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Capital Ships in Dominion 1.1

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 23 post(s)
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.01.14 13:56:00 - [841] Problems with a marauder style bonus would be, 1) They will carry less ammo 2) Less Ammo means more Stront. 3) More stront means more cycles. 4) More Cycles, means unbalances the other dreads.
Natasha Nikolaev	Posted - 2010.01.14 15:45:00 - [842] Originally by: EliteSlave Problems with a marauder style bonus would be, 1) They will carry less ammo 2) Less Ammo means more Stront. 3) More stront means more cycles. 4) More Cycles, means unbalances the other dreads. ^this
Ap0ll0n Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.01.14 16:02:00 - [843] Originally by: EliteSlave Problems with a marauder style bonus would be, 1) They will carry less ammo 2) Less Ammo means more Stront. 3) More stront means more cycles. 4) More Cycles, means unbalances the other dreads. Lower the cargohold, problem solved.. However, the Nag is split weapon, and i see no problems in this. Minmatar have always been rather sp demanding to fly properly, and the Nag is no different.. Also, if you did add a third turret to the Nag, what about the Phoenix? Its still horrible when not within 50km or around that. Deal with the Nag or train another dread.. Imo..
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2010.01.14 18:09:00 - [844] Originally by: Sunset Rogue Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Dursun Idris It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort. They have also specifically said no to this. Yes. In a childish "stamping my foot means NO!" manner with no reason given despite the repeated threads detailing how terrible a "versatile" dread is in EVE. You know its THEIR game.. THEIR game designers with THEIR concepts. We ask for changes to keep the ship BALANCED. But the CONCEPT of the ship is completely up to them to decide! If you don t want to use missiles.. jsut do not fit them,...
Bobbeh Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.01.14 19:13:00 - [845] Originally by: Ap0ll0n Deal with the Nag or train another dread.. Imo.. well Said Apol everyone knows its the Best cause its Vertical! How do FB's look with skill at 4 on the SISI?
sue denim	Posted - 2010.01.14 19:38:00 - [846] Originally by: EliteSlave Problems with a marauder style bonus would be, 1) They will carry less ammo 2) Less Ammo means more Stront. 3) More stront means more cycles. 4) More Cycles, means unbalances the other dreads. yes of course that 100 or so m3 is gonna be game breaking.... congrats for bringing up the easiest fix balance issue ever. And as someone else brought up while it was "considered" according to the other thread no reason as to why it was rejected was ever brought up. It seems like a great solution, if they had a specific and good reason for shooting it down and explained that to people I'm sure everyone would shutup about it (well most) :\|
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.14 19:55:00 - [847] Originally by: Sunset Rogue Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Dursun Idris It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort. They have also specifically said no to this. Yes. In a childish "stamping my foot means NO!" manner with no reason given despite the repeated threads detailing how terrible a "versatile" dread is in EVE. You realize that this is their property, this game represents years of their hard work if they dont want to **** on it with what they dont view as a good change, guess what? That is completely within their right as game developers. They could change every ship in the game to 1 armor, 1 shield, and 1 structure and there isn't a damn thing you could do about but quit ya big baby.
sue denim	Posted - 2010.01.14 20:16:00 - [848] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Sunset Rogue Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Dursun Idris It's not qq, i'm just trying to make a notice there can be a reasonable change in this matter with minimal effort. They have also specifically said no to this. Yes. In a childish "stamping my foot means NO!" manner with no reason given despite the repeated threads detailing how terrible a "versatile" dread is in EVE. You realize that this is their property, this game represents years of their hard work if they dont want to **** on it with what they dont view as a good change, guess what? That is completely within their right as game developers. They could change every ship in the game to 1 armor, 1 shield, and 1 structure and there isn't a damn thing you could do about but quit ya big baby. Yes but as goonswarm is well aware of whining incessantly about something that needs changing is the way to get it done.
Red Woodson Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.01.14 20:34:00 - [849] While on the subject of Minmatar Caps, any chance the nidhoggur will be looked at any time soon. It is the last armor tanking minmatar cap. And when compared to the thanatos, its closest competitor among the other carriers, it has: the same slot layout and cap/sec recharge at peak less PG, CPU, drone bay, EHP, total capacitor, sensor strength, and (slightly less) targeting range better top speed, agility, scan res, sig radius and capacitor recharge time Considering top speed, agility and sig radius generally aren't as useful for a cap, the different tanking layer to other minmatar caps, and the RR amount bonus that combines with lowest ehp to ensure they make tempting primaries, the nidhoggur seems to fall short comapared to the thanatos overall. As CCP is already looking at capitals, this seems as good a time as any for them to take a look at the nidhogger.
sue denim	Posted - 2010.01.14 20:39:00 - [850] Originally by: Red Woodson While on the subject of Minmatar Caps, any chance the nidhoggur will be looked at any time soon. It is the last armor tanking minmatar cap. And when compared to the thanatos, its closest competitor among the other carriers, it has: the same slot layout and cap/sec recharge at peak less PG, CPU, drone bay, EHP, total capacitor, sensor strength, and (slightly less) targeting range better top speed, agility, scan res, sig radius and capacitor recharge time Considering top speed, agility and sig radius generally aren't as useful for a cap, the different tanking layer to other minmatar caps, and the RR amount bonus that combines with lowest ehp to ensure they make tempting primaries, the nidhoggur seems to fall short comapared to the thanatos overall. As CCP is already looking at capitals, this seems as good a time as any for them to take a look at the nidhogger. agility is pretty useful to caps, and I doubt they'll change it again......

oj oj Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.01.15 04:16:00 - [851] Could we get a status update on the thoughts re: Shield vs. Armor Tankers? Status of Slave use on caps? Shield gang bonus penalty? Running the numbers on the Aeon v Wyvern, ganged up with their respective command ships and titans it's a bonus of almost 20 million EHP just due to the implants.
ByFstugan Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.15 06:23:00 - [852] Edited by: ByFstugan on 15/01/2010 06:25:03 I looked into SiSi and see that info on SC's has finally been changed. But Hel has still it's old bonus - perhaps CCP would like to comment on that (and everything else that's been repeatedly talked about since page 15 when they took off before new year). So far it seems that the change for Dominion 1.1 is only half way done concerning the SC's and CCP doesn't really care to do the job well but instead just seems to want to get something done so it's over with (otherwise I don't understand their silence since 29/12 in the middle of this thread plus their comment that the changes is "soon" here). I say it's better to do it properly now instead wait X years to do the fixes. To fix 3 out of 4 SC's isn't enough imo. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Jon Brutor Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.01.15 15:17:00 - [853] If the pointless remote rep bonus is going to stay, at least make it better than the carriers. Also, carriers are used for logistical stuff. No one will use remote reps on a hel unless they like wasting highslots.
Dursun Idris	Posted - 2010.01.15 15:19:00 - [854] Originally by: Ap0ll0n Deal with the Nag or train another dread.. Imo.. 2 things: First not all of players are playing this game for 4-6 years. Longer training quee means something for some people. And mostly: to train another dread thing; That's why i insist on change. Most players that decide to go for dread (i mean the %95 my guesses) will not train for something that takes 40-60 days more training time (without having PERFECT skills, just to fly properly) and ends up worse or same with another one. They will just go for REV, and means less variety on the sky, which is no good at all. (Amarr online lol...)
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.01.15 15:28:00 - [855] Originally by: Jon Brutor Also, carriers are used for logistical stuff. No one will use remote reps on a hel unless they like wasting highslots. Because certainly you'd never have unjammable supercarriers spider-tanking each other, right?
ByFstugan Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.15 16:29:00 - [856] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Originally by: Jon Brutor Also, carriers are used for logistical stuff. No one will use remote reps on a hel unless they like wasting highslots. Because certainly you'd never have unjammable supercarriers spider-tanking each other, right? Yes, that's what you wanna do - spend 15-20 billion iskies on a Supercarrier and use it as a logistics that's 1/4 as effective as a triaged carrier that costs 1/20 as much. Do you fly Hel or concider doing it? I guess not. The large majority that has posted in this threas at least concider the old bonus failed compared to the other SC's, since they will loose their triage and get a new role as heavy tanked capital killers. There will not be any short of carrier logistics support in the large fleet battles where this will be mostly seen. A couple of Hel's extra repping will not change this much. Amarr and Caldari has their extra tank, which protect their investment and make their 15-20 billion survive more. Nyx got it's extra DPS which make it more fierce in the battlefield, and higher stats in the killboards. Hel should be the second SC with a damage bonus imo so we have two of each kinda damage. Or else give it half a damage and half a resist bonus so it at least get something useful. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.01.15 18:47:00 - [857] Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 15/01/2010 18:54:30 You DO realise I was poking at the "remote reps waste highslots" instead of the "Hel needs a real bonus", right? I too agree that the Hel needs a real bonus, and I pretty much echoed everything in your wall of text in my own two or three pages ago - can't remember if it was before or after my math fail, but I do distinctly remember shooting down the WE FORM VOLTRON guy and suggesting making the Hel the shield-tanked gank-SC. However, there's always utility in unjammable support of your fellow SCs, and that applies to ALL of them. Specifically, he wanted to give the Hel the Nyx's damage bonus and give the Nyx a fighter only bonus, which would make the Nyx as undesirable as the Hel is now as the bonus would be unrelated to the task of killing capitals. Seeing that CCP fixed the signature radius et al of capitals such that target painters wouldn't be required, I suggested the Hel get some sort of bonus equivalent to the Nyx bonus as a simple option to CCP ... {EDIT - found it: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1236843&page=21#629 so maybe it's a few more pages >.> ...}
ByFstugan Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.15 19:39:00 - [858] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 15/01/2010 18:54:30 You DO realise I was poking at the "remote reps waste highslots" instead of the "Hel needs a real bonus", right? I too agree that the Hel needs a real bonus, and I pretty much echoed everything in your wall of text in my own two or three pages ago - can't remember if it was before or after my math fail, but I do distinctly remember shooting down the WE FORM VOLTRON guy and suggesting making the Hel the shield-tanked gank-SC. However, there's always utility in unjammable support of your fellow SCs, and that applies to ALL of them. Specifically, he wanted to give the Hel the Nyx's damage bonus and give the Nyx a fighter only bonus, which would make the Nyx as undesirable as the Hel is now as the bonus would be unrelated to the task of killing capitals. Seeing that CCP fixed the signature radius et al of capitals such that target painters wouldn't be required, I suggested the Hel get some sort of bonus equivalent to the Nyx bonus as a simple option to CCP ... {EDIT - found it: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1236843&page=21#629 so maybe it's a few more pages >.> ...} Nah - I didn't get that. I thought you meant since you objected to it being a waste and also argued with the extra strength from EW-immunity that you accually also thought it was a good bonus. I have not very much in memory who said what in former pages, but when you say that I recall what you mean. No matter what you meant just now it needed to be said again - at least if CCP still at all intend to lend their ears to our thoughts any more. Which it to me sadly doesn't seems as. Sad panda :'( _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
sue denim	Posted - 2010.01.15 19:49:00 - [859] Originally by: Dursun Idris Edited by: Dursun Idris on 15/01/2010 15:27:34 Originally by: Ap0ll0n Deal with the Nag or train another dread.. Imo.. 2 things: First not all of players are playing this game for 4-6 years. Longer training quee means something for some people. And mostly: to train another dread thing; That's why i insist on change. Most players that decide to go for dread (i mean the %95 my guesses) will not train for something that takes 40-60 days more training time (without having PERFECT skills, just to fly properly) and ends up worse or same with another one. They will just go for REV, and means less variety on the sky, which is no good at all. (Amarr online lol...) List of matar missile ships: Huginn: It's another mixed ship. Hound: Sb's mostly (and only) used for their bombs atm... Typhoon: Another mixed ship that is viable for using missiles. And they work best with torpedoes, not cruise. There is not much point to focus on missiles for a matar player, none other than naglfar... The hound obviously needs to stay with missiles and the phoon oddly enough works quite well with them, though I agree the huginn needs a change.
Bobbeh Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.01.15 21:24:00 - [860] See i dont see the minmattar Argument here Cause Its a lil Bit Longer of a train sure but people will still want to do it. 1400's Plus torps on a phoon sure hurt like hell, or 800 repeaters. Capital Size Missles hit for large numbers but its delayed damage, i for one was against the gun only Naglfar. I chose Minmattar Cause it was a little longer of a train, and back they they were p.awesome speed demons. The Niddy Is AMAZING for Triage, and for supporting BS fleets as it can rep better for shields and armor, than a thanny. They Hel Absolutely needs a new bonus i agree, these are Front like assault caps not logistics ships. Will High slot reps be used on SC, ofcourse they will if they pilots are smart. Spider tank is better than No spider tank. Naglfar Its Vertical and by far the coolest model for dreads, split weapons sucks a lil but it gives you the ability to choose damage types for both guns and missles. I dont know about most minmattar pilots but i fit my short range Tempest with AC and torps.... As well as my Phoon, muninn split weapons, huginn split, loki can have split weapons. I always liked the idea of giving the hel a Drone ROF bonus that equal'd the nyx damage bonus.

SolarKnight Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light	Posted - 2010.01.15 21:46:00 - [861] Protip: even carriers were repping each other before triage came out, it doesn't need to be locked in place in triage for it to be a logistics ship.... The Light in the Darkness
Dursun Idris	Posted - 2010.01.16 00:59:00 - [862] Originally by: Bobbeh See i dont see the minmattar Argument here Cause Its a lil Bit Longer of a train sure but people will still want to do it. 1400's Plus torps on a phoon sure hurt like hell, or 800 repeaters. Capital Size Missles hit for large numbers but its delayed damage, i for one was against the gun only Naglfar. I chose Minmattar Cause it was a little longer of a train, and back they they were p.awesome speed demons. The Niddy Is AMAZING for Triage, and for supporting BS fleets as it can rep better for shields and armor, than a thanny. They Hel Absolutely needs a new bonus i agree, these are Front like assault caps not logistics ships. Will High slot reps be used on SC, ofcourse they will if they pilots are smart. Spider tank is better than No spider tank. Naglfar Its Vertical and by far the coolest model for dreads, split weapons sucks a lil but it gives you the ability to choose damage types for both guns and missles. I dont know about most minmattar pilots but i fit my short range Tempest with AC and torps.... As well as my Phoon, muninn split weapons, huginn split, loki can have split weapons. I always liked the idea of giving the hel a Drone ROF bonus that equal'd the nyx damage bonus. GJ fitting missiles to muninn after 720 ii's. You will get better results with pest if you use your high's for utility. Missiles do not have much to add most of matar ships with missile slots other than listed. About SC remote reps/shield/energy transfers, they don't have range bonus right?
Bobbeh Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.01.16 05:21:00 - [863] Edited by: Bobbeh on 16/01/2010 05:24:35 Originally by: Dursun Idris GJ fitting missiles to muninn after 720 ii's. You will get better results with pest if you use your high's for utility. Missiles do not have much to add most of matar ships with missile slots other than listed. About SC remote reps/shield/energy transfers, they don't have range bonus right? We'll i find 2 AS launchers adds nicely to kill fast tackle with drones... AFAIK the Range bonus is still planned to be there, I dont think they plan on removing it cause it would make even after combat repping very hard. The Loss if i am correct is just the ability to triage and to clone vat. And yea I have one Pest with utility Highs and One with Missle highs, the RR is nice when you need it, but the 2 Torp launchers with t2 torps adds nice dps aswell, Also find neuts are nice sometimes.
Yuki Michi Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.16 13:48:00 - [864] Why so going off topic? We talk about the super carier here. With new skill req.
Harrana Teo	Posted - 2010.01.16 19:29:00 - [865] So if we are looking at changes to the mothership including the ability to move with the rest of a capital fleet one of the things I would like to point out in regards to changes is the need for dreads to be able to change out guns while in a combat system. At the moment the only ships that are capable of having the space to move these large turrets are Jump Freighters (not good to bring into a combat system) and Rorq's (Same) Why don't we look at increasing the corporate hanger on the 'super carrier' to 100,000 m3 to allow for the needed space to carry these turrets for the dreads thus allowing for capital fleets to have a more dynamic usage. Being able to fit from POS attack to Dread vs Dread combat just by approaching the super carrier and pulling the guns from the hanger.
sue denim	Posted - 2010.01.16 20:43:00 - [866] Originally by: Bobbeh See i dont see the minmattar Argument here Cause Its a lil Bit Longer of a train sure but people will still want to do it. 1400's Plus torps on a phoon sure hurt like hell, or 800 repeaters. Capital Size Missles hit for large numbers but its delayed damage, i for one was against the gun only Naglfar. I chose Minmattar Cause it was a little longer of a train, and back they they were p.awesome speed demons. The Niddy Is AMAZING for Triage, and for supporting BS fleets as it can rep better for shields and armor, than a thanny. They Hel Absolutely needs a new bonus i agree, these are Front like assault caps not logistics ships. Will High slot reps be used on SC, ofcourse they will if they pilots are smart. Spider tank is better than No spider tank. Naglfar Its Vertical and by far the coolest model for dreads, split weapons sucks a lil but it gives you the ability to choose damage types for both guns and missles. I dont know about most minmattar pilots but i fit my short range Tempest with AC and torps.... As well as my Phoon, muninn split weapons, huginn split, loki can have split weapons. I always liked the idea of giving the hel a Drone ROF bonus that equal'd the nyx damage bonus. 1400s + Torps?
McFly C0LDFIRE	Posted - 2010.01.16 21:20:00 - [867] Originally by: Harrana Teo So if we are looking at changes to the mothership including the ability to move with the rest of a capital fleet one of the things I would like to point out in regards to changes is the need for dreads to be able to change out guns while in a combat system. At the moment the only ships that are capable of having the space to move these large turrets are Jump Freighters (not good to bring into a combat system) and Rorq's (Same) Why don't we look at increasing the corporate hanger on the 'super carrier' to 100,000 m3 to allow for the needed space to carry these turrets for the dreads thus allowing for capital fleets to have a more dynamic usage. Being able to fit from POS attack to Dread vs Dread combat just by approaching the super carrier and pulling the guns from the hanger. although I'd love to see a boost to the corp hangar, I have a feeling CCP will shoot this down as another way to move cargo to/from 0.0 even though the Jump Freighter would still be more ideal for jumping since it can jump from high sec and dock. -- my sig got nerfed again, csm thread to get forum sig limitations lifted a bit
Miriallia Clyne Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.17 10:38:00 - [868] Originally by: Harrana Teo So if we are looking at changes to the mothership including the ability to move with the rest of a capital fleet one of the things I would like to point out in regards to changes is the need for dreads to be able to change out guns while in a combat system. At the moment the only ships that are capable of having the space to move these large turrets are Jump Freighters (not good to bring into a combat system) and Rorq's (Same) Why don't we look at increasing the corporate hanger on the 'super carrier' to 100,000 m3 to allow for the needed space to carry these turrets for the dreads thus allowing for capital fleets to have a more dynamic usage. Being able to fit from POS attack to Dread vs Dread combat just by approaching the super carrier and pulling the guns from the hanger. Actually that's a win idea. Before hand it wouldn't have made it as there were no jump freighters but today increasing the SC Corp Hangar to like 50K-100K makes sense, you won't use an SC to move stuffs around as a jump freighter alternative!
Pedron Niaal Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.17 12:29:00 - [869] I fly a Hel and i think a combo of motherships with fighter bombers (who are not easily smartbombed i you can get that fixed) will rock. The bonus is quite nice if you consider the new way of supercaps.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.01.17 22:20:00 - [870] While we're here, and on a semi-related note, any news on fixing capital ship scaling? The Supercarriers should at least be bigger than dreadnoughts - after all, the effectiveness of the ship and the size of one's epeen is directly related to the size of the model ;) (And on a serious note, any news concerning even a thought process for the Hel?)



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