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Sticky:[Winter] Disruption Cruisers

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 102	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:07:00 - [121] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Exactly what about painters disrupts anything? Disruption is a poor word fot this ship line, E-War is better. Target painters are a hostile module that increases the signature radius of a ship. With an increased signature raidus a ship becomes much eaiser to Target/Lock. that makes it a e-war module Ideas for drone improvement
I'm Down Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities 67	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:08:00 - [122] - Quote Alara IonStorm wrote: I'm Down wrote: check your facts, it will do 552 dps maxed out before overload or implants are even considered. Show your work. 352 HAMs 190 Drones 542... excuse me, i was 10 off. You can eft an osprey navy to see the missile damage, and the 4th low would go to a drone damage mod. Still leaves room for an MWD and a LSE in the mids, and the usual other items. and oh yeah, unlike most other ships, it's not tied to damage types....
Alara IonStorm 3134	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:15:00 - [123] - Quote I'm Down wrote: 352 HAMs 190 Drones 542... excuse me, i was 10 off. You can eft an osprey navy to see the missile damage, and the 4th low would go to a drone damage mod. Still leaves room for an MWD and a LSE in the mids, and the usual other items. and oh yeah, unlike most other ships, it's not tied to damage types.... So Rage Missiles and no DCU no real Frigate defenses and you need an ACU to fit everything else on. I am sure there will be tons of people flying that fit. But hey it is better then the right now purely hypothetical Maller and Omen in your head. I am sure they will be fit with only about 15k EHP like your Belli fit.
I'm Down Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities 67	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:16:00 - [124] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: I'm Down wrote: Exactly what about painters disrupts anything? Disruption is a poor word fot this ship line, E-War is better. Target painters are a hostile module that increases the signature radius of a ship. With an increased signature raidus a ship becomes much eaiser to Target/Lock. that makes it a e-war module No, i think disruptor is a prime choice... but even ewar isn't met. Arbitrator... disrupt gun ships offensive abilities range/tracking (a defensive mechanic) Blackbird... disrupts a ships locking abilities (a defensive mechanic) Celestis.... disrups a ships target range or lock time (a defensive mechanic) Belicose... increases a targets incoming damage (an offensive mechanic) notice a disparity there?
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 2146	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:18:00 - [125] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Alara IonStorm wrote: I'm Down wrote: check your facts, it will do 552 dps maxed out before overload or implants are even considered. Show your work. 352 HAMs 190 Drones 542... excuse me, i was 10 off. You can eft an osprey navy to see the missile damage, and the 4th low would go to a drone damage mod. Still leaves room for an MWD and a LSE in the mids, and the usual other items. and oh yeah, unlike most other ships, it's not tied to damage types.... Can we please discuss real fits? That is over on both CPU and grid, and even if it fit would be a **** fit. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Sedoris Every Day Low Prices 1	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:20:00 - [126] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: I'm Down wrote: Exactly what about painters disrupts anything? Disruption is a poor word fot this ship line, E-War is better. Target painters are a hostile module that increases the signature radius of a ship. With an increased signature raidus a ship becomes much eaiser to Target/Lock. that makes it a e-war module No, i think disruptor is a prime choice... but even ewar isn't met. Arbitrator... disrupt gun ships offensive abilities range/tracking (a defensive mechanic) Blackbird... disrupts a ships locking abilities (a defensive mechanic) Celestis.... disrups a ships target range or lock time (a defensive mechanic) Belicose... increases a targets incoming damage (an offensive mechanic) notice a disparity there? Well, you know, sometimes the best defense is a good offense :p
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service 51	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:20:00 - [127] - Quote I'm Down wrote: check your facts, it will do 552 dps maxed out before overload or implants are even considered. Both amarr cruisers was supposed to say both amarr dps cruisers. your second comment is just batshit ******. Ahh... I overlooked the "pure** dps" part. Yeah you are right. I was including stuff like mediocre tank. But 550dps with a glass jaw is still fine by me. Even with a Lg ASB it ain't exactly tough. It'll have some funny niche uses, but in general combat a fit like that is toast. And sorry you don't appreciate the uses of a Painter. Your loss.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 102	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:23:00 - [128] - Quote The description of the target painter is "A targeting subsystem that projects an electronic 'tag' on the target thus making it eaiser to Target and Hit. it would seem the increased damage for missiles is a beneficial side effect of an increased sig raidus, not necessaraly the sole purpose. Ideas for drone improvement
I'm Down Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities 67	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:23:00 - [129] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Can we please discuss real fits? That is over on both CPU and grid, and even if it fit would be a **** fit. -Liang Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Drone damage Amplifier I Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction EM Ward Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron [empty med slot] Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I with 22 cpu left for the last mid slot.... easily fit another painter or several other options. If you really want to toss out 40 dps, you can lose the drone damage amp and still be over 500 dps, and get your precious DCU. Learn how to fit.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 2146	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:24:00 - [130] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: Can we please discuss real fits? That is over on both CPU and grid, and even if it fit would be a ** fit. -Liang Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Drone damage Amplifier I Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction EM Ward Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron [empty med slot] Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I with 22 cpu left for the last mid slot.... easily fit another painter or several other options. If you really want to toss our 40 dps, you can lose the drone damage amp and still be over 500 dps, and get your precious DCU. Learn how to fit. Hammerhead II x1 Jesus can you learn how to fit a ***** ship? Do you even PVP? -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Alara IonStorm 3134	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:27:00 - [131] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Jesus can you learn how to fit a ******* ship? Do you even PVP? -Liang It is this. [empty med slot] That makes it art.
I'm Down Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities 67	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:29:00 - [132] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Jesus can you learn how to fit a ***** ship? Do you even PVP? -Liang I'm sorry, lets see a real fit pro? I know that this fit gets around 20-30,000 ehp for small fleet combat and who honestly gives a about sig ratio on a throw away dps ship. You will only find 3 other cruiser under current game mechanics that can even compete dps wise to this "disruption" cruiser. Alara IonStorm wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: Jesus can you learn how to fit a *** ship? Do you even PVP? -Liang It is this. [empty med slot] That makes it art. hey dip , did you see the part where i left it open intentionally and told you teh remaining CPU so that you could fit in a variety of options? Or are you one of those ***** retards who needs me to spell this out 100% for you?
Alara IonStorm 3136	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:37:00 - [133] - Quote I'm Down wrote: hey dip **, did you see the part where i left it open intentionally and told you teh remaining CPU so that you could fit in a variety of options? Or are you one of those ***** retards who needs me to spell this out 100% for you? My eyes were drawn away by the oh so terrible fit. It was like trying to notice a stop sign next to a gory train wreck.
Galphii Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE 63	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:39:00 - [134] - Quote Nice tweaks there; love the look of the Bellicose, seems very exciting to combine missiles, TP and drones (and should totally get a new model soon like the stabber!)
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 2146	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:40:00 - [135] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: Jesus can you learn how to fit a ***** ship? Do you even PVP? -Liang I'm sorry, lets see a real fit pro? I know that this fit gets around 20-30,000 ehp for small fleet combat and who honestly gives a ** about sig ratio on a throw away dps ship. You will only find 3 other cruiser under current game mechanics that can even compete dps wise to this "disruption" cruiser. Nah, you can get the same performance out of an Omen right now. And it's a bad cruiser. -Liang Ed: Just wait until they boost the fittings on it. I'm hoping hoping hoping hoping they give it +30% speed and an optimal bonus. I might literally cry tears of joy. :) Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 102	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:41:00 - [136] - Quote I'm Down wrote: I'm sorry, lets see a real fit pro? I know that this fit gets around 20-30,000 ehp for small fleet combat and who honestly gives a **** about sig ratio on a throw away dps ship. You will only find 3 other cruiser under current game mechanics that can even compete dps wise to this "disruption" cruiser. So with the fit you posted above you actually get about 11427ehp a little bit off from 20-30k ehp Ideas for drone improvement
MotherMoon Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 1123	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:43:00 - [137] - Quote Dersen Lowery wrote: MotherMoon wrote: wat? have you lost it? maybe i don't understand , are you gving a non ore ship a random never to be used drone bonus to mining? The whole beauty of drone boats is that they can do a little bit of everything. There are mining drones, so why shouldn't drone boats get bonuses to use them? ORE barges tend to pack combat drones for self-defense. If CCP really wanted to go nuts, they'd throw in a generous bonus to mining drone velocity per level. For those with Gallente or Amarr Cruiser 5 there might even be a use for Harvesters, at long last. OOOOOOO "10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield " my bad I thought it was only a mining bonus, nvm http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service 51	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:43:00 - [138] - Quote I'm Down wrote: I know that this fit gets around 20-30,000 ehp for small fleet combat... Because including leadership/link bonuses in your base stats is always a good idea....? Let's be honest, your fit has 19K ehp (with Liang's DCU). It is made of glass. And overlooking the lack of a point, it does have some niche uses. But for general use it is horribly terribad.
I'm Down Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities 68	Posted - 2012.09.14 02:51:00 - [139] - Quote Vladimir Norkoff wrote: I'm Down wrote: I know that this fit gets around 20-30,000 ehp for small fleet combat... Because including leadership/link bonuses in your base stats is always a good idea....? Let's be honest, your fit has 19K ehp (with Liang's DCU). It is made of glass. And overlooking the lack of a point, it does have some niche uses. But for general use it is horribly terribad. B/C when it explicitly states "small gang combat" you naturally move away from bonuses huh? I really wish you guys would quit trying to judge ships by their unbonused, un buffed neutered to hell fits and realize that your terribad style of gameplay is not how this game get's balanced properly.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 102	Posted - 2012.09.14 03:01:00 - [140] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Vladimir Norkoff wrote: I'm Down wrote: I know that this fit gets around 20-30,000 ehp for small fleet combat... Because including leadership/link bonuses in your base stats is always a good idea....? Let's be honest, your fit has 19K ehp (with Liang's DCU). It is made of glass. And overlooking the lack of a point, it does have some niche uses. But for general use it is horribly terribad. B/C when it explicitly states "small gang combat" you naturally move away from bonuses huh? I really wish you guys would quit trying to judge ships by their unbonused, un buffed neutered to hell fits and realize that your terribad style of gameplay is not how this game get's balanced properly. Please what is a small gang then? When does it change to a mid sized gang? Ideas for drone improvement
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 2146	Posted - 2012.09.14 03:03:00 - [141] - Quote I'm Down wrote: B/C when it explicitly states "small gang combat" you naturally move away from bonuses huh? I really wish you guys would quit trying to judge ships by their unbonused, un buffed neutered to hell fits and realize that your terribad style of gameplay is not how this game get's balanced properly. The Omen (today) gets your linked performance without Links. Should tell you something about your fit. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service 52	Posted - 2012.09.14 03:19:00 - [142] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Vladimir Norkoff wrote: I'm Down wrote: I know that this fit gets around 20-30,000 ehp for small fleet combat... Because including leadership/link bonuses in your base stats is always a good idea....? Let's be honest, your fit has 19K ehp (with Liang's DCU). It is made of glass. And overlooking the lack of a point, it does have some niche uses. But for general use it is horribly terribad. B/C when it explicitly states "small gang combat" you naturally move away from bonuses huh? I really wish you guys would quit trying to judge ships by their unbonused, un buffed neutered to hell fits and realize that your terribad style of gameplay is not how this game get's balanced properly. When every other post of yours insists that it is without overload or other bonuses, yes we do tend to move away from bonuses. I understand that you are frustrated by the fact that your fit is being dissected as the extreme niche fit that it is. But lashing out at people like a child throwing a tantrum is not the way to deal with the situation. Your fit is just not good for general use, and thus does not unbalance the game. Getting angry is not going to change that fact.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 102	Posted - 2012.09.14 03:24:00 - [143] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: I'm Down wrote: Vladimir Norkoff wrote: I'm Down wrote: I know that this fit gets around 20-30,000 ehp for small fleet combat... Because including leadership/link bonuses in your base stats is always a good idea....? Let's be honest, your fit has 19K ehp (with Liang's DCU). It is made of glass. And overlooking the lack of a point, it does have some niche uses. But for general use it is horribly terribad. B/C when it explicitly states "small gang combat" you naturally move away from bonuses huh? I really wish you guys would quit trying to judge ships by their unbonused, un buffed neutered to hell fits and realize that your terribad style of gameplay is not how this game get's balanced properly. Please what is a small gang then? Edit: Google said a small gang is <= 10 pilots. Small gang comp (taken from internet could be wrong) 1 Dictor 2 E-war 1 interceptor 5 DPS ships 1 Command ship Your fit would require, seeing as it has no local booster, 2 logistic ships, due to shield logistic problems keeping cap stable. So assuming the rest are completely necessary you would have to lose at least 1 dips ship and then 1 other thing. e-war maybe? You would get no dps out of the command ship because it is an off grid t3 because that's what "everyone" uses for boosting. Like I said I got the general premises from Google. But if this is accurate, then by no means is the bellicose going to be OP Ideas for drone improvement
Dennis Gregs Dawn of Fire 65	Posted - 2012.09.14 03:30:00 - [144] - Quote I'm Down wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: Can we please discuss real fits? That is over on both CPU and grid, and even if it fit would be a **** fit. -Liang Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Drone damage Amplifier I Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction EM Ward Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron [empty med slot] Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I with 22 cpu left for the last mid slot.... easily fit another painter or several other options. If you really want to toss out 40 dps, you can lose the drone damage amp and still be over 500 dps, and get your precious DCU. Learn how to fit. The irony, it burns. Now, on a sidenote, I think the Celestis is still going to be a little weak. Gallente being the drone race and all, and Celestis being basically the "go to" e-war cruiser for Gellente in the next expansion, I'd like to see a drone bonus somewhere in there, be it regular or e-war drone bonus in specific... but I'm not complaining for the improvements anyhow.
Ashera Yune Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 43	Posted - 2012.09.14 03:39:00 - [145] - Quote Another thing to consider is buffing the rigs for sensor dampening strength. The Tech 1 rsd rig is a mere 5% increase. The tech 2 is a 7.5% increase. The rigs were nerfed when damps were nerfed. "Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth." -áKahlil Gibran
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 550	Posted - 2012.09.14 04:01:00 - [146] - Quote Ashera Yune wrote: Another thing to consider is buffing the rigs for sensor dampening strength. The Tech 1 rsd rig is a mere 5% increase. The tech 2 is a 7.5% increase. The rigs were nerfed when damps were nerfed. i really think the answer has to be in ship bonus... we dont want a rsd on every ship like before the nerf... 10% per level and 20% to optimal range would make this a sick ship! Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Takeshi Yamato Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 426	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:08:00 - [147] - Quote Since cruiser base speeds are going to be improved across the board, the Arbitrator will end up being on the slow side of the spectrum. That is in contradiction with the stated goal of making it a ship for small gangs. Ships for small gangs need to be fast. The inability to shield tank effectively while providing EWAR is also problematic.
Altaen Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari 13	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:23:00 - [148] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: I'd rather have a Blackbird that concentrates all its jammers on one ship be closer in power to the Celestis than the other way around, You. I like you.
Altaen Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari 13	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:35:00 - [149] - Quote Dennis Gregs wrote: Now, on a sidenote, I think the Celestis is still going to be a little weak. Gallente being the drone race and all, and Celestis being basically the "go to" e-war cruiser for Gellente in the next expansion, I was hoping to see a drone bonus somewhere in there. Hopefully it will happen on another cruiser besides the Vexor, which will pretty much remain similar from what I've read, if only to give Gallente some more identity. Maybe even a specific bonus to ewar drones.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 767	Posted - 2012.09.14 07:11:00 - [150] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Tippia wrote: You really need to either adjust damps to have a bit more inherent usefulness or significantly increase that bonus (if you want to avoid the old situation of GÇ£damps on everythingGÇ¥). I haven't done the all the maths for where it needs to be but really, what you should be aiming at is that with a reasonable fit and without any special bonuses (command ships etc.), and after stacking penalties, a Celestis that concentrates all of its disruption on a single ships should do pretty much the same thing as the equivalent Blackbird would do the the same shipGÇª which would pretty much entail damping any normal ship down to, oh, 2km lock range or so. GÇªso keep bumping those bonuses up, because you're not there yet. I'd rather have a Blackbird that concentrates all its jammers on one ship be closer in power to the Celestis than the other way around, however yeah there is more that needs to be done with damps. Wow, with these new 7.5% bonuses we're getting back to pretty much old Arazy dampening you by -75% by each RSD. Apply 3 and nobody can lock anything even at 10 km. Heck, even 2 will do it for most cases. Do you, Fozzie, really believe it's good for the game to have an option of rendering any given ship (bar supercaps, for sure - they are what real man fly and thus can not be touched) totally useless by such overwhelming EW modules? Isn't this precisely the reason why ECM causes so much hate? Being able to establish lock is god damn CRUCIAL for basically anything you might want to perform. If you have no intentions of introducing a hard limit to what ships can be damped to (say, they always retain 30% of their base lock range), then you're pretty much failing at not making the game even harder for soloers - the concern you named recently. 14

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