you know i would not mind the meidum remote reps getting an increase in rep amount per lev to help out logi curisers II... but IMO the range of Large reps is whats making them OP...

but having large reps on a bs sized ship would be OK for me because of the many disadvantages of bs sized ships... large sig radius... slow... bad agility... terribad locking time... and so on...

On that same note.. Nidhogguring the minmatar logistics would be unfortunate.

Your idea would ultimately just remove long range logistics from the game. The fallout would be that kiting in a logistics ship would become impossible and so would long range RR. Furthermore, battleship sized logis would never be used for a tremendous number of reasons. So really, the game would just be worse off for no good reason.

-Liang

t1 logistics frigates are useless...can we please not get a slap in the face...if you gonna make logi frigates they at least need to be t2...t1 is just worthless crap

Sounds solid.

well no 1 ccp already said they want cruisers to be faster and more agile... so they will end up being nano any ways...

as for the medium vrs large... well 20 km is not so bad... 52 km range is more then enough to kite with... and hey they could always add a rig that could increase the range of RR right?

the only thing i would do i get rid of the drone rep bonus and replace with a rr efficiency bonus... lets say 7.5% per lev... that would take that 192 per medium rep and turn it into 264 to which i would be happy with...

so in practice you are loosing 100 rep per cycle and 20 km... which imo would bring them in line with the fact they are CRUISERS!

also back in the day putting rr on a bs was standard before they boosted the hell out of logi ships... so its not unheard off... plus IMO the bs sized ones would have 7ish high slots so there potential rep amount would make them worth using...

So, the thing about it is that 20km of RR range is a really big deal, especially given the fact that they're cruisers. The simple fact of the matter is that fights involving kiting can be really spread out (100s of km) and a Logi is expected to be everywhere... all the time. Furthermore, logistics don't need a RR amount nerf - as it stands a 3 RR Scimitar is not going to keep up a BC against another BC.

And ultimately, the problem you're concerned about (RR BS disappearance) has absolutely nothing to do with logistics ships. They weren't even boosted around that time. What you're seeing is the effect of BOMBS and SUPERCARRIERS. Bringing RR BS is asking to lose your entire fleet to 4 bombers.

-Liang

what happened with the navitas being a drone boat? :(

The Tristan became a drone boat instead.

t1 logistics frigates are useless...can we please not get a slap in the face...if you gonna make logi frigates they at least need to be t2...t1 is just worthless crap

Have you considered the thought that not everything in this game is designed for (bitter) nullsec vets?

Right now, just with the cruisers, one tech 2 logistic cruiser can outrepair anywhere from 5-10 battleships worth of damage.

*in before the faggots spam stupid arguments to counter this.

In addition to what Liang said I think range is even MORE important for frig gangs than for the current logis. The current logi ships are faster and more agile than most of the ships they will be repping. They have great range (71km for my badly skilled scimi) and plus they have the speed to burn towards anyone out of range, enabling them to effectively rep most anyone on grid.

In comparison, with the ~28ish max range for frigs you are setting them up for failure. Logi frigs will obviously only be mainly used for frigate gangs, and combined with the speed and tank (or lack thereof) of frigates, having a larger range seems MORE important to these new frigates than to their Cruiser counterparts. In addition, most frigates speed tank, meaning more spread out fleets of frigates and often it seems they may end up being faster than the logi ships.

Does this not sound like it would be a problem?

If we find that the range isn't enough it is open to possible changes after we roll out the testing. But I don't really want them to be able to sit so far away that catching them becomes extremely difficult.

Putting them right on the edge of longpoint and heavy neut range was intentional.

indeed i just had an argument with liang who forgot about wh space and high sec as a reason not to bring RR in line...

No, you had an argument where you presented terrible reasoning for a terrible nerf. I proceded to destroy your reasoning and now you're just making **** up. And in case it has escaped your attention, I've spent 2.5 of the last 3 years living in wormholes. I might just know something about it.

-Liang

In order for this to be true, you would need a Guardian with 6 LRAR IIs repping someone with a large HP buffer and 96% for their LOWEST resist. What I tend to see is that a 4-5 rep Scim/Basi is going to keep a Battlecruiser up against exactly one battleship if and only if you have an off grid Tengu boosting.

Otherwise that BC is going to die.



It's not stupid to point out that you're just making **** up.

-Liang

Since that dev blog was released the plans for frigates have changed. The Tristan is now planned as a drone boat and the Inquisitor as a logi frigate instead of missiles.
Both of those races have no other tech one missile bonused ships, so the decision was made that a logistics frigate would serve them better.

So you are saying we won't get to see a Tech 1 Khanid Kingdom ship for Amarr?

right so thats why you chose to use supercarriers as an example... how good are they in wh space again? or bombs in high sec...

its not a terrible idea... its a great one... one that you PERSONALLY dont agree with... and using t3 bc is kinda cold as they have terribad HP and die easy...
and to this i would suggest how about we just agree to not agree because neither of us is going to convince the other that thier ideas are wrong... but hopefully we have presented reasonable arguments that ccp then can use in internal convos to better enhance the game...

******** arguement number 1... check.

You can just look to the alliance tournament as proof of reality versus theory. You only need 3-4 large repairer and gang bonuses to do massive **** tons of reps. First of all, not everyone is a maxed out implanted dps pilot. Secondly, most BS don't go above about 900 dps in optimal close range practically and fights under those conditions rarely if ever happen. Third if you look at most fleet comps in game these days, they all center around resistance based t2/t3 fleets, or resistance bonused t1 fleets (drake, rokh, abaddon), and range above 50km... again, factoring into the reasonable damage calcs for BS pilots.... 900 dps isn't going to happen at that range.

When you start adding in the counter BS fleets, which are almost always low sig, AB fleets of some sort, their dps falls further off a cliff in most scenarios. Again requiring yet more ways to counter the logistics problem alone rather than having more reasonable counters.

So my statement is true beyond your apparently clumsy eft faggotry math.

So it's looking like FW will become even worse after the winter expansion. Griffins and logistics everywhere, no fun allowed.