Your idea here of a buyback program would work if industry was well off outside of highsec. As it is now there is no reason to do any industry outside of highsec other than supercapital construction.

Wait, are you actually telling me that the Drakes you fly in GSF aren't built in null-sec? Surely you guys aren't flying to Jita and buying them to freight them back? And since I feel reasonably comfortable that the answer to that is, "Of course not. We build them here," then the follow on question becomes, "Surely you're not buying your TRIT in Jita, right?"

I agree, the majority of things probably do get built in hi-sec. But if you're building NOTHING in null-sec then I have to imagine that you're doing it wrong.

I very much doubt any significant amount of modules are built in Nullsec (a Rhea full of T2 modules will supply a well used hub in nullsec for quite some time).

@Piugattuk: Not going to bother with an intelligent response to that instead I'll just post this gem from your bio.


Your idea here of a buyback program would work if industry was well off outside of highsec. As it is now there is no reason to do any industry outside of highsec other than supercapital construction.

You can get a Rhea to Jita? Damn there is so much stuff to learn in this game still...

All the People claiming high sec has more risk are idiots. You have invincible super police to protect you along with EHP buffs, multiple suicide ganking nerfs and cheap logistics. That sea of blue you whine about it requires a lot of effort to maintain and the logistics required to support mining in nullsec are insane. You're able to happily go afk and easily get 100% refine rates with little effort while nullsec dwellers have to bust their buttes to get anything mining related done. The risk : reward for highsec is way off and needs to be fixed. There should be far less reward in highsec or far more in low/null/wh.

Way off??? huh, everything worth something (officer mods), ABC ore, flying cash bags (BS NPC'S), yes living in the country side with a bunch of hillbillies that shoot anything that moves is the price for living in that cash register called me 0.0, it is the way it is because you all have itchy trigger fingers it hurts soooo bad to behave and stop shooting one another. blah, won't understand.

100% Totally agree with the above.

Omber grav site are the equivalent of the game trolling you. All the time spent pinpointing it gets you ore worth less than belt rocks.

The ore values, relative to each other, are not as CCP intended them to be. CCP intended scanning for grav sites, even in high-sec, to be an attractive and valuable thing to do. CCP intended for the kinds of ores found in high-sec grav sites to be worth much more, per cubic meter, than the kinds of ores that can be found in high-sec asteroid belts.

The game isn't working as intended.

Assuming someone wanted to do the mining, would the price need to be super low to fight the relative efficiency of hauling jump freighter worth of items for trit and such?

Wait, are you actually telling me that the Drakes you fly in GSF aren't built in null-sec? Surely you guys aren't flying to Jita and buying them to freight them back? And since I feel reasonably comfortable that the answer to that is, "Of course not. We build them here," then the follow on question becomes, "Surely you're not buying your TRIT in Jita, right?"

It's an exaggeration in the extreme to say "... there is no reason to do any industry outside of highsec."

I feel reasonably comfortable that the NC. Zealots you're shooting down are coming from hi-sec. But your drakes have to be entirely native production, surely?

I would assume that missiles and other ammo are also produced locally as well. Modules, maybe not (although commonly used modules are probably produced locally as well). And do you export all your tech raw? or do you process it into Platinum Technite and then Fullerides and Nanotransistors? Because that's also industry.

I agree, the majority of things probably do get built in hi-sec. But if you're building NOTHING in null-sec then I have to imagine that you're doing it wrong.

Then how do you explain the abysmally low prices of the high-end minerals like Megacyte and Morphite? It's more profitable to mine Veld and Scordite in high because nullbears are overmining high-ends in null. Logistics in null used to be a lot worse than now, but JF's and jump bridge networks took a lot of the ouch out of it. It's still not as easy as highsec, true, but it's a lot easier than in lowsec. I've mined extensively in both nullsec and in highsec, and I can say that mining in null is just as "safe" as in high if you're behind a blue firewall. I've gone weeks in null without ever seeing a single red.

I moved back to highsec because the money is better, not because it is safer. (Though the two things are related.)

As has been stated plenty of times before npc alt. There are still massive stores pre-drone poop nerf that are being liquidated. We can't call it overmining just yet unless you want to go get numbers from CCP Diagoras.

That stuff is in stock for a long time still or are we going to see the market re-adjust to the mining rate soon?

They'll be totally liquidated when the net balance of minerals mined vs minerals destroyed amounts to enough of a mineral deficit to wipe out all of the minerals available at the time of the nerf.

They'll, of course, have stopped being a factor in mineral prices well before that.

As for specifically when those things would happen, I'm sure you could figure that out by doing some analysis of market data from the months leading up to the drone poop nerf (especially the period between announcement and release). You might also have to study (and make certain assumptions about) the number of Drone ratters and the amount of minerals they produced over the years that Drone mining was possible among other potential factors.

Knowing when the stockpiles will run out would give you the ability to profit immensely. Nobody said high level market PVP was easy, so you get to do your own homework.

As has been stated plenty of times before npc alt. There are still massive stores pre-drone poop nerf that are being liquidated. We can't call it overmining just yet unless you want to go get numbers from CCP Diagoras.

I wish we could get numbers of the burn thru on drone poop... saying there are still massive stores left is a WAG ( Wild Arss Guess.
CCP Diagoras no long tweets you wont get numbers from him.

That's the second or third post by someone ducking the question. Where do you build your drakes? I don't know what the standard load out is for alphafleet but I'm assuming it's something like:

That's the second or third post by someone ducking the question. Where do you build your drakes? I don't know what the standard load out is for alphafleet but I'm assuming it's something like:

Drake
Lot's of T2 mods with possibly some Meta 3/4 mods thrown in where needed

That puts the value at somewhere around $90mil in value with roughly half that coming from the hull itself.

My SS says BCs are 15,000 m3 so you can fit 18ish of them in a jump freighter. Everything you've been posting online seems to indicate that you're losing 10-20 per night on a good night but with a couple near full / near-full welps in there that cost you upwards of 200+ (note: this is all guesswork, btw based on the various battlereports on themittani.com).

So you're talking about 2 jump freighter trips per night (one for 18 drakes, one for the mods) and that's just to replace the losses incurred against NC.

My supposition is that all (or nearly all) of those drakes are manufactured in goon space. That's half the value of the production. It's also one of the reasons that you have a logistical edge of NC. who probably IS buying their Zealots in Jita (certainly their welps have drastically affected the Jita prices... so either they were buying them there or they were the major supplier and cut that off as they incurred losses... given how T2 manufacturing works out of a POS, I'm assuming the former).

And that assumes that NOTHING else gets done in null-sec. Given that there was a whole post on themittani about POS etiquette and when/how you set one up and who you have to talk to, I can only assume that there's SOME amount of industry going on in your null-sec (my guess is ammo, drakes, commonly used mods perhaps even). A single person dedicating an alt to ammo can produce 50,000 T2 cruise missiles or about 100,000 T2 heavy missiles per day. I don't know what percentage that is of a fleet fight but it has to be appreciable and given your 1000s of members, it would seem silly if you weren't producing that ammo yourself.

If I'm wrong, please correct me... But that's the impression I've been getting.

Note: I saw no corresponding Drake price spike after your big fleet welps early in the campaign. Granted, Drake's are traded in vastly higher quantities than Zealots so the purchase of 300 Drakes might not have made a huge difference (though, as stated before, it would have required a MASSIVE number of jump freighter trips).

Lastly, it's a brilliant battle plan, btw, to fight over tech with a T1 fleet against people using T2 ships... You're taking their tech moons AND making them buy materials from you to keep fighting. If that was intentional, well done!

In other news, Noxium prices spiked above Zydrine this evening, and Zydrine prices continue to fall.

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

What CCP "intended" by their various game mechanics was to promote emergent gameplay, and that's exactly what we're seeing. Yes, grav sites suck right now, but that may not always be the case. Look at Scordite -- I can remember when miners disdained Scordite and wouldn't touch the rocks, but now that Pyerite is so high Scord is the new darling of the mining profession. It's just the ebb and flow of the game.

Working as intended.

Its purpose is to be a fast hull capable of mining in hostile space (even if the current value of high-sec ores defeats this quite a bit, but that's another problem).

This has got to be the first time in my EVE career (5+ years) that I've made more ISK mining .9 systems with Plagioclase, Pyroxeres and Scordite than I have lowsec systems with Hemorphite and Jaspet. Yet I still hear people blaming the problem on existing stockpiles of drone poop rather than overmining of high-ends by all the nullbears. How long are those mythical stockpiles going to last, I wonder? I hope for a long time, because I'm making phat lootz in high sec right now.

What I've noticed is that it just seems like null or high are the only areas worth mining. people are bitching about the EHP on the new barges but the problem is that there's just no incentive to take a solo procurer or mining fleet down to low-sec. not when i can find 100K+ veld rocks in 0.5 systems and fit a tank to my retty that can survive any solo dessie gank.

the difference between 0.5 and 0.4 is almost a different career, going from almost passive AFK mining to highly active scanning and aligning constantly. it's just not worth the risk.

if there was some massively profitable ore in low-sec, still close to high sec markets then that would really change the game for the better I feel. Miners would take more risks and pirates would have more targets and no CONCORD to deal with. And it's low-sec so there's no bickering about the legitimacy of attacking indy ships.

The only way foster this to happen soon is to make many items require more low/null sec minerals to remove the stockpile fast. The who know how the economy would be once it's all drained and only what's mined gets on the market. Price would go up or those items would get less used. I guess they could bump lets say everything T2 while letting T1 as it is now. Most high sec stuff only require T1 anyway.