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Piugattuk CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES 15	Posted - 2012.08.14 22:09:00 - [31] - Quote Can somebody please write a song called "I can't make it nerf the game" how is it that a as a lone carebear I am making it, how, I took the time to plan and ask and skill, and stay away from what doesn't work for me, I can fly almost all industrials, almost all caldari ships and cross trained for others, do research, mission, mine, explore, trade, Cosmo, build, planning, going to other area's that others don't to find farming opportunities, not bragging just wondering how others cry so much I have tons of competition but it boils down to planning.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance 333	Posted - 2012.08.14 23:31:00 - [32] - Quote Inquisitor Tyr wrote: Paikis wrote: Inquisitor Tyr wrote: Nullsec mining is significantly more risk, cost, and effort then empire Mining I LOL'd so hard. U Mad bro? :p lol, I'm not.. but you are histerically funny... and wrong of course. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Sigras Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N 156	Posted - 2012.08.14 23:54:00 - [33] - Quote Inquisitor Tyr wrote: A void was created with the nerfing of drone minerals. Planning to fill it with something or does every ore in the game being roughly the same value constitute "balance" ? ummm . . . really? you know that the drone metals were a huge source of high ends right? did you see what happened to the high ends (zyd/mega) when the drone metals went away? they shot way up! The only reason the high ends are so cheap now is that the low ends are so expensive, so production is slowed. This was caused partly by hulkageddon and partly by the nerfing of the meta 0 drops. Hulkageddon should be over with the advent of the new mining barges, so we'll see what happens.
Aud Actori Ciomach Industry 5	Posted - 2012.08.15 22:06:00 - [34] - Quote Shizuken wrote: Aud Actori wrote: Shizuken wrote: The simple fix is to just double or tripple the quantity of rare minerals needed to build things... That would fix the problem immediately. That wouldn't work. It would force more people to mine, and existing miners to increase their yields. As supply increases to meet & exceed demand, prices would fall again. It most certainly would work. It would double or tripple the demand for those minerals which doubles or tripples the amount of character time required to produce them. If increases in demand dont increase prices then you need to explain to me how come I dont pay $1 per gallon of gas like I did 12 years ago. This ain't the real world... in the real world not many people have the money or expertise to drill for oil. The rest of the argument you should be able to work out for yourself. Needless to say, you're wrong.
Anya Ohaya School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 159	Posted - 2012.08.15 23:34:00 - [35] - Quote Velicitia wrote: Trouble is that nullsec has nearly zero industrial capacity, when compared to hisec. Hisec station -- 50 MFG slots. You can have 1+ of these per system. Nullsec station (outpost, non-drug base (source)) - 2 (Minmatar/Caldari), 4 (Gallente), 20 (Amarr). You can have ONLY ONE per system. So, what this does is make everything (in null) work out of POS. It's FAR easier to export zyd/mega/etc and import ships (or compressed minerals) than build it there. If there was a larger industrial capacity in null, we wouldn't see as much of the minerals being exported, since they could be more easily used where they're obtained... Once you built it, you'd still have to sell it. Manufacturing slots are not the only problem. Null sec has resources, but no infrastructure.
Dasola Rookies Empire Rookie Empire 50	Posted - 2012.08.16 07:33:00 - [36] - Quote Personally i see it as everything in this game. Adapt or loose. Its supply and demand issue as many have sayd in this thread allready. Too much highends flowing in market, less demand -> prices drop. Not really something ccp should fix, since its player created problem. or would you like ccp to nerfbat abc ores to reduce inflow of minerals from them? Often used clause in this forums is: Adapt or gtfo. I think it applies to us all. I have read enough of this forum to know, what ever ccp changes theres always someone to complain about it. But reality is, this game is mainly player driven, we the players are responsible what happens ingame. Too much something comeing in market -> prices drop. yes i know issues of 0.0 logistics, i handle most of my own logistics on carrier as i need ships, mods, etc.. But i dont go arround complaining about it. 0.0 is what we players have made it out to be. Sand box for warlords, that like to fight over systems. Not so nice enviroment for 0.0 industrialist i think. Try keep manufacturing lines going 24/7 when system can be lost in couple days. and then your locked out of station and its services. No room for natives in 0.0. [Insert something funny or smart here]
Sentamon 171	Posted - 2012.08.16 09:17:00 - [37] - Quote Galletrix wrote: Exactly the point with, supply and demand. As people notice what you noticed, null sec miners will come down to high sec and start mining veld. ABc ore supply will drop, demand stays the same, so prices will rise. You think Nullbears will take on some risk by mining in Empire? Even with the barge buffs? Doubtful but possible. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 659	Posted - 2012.08.16 13:24:00 - [38] - Quote Why would you import to null tritanium and pyerite when there's tons of it out there? -jut mine it and laugh at high sec miners and voil+á. brb
Pisov viet Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore 94	Posted - 2012.08.16 14:51:00 - [39] - Quote Lin-Young Borovskova wrote: Why would you import to null tritanium and pyerite when there's tons of it out there? -jut mine it and laugh at high sec miners and voil+á. Because it's not worth it. Nullsec logistic is extremly different from highsec logistic. In highsec, no matter what and where you mine, you can easily refine it in a 50% refinery station and move it in freighters to the market hub. Or freight it to the station with 50 manufacturing slots and use it there, then freight it to the market hub. The only thing that will stop mining in a highsec system will be depleting all the belts, and even then, it comes back a few days later. Nullsec works quite differently. First, freighters dont do too well there. This turns any distance between mining systems/refinery systems/production systems/market systems much, much more troublesome. The system in which you mine is, like all of nullsec, vulnerable to any hostile intruder. There are ways to protect yourself (intel channel, bubbling gates, etc), but ultimately, if an hostile had logged off his interceptor in the gravimetric site you're using, you're probably ****** (unless you watched local like a hawk and were already aligned). And when hostiles knows where you mine, you better get used to cloaked neuts, because they'll always be there, forcing you to move and mine in another system (until the industrial index of that one gets up too and the cloaky neuts follows). Then you have to move that ore you mined to an upgraded refinery station. As said before, freighters are KIND OF out of their element in nullsec, rorquals and JFs must do the job, at a much slower rate, and a much higher cost. 50% refinery upgrade being stupidely expensive, most stations are limited to 40%, putting a higher skill ceiling for perfect refinery. Then you have to move your ore to a POS or a station with enough manufacturing slots. The bests, Amarr outpostss got an average of 20 or so, I think. That means moving your minerals one more time, or having a POS set up with all the cost and individual risk that comes with it. Then once the manufacturing is done, the product shall be moved to the regional market hub, often a gallente station. Yet more hauling. All these steps must be done with rorquals or JF, reaching only a quarter or half of a freighters capacity, and requiring cynos, fuel and proper scouting. That is a lot of hauling, and a lot of costs to do it with just tritanium and pyerite. TL; DR: nullsec industry is too aweful to be self sufficient or export low-end minerals to highsec.
Idris Helion University of Caille Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2012.08.16 15:14:00 - [40] - Quote Pisov viet wrote: Lin-Young Borovskova wrote: Why would you import to null tritanium and pyerite when there's tons of it out there? -jut mine it and laugh at high sec miners and voil+á. Because it's not worth it. QFT, for all the reasons described. Logistics in null is an (expensive) nightmare, which is why CCP tried to balance things out a bit by placing the most valuable ores only in null. Mining low-ends like Veld is dumb because they are bulky, and would cost too much to move in amounts sufficient to make a profit -- you can have a much smaller volume of the high-ends to move around and hence better profit. When miners mine veld and scord in null, it's almost always for local manufacturing, not for sale in hisec. One of the reasons I got out of null and went back to mining in hisec is that if you're a solo miner or a small corp, it's nearly impossible to survive out there. You have to be in a deep-blue region to have a chance at survival, you have to pay exorbitant tax rates to whatever corp/sov owns the POS's in the system (and be subject to random lockouts), and you're going to lose some expensive T2 mining ships -- maybe a lot, depending on how hot the region is in which you're mining. In order to mine productively in null, you need the whole infrastructure of a big corp behind you -- Rorquals, POS'es with good refining, blockade runners if you want to get manufactured goods to hisec (or jump freighers for bigger/bulkier stuff). It's all a giant pain. Also, if you play in the US timezone, most of the really good stuff in grav sites and some belts has already been cleaned out by the time you get there.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 102	Posted - 2012.08.17 21:12:00 - [41] - Quote All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have ivincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. That sea of blue you whine about it requires a lot of effort to maintain and the logistics required to support mining in nullsec are insane. You're able to happily go afk and easily get 100% refine rates with little effort while nullsec dwellers have to bust their buttes to get anything mining related done. The risk : reward for highsec is way off and needs to be fixed. There should be far less reward in highsec or far more in low/null/wh. Goonwaffe is now recruiting feel free to message me in game for information about joining!
Denidil Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 480	Posted - 2012.08.17 21:22:00 - [42] - Quote Velicitia wrote: Trouble is that nullsec has nearly zero industrial capacity, when compared to hisec. Hisec station -- 50 MFG slots. You can have 1+ of these per system. Nullsec station (outpost, non-drug base (source)) - 2 (Minmatar/Caldari), 4 (Gallente), 20 (Amarr). You can have ONLY ONE per system. So, what this does is make everything (in null) work out of POS. It's FAR easier to export zyd/mega/etc and import ships (or compressed minerals) than build it there. If there was a larger industrial capacity in null, we wouldn't see as much of the minerals being exported, since they could be more easily used where they're obtained... assembly arrays If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains.
Sigras Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N 167	Posted - 2012.08.18 08:00:00 - [43] - Quote ^^ So much this its not even funny
Herr Hammer Draken Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 88	Posted - 2012.08.18 13:33:00 - [44] - Quote La Nariz wrote: All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have ivincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. That sea of blue you whine about it requires a lot of effort to maintain and the logistics required to support mining in nullsec are insane. You're able to happily go afk and easily get 100% refine rates with little effort while nullsec dwellers have to bust their buttes to get anything mining related done. The risk : reward for highsec is way off and needs to be fixed. There should be far less reward in highsec or far more in low/null/wh. LMAO, Guess what you can not have it both ways. I have heard it again and again from you guys that improving the mining barges will hurt ore prices because of supply and demand as if the gankers alone are responsible for the ore prices. Well they are not supply and demand are what controls the price of ore INCLUDING null sec ores. If null sec ores are cheap it is only because of an oversupply of those ores to the market. That is not the fault of CCP or high sec miners. It is because null sec miners are too efficient and over mine supply as compared to the demand of those ores. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing 386	Posted - 2012.08.18 14:28:00 - [45] - Quote Herr Hammer Draken wrote: La Nariz wrote: All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have ivincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. That sea of blue you whine about it requires a lot of effort to maintain and the logistics required to support mining in nullsec are insane. You're able to happily go afk and easily get 100% refine rates with little effort while nullsec dwellers have to bust their buttes to get anything mining related done. The risk : reward for highsec is way off and needs to be fixed. There should be far less reward in highsec or far more in low/null/wh. LMAO, Guess what you can not have it both ways. I have heard it again and again from you guys that improving the mining barges will hurt ore prices because of supply and demand as if the gankers alone are responsible for the ore prices. Well they are not supply and demand are what controls the price of ore INCLUDING null sec ores. If null sec ores are cheap it is only because of an oversupply of those ores to the market. That is not the fault of CCP or high sec miners. It is because null sec miners are too efficient and over mine supply as compared to the demand of those ores. That's one theory. It's also easy to defend. Just point and say...it's their fault! Although I think several years of consistent prices being upended around the same time CCP removes meta 0, drone poo, and now barge changes is more than a coincidence. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 103	Posted - 2012.08.18 18:09:00 - [46] - Quote Herr Hammer Draken wrote: La Nariz wrote: All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have ivincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. That sea of blue you whine about it requires a lot of effort to maintain and the logistics required to support mining in nullsec are insane. You're able to happily go afk and easily get 100% refine rates with little effort while nullsec dwellers have to bust their buttes to get anything mining related done. The risk : reward for highsec is way off and needs to be fixed. There should be far less reward in highsec or far more in low/null/wh. LMAO, Guess what you can not have it both ways. I have heard it again and again from you guys that improving the mining barges will hurt ore prices because of supply and demand as if the gankers alone are responsible for the ore prices. Well they are not supply and demand are what controls the price of ore INCLUDING null sec ores. If null sec ores are cheap it is only because of an oversupply of those ores to the market. That is not the fault of CCP or high sec miners. It is because null sec miners are too efficient and over mine supply as compared to the demand of those ores. You aren't addressing any of my points so I assume you aren't capable of rational thought bit I'll throw you a bone. The fact that nullsec mining is far less profitable than highsec mining is proof that there is something terribly wrong with the risk : reward for highsec mining. Highsec reward needs a nerf and/or nullsec reward needs a buff. Goonwaffe is now recruiting feel free to message me in game for information about joining!
Pisov viet Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore 94	Posted - 2012.08.18 18:26:00 - [47] - Quote Herr Hammer Draken wrote: La Nariz wrote: All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have ivincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. That sea of blue you whine about it requires a lot of effort to maintain and the logistics required to support mining in nullsec are insane. You're able to happily go afk and easily get 100% refine rates with little effort while nullsec dwellers have to bust their buttes to get anything mining related done. The risk : reward for highsec is way off and needs to be fixed. There should be far less reward in highsec or far more in low/null/wh. LMAO, Guess what you can not have it both ways. I have heard it again and again from you guys that improving the mining barges will hurt ore prices because of supply and demand as if the gankers alone are responsible for the ore prices. Well they are not supply and demand are what controls the price of ore INCLUDING null sec ores. If null sec ores are cheap it is only because of an oversupply of those ores to the market. That is not the fault of CCP or high sec miners. It is because null sec miners are too efficient and over mine supply as compared to the demand of those ores. Actually, before market and risk:reward comes into account, the amount of mineral required in ships should be looked upon. Typically, it takes roughly 10 time more mining time to gather the tritanium required for a ship than the megacyte. In these conditions, and taking into account the NPC loots, it's hard to imagine how highend ore could not be overproduced.
Sun sue Creative Export Black Pearl Alliance 4	Posted - 2012.08.19 01:19:00 - [48] - Quote Get a Rorqual and start compressing & 0.0 logistics becomes as sweet as pie. Now you can mine ABC's or 123's and adjust to the trend of the market as you please.
Tenris Anis Schattenengel Clan 51	Posted - 2012.08.19 02:08:00 - [49] - Quote Inquisitor Tyr wrote: Dear CCP: Scordite, Veldspar and Plagioclase are now more valuable to mine than Bistot. And Crockite is the 11th least valuable Ore. What ever happened to the "Risk-Reward" scale I have heard referenced in so many Dev Blogs? A void was created with the nerfing of drone minerals. Planning to fill it with something or does every ore in the game being roughly the same value constitute "balance" ? If all ores being of equal value, and high sec ores being worth just as much as nullsec ores, is the vision for mining I suggest removing all the various ores and replacing it all with "RockOre". And instead of using different minerals, players can build all ships with 1 material - "RockOre". Real nice and simplestupid. Ridiculous right? I suspect most Eve players aren't interested in something quite so dumbed down. Unless you happen to be in a -1.0 truesec system that spawns arkonor naturally, you are just as well off mining in empire where you can AFK (something you canGÇÖt do in null). And no, the industry upgrades with hidden belts donGÇÖt make up for it. e.g. The level 1 upgrade contains mostly Spodumain, which is among the least valuable ores in the game (based on Jita prices at the time of this writing). So whatGÇÖs there to look forward to for the upgrade - cockite and bistot worth less than veldspar and a couple roids with arkonor and mercoxit. In Sum - Nullsec mining is significantly more risk, cost, and effort then empire Mining, and it requires your complete attention on local, but the reward for the extra effort is no longer there. IF it would take more effort to mine abc than veld, may I ask you why prices suggest otherwise? You are correct there is an imbalance and it should be fixed, mining abc should not make as accessible to everyone. Mining abc should be harder, and not the same numbling boring job it is. Pisov viet wrote: [quote=Herr Hammer Draken] Typically, it takes roughly 10 time more mining time to gather the tritanium required for a ship than the megacyte. In these conditions, and taking into account the NPC loots, it's hard to imagine how highend ore could not be overproduced. Is it or is it not? Why bother with so called high end mining when its not worth the effort at all? Are miner really such idiots to waste their time?
Paikis Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking 121	Posted - 2012.08.19 04:56:00 - [50] - Quote La Nariz wrote: All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have ivincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. Confirming that high sec miners are mining behind a wall of blues, with intel channels that can tell you when a ganker is coming. Also, they can use a Rorq for extra boosts above what an Orca can give, as well as compression of ore to make haulling it easier.
Frying Doom Zat's Affiliated Traders 530	Posted - 2012.08.19 06:35:00 - [51] - Quote La Nariz wrote: All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have ivincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. That sea of blue you whine about it requires a lot of effort to maintain and the logistics required to support mining in nullsec are insane. You're able to happily go afk and easily get 100% refine rates with little effort while nullsec dwellers have to bust their buttes to get anything mining related done. The risk : reward for highsec is way off and needs to be fixed. There should be far less reward in highsec or far more in low/null/wh. If it was that hard fewer people would be doing it and the price would not be on the floor. The fact that the market IS oversupplied and that the number of people mining is WAY WAY UP, is a good indication the its not that hard. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Kaivar Lancer General Exports 220	Posted - 2012.08.19 07:51:00 - [52] - Quote Nullsec mining is safer than high sec. That's why nullsec ores are so freaken cheap. Leave it as it is and let the free market sort it out.
Pipa Porto 804	Posted - 2012.08.19 10:30:00 - [53] - Quote Paikis wrote: La Nariz wrote: All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have ivincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. Confirming that high sec miners are mining behind a wall of blues, with intel channels that can tell you when a ganker is coming. Also, they can use a Rorq for extra boosts above what an Orca can give, as well as compression of ore to make haulling it easier. High Sec miners could set up intel channels, they choose not to. Remember, those intel channels aren't automatic, the way CONCORD is, there are people putting in effort, and that effort keeps them safe. Sending your uncompressed, unrefined Ore to Jita from wherever you are in HS (via RF/Push) is cheaper by far than moving any amount of ore from just about anywhere in Null (I suppose if you mined in EC-P8R, logistics would be pretty cheap). Compression costs money in HW consumption, and JF (or Rorq) transport to HS costs (quite a lot of) money in Topes consumption, and on top of that, you have whatever it costs to ship it to Jita (doing it yourself isn't free, same way minerals you mine aren't). So Compression just makes hauling a little bit less painful than it otherwise would be. HS hauling is much, much easier. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 105	Posted - 2012.08.19 17:19:00 - [54] - Quote ^^: Read that post Pipa hit a bunch of good things. Pipa Porto wrote: Anyway, the Nullsec ores are cheap because there are still massive Drone poop era mineral stockpiles being drawn down. Tenris Anis wrote: La Nariz wrote: You aren't addressing any of my points so I assume you aren't capable of rational thought bit I'll throw you a bone. The fact that nullsec mining is far less profitable than highsec mining is proof that there is something terribly wrong with the risk : reward for highsec mining. Highsec reward needs a nerf and/or nullsec reward needs a buff. That is a false-cause fallacy of yours. The fact that null sec mining is far less profitable than high sec mining means just that high-sec mining is more profitable. Is it really the risk vs reward questions? Than why the sandbox does not solve the problem? People seem to be fine to mine for that price. Are you calling all null sec miners idiots? All of them? Is the risk really higher in well secured systems with only blues within 20 jumps for nullbears? Maybe the problem is that because the risk is low, the cost are low and you can do it via botting and afk "playing" it is to popular in low sec to mine those "valuable" resources. Seems at least to me more realistic reason why miners produce more of something than there is demand for it. If you are really, really pissed about this I strongly recommend you to hunt more null sec miners to decrease supply, this will increase risk and reward of null sec mining just fine. That fallacy thing you really should research it before you decide to try and use it . It is a risk : reward problem. In highsec can you be hot dropped? In highsec can you be bubbled? In highsec can roaming gangs comprised of people who have not wardeced you shoot you without concord retaliation? In high sec do you have to use jump freighters/rorquals to move your minerals/ore? In highsec do you have battleship rats in the belts/sites? In highsec can you be bombed? In highsec do you have to use ridiculous methods that CCP disdains (gun compression) to move your minerals in a less pain inducing format? In highsec do you have to interact with any other group of rival players to guarantee a modicum of safety? In highsec are you required to run intel channels to operate efficiently? The answer to all of the above is no and they are all good reason why the risk : reward dynamic of nullsec mining is way off balance when compared to highsec mining. The risk for nullsec mining is way higher than the reward and the risk for highsec mining is way lower than the reward. Did it ever cross your mind that CCP designs the game but is not omniscient and does not see all of the consequences of their changes right away? CCP makes mistakes (often) when making alterations and this risk : reward problem is a huge example of that. Furthermore the "sandbox" does nothing it is an abstract concept used to define the bounds of operating in the game, it cannot fix anything. The only thing I'm willing to call nullsec miners is lazy and that's because they are not actively campagining against the total BS that is the high reward and nearly non-existant risk of highsec mining. I should address this too because I know there will be whining about it. The "sea of blue" that is constantly whined about requires massive social effort to maintain and is crucial to being a sov holding alliance in nullsec. Whining about "sea's of blue" is basically screaming NERF MAKING FRIENDS! Highsec people are perfectly capable of creating intel channels and "sea's of blue" around them as well but it requires effort and that seems to be something that highsec people will not have anything to do with. Goonwaffe is now recruiting feel free to message me in game for information about joining!
Matius Toskavich State War Academy Caldari State 22	Posted - 2012.08.19 22:47:00 - [55] - Quote So things take a little effort, oh boohoo cry me a river. Null is safer than High Sec, now HTFU.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 106	Posted - 2012.08.19 23:01:00 - [56] - Quote Matius Toskavich wrote: I am a tardly npc alt that does not provide any argument and howls drivel Gee thanks for that. Goonwaffe is now recruiting feel free to message me in game for information about joining!
Dystopia Arkaral Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.08.19 23:03:00 - [57] - Quote If you are in an organised group, logistic and production in null are pretty easy a few jump bridges, a supply of ice and you use frieghters An organised indy corp can make very good isk selling prefited alliance equiped ships
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 106	Posted - 2012.08.19 23:10:00 - [58] - Quote Dystopia Arkaral wrote: If you are in an organised group, logistic and production in null are pretty easy a few jump bridges, a supply of ice and you use frieghters An organised indy corp can make very good isk selling prefited alliance equiped ships Not nearly as easy as an organized highsec group. You have no idea what you're talking about, freighters in nullsec are free killmails. Which is why Rorquals and jump freighters must be used to move things around. So to compare to highsec mining logistics nullsec mining logistics require: 1. Liquid ozone, 2. A cyno ship, 3. Isotopes, 4. Lots and lots of awareness. Highsec mining logistics requires: 1. Clicking the autopilot button. There is way more risk in the nullsec portion than in the highsec portion which is as it should be. The problem comes in that the highsec portion carries far more reward than the nullsec portion. Goonwaffe is now recruiting feel free to message me in game for information about joining!
Pipa Porto 815	Posted - 2012.08.20 02:08:00 - [59] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Highsec mining logistics requires: 1. Clicking the autopilot button. There is way more risk in the nullsec portion than in the highsec portion which is as it should be. The problem comes in that the highsec portion carries far more reward than the nullsec portion. To be fair, you also have to make sure your cargo is worth leas than (2b now, is it?). (Once Crimewatch comes out, that'll be 5B+). So you have to look at that little number in the bottom right of the cargo window, which is hard. Once the stockpiles dry up, it's going to balance out fine. Nullsec ores (except Spod because nobody likes Spod) will float based on the relative numbers of HS vs Nullsec miners. There's no way to balance an unlimited source of resources such that Nullsec ores will always be better than HS ores (I mean, they could re-balance Grav Sites to include huge Veld roids, which would effectively add HS ore miners). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
Revolution Rising Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 353	Posted - 2012.08.20 04:32:00 - [60] - Quote I honestly think this has more to do with the botters and RMT factories having their system of play destroyed more than anything. The prices on Zydrine and Megacyte were being constantly driven down for years by drone regions and botters. This meant the botters controlled price and thus controlled how much of the low-ends were viable for mining also - if you have X Zydrine ready for a Titan build, then you only need Y Tritanium to start the build. In turn this likely drove away many of the mining corps in empire that once upon a time made money from trit - replaced again by more botters. The lack of botters now has possibly created a void in some of the variously different mining fields. The prices of Zydrine and Megacyte went up, more people in 0.0 mined them thus creating a need for more tritanium/mexallon etc.. which isn't being met, thus the price rise. It might take some time for those niches to fill again with players willing to mine the ores. Basically they shook the tree, lots of stuff fell out - not all the primary producers are being replaced very quickly I'd imagine. CSM7 Skype Leak

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