) 5% to FB rate of fire
3) 3% to Shield resistance (on ship) AND 3% to FB rate of fire
To get 15% unstacked bonus to tank EHP should be noticable, as well as 15% extra damage to 20 FB's (that's like 3 extra invisible ones). It might be less likelly to give Minmatar the #3 bonus, but if I could choose what I'd have if I build my Hel I think it would be that one. However the #1 or #2 might be more appropiate. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 04:03:00 -
[635]
This is suggestions to how the bonuses could be on the Supercarriers after Dominion 1.1.
The thought is to do a complete work and not only remove triage, but all logistics. As a change I put some racial gang bonuses and the logistics is henceforth only applied to regular carriers. The Fighter Range here also include bonus to drones so this drone-fighting-behemoth doesn't get T-rex arms when fighting with regular drones.
The Minmatar SC got it's bonus changed due to a breakthrough the Minmatar engineers did during the christmasholidays that CCP wasn't aware of before. Minmatars best engineers on their missile research labs had a couple of eureka ideas that we now see coming to public knowledge. This are great times that's not "meh" to Minmatar pilots ^^
Remove Bonus to all races: - Can fit Clone Vat Bay - Can fit Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules - 50% bonus to Capital Shield/Armor/Energy transfer range per level
Role Bonus to all races: - 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules - Can fit Projected Electronic Counter Measures - 200% bonus to Fighter and Drone control range - Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Carrier skill bonus to all races: - Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level - Can deploy 3 additional Fighters/Fighter Bombers per level
Minmatar Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 3% to Fighter Bomber torpedoes explosion radius and rate of fire per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links per level
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to deployed Fighters/Fighter Bombers damage per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links per level
Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
Besides that it would maybe be nice to have another racial bonus: - x% bonus to deployed Racial Drones/Fighters/Fighter Bombers damage per level _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 06:00:00 -
[636]
Originally by: LoveKebab To fix the Hel we break the Nyx.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.05 06:11:00 -
[637]
Hate to admit it but removing the remote rep range would reduce the gayness that a MS blob will be but you can only have so many warfare links in a fleet before they become redundant. I really wouldnt want to see my reps removed.
I would love to see the bombers actually on sisi :)
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 06:54:00 -
[638]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Hate to admit it but removing the remote rep range would reduce the gayness that a MS blob will be but you can only have so many warfare links in a fleet before they become redundant. I really wouldnt want to see my reps removed.
I would love to see the bombers actually on sisi :)
I thought about it and changed my post to include that still and added a suggestion to give those module a passive bonus that makes them at least half as effective as a triaged version. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.05 07:59:00 -
[639]
One quick note about ROF bonuses - remember that each percentage point of ROF results in a greater damage boost than each percentage point of damage. I did some really quick calcs (below, to lol at my failmath) and 3% ROF is equivalent to 5% damage as far as DPS is concerned :p
(failmath: Nyx: 20 dmg/shot * 1.25 dmg/shot = 25 dmg/shot ˜ 3/(1.00) {3.00} sec refire = 7.667 dps Hel: 20 dmg/shot * 1.00 dmg/shot = 20 dmg/shot ˜ 3/(1.15) {2.61} sec refire = 7.667 dps)
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:05:00 -
[640]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, but that bonus for Gallente is worthless. The info gang links are used less than 1% of the time for a reason, it is a horrible set of bonuses. Maybe they could change that to something worth fitting and then it would be cool.
Again I am not saying that overall the 5% to the racial gang links is bad, its just for the Nyx, it would not mean a thing. Now if they changed the Info links to drone related bonuses... then we would be on to something...
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:19:00 -
[641]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 05/01/2010 00:56:14
Originally by: LoveKebab also what u expect to get resists for ? since bonuses should be unique im pretty sure the only thing that's left for improved resists is structure...
Sorry I was not clear. resists were for fighters/bombers not the ship. 33% effective ehp increase and if you actually do manage to lock one of your FBs before it dies, will help with keeping it alive. Given the PITA and cost of replacing FBs and if you lose a full or majority of a flight you're SOL due to not being able to carry near a full set of replacements (hel can carry 29 FBs plus regular drones) FB survivability bonus is not a bad way to go. In the same line of thought Hel could simply get 10% fighter/FB HP per lvl bonus. Loses the increased "FB tanking" but more EHP.
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 05/01/2010 00:00:15
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Also, I somehow think giving the Nyx a damage bonus to just fighters will quickly place it on the same level as people consider the Hel Mk II, if not worse. Why precisely should one field an anticapital supercap that lacks a bonus to the anticapital weapons with significantly less tank than the other two without such bonus when you can do the same fighter thing with two carriers? Isn't the lack of damage without proper compensation the reason people want the Hel's bonus changed?
i agree ^^
I'm guessing the only part of that you actually agree with/didn't ignore is the last sentence. Otherwise you wouldn't immediately turn around and continue touting your fighter-only nyx bonus.
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:32:00 -
[642]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 05/01/2010 08:32:00 dubble post ;x
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Xue Slick
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:43:00 -
[643]
Edited by: Xue Slick on 05/01/2010 08:43:45
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 05/01/2010 08:09:08
Originally by: ByFstugan
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, but that bonus for Gallente is worthless. The info gang links are used less than 1% of the time for a reason, it is a horrible set of bonuses. Maybe they could change that to something worth fitting and then it would be cool.
Again I am not saying that overall the 5% to the racial gang links is bad, its just for the Nyx, it would not mean a thing. Now if they changed the Info links to drone related bonuses... then we would be on to something...
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin One quick note about ROF bonuses - (stuff using math)
This is true. I would prefer to see one bonus instead of a split bonus as well. Maybe better explosion velocity? Then again, if a SC is supposed to be a cap killer, how does an explosion velocity bonus help that much? Against smaller non-cap stuff yes, but is that a direction we want the Hel to go? I am impartial either way tbh.
How about not making it 5% but 7.5% per level, like the Titans have as a bonus. As Ed said, there is no real incentive to use warefare links on super carriers. Maybe make them the premier fleet bonus givers?
Also, just throwing this out there, what about looking at a local rep bonus per level for the hel? Might be something that could be looked at?
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.05 10:29:00 -
[644]
How about not turning my MS into a capital version of one of the least flown ships in eve?
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.05 11:22:00 -
[645]
Originally by: LoveKebab
i proposed EHP bonus couple pages back as it was one of the ideas behind the original changes but had no feedback from a dev :( tho this change seems reasonable as a counterpart to dps bonus - either this one or that one :)
Well at least we agree on something.
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Mendolorian Girl
Caldari Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 12:38:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 05/01/2010 08:09:08
Originally by: ByFstugan
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, but that bonus for Gallente is worthless. The info gang links are used less than 1% of the time for a reason, it is a horrible set of bonuses. Maybe they could change that to something worth fitting and then it would be cool.
Again I am not saying that overall the 5% to the racial gang links is bad, its just for the Nyx, it would not mean a thing. Now if they changed the Info links to drone related bonuses... then we would be on to something...
totally disagree.. 40% bonus to sensor strength on every ship in your wing/fleet is pretty darn useful, and the jam strength/range links make armor scorps considerably more potent. If Tri doesn't use ewar very much that's one thing, but don't project that onto others :)
It would be a major pain in the arse for me to retrain my toons for links, but overall I think it would be a great improvement.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 14:58:00 -
[647]
Originally by: Mendolorian Girl
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 05/01/2010 08:09:08
Originally by: ByFstugan
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, but that bonus for Gallente is worthless. The info gang links are used less than 1% of the time for a reason, it is a horrible set of bonuses. Maybe they could change that to something worth fitting and then it would be cool.
Again I am not saying that overall the 5% to the racial gang links is bad, its just for the Nyx, it would not mean a thing. Now if they changed the Info links to drone related bonuses... then we would be on to something...
totally disagree.. 40% bonus to sensor strength on every ship in your wing/fleet is pretty darn useful, and the jam strength/range links make armor scorps considerably more potent. If Tri doesn't use ewar very much that's one thing, but don't project that onto others :)
It would be a major pain in the arse for me to retrain my toons for links, but overall I think it would be a great improvement.
Both may have points here but doesn't really matter since Nyx since long been the most popular MS due to their damagebonus - and when they get SC's that's unlikelly to change. Even with the worst leadership boost the Nyx will be the most popular SC a long time or forever.
So - when thinking about it this kinda leadership boost could accually be a way of even out the SC's to eachother so more of them get reasons to get. Will not make an insane difference though since it will be the EW-immune EHP monster with FB's that will attract most buyers of this ships. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
davet517
Raata Invicti Undivided
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Posted - 2010.01.05 15:57:00 -
[648]
Edited by: davet517 on 05/01/2010 16:04:30
First of all, thank you for doing whatever you needed to do internally to get this back on track. My comments:
1. Wyvern should do the same DPS with Figher-Bombers (only) as the Nyx. Yes, they're drones, but they're firing torpedos.
2. The shield boost/recharge and implant imbalance for shield tankers needs to be addressed. Right now, one kind of tanking is widely considered to be superior to the other, and that should not be the case.
3. Add the ability on POSes to set the access on a capital ship maint array to "Private" with a character name, and allow the specified character to set/reset a password on it.
4. The orbit radius on fighter-bombers should be pilot configurable, up to the max range of a citadel torp. Yes, I know that on paper they should be balanced against officer smarties, but we don't play on paper. We often play in impossibly laggy situations where recalling them is not possible, and in those situations they shouldn't die to "set and forget" weapons that keep firing when nobody has module control. These are large, expensive weapons that should be actively targeted, tackled and killed for the most part, not AOE killed en masse.
---------------- We're recruiting quality players. Check us out. |
Ardetia
The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 16:22:00 -
[649]
Originally by: davet517
4. The orbit radius on fighter-bombers should be pilot configurable, up to the max range of a citadel torp. Yes, I know that on paper they should be balanced against officer smarties, but we don't play on paper. We often play in impossibly laggy situations where recalling them is not possible, and in those situations they shouldn't die to "set and forget" weapons that keep firing when nobody has module control. These are large, expensive weapons that should be actively targeted, tackled and killed for the most part, not AOE killed en masse.
completely agree.. set and forget is not a weapon at all but, im gonna go ahead and say that ccp doesnt make features based on that "there will be lag" even though its something thats probably gonna be in eve to the bitter end
The Flying Tigers are recruiting! |
iudex
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Posted - 2010.01.05 16:55:00 -
[650]
Hey CCP, I lost track of what your latest plans for MS are, but they must be bad: Can't sell a ME:1 Aeon BPC for below 580mil for a week now (getting undercut). When you made the first change announcement few months ago, the prices for this kind of BPCs went to above 1 bil. It seemed like people actually planned to build and use this ship, which isn't the case anymore, the demand for MS BPC dropped down again. Please rethink your plans and improve this ship type a compared to the current draft. The type of MS that you are currently planning isn't going to be built/used much (otherwise the demand and price for BPCs would rise again). _____________________________________________________ My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00 |
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0nline
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2010.01.05 17:15:00 -
[651]
Originally by: iudex Hey CCP, I lost track of what your latest plans for MS are, but they must be bad: Can't sell a ME:1 Aeon BPC for below 580mil for a week now (getting undercut). When you made the first change announcement few months ago, the prices for this kind of BPCs went to above 1 bil. It seemed like people actually planned to build and use this ship, which isn't the case anymore, the demand for MS BPC dropped down again. Please rethink your plans and improve this ship type a compared to the current draft. The type of MS that you are currently planning isn't going to be built/used much (otherwise the demand and price for BPCs would rise again).
I think it actually be more related to the fact that people no longer trust CCP in terms of purposed changes to ships after CCP Nozh went and nerfed the whole thing last time people are not getting their hopes up as much and just waiting to see what happens.
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.01.05 19:52:00 -
[652]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level - 50% bonus to Capital Shield/Energy transfer range per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
Besides that it would maybe be nice to have another racial bonus: - x% bonus to deployed Racial Drones/Fighters/Fighter Bombers damage per level
You're still making the Wyvern worthless other than a tank. if you're going to suggest offensive boni per race it should be across the board- your suggestions offer none for the Wyvern even though FB use torps?
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SATAN
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2010.01.05 19:58:00 -
[653]
So Nozh, or Selene, or Abathur whom ever you are.
Does the new build on Sisi with all the MS changes back to pre buff days mean this whole thing is scrapped again?
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 20:03:00 -
[654]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 05/01/2010 20:03:18
Originally by: SATAN So Nozh, or Selene, or Abathur whom ever you are.
Does the new build on Sisi with all the MS changes back to pre buff days mean this whole thing is scrapped again?
I'm assuming it was reverted back due to the "hunting the lag monster" mass test they did today. If not, what the ****. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 20:55:00 -
[655]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 05/01/2010 20:58:30
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: ByFstugan
Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses: - 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level - 50% bonus to Capital Shield/Energy transfer range per level - 5% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
Besides that it would maybe be nice to have another racial bonus: - x% bonus to deployed Racial Drones/Fighters/Fighter Bombers damage per level
You're still making the Wyvern worthless other than a tank. if you're going to suggest offensive boni per race it should be across the board- your suggestions offer none for the Wyvern even though FB use torps?
First of all we gotta realize that SC's will be ships with high EHP (after HP-buff) and high damage (after Fighter Bombers are added) - and this is true for all of them even without racial bonuses.
Watching the past and present suggestion Amarr/Caldari has had extra high EHP, and this will be even more effective after Dominion 1.1. The suggestion to add the racial gang-bonuses to this ships will also help fleet on same area since they can give extra resists a bit better than other ships.
Besides that Gallente has had the extra damage, and will so continue to have. This makes this ship the most popular MS, and will most likelly continue to be that after Dominion 1.1. Hence the least intresting gangbonus suits this nasty damagedealer.
The only broken ship here is Minmatars with a logistics bonus that nobody wanted before, and is even more broken after removal of triage. Hence the suggestion is to make Minmatar SC to get more damage bonus so we have two SC's with more tank and two SC's with more damage. To give this ship that has less base shield, much less base resists and one less midslot to fit tank with than the Wyvern some extra damage is not at all unfair due to this context. What would be insanely unfair would be to give it a stupid logistics bonus as CCP suggested so far.
I think Caldari (and Amarr) can be happy that it is like this in a way - since no FC in their right mind will primary a better tanked/less damage dealing Aeon before a more damage dealing/weaker tanked Nyx. And same would of course go for Wyvern vs Hel if the later get a damagebonus also. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 21:51:00 -
[656]
the Devs said the reason why it HAS to be torps for fighterbombers and not a suped up turret weapon was due to turret weapons being more effective against smaller ships like BS and there not being an easy way of differentiating the damage able to be delt onto BS vs Caps. the explosion Radius on missiles can effectively do this- a BS taking something like 20% of the damage from bombers compaired to caps.
all sorts of bizarro tracking and sig radius penalties, orbit speed and other factors would come into effect in making fighterZappers.
I like the buffed version of motherships. an ROF bonus to fighters and fighterbombers would be pretty crazy and spammy, but i quite like the idea of it :) I dont like the extra use of gang bonuses on supercarriers. If they are going to be supercarriers which are going to be used offensively I think the added gangbonuses would go to waste, its still going to be titans giving out big HP buffs and people in dedicated commandships running actual links. I cant see any way id want to fit anymore than 1 link at the most on a supercarrier in precious highslots when a commandship can be full of them insted.
There are already gangmod bonus ships out there. |
Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.01.05 23:35:00 -
[657]
Boosting command links racialy is the way to go! It gives SC a more unique role that is currently lacking, and both FCs and fleet members alike would look at us more favorably since we're giving them bonuses in return for supporting us.
10% per level is more worthwhile though...
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.06 00:39:00 -
[658]
Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.01.06 00:57:00 -
[659]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
The ship needs to be more than a ship that does 2x dread damage from destroyable fighters. FCs will just say take 3 dreads instead of 1 SC and 3 triage carriers. That's a problem.
If a bonus to command links helps persuade FCs and fleet members to include us more and stop saying "WTF get out of fleet" then that's what I want.
It doesn't hurt get a bonus to command links within this design. It's still up to the pilot to use them. And if command link bonuses arn't what you like...provide a better suggestion.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.06 01:06:00 -
[660]
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 06/01/2010 01:06:52
Originally by: Soleil Fournier
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
The ship needs to be more than a ship that does 2x dread damage from destroyable fighters. FCs will just say take 3 dreads instead of 1 SC and 3 triage carriers. That's a problem.
If a bonus to command links helps persuade FCs and fleet members to include us more and stop saying "WTF get out of fleet" then that's what I want.
It doesn't hurt get a bonus to command links within this design. It's still up to the pilot to use them. And if command link bonuses arn't what you like...provide a better suggestion.
Only dumb ones will. Its does 2x the damage of a dread(that is close range fit) has the HP of a large pos, is ewar immune, can remote rep circlejerk, Remote ECM burst(Enough of these really **** a hostile fleet), and can deploy alongside even JDCV dreads going to their max jump range unlike titans. A few carriers or even a few motherships makes these nearly unkillable sans extreme lag.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.06 03:27:00 -
[661]
Posting to say, that I don't think the supercarriers should become big command ships, they have had their +1 warfare link per level bonus removed already.
I think this is a pretty big clue that CCP do not want motherships to become another massive command ship.
We already have battlecruisers, command ships, T3 cruisers, Carriers and Titans that can fit them in addition to motherships(supercarriers).
These different hulls all use the same warfare links too, so the only variety between these existing hulls is the size of the ship, how many links they can fit, and how effective the links are.
The only real ship in the supercarrier line that doesn't have a final bonus is the Hel and that needs to be an offensive bonus or something to do with minmatar flexibility, the other ships look set in stone for the most part.
I guess what i'm trying to say, is that before we shoehorn this ship class into another gang bonus ship, why don't we consider the fact that we can instead make an entirely new ship class to do that.
For example a T2 carrier (There was previously a news post about a newly built NPC command carrier, think it belonged to the mordu's legion).
Lets just leave these supercarriers as offensive Anti - Capital ship weapons, and forget the extra gang bonuses please. The Light in the Darkness
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.06 03:39:00 -
[662]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
Well, there are quite a difference in EHP between a BC-sized Command Ship and a XL Carrier with massive HP-buff to begin with. The reason MS's been POS-huggers isn't that it could fit ganglinks earlier - it's that they were far to easy killed in todays version of EVE.
I'm rather sure most MS pilots have been longing for taking this ships to the Battlefields, but until now (after Dominion 1.1 kicks in) it's been plain stupid to risk this ships on the field. But from now on they will be shown there, and the pilots that trained them will not need to hide in any POS, more less will they want to :)
To Compare Command Ships and Dominion 1.1 SC's is useless, and it simply wouldn't make an SC-pilot not wanna use their Fighter Bombers - that still will be it's main thing even if it could get some extra bonuses to some ganglink that might be fitted. So in same way the old POSSIBILITY to fit gangmods wasn't the reason they were POS-huggers they will not become that after Dominion 1.1 due to the POSSIBILITY to fit gangmods with extra percental boost. They will instead due to massive EHP and Fighter Bombers be on the Battlefield henceforth.
Don't confuse what's the reason of something and what's an sideissue.
Originally by: Kraken Kill I dont like the extra use of gang bonuses on supercarriers. If they are going to be supercarriers which are going to be used offensively I think the added gangbonuses would go to waste, its still going to be titans giving out big HP buffs and people in dedicated commandships running actual links. I cant see any way id want to fit anymore than 1 link at the most on a supercarrier in precious highslots when a commandship can be full of them insted.
There are already gangmod bonus ships out there.
The Titans indeed are a special kind of gangbooster, but they got their own bonuses that's passive and no extra bonuses to warfare links.
The miners have their smaller ship with 3% bonus and a Capital version that gives 5% bonus per level to mining-links. There is no such alternative to the warfare links, and that's what suggested here.
However - the SC's main task will never be gang-boosters, but capital-killers and e-peens for the extra rich. So it's just an alternative for those who want to deliver some gangbonuses they might have trained - not something that's likelly to be main purpose in any way.
Perhaps mostly this bonuses will go to waste (as you say), as many bonuses are on other ships also, but this would just open an alternative to do something a littlebit better that's free to use or not for every pilot. It would effect your personal way of using your Hel like zero unless U fit a gangmod of skirmishtype, then it would boost your function there somewhat. It's however nothing that ruins anything, just might reinforce something slightly.
I do however think that would make Aeons and Wyverns to get a small extra edge when they with one highslot can give 51 or 255 pilots more tank in same way as they are a couple of the best tankers in game. This would make them more intresting compared to the Nyx with it's extra damage (that hopefully also is given the Hel in a good way).
So in all - it ruins nothing, just opens a door to do something very narrow (since it's race based) slightly better for those who might want to. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.06 04:09:00 -
[663]
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 06/01/2010 04:14:22 Congrats Atlas dude you argued a point I didnt make. I never said the reason current MS are in danger was because of command mods. They are even retaining their ability to use them in the expansion. Read earlier in the thread to see I fully understand why they are not acceptable without the EHP buff this thread puts forth.
Originally by: SolarKnight Posting to say, that I don't think the supercarriers should become big command ships, they have had their +1 warfare link per level bonus removed already.
I think this is a pretty big clue that CCP do not want motherships to become another massive command ship.
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
ò Fighter Bombers ò Hit Point boost ò Jump Range increase ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
Please read the above quote carefully, the gang link +1 per level is not being removed, the MS simply does not receive a bonus to their use just as they currently do not. I do not believe MS would gain much by having this bonus as it would very likely cost them an existing bonus.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.06 05:00:00 -
[664]
I was actually referring to the link here:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=696
Where in Abathur's original changes, the +1 gang link per level bonus is being removed.
I figured that the original changes were the changes going through, maybe CCP would like to C/D this? The Light in the Darkness
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.06 05:01:00 -
[665]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 06/01/2010 04:14:22 Congrats Atlas dude you argued a point I didnt make. I never said the reason current MS are in danger was because of command mods. They are even retaining their ability to use them in the expansion. Read earlier in the thread to see I fully understand why they are not acceptable without the EHP buff this thread puts forth.
You compared the SC (if it got some gangbonuses to warfare links) with a Command Ship and made a point out of them being useless on the battlefield - then warned us/me for trying to make this ship a POS-hugging supercapital command ship.
I just pointed out they will not be due to the EHP-buff and the Fighter Bombers and that a small possibility to get some extra leadership boost on racial ganglinks won't change that at all.
If I misunderstood you, plz explain how the suggestion with some gangbonuses to racial links risks SC's to turn into POS-huggers. What pushes them into POS's that you have in mind?
I did however not say you opposed to the EHP-buff, and I think one need to be very slow in the head to oppose to that - much like in the same level as to propose to keep the old bonus to the Hel after Dominion 1.1. Which neither you or me suggested - just saying ^^ _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.06 05:11:00 -
[666]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 06/01/2010 05:14:02
Originally by: SolarKnight I was actually referring to the link here:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=696
Where in Abathur's original changes, the +1 gang link per level bonus is being removed.
I figured that the original changes were the changes going through, maybe CCP would like to C/D this?
Much has happened back and forth since then, and those ain't the present suggestion, it's the one EdFromHumanResources pasted to you in post #660. Between this and the one you posted they got and lost the ability to dock and got reduced build cost by 40% and back again (besides the CVB that goes and cuts 1B+ from buildcost). They got drones reduced to 2 per level and then back up to 3 again. And the Hel bonus was tried to be made intresting, and back to square one again and then another square back to minus one since it looses triage (logistics turbo) and keeps a puny logistics bonus. I don't even recall all that's happened, but since start of this thread all that's been it's just memorys not very important to remember.
Many off us wish to hear from CCP in this matter, espcially when it comes to the SC changes - but last weeks there been mostly silence. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.06 05:29:00 -
[667]
Edited by: SolarKnight on 06/01/2010 05:30:15 AFAIK the only SC without a clear role was the Hel, due to the missing bonus.
But being an Anti - capital ship is a decent enough role, it does more DPS then a dread, but the DPS is destructible, which is balanced in theory.
The Light in the Darkness
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.06 06:53:00 -
[668]
Well until they rectify the Implants for Shields vs Armor, the Resistance bonus on the Wyvern is nice but not half as great as for the Aeon. On Sisi The Armor tanks ships can get 2 to 3 times the hp that a Shield Tanker can. Some will say hey but shield tanks regen... Sure they do and when you are taking 300k damage from a dd you wont regen that fast enough. And once that shield goes your done no if ands or butts. Armor ships have that regenning buffer tank called a shield.
Anyways The Hel bonus is definitely an issue, but imo i dunno if id rather a EHP bonus or a Combat bonus.
My Beef with the shield tank comes at the fact that 3 titans dd you and your primary tank is completely gone, after that you drop like a fly and thats in a wyvern not a hel, tho the shield tankers can have a pretty decent active tank. It just boils down to give us an implant set that either increases shield regen or raw hp, and if your worried about mission runners abusing it make it only applicable on capital ships.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2010.01.06 10:08:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Bobbeh Well until they rectify the Implants for Shields vs Armor, the Resistance bonus on the Wyvern is nice but not half as great as for the Aeon. On Sisi The Armor tanks ships can get 2 to 3 times the hp that a Shield Tanker can. Some will say hey but shield tanks regen... Sure they do and when you are taking 300k damage from a dd you wont regen that fast enough. And once that shield goes your done no if ands or butts. Armor ships have that regenning buffer tank called a shield.
Anyways The Hel bonus is definitely an issue, but imo i dunno if id rather a EHP bonus or a Combat bonus.
My Beef with the shield tank comes at the fact that 3 titans dd you and your primary tank is completely gone, after that you drop like a fly and thats in a wyvern not a hel, tho the shield tankers can have a pretty decent active tank. It just boils down to give us an implant set that either increases shield regen or raw hp, and if your worried about mission runners abusing it make it only applicable on capital ships.
or just make the implant set have shield hp bonuses and penalties to shield recharge so that it dosent recharge any faster than normal, but has more hitpoints...
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.06 10:12:00 -
[670]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
or just make the implant set have shield hp bonuses and penalties to shield recharge so that it dosent recharge any faster than normal, but has more hitpoints...
That could definitely work aswell, still tho they will be way more expensive cause they affect CNR's NH's and such
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Mirigua
Fujin Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.01.06 11:18:00 -
[671]
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: RoCkEt X
or just make the implant set have shield hp bonuses and penalties to shield recharge so that it dosent recharge any faster than normal, but has more hitpoints...
That could definitely work aswell, still tho they will be way more expensive cause they affect CNR's NH's and such
They could just make they shield amount bonus be a capital ship only.
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Xue Slick
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Posted - 2010.01.06 11:46:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Mirigua
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: RoCkEt X
or just make the implant set have shield hp bonuses and penalties to shield recharge so that it dosent recharge any faster than normal, but has more hitpoints...
That could definitely work aswell, still tho they will be way more expensive cause they affect CNR's NH's and such
They could just make they shield amount bonus be a capital ship only.
Then while you are at it please also add a passive recharge to Armor and remove the ability for capitals to use shield boost amps.
Then we are balanced. They are balanced as they are. Stop whining about the shield implants.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.06 12:35:00 -
[673]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: Bobbeh Well until they rectify the Implants for Shields vs Armor, the Resistance bonus on the Wyvern is nice but not half as great as for the Aeon. On Sisi The Armor tanks ships can get 2 to 3 times the hp that a Shield Tanker can. Some will say hey but shield tanks regen... Sure they do and when you are taking 300k damage from a dd you wont regen that fast enough. And once that shield goes your done no if ands or butts. Armor ships have that regenning buffer tank called a shield.
Anyways The Hel bonus is definitely an issue, but imo i dunno if id rather a EHP bonus or a Combat bonus.
My Beef with the shield tank comes at the fact that 3 titans dd you and your primary tank is completely gone, after that you drop like a fly and thats in a wyvern not a hel, tho the shield tankers can have a pretty decent active tank. It just boils down to give us an implant set that either increases shield regen or raw hp, and if your worried about mission runners abusing it make it only applicable on capital ships.
or just make the implant set have shield hp bonuses and penalties to shield recharge so that it dosent recharge any faster than normal, but has more hitpoints...
Ya! **** the six weeks it already takes to regen your shields. We should all have carrier fleets on standby to triage us every time we log or do anything.
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Mendolorian Girl
Caldari Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.06 13:30:00 -
[674]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Do any of you routinely fly command ships and think "Man I feel worthwhile being on grid with the massive fleet fight". No? I didn't think so. Please don't campaign to turn MS into pos hugging supercapital command ships.
My Main (obv. not my MS pilot) has 14m in Leadership and 3 out of 4 Racial Cruiser lvl5's so can fly a huge range of ships... and yes, he flies Command ship 95% of the time because I know that giving ~30% extra resists and ~30% extra rep (or whatever other bonuses) to up to 255 other pilots makes it the most important ship in the fleet.
Don't make assumptions about people you have no idea about :).
I think a Capital lvl Command ship would be a great thing and I wouldn't be upset to see the Mothership become that.. however maybe you're right and it would be better that happens as an additional ship or T2 variant.
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Mirigua
Fujin Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.01.06 13:45:00 -
[675]
Originally by: Xue Slick
Originally by: Mirigua
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: RoCkEt X
or just make the implant set have shield hp bonuses and penalties to shield recharge so that it dosent recharge any faster than normal, but has more hitpoints...
That could definitely work aswell, still tho they will be way more expensive cause they affect CNR's NH's and such
They could just make they shield amount bonus be a capital ship only.
Then while you are at it please also add a passive recharge to Armor and remove the ability for capitals to use shield boost amps.
Then we are balanced. They are balanced as they are. Stop whining about the shield implants.
Or maybe they should jsut remove slaves effect from capital ships... Would make them up to date with the crystals then.
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Xue Slick
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Posted - 2010.01.06 14:19:00 -
[676]
Originally by: Mirigua
Originally by: Xue Slick
Originally by: Mirigua
Originally by: Bobbeh
That could definitely work aswell, still tho they will be way more expensive cause they affect CNR's NH's and such
They could just make they shield amount bonus be a capital ship only.
Then while you are at it please also add a passive recharge to Armor and remove the ability for capitals to use shield boost amps.
Then we are balanced. They are balanced as they are. Stop whining about the shield implants.
Or maybe they should jsut remove slaves effect from capital ships... Would make them up to date with the crystals then.
Core Defence Field Extenders == Trimark Armor Pumps Core Defence Field Purger == No rigs for this Core Defence Operational Solidifier == No rigs for this
Shield has a recharge == Armor Doesn't Sheild Boost Amps == Armor has no mod or rig for this
Slave sets equal the difference.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.06 14:36:00 -
[677]
Quote: Core Defence Field Extenders == Trimark Armor Pumps Core Defence Field Purger == No rigs for this Core Defence Operational Solidifier == No rigs for this
Shield has a recharge == Armor Doesn't Sheild Boost Amps == Armor has no mod or rig for this
Slave sets equal the difference.
Yeah bcs all those rigs/mods you listed here realy matter on capitals and super capitals. My shield needs more than 6h to passive recharge my own 37.5% bonus. And as arbathur states in this thread, active boosting on super caps is not recomended. And bcs shield tanked super caps are so uber, you can get 50m ehps on a leviathan while an erebus or an avatar with erebus bonus more than 70m.
Applying a bonus on a bonus just make things inbalanced, when there is no bonus for the other side. ________________________________________________
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davet517
Raata Invicti Undivided
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Posted - 2010.01.06 16:06:00 -
[678]
Edited by: davet517 on 06/01/2010 16:17:56
Originally by: Ardetia
completely agree.. set and forget is not a weapon at all but, im gonna go ahead and say that ccp doesnt make features based on that "there will be lag" even though its something thats probably gonna be in eve to the bitter end
Which is ridiculous, given their stance that lag, excuse me, "spacial distortions" is/are essentially part of the game. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to consider how things are going to balance when everybody's screen is frozen and nobody can do anything.
In that scenario, any system (like a smart bomb) that can cycle forever without user input is going to be overpowered compared to systems (like FBs) that do require user input, and glib answers like "you can just recall them" or "lernz2play wit your dronez n00b" aren't helpful when we're talking about "drones" that are this expensive.
Abathur, if you feel like you must balance these against officer smarties, at least consider making smart-bombs incapable of auto-repeat.
What would be cool, but hard to implement I suppose, would be to have them orbit at a wide range, and then "dive bomb" close in when they were going to launch. That way a bomber gang would have to time it, and wouldn't hit a full rack of them with one volley of bombs.
I still think the best solution is just to have them orbit at up to torp range. If you want to kill something that expensive you should have to target it for the most part. ---------------- We're recruiting quality players. Check us out. |
Kazellis
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Posted - 2010.01.06 16:34:00 -
[679]
Make the orbit range 30+ km, problem solved. No single smartbomb or Bomb attack can kill all of them in one go. Thats fair is it not?
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davet517
Raata Invicti Undivided
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Posted - 2010.01.06 16:35:00 -
[680]
One more thing I'd like to add here, if you're considering nerfing stealth bombers (which it sounds like you are) I think its a mistake. They are the only viable form of asymetrical warfare in the game right now. There should be more of those, not less.
Moar (more isk, more numbers) shouldn't always be better. A hundred man RR BS gang (which doesn't require a whole lot of skill from anyone other than the FC) should be vulnerable to a highly skilled gang of 15 bombers. There should be more of that in the game. Tactics and skilled coordination should be > teh zerg. Beyond a certain size, zerg fleets should be big juicy targets waiting to be picked apart. It would be good for the servers, and good for the game. Keep the bombers, and introduce more things like them. ---------------- We're recruiting quality players. Check us out. |
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LoveKebab
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.01.06 16:44:00 -
[681]
Originally by: Zeveron
And bcs shield tanked super caps are so uber, you can get 50m ehps on a leviathan while an erebus or an avatar with erebus bonus more than 70m.
u can make 74m or so ehp on leviathan NOT overloaded and like 140mil with overload (and that's not with estamel invuls ...)
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.06 19:31:00 -
[682]
Sure LK but you can get the same armor EHP spending half as much isk, and without waiting half as long to find the mods.
Who uses Deadspace/Officer Armor mods = Cap Pilots Pretty Exclusively, maybe the odd Faction BS pilot and such. Who Uses Deadspace/Officer Shield mods = High Sec Mission Runners, Plexer's, Cap pilots.
Originally by: Xue Slick
Core Defence Field Extenders == Trimark Armor Pumps Core Defence Field Purger == No rigs for this Core Defence Operational Solidifier == No rigs for this
Shield has a recharge == Armor Doesn't Sheild Boost Amps == Armor has no mod or rig for this
Slave sets equal the difference.
Ok one sec here let me enlighten you Core Defence Operational Solidifier: This ship modification is designed to reduce the duration of shield booster cycles at the expense of increased signature radius. Nanobot Accelerator: This ship modification is designed to reduce a ship's armor repair cycle duration at the expense of max velocity.
hmmmm they look P.Similar
Auxiliary Nano Pump: This ship modification is designed to increase a ship's armor repairer repair amount at the expense of max velocity. Is Effectively An Armor Amp Rig **Note doesn't work on Cap Mods*
Boost Amp meet Regenerative Plate/ Energized Regenerative Plates One Increases Rep amount one increases the amount of HP by a percent(Shield Tankers don't have that ability out side of rigs) Armor Tanks also have 2 ways to Passively increase their Resistances. Also Their Their Local Reps arent as Fitting expensive (PG and Cpu wise) as Shield Tanks
Finally Lets Not Forget The Evil twin of Shield Mods is Capacitor Mods, some of which specifically prohibit the use of them on a shield tanker due to reducing boost amount or shield HP.
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Jomanda
Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.06 22:21:00 -
[683]
I do not know if it has been asked before, since I have not read all 23 pages, but what has been decided on the dronebay sizes of the SC's? Will they remain the same and/or will there be a fighter/FB bay, separate from the dronebay? |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.06 22:28:00 -
[684]
Originally by: Jomanda I do not know if it has been asked before, since I have not read all 23 pages, but what has been decided on the dronebay sizes of the SC's? Will they remain the same and/or will there be a fighter/FB bay, separate from the dronebay?
I think I've read all, but not sure if I missed somthing. But as far as I heard their plan is to make separate drone bay and fighter bay in order to prevent the silly amount of regular/smaller drones you otherwise could have. From what I recall they have not mentioned any numbers so far - and I'm not sure if they planned to fix this so it's implemented in Dominion 1.1. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.07 01:07:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Bobbeh Sure LK but you can get the same armor EHP spending half as much isk, and without waiting half as long to find the mods.
well if u r ok with having all meds for hardeners and **** u can make 62mil with cn invuls and xtype hardeners :>
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 02:40:00 -
[686]
Edited by: Bobbeh on 07/01/2010 02:47:06
Originally by: LoveKebab
well if u r ok with having all meds for hardeners and **** u can make 62mil with cn invuls and xtype hardeners :>
You denying the fact that Shield mods are much much more expensive than armor mods cause of their application in the missioning plexing side of the game? Edit** Hit enter to soon I personally Love the idea of Cap only implants, it would provide some of the needed balancing and avoid the expenses tacked on with being a shield mod that can be used for missioning and plexing.
With CCP expecting most super caps to be Buffer fit shouldnt those buffers be some what balanced? and Also shouldnt the ability to fit said buffers relatively similar not be price prohibitive.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.07 02:56:00 -
[687]
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 07/01/2010 02:59:00 God you're a bunch of babies. CCP gives you a nice meal on a golden platter but you say **** that you want it on a platinum one with rubies encrusted or its not good enough.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 03:14:00 -
[688]
Not at all Ed, im Happy with what CCP is doing, just discussing something that Was brought up and admitted by the dev's; The Implants situation. If the Changes came out tomorrow i would still fly my Wyvern, and enjoy it as i have been for the last few months.
Im also P.sure that LK isnt unhappy with the changes either, Discussing something that has been mentions as something that needs to be looked at by the Team working on it, Is Constructive and Productive we aren't asking for Platinum and rubies, just brainstorming and using constructive criticism produce better ideas.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.07 03:33:00 -
[689]
I'm not talking about the folks discussing EHP and implants, thats all well and logical and even the devs have admitted they will look at it. Im talking about these campaigns for alternate MS changes people should have made a year ago when they started considering ideas.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 03:47:00 -
[690]
Pith x-type em hardener = 500mill.
Core x-type explosive hardener = 450mill.
Caldari navy invul = 370mill.
Centum a-type EANM = 465mill.
I fail to see why shield mods are more expensive than armor
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 03:59:00 -
[691]
Well said Apol I revoke my point its been a while since i looked at armor mods. Last i checked they werent that expensive :P Maybe it has to do with Dominion and all the armor tanking supercap pilots wanting mods
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Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.07 05:49:00 -
[692]
So the people who want it perfectly even between shield/armor super caps:
Neither one would passively recharge. The shield boost amp would be void on super caps. The capital shield booster would= cap armor rep stats exactly. Slaves would affect super cap shields with exact same hit points as armor. Shield hardeners would be identical % as armor counterparts.No overload allowed for invul fields.
They would be exactly the same then, right?
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 06:00:00 -
[693]
Ok and you think that its ok that armor tanks can get their EHP 40-50% more than shield tankers.... Would Making a shield hp Implant completely unbalance the system? Shield Regen plays no factor on the Cap battle field cause it doesnt regen even close to the damage capital ships deal
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Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.07 06:16:00 -
[694]
Edited by: Lee Kin on 07/01/2010 06:23:10
Originally by: Bobbeh Ok and you think that its ok that armor tanks can get their EHP 40-50% more than shield tankers.... Would Making a shield hp Implant completely unbalance the system? Shield Regen plays no factor on the Cap battle field cause it doesnt regen even close to the damage capital ships deal
I was just looking at a way to make them exactly the same.Like having slaves effect super cap shield tankers.The passive regen doesn't help much in the fight, but both would need to be repped afterwards. Shields can get roughly the same ehp as it is. I was only looking at a way to make it exactly the same amount. Of course in doing so you would have to be sure to not let them gain an edge in resistances. You would also have to remove overloading invuls and remove passive recharge on shields to match armor. They would be equal then?
well if u r ok with having all meds for hardeners and **** u can make 62mil with cn invuls and xtype hardeners :>
Well said Apol I revoke my point its been a while since i looked at armor mods. Last i checked they werent that expensive :P Maybe it has to do with Dominion and all the armor tanking supercap pilots wanting mods
Wait, you're just goofing around now, right. You did this a page ago too.Yeah, you got me.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 06:24:00 -
[695]
Edited by: Bobbeh on 07/01/2010 06:31:47 Yea your right, Exactly the same would be boring.... But needless to say the argument for sup caps is, Shield sis Short Burst Huge active dps tank, armor is about Large buffer and constant repping over time. The same cant be said for Caps and Super caps, As active tanking doesnt really save you from Dreads or titans. regen,boosting. neither matter when your staring at dreads. resistances matter and Raw hp matter, So if an armor tank can get nearly the same resistances and twice or 3 times the raw hp... they are going to be much prefered to shield tanks when it comes to the cap battlefield.
*** Edit*** Its kinda hard to read the last part of your post but im not joking around with you if it felt like that im sorry. My Main MS/SC toon can fly Both Aeons and Wyverns. When i did testing on both i quiet enjoyed the WYvern but when it came to the cap arena the Aeon just survives longer. Once the Wyverns shields are down, it dropped like a fly and that only took 3 titans ddin, which isnt uncommon at all. The aeon on the other hand could take 1 dd to the shields and another 4 to the armor before being into structure. In the end i chose the wyvern cause im vain and i like the way it looks over the aeon.
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Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.07 06:36:00 -
[696]
twice or 3 times the raw hp... ehp's being the same, it will still take the exact same firepower to kill you.
It might all be for not anyway. The test server doesn't reflect any of this now, and dev posts have stopped. They might have decided to scrap it again. Maybe they read the lack of mothership losses lately as meaning"they're good enough" as opposed to just not logging in?
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Ilshavoh Zthuee
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Posted - 2010.01.07 06:59:00 -
[697]
Erebus max ehp with 4x active hardeners, 2x 28%, DCU2, Slave + Akemon in its own gang = roughly 60M EHP Leviathan max ehp with 6x active hardeners 64%, 2x CN Invuls, 4x CN PDUs + KVA2000 implant (5%)+ Slave + Akemon = 61.6M EHP and 5,6k passive recharge Leviathan as above without slave and akemon = 60,6M EHP and 5,6k passive recharge.
Leviathan is fine. Has roughly the same EHP as a Erebus without fitting officer invuls. can use +5 implants instead of slaves. And just not getting slaves and akemon pays for the extra shield hardeners.
the only thing thats a problem is the fact that its bonus must be recharged / healed upon jumping/logging in.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.07 08:16:00 -
[698]
There is absolutely no reason not to put officer invulns on your titan. |
Ilshavoh Zthuee
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Posted - 2010.01.07 08:47:00 -
[699]
Yes, but my point was that its not true that Leviathan pilots need to spend much more ISK compared to Armor tankers to get a comparable tank.
If you fit officer invuls then suddenly a Levis EHP becomes comparable to that of an Avatar with and Erebus in gang.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.07 09:12:00 -
[700]
Originally by: Ilshavoh Zthuee Yes, but my point was that its not true that Leviathan pilots need to spend much more ISK compared to Armor tankers to get a comparable tank.
If you fit officer invuls then suddenly a Levis EHP becomes comparable to that of an Avatar with and Erebus in gang.
This is only true because of the very very recent drop in Shield tanking modules. For both my first and second wyvern X type hardeners were in excess of 1.3b isk a piece. At the same time X type armor hardeners remained about where they are today. The price probably dropped due largely to dominion speculation. If CCP truly wants to see X Type and Officer prices come in line with eachother simply allow them to be on the market and not just on contract.
There will still be a rift between shield and armor tankers due to the fact that shield tanking is wildly more popular in highsec but it will be much easier for a lazy ****(like most shoppers) to compare prices
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Saman Ayan
Minmatar Lazy.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 10:22:00 -
[701]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources This is only true because of the very very recent drop in Shield tanking modules. For both my first and second wyvern X type hardeners were in excess of 1.3b isk a piece. At the same time X type armor hardeners remained about where they are today. The price probably dropped due largely to dominion speculation. If CCP truly wants to see X Type and Officer prices come in line with eachother simply allow them to be on the market and not just on contract.
There will still be a rift between shield and armor tankers due to the fact that shield tanking is wildly more popular in highsec but it will be much easier for a lazy ****(like most shoppers) to compare prices
Or, the contracts UI is improved. At the moment it's very slow and unwieldy to use, making it easy to manipulate the prices.
While there is higher demand for shield mods thanks to all the CNRs in highsec, only Guirstas produces the best shield hardeners, with the Angel hardeners less cap-intensive but worse resists. Serpentis, Blood Raiders and Sanshas all have exactly the same armor hardeners, so supply for those is better. Changing Gist X-Type hardeners to be the same as Pith X-Types and letting Angel officers drop active shield hardeners would make them a bit less expensive.
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hatchette
Caldari Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2010.01.07 11:15:00 -
[702]
Still no changes on SiSi :(
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.07 23:01:00 -
[703]
Edited by: Zeveron on 07/01/2010 23:04:31
Quote: Leviathan max ehp with 6x active hardeners 64%, 2x CN Invuls, 4x CN PDUs + KVA2000 implant (5%)+ Slave + Akemon = 61.6M EHP and 5,6k passive recharge Leviathan as above without slave and akemon = 60,6M EHP and 5,6k passive recharge.
I think I am doing somthing wrong bcs I am getting 43m ehps with 4 officer pdus w/o the leviathan bonus. 58m with the bonus. And the passive recharge you mention is not 5.6k. The defence on EFT is how much damage you can sustain but not the passive recharge of your shields, which is 200/s at arround 73% of your shields (more with lower shields and pick at 30%). ________________________________________________
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 23:34:00 -
[704]
Originally by: Zeveron I think I am doing somthing wrong bcs I am getting 43m ehps with 4 officer pdus w/o the leviathan bonus. 58m with the bonus.
CN PDUs give +6% shield hp, officer give +5%. Switch to CN PDUs and your w/levi bonus amount should be right at 61.6m
Quote: And the passive recharge you mention is not 5.6k. The defence on EFT is how much damage you can sustain but not the passive recharge of your shields, which is 200/s at arround 73% of your shields (more with lower shields and pick at 30%).
I believe it is fairly obvious by "5.6K passive recharge" he actually didn't mean it was recharging 5.6K hp/s. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
ExcellciuM
Unknown Research Ventures
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Posted - 2010.01.08 01:33:00 -
[705]
Any news on the Hels bonus yet? ------------
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Cheekything
Gallente Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.08 01:42:00 -
[706]
Any Chance that Advanced Drone Interfacing might be changed to just effect fighter and fighter bomber damage rather than adding an extra drone to what in generally a lagfested fight?
I'm asking because it seems it might be useful with the current patch to train it to 5 however it creates the issue of making high slots useless which I'm not sure supercarrier pilots can afford to lose.
I came to the idea that maybe you could change the skill to alter the damage and rather than leaving a redundant module in the game change it to give a bonus to drone and fighter hp to give it a use or maybe just throw it away but it about high time for a good old fashioned change.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.01.08 02:19:00 -
[707]
Just a thought but how about for the hell
20% bonus to ecm burst range and strength per level.
Currently the radiua is 20km and jam strength is 25. With this you could get it up to 40km and 50 jam strength. Not sure how useful this would be though thanks to triage mode and siege mode making capitals immune but it would be a unique role. ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.08 02:46:00 -
[708]
Except ECM is sort of a caldari thing.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.08 03:56:00 -
[709]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Except ECM is sort of a caldari thing.
<rp crap> maybe there's been some spying and scientist snatching goin on in Faction Warfare.... </stupid crap>
all 4 moms currently use the Remote ECM burst anyway. This module has potential, much like the clone vat bay it just wasn't implemented well.
Also, on the R-ECM. I've not messed with it for sometime, but I believe if the MS pilot bursts something with himself in the burst radius it disrupts the mothership's locks as well. If this is true, does it work on sieged dreads/triaged carriers? If it does on both counts and gets a little tweaking the R-ECM could be a quite valuable asset to have in a fight.
An idea I've kicked around for a few years with friends, would be not just a lock breaking burst, but a temporary (20sec ish) Sensor Damp Effect maybe? Regular ECM knocks out the target for 20 seconds, why is it the Remote ECM Burst only breaks the locks? and doesn't have the 20sec timer.
A 20sec lock break on a triaged carrier repping a support fleet would be quite valuable. Not to mention the lock and 20sec timer on the ships in range of the target. R-ECM should be painful to the recipient, currently it's barely a nuisance. I was spending some time in FFA2 recently with some Moms on the field, and everytime they burst I just relocked my targets and my Archon's RR was broken for 2-3 seconds tops. For the cost of a highslot, the massive capacitor use and cooldown timer, I just think it should be a wee bit more worthwhile.
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Xing Fey
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Posted - 2010.01.08 05:36:00 -
[710]
^On that note it would be neat if we could get racial super-ewar-burst mods instead of only ECM
Buff the R-ECMburst to a 20 second lock-break, restrict to wyvern
Add a "remote interdiction field" for the nyx that basicly sticks a HIC bubble to the target ship (continuous, not burst effect)
Add a super-neut thing for the aeon that has significant "alpha-cap-drain" ina wide area(burst effect)
Add a remote webber bubble to the Hel. (Continous effect, not burst)
And then give the hel 10% drone and fighter and fighter-bomber HP/level or something...
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Ptinoz
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.08 06:50:00 -
[711]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Hello, everyone. WeÆve made a few changes that we would like to give you a heads up about and get your feedback on. We will attempt to be as active in this thread as we can and reply to your feedback / answer questions. So, here is a short list of the important bits which will change from what is currently on TQ and appear on SiSi very soon: ... ... All of this will be going to SiSi in the next couple days. While future iteration on capitals is still possible, all of the above is what we consider to be updates and fixes to current issues. We look forward to your constructive and always enthusiastic feedback.
CCP? Can't Come Post?
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.08 07:10:00 -
[712]
Edited by: Bobbeh on 08/01/2010 07:11:37 ^^^^ They are Prolly Fighting the monster Known as lag :P
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Ptinoz
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.08 07:14:00 -
[713]
Edited by: Ptinoz on 08/01/2010 07:14:49
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: NedFromAssembly For those who have missed it, the HP buff is on sisi, nothing else about it seems to be yet.
(Posted - 2009.12.29 00:24:00)
All changes in the OP should now be on SiSi. If something didn't make it or there are market seeding issues, etc... please bring it to our attention.
More replies later.
Hmm - I think it's been said a bunch of times that the Fighter Bombers ain't seeded yet, but nothing been heard from CCP since this time. From what I saw the SC's still isn't fully updated besides the HP buff.
CCP - do you concider the brainstorming to Domionon 1.1 to be over and you got nothing more to say and really don't need to test everything on the testserver before launch or what's happening - why this silence?
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Igor 77
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Posted - 2010.01.08 07:15:00 -
[714]
CCP silence in the thread means that the decision are now made. Save your breath for round 2 after we get these promises delivered into Dominion 1.1. or the alternative continue rabbling until CCP withdraws all changes again.
Round one ends, Ding ding!
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Ptinoz
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.08 07:20:00 -
[715]
Originally by: Bobbeh Edited by: Bobbeh on 08/01/2010 07:11:37 ^^^^ They are Prolly Fighting the monster Known as lag :P
Well - if so that's probably the by far best thing they can do - however I don't see why that would take 100% of the staff and couldn't mean they could assign at least one person to the Domionion 1.1 brainstorming in this thread. I've started to feel like my girlfriend - craving for attention :p
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.08 07:37:00 -
[716]
Quote: CN PDUs give +6% shield hp, officer give +5%. Switch to CN PDUs and your w/levi bonus amount should be right at 61.6m
Ok then you should type it: 61m ehps after 6h of session change or that -37.5% bcs of how leviathan gang bonus works. And that nowhere near the erebus or avatar with erebus bonus (they get instant 70-80m ehps w/o dual tanking bcs of the slaves) ________________________________________________
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.08 07:59:00 -
[717]
Yep Its great to Jump into a system and Have a good portion of your primary tank is gone, or when the Booster changes....
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Mendolorian Girl
Caldari Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.08 09:39:00 -
[718]
Originally by: Letifer Deus CN PDUs give +6% shield hp, officer give +5%. Switch to CN PDUs and your w/levi bonus amount should be right at 61.6m
now that's a pro tip, nice one :)
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.08 11:10:00 -
[719]
So let's nerf slaves because CCP fails at ensuring gang bonuses are applied fairly?
Why not just fix gang bonus application?
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Tenk
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.08 11:18:00 -
[720]
Edited by: Tenk on 08/01/2010 11:18:12 Imo, all of the logistical bonuses on motherships should be removed in favour of some unique repair module. I just don't see the 50km remote rep range on a mothership really fitting with its new role as a pretty high damage supercap and it invites the idea of mothership blobs a bit too much (with little or no support).
Some ideas I see are: -focussed rep for 4m EHP e.g. a reverse DD with similar penalties. -gang wide resists booster but short term to negate the usefulness of DD, something like 30 second duration, every 15 minutes for 80% on all resists to all gang members on grid without a stacking penalty. with DD like penalties.
As for Hel's secondary bonus I think it should just get fighter damage bonus the same as Thanatos providing that applies to fighter bombers also.
As a lot of other ppl said, the Remote ecm burst should also bee looked at because its not useful at the moment.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.08 12:19:00 -
[721]
Edited by: McFly on 08/01/2010 12:20:04
Originally by: Xing Fey ^On that note it would be neat if we could get racial super-ewar-burst mods instead of only ECM
Buff the R-ECMburst to a 20 second lock-break, restrict to wyvern
Add a "remote interdiction field" for the nyx that basicly sticks a HIC bubble to the target ship (continuous, not burst effect) Add a super-neut thing for the aeon that has significant "alpha-cap-drain" ina wide area(burst effect) Add a remote webber bubble to the Hel. (Continous effect, not burst) And then give the hel 10% drone and fighter and fighter-bomber HP/level or something...
Along the lines of what I was actually thinking of posting, although I think any Remote Racial Ewar Burst Module, would need extensive testing. I don't think the idea of the continuous web/bubble would be advisable. Perhaps more akin to a light dictor bubble with a longer duration, but not something where a nyx and hel can be 200km from the fight and tackling an entire fleet continuously.
Although the Tackling EWs would probably more strategically useful, they would also be overpowered imo. It would be too easy for moms with their ewar immunity (which I DONT want changed) and a long range warp in to do the job of tacklers/Recons. I think we should stick to the Tech 1 ewar racial bonuses
Since CCP will most likely not even look at this kind of change before dominion 1.1 I put a proposal in Assembly Hall with the glimer of hope it may gain some support and go somewhere with the CSM, even though that's beyond doubtful considering the way the system is designed. Something like this might be more appropriate perhaps linky
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hatchette
Caldari Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2010.01.08 14:08:00 -
[722]
Skill and bombers on sisi!
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ArmagedonLT
Amarr Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.08 14:23:00 -
[723]
Originally by: hatchette Skill and bombers on sisi!
nope.. bombers and skills havent been seeded yet.. |
Ilshavoh Zthuee
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Posted - 2010.01.08 15:46:00 -
[724]
Originally by: Zeveron
Quote: CN PDUs give +6% shield hp, officer give +5%. Switch to CN PDUs and your w/levi bonus amount should be right at 61.6m
Ok then you should type it: 61m ehps after 6h of session change or that -37.5% bcs of how leviathan gang bonus works. And that nowhere near the erebus or avatar with erebus bonus (they get instant 70-80m ehps w/o dual tanking bcs of the slaves)
60M EHP is waht the Erebus get with the erebus bonus :) Avatar with erebus bonus gets like 73M EHP. So Leviathan and erebus has fully comparable EHPk, wasnt it for the fact that it has to reacharge and which is what needs to be fixed :)
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hatchette
Caldari Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2010.01.08 17:44:00 -
[725]
Originally by: ArmagedonLT
Originally by: hatchette Skill and bombers on sisi!
nope.. bombers and skills havent been seeded yet..
DEV said they are, but server needs to reboot for them to appear... guess well have to crash it :)
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises FREGE
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Posted - 2010.01.08 18:58:00 -
[726]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
ò Fighter Bombers ò Hit Point boost ò Jump Range increase ò Removal of Triage usage ò Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
I didn't see some stuff mentioned, BUT, what is this going to do to the price of motherships. yeah it will be a cold day in hell before i call them supercarriers.
IF you remember the price change caused a lot of rage, personally i would be happy with 12 bill instead of 18, as long as we got a good reimbursement.
next NO DOCKING!!!
Finally as to the Hel. It should be the supreme logistics boat, after all how much duck tape was used to make it? I would say, 500% range to capital RR and a reduction on capacitor needed to operated said RR modules. maybe 7.5% per level. Or give it a bonus to logistics drones.
tossing it out there man.
<3 Abathur!
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D Solarz
The Executives
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Posted - 2010.01.08 21:54:00 -
[727]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
I didn't see some stuff mentioned, BUT, what is this going to do to the price of motherships. yeah it will be a cold day in hell before i call them supercarriers.
IF you remember the price change caused a lot of rage, personally i would be happy with 12 bill instead of 18, as long as we got a good reimbursement.
prices will go down and no, you wont get reimbursed for it. welcome to eve.
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
next NO DOCKING!!!
it might be coming in the form of sov upgrades (rumor)
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Finally as to the Hel. It should be the supreme logistics boat, after all how much duck tape was used to make it? I would say, 500% range to capital RR and a reduction on capacitor needed to operated said RR modules. maybe 7.5% per level. Or give it a bonus to logistics drones.
please for the love of god, NO. with no triage and extreme damage from fighterbombers, how is a logistics supercarrier justifed? Hel needs a damage bonus or something similar. you want a logistics carrier, fly a nid.
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises FREGE
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Posted - 2010.01.09 00:41:00 -
[728]
you cant cut the price w/o some sort of compensation. This was one of the reasons that caused over 100 pages of hate and numerous locked threads and deleted posts.
As I said in the some 100 pages of hate, if you reduce costs too much, not only do you give the shaft to the guy who bought/own a mom, but you also give the shaft to all the people who currently have them in production and that goes all the way back to the miners.
I dont knwo about you guys but any cut costs is going to cause a lot of rage.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.09 01:26:00 -
[729]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 09/01/2010 01:26:10
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk I didn't see some stuff mentioned, BUT, what is this going to do to the price of motherships. yeah it will be a cold day in hell before i call them supercarriers.
IF you remember the price change caused a lot of rage, personally i would be happy with 12 bill instead of 18, as long as we got a good reimbursement.
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk I dont knwo about you guys but any cut costs is going to cause a lot of rage.
Uhh, no it won't. Few people if any complained about the decrease in build cost derived from dropping the Capital Clone Vat bay which, given an ME 0 Nyx print (220 needed) and buying the parts off of EC's Jita price of about 8 mil, only amounts to 1.76 bil. This was seen as a small sacrifice in return for the actual usability of the ship.
The 100 page hatethread that you obviously never actually read only raged about the price reduction when Nozh wanted to drop the build cost to 5-6 bil. In case you haven't been paying attention to this thread, which again seems obvious, Abathur is returning to the pre-Nozh supercarrier model.
LOL at "I'd be happy with 12 bil instead of 18" - do you even realise what the build costs of supercarriers right now is? You might have paid 18, but the capital parts that went into it didn't cost 18.
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises FREGE
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Posted - 2010.01.09 01:44:00 -
[730]
I stand corrected, thank you Zeke.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.09 02:33:00 -
[731]
Sooo CCP whats up? You guys planning on doing this still or do we get Nozh again?
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D Solarz
The Executives
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Posted - 2010.01.09 06:45:00 -
[732]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Sooo CCP whats up? You guys planning on doing this still or do we get Nozh again?
actually gonna side with a goon here...
so can we get some feedback as to whats happening? inquiring minds are dying to know
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.09 06:54:00 -
[733]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk I stand corrected, thank you Zeke.
Reread my earlier post, and I apologise for coming off as a **** -.- I may well be one, but I usually have better self-control than that :p
It is kinda disturbing that nothing at all seems to have made it to Singularity - are they going to back off again?
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Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2010.01.09 09:13:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Brennah The way these ships perform are more like Supercarriers than a true mothership, so the new naming convention is more correct.
But it sounds significantly less awesome, and since when did EVE care for realism?
Mothership sounds like it is a massive tit that other ships suck on. ___________ Proof that Daniel Jackson is a ret@rded furry |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.09 09:55:00 -
[735]
I for one hoping CCP is still alive and not feel finalized at this topic - then I mean especially about the Supercarriers. I hope they come back from their christmas/new year-celebrations soon and give some more feedback here so that we see that we are still listened to.
For instance topics I feel still need real good attention:
Hel racial bonus - It's really not fair to remove triage and make SC's cap-killers and let the weakest SC keep a logistics bonus - a specialized role it loosed the upperhand at with removal of triage.
- There are at the moment two races specialized in self-defence, Caldari for Shield and Amarr for Armor. It would be just logical to make Hel the other SC with a dps bonus, or a combination of self-defence and dps as Minmatar can be pretty wide in their functions. I'll suggest three bonuses in order I find them most logical that's been suggested earlier (mainly not by me, but I took what I liked most):
1) 5% Rate of Fire to Fighers/Fighter Bombers - In same way as the tankers got the two main versions of tank bonuses, this would give Minmatar the other version of the dps-bonus but still be a unique one and not same as Gallente.
2a) 3% Rate of Fire to Fighers/Fighter Bombers 2b) 3% Explosion Radius to Fighter Bombers - A combination of the above and the bonus CCP had on SiSi before the withdrawal pre-Dominion. It would give Minmatar a smaller dps bonus than Gallente, but also an extra bonus to hitting smaller/moving targets with the fighter bombers that in some cases even could out-dps Gallente. Since this firepower is from torpedos from drones and Minmatar is #2 missile race that's pretty ok with game history as I see it.
3a) 3% Rate of Fire to Fighers/Fighter Bombers 3b) 3% bonus to all Shield resistances per level - This is another combination suggestion with the same dps from ROF bonus and also a smaller tank-bonus in same manner as Caldari got. This makes it "not crap" compared to the other SC's and still not be as hard hitting as Gallente or as heavy shield tanked as Caldari. If I get a Hel, this would be the bonus I'd like most :)
I understand that it's less likelly to be a combination bonus, but since I like those alternatives so much I felt I could'nt resist putting them out here again. The most important thing though is to give Hel another bonus than the logistics-crap.
Shieldtanking supercaps - Implants What about an shield version to the slave-set? Perhaps a new one with a recharge penalty as someone suggested that eliminates the extra recharge one would get from the HP-buff?
- Bonuses It's not fair that so insanely much EHP should be lost when entering a new system or whatever that it takes hours and hours to passively recharge when armortankers get bonus instantly. This is even more so when the armor-tanking system is highly favored among capitals and therefor is much more likelly to be fitted in logistics carriers.
It feels to me that it's really important that you address those things now when so much related to them is on the table of change - since otherwise I, and many with me, fear they will be neglected for years to come (as earlier).
CCP plz do this stuff properly this time, and do start to comment here again. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Iron Pride
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Posted - 2010.01.09 11:34:00 -
[736]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Shieldtanking supercaps - Implants What about an shield version to the slave-set? Perhaps a new one with a recharge penalty as someone suggested that eliminates the extra recharge one would get from the HP-buff?
- Bonuses It's not fair that so insanely much EHP should be lost when entering a new system or whatever that it takes hours and hours to passively recharge when armortankers get bonus instantly.
^^This. Any response about shield amount bonus being changed to instant like armor?
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0nline
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2010.01.09 11:36:00 -
[737]
TBH knowing how many people plan to use motherships in the future the current Hel bonus is actually very good.
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Xue Slick
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Posted - 2010.01.09 13:24:00 -
[738]
Dear CCP,
When do you expect to give a response to this thread with the updated details that you are working on. This is something that CCP really needs to work on, Public relations, you guys suck at it. This thread was created on the 2009.12.21. The last post from a Dev was 2009.12.29.
Common CCP get your act together and let us know what is going on... this is getting frustrating...
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.09 14:02:00 -
[739]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 09/01/2010 14:03:02
Originally by: ByFstugan I fail at bonuses.
Oh come on - I already explained this. 3% ROF = 5% Damage. I wish I could cajole someone into giving the Nyx its +25% damage AND a resist bonus (GALLENTE FOREVER) but it ain't gonna happen, whether I do it straight up or try to hide it behind a similar bonus. By extension, the 5% ROF bonus is better than 5% damage - again, nice try. Now, if you made it 3% for option 1, that'd work, but then you'd have to deal with all the people like yourself who don't get that ROF bonuses don't convert straight over to damage.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.09 15:00:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin One quick note about ROF bonuses - remember that each percentage point of ROF results in a greater damage boost than each percentage point of damage. I did some really quick calcs (below, to lol at my failmath) and 3% ROF is equivalent to 5% damage as far as DPS is concerned :p
(failmath: Nyx: 20 dmg/shot * 1.25 dmg/shot = 25 dmg/shot ˜ 3/(1.00) {3.00} sec refire = 7.667 dps Hel: 20 dmg/shot * 1.00 dmg/shot = 20 dmg/shot ˜ 3/(1.15) {2.61} sec refire = 7.667 dps)
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 09/01/2010 14:03:02
Originally by: ByFstugan I fail at bonuses.
Oh come on - I already explained this. 3% ROF = 5% Damage. I wish I could cajole someone into giving the Nyx its +25% damage AND a resist bonus (GALLENTE FOREVER) but it ain't gonna happen, whether I do it straight up or try to hide it behind a similar bonus. By extension, the 5% ROF bonus is better than 5% damage - again, nice try. Now, if you made it 3% for option 1, that'd work, but then you'd have to deal with all the people like yourself who don't get that ROF bonuses don't convert straight over to damage.
Oh man of great wisdom - I fail to see your math accurate.
First of all, my first thought was if you fire 1 shot with 10 damage per second, and then either doubles the damage or halfs the ROF the end result will be the same. So I thought, what math have you found that goes another way here. I went back here and found your post you mentioned, and tried to calculate what each of those numbers would do in damage per minute. Your base is:
20 damage per 3 second rate of fire.
Nyx 25% damage bonus 20x1,25 = 25 damage 60/3 = 20 shots/minute DAMAGE = 20x25 = 500 dpm
Hel 15% ROF bonus 20 damage 60/(3/1,15) = 23 shots/minute DAMAGE = 20x23 = 460 dpm
Now I wonder - how can 500 = 460 oh' man of great wisdom?
A more simple question could be how do you not get 25/3 to be 8,33? _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.09 15:11:00 -
[741]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 09/01/2010 15:11:49
Originally by: 0nline TBH knowing how many people plan to use motherships in the future the current Hel bonus is actually very good.
TBH you don't get that SC-pilots don't wanna be logistics pilots when SC's new role is capital-damage - and did you miss the removal of triage?
TBH Hel pilot's don't wanna be the MS that don't have neither extra dps or extra tank, and mainly fly their SC in order to support the other "real SC's" and do it at 25% efficiency to a triaged Nidhoggur.
TBH CCP guessed almost correctly when they guessed some might think the old logistics bonus was a bit "meh" - only with the correction of most thinking it's really REALLY "MEH". _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.09 15:21:00 -
[742]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 09/01/2010 15:24:17
Originally by: ByFstugan
A more simple question could be how do you not get 25/3 to be 8,33?
*curls into a little ball and cries himself to sleep after /wristing*
I stand corrected, and am firing my clumsy fingers for typos and brain for not catching them, o glorious dispenser of greater wisdom >.> Now I'm trying to figure out how people say that ROF bonus > damage bonus, but I don't have the time to atm -.-
Honestly, the logistics bonus does need to go. Making the Hel the shield gank SC is probably CCP's easiest option at this point, and probably one of the better ones too.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.09 17:16:00 -
[743]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 09/01/2010 17:23:22
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
*curls into a little ball and cries himself to sleep after /wristing*
I stand corrected, and am firing my clumsy fingers for typos and brain for not catching them, o glorious dispenser of greater wisdom >.> Now I'm trying to figure out how people say that ROF bonus > damage bonus, but I don't have the time to atm
Because rof bonus is greater than dmg bonus. (assuming lvl 5 skills) 4% rof bonus would equal 5% dmg bonus. whereas 5% rof bonus would equate to a 6.66% damage bonus. They aren't going to give the Hel a 5% rof bonus for two reasons: it will increase lag and it will give it better dps than the nyx
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0nline
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2010.01.09 21:00:00 -
[744]
Edited by: 0nline on 09/01/2010 21:05:36
Originally by: ByFstugan Edited by: ByFstugan on 09/01/2010 15:37:15
Originally by: 0nline TBH knowing how many people plan to use motherships in the future the current Hel bonus is actually very good.
TBH you don't get that SC-pilots don't wanna be logistics pilots when SC's new role is capital-damage - and did you miss the removal of triage?
TBH Hel pilot's don't wanna be the SC that don't have neither extra dps or extra tank, and mainly fly their SC in order to support the other "real SC's" and do it at 25% efficiency to a triaged Nidhoggur.
TBH CCP guessed almost correctly when they guessed some might think the old logistics bonus was a bit "meh" - only with the correction of most thinking it's really REALLY "MEH".
Forgot that the really big alliances will jump into 2 million support carriers so their super caps don't have to keep themselves or the other super caps alive.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.09 22:03:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 09/01/2010 17:23:22
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
*curls into a little ball and cries himself to sleep after /wristing*
I stand corrected, and am firing my clumsy fingers for typos and brain for not catching them, o glorious dispenser of greater wisdom >.> Now I'm trying to figure out how people say that ROF bonus > damage bonus, but I don't have the time to atm
Because rof bonus is greater than dmg bonus. (assuming lvl 5 skills) 4% rof bonus would equal 5% dmg bonus. whereas 5% rof bonus would equate to a 6.66% damage bonus. They aren't going to give the Hel a 5% rof bonus for two reasons: it will increase lag and it will give it better dps than the nyx
Would you mind explain that in reason and math then plz, since using the former math I get same endresult in damage per minute.
BASE: 20 damage per 3 second rate of fire.
Nyx 25% damage bonus 20x1,25 = 25 damage 60/3 = 20 shots/minute DAMAGE = 20x25 = 500 dpm
Hel 25% ROF bonus 20 damage 60/(3/1,25) = 25 shots/minute DAMAGE = 20x25 = 500 dpm
How U get more dps if dpm is the same? _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.01.09 22:15:00 -
[746]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 09/01/2010 22:15:47
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Zeveron I think I am doing somthing wrong bcs I am getting 43m ehps with 4 officer pdus w/o the leviathan bonus. 58m with the bonus.
CN PDUs give +6% shield hp, officer give +5%. Switch to CN PDUs and your w/levi bonus amount should be right at 61.6m
5 PDU's on a lev may not be a good idea in general, and with the missing 37.5% shield, it doesn't even come close to other titan's EHP any way.
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Rejected Enlightenment
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.09 23:47:00 -
[747]
Originally by: Sokratesz 5 PDU's on a lev may not be a good idea in general, and with the missing 37.5% shield, it doesn't even come close to other titan's EHP any way.
You have no idea how supercapitals work in this game.
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Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.01.09 23:52:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 09/01/2010 22:15:47
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Zeveron I think I am doing somthing wrong bcs I am getting 43m ehps with 4 officer pdus w/o the leviathan bonus. 58m with the bonus.
CN PDUs give +6% shield hp, officer give +5%. Switch to CN PDUs and your w/levi bonus amount should be right at 61.6m
5 PDU's on a lev may not be a good idea in general, and with the missing 37.5% shield, it doesn't even come close to other titan's EHP any way.
You're quite right. It's far better to fit 4 CN pdu's and a damage control 2. This allows almost 62 mil effective hitpoints with the leviathon bonus and still out damages the other titans. This is with the best hardeners. You could drop to second best and still be in the same area and way more if you overload.
The only thing it might need is a fix to the gang bonus insta effect. If this goes through they should make shields and armor on super caps static and remove the passive recharge to make it even.
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.10 03:41:00 -
[749]
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 09/01/2010 22:15:47
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Zeveron I think I am doing somthing wrong bcs I am getting 43m ehps with 4 officer pdus w/o the leviathan bonus. 58m with the bonus.
CN PDUs give +6% shield hp, officer give +5%. Switch to CN PDUs and your w/levi bonus amount should be right at 61.6m
5 PDU's on a lev may not be a good idea in general, and with the missing 37.5% shield, it doesn't even come close to other titan's EHP any way.
well it's either less cap and more shields or more cap and less shields :>
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db Deckard
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Posted - 2010.01.10 05:26:00 -
[750]
My corp would like to make the move to 0.0 and maintain our capabilities in Empire. The only way to do that is using jump clones. The Rorqual is a great ship but only has 6 clone slots, dreads cant mount a vat, so with the removal of the vats from the mother ship that only leaves the titans. I dont see a fixed facility POS module that can provide the service. Am I missing something? Will CCP be creating a Clone Vat for a POS thats only functional if you have a certain soveriegnty level?
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.10 07:49:00 -
[751]
Originally by: db Deckard My corp would like to make the move to 0.0 and maintain our capabilities in Empire. The only way to do that is using jump clones. The Rorqual is a great ship but only has 6 clone slots, dreads cant mount a vat, so with the removal of the vats from the mother ship that only leaves the titans. I dont see a fixed facility POS module that can provide the service. Am I missing something? Will CCP be creating a Clone Vat for a POS thats only functional if you have a certain soveriegnty level?
There is no clone vat structure, prolly should be but there isn't. Also if you already have a mothership in corp, get ur clones made (becuase they are basically jump clones), dock somewhere safe, jump to the new clones, and then store them in a nearby station for later use.
clone vats barely work as is. grind some missions for a few weeks corp wide, get the corp average with a cloning npc corp over 8.0 and then go get jump clones. Or if you can find a cloning npc corp in which none of your corp's characters have standings positive or negative, make an alt, go do missions for them and get +8.0 standing, then join that alt with the corp, making the corp average +8.0 and then everyone in corp can get jump clones.
As to the clone vat, until it will allow you to store a real jump clone with implants, it's not particularly useful. It acts like a jump clone with the timer restriction but also like a medical clone with a clean slate as well.
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RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2010.01.10 08:41:00 -
[752]
Originally by: Terra Mikael
Mothership sounds like it is a massive tit that other ships suck on.
lol
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.10 09:52:00 -
[753]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 10/01/2010 09:52:56 I know it would seem more like an Amarr bonus but here goes. I was trying to think along the idea of "Capital Killer"
Hel bonus: 10% to nos/neutralizer range, less capacitor used and cap/neutralizer amount.
Not sure if 10% is enough or not, but whatever. Something different and would definitely put a hurt on capitals.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.10 10:26:00 -
[754]
Edited by: SolarKnight on 10/01/2010 10:26:59
Originally by: ByFstugan Edited by: ByFstugan on 09/01/2010 22:48:45
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 09/01/2010 17:23:22
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
*curls into a little ball and cries himself to sleep after /wristing*
I stand corrected, and am firing my clumsy fingers for typos and brain for not catching them, o glorious dispenser of greater wisdom >.> Now I'm trying to figure out how people say that ROF bonus > damage bonus, but I don't have the time to atm
Because rof bonus is greater than dmg bonus. (assuming lvl 5 skills) 4% rof bonus would equal 5% dmg bonus. whereas 5% rof bonus would equate to a 6.66% damage bonus. They aren't going to give the Hel a 5% rof bonus for two reasons: it will increase lag and it will give it better dps than the nyx
Would you mind explain that in reason and math then plz, since using the former math I get same endresult in damage per minute.
BASE: 20 damage per 3 second rate of fire.
Nyx 25% damage bonus 20x1,25 = 25 damage 60/3 = 20 shots/minute
DAMAGE = 20x25 = 500 dpm
Hel 25% ROF bonus 20 damage 60/(3/1,25) = 25 shots/minute DAMAGE = 20x25 = 500 dpm
How U get more dps if dpm is the same?
EDIT: Seems as it might be wrong formula that I reused from the former poster. I think the ROF bonus is correctly:
Hel 25% ROF bonus 20 damage 60/(3*0,75) = 26,67 shots/minute DAMAGE = 20x25 = 533 dpm
Then 20% gives 500dpm as U said.
I'm no expert on the math, so I'm just curiuos to how this could be solved.
I do however think that a damagebonus is best for Hel, so if 4% is the alternative that's ok with me. I'm not that convinced that CCP would avoid a ROF bonus due to the lag argument.
25% Rate of fire bonus for turrets is equivalent to a 33% damage bonus The Light in the Darkness
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Herar Domain
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Posted - 2010.01.10 10:32:00 -
[755]
Any info availible when 1.1 will be deployed on TQ?
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.01.10 10:56:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Lee Kin
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 09/01/2010 22:15:47
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Zeveron I think I am doing somthing wrong bcs I am getting 43m ehps with 4 officer pdus w/o the leviathan bonus. 58m with the bonus.
CN PDUs give +6% shield hp, officer give +5%. Switch to CN PDUs and your w/levi bonus amount should be right at 61.6m
5 PDU's on a lev may not be a good idea in general, and with the missing 37.5% shield, it doesn't even come close to other titan's EHP any way.
You're quite right. It's far better to fit 4 CN pdu's and a damage control 2. This allows almost 62 mil effective hitpoints with the leviathon bonus and still out damages the other titans.
4 PDU's + DCU still doesn't come close to other titans EHP, and the leviathans dps is stretched thin over a huge sig radius and hence only realistically works against cap ships.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.01.10 15:13:00 -
[757]
If Amarr love their armor tanking. And the Caldari love their shield tanking. And the Gallente love them some drone action.
Then the hel, why not let it do what the minmatar love to do? Read the vagabond description if you are wondering.
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down.
Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S |
Aequitas Veritas
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.10 15:27:00 -
[758]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 10/01/2010 15:33:05
Originally by: Sokratesz
4 PDU's + DCU still doesn't come close to other titans EHP, and the leviathans dps is stretched thin over a huge sig radius and hence only realistically works against cap ships.
Why do you post things which is 100% wrong?
Erebus with 28% enams, 4x 64%, dcu2: 60.1M EHP with slaves, akemon and own bonus Avatar with same setup + regenerative in low and implants above: roughly 59.2M EHP Leviathan with CN PDU's and DCU2 and Caldari Navy Invuls, full tank in med slots: 57.9M - if you fit Thon Invuls: 63.5M EHP
Also Leviathan can overload one invul for 10 mins: 69.7M EHP
What they need to fix is the shield bonus having to recharge and the bug that caps resists at 90%
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.01.10 16:17:00 -
[759]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 10/01/2010 16:20:52
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
What they need to fix is the shield bonus having to recharge and the bug that caps resists at 90%
That little caveat kind of destroys your entire argument, but please show support for a fix. |
LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.10 16:36:00 -
[760]
why r ppl trying to be awsome and comming up with ACTIVE bonus while other motherships got passive one is beyond me ...
aeon - PASSIVE bonus for resists wyvern - PASSIVE bonus for resists nyx - PASSIVE bonus for dmg
and u comming up with 20% bonus for nos?
Originally by: Marlona Sky
20% to nos/neutralizer range, less capacitor used and cap/neutralizer amount.
Yes I know at level 5 it would mean it uses no Capacitor to use the neutralizers but I don't think that would be too crazy.
What do ya'll think?
i think u dont have ms :)
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Boom Arrival
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Posted - 2010.01.10 20:40:00 -
[761]
Edited by: Boom Arrival on 10/01/2010 20:41:44
The current meta-game has bombers being over used. CCP could add better counters for bombs into the game. 1. Modify defender missiles to seek and destroy bombs/multiple bombs (aoe explosion). 2. Add a 100km Smartbomb that fires like a mini DoomsDay (wiping out bombs at least). 3. Grant Smartbombs a longer range.
As far as Fighters/F.Bombers are concerned, their hp is far too low for this metagame of fleets. At one point CCP says Super Caps should only be flown with support, but when Fighters are used in fleetss they just die to Smartbombs and Cov. Bombers; You can cripple a 15-30billion isk ship with 5 20mil frigates that only have to stay on the field for 1 second. Its rediculous and seriously needs to be addressed.
Also, as far as orbiting outside smartbomb range goes; its not a bad adjustment to counter F.Bombers dieing to smartbombs, but its only going to be effective if you are attacking 1 Ship (which would be lowsec ganking not fleet warfare). Another example of contradicting the whole Super Caps should be fleet ships point. Bottom line, Super Carriers are useless without drones and drones die far too easily.
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ZsTwin
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Posted - 2010.01.10 21:01:00 -
[762]
Originally by: SolarKnight
Originally by: ByFstugan Make the Fighter Bombers to XL Sentry Drones instead and with torpedoes that reach decent ranges.
Just also make sure they are given some kind of thruster, so they can "Return to Dronebay" and perhaps even "Follow ship" so U can move on the grid and have them with you. But "Return to Ship" option is the only really important one - other options is maybe nice also, but not needed.
I think it would look awesome also besides that it solves the problem with Fighter Bombers being unusable against enemy capital blobs du to the fact Bobby Atlas pointed out. But imagine the beauty when a Supercarrier lauches their swarm of FB's and start to fire torpedos from all around itself. Yummy mummy ^^
No thanks, leave POS sieges to the dreads please.
Seems that people are sieging POS with BS and Titans more than they are with Dreads these days.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.10 21:13:00 -
[763]
Originally by: LoveKebab why r ppl trying to be awsome and comming up with ACTIVE bonus while other motherships got passive one is beyond me ...
aeon - PASSIVE bonus for resists wyvern - PASSIVE bonus for resists nyx - PASSIVE bonus for dmg
and u comming up with 20% bonus for nos?
Originally by: Marlona Sky
20% to nos/neutralizer range, less capacitor used and cap/neutralizer amount.
Yes I know at level 5 it would mean it uses no Capacitor to use the neutralizers but I don't think that would be too crazy.
What do ya'll think?
i think u dont have ms :)
I said neutralizer did I not? I only included nos cause it seems that any bonus that affects neutralizers also affects nos on any other ship. But hey, enjoy your rr bonus. If I posted with an alt not in a corp you are still butt hurt about would your post still be the same?
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.11 00:24:00 -
[764]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 11/01/2010 00:24:50
Originally by: Marlona Sky
I said neutralizer did I not? I only included nos cause it seems that any bonus that affects neutralizers also affects nos on any other ship. But hey, enjoy your rr bonus. If I posted with an alt not in a corp you are still butt hurt about would your post still be the same?
i didnt mean to troll u dude ^^ but there is probably something u didnt understand, the 2nd bonus (right after capital rr crap) is usually a passive one and, giving the fact 3 out of 4 motherships got it like this, should not be made so it require a module activation SO u do not want a nos/neut bonus cuz it would still apply to 1-2 highslot tops since i dont know ppl who actually fit 2 neuts on their motherships, also there is no capital neut so u wouldnt rly be able to nuke caps cap, just sayn'
and yea :) my post would probably be the same :P since i was commenting on ur idea, not ur corp/alliance :)
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Litel Gril
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 01:08:00 -
[765]
Edited by: Litel Gril on 11/01/2010 01:08:54 lovekebab = NOOB... you're makeing funn out of yourself troll plz keep your 'smart' sudjestions and comments away from forums becouse you may spread your 'smartness'
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.11 01:10:00 -
[766]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 11/01/2010 01:13:02
Originally by: Litel Gril Edited by: Litel Gril on 11/01/2010 01:08:54 lovekebab = NOOB... you're makeing funn out of yourself troll plz keep your 'smart' sudjestions and comments away from forums becouse you may spread your 'smartness'
proove me wrong then... im quite sure what i posted above is pretty accurate but hey, what do i know... :(
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Litel Gril
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 01:16:00 -
[767]
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 11/01/2010 01:12:32
Originally by: Litel Gril Edited by: Litel Gril on 11/01/2010 01:08:54 lovekebab = NOOB... you're makeing funn out of yourself troll plz keep your 'smart' sudjestions and comments away from forums becouse you may spread your 'smartness'
proove me wrong then... im quite sure what i posted above is pretty accurate but hey, what do i know :( i only keep my ms logged off, oh wait :)
trolls like you can't be proven wrong... you'll never get that your ideas are really really stupid
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 01:20:00 -
[768]
Originally by: LoveKebab i didnt mean to troll u dude ^^ but there is probably something u didnt understand, the 2nd bonus (right after capital rr crap) is usually a passive one and, giving the fact 3 out of 4 motherships got it like this, should not be made so it require a module activation SO u do not want a nos/neut bonus cuz it would still apply to 1-2 highslot tops since i dont know ppl who actually fit 2 neuts on their motherships, also there is no capital neut so u wouldnt rly be able to nuke caps cap, just sayn'
and yea :) my post would probably be the same :P since i was commenting on ur idea, not ur corp/alliance :)
Ok. So should the Hel bonus BE passive? Some people want a tank bonus, others something that would increase the bomber/fighter damage. Almost all motherships I know of do fit neuts so I thought maybe something that would benefit those would work. 20 bombers/fighters + 12x effective pimped out heavy neuts that cyle fast and have great range would not be a good combo? After all Minmitar is usually split weapon system anyways.
Other than smartbombs which I really would think would be pointless I can't think of any other weapons that moms use. Just trying to think outside of the box. Minmitar should have something that is unique and not the same thing as one of the other moms and yet, a very worthwhile bonus.
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.11 01:54:00 -
[769]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Ok. So should the Hel bonus BE passive? Some people want a tank bonus, others something that would increase the bomber/fighter damage. Almost all motherships I know of do fit neuts so I thought maybe something that would benefit those would work. 20 bombers/fighters + 12x effective pimped out heavy neuts that cyle fast and have great range would not be a good combo? After all Minmitar is usually split weapon system anyways.
aye, but the weapon systems from subcapital ships dont apply to moms - if they would, u would have nyx with blasters :) if u want pimped neut u can use officer one besides motherships can launch up to 20 neut drones too and they are limited to whatever control range u got (20 of those work pretty well too)
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Other than smartbombs which I really would think would be pointless I can't think of any other weapons that moms use. Just trying to think outside of the box. Minmitar should have something that is unique and not the same thing as one of the other moms and yet, a very worthwhile bonus.
smartbombs on a mothership are pretty cool for selfdefence (from other drones, from ships orbiting under the sbomb range) the problem is there isnt rly anything "unique" left to be given tbh and for now we came up with either dps (rof in this case) or ehp as multiplying other ships bonus is just pointless and wouldnt make hel any better from the other ship with the same bonus
- for example if u would give hel raw dps bonus just as nyx u would still go for nyx as it can have more drones and has better tank type same goes for Aeon and Wyvern - even tho both got the same bonus and pretty much same dronebay ppl r going for aeon more often as it can actually fit something usefull in med slots (tackle, cap rechargers and stuff when the shield tankers not only using meds for tank but if they want more cap stable setups they getting less shield boost - cprs y0)
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Smygie
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Posted - 2010.01.11 04:06:00 -
[770]
Originally by: Litel Gril
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 11/01/2010 01:12:32
Originally by: Litel Gril Edited by: Litel Gril on 11/01/2010 01:08:54 lovekebab = NOOB... you're makeing funn out of yourself troll plz keep your 'smart' sudjestions and comments away from forums becouse you may spread your 'smartness'
proove me wrong then... im quite sure what i posted above is pretty accurate but hey, what do i know :( i only keep my ms logged off, oh wait :)
trolls like you can't be proven wrong... you'll never get that your ideas are really really stupid
Don't listen to this LoveKebab - you make vital points and this dude is just here with 100% troll/smack and 0% content or own ideas/arguments.
I doubt there's any Hel pilot out there that want a neut/nos bonus to their ship, and even if it were I'm sure the great majority doesn't.
Marlona Sky has all right to suggest that however, but LoveKebab may also give his opinion in the matter to why he doesn't like the idea if so is. If there is one person here who shouldn't have right to spread their 'smartness' in a forums it's trolls like Litel Gril.
This isn't CAOD, this is a thread for constructive debate about Capital Ships in Dominion 1.1 - let's keep it that way.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 04:08:00 -
[771]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Ok. So should the Hel bonus BE passive? Some people want a tank bonus, others something that would increase the bomber/fighter damage. Almost all motherships I know of do fit neuts so I thought maybe something that would benefit those would work. 20 bombers/fighters + 12x effective pimped out heavy neuts that cyle fast and have great range would not be a good combo? After all Minmitar is usually split weapon system anyways.
aye, but the weapon systems from subcapital ships dont apply to moms - if they would, u would have nyx with blasters :) if u want pimped neut u can use officer one besides motherships can launch up to 20 neut drones too and they are limited to whatever control range u got (20 of those work pretty well too)
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Other than smartbombs which I really would think would be pointless I can't think of any other weapons that moms use. Just trying to think outside of the box. Minmitar should have something that is unique and not the same thing as one of the other moms and yet, a very worthwhile bonus.
smartbombs on a mothership are pretty cool for selfdefence (from other drones, from ships orbiting under the sbomb range) the problem is there isnt rly anything "unique" left to be given tbh and for now we came up with either dps (rof in this case) or ehp as multiplying other ships bonus is just pointless and wouldnt make hel any better from the other ship with the same bonus
- for example if u would give hel raw dps bonus just as nyx u would still go for nyx as it can have more drones and has better tank type same goes for Aeon and Wyvern - even tho both got the same bonus and pretty much same dronebay ppl r going for aeon more often as it can actually fit something usefull in med slots (tackle, cap rechargers and stuff when the shield tankers not only using meds for tank but if they want more cap stable setups they getting less shield boost - cprs y0)
What I was trying to accomplish was when a Hel pilot fit faction/officer neuts on, they would be as if it was a capital neutralizer.
So besides that, what other options asides from what has already been suggested that would make it worth flying a Hel over the other moms that would not be a joke.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.11 04:28:00 -
[772]
Originally by: Marlona Sky What I was trying to accomplish was when a Hel pilot fit faction/officer neuts on, they would be as if it was a capital neutralizer.
So besides that, what other options asides from what has already been suggested that would make it worth flying a Hel over the other moms that would not be a joke.
With risk of forgeting something I'll list what I recall:
- HP-bonus to Fighter Bombers (CCP's first suggestion) - Fighter Bomber Explosion radius bonus (CCP's second suggestion on SiSi Pre-Dominion) - Fighter Bomber Speed bonus - Fighter and/or Fighter Bomber Damage bonus (both same as Gallente, but in the end mostly ROF) - Shield Tank resist bonus (same as Caldari) - Bonus to Remote ECM Burst (most don't like this due to Caldari is the only race with ECM bonuses)
The thing to remember about the SC's is that they will get massive EHP and Fighter Bombers for capital-killing with high DPS - and therefor be a ship for large fleetbattles mostly. The bonus should give the Hel a bonus that equals the other races bonuses in that field, and as LoveKebab said it should probably be a passive bonus.
For my part I'd like to see a damage bonus, or a split bonus. That mean either be a SC with extra DPS like the Nyx, that would give us two SC's with extra damage and two SC's with extra tank. The bonus I'd like most if I get a Hel is a bonus that give half bonus to Shield Resist and the other half to Fighter and/or Fighter Bomber damage - and that would give Hel a mix between the other versions so it get half a tank bonus and half a dps bonus. In that case it wouldn't be as good as Nyx on DPS, or as good a tank as Caldari - but it wouldn't either have a bonus that would be better used in the butt of a monkey. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 06:17:00 -
[773]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Originally by: Marlona Sky What I was trying to accomplish...
With risk of forgeting something...
I'm not bashing that idea but I just don't want to see yet another Minmitar ship that is so-so at this, and so-so at that. I would prefer a bonus that would mean the Hel is better at <xyz> than the other super carriers.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.11 06:47:00 -
[774]
I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 07:46:00 -
[775]
Edited by: Bobbeh on 11/01/2010 07:56:11
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
Wow Ed Thats Genius.... Unfortunately the HighSec pilots of Eve don't seem to agree with us.
I hope they can finish with the lag monster so that they can get back to MS/SC upgrades
***Edit sorry i forgot to mention Eft and Excel warriors....
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 08:44:00 -
[776]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
U mad?
Originally by: Bobbeh Edited by: Bobbeh on 11/01/2010 07:56:11
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
Wow Ed Thats Genius.... Unfortunately the HighSec pilots of Eve don't seem to agree with us.
I hope they can finish with the lag monster so that they can get back to MS/SC upgrades
***Edit sorry i forgot to mention Eft and Excel warriors....
U mad too?
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.11 08:48:00 -
[777]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
U mad?
Originally by: Bobbeh Edited by: Bobbeh on 11/01/2010 07:56:11
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
Wow Ed Thats Genius.... Unfortunately the HighSec pilots of Eve don't seem to agree with us.
I hope they can finish with the lag monster so that they can get back to MS/SC upgrades
***Edit sorry i forgot to mention Eft and Excel warriors....
U mad too?
Not really, I just think everything you've posted in this thread is a waste of space.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 09:00:00 -
[778]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
U mad?
Originally by: Bobbeh Edited by: Bobbeh on 11/01/2010 07:56:11
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
Wow Ed Thats Genius.... Unfortunately the HighSec pilots of Eve don't seem to agree with us.
I hope they can finish with the lag monster so that they can get back to MS/SC upgrades
***Edit sorry i forgot to mention Eft and Excel warriors....
U mad too?
Not really, I just think everything you've posted in this thread is a waste of space.
Kinda like when you log into TQ.
If you want to continue this forum warrior chest beating we can take it to COAD if you like. I will still continue to come up with crazy of the wall idea to get shot down everywhere else, including this thread. You can either have constructive feedback or continue your, "No!! Boost what I am currently flying and nerf everything else!" cry baby attitude.
Something tells me your incapable of constructive feedback. Please prove me wrong.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 09:07:00 -
[779]
Im not Mad at all i just find it funny when people critique a ship they don't. Can't or Won't fly. Example A) A person lives in Empire and Run Missions and empire war all day, you cant use a SC/MS cause you live in Space that denies caps.
Example B) 8 MSP toon thats never flown a Cap, let alone a super cap, due to lack of minimum skills required.
Example C) A Player who does not wish to Spend the time acquiring a toon, and fitting and ship at large isk expense.
All of these Players Know nothing of supercaps and how they behave or handle in a fight, or how to improve them.
If they were gonna change the Hulk to something could i make an opinion sure, would i actually know whats best for the ship and miners, maybe, would i portray i know more about mining than a player whos mined his entire eve career no.
What we are saying is How can a thread be productive and constructive if people who know very little to nothing about the ships in question, voice their opinions as best. Do i understand its your right sure, but why if you have no want or need to fly a MS/SC Why have an opinion based on no experience.
Thats just me tho.....
Anyways Can we get an update on dominion 1.1 :D
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.11 09:22:00 -
[780]
Marlona "I have an opinion listen to me guys" Sky
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 09:34:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Bobbeh Anyways Can we get an update on dominion 1.1 :D
Sure, there still will be no reason to fly a Hel over any of the other super carriers.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.11 09:37:00 -
[782]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Bobbeh Anyways Can we get an update on dominion 1.1 :D
Sure, there still will be no reason to fly a Hel over any of the other super carriers.
Good thing choosing a supercarrier won't ever be your concern.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.01.11 09:58:00 -
[783]
Agreeing with ed.
also, about dominion 1.1..
ETA PLOX
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.11 10:12:00 -
[784]
I can also feel very much not intrested in some ideas that are made from to little knowledge, but there is no reason to be rude about it and try to dictate rules for who got right to post.
I know for a fact that owning a mothership doesn't make you any expert on facts or the most creative thinker, so one cannot exclude all peoples ideas that's not from such mouths.
It's also a fact that thinking outside the box can be a good thing - hence people in all businesses brainstorm with all options opened to try and grab some vital ideas to work from. It's nothing dangerous in that process - quite the opposite accually.
If ideas come from ppl who doesn't know enough or in some way are unerasonable they will most certain be refused by CCP. I know they can be REALLY slow to fix stuff sometimes, but mostly they balances stuff in really wise ways. Not in ways that make everyone happy - but that would be impossible due to the level of which a large percentage of the community is crybabies that never will be pleased.
We all wanna hear more from CCP in this matter - I again ask that ppl in here to not make this to a CAOD-look-a-like-whine-thread so CCP ignores all that's been said lately and pull out again or something. It's not hard to be constructive, just have ideas and motivate them - or listen to others and oppose them with arguments. Perhaps even put in a smilie
With much love and a flower //ByF _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
hatchette
Caldari Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2010.01.11 14:29:00 -
[785]
First impressions of fighter bombers...
They are weak at lvl2 skill. Hope lvl4 and 5 will be much better. I can delegate them. Don't think this is supposed to be.
Aren't they supposed to be able to hit an onlined POS?
Quote: Notify Your drones cannot engage Minmatar Control Tower since it is within the range of a forcefield you are barred from entering.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.01.11 14:34:00 -
[786]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I have an awesome idea. Let's get people who don't own or haven't owned supercaps the **** out of this thread. Like you Marlona
funny.. because I don t see the word SUPER at the title of the thread
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.11 14:56:00 -
[787]
Originally by: hatchette Aren't they supposed to be able to hit an onlined POS?
Quote: Notify Your drones cannot engage Minmatar Control Tower since it is within the range of a forcefield you are barred from entering.
nop
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.11 16:11:00 -
[788]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: hatchette Aren't they supposed to be able to hit an onlined POS?
That there be dread territory
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 16:41:00 -
[789]
Originally by: hatchette I can delegate them. Don't think this is supposed to be.
CCP has said that you will NOT be able to delegate them but I was able to do it just fine. Not sure if they changed thier mind or they have taken a break away from working on super carriers.
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keuel
Gallente Imperium .H.E.M.P.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 01:00:00 -
[790]
well... I don¦t own a SC (it¦s redic btw, let alone it be called ms, super carrier is completly redic), but I saw people using it in a capital gang at sisi... We managed to kill 2 other MS and 1 Titan with ease with only 4 MS, 4 Hics, 1 carrier and 1 dread or 2, most DPS came on from the MS tho... IMO, it¦s completly overpowered, in a gang, it¦s worst yet. Imagine 20 MS gang alone... The gang was able to even **** a carrier and a dread in question of seconds... I donpt know why CCP is doing that tho. I remember capital ships never were meant to be able to kill each other alone and CCP implement a module which can 1 hit kill anything that¦s not a titan and a MS. Which is also redic. I think CCP should do a slight nerf on fbs DPS, like 6~7k dps (i¦m been very good) because they¦re going to proliferate too quick at the sandbox. Oh, and btw, I liked the sig boost on the dreads... but why the hell carriers got sig bump too? And that Mass adition on the siege was cool, but if you hit siege while moving, it will keep moving for long time, why not add something like the warp dis that can make the ship go to 0 almost instanteneous and same time very fat to not move? And I think CCP should look more at the DD, it¦s still beng redic, very redic...
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 01:44:00 -
[791]
Originally by: keuel well... I don¦t own a SC...
Oh crap, don't let Ed see this. As per ED, you are not allowed to have ANY input in this thread at all. None. Zip. Nada.
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True Cyn
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Posted - 2010.01.12 02:43:00 -
[792]
That's just redic
Make motherships........I mean Superdupercarriers BIGGER in respect to their Superduper name
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keuel
Gallente Imperium .H.E.M.P.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 03:01:00 -
[793]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: keuel well... I don¦t own a SC...
Oh crap, don't let Ed see this. As per ED, you are not allowed to have ANY input in this thread at all. None. Zip. Nada.
LOL, I don¦t think yu need to own one, just go outside and look the ones who have one themselves and get your own conclusions.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.12 05:41:00 -
[794]
Originally by: True Cyn That's just redic
Make motherships........I mean Superdupercarriers BIGGER in respect to their Superduper name
This unfortunately takes time, they can't simply make them bigger because then the skin for the model will look terrible. They have to enlarge the model and completely remake a new skin for it then release it to us. So I expect any sort of enlarging to our e ***** to be some months away.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 06:02:00 -
[795]
Originally by: keuel well... I don¦t own a SC (it¦s redic btw, let alone it be called ms, super carrier is completly redic), but I saw people using it in a capital gang at sisi... We managed to kill 2 other MS and 1 Titan with ease with only 4 MS, 4 Hics, 1 carrier and 1 dread or 2, most DPS came on from the MS tho... IMO, it¦s completly overpowered, in a gang, it¦s worst yet. Imagine 20 MS gang alone... The gang was able to even **** a carrier and a dread in question of seconds... I donpt know why CCP is doing that tho. I remember capital ships never were meant to be able to kill each other alone and CCP implement a module which can 1 hit kill anything that¦s not a titan and a MS. Which is also redic. I think CCP should do a slight nerf on fbs DPS, like 6~7k dps (i¦m been very good) because they¦re going to proliferate too quick at the sandbox. Oh, and btw, I liked the sig boost on the dreads... but why the hell carriers got sig bump too? And that Mass adition on the siege was cool, but if you hit siege while moving, it will keep moving for long time, why not add something like the warp dis that can make the ship go to 0 almost instanteneous and same time very fat to not move? And I think CCP should look more at the DD, it¦s still beng redic, very redic...
Isnt the SC supposed to be a Capital Killer, isnt that its role....
A couple pretty big ships and a really big ship vs more pretty big ships some tackles and some somewhat big ships, dont you think the later would win? lets see a 1 ms beat 3 titans... dont think it will happen
Proliferate... not really seeing as theres no safe sov to build em anymore... And they will still cost several billion to produce and fit. I agree that it sucks that you can one shot a capital, but then again i think it is needed with dread blobs breaking 120-150 dreads in a fleet, there needs to be a way to kill them quickly....
A MS/SC on its own wont do much cant tackle its slow and cant delegate FB's, Fb's cant kill stuff smaller than a BS very efficiently. Few dreads and a titan and your day can be ruined very quickly. Not to mention sure FB's are alot of dps but a few bombs and no more fb's no more MS/SC DPS....
When you compare caps to super caps you gotta member they are super caps...
Anything can kill anything alone it just a question of time... A frigate can kill a bs if it is fit for speed and dps and the bs scrammed.
Are MS/SC's powerful sure... Are Titans powerful sure are.... Is a 150 dread gang gonna melt either one of them most definitely, How bout 10 MS/SC's... More than likely how bout 40..... maybe depends on the reps and what the gang consists of, nyx's and hels yea, aeons and wyverns maybe not as fast. Put a few bombers in there with the dreads and the MS/SC's don't stand a chance.... even with close to even numbers cause once the fbs are gone they are dead. What im getting at is sure the numbers in the CFFA are interesting they dont directly reflect what will happen on tranq.
Before all it took to 1 volley a cap was like 60 dreads fit for damage... Titans were warped onto grids and immediately off due to the lack of HP and MS/SC's never left the pos, because they were an instant primary and dreads would destroy them, in a minute or less.
Now the tables will turn there will be effective means of countering the dread blob, without having to have a much much greater number of dreads to survive the initial jump in and siege cycle.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.12 07:07:00 -
[796]
As Bobbeh says we will probably see much more kills on the capital battle field hence forth, and I also think that's good.
Should be much more intresting after Dominion 1.1 also when we'll see two kinda supercarriers on the field more and more also. Since they who don't use them will most likelly loose the battle - and on the other hand those who do use them risk feeding the enemy with chance of nice supercapital kills.
In this context the supercarriers needs to be good - otherwise we'll not see enough of them on the battlefield.
Probably would the titans need a boost to their damage bonus since noone will fit damagemods on titans I guess. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.12 07:29:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: keuel well... I don¦t own a SC...
Oh crap, don't let Ed see this. As per ED, you are not allowed to have ANY input in this thread at all. None. Zip. Nada.
Actually he is an amazing example of why empire pubbies shouldn't be voicing their opinion. He is complaining because a ship designed to kill capitals is *gasp* killing carriers and dreads when they are in gangs.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 07:36:00 -
[798]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: keuel well... I don¦t own a SC...
Oh crap, don't let Ed see this. As per ED, you are not allowed to have ANY input in this thread at all. None. Zip. Nada.
Actually he is an amazing example of why empire pubbies shouldn't be voicing their opinion. He is complaining because a ship designed to kill capitals is *gasp* killing carriers and dreads when they are in gangs.
His $15 a month says otherwise.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.12 07:44:00 -
[799]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: keuel well... I don¦t own a SC...
Oh crap, don't let Ed see this. As per ED, you are not allowed to have ANY input in this thread at all. None. Zip. Nada.
Actually he is an amazing example of why empire pubbies shouldn't be voicing their opinion. He is complaining because a ship designed to kill capitals is *gasp* killing carriers and dreads when they are in gangs.
His $15 a month says otherwise.
It's cute that you probably actually believe that.
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D Solarz
The Executives
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Posted - 2010.01.12 07:46:00 -
[800]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: True Cyn That's just redic
Make motherships........I mean Superdupercarriers BIGGER in respect to their Superduper name
This unfortunately takes time, they can't simply make them bigger because then the skin for the model will look terrible. They have to enlarge the model and completely remake a new skin for it then release it to us. So I expect any sort of enlarging to our e ***** to be some months away.
idk how true this is. i seem to remember a certain midget carrier that had its model increased in size some patches back. pretty sure all it takes is to expand the model.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 08:05:00 -
[801]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
His $15 a month says otherwise.
P.Sure its CCP's 15$'s the minute he decided to play.... His 15 is next months sub.
If As the Atlas man said, If SC/MS were mediocre they would be used reward wouldnt out weigh the risk. They gotta be awesome Cap Killers for someone to wanna put a 14 billion dollar asset out against a dread gang.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.12 08:11:00 -
[802]
Originally by: D Solarz
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: True Cyn That's just redic
Make motherships........I mean Superdupercarriers BIGGER in respect to their Superduper name
This unfortunately takes time, they can't simply make them bigger because then the skin for the model will look terrible. They have to enlarge the model and completely remake a new skin for it then release it to us. So I expect any sort of enlarging to our e ***** to be some months away.
idk how true this is. i seem to remember a certain midget carrier that had its model increased in size some patches back. pretty sure all it takes is to expand the model.
Wasn't that the Chimera? Wasn't that expanded during the old graphics? Couldn't the premium graphics be different in it's "bendy" abilitys?
Isn't really our problem how hard it is to fix though - but last thing said in the matter was that the topic was going to be taken to discussion at least. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.12 08:15:00 -
[803]
Originally by: D Solarz
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: True Cyn That's just redic
Make motherships........I mean Superdupercarriers BIGGER in respect to their Superduper name
This unfortunately takes time, they can't simply make them bigger because then the skin for the model will look terrible. They have to enlarge the model and completely remake a new skin for it then release it to us. So I expect any sort of enlarging to our e ***** to be some months away.
idk how true this is. i seem to remember a certain midget carrier that had its model increased in size some patches back. pretty sure all it takes is to expand the model.
That was back before they started being so obsessed with how every ship star and planet looked. You can extract the model+ skin and see for yourself what it looks like blown up. The effects are quite horrific.
We had to extract it when this was made.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 08:23:00 -
[804]
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: Marlona Sky
His $15 a month says otherwise.
P.Sure its CCP's 15$'s the minute he decided to play.... His 15 is next months sub.
If As the Atlas man said, If SC/MS were mediocre they would be used reward wouldnt out weigh the risk. They gotta be awesome Cap Killers for someone to wanna put a 14 billion dollar asset out against a dread gang.
I am in no way agreeing with the guy. lol
Someone drops 20 ships worth 15b each, they better be melting some carrier/dreads. (300 bill vs. 1 bill) It is like when you have 300 bs all shooting 1 bs, the one bs will simply vaporize. The guy mostly likely is not that familiar with what role CCP is trying to make super carriers fit into.
Ed is right about size of ships. It is not as simple as just 'click and drag' the to be bigger like a window on the screen.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 08:32:00 -
[805]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
I am in no way agreeing with the guy. lol
Someone drops 20 ships worth 15b each, they better be melting some carrier/dreads. (300 bill vs. 1 bill) It is like when you have 300 bs all shooting 1 bs, the one bs will simply vaporize. The guy mostly likely is not that familiar with what role CCP is trying to make super carriers fit into.
Ed is right about size of ships. It is not as simple as just 'click and drag' the to be bigger like a window on the screen.
Glad we Agree on all the above points :) and who wants an ugly badly patterned epeen? no im glad that they said they would consider the size issue, and if they take their time making them look perdy then fine by me.
My Biggest concern is the drop in shields when you jump in or change a gang booster. Today on SiSi i loaded up my wyvern and sat there repping myself for 5 minutes after jumping into fd.... not cool, and if it had been tranq and we'd be hot dropping how would that have been....
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 08:37:00 -
[806]
Originally by: Bobbeh stuff about shields
I can't seem to find anywhere the reason why shields do not automatically apply when joining gang/entering system. Is there some way to abuse a feature like that? i.e. joining, leaving, joining, etc. a gang to regain low shields to full shields?
If not, then it should apply the same way as armor. What is the big deal?
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 08:42:00 -
[807]
Edited by: Bobbeh on 12/01/2010 08:43:16
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Bobbeh stuff about shields
I can't seem to find anywhere the reason why shields do not automatically apply when joining gang/entering system. Is there some way to abuse a feature like that? i.e. joining, leaving, joining, etc. a gang to regain low shields to full shields?
If not, then it should apply the same way as armor. What is the big deal?
It applies like this
so you have x amount of shields, when you jump into a system the fleet bonus of Y is re applied. So your total Shields is X+Y but your Shield Starts at X Not at X+Y. This means that when a shield tanked ship jumps into a system its missing Y percentage of its tank before it even engages in a fight. This also happens when fleet booster changes, Or if you Discon and rejoin the fleet. Armor hit points are Calculated the same but THey start at X+Y when they jump in so no repping is needed
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.12 08:42:00 -
[808]
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 12/01/2010 08:43:35
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: Marlona Sky
I am in no way agreeing with the guy. lol
Someone drops 20 ships worth 15b each, they better be melting some carrier/dreads. (300 bill vs. 1 bill) It is like when you have 300 bs all shooting 1 bs, the one bs will simply vaporize. The guy mostly likely is not that familiar with what role CCP is trying to make super carriers fit into.
Ed is right about size of ships. It is not as simple as just 'click and drag' the to be bigger like a window on the screen.
Glad we Agree on all the above points :) and who wants an ugly badly patterned epeen? no im glad that they said they would consider the size issue, and if they take their time making them look perdy then fine by me.
My Biggest concern is the drop in shields when you jump in or change a gang booster. Today on SiSi i loaded up my wyvern and sat there repping myself for 5 minutes after jumping into fd.... not cool, and if it had been tranq and we'd be hot dropping how would that have been....
I keep a set of shield relays and shield rechargers in my CHA. When I log in I simply swap out to them for a minute or so and swap back when I reach full shields. Realistically if youre going into a hotdrop you can just rely on your other carriers to help cap you off. Assuming cynoing in a mass of MS doesnt send you all over the grid.
The level of dreads required to make that 15-20% shields really matter means you were probably dead to begin with.
The new siege mechanics are going to allow me to do some hilarious things with Phoenix as well.
CCP stated quite a while ago that the way shield leadership skills applied are much hte same as billboards. They never could fix billboards they just replaced them. Can't really do that with shields without completely changing the mechanics of the game.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 09:01:00 -
[809]
Originally by: Bobbeh Edited by: Bobbeh on 12/01/2010 08:43:16
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Bobbeh stuff about shields
I can't seem to find anywhere the reason why shields do not automatically apply when joining gang/entering system. Is there some way to abuse a feature like that? i.e. joining, leaving, joining, etc. a gang to regain low shields to full shields?
If not, then it should apply the same way as armor. What is the big deal?
It applies like this
so you have x amount of shields, when you jump into a system the fleet bonus of Y is re applied. So your total Shields is X+Y but your Shield Starts at X Not at X+Y. This means that when a shield tanked ship jumps into a system its missing Y percentage of its tank before it even engages in a fight. This also happens when fleet booster changes, Or if you Discon and rejoin the fleet. Armor hit points are Calculated the same but THey start at X+Y when they jump in so no repping is needed
I know how the game mechanic works. My question is what was the motivation behind the decision to make it the way it is, instead of like the way armor applies when in a gang.
CCP?
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.12 09:07:00 -
[810]
I mean the actual code behind it, not what we see happen in game. They may no longer have the ability to alter that specific bit of code.
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Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.01.12 10:42:00 -
[811]
To everyone still whining about the name: it makes sense to call them Supercarriers, only because CCP is obviously making a new, true Mothership, that does actually have an adequate role, right? :)
Other than that, I'm loving the changes. But please make FBs not die in 1/over9000 seconds :)
Only thing left for me to ask... When is the patch coming out?
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Tairon Usaro
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.12 11:01:00 -
[812]
Originally by: keuel
We managed to kill 2 other MS and 1 Titan with ease with only 4 MS, 4 Hics, 1 carrier and 1 dread or 2, most DPS came on from the MS tho... IMO, it¦s completly overpowered, in a gang, it¦s worst yet. Imagine 20 MS gang alone... The gang was able to even **** a carrier and a dread in question of seconds...
throw in a decent squad stealth bombers and have look what happens ..... MS declawed ...
________________________________________________ Some days i loose, some days the others win ... |
Iroko Kamba
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Posted - 2010.01.12 11:21:00 -
[813]
I play this game since so long and this Nerf for Dreadnoughts catched me one more time on wrong foot. There are just too many changes. The list gets longer and longer of ships, which I have to refit and can no more use like I did. And I see it in the whole community. Everybody is using dreadnoughts now less than before and it sucks. POS-warfare with Battleships always sucked. Why this step back?
Dreadnoughts seem no more able to defend against conventional ships good enough. I would have to run again a lot of tests to find out with the new data. Now I am again just confused.
Can anybody tell me examples, what Dreadnoughts can hit and what not? Not anything, that moves?
I am with a main in a big alliance. It is a little frustrating to be a good dreadnought pilot (skillwise) and see it almost no more in use.
How does it hit moving other Capitals?
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.12 13:51:00 -
[814]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 12/01/2010 13:54:17
Originally by: keuel well... I don¦t own a SC but I saw people using it in a capital gangs...
quoting the best part ... i totally stopped reading ur post at this point
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Pharon Reichter
The Fallen Angels Unit
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Posted - 2010.01.12 13:56:00 -
[815]
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 12/01/2010 13:54:17
Originally by: keuel well... I don¦t own a SC but I saw people using it in a capital gangs...
quoting the best part ... i totally stopped reading ur post at this point
Supporting this post , this quote and the thread ;) |
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.12 14:38:00 -
[816]
Originally by: hatchette I can delegate them. Don't think this is supposed to be.
This is a bug and is being squashed. You will not be able to assign Fighter Bombers to your buddy in a Tristan.
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.12 14:45:00 -
[817]
ETA for this to hit TQ ?
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.12 15:09:00 -
[818]
Originally by: LoveKebab ETA for this to hit TQ ?
Soon.
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.01.12 15:33:00 -
[819]
Are the Capchanges the only balance changes coming with 1.1 or any other (Rockets for example) aswell?
BTW, would it be possible to make a "ask the Dev thread" again in near future?
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.12 16:07:00 -
[820]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: LoveKebab ETA for this to hit TQ ?
Soon.
Perhaps you could go back to page 17 here where you took off and listen to stuff that's been said and comment on it. Especially the Hel is still very broken compared to the other SC's. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.01.12 17:29:00 -
[821]
I tried to read all of this before posting, but I think I should just say:
Thank you, thank you for re-fixing the Naglfar. Nice to see you back, Abathur.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 23:43:00 -
[822]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: LoveKebab ETA for this to hit TQ ?
Soon.
YAY!!!
On the shield line, maybe they could as a 5 second quick regen period for all shield when bonus's get reapplied
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achoura
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Posted - 2010.01.12 23:54:00 -
[823]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: hatchette I can delegate them. Don't think this is supposed to be.
This is a bug and is being squashed. You will not be able to assign Fighter Bombers to your buddy in a Tristan.
While you're busy squashing bugs could you make the carrier range bonus apply to sentry drones too? As it stands I have to fit drone links (not going to happen) just to make my wardens hit their optimal. Seems strange that the capital had less range than a hac despite throwing fighters so far.
Some mid range defence would be nice, or simple clarification of whether this is a bug or intended behaviour . ***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2010.01.13 09:32:00 -
[824]
I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.13 10:37:00 -
[825]
Originally by: Dursun Idris I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
Good thing this hasn't been addressed in this thread by devs specifically
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.01.13 12:02:00 -
[826]
Originally by: Dursun Idris I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
It's been said over and over again. We are NOT getting a turret only nag.
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Yuki Michi
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.01.13 12:05:00 -
[827]
Bobby made a good point there regarding fleet fights.
I would like to ask/say the following. As being a Hell pilot. I would like to see a very small bonus for capital remotes. Or a added remote range to capital energytransfer.
I would like to see a greater bonus on fighter bombers than the Thanatos has. They have both less HP. so that will make Hell mjummie too :)
Minnie will be primary anyways, and than at least can do good damage :)
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John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.13 14:19:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Dursun Idris I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
It's been said over and over again. We are NOT getting a turret only nag.
I am/was very happy with the Nag skills. You need to do missile/projectile for other smaller ships anyways. The skill queue isn't that bad. Deal with it. I did it, so can you.
Still one of the sexiest ships in EVE.
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2010.01.13 15:02:00 -
[829]
Edited by: Dursun Idris on 13/01/2010 15:07:14
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Dursun Idris I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
It's been said over and over again. We are NOT getting a turret only nag.
I fail to understand why are they so stubborn on this... It doesn't even need a new ship model.
Originally by: John Zorg
I am/was very happy with the Nag skills. You need to do missile/projectile for other smaller ships anyways. The skill queue isn't that bad. Deal with it. I did it, so can you.
Still one of the sexiest ships in EVE.
Apart from generic missile skills, you don't need to get citadel cruise 5 (And c.torpedos) for smaller ships. It's takes soo long to being able to fly it properly and annoying long to master.
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New ones
Caldari Koln united
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Posted - 2010.01.13 16:15:00 -
[830]
Can we stick Nozh in jail before he destroys things?
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ctttttttt
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.01.14 00:59:00 -
[831]
Good looking changes!!!
wtb new capital ship type to replace the "mothership" title.
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SickSeven
Nova Aquilae
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Posted - 2010.01.14 07:07:00 -
[832]
(i know i'm late but...)
PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.14 07:56:00 -
[833]
Originally by: Dursun Idris Edited by: Dursun Idris on 13/01/2010 15:08:19
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Dursun Idris I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
It's been said over and over again. We are NOT getting a turret only nag.
I fail to understand why are they so stubborn on this... It doesn't even need a new ship model.
Originally by: John Zorg
I am/was very happy with the Nag skills. You need to do missile/projectile for other smaller ships anyways. The skill queue isn't that bad. Deal with it. I did it, so can you.
Still one of the sexiest ships in EVE.
Apart from generic missile skills, you don't need to get citadel cruise 5 (And c.torpedos) for smaller ships. It's takes soo long to being able to fly it properly and annoying long to master. And then it will get much same with other dreads.
They specifically said it WILL require a new model and they aren't willing to do that.
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sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.14 08:29:00 -
[834]
Edited by: sue denim on 14/01/2010 08:29:15
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Dursun Idris I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
It's been said over and over again. We are NOT getting a turret only nag.
Why? Because minmatar are traditionally split with the weapons? Not every ship follows that, for example the maelstrom. And caps are hardly normal ships, you don't see them speed demoning around like the normal minmatar boats.
I understand the graphical part, but a marauder style bonus has been brought up on many occasions and I don't understand why it wouldn't work. It's a kick in the pants for minmatar capital pirates, it makes no rp sense that minmatar designers would handicap their ships just because "that's how it's always done" and it makes no balance sense that minmatar pilots continually get a the short end of the stick for our capitals.
Different types of tank to train for while every other race can just train straight up from carrier to dread except for realistically only advanced weapon upgrades 5. Very heavy missile skills that many minmatar pilots don't have and a consistently **** dread. Sure it's getting a bit of a fix again, but for YEARS it sucked **** then it was ok for a couple of months till we were told "lawl it looks bad but if you fit a gyro it does more dmg!1!!1!"
Naglafars are the least flown capital for a multitude of VERY good reasons, and just addressing one of the major issues leave plenty untended, and moves pilots in training AWAY from minmatar capitals even if it means going off their chosen path (not like they won't make up the SP on the extra skills they don't have to train anyway.)
It's a load of bull****.
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.14 08:51:00 -
[835]
the QQ meter is filling up
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.14 09:09:00 -
[836]
Originally by: sue denim Edited by: sue denim on 14/01/2010 08:29:15
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Dursun Idris I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
It's been said over and over again. We are NOT getting a turret only nag.
Why? Because minmatar are traditionally split with the weapons? Not every ship follows that, for example the maelstrom. And caps are hardly normal ships, you don't see them speed demoning around like the normal minmatar boats.
I understand the graphical part, but a marauder style bonus has been brought up on many occasions and I don't understand why it wouldn't work. It's a kick in the pants for minmatar capital pirates, it makes no rp sense that minmatar designers would handicap their ships just because "that's how it's always done" and it makes no balance sense that minmatar pilots continually get a the short end of the stick for our capitals.
Different types of tank to train for while every other race can just train straight up from carrier to dread except for realistically only advanced weapon upgrades 5. Very heavy missile skills that many minmatar pilots don't have and a consistently **** dread. Sure it's getting a bit of a fix again, but for YEARS it sucked **** then it was ok for a couple of months till we were told "lawl it looks bad but if you fit a gyro it does more dmg!1!!1!"
Naglafars are the least flown capital for a multitude of VERY good reasons, and just addressing one of the major issues leave plenty untended, and moves pilots in training AWAY from minmatar capitals even if it means going off their chosen path (not like they won't make up the SP on the extra skills they don't have to train anyway.)
It's a load of bull****.
Sue Everyone tried to warn you.....
Its not gonna happen cause CCP is not redoing the model, and the skin. its been Hashed and Rehashed hundreds of time, it will always be the way it is. i fly a Nag, im not complaining its a wicked dread sure split ammo sucks but im never last on the km, sometimes im very close to first . With the Fixes proposed it will be a wicked dread to fly.
It will NEVER be a Single weapons ship unless you fly crippled, then alonzi.
If you'd kindly paid attention to the Naglfar CHanges thread few months ago you woulda seen them say this over and over and over.
------
Back to Super Caps :D
Hey CCp hows that Hel Bonus coming?
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sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.14 10:18:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: sue denim Edited by: sue denim on 14/01/2010 08:29:15
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Dursun Idris I'm really getting tired of saying this over and over but...
Please. Naglfar's skill requirements were higher than all other dreads already, and now they are just insane...
Turret... only... naglfar...
It's been said over and over again. We are NOT getting a turret only nag.
Why? Because minmatar are traditionally split with the weapons? Not every ship follows that, for example the maelstrom. And caps are hardly normal ships, you don't see them speed demoning around like the normal minmatar boats.
I understand the graphical part, but a marauder style bonus has been brought up on many occasions and I don't understand why it wouldn't work. It's a kick in the pants for minmatar capital pirates, it makes no rp sense that minmatar designers would handicap their ships just because "that's how it's always done" and it makes no balance sense that minmatar pilots continually get a the short end of the stick for our capitals.
Different types of tank to train for while every other race can just train straight up from carrier to dread except for realistically only advanced weapon upgrades 5. Very heavy missile skills that many minmatar pilots don't have and a consistently **** dread. Sure it's getting a bit of a fix again, but for YEARS it sucked **** then it was ok for a couple of months till we were told "lawl it looks bad but if you fit a gyro it does more dmg!1!!1!"
Naglafars are the least flown capital for a multitude of VERY good reasons, and just addressing one of the major issues leave plenty untended, and moves pilots in training AWAY from minmatar capitals even if it means going off their chosen path (not like they won't make up the SP on the extra skills they don't have to train anyway.)
It's a load of bull****.
Sue Everyone tried to warn you.....
Its not gonna happen cause CCP is not redoing the model, and the skin. its been Hashed and Rehashed hundreds of time, it will always be the way it is. i fly a Nag, im not complaining its a wicked dread sure split ammo sucks but im never last on the km, sometimes im very close to first . With the Fixes proposed it will be a wicked dread to fly.
It will NEVER be a Single weapons ship unless you fly crippled, then alonzi.
If you'd kindly paid attention to the Naglfar CHanges thread few months ago you woulda seen them say this over and over and over.
------
Back to Super Caps :D
Hey CCp hows that Hel Bonus coming?
l2r
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2010.01.14 11:24:00 -
[838]
Edited by: Dursun Idris on 14/01/2010 11:27:02
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
They specifically said it WILL require a new model and they aren't willing to do that.
It WILL NOT require a new model if it gets a marauder like bonus on it's 2 turrets, like a %50-75 one. And a fix to it's power grid and cpu (get lower) and minus a low slot.
Originally by: LoveKebab the QQ meter is filling up
It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.14 11:30:00 -
[839]
Originally by: Dursun Idris Edited by: Dursun Idris on 14/01/2010 11:27:02
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
They specifically said it WILL require a new model and they aren't willing to do that.
It WILL NOT require a new model if it gets a marauder like bonus on it's 2 turrets, like a %50-75 one. And a fix to it's power grid and cpu (get lower) and minus a low slot.
Originally by: LoveKebab the QQ meter is filling up
It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort.
They have also specifically said no to this.
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.01.14 13:20:00 -
[840]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Dursun Idris
It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort.
They have also specifically said no to this.
Yes. In a childish "stamping my foot means NO!" manner with no reason given despite the repeated threads detailing how terrible a "versatile" dread is in EVE.
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EliteSlave
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.14 13:56:00 -
[841]
Problems with a marauder style bonus would be,
1) They will carry less ammo
2) Less Ammo means more Stront.
3) More stront means more cycles.
4) More Cycles, means unbalances the other dreads.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2010.01.14 15:45:00 -
[842]
Originally by: EliteSlave Problems with a marauder style bonus would be,
1) They will carry less ammo
2) Less Ammo means more Stront.
3) More stront means more cycles.
4) More Cycles, means unbalances the other dreads.
^this
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.14 16:02:00 -
[843]
Originally by: EliteSlave Problems with a marauder style bonus would be,
1) They will carry less ammo
2) Less Ammo means more Stront.
3) More stront means more cycles.
4) More Cycles, means unbalances the other dreads.
Lower the cargohold, problem solved..
However, the Nag is split weapon, and i see no problems in this. Minmatar have always been rather sp demanding to fly properly, and the Nag is no different..
Also, if you did add a third turret to the Nag, what about the Phoenix? Its still horrible when not within 50km or around that.
Deal with the Nag or train another dread.. Imo..
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.01.14 18:09:00 -
[844]
Originally by: Sunset Rogue
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Dursun Idris
It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort.
They have also specifically said no to this.
Yes. In a childish "stamping my foot means NO!" manner with no reason given despite the repeated threads detailing how terrible a "versatile" dread is in EVE.
You know its THEIR game.. THEIR game designers with THEIR concepts. We ask for changes to keep the ship BALANCED. But the CONCEPT of the ship is completely up to them to decide!
If you don t want to use missiles.. jsut do not fit them,...
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.14 19:13:00 -
[845]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Deal with the Nag or train another dread.. Imo..
well Said Apol
everyone knows its the Best cause its Vertical!
How do FB's look with skill at 4 on the SISI?
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sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.14 19:38:00 -
[846]
Originally by: EliteSlave Problems with a marauder style bonus would be,
1) They will carry less ammo
2) Less Ammo means more Stront.
3) More stront means more cycles.
4) More Cycles, means unbalances the other dreads.
yes of course that 100 or so m3 is gonna be game breaking.... congrats for bringing up the easiest fix balance issue ever.
And as someone else brought up while it was "considered" according to the other thread no reason as to why it was rejected was ever brought up. It seems like a great solution, if they had a specific and good reason for shooting it down and explained that to people I'm sure everyone would shutup about it (well most) :|
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.14 19:55:00 -
[847]
Originally by: Sunset Rogue
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Dursun Idris
It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort.
They have also specifically said no to this.
Yes. In a childish "stamping my foot means NO!" manner with no reason given despite the repeated threads detailing how terrible a "versatile" dread is in EVE.
You realize that this is their property, this game represents years of their hard work if they dont want to **** on it with what they dont view as a good change, guess what? That is completely within their right as game developers. They could change every ship in the game to 1 armor, 1 shield, and 1 structure and there isn't a damn thing you could do about but quit ya big baby.
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sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.14 20:16:00 -
[848]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Sunset Rogue
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Dursun Idris
It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort.
They have also specifically said no to this.
Yes. In a childish "stamping my foot means NO!" manner with no reason given despite the repeated threads detailing how terrible a "versatile" dread is in EVE.
You realize that this is their property, this game represents years of their hard work if they dont want to **** on it with what they dont view as a good change, guess what? That is completely within their right as game developers. They could change every ship in the game to 1 armor, 1 shield, and 1 structure and there isn't a damn thing you could do about but quit ya big baby.
Yes but as goonswarm is well aware of whining incessantly about something that needs changing is the way to get it done.
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Red Woodson
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2010.01.14 20:34:00 -
[849]
While on the subject of Minmatar Caps, any chance the nidhoggur will be looked at any time soon. It is the last armor tanking minmatar cap. And when compared to the thanatos, its closest competitor among the other carriers, it has:
the same slot layout and cap/sec recharge at peak less PG, CPU, drone bay, EHP, total capacitor, sensor strength, and (slightly less) targeting range better top speed, agility, scan res, sig radius and capacitor recharge time
Considering top speed, agility and sig radius generally aren't as useful for a cap, the different tanking layer to other minmatar caps, and the RR amount bonus that combines with lowest ehp to ensure they make tempting primaries, the nidhoggur seems to fall short comapared to the thanatos overall. As CCP is already looking at capitals, this seems as good a time as any for them to take a look at the nidhogger. |
sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.14 20:39:00 -
[850]
Originally by: Red Woodson While on the subject of Minmatar Caps, any chance the nidhoggur will be looked at any time soon. It is the last armor tanking minmatar cap. And when compared to the thanatos, its closest competitor among the other carriers, it has:
the same slot layout and cap/sec recharge at peak less PG, CPU, drone bay, EHP, total capacitor, sensor strength, and (slightly less) targeting range better top speed, agility, scan res, sig radius and capacitor recharge time
Considering top speed, agility and sig radius generally aren't as useful for a cap, the different tanking layer to other minmatar caps, and the RR amount bonus that combines with lowest ehp to ensure they make tempting primaries, the nidhoggur seems to fall short comapared to the thanatos overall. As CCP is already looking at capitals, this seems as good a time as any for them to take a look at the nidhogger.
agility is pretty useful to caps, and I doubt they'll change it again......
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oj oj
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.01.15 04:16:00 -
[851]
Could we get a status update on the thoughts re: Shield vs. Armor Tankers? Status of Slave use on caps? Shield gang bonus penalty?
Running the numbers on the Aeon v Wyvern, ganged up with their respective command ships and titans it's a bonus of almost 20 million EHP just due to the implants.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.15 06:23:00 -
[852]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 15/01/2010 06:25:03 I looked into SiSi and see that info on SC's has finally been changed. But Hel has still it's old bonus - perhaps CCP would like to comment on that (and everything else that's been repeatedly talked about since page 15 when they took off before new year).
So far it seems that the change for Dominion 1.1 is only half way done concerning the SC's and CCP doesn't really care to do the job well but instead just seems to want to get something done so it's over with (otherwise I don't understand their silence since 29/12 in the middle of this thread plus their comment that the changes is "soon" here). I say it's better to do it properly now instead wait X years to do the fixes. To fix 3 out of 4 SC's isn't enough imo. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Jon Brutor
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.15 15:17:00 -
[853]
If the pointless remote rep bonus is going to stay, at least make it better than the carriers.
Also, carriers are used for logistical stuff. No one will use remote reps on a hel unless they like wasting highslots.
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2010.01.15 15:19:00 -
[854]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Deal with the Nag or train another dread.. Imo..
2 things: First not all of players are playing this game for 4-6 years. Longer training quee means something for some people. And mostly: to train another dread thing; That's why i insist on change. Most players that decide to go for dread (i mean the %95 my guesses) will not train for something that takes 40-60 days more training time (without having PERFECT skills, just to fly properly) and ends up worse or same with another one. They will just go for REV, and means less variety on the sky, which is no good at all. (Amarr online lol...)
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.15 15:28:00 -
[855]
Originally by: Jon Brutor Also, carriers are used for logistical stuff. No one will use remote reps on a hel unless they like wasting highslots.
Because certainly you'd never have unjammable supercarriers spider-tanking each other, right?
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.15 16:29:00 -
[856]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: Jon Brutor Also, carriers are used for logistical stuff. No one will use remote reps on a hel unless they like wasting highslots.
Because certainly you'd never have unjammable supercarriers spider-tanking each other, right?
Yes, that's what you wanna do - spend 15-20 billion iskies on a Supercarrier and use it as a logistics that's 1/4 as effective as a triaged carrier that costs 1/20 as much. Do you fly Hel or concider doing it? I guess not.
The large majority that has posted in this threas at least concider the old bonus failed compared to the other SC's, since they will loose their triage and get a new role as heavy tanked capital killers.
There will not be any short of carrier logistics support in the large fleet battles where this will be mostly seen. A couple of Hel's extra repping will not change this much.
Amarr and Caldari has their extra tank, which protect their investment and make their 15-20 billion survive more.
Nyx got it's extra DPS which make it more fierce in the battlefield, and higher stats in the killboards. Hel should be the second SC with a damage bonus imo so we have two of each kinda damage. Or else give it half a damage and half a resist bonus so it at least get something useful. _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.15 18:47:00 -
[857]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 15/01/2010 18:54:30 You DO realise I was poking at the "remote reps waste highslots" instead of the "Hel needs a real bonus", right? I too agree that the Hel needs a real bonus, and I pretty much echoed everything in your wall of text in my own two or three pages ago - can't remember if it was before or after my math fail, but I do distinctly remember shooting down the WE FORM VOLTRON guy and suggesting making the Hel the shield-tanked gank-SC. However, there's always utility in unjammable support of your fellow SCs, and that applies to ALL of them.
Specifically, he wanted to give the Hel the Nyx's damage bonus and give the Nyx a fighter only bonus, which would make the Nyx as undesirable as the Hel is now as the bonus would be unrelated to the task of killing capitals. Seeing that CCP fixed the signature radius et al of capitals such that target painters wouldn't be required, I suggested the Hel get some sort of bonus equivalent to the Nyx bonus as a simple option to CCP ...
{EDIT - found it: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1236843&page=21#629 so maybe it's a few more pages >.> ...}
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:39:00 -
[858]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 15/01/2010 18:54:30 You DO realise I was poking at the "remote reps waste highslots" instead of the "Hel needs a real bonus", right? I too agree that the Hel needs a real bonus, and I pretty much echoed everything in your wall of text in my own two or three pages ago - can't remember if it was before or after my math fail, but I do distinctly remember shooting down the WE FORM VOLTRON guy and suggesting making the Hel the shield-tanked gank-SC. However, there's always utility in unjammable support of your fellow SCs, and that applies to ALL of them.
Specifically, he wanted to give the Hel the Nyx's damage bonus and give the Nyx a fighter only bonus, which would make the Nyx as undesirable as the Hel is now as the bonus would be unrelated to the task of killing capitals. Seeing that CCP fixed the signature radius et al of capitals such that target painters wouldn't be required, I suggested the Hel get some sort of bonus equivalent to the Nyx bonus as a simple option to CCP ...
{EDIT - found it: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1236843&page=21#629 so maybe it's a few more pages >.> ...}
Nah - I didn't get that. I thought you meant since you objected to it being a waste and also argued with the extra strength from EW-immunity that you accually also thought it was a good bonus. I have not very much in memory who said what in former pages, but when you say that I recall what you mean.
No matter what you meant just now it needed to be said again - at least if CCP still at all intend to lend their ears to our thoughts any more. Which it to me sadly doesn't seems as. Sad panda :'( _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:49:00 -
[859]
Originally by: Dursun Idris Edited by: Dursun Idris on 15/01/2010 15:27:34
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Deal with the Nag or train another dread.. Imo..
2 things: First not all of players are playing this game for 4-6 years. Longer training quee means something for some people. And mostly: to train another dread thing; That's why i insist on change. Most players that decide to go for dread (i mean the %95 my guesses) will not train for something that takes 40-60 days more training time (without having PERFECT skills, just to fly properly) and ends up worse or same with another one. They will just go for REV, and means less variety on the sky, which is no good at all. (Amarr online lol...)
List of matar missile ships: Huginn: It's another mixed ship. Hound: Sb's mostly (and only) used for their bombs atm... Typhoon: Another mixed ship that is viable for using missiles. And they work best with torpedoes, not cruise.
There is not much point to focus on missiles for a matar player, none other than naglfar...
The hound obviously needs to stay with missiles and the phoon oddly enough works quite well with them, though I agree the huginn needs a change.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.15 21:24:00 -
[860]
See i dont see the minmattar Argument here Cause Its a lil Bit Longer of a train sure but people will still want to do it. 1400's Plus torps on a phoon sure hurt like hell, or 800 repeaters.
Capital Size Missles hit for large numbers but its delayed damage, i for one was against the gun only Naglfar. I chose Minmattar Cause it was a little longer of a train, and back they they were p.awesome speed demons.
The Niddy Is AMAZING for Triage, and for supporting BS fleets as it can rep better for shields and armor, than a thanny. They Hel Absolutely needs a new bonus i agree, these are Front like assault caps not logistics ships. Will High slot reps be used on SC, ofcourse they will if they pilots are smart. Spider tank is better than No spider tank. Naglfar Its Vertical and by far the coolest model for dreads, split weapons sucks a lil but it gives you the ability to choose damage types for both guns and missles.
I dont know about most minmattar pilots but i fit my short range Tempest with AC and torps.... As well as my Phoon, muninn split weapons, huginn split, loki can have split weapons.
I always liked the idea of giving the hel a Drone ROF bonus that equal'd the nyx damage bonus.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.15 21:46:00 -
[861]
Protip: even carriers were repping each other before triage came out, it doesn't need to be locked in place in triage for it to be a logistics ship....
The Light in the Darkness
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2010.01.16 00:59:00 -
[862]
Originally by: Bobbeh See i dont see the minmattar Argument here Cause Its a lil Bit Longer of a train sure but people will still want to do it. 1400's Plus torps on a phoon sure hurt like hell, or 800 repeaters.
Capital Size Missles hit for large numbers but its delayed damage, i for one was against the gun only Naglfar. I chose Minmattar Cause it was a little longer of a train, and back they they were p.awesome speed demons.
The Niddy Is AMAZING for Triage, and for supporting BS fleets as it can rep better for shields and armor, than a thanny. They Hel Absolutely needs a new bonus i agree, these are Front like assault caps not logistics ships. Will High slot reps be used on SC, ofcourse they will if they pilots are smart. Spider tank is better than No spider tank. Naglfar Its Vertical and by far the coolest model for dreads, split weapons sucks a lil but it gives you the ability to choose damage types for both guns and missles.
I dont know about most minmattar pilots but i fit my short range Tempest with AC and torps.... As well as my Phoon, muninn split weapons, huginn split, loki can have split weapons.
I always liked the idea of giving the hel a Drone ROF bonus that equal'd the nyx damage bonus.
GJ fitting missiles to muninn after 720 ii's. You will get better results with pest if you use your high's for utility. Missiles do not have much to add most of matar ships with missile slots other than listed.
About SC remote reps/shield/energy transfers, they don't have range bonus right?
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.16 05:21:00 -
[863]
Edited by: Bobbeh on 16/01/2010 05:24:35
Originally by: Dursun Idris
GJ fitting missiles to muninn after 720 ii's. You will get better results with pest if you use your high's for utility. Missiles do not have much to add most of matar ships with missile slots other than listed.
About SC remote reps/shield/energy transfers, they don't have range bonus right?
We'll i find 2 AS launchers adds nicely to kill fast tackle with drones... AFAIK the Range bonus is still planned to be there, I dont think they plan on removing it cause it would make even after combat repping very hard. The Loss if i am correct is just the ability to triage and to clone vat. And yea I have one Pest with utility Highs and One with Missle highs, the RR is nice when you need it, but the 2 Torp launchers with t2 torps adds nice dps aswell, Also find neuts are nice sometimes.
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Yuki Michi
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.01.16 13:48:00 -
[864]
Why so going off topic? We talk about the super carier here. With new skill req.
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Harrana Teo
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Posted - 2010.01.16 19:29:00 -
[865]
So if we are looking at changes to the mothership including the ability to move with the rest of a capital fleet one of the things I would like to point out in regards to changes is the need for dreads to be able to change out guns while in a combat system. At the moment the only ships that are capable of having the space to move these large turrets are Jump Freighters (not good to bring into a combat system) and Rorq's (Same) Why don't we look at increasing the corporate hanger on the 'super carrier' to 100,000 m3 to allow for the needed space to carry these turrets for the dreads thus allowing for capital fleets to have a more dynamic usage. Being able to fit from POS attack to Dread vs Dread combat just by approaching the super carrier and pulling the guns from the hanger.
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sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.16 20:43:00 -
[866]
Originally by: Bobbeh See i dont see the minmattar Argument here Cause Its a lil Bit Longer of a train sure but people will still want to do it. 1400's Plus torps on a phoon sure hurt like hell, or 800 repeaters.
Capital Size Missles hit for large numbers but its delayed damage, i for one was against the gun only Naglfar. I chose Minmattar Cause it was a little longer of a train, and back they they were p.awesome speed demons.
The Niddy Is AMAZING for Triage, and for supporting BS fleets as it can rep better for shields and armor, than a thanny. They Hel Absolutely needs a new bonus i agree, these are Front like assault caps not logistics ships. Will High slot reps be used on SC, ofcourse they will if they pilots are smart. Spider tank is better than No spider tank. Naglfar Its Vertical and by far the coolest model for dreads, split weapons sucks a lil but it gives you the ability to choose damage types for both guns and missles.
I dont know about most minmattar pilots but i fit my short range Tempest with AC and torps.... As well as my Phoon, muninn split weapons, huginn split, loki can have split weapons.
I always liked the idea of giving the hel a Drone ROF bonus that equal'd the nyx damage bonus.
1400s + Torps?
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.16 21:20:00 -
[867]
Originally by: Harrana Teo So if we are looking at changes to the mothership including the ability to move with the rest of a capital fleet one of the things I would like to point out in regards to changes is the need for dreads to be able to change out guns while in a combat system. At the moment the only ships that are capable of having the space to move these large turrets are Jump Freighters (not good to bring into a combat system) and Rorq's (Same) Why don't we look at increasing the corporate hanger on the 'super carrier' to 100,000 m3 to allow for the needed space to carry these turrets for the dreads thus allowing for capital fleets to have a more dynamic usage. Being able to fit from POS attack to Dread vs Dread combat just by approaching the super carrier and pulling the guns from the hanger.
although I'd love to see a boost to the corp hangar, I have a feeling CCP will shoot this down as another way to move cargo to/from 0.0 even though the Jump Freighter would still be more ideal for jumping since it can jump from high sec and dock.
-- my sig got nerfed again, csm thread to get forum sig limitations lifted a bit |
Miriallia Clyne
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.17 10:38:00 -
[868]
Originally by: Harrana Teo So if we are looking at changes to the mothership including the ability to move with the rest of a capital fleet one of the things I would like to point out in regards to changes is the need for dreads to be able to change out guns while in a combat system. At the moment the only ships that are capable of having the space to move these large turrets are Jump Freighters (not good to bring into a combat system) and Rorq's (Same) Why don't we look at increasing the corporate hanger on the 'super carrier' to 100,000 m3 to allow for the needed space to carry these turrets for the dreads thus allowing for capital fleets to have a more dynamic usage. Being able to fit from POS attack to Dread vs Dread combat just by approaching the super carrier and pulling the guns from the hanger.
Actually that's a win idea. Before hand it wouldn't have made it as there were no jump freighters but today increasing the SC Corp Hangar to like 50K-100K makes sense, you won't use an SC to move stuffs around as a jump freighter alternative!
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Pedron Niaal
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.17 12:29:00 -
[869]
I fly a Hel and i think a combo of motherships with fighter bombers (who are not easily smartbombed i you can get that fixed) will rock.
The bonus is quite nice if you consider the new way of supercaps.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.17 22:20:00 -
[870]
While we're here, and on a semi-related note, any news on fixing capital ship scaling? The Supercarriers should at least be bigger than dreadnoughts - after all, the effectiveness of the ship and the size of one's epeen is directly related to the size of the model ;)
(And on a serious note, any news concerning even a thought process for the Hel?)
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.01.17 23:42:00 -
[871]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin While we're here, and on a semi-related note, any news on fixing capital ship scaling? The Supercarriers should at least be bigger than dreadnoughts - after all, the effectiveness of the ship and the size of one's epeen is directly related to the size of the model ;)
Originally by: CCP Abathur Size of Supercarriers - Not changing for 1.1 but I'm going to talk some more about this to Art because e-peens should look like e-peens.
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.17 23:44:00 -
[872]
i wonder if ill finish carrier 5 on my main by the time ccp get this patch on tq ... note that i havent even started training it yet :>
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Jon Brutor
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.18 04:44:00 -
[873]
Originally by: LoveKebab i wonder if ill finish carrier 5 on my main by the time ccp get this patch on tq ... note that i havent even started training it yet :>
Whats the rush, it's fun knowing that 20bill can be insta popped by 2 titans.
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.18 05:04:00 -
[874]
Originally by: Jon Brutor
Originally by: LoveKebab i wonder if ill finish carrier 5 on my main by the time ccp get this patch on tq ... note that i havent even started training it yet :>
Whats the rush, it's fun knowing that 20bill can be insta popped by 2 titans.
it's not that the skill gonna give me some additional ehp on my Hel :> xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Mirauder
R E D E M P T I O N Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.18 12:39:00 -
[875]
Not sure if it's been pointed out yet (cba to re-read the thread), but atm the Nyx has 250k m3 drone bay, but a set of 20 fighters and 20 fighter bombers will total 250k m3 which leaves no space for other drones or spares. I imagine the other MS have smaller drone bays, so they won't even be able to have 1 of each set. Will this be changed or is it intentional to make you only pack 1 type of fighter (conventional or fighter bomber)?
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Mirauder
R E D E M P T I O N Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.18 12:46:00 -
[876]
As for a Hel bonus, you could offer 5% bonus to training time of other race carrier skills
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Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.01.18 13:19:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Mirauder As for a Hel bonus, you could offer 5% bonus to training time of other race carrier skills
You sir just won this thread.
+9001
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.18 14:07:00 -
[878]
Originally by: Mirauder As for a Hel bonus, you could offer 5% bonus to training time of other race carrier skills
LOL ... this was funny ... however bitter the suggestion might be to the Hel pilots atm :) _______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
holymoly84
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Posted - 2010.01.19 01:09:00 -
[879]
When is soon? |
Artassaut
Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2010.01.19 03:54:00 -
[880]
Originally by: holymoly84 When is soon?
SoonÖ is after Now¬ and before End of Time«. --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U. |
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.19 13:26:00 -
[881]
So when will be the phoenix boosted? It is the worst dread atm and what I see it will be nerfed even more.
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Ardetia
The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.19 18:09:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Naomi Knight So when will be the phoenix boosted? It is the worst dread atm and what I see it will be nerfed even more.
its actually quite OP, but noone wants shield tanks in cap fight global banlists: rokh raven phoenix ... lets just go with "caldari"
you may see a few scorps with armor tank and full ecm in mid :) gg
The Flying Tigers are recruiting! |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.19 20:54:00 -
[883]
Originally by: Ardetia
Originally by: Naomi Knight So when will be the phoenix boosted? It is the worst dread atm and what I see it will be nerfed even more.
its actually quite OP, but noone wants shield tanks in cap fight global banlists: rokh raven phoenix ... lets just go with "caldari"
you may see a few scorps with armor tank and full ecm in mid :) gg
I would still wait for tranq patch to get the final stats. I guess citadel cruises flight time will be reduced hopefully not. If not phoenix will be good against towers/dreads but very weak against anything else. I have a scorp with armor tank + ecm :) not that is good but only viable caldari ship in rr gangs.
We will see.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2010.01.19 22:45:00 -
[884]
I would think to stay in the minmatar tradition...the Hel should get a bonus to local repair amount instead of remote rep amount. |
sue denim
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Posted - 2010.01.20 01:22:00 -
[885]
Originally by: Battle Tested I would think to stay in the minmatar tradition...the Hel should get a bonus to local repair amount instead of remote rep amount.
wow, i didn't think anyone would come up with a more useless bonus, but no you did it....
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Yaay
UK Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.20 04:57:00 -
[886]
For god sake ccp, can you just admit that they guys *****ing in the titan thread about how exploitable they would be after the patch were right and fix them.
There has been 1 legit titan kill due to stupidity. It's been nearly 2 months and 1 titan kill. Meanwhile, titan numbers continue to escalate.
Remove the direct damage DD and sort the damn ship out or make it sit idle.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2010.01.20 10:48:00 -
[887]
Originally by: sue denim
wow, i didn't think anyone would come up with a more useless bonus, but no you did it....
That's not that hard. Minnie weapons operate in fall off and range bonused ships get bonuses to projectile falloff.
Minnie racial ECM is target painting.
Therefore the most ideal bonus for the Hel is obviously a bonus to TP falloff.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.01.20 10:50:00 -
[888]
I'm sorry I didn't go through all 30 pages, but can someone tell me if the top launcher rof comment was explained?
Originally by: CCP Abathur Citadel Torps / Cruise
WeÆve changed several things here in order to balance these weapons with their turret counterparts and ensure they are doing the damage they are supposed to.
Citadel Torps: Velocity 1750; Explosion Radius 2000; Launcher RoF 34s
Current Cit Torp launcher has a base rof of 26 seconds, and I take it that will be increased to 34s. So is dps being drastically reduced? Or are torps getting bigger dmg / torp?
Or am I missing someting?
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.01.20 13:32:00 -
[889]
Originally by: Qui Shon I'm sorry I didn't go through all 30 pages, but can someone tell me if the top launcher rof comment was explained?
Originally by: CCP Abathur Citadel Torps / Cruise
WeÆve changed several things here in order to balance these weapons with their turret counterparts and ensure they are doing the damage they are supposed to.
Citadel Torps: Velocity 1750; Explosion Radius 2000; Launcher RoF 34s
Current Cit Torp launcher has a base rof of 26 seconds, and I take it that will be increased to 34s. So is dps being drastically reduced? Or are torps getting bigger dmg / torp?
Or am I missing someting?
According to EFT (uhoh), cit torp raw DPS is being decreased by 31%. In exchange, the explosion radius is being decreased from 2250 m to 2000 m, and the sig radii of pos mods, towers and Dreads are being substantially increased. So torps change from being a very high damage weapon that finds it hard to apply that damage, to a lower damage weapon that finds it much easier to apply that damage.
As for numbers, the current triple-BCS skills-at-V Phoenix does 9113 kinetic torp DPS to 37.1 km. The proposed Phoenix will do, ermm.... 6969 kinetic torp DPS to, erm, a slightly longer range. I don't have the capital experience to properly interpret these EFT numbers, so over to someone else.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.01.20 14:23:00 -
[890]
Ahaa. Thank you.
While not being a Phoenix pilot myself, nor actually plugging in the numbers to the missile dmg formula (so the following isn't very well substantiated), it seems to me that Phoenix is losing its main advantage, that of superior dps to large pos's, without gaining enough elsewhere to stand on equal footing with the other dreads vs smaller targets.
So other then POS signature increase, is it really a boost? I'm currently trying to decide between the dreads, and I have to say Phoenix actually became less interesting to me with the proposed changes, as I understand them.
But like I said, I could have it all wrong.
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.20 14:58:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Qui Shon I'm sorry I didn't go through all 30 pages, but can someone tell me if the top launcher rof comment was explained?
Originally by: CCP Abathur Citadel Torps / Cruise
WeÆve changed several things here in order to balance these weapons with their turret counterparts and ensure they are doing the damage they are supposed to.
Citadel Torps: Velocity 1750; Explosion Radius 2000; Launcher RoF 34s
Current Cit Torp launcher has a base rof of 26 seconds, and I take it that will be increased to 34s. So is dps being drastically reduced? Or are torps getting bigger dmg / torp?
Or am I missing someting?
According to EFT (uhoh), cit torp raw DPS is being decreased by 31%. In exchange, the explosion radius is being decreased from 2250 m to 2000 m, and the sig radii of pos mods, towers and Dreads are being substantially increased. So torps change from being a very high damage weapon that finds it hard to apply that damage, to a lower damage weapon that finds it much easier to apply that damage.
As for numbers, the current triple-BCS skills-at-V Phoenix does 9113 kinetic torp DPS to 37.1 km. The proposed Phoenix will do, ermm.... 6969 kinetic torp DPS to, erm, a slightly longer range. I don't have the capital experience to properly interpret these EFT numbers, so over to someone else.
.. it will now do less DPS than a Revelation with Giga Pulse... thus 'balance' is restored yay!! LASERS4TW
pretty big nerf tbh.. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.01.20 15:07:00 -
[892]
Dominion 1.1 Patchnotes
So, uh... no change to the Hel's bonus then?
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.20 18:06:00 -
[893]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 20/01/2010 18:07:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor .. it will now do less DPS than a Revelation with Giga Pulse...
You are correct. The Rev does 11 more DPS.
Max skills (most high damage non-faction ammo) w/ 3x T2 damage mods:
Torp Phoenix - 6335 DPS @ 59km Pulse Rev - 6346 DPS @ 23.4km Blaster Moros - 6546 DPS @ 18.75km AC / Torp Nag - 4792 DPS @ 17km + 1533 DPS @ 59km = 6325 DPS
Also, the burst damage on that Phoenix is about 94.5k per volley, and it does that damage at 2.5 times the range of the Rev.
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.01.20 18:31:00 -
[894]
Edited by: Xtover on 20/01/2010 18:31:58
Originally by: CCP Abathur Torp Phoenix - 6335 DPS @ 59km
59km torps with 3 T2 range rigs
not part of your post, but just wanted to point that out...
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.20 19:17:00 -
[895]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 20/01/2010 19:25:25 Edited by: Jim Raynor on 20/01/2010 19:17:48
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 20/01/2010 18:07:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor .. it will now do less DPS than a Revelation with Giga Pulse...
You are correct. The Rev does 11 more DPS.
Max skills (most high damage non-faction ammo) w/ 3x T2 damage mods:
Torp Phoenix - 6335 DPS @ 59km ??? (is this with rigs or not? i'm getting ~41km with the current numbers on SiSi) Pulse Rev - 6346 DPS @ 23.4km Blaster Moros - 6546 DPS @ 18.75km AC / Torp Nag - 4792 DPS @ 17km + 1533 DPS @ 59km = 6325 DPS
Also, the burst damage on that Phoenix is about 94.5k per volley, and it does that damage at 2.5 times the range of the Rev.
Right but are we talking POS smashing or vs other caps? As long as the Phoenix can stay competitive on both fronts sure but I think the Phoenix is gonna suffer in cap fights from this or will it? I'm thinking that with the issues missiles have at applying their damage these days the Phoenix is not going to look so hot anymore..
Originally by: Xtover Edited by: Xtover on 20/01/2010 18:31:58
Originally by: CCP Abathur Torp Phoenix - 6335 DPS @ 59km
59km torps with 3 T2 range rigs
not part of your post, but just wanted to point that out...
Now wait the numbers are off then? 59km is with rigs? Why are we factoring rigs in this? ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.01.20 19:48:00 -
[896]
Edited by: Xtover on 20/01/2010 19:51:34
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Right but are we talking POS smashing or vs other caps? As long as the Phoenix can stay competitive on both fronts sure but I think the Phoenix is gonna suffer in cap fights from this or will it? I'm thinking that with the issues missiles have at applying their damage these days the Phoenix is not going to look so hot anymore..
no this is still just raw numbers. citadels are getting a damage buff, but RoF and flight will still be slow. He's saying it kinda evens out, but that's not taking into account that half the time the target will be destroyed before our missiles hit? I think?
Now wait the numbers are off then? 59km is with rigs? Why are we factoring rigs in this?
Those were EFT, currently, all lvl V, Torps with Thor and running 3x range rigs.
I was pointing that out because
1) he said with lvl V and with full dmg mods 2) he also didn't take into account nobody will run a rack of only range mods just to hit a large POS
base torp range should have been increased IMO to account for this. It's not like a rev where you can sacrifice some DPS to get some range... you have to fully refit to cruise.
I'm ok with the current buff... just needed a little bit more range to be happy, and allow the delayed damage be the downfall from it being a superwtfpwnship.
base range is still 37.1 with all skills at V.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.20 19:58:00 -
[897]
naglfail is still underpowered.
7.5% per level bonuses please. Torps are just plain impractical for naglfars, the bumping and range factor on capitals means ive not yet been able to hit a single large tower with my torps since the release. |
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.20 20:06:00 -
[898]
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 20/01/2010 20:11:01 Edited by: CCP Abathur on 20/01/2010 20:08:08
Originally by: Jim Raynor Right but are we talking POS smashing or vs other caps? As long as the Phoenix can stay competitive on both fronts sure but I think the Phoenix is gonna suffer in cap fights from this or will it? I'm thinking that with the issues missiles have at applying their damage these days the Phoenix is not going to look so hot anymore..
Of course everything is circumstantial. These numbers are raw damage against non-moving targets. To give a better answer, let's assume you're shooting a Carrier moving at 75 m/sec with the same transversal velocity as well:
While it's true that the Phoenix will only be doing roughly 44% of its peak damage, it still does that damage at all ranges. A pulse-Rev will do 84% of its peak damage around 24k and then starts to drop fast unless you are quick with the crystal changes.
The Phoenix is also still doing about 5k more burst damage per volley so, assuming the guy you are shooting at has 1,000,000 EHP and forgets to turn his repper on, you'll kill him in 32 volleys in the Phoenix up to 59km away versus 39 volleys in the pulse-Rev at a has to stay perfect 24km.
Does this example help?
Originally by: Xtover base range is still 37.1 with all skills at V.
No, in 1.1 max range with max skills for Citadel Torps is 59km.
Base stats in 1.1 for Citadel Torps:
Flight Time - 15 seconds Velocity - 1750 m/sec
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Max Teranous
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.20 20:33:00 -
[899]
Originally by: Xtover Edited by: Xtover on 20/01/2010 19:51:34
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Right but are we talking POS smashing or vs other caps? As long as the Phoenix can stay competitive on both fronts sure but I think the Phoenix is gonna suffer in cap fights from this or will it? I'm thinking that with the issues missiles have at applying their damage these days the Phoenix is not going to look so hot anymore..
no this is still just raw numbers. citadels are getting a damage buff, but RoF and flight will still be slow. He's saying it kinda evens out, but that's not taking into account that half the time the target will be destroyed before our missiles hit? I think?
Now wait the numbers are off then? 59km is with rigs? Why are we factoring rigs in this?
Those were EFT, currently, all lvl V, Torps with Thor and running 3x range rigs.
I was pointing that out because
1) he said with lvl V and with full dmg mods 2) he also didn't take into account nobody will run a rack of only range mods just to hit a large POS
base torp range should have been increased IMO to account for this. It's not like a rev where you can sacrifice some DPS to get some range... you have to fully refit to cruise.
I'm ok with the current buff... just needed a little bit more range to be happy, and allow the delayed damage be the downfall from it being a superwtfpwnship.
base range is still 37.1 with all skills at V.
Base range has been increased, from ~37km on TQ to ~59km on sisi. Without range rigs. What are you *****ing about?
Max
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.20 20:33:00 -
[900]
and ive just got 6days left for cruise missiles 5. what a waste of time that skill was now, with 59k i would happily stick with torps on the nag. sigh :( |
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.01.20 20:38:00 -
[901]
Edited by: Xtover on 20/01/2010 20:38:03
Originally by: CCP Abathur
No, in 1.1 max range with max skills for Citadel Torps is 59km.
Base stats in 1.1 for Citadel Torps:
Flight Time - 15 seconds Velocity - 1750 m/sec
I love you.
Originally by: Max Teranous
Base range has been increased, from ~37km on TQ to ~59km on sisi. Without range rigs. What are you *****ing about?
Max
Well that makes things just peachy, thanks
(I haven't been able to get the test server install working right for a long time)
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Max Teranous
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.20 20:48:00 -
[902]
Originally by: Yaay For god sake ccp, can you just admit that they guys *****ing in the titan thread about how exploitable they would be after the patch were right and fix them.
There has been 1 legit titan kill due to stupidity. It's been nearly 2 months and 1 titan kill. Meanwhile, titan numbers continue to escalate.
Remove the direct damage DD and sort the damn ship out or make it sit idle.
You're flat out wrong. There has been more fleet fights in the past month than the previous 6 months.
Max
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.01.20 23:17:00 -
[903]
So... is hel getting fixed or...?
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Sigras
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Posted - 2010.01.21 02:42:00 -
[904]
it may just be me but I dont see the removal of triage modules from supercarriers?
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Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.21 03:42:00 -
[905]
Originally by: Yaay For god sake ccp, can you just admit that they guys *****ing in the titan thread about how exploitable they would be after the patch were right and fix them.
There has been 1 legit titan kill due to stupidity. It's been nearly 2 months and 1 titan kill. Meanwhile, titan numbers continue to escalate.
Remove the direct damage DD and sort the damn ship out or make it sit idle.
You, as usual, have no idea what you're talking about.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.21 07:32:00 -
[906]
Originally by: holymoly84 When is soon?
Today.
Originally by: Sunset Rogue So... is hel getting fixed or...?
We have held off on changing the current Supercarrier bonuses for now. We would much rather continue to work toward possibly giving them more unique abilities or bonuses.
Originally by: Sigras it may just be me but I dont see the removal of triage modules from supercarriers?
It's you.
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.21 08:53:00 -
[907]
XL turrets have been adjusted slightly to ensure their damage is balanced and to give the short range weapons a bit more range.
2500 AC 20km to 25 km optimal no falloff changes Giga Pulse 32km to 37km optimal no falloff changes
Who can shot from optimal, so who got the best bonus ? Exactly, the amarrs.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2010.01.21 08:57:00 -
[908]
I meant in the patch notes, but Ohhhh . . . I guess it was just wishful thinking. . .
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John Zorg
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.21 08:57:00 -
[909]
Edited by: John Zorg on 21/01/2010 08:58:24 Not sure if this has changed since I was last on the test server. Have the Drone bays had any changes made to their size? Or is the intention to be either Fighters or Fighter Bombers?
Didn't see anything in the patch notes regarding this?
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:18:00 -
[910]
lol no changes made to Hel... AGAIN (exept ofc hp buff), good thinking - now it's the most useless ms when it comes to tank and doesnt do anything special when it comes to dps
good i sold my ship yesterday ;o xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
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Zeus
Amarr Evolution
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Posted - 2010.01.21 16:16:00 -
[911]
Drone bay sizes only allow Fighter Bombers or Fighters on a Aeon.....
7.5k per FB 5k per F
150k for 20 FB.....
Really one or the other with only 6 spares? thats a joke
Nyx's get 250k
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.21 16:38:00 -
[912]
that's pretty fair, u WONT get 20 of each + 4spares AND god knows how many conventional drones in addition, forget it xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Kreonny
Minmatar R.U.S.H Red Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.21 16:44:00 -
[913]
Look, 35 sec ROF 3500mm, - 10% gunnery = 32 sec, -20% rapid firing = 27 sec, -25% new Naglfar's bonus = 20 sec ? right ?
Why does it shoot ones at 30 sec?!?!?!
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.21 18:07:00 -
[914]
So, 1 successfull bomber run by the enemy, and supercarriers are pretty much a sitting duck..
Why can¦t they hold atleast 2 flights of bombers?
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.21 19:17:00 -
[915]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n So, 1 successfull bomber run by the enemy, and supercarriers are pretty much a sitting duck..
Why can¦t they hold atleast 2 flights of bombers?
DONT use a ship/drones that u cant afford to lose ... ms has still ****loads of other drones to defend itself, if u were stupid enough to get ur bombers killed u shouldnt use them xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Kreonny
Minmatar R.U.S.H Red Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.21 19:28:00 -
[916]
New Dread mass in siege - is sucks. Add a agility!!!!
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.21 20:34:00 -
[917]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 20/01/2010 20:11:01
Of course everything is circumstantial. These numbers are raw damage against non-moving targets. To give a better answer, let's assume you're shooting a Carrier moving at 75 m/sec with the same transversal velocity as well:
While it's true that the Phoenix will only be doing roughly 44% of its peak damage, it still does that damage at all ranges. A pulse-Rev will do 84% of its peak damage around 24k and then starts to drop fast unless you are quick with the crystal changes.
The Phoenix is also still doing about 5k more burst damage per volley so, assuming the guy you are shooting at has 1,000,000 EHP and forgets to turn his repper on, you'll kill him in 32 volleys in the Phoenix up to 59km away versus 39 volleys in the pulse-Rev at a has to stay perfect 24km.
Does this example help?
I really think a Phoenix should be hitting a moving carrier for more than 44% of its peak damage considering the rate of fire nerf.. I mean, 44% is pretty damn low compared to the 84% of the Revelation and I still don't see how you are getting 59km on Citadel Torps, unless you are adding 3 missile range rigs, which I don't think makes for a fair comparison to the range of a Phoenix and a Revelation, cause with the current numbers I'm getting about 40km for Citadel Torps with max skills and no rigs and yeah the missiles are still relatively slow and have flight time which right there make missiles not exactly the weapon of choice out there right now as it is..
I can understand nerfing the Phoenix on paper but as far as being able to apply that DPS the Phoenix really comes up short now don't you think? ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Rjuric
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Posted - 2010.01.21 20:51:00 -
[918]
Edited by: Rjuric on 21/01/2010 20:56:36 Awesome artwork in the Blog!
Large Pic! and CCP why do you host the image outside your own forum?
Well, When will we see similar artwork for Amarr, Caldari and Gallente?
// Rjuric.
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CCP Abathur
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.21 21:37:00 -
[919]
Originally by: Jim Raynor I still don't see how you are getting 59km on Citadel Torps, unless you are adding 3 missile range rigs, which I don't think makes for a fair comparison to the range of a Phoenix and a Revelation, cause with the current numbers I'm getting about 40km for Citadel Torps with max skills
Either you do not have max skills on SiSi or you are doing the math wrong somewhere. Perhaps you are calculating the Missile Projection & Missile Bombardment skills @ 5% per level instead of 10%?
Quote: the missiles are still relatively slow and have flight time which right there make missiles not exactly the weapon of choice out there right now as it is..
The base velocities have been bumped for both Citadel Torps and cruise. With max skills they are doing 2625 / 6375 m/sec respectively. Effective range is 59 / 191 km.
Like all missiles, they do not do instant damage to a target, but they still do full damage when they hit and their burst damage is far superior to turrets.
Quote: I can understand nerfing the Phoenix on paper but as far as being able to apply that DPS the Phoenix really comes up short now don't you think?
Of course I'm biased, but when you look at the Phoenix in 1.1 compared to the other dreads, then also consider the signature radius changes on POS structures and other Dreads, the Phoenix is probably in a better place balance-wise than it has been in the past.
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Johndalar
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Posted - 2010.01.21 22:12:00 -
[920]
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 20/01/2010 18:07:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor .. it will now do less DPS than a Revelation with Giga Pulse...
You are correct. The Rev does 11 more DPS.
Max skills (most high damage non-faction ammo) w/ 3x T2 damage mods:
Torp Phoenix - 6335 DPS @ 59km Pulse Rev - 6346 DPS @ 23.4km Blaster Moros - 6546 DPS @ 18.75km AC / Torp Nag - 4792 DPS @ 17km + 1533 DPS @ 59km = 6325 DPS
Also, the burst damage on that Phoenix is about 94.5k per volley, and it does that damage at 2.5 times the range of the Rev.
I don't mean to beat the dead horse anymore than it already has but..... We are back to the nag having the least tank and dps AND range to apply said least damage! And we have to pay more real $$ cause it takes longer to train to fly the least affective dread. Is there any situation that your co-workers at eve can find where you would want a Nag over any other dread in eve today? and don't you dare say alpha; dps over takes alpha in the fifth shot, for a dread that is a disadvantage. Sorry for the same rant everyone has heard over and over.
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Kateryne
Minmatar Nisaba Syndicate New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.22 00:37:00 -
[921]
Originally by: Johndalar
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 20/01/2010 18:07:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor .. it will now do less DPS than a Revelation with Giga Pulse...
You are correct. The Rev does 11 more DPS.
Max skills (most high damage non-faction ammo) w/ 3x T2 damage mods:
Torp Phoenix - 6335 DPS @ 59km Pulse Rev - 6346 DPS @ 23.4km Blaster Moros - 6546 DPS @ 18.75km AC / Torp Nag - 4792 DPS @ 17km + 1533 DPS @ 59km = 6325 DPS
Also, the burst damage on that Phoenix is about 94.5k per volley, and it does that damage at 2.5 times the range of the Rev.
I don't mean to beat the dead horse anymore than it already has but..... We are back to the nag having the least tank and dps AND range to apply said least damage! And we have to pay more real $$ cause it takes longer to train to fly the least affective dread. Is there any situation that your co-workers at eve can find where you would want a Nag over any other dread in eve today? and don't you dare say alpha; dps over takes alpha in the fifth shot, for a dread that is a disadvantage. Sorry for the same rant everyone has heard over and over.
However if you compare long range fits, the results are quite different. Please, go and do so!
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.22 04:07:00 -
[922]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Jim Raynor I still don't see how you are getting 59km on Citadel Torps, unless you are adding 3 missile range rigs, which I don't think makes for a fair comparison to the range of a Phoenix and a Revelation, cause with the current numbers I'm getting about 40km for Citadel Torps with max skills
Either you do not have max skills on SiSi or you are doing the math wrong somewhere. Perhaps you are calculating the Missile Projection & Missile Bombardment skills @ 5% per level instead of 10%?
Quote: the missiles are still relatively slow and have flight time which right there make missiles not exactly the weapon of choice out there right now as it is..
The base velocities have been bumped for both Citadel Torps and cruise. With max skills they are doing 2625 / 6375 m/sec respectively. Effective range is 59 / 191 km.
Like all missiles, they do not do instant damage to a target, but they still do full damage when they hit and their burst damage is far superior to turrets.
Quote: I can understand nerfing the Phoenix on paper but as far as being able to apply that DPS the Phoenix really comes up short now don't you think?
Of course I'm biased, but when you look at the Phoenix in 1.1 compared to the other dreads, then also consider the signature radius changes on POS structures and other Dreads, the Phoenix is probably in a better place balance-wise than it has been in the past.
Yeah I think I did the math with 5% per level instead of 10% I have maxed out missile skills but I haven't gotten on SiSi to test any of this I'm just going on what you posted.
I'm just kind of worried because the Phoenix is not really considered a one of the better dreads.. even when it was doing way more DPS on paper than the other 3 dreads due to how missiles work and now that it's been technically balanced it will in practical purposes just do a lot less DPS and be less desirable.
When you said a Phoenix is only doing 44% of it's potential damage on a moving capital ship that kind of worries me as far as how long it will be before people start saying GTFO if you have a Phoenix.. missile ships are -already- not overly popular for large scale fights. :)
I just know before the changes the general consensus has been "train for a real dread pls" .. (such as the Rev, which is quite popular obviously with it's pew pew lazars) |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
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Posted - 2010.01.22 07:09:00 -
[923]
Originally by: Zeus Drone bay sizes only allow Fighter Bombers or Fighters on a Aeon.....
7.5k per FB 5k per F
150k for 20 FB.....
Really one or the other with only 6 spares? thats a joke
Nyx's get 250k
What's the verdict?
By design, or to be looked at?
I reckon all sc drone bays need enlarging. |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.22 07:11:00 -
[924]
What happened to expanding drone bays on MS so we can carry fighters and bombers :( |
LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.22 07:43:00 -
[925]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 22/01/2010 07:45:42 dont get me wrong but it's beyond funny how ppl are crying for NOT being able to have both fighters and bombers set + conventional drones lol - where did any1 say that SC will be able to have full set of f/fb and still have a room for other drones ?
it's fine as it is now - u have to PICK ur specialization, either go with DPS for cap + some protection from other ships or dps for normal ships and abandon the epic dps to caps
supercarriers already recived a massive boost - HP, jump range, bombers - and yet u want to be boosted even more, stop being as ******ed as leviathan pilots :D |
Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 09:08:00 -
[926]
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 22/01/2010 07:45:42 dont get me wrong but it's beyond funny how ppl are crying for NOT being able to have both fighters and bombers set + conventional drones lol - where did any1 say that SC will be able to have full set of f/fb and still have a room for other drones ?
it's fine as it is now - u have to PICK ur specialization, either go with DPS for cap + some protection from other ships or dps for normal ships and abandon the epic dps to caps
supercarriers already recived a massive boost - HP, jump range, bombers - and yet u want to be boosted even more, stop being as ******ed as leviathan pilots :D
You sir have no clue. It¦s fail that your primary weapon is destroyable really easy, and you have no way of resupplying during a fight. 2 flights of bombers is more than fair, and if people decides to use the extra space for conventional drones, lol feel free to do so..
If it is considered a problem, then make seperate drone bays for fighters/bombers and conventional drones.. |
Jane Hush
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Posted - 2010.01.22 10:48:00 -
[927]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
A special comment on the Hel û we realize that among these ships, the HelÆs bonus to repair might be seen as a bit æmehÆ. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the HelÆs bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
Make it the only one that can do triage. Would make it a pretty damn awesome for smaller groups that wanna just support BS. |
LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.22 11:07:00 -
[928]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
You sir have no clue. It¦s fail that your primary weapon is destroyable really easy, and you have no way of resupplying during a fight. 2 flights of bombers is more than fair, and if people decides to use the extra space for conventional drones, lol feel free to do so..
If it is considered a problem, then make seperate drone bays for fighters/bombers and conventional drones..
i lol'd, did u actually use a MS in combat for once ? so basicly u r saying that cuz MS with 3250 dps was able to fit 2 sets of fighters the very same MS with 10000 dps has to be able to fit 2 sets of bombers which are made to take more space than a regular fighter ?
it's a primary weapon that deal by far the most dmg in this game (exept DD) so what were u expecting ? that u will be able to use it without any risk? snap out dude...
current ms is designed so u can fit 20 bombers + couple spare instead of fighters AND a conventional drones to defend itself as i said before if ur stupid enough to get ur fighters/bombers down u shouldnt use them, not to mention using a ms and if ppl actually target ur bombers instead of ur ship ur screwed but hey, that's the risk u taking when u field a drone ship - there is always a chance that enemy will have at least half of his brain and do the right thing ESPECIALLY with motherships reciving HP buff where its way easier to deal with it by killing bombers and forcing it to use lower dps so u can stay relativly safe than shooting ms itself which probably would take just 50% of what it takes to kill new titan and that's pretty long tbfh
oh and yea, i happend to use 2 ms quite often, killing ur corpmates etc but like u said, i probably have no clue - prove me wrong then? but not with **** like "i cant have 2 sets of fighters/bombers so it has to be fixed" |
amcor2
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Posted - 2010.01.22 11:09:00 -
[929]
Hel is still the poor cousin to any of the other SC.
Really needs some bonus to make its tank better , would prefer a resistance bonus per level.
Armor stil is >>>>>>> shield and something really needs to be done to equalise that equation or when I bring this thing out its pretty much gonna be primary every time. |
Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.22 11:24:00 -
[930]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
You sir have no clue. It¦s fail that your primary weapon is destroyable really easy, and you have no way of resupplying during a fight. 2 flights of bombers is more than fair, and if people decides to use the extra space for conventional drones, lol feel free to do so..
If it is considered a problem, then make seperate drone bays for fighters/bombers and conventional drones..
i lol'd, did u actually use a MS in combat for once ? so basicly u r saying that cuz MS with 3250 dps was able to fit 2 sets of fighters the very same MS with 10000 dps has to be able to fit 2 sets of bombers which are made to take more space than a regular fighter ?
it's a primary weapon that deal by far the most dmg in this game (exept DD) so what were u expecting ? that u will be able to use it without any risk? snap out dude...
current ms is designed so u can fit 20 bombers + couple spare instead of fighters AND a conventional drones to defend itself as i said before if ur stupid enough to get ur fighters/bombers down u shouldnt use them, not to mention using a ms and if ppl actually target ur bombers instead of ur ship ur screwed but hey, that's the risk u taking when u field a drone ship - there is always a chance that enemy will have at least half of his brain and do the right thing ESPECIALLY with motherships reciving HP buff where its way easier to deal with it by killing bombers and forcing it to use lower dps so u can stay relativly safe than shooting ms itself which probably would take just 50% of what it takes to kill new titan and that's pretty long tbfh
oh and yea, i happend to use 2 ms quite often, killing ur corpmates etc but like u said, i probably have no clue - prove me wrong then? but not with **** like "i cant have 2 sets of fighters/bombers so it has to be fixed"
I don¦t even know why i bother to argue with you, cause as i said, you have no clue.. |
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.22 13:37:00 -
[931]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
i lol'd, did u actually use a MS in combat for once ? so basicly u r saying that cuz MS with 3250 dps was able to fit 2 sets of fighters the very same MS with 10000 dps has to be able to fit 2 sets of bombers which are made to take more space than a regular fighter ?
it's a primary weapon that deal by far the most dmg in this game (exept DD) so what were u expecting ? that u will be able to use it without any risk? snap out dude...
current ms is designed so u can fit 20 bombers + couple spare instead of fighters AND a conventional drones to defend itself as i said before if ur stupid enough to get ur fighters/bombers down u shouldnt use them, not to mention using a ms and if ppl actually target ur bombers instead of ur ship ur screwed but hey, that's the risk u taking when u field a drone ship - there is always a chance that enemy will have at least half of his brain and do the right thing ESPECIALLY with motherships reciving HP buff where its way easier to deal with it by killing bombers and forcing it to use lower dps so u can stay relativly safe than shooting ms itself which probably would take just 50% of what it takes to kill new titan and that's pretty long tbfh
oh and yea, i happend to use 2 ms quite often, killing ur corpmates etc but like u said, i probably have no clue - prove me wrong then? but not with **** like "i cant have 2 sets of fighters/bombers so it has to be fixed"
I don¦t even know why i bother to argue with you, cause as i said, you have no clue..
quality post...
basicly what u ment was "i cant make a decent point so... u have no clue" - maybe try to come up with anything to support ur point ? |
casai
Caldari North Eastern Swat
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 14:34:00 -
[932]
ok abathur here is a question what is beeing done for the shield tanking ships im seeing pictures with aeons haveing 6 million armor HP giveing an over all 68 mill ehp wyvern can do what 22 mill ehp
btw ****ing awesome they let you out of your cage
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.22 15:07:00 -
[933]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
i lol'd, did u actually use a MS in combat for once ? so basicly u r saying that cuz MS with 3250 dps was able to fit 2 sets of fighters the very same MS with 10000 dps has to be able to fit 2 sets of bombers which are made to take more space than a regular fighter ?
it's a primary weapon that deal by far the most dmg in this game (exept DD) so what were u expecting ? that u will be able to use it without any risk? snap out dude...
current ms is designed so u can fit 20 bombers + couple spare instead of fighters AND a conventional drones to defend itself as i said before if ur stupid enough to get ur fighters/bombers down u shouldnt use them, not to mention using a ms and if ppl actually target ur bombers instead of ur ship ur screwed but hey, that's the risk u taking when u field a drone ship - there is always a chance that enemy will have at least half of his brain and do the right thing ESPECIALLY with motherships reciving HP buff where its way easier to deal with it by killing bombers and forcing it to use lower dps so u can stay relativly safe than shooting ms itself which probably would take just 50% of what it takes to kill new titan and that's pretty long tbfh
oh and yea, i happend to use 2 ms quite often, killing ur corpmates etc but like u said, i probably have no clue - prove me wrong then? but not with **** like "i cant have 2 sets of fighters/bombers so it has to be fixed"
I don¦t even know why i bother to argue with you, cause as i said, you have no clue..
quality post...
basicly what u ment was "i cant make a decent point so... u have no clue" - maybe try to come up with anything to support ur point ?
More quality than your semi-decent CAOD replies in this thread tbh..
But, how about this: SC¦s are drone boats, mkay? Every drone boat in EVE can hold more than 1 flight of its primary drones, so why shouldn¦t SC¦s be able to?
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.22 15:11:00 -
[934]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 22/01/2010 15:13:13 and so it does, primary drone types r fighters (NOT FIGHTER BOMBERS! since they are clearly made for killing CAPS, not everything) and u can hold 2 sets of them + conventional drones with no problem (on a nyx at least)
what did u want ? 500k m3 dronebay? r u insane ? xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Natty Dreadlocks
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Posted - 2010.01.22 16:40:00 -
[935]
How far to Compact torps fly? Can you hit pos towers? Or just mods?
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.22 16:57:00 -
[936]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 22/01/2010 16:59:33 25sec * 2.750m/s so it should be around 60ish BUT fighters are orbiting under 15km so it's unlikely u would be able to give a decent dps to the pos unless u like to recall and send fighters to attack each time they shoot a torpedo :) xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.22 17:05:00 -
[937]
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 22/01/2010 17:07:31
Originally by: LoveKebab
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
i lol'd, did u actually use a MS in combat for once ? so basicly u r saying that cuz MS with 3250 dps was able to fit 2 sets of fighters the very same MS with 10000 dps has to be able to fit 2 sets of bombers which are made to take more space than a regular fighter ?
it's a primary weapon that deal by far the most dmg in this game (exept DD) so what were u expecting ? that u will be able to use it without any risk? snap out dude...
current ms is designed so u can fit 20 bombers + couple spare instead of fighters AND a conventional drones to defend itself as i said before if ur stupid enough to get ur fighters/bombers down u shouldnt use them, not to mention using a ms and if ppl actually target ur bombers instead of ur ship ur screwed but hey, that's the risk u taking when u field a drone ship - there is always a chance that enemy will have at least half of his brain and do the right thing ESPECIALLY with motherships reciving HP buff where its way easier to deal with it by killing bombers and forcing it to use lower dps so u can stay relativly safe than shooting ms itself which probably would take just 50% of what it takes to kill new titan and that's pretty long tbfh
oh and yea, i happend to use 2 ms quite often, killing ur corpmates etc but like u said, i probably have no clue - prove me wrong then? but not with **** like "i cant have 2 sets of fighters/bombers so it has to be fixed"
I don¦t even know why i bother to argue with you, cause as i said, you have no clue..
quality post...
basicly what u ment was "i cant make a decent point so... u have no clue" - maybe try to come up with anything to support ur point ?
Right here http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1236843&page=5#127
And they can't hit pos you get an error when you try even though they dont wait to be in orbit to fire their weapons. Every other structure seems to die just fine though.
Missile range is 68km, they will try to fire even outside that range though.
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Over There
Shinra
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Posted - 2010.01.22 17:10:00 -
[938]
Originally by: LoveKebab
what did u want ? 500k m3 dronebay? r u insane ?
nah 300k would be enough
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.22 17:30:00 -
[939]
it was never said it WILL happen tho :] xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Sertan Deras
Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.22 18:49:00 -
[940]
The new bumping mechanic is terrible, fyi. Now instead of getting bumped and eventually stopped, we just get bumped and drift forever. If you're going to raise the mass of the ship to such a huge amount to stop the ships from being bumped, you need to also raise the agility by an equal (or greater) ratio so that the ship will actually stop when it's mass is that high.
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SATAN
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2010.01.23 03:48:00 -
[941]
Originally by: casai ok abathur here is a question what is beeing done for the shield tanking ships im seeing pictures with aeons haveing 6 million armor HP giveing an over all 68 mill ehp wyvern can do what 22 mill ehp
btw ****ing awesome they let you out of your cage
Your fit would be very poor if your Wyvern is only getting 22mil hp. Im betting you can get 3x that without trying very hard.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 09:02:00 -
[942]
New Hel bonus is sweet. Good thing we were able to come up with 20+ ideas that were better than that remote repair bonus. I was worried the Hel would be overlooked for Dominion 1.1 patch.
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.23 11:44:00 -
[943]
Originally by: SATAN
Originally by: casai ok abathur here is a question what is beeing done for the shield tanking ships im seeing pictures with aeons haveing 6 million armor HP giveing an over all 68 mill ehp wyvern can do what 22 mill ehp
btw ****ing awesome they let you out of your cage
Your fit would be very poor if your Wyvern is only getting 22mil hp. Im betting you can get 3x that without trying very hard.
:D well maybe not 3x but surely close to 35m :) xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.23 16:18:00 -
[944]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 23/01/2010 16:23:35 Hey Arent fighter bombers a little bit unbalanced? The only thing they are varied is their speed making matar FB the best , Also explo dmg type is the best + best speed waaaay unbalanced...
Is there any reason to use the other FBs than getting different dmg type?
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.23 16:40:00 -
[945]
not rly m8, the initial shot comes from beyond bombers orbit range and most of the time when u will be using bombers u might aswell start from 30km to tackle ur target (just in case) so they all start shooting at the same moment :> xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:00:00 -
[946]
Originally by: LoveKebab not rly m8, the initial shot comes from beyond bombers orbit range and most of the time when u will be using bombers u might aswell start from 30km to tackle ur target (just in case) so they all start shooting at the same moment :>
Then there is no reason why not change all FBs' speet to matar lvl?
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.23 21:15:00 -
[947]
other bombers have more shield/armor. thats why. |
LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.23 23:37:00 -
[948]
yup, i would prefer either caldari + minmatar or amarr + gallente FB combo since it's easy to repair them as they r both primary shield/armor tanked (depends of the variation) ;] other than that there isnt much to chose from exept the dmg type and if u r doing 2 diferent types of dmg u r pretty much set (no ship in game has t2 resists for either explo/thermial or em/kinetic from what i can tell ^^) xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.24 01:40:00 -
[949]
Originally by: Kraken Kill other bombers have more shield/armor. thats why.
this isnt true again... matar FB has 12k shield+armor amarr FB has 12k caldari FB 11.5k gallente FB 11k
also the matar locks the fastes--->clearly unbalanced
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.24 03:23:00 -
[950]
We have big issues with the Nags inverted lolpenalty bonus. Sieging is broken with epic bumpage even more epic.
In my little Hel today, I was in gang with a Leviathon, found myself missing 1million shields. every time i change session when im a squad commander im missing 400k+ shields.
please fix the missing shields with bonuses for capitals. |
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.01.25 14:05:00 -
[951]
Originally by: Sertan Deras The new bumping mechanic is terrible, fyi. Now instead of getting bumped and eventually stopped, we just get bumped and drift forever. If you're going to raise the mass of the ship to such a huge amount to stop the ships from being bumped, you need to also raise the agility by an equal (or greater) ratio so that the ship will actually stop when it's mass is that high.
well.. I warned that this would happen way at first time the changes were announced..... huge mass means huge bolling ball.
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:07:00 -
[952]
Originally by: Johndalar
Originally by: CCP Abathur Edited by: CCP Abathur on 20/01/2010 18:07:24
Originally by: Jim Raynor .. it will now do less DPS than a Revelation with Giga Pulse...
I don't mean to beat the dead horse anymore than it already has but..... We are back to the nag having the least tank and dps AND range to apply said least damage! And we have to pay more real $$ cause it takes longer to train to fly the least affective dread. Is there any situation that your co-workers at eve can find where you would want a Nag over any other dread in eve today? and don't you dare say alpha; dps over takes alpha in the fifth shot, for a dread that is a disadvantage. Sorry for the same rant everyone has heard over and over.
I said new changes won't going to fix it. Over... over... and over again...
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wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2010.01.28 01:26:00 -
[953]
Am I the only one who thinks Supercarriers don't have enough DPS?
I like the changes to them overall, but as I understood it the 10k DPS figure cited was for a Nyx with 5 DCUs. Nobody fits DCUs, and not everyone flies a Nyx. Without the DCUs the Nyx would have 8k DPS while the other Supercarriers get 6.4k DPS.
6.4k DPS is Dread level DPS. I mean, come on?
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.28 08:28:00 -
[954]
Originally by: wallenbergaren Am I the only one who thinks Supercarriers don't have enough DPS?
I like the changes to them overall, but as I understood it the 10k DPS figure cited was for a Nyx with 5 DCUs. Nobody fits DCUs, and not everyone flies a Nyx. Without the DCUs the Nyx would have 8k DPS while the other Supercarriers get 6.4k DPS.
6.4k DPS is Dread level DPS. I mean, come on?
Wait, the damage figures was with 5 DCU¦s?
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wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2010.01.28 11:24:00 -
[955]
No, I was wrong it was apparently with just 20 FBs
Still doesn't make much sense that the Nyx does 25% more than the others though. It's fine for Carriers since they're not DPS ships but Supercarriers are
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.01.28 12:08:00 -
[956]
than stop using bombers with lvl1 skill ? i somehow knew ppl gonna whine about to small dps in a ships that have 2nd best dps in game
it was counted with 20 bombers and skills @ lvl5 which means ... come back in 60 days xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Rose Nuke
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.28 12:37:00 -
[957]
they need to sort out the mass with triage and siege because you end just drifting forever, was on station in triage got bumped just drifting off at 30m/s for the rest of the cycle and can imagine same problems with dreads when jumping in with large numbers.
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Zeus
Amarr Evolution
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Posted - 2010.01.28 18:17:00 -
[958]
They reduced the size of FB's to 5k like fighters, but 20 FB and 20 Fighters is still 200k which is max drone bay for Aeon and Wyvern. No room for spares or drones. Not good enough .... better but not good enough , need atleast another 75k Imo. Otherwise Nyx are still overpowered and alot more versatile than all the rest. Better Damage, room for spares and drones.. why fly anything else? :(
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.28 18:22:00 -
[959]
Originally by: LoveKebab than stop using bombers with lvl1 skill ? i somehow knew ppl gonna whine about to small dps in a ships that have 2nd best dps in game
it was counted with 20 bombers and skills @ lvl5 which means ... come back in 60 days
Noone said anything bout lvl 1 skills..
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Over There
Shinra
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Posted - 2010.01.29 06:13:00 -
[960]
Originally by: Zeus They reduced the size of FB's to 5k like fighters, but 20 FB and 20 Fighters is still 200k which is max drone bay for Aeon and Wyvern. No room for spares or drones. Not good enough .... better but not good enough , need atleast another 75k Imo. Otherwise Nyx are still overpowered and alot more versatile than all the rest. Better Damage, room for spares and drones.. why fly anything else? :(
Yep.
WTT amarr carrier 5 for gallente carrier 5
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.29 09:41:00 -
[961]
Originally by: Zeus They reduced the size of FB's to 5k like fighters, but 20 FB and 20 Fighters is still 200k which is max drone bay for Aeon and Wyvern. No room for spares or drones. Not good enough .... better but not good enough , need atleast another 75k Imo. Otherwise Nyx are still overpowered and alot more versatile than all the rest. Better Damage, room for spares and drones.. why fly anything else? :(
Yeah , also why matar bomber is the best , why use any other type?
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 11:01:00 -
[962]
Originally by: wallenbergaren Still doesn't make much sense that the Nyx does 25% more than the others though. It's fine for Carriers since they're not DPS ships but Supercarriers are
Maybe because Gallente are the drone race pretty much..
Originally by: Zeus They reduced the size of FB's to 5k like fighters, but 20 FB and 20 Fighters is still 200k which is max drone bay for Aeon and Wyvern. No room for spares or drones. Not good enough .... better but not good enough , need atleast another 75k Imo. Otherwise Nyx are still overpowered and alot more versatile than all the rest. Better Damage, room for spares and drones.. why fly anything else? :(
Yes please, lets make them all the same! This is starting to sound more and more like that ultra tear thread below about the Legion.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 16:35:00 -
[963]
Why would you even wan¦t to carry normal fighters? Im certainly not planning to.
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.31 06:36:00 -
[964]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 31/01/2010 06:38:33
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: wallenbergaren Still doesn't make much sense that the Nyx does 25% more than the others though. It's fine for Carriers since they're not DPS ships but Supercarriers are
Maybe because Gallente are the drone race pretty much..
Technically speaking Carriers/Super Carriers use fighters and they are NOT drones, so really why the Thanatos/Nys gets a damage bonus is kind of weird, in my opinion each race should get a bonus to it's own races fighters.. if you want to get technical, Caldari are actually the race that made the most use out of fighters (granted.. historically speaking the Condor was considered a fighter).
Now that being said.. let's go back in time to when bombers used cruise missile launchers, the Manticore had 1 extra launcher over it's other stealth bomber counterparts, the argument there was that Caldari were the missile race thus it's bomber packed more firepower.. people cried and *****ed up a storm about it and after stealth bombers were redesigned they all have the same launcher hard points.. so obviously being the missile race did not produce a superior stealth bomber for the Caldari in the end and the Manticore holds no real advantage over the other 3 bombers now does it? Now honestly I think it's better now than it was.
So bottom line.. all carriers should get a damage bonus to their races fighters, it would make more sense and add some racial flavor to the ships in my opinion, that or no damage bonus what so ever. :)
Originally by: Zeus They reduced the size of FB's to 5k like fighters, but 20 FB and 20 Fighters is still 200k which is max drone bay for Aeon and Wyvern. No room for spares or drones. Not good enough .... better but not good enough , need atleast another 75k Imo. Otherwise Nyx are still overpowered and alot more versatile than all the rest. Better Damage, room for spares and drones.. why fly anything else? :(
Yes please, lets make them all the same! This is starting to sound more and more like that ultra tear thread below about the Legion.
Well dude, in all honesty the capital ships should have pretty similar performance with each other, they are a massive investment in skill points and isk... so really having 1 races capitals be completely dominant is pretty stupid, coming from a guy who has a lot of SP invested in Caldari dread/carrier, har har.. :\ ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.31 09:18:00 -
[965]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 31/01/2010 09:18:00
Originally by: Jim Raynor Edited by: Jim Raynor on 31/01/2010 06:38:33
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: wallenbergaren Still doesn't make much sense that the Nyx does 25% more than the others though. It's fine for Carriers since they're not DPS ships but Supercarriers are
Maybe because Gallente are the drone race pretty much..
Technically speaking Carriers/Super Carriers use fighters and they are NOT drones...
Go to the market and tell me which folder they are listed under then if not the DRONES folder.
Originally by: Jim RaynorWell dude, in all honesty the capital ships should have pretty similar performance with each other..
So a Megathron should get the same alpha with its rails as a Tempest does with its artillery? This has to be a troll right?
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.31 09:33:00 -
[966]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 31/01/2010 09:18:00
Originally by: Jim Raynor Edited by: Jim Raynor on 31/01/2010 06:38:33
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: wallenbergaren Still doesn't make much sense that the Nyx does 25% more than the others though. It's fine for Carriers since they're not DPS ships but Supercarriers are
Maybe because Gallente are the drone race pretty much..
Technically speaking Carriers/Super Carriers use fighters and they are NOT drones...
Go to the market and tell me which folder they are listed under then if not the DRONES folder.
Originally by: Jim RaynorWell dude, in all honesty the capital ships should have pretty similar performance with each other..
So a Megathron should get the same alpha with its rails as a Tempest does with its artillery? This has to be a troll right?
Of course they are listed under DRONES where else would they be listed? They are manned fighter craft but they act exactly like DRONES but technically they are not drones. I still see no reason that the Gallente carrier/supercarrier should out perform the other races, it just makes training for any other races carrier suboptimal.. what's the point?
Who is trolling who? A Megathron doesn't do as much alpha no.. but it's still a useful sniper and it does generally speaking perform as well as a Tempest. So yes.. a Megathron, Rokh, Tempest, Apoc ect ect should all perform equally well at long ranges.. doesn't mean they have to be exactly the same no... ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.31 13:53:00 -
[967]
Originally by: Jim Raynor Of course they are listed under DRONES where else would they be listed? They are manned fighter craft but they act exactly like DRONES but technically they are not drones. I still see no reason that the Gallente carrier/supercarrier should out perform the other races, it just makes training for any other races carrier suboptimal.. what's the point?
Who is trolling who? A Megathron doesn't do as much alpha no.. but it's still a useful sniper and it does generally speaking perform as well as a Tempest. So yes.. a Megathron, Rokh, Tempest, Apoc ect ect should all perform equally well at long ranges.. doesn't mean they have to be exactly the same no...
I was trolled.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.31 13:55:00 -
[968]
Being gallente the best supercarrier makes no sense. Yes gallente is the drone race ,does it gives them right to be able to use bombers the best too? Absolutely no. And as supercarriers from now on are for doing damage with their bombers, giving one race 5%dmg /lvl
There is a precedent already , stealth bombers, caldari being the missile race doesnt mean that their stealth bomber is the best.
Also balance out fighters/fighter bombers.
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Kassimila
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Posted - 2010.02.01 08:19:00 -
[969]
In regards to the Moros drone nerf - You know what's awesome? Spending 300 days training for something only to have it nerfed 2 weeks before you get in it...... In the future maybe you guys could post some sort of changes "Plan", so I can train for the stuff that's not going to get screwed over?
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.02.01 08:52:00 -
[970]
Originally by: Kassimila In regards to the Moros drone nerf - You know what's awesome? Spending 300 days training for something only to have it nerfed 2 weeks before you get in it...... In the future maybe you guys could post some sort of changes "Plan", so I can train for the stuff that's not going to get screwed over?
You got a buff to guns, so i dont see the problem. Dreads still do around the same damage, so its all k.
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Shira'v'Dhraal
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Posted - 2010.02.01 14:58:00 -
[971]
So Supercarriers can't dock (so it need a dedicated account to be played)and while packing more punch than Motherships they still suffer from the drone's drawbacks in large battles; I don't see why they should appear on fleet's battlelines. If the character must remain onboard something I sure want him in a Titan not in a drone carrier that will do a dreadnought's job.
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Lusulpher
Blackwater Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.02.02 00:23:00 -
[972]
"So bottom line.. all carriers should get a damage bonus to their races fighters, it would make more sense and add some racial flavor to the ships in my opinion, that or no damage bonus what so ever. :)"
Agreed. The homogenization of ships is nice if you want to call the dps output at a certain point, "fairness in EVE". That's cute. The Manticore needs to have a unique Bomb bonus so that it is easier to recognize what you are threatened with.
I'm Gallente and can now fly the Nyx, but we get more Dronespace, and it's okay but our Drone T1 ships can't even carry full redeploys of their main Bandwidth choice?[this was a promised change!] Not to mention, the obviously true whines that the ships might not be baseline functional after their FBombers are simply wiped with a smartbombing ship.[FBs orbit at 20km right??]
You have to be joking. Less nerfbat, more making billions of ISK = destruction of at least billions of ISK.
I also noticed a small EHP buff to the SuperCapitals*[Escort and Fleet Carrier namechange for God's sake!], no, put in a racial Achilles heel please. If I'm a Minnie SC, I want to know instinctively what Dread will fold to my EXP Fighters, and what FBs are going to rip me apart, so I can target them. I can even harden that weakness knowing my enemy might bias for it. Now that bias is called a strategy, and it has a deceptive and definite counter.[enhances use of Fleet Composition for both sides, also reduces this dps/EHP Powercreep]
Without that distinction, I'm playing a combat spreadsheet on the Intarweb...
Oh and there is no endgame content to allow the SuperCaps to dock, even a PUBLIC ATTACKABLE DOCK would be an incentive for more warfare. As SuperCaps do not get ambushed when the account is simply logged out, indefinitely. THAT IS A BURDEN FOR ALL PLAYERS.[Stockpiling continues I see, as SuperCap build ques are also non-confirmable Hacking profesison buff time?] 7 |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Burning Ambition
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Posted - 2010.02.03 22:43:00 -
[973]
Changes have worked out great so far, gj ccp. Theres just one thing, my wyvern is smaller then a rev next to it - any word on increasing supercarrier size? -
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Murixo
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2010.02.03 23:37:00 -
[974]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Changes have worked out great so far, gj ccp. Theres just one thing, my wyvern is smaller then a rev next to it - any word on increasing supercarrier size?
Yeah I'm loving the changes so far. As for the size issue, all you'd have to do is make us a third the size of our respective Titans and we'd still be bigger than anything else without infringing on Titan-pilot epeens.
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.02.04 10:16:00 -
[975]
Originally by: Lusulpher Edited by: Lusulpher on 02/02/2010 00:35:11 "So bottom line.. all carriers should get a damage bonus to their races fighters, it would make more sense and add some racial flavor to the ships in my opinion, that or no damage bonus what so ever. :)"
Agreed. The homogenization of ships is nice if you want to call the dps output at a certain point, "fairness in EVE". That's cute. The Manticore needs to have a unique Bomb bonus so that it is easier to recognize what you are threatened with.
I'm Gallente and can now fly the Nyx, but we get more Dronespace, and it's okay?!? But our Drone T1 ships can't even carry full redeploys of their main Bandwidth choice?[this was a promised change! willing to turn in Hardpoint over this issue] Not to mention, the obviously true whines that the ships might not be baseline functional after their FBombers are simply wiped with a smartbombing ship.5*
You have to be joking. Less nerfbat, more making billions of ISK = destruction of at least billions of ISK.
I also noticed a small EHP buff to the *SuperCapitals, ummmm no, put in a racial resist'Achilles heel' please. If I'm a Minnie SC, I want to know instinctively what Dread will fold to my EXP Fighters, and what FBs are going to rip me apart, so I can target them. I can even harden that weakness knowing my enemy might bias for it. ****Now that bias is called a strategy, and it has a deceptive and definite counter.
**Without that distinction, I'm playing a combat spreadsheet on the Intarweb...
Oh and there is no endgame content to allow the SuperCaps to dock, even a PUBLIC ATTACKABLE DOCK would be an incentive for more warfare. As SuperCaps do not get ambushed when the account is simply logged out, indefinitely. ***THAT IS A BURDEN FOR ALL PLAYERS.
*Escort and Fleet Carrier namechange for God's sake! Did all the ex-military at CCP quit? ** tl;dr ***[Stockpiling continues I see, as SuperCap build queues are also non-confirmable Hacking profesison buff time?] ****enhances use of Fleet Composition for both sides, also reduces this dps/EHP Powercreep *****FBs orbit at 20km right?? Instead of making them vulnerable to all sartbombings, make them half the EHP and able to avoid most of "the wash". Then the guy in the smartbombing BS really has a job/role/purpose of getting to their range and annihilating them. And support ships can take them down too. Stop this insane "leave the flaw, more EHP, now more dps, now more skills, now more ships/weapons, now more EHP!" This is not WoW.
This post makes no sense whatsoever
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.02.04 21:21:00 -
[976]
Still need:
- Fixed bonus for hel (offensive preferably, so we have 2 offensive SC and 2 defensive SC)
- Leviathan -1 launcher / rebalanced launcher damage.
- Bigger supercarrier models.
- Separated drone/fighter/bomber bays OR slightly increased dronebays on SC.
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Jon Brutor
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.06 04:54:00 -
[977]
Fleet bonuses for shield tanked super caps is broken. Would be nice to have the bonuses applied instantly instead of having to recharge/rep it, which resets when you jump anyways.
I'm sure this has been said but I'm sayin it again
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.02.06 15:56:00 -
[978]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 06/02/2010 15:57:14 change that damn hel bonus lol
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
heile
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Posted - 2010.02.06 15:57:00 -
[979]
Originally by: LoveKebab motherships r overpowered :p
<3 satan xD
You are such a noob LK!
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trady mctradsytrade
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Posted - 2010.02.07 00:26:00 -
[980]
Edited by: trady mctradsytrade on 07/02/2010 00:31:53 Perhaps The Hels Bonus could be changed to a 5%tracking and damagebonus to FIGHTERS only.
Seeing as the hel is already the weekest tank and is gimped in larger fleets by being a shield tanker this could make it fill a nich as a support killer and would make it a better option for smaller less capitol oriented work, could make it viably useful when compared to the other SC?
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.07 06:41:00 -
[981]
Any supercarrier can just put out 20 not-figbees and be effective vs. subcaps, and earlier in the thread we shot down someone suggesting exactly that for the Nyx (IIRC, give the Nyx figs only and the Hel F/B only).
CCP's easiest fix would be to give the Hel an ROF bonus equivalent to the 5% dmg bonus (3% IIRC? I screwed up the math last time ...) and maybe futz with the slots a bit. 2 gank, 2 tank supercarriers, shield tanking issues notwithstanding.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 08:38:00 -
[982]
Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 06/02/2010 15:57:14 change that damn hel bonus lol
Why don't you fly a Falcon alt about it.
Seriously, the Hel would have been much more appreciated with my idea for a new bonus but no one like the idea.
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LoveKebab
Caldari LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.02.12 02:48:00 -
[983]
am i the only 1 who think that SC (+falcon alt) is pretty much untackable in lowsec ? and still can dish out 10k dps that actually work against bs, bc and even cruiser sized ships which is kinda ******ed since their main weapon against those kind of ships should be fighters... just sayn' :) xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
something somethingdark
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Posted - 2010.02.13 04:08:00 -
[984]
here is some feedback now that we got used to it
1) Supercarriers have 3 times the dps of a sieged dread on targets where fighterbombers can hit and they are umm shiney Dont exactly see the super special something that makes you absolutly want them on a dedicated account (because you cant dock)
2) Sieged Dread bowling is just as easy as it was before
3) Now you have to wait a minute or 2 before you enter siege, because if you are still moving and you siege, you fly off to never neverland. Did like anybody test this before deploying it ?
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BtRa4Un0r
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Posted - 2010.02.13 11:21:00 -
[985]
To Dread Siege:
Give the dreads when entering Siege for one or two Seconds a Mass of 0 and inerttia modifyer of 10, that would stop them quite fast.
To Hel bonus:
Give the Hel an Bomber and fighter speed bonus of 5% per level, so you can deal damage earlier and you get a chance to retreat bombers in case they get shot.
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heile
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Posted - 2010.02.14 17:39:00 -
[986]
Originally by: LoveKebab am i the only 1 who think that SC (+falcon alt) is pretty much untackable in lowsec ? and still can dish out 10k dps that actually work against bs, bc and even cruiser sized ships which is kinda ******ed since their main weapon against those kind of ships should be fighters... just sayn' :)
Be quiet you!
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Cheekything
Gallente Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2010.02.15 05:24:00 -
[987]
So I had an idea, rather than trying to fix what is clearly already broken, maybe a change is in order.
Currently seige has many issues some around the time, some around the bumping and some around how instant it is.
So stealing ideas from both the Pos modules and the Rorqual.
Dreads and triage carrier should "anchor" themselves when they siege, which would take time to activate, and take a one off cycle of stront but while in siege mode it uses tiny amounts of stront while the guns are pumping away to create the damage bonus they get.
This will cause the first bit of a cap fight to be a bit sluggish, however it will also allow some more flexibility as dreads/carrier can leave siege at will and are static when in siege so no bumping.
This opens up the possibilities of using them as defensive modules/ships as they no longer will be chewing on stront due to time but due to how they are being used. Granted if a person disconnects they will force exit siege.
Finally would it be just sexy to watch a fleet of dreads go into siege with a mini animation (say 15-30 seconds) it'd be just much win.
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Trade Maven
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Posted - 2010.02.16 22:21:00 -
[988]
Originally by: Cheekything Rambling that betrays a harrowing ignorance of cap warfare.
This would end capfights forever. I'll let you figure out why.
Fake Edit:
FC of 50 dreads - "Ok guys, they're sieging our station. We're going to jump in. Just tough it out through the lag and X minute siege activation delay. Normally we could hope that them running out of stront will be an advantage for us, but since the Cheekything Patch that won't be the case."
50 dreads - "Yeah...we're going to go ahead and log off now."
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.02.17 23:23:00 -
[989]
Since this topic is no longer a sticky, are we to assume that the issues discussed here have been resolved?
Namely:
- Hel's missing bonus
- Fighterbomber's extreme vulnerability to bombs
- Leviathan -1 launcher / rebalanced launcher damage.
- Bigger supercarrier models.
- Undersized Supercarrier dronebays / lack of separate bays for fighters / bombers / drones
- Naglfar having weakest tank and lowest damage, but 30% higher skillpoint requirement
- Sieged dreads that drift forever
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Ridjeck Thome
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:52:00 -
[990]
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Since this topic is no longer a sticky, are we to assume that the issues discussed here have been resolved?
Namely:
- Hel's missing bonus
- Fighterbomber's extreme vulnerability to bombs
- Leviathan -1 launcher / rebalanced launcher damage.
- Bigger supercarrier models.
- Undersized Supercarrier dronebays / lack of separate bays for fighters / bombers / drones
- Naglfar having weakest tank and lowest damage, but 30% higher skillpoint requirement
- Sieged dreads that drift forever
this PLUS
* shield tanking 'gap' on session changes
* lack of slave equivalents for shield tanks
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Lee Kin
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Posted - 2010.02.20 06:25:00 -
[991]
Originally by: Ridjeck Thome
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Since this topic is no longer a sticky, are we to assume that the issues discussed here have been resolved?
Namely:
- Hel's missing bonus
- Fighterbomber's extreme vulnerability to bombs
- Leviathan -1 launcher / rebalanced launcher damage.
- Bigger supercarrier models.
- Undersized Supercarrier dronebays / lack of separate bays for fighters / bombers / drones
- Naglfar having weakest tank and lowest damage, but 30% higher skillpoint requirement
- Sieged dreads that drift forever
this PLUS
* shield tanking 'gap' on session changes
* lack of slave equivalents for shield tanks
Since the wyvern can sport a far better ehp fit than a nyx, what would it look like with slave equivalent implants ?Maybe titan like stats ?
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Ridjeck Thome
DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.20 08:30:00 -
[992]
Originally by: Lee Kin
Originally by: Ridjeck Thome
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Since this topic is no longer a sticky, are we to assume that the issues discussed here have been resolved?
Namely:
- Hel's missing bonus
- Fighterbomber's extreme vulnerability to bombs
- Leviathan -1 launcher / rebalanced launcher damage.
- Bigger supercarrier models.
- Undersized Supercarrier dronebays / lack of separate bays for fighters / bombers / drones
- Naglfar having weakest tank and lowest damage, but 30% higher skillpoint requirement
- Sieged dreads that drift forever
this PLUS
* shield tanking 'gap' on session changes
* lack of slave equivalents for shield tanks
Since the wyvern can sport a far better ehp fit than a nyx, what would it look like with slave equivalent implants ?Maybe titan like stats ?
forgetting about the Nyx's damage bonus?. Compare the wyvern to the aeon for a better comparison
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Mirigua
Fujin Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.02.27 11:46:00 -
[993]
Sooo... any news on the Hel bonus, or is this going to be put aside for a couple years?
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Deva Blackfire
LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.02.27 13:41:00 -
[994]
Originally by: Mirigua Sooo... any news on the Hel bonus, or is this going to be put aside for a couple years?
After rockets :D
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.02.28 00:48:00 -
[995]
Wow CCP. Seriously?
For YEARS we beg for a Naglfar fix. You make a huge deal about "fixing" it in 1.1 even though it still has the lowest damage output, weakest tank, and a 30% higher skillpoint requirement.
Your reason for not giving it a third turret is "the art department can't handle it" and on a whim you completely redesign the scorpion hull?
CCP: Best trolls.
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William Caldon
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.03.01 06:13:00 -
[996]
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Wow CCP. Seriously?
For YEARS we beg for a Naglfar fix. You make a huge deal about "fixing" it in 1.1 even though it still has the lowest damage output, weakest tank, and a 30% higher skillpoint requirement.
Your reason for not giving it a third turret is "the art department can't handle it" and on a whim you completely redesign the scorpion hull?
CCP: Best trolls.
Adding a wing to a nonexistant part of the ship. Doable.
Adding a turret on a fully designed ship and adding a "seige mode" to it and stretching out the ship to make it fit. Not doable.
Unless your an artist at CCP, you have no right to complain you whiny *****
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.01 09:44:00 -
[997]
Right, because the new Scorpion model shares many common components with the preexisting model ... Don't comment on art-based posts until you get the new glasses you desperately need, you ****.
So, CCP, about the Hel ... is it getting a good bonus any time soon? :X
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.03.01 10:38:00 -
[998]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 01/03/2010 11:26:51
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin So, CCP, about the Hel ... is it getting a good bonus any time soon? :X
+500% to mining drone yield amount per level and +500% per level to number of alliances on your blue list.
Looks like your tear threads worked. I hope your happy.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:07:00 -
[999]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 01/03/2010 22:09:16
Originally by: Marlona Sky
+500% to mining drone yield amount per level and +500% per level to number of alliances on your blue list.
Looks like your tear threads worked. I hope your happy.
Uhhhmmm, I'm referring to the general consensus by both Abathur and the denizens of this forum that the Hel's rep bonus is substandard for a supercarrier, especially given the other tradeoffs inherent with it compared to a Nyx or Aeon (or even Wyvern). In fact, I posted in here that an ROF bonus equivalent in DPS boost to the Nyx's damage bonus would be one easy to implement solution, and thus give a gank and tank option for both shields and armor. Shield tanking still has issues compared to armor tanking, but those deserve and have gotten their own threads.
Forgive me for being worried that CCP's just gonna forget about fixing something they said they would fix, like rockets and AFs and COSMOS and FW etc.
Maybe you thought you were still in CAOD where your 'clever' jabs at my alliance have 'relevance'? This is where we discuss trying to fix ships to make them more generally useful for everyone.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:22:00 -
[1000]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 01/03/2010 22:09:16
Originally by: Marlona Sky
+500% to mining drone yield amount per level and +500% per level to number of alliances on your blue list.
Looks like your tear threads worked. I hope your happy.
Uhhhmmm, I'm referring to the general consensus by both Abathur and the denizens of this forum that the Hel's rep bonus is substandard for a supercarrier, especially given the other tradeoffs inherent with it compared to a Nyx or Aeon (or even Wyvern). In fact, I posted in here that an ROF bonus equivalent in DPS boost to the Nyx's damage bonus would be one easy to implement solution, and thus give a gank and tank option for both shields and armor. Shield tanking still has issues compared to armor tanking, but those deserve and have gotten their own threads.
Forgive me for being worried that CCP's just gonna forget about fixing something they said they would fix, like rockets and AFs and COSMOS and FW etc.
Maybe you thought you were still in CAOD where your 'clever' jabs at my alliance have 'relevance'? This is where we discuss trying to fix ships to make them more generally useful for everyone.
:yawn:
Maybe we should run to the CSM about this issue? To Assembly Hall!!!!!
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Zhintha
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Posted - 2010.03.31 21:01:00 -
[1001]
Necro i know
But would be nice if they could figure something out with a descent bonus for the Hel. Or do they think the rr bonus is suitable for the role Super carriers has now.
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.03.31 22:59:00 -
[1002]
I too would like to know if we are moving forward with attempts to get the Hel a proper bonus.
Is something wrong with a FB rof bonus?
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Kaaii
Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2010.04.01 00:35:00 -
[1003]
Not really capital related, but...will the black ops BS be getting love this patch???
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2010.04.01 09:35:00 -
[1004]
Better fix the Hel Finaly
Give it the proposed 7,5% Fighterbomber Expl.-radius reduction per level and maybe move a Lowslot to an additional Medslot and its Fixed
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.01 11:49:00 -
[1005]
Originally by: Linas IV Better fix the Hel Finaly
Give it the proposed 7,5% Fighterbomber Expl.-radius reduction per level and maybe move a Lowslot to an additional Medslot and its Fixed
Because that wouldn't be totally out of line with the rest of the capital lineup?
Hel's bonus is fine, base stats need tuning.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Doof Hardcastle
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Posted - 2010.04.01 15:11:00 -
[1006]
Edited by: Doof Hardcastle on 01/04/2010 15:11:53
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Linas IV Better fix the Hel Finaly
Give it the proposed 7,5% Fighterbomber Expl.-radius reduction per level and maybe move a Lowslot to an additional Medslot and its Fixed
Because that wouldn't be totally out of line with the rest of the capital lineup?
Hel's bonus is fine, base stats need tuning.
yeah man that rep amount bonus is really useful on a ship that doesn't have enough ehp as it is, let alone after fitting some cap recharge on it good call
dumbass
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.02 02:56:00 -
[1007]
Originally by: Doof Hardcastle
yeah man that rep amount bonus is really useful on a ship that doesn't have enough ehp as it is, let alone after fitting some cap recharge on it good call
dumbass
I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm too lazy to post the bunny with the pancake on it's head.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Murixo
M. Corp Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.04.02 09:18:00 -
[1008]
Edited by: Murixo on 02/04/2010 09:18:46
Originally by: Doof Hardcastle Edited by: Doof Hardcastle on 01/04/2010 15:11:53
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Linas IV Better fix the Hel Finaly
Give it the proposed 7,5% Fighterbomber Expl.-radius reduction per level and maybe move a Lowslot to an additional Medslot and its Fixed
Because that wouldn't be totally out of line with the rest of the capital lineup?
Hel's bonus is fine, base stats need tuning.
yeah man that rep amount bonus is really useful on a ship that doesn't have enough ehp as it is, let alone after fitting some cap recharge on it good call
dumbass
Bolded the part you didn't read. Would prefer to see the session change/shields issue fixed tbh.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.02 11:18:00 -
[1009]
Originally by: Murixo
Bolded the part you didn't read. Would prefer to see the session change/shields issue fixed tbh.
Some folks just wanna watch the forums burn man, they don't care about the relevance of anything they spout
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
BloodMia
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Posted - 2010.04.02 11:56:00 -
[1010]
Edited by: BloodMia on 02/04/2010 11:56:58
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Linas IV Better fix the Hel Finaly
Give it the proposed 7,5% Fighterbomber Expl.-radius reduction per level and maybe move a Lowslot to an additional Medslot and its Fixed
Because that wouldn't be totally out of line with the rest of the capital lineup?
Hel's bonus is fine, base stats need tuning.
In the same way, the big issue is that pirate implants are unbalanced for supcaps. Look at, hum nyx and hel, without slave and crystal, they have pretty similar ehp. Add them and let's see how armor superap seems to be overboosted!
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.02 12:00:00 -
[1011]
Originally by: BloodMia
In the same way, the big issue is that pirate implants are unbalanced for supcaps. Look at, hum nyx and hel, without slave and crystal, they have pretty similar ehp. Add them and let's see how armor superap seems to be overboosted!
That's another thing that'll need looking at - but at least CCP have admitted that it is unbalanced.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
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