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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Aaron
Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.07.28 16:31:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Aaron on 28/07/2010 16:32:02
Originally by: decoherance This NTDS sounds a lot like NBSI to me.
Hey Dec, longtime, hows it going? o/
I can see why you would think that.
What I'm trying to do is ensure the highsec guys saftey, they have to also do their bit by being co-operative.
Also it depends which side of the fence u sit on, if you have no ulterior motive I will do all I can to ensure your saftey. If your motives are untoward youll have problems.
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2010.07.28 17:54:00 -
[182]
Gabriel, thanks for the good luck wishes, the thing is that I am working with Aaron as a team, he is the boss and I totally respect that, I advise him and we have developed a good working relationship, Aaron has learnt a lot through experiencing the earlier attempt. Of course its not going to be plain sailing issues always arise, but where there is a will there is a way, I am confident that this will work. The truth is that neither Aaron or myself wanted to be fighting Local Spike and our earlier offer of peace was not an attempt to get at AOV or Dalv via you, but because we really do not want to be in conflict with many of the people who were in the first attempt of Hub Zero.
Later on I expect we will talk again directly, but it will have to wait until we implement, at which point AOV and Dalv become a very minor skin rash...
Originally by: Gabriel Angelus If you're trying to clearly outline what you're attempting to accomplish why do you continually ignore the red lines under a great deal of your words?
I do hope your latest attempt works, I truly do. My only suggestion is still to replace the OP as the overseer. Last Rites or Dracvlad could make good organizers. Plus a possibly clean slate with most of your current red list. Perhaps even some support. Just a thought that i'm sure will be shot down.
Good luck though.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.07.28 21:59:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Aaron on 28/07/2010 22:00:13 One of my main concerns is that the guys who are NBSI and prepared to help us will want to come here and be NBSI.
If we were to be NBSI while down here then it would contradict what we are trying to do. Our goals are as follows;
- Secure some space for hi sec people to come and dwell
- Create an economy in our new home and grow.
The people joining this ventue must understand that being NBSI will make the hi sec guys not bother with us and continue living in hi sec. If this happens then we have failed. It is also clear that hisec guys dont come to null sec because of NBSI.
I personally think the hi sec guys will be able to police the area themselves, this will be dependent on the amount of people that come down. We can get a few good fleet commanders and the hi sec guys will be advised on ship fittings.
If the hi sec guys are to police themselves they will need to follow exactly what the commander says to the letter. most of the time its jus "warp to x, or primary target x, secondary target x. Its all pretty straight forward, and lv4/5 mission runners should have no problem dealing with this.
I'm very carfully considering saying thank you but no thank you to the NBSI corps involved and making it into a venture where its only hi sec dwellers involved and guys with no problem being NTDS. This is just a thought.
But yes, it appears we will need more time to plan this. stay tuned.
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Demolishar
Internet Spaceship Raiders
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Posted - 2010.07.28 22:49:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Demolishar on 28/07/2010 22:51:09
Originally by: Gabriel Angelus
I do hope your latest attempt works, I truly do.
Sincerely, or just cause it means you have more targets?
Aaron: The reason bears hate NBSI is because they are the NBs, not the people SI'ing. I'm sure they'd be all too happy to be NBSI if the roles were reversed.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.07.28 23:36:00 -
[185]
I'm kinda feeling this "for the people of hisec, by the people of hisec" theme.
Would a couple of hisec guys care to comment? after all, I'd like to do this venture for you but I keep hearing from groups of nbsi folk with itchy trigger fingers. Whats your take on the situation? What are your desires?
I tell u somthing, Ive seen hisec dudes with no experience in anything come down here and fight like a pro in PVP.
All we have to do is be community and lean on eachother.
Ok, have a look at this, Once the community is started I will replace any ratting ship you lose in exchange for your assistance when ratting and looting/salvaging. its very efficient to pay for your ships with time. Contributing to the coallition is a good way to pool our resource and help everybody.
Hisec guys please speak up. You raise your voice and people listen.
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BrutalButUnfair
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Posted - 2010.07.29 07:42:00 -
[186]
Still think this is a good venture. Just one question:
What would happen if the alliance/cooperation grows big? (say 500 members) What would be the role of the alliance/cooperation then. Surely people would get bored at some point and start shooting neuts. How would you guys keep it fresh and all.
Greetz,
Brutal
Originally by: Dracvlad Gabriel, thanks for the good luck wishes, the thing is that I am working with Aaron as a team, he is the boss and I totally respect that, I advise him and we have developed a good working relationship, Aaron has learnt a lot through experiencing the earlier attempt. Of course its not going to be plain sailing issues always arise, but where there is a will there is a way, I am confident that this will work. The truth is that neither Aaron or myself wanted to be fighting Local Spike and our earlier offer of peace was not an attempt to get at AOV or Dalv via you, but because we really do not want to be in conflict with many of the people who were in the first attempt of Hub Zero.
Later on I expect we will talk again directly, but it will have to wait until we implement, at which point AOV and Dalv become a very minor skin rash...
Originally by: Gabriel Angelus If you're trying to clearly outline what you're attempting to accomplish why do you continually ignore the red lines under a great deal of your words?
I do hope your latest attempt works, I truly do. My only suggestion is still to replace the OP as the overseer. Last Rites or Dracvlad could make good organizers. Plus a possibly clean slate with most of your current red list. Perhaps even some support. Just a thought that i'm sure will be shot down.
Good luck though.
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2010.07.29 07:58:00 -
[187]
We would create a framework say a council of CEO's and we would work out our objectives between us and we expect that we will grow carefully, in terms of a corp getting bored, well I think that there will be enough people looking to Pew Pew to keep them busy, but if they did and did not have a good reason to do so they would be expelled and set red by everyone else. But corps do move on and I would expect that people would just do that, this is also a stepping stone for corps, not just players.
Originally by: BrutalButUnfair Still think this is a good venture. Just one question:
What would happen if the alliance/cooperation grows big? (say 500 members) What would be the role of the alliance/cooperation then. Surely people would get bored at some point and start shooting neuts. How would you guys keep it fresh and all.
Greetz,
Brutal
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BrutalButUnfair
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Posted - 2010.07.29 08:44:00 -
[188]
ok sounds reasonable, also Aaron is speaking of moving to another const (deadend const) wouldn't this mean that the dest const needs to be conquered. (I think all consts in stain are already occupied by other bigger groups.) And that this would be an act of war which is not NTDS. Just a thought
Originally by: Dracvlad We would create a framework say a council of CEO's and we would work out our objectives between us and we expect that we will grow carefully, in terms of a corp getting bored, well I think that there will be enough people looking to Pew Pew to keep them busy, but if they did and did not have a good reason to do so they would be expelled and set red by everyone else. But corps do move on and I would expect that people would just do that, this is also a stepping stone for corps, not just players.
Originally by: BrutalButUnfair Still think this is a good venture. Just one question:
What would happen if the alliance/cooperation grows big? (say 500 members) What would be the role of the alliance/cooperation then. Surely people would get bored at some point and start shooting neuts. How would you guys keep it fresh and all.
Greetz,
Brutal
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2010.07.29 09:04:00 -
[189]
We set them red, but the groups you refer to are already red to us, no issue in terms of NTDS.
Originally by: BrutalButUnfair ok sounds reasonable, also Aaron is speaking of moving to another const (deadend const) wouldn't this mean that the dest const needs to be conquered. (I think all consts in stain are already occupied by other bigger groups.) And that this would be an act of war which is not NTDS. Just a thought
Originally by: Dracvlad We would create a framework say a council of CEO's and we would work out our objectives between us and we expect that we will grow carefully, in terms of a corp getting bored, well I think that there will be enough people looking to Pew Pew to keep them busy, but if they did and did not have a good reason to do so they would be expelled and set red by everyone else. But corps do move on and I would expect that people would just do that, this is also a stepping stone for corps, not just players.
Originally by: BrutalButUnfair Still think this is a good venture. Just one question:
What would happen if the alliance/cooperation grows big? (say 500 members) What would be the role of the alliance/cooperation then. Surely people would get bored at some point and start shooting neuts. How would you guys keep it fresh and all.
Greetz,
Brutal
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.07.29 11:25:00 -
[190]
Hisec guys, please could we have some input from you? I need to understand what you think so we can better plan this.
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2010.07.29 11:52:00 -
[191]
OK this is difficult, but from what I have understood from talking to many people that the majority will not accept NRDS or even NTDS. I have talked this over with Aaron and we have come to the difficult decision that we will also apply NBSI in this new venture. As it is a dead end then we should not get people passing through like we do in UF-KKH, so that means that we are not really going to be shooting people just like that. So that means that people coming down to join us will have to get blue status first, we will also have a tier system in which early arrivals will be set light blue and certain systems will be blocked to them until they have acheived dark blue status.
This is a very difficult decision to make but because we do not expect passing neutrals in this area then we will reluctantly apply NBSI in this venture. Perhaps at some point when we are settled and have a good level of control we will look at this again, but it will be down to the CEO's to agree such a move.
I know some of you will blast Aaron for this, but it took a lot of courage on his part to make this change.
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Waukesha
Amarr Invictus Australis BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.07.29 12:12:00 -
[192]
GL with this Aaron broski, and yeah NRDS sucks balls
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Gabriel Angelus
Amarr Local-Spike
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Posted - 2010.07.29 14:04:00 -
[193]
I, for one, will not be "blasting" the OP. I'm just glad that whole NBSI v NRDS fiasco is put to rest. At least for a bit.
Welcome to the Dark Side, now help yourself to the cookies. ------------------------------------------------ Whatever is worth living for, is worth dying for.
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Malaclypse Muscaria
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Posted - 2010.07.29 14:13:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Dracvlad I have talked this over with Aaron and we have come to the difficult decision that we will also apply NBSI in this new venture.
must ... resist ... urge ...
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.07.29 14:52:00 -
[195]
The decision to have the venture be NBSI may affect the hisec population that would like to come here. I will endevour to ensure that if you come here you will be set blue provided someone from my corp is informed of your arrival. I will then try to ensure the other corps involved and the community have you set as blue.
I still feel neutrals will not be a problem, If there are genuine neuts in our new home I will do my best to get you blue.
I'm still not going out of my way to kill neuts, NTDS suits me fine. I will not argue with people who choose to be NBSI here, nor will I try to impose NTDS on anyone.
With this in mind, I still need some feedback from hisec guys. Does this venture sound like somthing you would get involved in? Does NBSI put you off? please, post your views here.
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Kephael
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.29 19:08:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Aaron Edited by: Aaron on 29/07/2010 15:22:04 Edited by: Aaron on 29/07/2010 15:10:33 The decision to have the venture be NBSI may affect the hisec population that would like to come here. I will endevour to ensure that if you come here you will be set blue provided someone from my corp is informed of your arrival. I will then try to ensure the other corps involved and the community have you set as blue.
I still feel neutrals will not be a problem, If there are genuine neuts in our new home I will do my best to get you blue.
I'm still not going out of my way to kill neuts, NTDS suits me fine. I will not argue with people who choose to be NBSI here, nor will I try to impose NTDS on anyone.
With this in mind, I still need some feedback from hisec guys. Does this venture sound like somthing you would get involved in? Does NBSI put you off? please, post your views here.
EDIT: I'm also thinking that any corp/pilot comming here will need to submit API's and possible voice convo's.
The hisec population that will live here will be crucial to our success.
Ok, At this stage I am seeking to get a list of interested corps/alliances that want to come here to help manage and do security. I'll need infomation such as what your strengths are, and your numbers.
I will also be looking to form a counsel and I'd like a couple of members from the hisec community to be part of it, so please feel free to contact me if you're up for it. Thanks.
It's called setup an alliance, then you don't have to worry about a dozen corps dealing with standings. But why would any corp want to join a fail alliance living in npc 0.0 when they could rent in space where they can claim sov?
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Roosterton
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Posted - 2010.07.29 19:14:00 -
[197]
Quote: It's called setup an alliance, then you don't have to worry about a dozen corps dealing with standings. But why would any corp want to join a fail alliance living in npc 0.0 when they could rent in space where they can claim sov?
Because not every highsec corp wants to pay hundreds of millions just to live freely in 0.0, and not every corp wants to be a part of the blob-fest that is sov space. Just a thought.
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Beowolf Schaefer
Gallente McKendrick Merchantile Cooperative
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Posted - 2010.07.29 19:35:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Kephael It's called setup an alliance, then you don't have to worry about a dozen corps dealing with standings. But why would any corp want to join a fail alliance living in npc 0.0 when they could rent in space where they can claim sov?
NPC nullsec offers a nice option for the more casual player as well. Nothing sucks like coming back after a month or two long break and finding all your assets are in a station you can no longer access.
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Erick Odin
Amarr Local-Spike
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Posted - 2010.07.29 20:10:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Roosterton
Because not every highsec corp wants to pay hundreds of millions just to live freely in 0.0, and not every corp wants to be a part of the blob-fest that is sov space. Just a thought.
Yeah some of them want to gank newbs in empire, like you and Demolishar have been doing.
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Kephael
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.29 20:19:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Kephael on 29/07/2010 20:19:29
Originally by: Roosterton
Quote: It's called setup an alliance, then you don't have to worry about a dozen corps dealing with standings. But why would any corp want to join a fail alliance living in npc 0.0 when they could rent in space where they can claim sov?
Because not every highsec corp wants to pay hundreds of millions just to live freely in 0.0, and not every corp wants to be a part of the blob-fest that is sov space. Just a thought.
You literally make 100s of millions in a few hours of play and don't participate in sov warfare. This is why most high sec bears are dirt poor and I'm not. I do participate in sov warfare, but then again I'm not a renter.
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Viva Che
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Posted - 2010.07.29 20:24:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Aaron Hisec guys, please could we have some input from you? I need to understand what you think so we can better plan this.
Really? You've done a bang-up job of ignoring those posts so far and only feeding trolls instead.
Highsec players want to know "what can you do for me that would make me want to move into dangerous space?"
Simply put, you can't offer them anything they don't already have in empire other than the right to shoot whomever they please without a wardec. The only players enticed by that prospect are not coming out to play nice with you.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.07.29 21:29:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Viva Che
Originally by: Aaron Hisec guys, please could we have some input from you? I need to understand what you think so we can better plan this.
Really? You've done a bang-up job of ignoring those posts so far and only feeding trolls instead.
Highsec players want to know "what can you do for me that would make me want to move into dangerous space?"
Simply put, you can't offer them anything they don't already have in empire other than the right to shoot whomever they please without a wardec. The only players enticed by that prospect are not coming out to play nice with you.
I can offer an experience, a very exciting one at that, one that will teach you new skills, and you'll get the oppertunity to mine veldspar rocks as big as a station. We can work as part of a team here.
Most hisec guys have to expand the dimension of their gaming, we got our very own epic fantasy world here where we have the power to mould it any way we please. There will be a process in place for you to dwell here trouble free we just have to follow it best we can.
Surely hi sec guys could bring a clone out here and have a look.
Ok, I will attempt to get a website up and running, this may be the easiest way for all of us to communicate. Lets try to be civil about this, respect eachother, and ultimatly have some epic fun.
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Roosterton
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Posted - 2010.07.29 21:40:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Roosterton on 29/07/2010 21:46:15 Edited by: Roosterton on 29/07/2010 21:44:08 Edited by: Roosterton on 29/07/2010 21:41:01
Originally by: Erick Odin
Originally by: Roosterton
Because not every highsec corp wants to pay hundreds of millions just to live freely in 0.0, and not every corp wants to be a part of the blob-fest that is sov space. Just a thought.
Yeah some of them want to gank newbs in empire, like you and Demolishar have been doing.
Lolwut? First of all, our most recent wardec was against 2007 players who had a far larger corp than us, including some 0.0 PVP veterans (We're both 09.) who actually gave us a nice challenge and drove us away in some fights. Secondly, that has nothing to do with what I just said. stfu?
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Viva Che
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Posted - 2010.07.29 22:25:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Aaron I can offer an experience, a very exciting one at that, one that will teach you new skills, and you'll get the oppertunity to mine veldspar rocks as big as a station. We can work as part of a team here.
Most hisec guys have to expand the dimension of their gaming, we got our very own epic fantasy world here where we have the power to mould it any way we please. There will be a process in place for you to dwell here trouble free we just have to follow it best we can.
Surely hi sec guys could bring a clone out here and have a look.
Ok, I will attempt to get a website up and running, this may be the easiest way for all of us to communicate. Lets try to be civil about this, respect eachother, and ultimatly have some epic fun.
And there-in lies the problem. You're offering an intangible. It's like advertising disney land without any attractions and saying "it's all here if you just use your imagination!" You're also assuming that highsec residents want to expand their gaming into a new venue. They don't. If they wanted danger and risk over more consistant profits, they would have either made the move themselves or joined an alliance in sov. space.
You're banking in the fact they'll come "have a look," but that is all they're going to do (if they go that far), before they realize exactly what they are getting into.
Simply put, you can take the carebear out of highsec, but you can't take the highsec out of the carebear. Risk aversion isn't going to change because you show them a half-decent market hub you've arranged in some npc nullsec station. They'll quickly realize the amount of work they're going to have to put in to make the same kind of lifestyle they had in empire possible and either leave or see nullsec for what it is: a playground designed to encourage pvp. Which brings me back to what I said in the previous post: you're not asking for pirates, but that's about all you're going to get in the long-run.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.07.29 23:42:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Viva Che
Originally by: Aaron I can offer an experience, a very exciting one at that, one that will teach you new skills, and you'll get the oppertunity to mine veldspar rocks as big as a station. We can work as part of a team here.
Most hisec guys have to expand the dimension of their gaming, we got our very own epic fantasy world here where we have the power to mould it any way we please. There will be a process in place for you to dwell here trouble free we just have to follow it best we can.
Surely hi sec guys could bring a clone out here and have a look.
Ok, I will attempt to get a website up and running, this may be the easiest way for all of us to communicate. Lets try to be civil about this, respect eachother, and ultimatly have some epic fun.
And there-in lies the problem. You're offering an intangible. It's like advertising disney land without any attractions and saying "it's all here if you just use your imagination!" You're also assuming that highsec residents want to expand their gaming into a new venue. They don't. If they wanted danger and risk over more consistant profits, they would have either made the move themselves or joined an alliance in sov. space.
You're banking in the fact they'll come "have a look," but that is all they're going to do (if they go that far), before they realize exactly what they are getting into.
Simply put, you can take the carebear out of highsec, but you can't take the highsec out of the carebear. Risk aversion isn't going to change because you show them a half-decent market hub you've arranged in some npc nullsec station. They'll quickly realize the amount of work they're going to have to put in to make the same kind of lifestyle they had in empire possible and either leave or see nullsec for what it is: a playground designed to encourage pvp. Which brings me back to what I said in the previous post: you're not asking for pirates, but that's about all you're going to get in the long-run.
I really dont see the big deal in a hisec dweller comming to live in npc 0.0, is it really that impossible for a hisec guy to think "I'm gonna go check out 0.0" ?
I will not lie to you or give you inacurate information, you'll have to take me at my word and hear me when I say this space is almost empty theres no one here. An organised group of people could manage it for their own purpose.
My best advice is to get a clone out here and just come when you feel like it, you're not required to do anything. have a look at the different side of eve which is pvp. All I can say is its great when u got a good fleet, and a reasonably matched fight. I can show you the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat.
Its up to you hisec guys, you cant say theres no one out there fighting your corner cos there blatently is. its not hard for the casual player to get in some 0.0 action anymore as what I am doing will help somewhat.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.07.30 00:31:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Aaron Ok, have a look at this, Once the community is started I will replace any ratting ship you lose...
Excellent. I lost a Kronos with T2 Rigs and all Pith-X and Navy mods...
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Aralieus
Amarr The Inf1dels En Garde
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Posted - 2010.07.30 00:38:00 -
[207]
Aaron said: An organized group of people could manage it for their own purpose.
This is exactly the truth for any ppl who have never been to 0.0 before. If you do decide to take Aaron up on his offer then you have to follow that to the letter, no BS. Do not venture down there thinking your gonna be all about yourself or you will find yourself between a brick wall and a hard place. The key isn't blobbing or trying to make your own fortune, but staying HIGHLY organized no matter what task it is your doing and participating as a team. A group of 10 organized mofo's can easily take out 30 disorganized targets. GL to all the ppl that do come on down to 0.0, it's quite unique in it's own right.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.07.30 01:50:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Aaron on 30/07/2010 01:54:39
Originally by: BrundleMeth
Courage? I want no part of this but it was worth a look...
dude, lol, ill give u a battle cruiser just so u can fleet up with me and take it into battle. when the battle is over you will have percieved the resonance. you will do everything u can to procure another pvp ship and use it again. youll be hooked. Youll enjoy the rats and you will jump for joy when u kill an officer spawn and find that the contents are worth damn near 4 billion isk. Your eyes will widen when you kill a hauler spawn and get 100k zydrine, or 100m trit.
Youll see the point of having a large team of blue guys workin a contallation, youll fight hard for your home.
I challenge you to come have a look, what u got to lose.
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2010.07.30 06:38:00 -
[209]
Well I was in High Sec and wanted to try 0.0 and this was an easy way, with jump clones you can jump back and forth and I do. I mine and do level 4 missions in High Sec and here I rat and take part in small gang PvP. One major part of my fun is evading people trying to kill me and picking my fights.
Many people in High Sec have this view of 0.0 being a place where you die a lot and my reply is only if you don't take care or make silly errors. Many High Sec Carebears have their fingers in different pies, so what about having a pie out here to see how it goes. You will learn a lot and it can be fun, to be honest small gang PvP is the best type of Eve combat going...
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BrutalButUnfair
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Posted - 2010.07.30 08:27:00 -
[210]
I still don't get these kind of posts. LET HIGHSEC PEOPLE FIGURE IT OUT FOR THEMSELFS!!!!!! They even don't have to bring assets because Aaron wil supply it for them (if set blue ofcourse). If they don't like it they can leave. It would cost them maybe a month of there time. So what? Just let them try it.
Originally by: Viva Che
Originally by: Aaron I can offer an experience, a very exciting one at that, one that will teach you new skills, and you'll get the oppertunity to mine veldspar rocks as big as a station. We can work as part of a team here.
Most hisec guys have to expand the dimension of their gaming, we got our very own epic fantasy world here where we have the power to mould it any way we please. There will be a process in place for you to dwell here trouble free we just have to follow it best we can.
Surely hi sec guys could bring a clone out here and have a look.
Ok, I will attempt to get a website up and running, this may be the easiest way for all of us to communicate. Lets try to be civil about this, respect eachother, and ultimatly have some epic fun.
And there-in lies the problem. You're offering an intangible. It's like advertising disney land without any attractions and saying "it's all here if you just use your imagination!" You're also assuming that highsec residents want to expand their gaming into a new venue. They don't. If they wanted danger and risk over more consistant profits, they would have either made the move themselves or joined an alliance in sov. space.
You're banking in the fact they'll come "have a look," but that is all they're going to do (if they go that far), before they realize exactly what they are getting into.
Simply put, you can take the carebear out of highsec, but you can't take the highsec out of the carebear. Risk aversion isn't going to change because you show them a half-decent market hub you've arranged in some npc nullsec station. They'll quickly realize the amount of work they're going to have to put in to make the same kind of lifestyle they had in empire possible and either leave or see nullsec for what it is: a playground designed to encourage pvp. Which brings me back to what I said in the previous post: you're not asking for pirates, but that's about all you're going to get in the long-run.
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