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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
944
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Posted - 2012.08.13 14:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello again spacefriends! Today I'm going to share with you our current plans for the tech one probing frigates, coming this winter.
These ships are currently used for Cyno lighting more than anything else, and we want to build their role as frigates for exploring deep space (especially to provide more interesting exploration gameplay for new players). We hope to see them being used for solo highsec exploration for newer players, or to support the combat ships in an exploration group in wormholes or lawless space. They're getting bonuses to hacking, archeology and salvaging so you can use them to both probe and run mini-profession sites. Their combat ability has also been directed at drones instead of weak weapon bonuses. We've designed them to be able to kill the rats in highsec mini-profession sites, although a combat frig will clear them faster. The ship isn't directly intended for a pvp role, so the ehp remains quite low and we skewed the fittings towards CPU and away from PG. Best way to kill the rats with this ship is fit a light active tank, drop drones and kite.
We wanted these ships to feel like an expedition vessel for newer players, something that can run sites independently and with enough cargo, no ammo use and extra dronespace to take long journeys away from their home base (even if they stay in highsec). If the style of ship is embraced then these could possibly serve as stepping stones into some kind of tech two "Science vessel" in the future.
Here's our current versions of the ships:
Magnate: Frigate skill bonuses: 5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Codebreaker and Analyzer range Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 3 M (+2), 3 L, 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+2) Fittings: 25 PWG (+3), 220 CPU (+10) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250(+90) / 350(-36) / 220(-22) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 325 (+168.75)/ 180s (+62.8s)/ 1.8056 (+0.47) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 350 (+54) / 3.8 (-0.32) / 1072000 / 3.81s (-0.32s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+5) / 40(+30) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km / 445 / 4 Sensor strength: 10 Radar Signature radius: 39 (-4) Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)
Heron: Frigate skill bonuses: 5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Codebreaker and Analyzer range Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 4 M (+1), 2 L (+1), 2 turrets (+1), 2 launchers Fittings: 23 PWG (+3), 250 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400(+126) / 200(-58) / 210(-16) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 245 (+88.75)/ 135s (+17.8s)/ 1.814 (+0.48) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 (+20) / 3.57 (+0.04) / 1150000 / 3.84s (+0.04s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+10) / 35(+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km / 430 / 4 Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 (-8) Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)
Imicus: Frigate skill bonuses: 5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Codebreaker and Analyzer range Slot layout: 2 H, 4 M (+2), 3 L (+1), 1 turrets (-1) Fittings: 20 PWG, 240 CPU (+10) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 275(+50) / 325(-19) / 230(-59) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 270 (+113.75)/ 135s (+32.8s)/ 1.8 (+0.47) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 (+52) / 4.15 (-0.04) / 997000 / 3.87s (+0.04s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+5) / 40(+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 35km / 450 / 4 Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric Signature radius: 41 (-4) Cargo capacity: 400 (+80)
Probe: Frigate skill bonuses: 5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Codebreaker and Analyzer range Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 3 M (+1), 3 L (+1), 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+2) Fittings: 24 PWG (+4), 230 CPU (+10) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300(+105) / 300(+26) / 200(-74) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 235 (+78.75)/ 130s (+12.8s)/ 1.8 (+0.47) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 360 (+26) / 3.58 / 1123000 / 3.76s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+5) / 35(+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32.5km / 465 / 4 Sensor strength: 9 Ladar Signature radius: 38 (-3) Cargo capacity: 400 (+80)
Let us know what you think! |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
514
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
i like it... but if they are cyno ships also why not give them a role bonus to decrease fuel consumption aswell like 25% less liquid ozone for cyno activation...
that way they are usefull for non noob players aswell? Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
945
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
We felt that they were good enough as cyno ships as is, and that capital projection isn't really an area of the game that needs a buff right now.
Since cyno lighting is such a big part of their use, the equalized cargo capacity is intended to make sure that each of them can at least keep up with the old Probe.
The avenues for these ships to become more useful to older players most likely will lie with hacking and archaeology. |
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Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
301
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
The idea of a profession site expedition vessel for newer players is good.
The role bonus increases the range on codebreakers and analyzers from 5 km to 7.5 km. First, why are salvagers excluded? Second, the bonus could be a lot higher - the spawn containers can be far apart. An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
514
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We felt that they were good enough as cyno ships as is, and that capital projection isn't really an area of the game that needs a buff right now.
Since cyno lighting is such a big part of their use, the equalized cargo capacity is intended to make sure that each of them can at least keep up with the old Probe.
The avenues for these ships to become more useful to older players most likely will lie with hacking and archaeology.
ok that works for me... (though i would still kill for an activation time reduction bonus 10 min is killer for solo logi) like lets say 25% reduction in activation...
i know this is off topic... but it would be awesome if you guys came out with a tech II cyno takes the skill lev V to use... and it only lasts 5 min but takes same fuel use...
tbh 10 min timer is a lot of time for it to be active. (for me who does solo logi having a alt char sitting there for 10 min can be rather long)
but having a tech II one would be nice... increased fittings and such..
that way the bonus on tech II recons might become usefull only 2.5 min when active with a tech II cyno...
other then that these changes look epic! Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Paul Clancy
Korpu no Byakko Tower of Dark Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, sorry, but for what this role range bonus would be useful? You will still need to move to 2.5 km's to loot the things. Maybe access range for all containers then? |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
113
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is a great idea Fozzi! This is exactly what I used my probe for when I was starting out.
I agree that the range bonuses should also apply to the salvager module too and kinda agree with Takeshi that the bonuses themselves may not be that useful to begin with. As a new player I would think the cycle time, and scan strength are great. But a drone bonus would be much more useful than the range bonus.
Also the Probe and the Magnete seem to be in a bit of a disadvantage sine they are keeping the 3 slot mid layout and will have to either fit either a codebreaker, or analyzer if they want a shield buffer and a prop mod. But as I type this I realize they're probably better as armor tanks anyway so disregard that last sentence.
Awesome stuff. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
180
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:The idea of a profession site expedition vessel for newer players is good.
The role bonus increases the range on codebreakers and analyzers from 5 km to 7.5 km. First, why are salvagers excluded? Second, the bonus could be a lot higher - the spawn containers can be far apart.
Edit: a range bonus isn't even that useful when these ships will likely only carry 1 codebreaker and 1 analyzer and a prop mod to reach spawn containers faster. I'm not saying they need a better role bonus, I'm just pointing out how the current role bonus will barely do anything.
I agree - what we need is specialized ships, that are able to fit multiple analyzer / codebreaker modules (like 6 med slots, 1 low, 1 hi)
You could make it ORE ship (noctis little brother) so there would be no problem with making multiple of it.
What You are proposing can be used by newer player, but have no appeal what so ever to older players - we will still use blackbirds for that or other lot-of-med-slots cruisers
Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
782
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
I like it.
Initial reactions:: The magnate has a drone bay? WTF? Never noticed that...
I like the idea. I like the bonus. It's gonna make the T2 ones look like a bit of a laugh despite the warp cloaked effect. I think you're onto something good and I'm glad that you're tackling these awesome little boats.
It's really hard to comment on much of this as it's a bit of a niche boat, but I think you have a good philosophy and groundwork to improve them for the future. I'll be curious to see how the noobies take to these ships as they go.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys A Point In Space
34
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
looks great. but i fail to see the idea behind the role bonus. since they all be more or less kiters to survive the rats, 2,5 km more range for hackers&stuff will not make a difference. how about some sort of reduction in probe launcher reload time or reduction of the time span between each probe deployment (the most annoying second in eve for sure :P)? or a reduction in the fitting reqs for the probe launcher. |
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Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
63
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Overall, these look good. I like the emphasis on drones, and the greatly increased self-sufficiency. It was kind of silly that the Imicus was the only one of them that wouldn't immediately crumble in a fight.
I'll add my voice to the people pointing out that the role bonus is essentially pointless. The difference between 5km and 7.5km on a kiting frigate is negligible, and the fact that you still have to approach to 2.5km to open the container makes it worth even less.
Now, if you change analyzers and codebreakers to work like salvagers, where they drop the loot in your hold on completion? Then we're talking about something. |
Lady Boon
Perkone Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Will the Tech2 variants inherit the T1 bonuses?
The concept for the frigate changes is great; but I hope the exploration sites get a bit of a revamp as well. Unless there has been a change, in my experience new sites are only generated at downtime. So unless you are quick off the mark, most good sites are hoovered up quickly by people in T3 scanning ships. So while I think this change is good, it may be a little pointless if you pilots have nothing to scan for.
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Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
235
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
In general I like it, but at the same time I'm very concerned that all races are being so homogenized. All ships of this type are going to make heavy use of drones? Drones used to be a Gallente thing, with Amarr as secondary. Now everyone and their grandma is getting a drone bay of their very own. Historically Caldari had the worst drone capability, but now Heron is 1 out/1 in bay less than Gallente.
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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
117
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maybe a boost to the ability to succeed at the actual hacking, salvaging and analysis instead of a range bonus. The drones make sense to me as my exploration ships have usually depended heavily on drones but it does seem a bit too homogenous. Overall, I like the changes. -á |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
301
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Posted - 2012.08.13 17:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think this is a good place to discuss the mechanics of the codebreaker and analyzer a bit.
I feel that it takes too long to access hacking & archaeology containers. In my opinion, if the player has high enough skill to crack the container open, then he should do so after the first cycle, or at most a few cycles.
A system where the ability to access a container at all is closely tied to the average time it takes to success is not ideal.
An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
418
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Posted - 2012.08.13 17:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
what about a module that covers both codebreaking and analyzing? so slot wise these ships wouldn't suffer on tank or such? Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
117
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Posted - 2012.08.13 17:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:what about a module that covers both codebreaking and analyzing? so slot wise these ships wouldn't suffer on tank or such?
Currently those take different skills to operate. They could combine them into one skill but exploration is already fairly homogenous and that would take even more away from us. -á |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1801
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Posted - 2012.08.13 17:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like how you're introducing an explicit exploration ship. Maybe you'll start to move people away from L4s as the primary income source.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1088
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Posted - 2012.08.13 17:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
The EHP should be higher. In fact it should be higher than combat ships. Lots of sci-fi follows this logic, you drop offense and speed for an increase in defense. Even the lore of eve says this is the way it should be. The probe is desrcibed as the strongest minmatar frig in terms of how hard it is to kill. Why doens't the lore match up with the in game stats?
Why does a ship lose offense and defense at the same time in this mmo. It's a double gimp. Why can't we have ships that focus on defense for a change at the cost of offense?
There are no ships fillong this role in eve. The high attack power ships are also the most defensive. It makes no sense, give these ships much higher bonuses, even tanking bonuses. If I was building a strarship focused on EW, I know I would make sure the ships lack of offense didn't also equal a lack of shielding or armor. Why wouldn't a target painter ship be harder to kill than a artillery boat.?
All EW ships should become the most defensive ships due to their lack of any ability to deal damage. I don't think the people playing eve will find this an odd request, many games follow this logic, or offering the player a higher defense low offense utility character. Hell even dust has a dropsuit that fills this role. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2012.08.13 17:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Remove hax range bonus, add AFTERBURNER small bonus *nervous sweatpearl*
I like where this is going though. <3 probe confirthisposmed
Yes. I'm a writer. And I'm a writer. |
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MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1089
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Posted - 2012.08.13 18:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
A quick example to explain my reasoning.
Rifter: Offense/defense bonuses
Slasher: Offense/EW bonuses
Vigil: Defense/EW bonuses
Hell the Slasher gets 3 bonuses, why doesn't the vigil? It can just be as simple as Role bonus: 15% more hull hp per level http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
64
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Posted - 2012.08.13 18:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
This would almost be evil, but one thing CCP could do to keep drones from homogenizing everything is to give every ship with a drone bay a role bonus to its faction's drones--or, more draconian, require a mod or a rig to control another faction's drones. This could be waived for dedicated drone boats.
To keep that from being a total nerf, the drones themselves could get a looking-over. But that's another topic.
If you changed the role bonus to a greater % chance of success per Analyzer or Codebreaker cycle, that would be awesome. Also, what MotherMoon said. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
204
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Posted - 2012.08.13 18:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We felt that they were good enough as cyno ships as is, and that capital projection isn't really an area of the game that needs a buff right now.
Since cyno lighting is such a big part of their use, the equalized cargo capacity is intended to make sure that each of them can at least keep up with the old Probe.
The avenues for these ships to become more useful to older players most likely will lie with hacking and archaeology.
The old imicus was the best by far, because it could solo highsec radars with its drones. As an experiment, one of my corpmates started an alt, gave him like a 10 mil loan and then plexed the account on its own merits in I think 3 weeks, by doing highsec radars in an imicus.
What about giving a probe launcher cycle time bonus? Its just a quality of life thing, where it would take less time to launch your probes and start probing. Also a cloak fitting bonus maybe? |
Alystin Wyndyl
Night's Shadows TriMark Alliance
4
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Posted - 2012.08.13 19:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
How about giving them a role bonus that decreases the speed penalty while under cloak? since these ships are the precursors of true covert ops ships, having this bonus makes sense.
Example: 10% reduction in speed penalty when fitting a prototype or tech II cloaking device.
This would actually be a useful bonus to these ships, as a common tactic in exploration sites is to warp in, cloak and then approach the target containers. This shortens the time spent in transit to the containers.
Increasing the range on Analyzer and Hacking modules is not a useful effect. Increasing their success chance per cycle ... now THAT is useful. Maybe if it would be too much to do 5%/level, that could be a 2%/level or 2.5%/level increase.
Also, I agree with Mother Moon about science-type vessels need to have more EHP, but not firepower. Put it in the hull, they have large cargo bays to justify the additional hit points there. Large drones bays too. Those both say ... there's more structure here to blow up, but it's non-volatile stuff. |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
140
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Posted - 2012.08.13 19:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
While I see why you want drones as the main weapon, this really isn't fair to a young Caldari pilot. Many ships later on have no drone bay at all or negligible ones. This forces them to put SP into drones when they need to put it into missiles or *sigh* guns. Since the new secondary weapon for Amarr will be drones, it makes sense for them. Since Minmatar kinda use everything at this point, it makes sense for them. Gallente is a no brainer. Caldari makes no sense.
I would rather see this use the secondary weapon systems as the main weapons for each race. |
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2012.08.13 19:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
I didn't think about that with drones.
I totally forgot that drones are getting a bit overused. I actually liked the old Probe with its 10m-¦ drone bay.
It is probably a long shot to say this, but drones should actually be a Gallente aspect aside to their common x-tra dmg/hp bonuses. But that is a different topic. It is just unfortunate that a ship will only really gain fame when it has at least some 3 or 5 drones.
Quote:How about giving them a role bonus that decreases the speed penalty while under cloak? since these ships are the precursors of true covert ops ships, having this bonus makes sense.
Makes sense in my eyes. I indirectly wrote a small idea for the scouting frigates regarding "stealth fighters". Nevertheless, having better cloak speed - without cloaked-warp - makes sense. confirthisposmed
Yes. I'm a writer. And I'm a writer. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
117
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Posted - 2012.08.13 19:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Obsidiana wrote:While I see why you want drones as the main weapon, this really isn't fair to a young Caldari pilot. Many ships later on have no drone bay at all or negligible ones. This forces them to put SP into drones when they need to put it into missiles or *sigh* guns. Since the new secondary weapon for Amarr will be drones, it makes sense for them. Since Minmatar kinda use everything at this point, it makes sense for them. Gallente is a no brainer. Caldari makes no sense.
I would rather see this use the secondary weapon systems as the main weapons for each race.
I think most pilots benefit from being able to control scout drones at a decent level at various points in their careers.
I'm curious what would be the problem with allowing a covert ops frigate to fit 3 racially oriented but unbonused weapons though. They should have just enough firepower to clear a high sec radar or mag site. They are still weak enough to prevent them from being effective in PvP. -á |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
302
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Posted - 2012.08.13 19:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
The rationale behind these ships using drones is that they let you pick a damage type appropriate for the region you're operating in.
I too thought these frigs looked very similar to each other and was going to suggest the Magnate to use lasers instead because they don't consume ammo, but then realized this would make the Magnate suck in Caldari and Minmatar space.
Where's the fix for em and kinetic drones by the way? An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
aoeu Itonula
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.08.13 21:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Curious about the logic of keeping the Imicus (and then the Helios) to only two highs. Really cripples the ships. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1801
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Posted - 2012.08.13 21:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
aoeu Itonula wrote:Curious about the logic of keeping the Imicus (and then the Helios) to only two highs. Really cripples the ships.
With the Helios specifically, it kinda depends on what you're going for right? The only thing that the Helios can't really do is fit cloak + prober + cov cyno. But if that isn't what you're after, it makes a fantastic frigate with a great slot layout...
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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