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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1325
   |
Posted - 2012.09.13 18:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
And we're back with another set of rebalanced T1 cruisers. These are the Disruption cruisers, inexpensive ewar platforms.
We're revamping the t1 ewar cruisers with similar goals to the t1 ewar frigates. We want to focus two of them for pure ewar with range bonuses (Blackbird and Celestis) and build two of them into more hybridish ewar brawlers that fit very well into small gangs (Arbitrator and Bellicose).
Arbitrator:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M, 5 L (+1), 2 turrets, 1 launcher
Fittings: 575 PWG, 325 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(+84) / 1500(+132) / 1600(+232)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+313) / 490s(+108.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+41) / 0.56(-0.05) / 11200000 / 5.9s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 285(+3) / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+3)
Signature radius: 130
Cargo capacity: 345
Blackbird:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 3 L (+1), 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 525 PWG, 425 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(-6) / 1200(+145) / 1400(+267)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 190(+9) / 0.48(+0.025) / 13190000 / 5.9s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km(+10) / 230 / 8
Sensor strength: 15 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 150
Cargo capacity: 305
Celestis:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+2), 3 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 375 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1300(+11) / 1700(+411)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1300(+175) / 463s(+63s) / 2.8 (-0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+29) / 0.505(-0.06) / 12070000 / 5.7s (+0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+10) / 290(+2) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 20 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 320
Bellicose:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
5% bonus to Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 360 CPU (+110)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+150) / 1200(-11) / 1500(+289)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+262.5) / 427.5s(+92.5s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+31) / 0.51 / 11550000 / 5.5s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42.5km / 300(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 14 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 120 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 315
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
207
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
These actually look pretty good. I feel the Arbitrator definitely has a bit of a combat edge over the others though, simply because it deals its damage with drones, thus freeing up the highslots for utility like nuets. As the others lack that, they don't have quite the utility strength that the Arbitrator does. Perhaps look at changing that or building that utility strength back into the others so its still balanced? |
AlexHalstead
Elite Amarr Navy Academy
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bellicose's skill bonuses certainly give a strong feeling of synergy with each other hah.
I see what you did with the Celestis's skill bonuses. It give similar feeling as the Blackbird's bonuses.
Edited: Okay after giving some serious thoughts; Why is the Bellicose the only disruption cruiser to have a bonus that's purely weapon related? Artbitrator's drone bonus also benefit the EW/Disruption Drones (HP bonus), not just damage and mining yield for other drones. |
Heribeck Weathers
The Executioners
Capital Punishment.
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I feel the BB is about the same (not that i expected diferant) but the drone bay and another low may make it a better armor tanker LOL
*gose and buys a bunch of Bells becuase they look like they will be hella fun to try*
And the arbitrator looks about the same but definatly more solid so over all better surviveability in a fight.
Cels... fix damps |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
207
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think TPs will need to get buffed before the Bellicose will really shine. If TPs outright increased applied damage, it would put it in line with the Arbitrator, which can use its utility highs to fit neuts and turn off an opponents tank. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc
Goonswarm Federation
186
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
I love the new blackbird capacitor. This will be very nice for newbees flying them in our fleets.
Also, the others look good to me (way better bonuses than before) |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm distinctly unimpressed with these changes you need to go much further with these especially speed/tank slots the arbitrator should have 4 turrets/launchers mix |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
112
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
The damp bonus on the Celestis is, to put it diplomatically, underwhelming.
Unless my math is wrong, we're talking about going from just under 60% targeting range dampening, to just under 66% with the new bonuses. This is with max skills in EFT and a fully boosted Eos. I'd hardly call a 6% increase the solution to fixing damps as they are now, and unless you all are planning on doing much stronger bonuses for the Arazu/Lachesis, the damper module will continue to be laughed at and ignored for EVE pvp, as much if not moreso than it is now.
I think a bonus of 10% per level would be far better, keeping it from being too OP but not completely gimped as it is now. |
LtCol Laurentius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Looks good and in line with the previosuly stated design goals. Some questions though:
- Why does the Arby retain its mining bonus to drones?
- Whats the reasoning behind giving the celestis the higest sensor strengt of the 4 ships? At 20, its even better than caldari battlecruisers.
- The Blackbird and Celestis are designed for ranged EW-support, so whats the reasoning behind the increased dronebay on the Celestis? |
Alara IonStorm
3131
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think you should push up the Belli's base PG up to 600 as to allow it to fit HAM's, LSE, MWD without a fitting Mod at max skill. |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
112
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
- Whats the reasoning behind giving the celestis the higest sensor strengt of the 4 ships? At 20, its even better than caldari battlecruisers.
Because of Falcon.
Had to do it lol. |
Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
210
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Awesome! |
mkint
885
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lol mining drones
Lol damps
Ewar is broken. A polished turd is still a turd.
Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
101
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Looks good, but does the arbitrator need a mining drone yeald boost still?
Ideas for drone improvement |
Karmu Ivanostrov
4U Services Inc.
Talocan United
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
LtCol Laurentius wrote:- Whats the reasoning behind giving the celestis the higest sensor strengt of the 4 ships? At 20, its even better than caldari battlecruisers.
Maybe it is to fight ECM with Damps..
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1327
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
LtCol Laurentius wrote:Looks good and in line with the previosuly stated design goals. Some questions though:
- Why does the Arby retain its mining bonus to drones?
We didn't see any reason to remove it.
LtCol Laurentius wrote:- Whats the reasoning behind giving the celestis the higest sensor strengt of the 4 ships? At 20, its even better than caldari battlecruisers.
There was a typo in the initial post. Blackbird is 20, Celestis is 18. Got it fixed now, thanks. Both are still high as we like the ewar ships to have generally higher sensor strength than the combat ships.
LtCol Laurentius wrote:- The Blackbird and Celestis are designed for ranged EW-support, so whats the reasoning behind the increased dronebay on the Celestis?
Because we always want to leave the door open to creative uses for the ships, and a bit more bandwidth seemed to work well to give the ship more options.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
|
AlexHalstead
Elite Amarr Navy Academy
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
I still have to ask, isn't there any other bonus that suit the disruption role better than the Launcher ROF for Bell? |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
150
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
How about changing the Celestis defense to be:
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 1400(+111) / 1700(+411)
?
Would make both the "armor" ships have the same shield and the only difference would be armor and hull? I'm suggesting this without knowing your reasons for the other numbers so it might not be valid, but since this is going to be flow as a armor ship it would make sense to mirror the other one. |
Gypsio III
Chemikals
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
342
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
So with the inevitable offgrid mindlinked link T3, a rigged Arbitrator will have TDs that each have -92.25% to optimal or tracking? Wow.
(hope those numbers are right  ) |
Karmu Ivanostrov
4U Services Inc.
Talocan United
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
AlexHalstead wrote:I still have to ask, isn't there any other bonus that suit the disruption role better than the Launcher ROF for Bell?
As stated, Bell and Arbitrator are being tailored for smaller gangs in which their dps contribution is important. Thats why you see 1 dps and 1 EW bonus, while Blackbird and Celestis have 2 EW bonuses and no dps bonus |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
286
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why is the Arbitrator the only one that cannot fill out its highs with offensive weaponry .. surely you can add a gun slot without breaking anything.
eWar boats survive (and kill) on the basis of being able to surprise an enemy, if each and every fit is predictable they'll be relegated to being pure support craft (mostly).
Same goes for every hull really (within reason obviously), it is fine to have roles to make the various hulls unique, but there has to be the option of going outside the box to bend an enemy over or it will be another 8 years of optimized cookie cutters with "off" hulls only seeing action when there are no more cookies in the jar.
Ex: Pilgrim. You expect it to field neuts, yes? Ever met the gun wielding brawler that evolved from a ratting fit .. scary **** that. Or how about the brawler Rook, everyone burns at the ECM .. one of the few hulls in Eve that is both the bait and the hook rolled into one 
PS: I take it you are going to reign the ASB's in, otherwise you might want to look at tweaking the Bellicose's fittings to disallow the most obvious abuses of that module. The Belli is already scary as hell and a missile config like that will be untouchable by a majority of 'equal' options. |
Alara IonStorm
3131
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Suggestion. I think you should do away with the half brawler idea and give both them and the Frigats Combat, and Secondary Ewar Bonuses.
Example.
Blackbird:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
5% bonus to Hybrid Damage
Electronic Warfare skill bonuses:
10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 3 L, 4 turrets
Fittings: 575 PWG, 425 CPU
Arbitrator:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Electronic Warfare skill bonuses:
7.5% to energy neutralizer effectiveness.
Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M, 5 L
Fittings: 750 PWG, 400 CPU
Celestis:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
10% bonus to Hybrid Damage
Electronic Warfare skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range
Fittings: 625 PWG, 375 CPU
Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 5 L, 3 turrets,
Bellicose:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
5% bonus to Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
Electronic Warfare skill bonuses:
10% Web Range
Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 3 L, 4 launchers
Fittings: 600 PWG, 360 CPU
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AlexHalstead
Elite Amarr Navy Academy
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Karmu Ivanostrov wrote:AlexHalstead wrote:I still have to ask, isn't there any other bonus that suit the disruption role better than the Launcher ROF for Bell? As stated, Bell and Arbitrator are being tailored for smaller gangs in which their dps contribution is important. Thats why you see 1 dps and 1 EW bonus, while Blackbird and Celestis have 2 EW bonuses and no dps bonus Yes but I did pointed out in a post that the Arbitrator's "DPS", or 2nd, bonus also benefit OTHER drones like the EWAR drones. Bell's 2nd bonus benefit only specifically a weapon system.
|
Karmu Ivanostrov
4U Services Inc.
Talocan United
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
AlexHalstead wrote:Karmu Ivanostrov wrote:AlexHalstead wrote:I still have to ask, isn't there any other bonus that suit the disruption role better than the Launcher ROF for Bell? As stated, Bell and Arbitrator are being tailored for smaller gangs in which their dps contribution is important. Thats why you see 1 dps and 1 EW bonus, while Blackbird and Celestis have 2 EW bonuses and no dps bonus Yes but I did pointed out in a post that the Arbitrator's "DPS", or 2nd, bonus also benefit OTHER drones like the EWAR drones. Bell's 2nd bonus benefit only specifically a weapon system.
Noted
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
I only see damage there but I have never tested if it affected ewar drones. |
Martin0
The Scope
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
YES thank you!
The Celestis now have a purpose.
Now please, buff damps  |
Aaron Greil
Royal Imperial Navy Reserves
21
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 20:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Not sure how I feel about the bellicose having a full drone bay. Two ewar ships, okay, but three reeks of too much homogenization. Bring the bellicose down, at least one medium drone. The balance team also added tons of drones to frigate hulls, it feels like gallente's specialization is being entirely eclipsed. The vexor, with only 75 bw (which most people only use a flight of mediums anyway) loses its advantage in the cruiser realm. A similar thing is true with the thorax.
Also, the arbitrator looks awesome, but there was talk of adding at least a taste of missile based ships in the tech 1 amarr lineup. I was waiting for it with frigates, but it never came. Adding one or two missile hardpoints to the arbitrator without increasing fitting would be a welcome stepping stone for the curse, damnation, and sacrilege. Also, as it stands, it seems the bellicose can clearly out dps the arbitrator without a huge loss of versatility.
In regards to the other two, I heard rumors that dampening will be buffed, and hearsay that ECM will be nerfed. I think both of these things need to happen in order to bring balance between the blackbird and the celestis.
Also, drones on the blackbird? not a fan. The blackbird is pretty powerful already due to the nature of ECM. Unless there is some nerfbat coming to ECM I think the blackbird is a little much. Specifically the targeting range. Thats absurd. I was expecting a targeting nerf on the blackbird, actually, not a buff.
The speed boost is very welcome. |
I'm Down
Macabre Votum
Against ALL Authorities
67
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 20:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
In exactly what way is a 512 dps Belicose with 0 disrupting effects a disruption cruiser?
It now does around 50 more dps than a 5% per level maller would do based on those proposed changes. When does thinking ever come in to the picture at CCP? |
Hoarr
RPS holdings
43
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 20:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Damps are fine, they do their job.
Fozzie, really liking what I'm seeing so far. That arbitrator's going to be a bastard of a ship, and the bellicose looks like it's going to be a fun little brawler.
Now the fun part starts, BRING ON THE ATTACK SHIPS. |
Karmu Ivanostrov
4U Services Inc.
Talocan United
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 20:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aaron Greil wrote:Also, the arbitrator looks awesome, but there was talk of adding at least a taste of missile based ships in the tech 1 amarr lineup. I was waiting for it with frigates, but it never came. Adding one or two missile hardpoints to the arbitrator without increasing fitting would be a welcome stepping stone for the curse, damnation, and sacrilege. Also, as it stands, it seems the bellicose can clearly out dps the arbitrator without a huge loss of versatility.
The idea of giving Amarr T1 missiles seems to have been scrubed in favor of drones (so you have Caldari and Minnie with missiles and Gallente and Amarr with drones)
I'd advise you to go listen Bringing Solo Back's 20th episode in which CCP Fozzie was a guest. He had a really cool chat with Kil2 and Kovorix about some possible upcoming changes that are in the development pipeline (by the sounds of it, still in pre production tough) |
LtCol Laurentius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 20:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:LtCol Laurentius wrote:Looks good and in line with the previosuly stated design goals. Some questions though:
- Why does the Arby retain its mining bonus to drones? We didn't see any reason to remove it.
Well, after the proposed changes to the Osprey and Schyte, it will be the only T1 cruiser left with a mining bonus. I just thought you guys had decided to use ORE ships as the bonused mining ships all the way. But its not a big deal obvioulsy. |
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