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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
63
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Posted - 2012.09.17 19:04:00 -
[301] - Quote
Out of interest, why does the arbitrator do so much better than the others when it comes to combat? In terms of slots and drones;
Arbitrator - 4 weapon slots, 5x50% bonused medium drones (7.5 equivalent drones) Bellicose - 4 weapon slots, 4 medium drones Blackbird - 4 weapon slots, 1 medium drone Celestis - 3 weapon slots, 5 medium drones
I can see the tp bonus on the bellicose evening this out with the arbitrator; the blackbird will benefit more from the weapon slots than it would drones given that it's comfort zone is staying at range, but it looks a little pale dps-wise - still it has arguably the strongest ewar in it's ecm as a balancing act for the ship; the celestis looks the clear loser here - it's natural instincts will be to hold range making the drones purely defensive and leaving it with a positively anaemic prognosis compared to the others.
Top this off with under-performing damps and this ship still looks destined for the unused pile of scrap in my station hangar.
Please note I'm using medium drones as an example of the damage achievable by these ships and realise that light drones of some sort or other may also be used. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2165
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:07:00 -
[302] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:Out of interest, why does the arbitrator do so much better than the others when it comes to combat? In terms of slots and drones;
Arbitrator - 4 weapon slots, 5x50% bonused medium drones (7.5 equivalent drones) Bellicose - 4 weapon slots, 4 medium drones Blackbird - 4 weapon slots, 1 medium drone Celestis - 3 weapon slots, 5 medium drones
I can see the tp bonus on the bellicose evening this out with the arbitrator; the blackbird will benefit more from the weapon slots than it would drones given that it's comfort zone is staying at range, but it looks a little pale dps-wise - still it has arguably the strongest ewar in it's ecm as a balancing act for the ship; the celestis looks the clear loser here - it's natural instincts will be to hold range making the drones purely defensive and leaving it with a positively anaemic prognosis compared to the others.
Top this off with under-performing damps and this ship still looks destined for the unused pile of scrap in my station hangar.
Please note I'm using medium drones as an example of the damage achievable by these ships and realise that light drones of some sort or other may also be used.
Why are you talking about effective drones without talking about effective slots?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:10:00 -
[303] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Nikuno wrote:Out of interest, why does the arbitrator do so much better than the others when it comes to combat? In terms of slots and drones;
Arbitrator - 4 weapon slots, 5x50% bonused medium drones (7.5 equivalent drones) Bellicose - 4 weapon slots, 4 medium drones Blackbird - 4 weapon slots, 1 medium drone Celestis - 3 weapon slots, 5 medium drones
I can see the tp bonus on the bellicose evening this out with the arbitrator; the blackbird will benefit more from the weapon slots than it would drones given that it's comfort zone is staying at range, but it looks a little pale dps-wise - still it has arguably the strongest ewar in it's ecm as a balancing act for the ship; the celestis looks the clear loser here - it's natural instincts will be to hold range making the drones purely defensive and leaving it with a positively anaemic prognosis compared to the others.
Top this off with under-performing damps and this ship still looks destined for the unused pile of scrap in my station hangar.
Please note I'm using medium drones as an example of the damage achievable by these ships and realise that light drones of some sort or other may also be used. Why are you talking about effective drones without talking about effective slots? -Liang
I never mentioned effective drones- i mentioned equivalent. Without any weapon slot bonuses the equivalency of the slots remains as stated. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2165
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:18:00 -
[304] - Quote
Nikuno wrote: I never mentioned effective drones- i mentioned equivalent. Without any weapon slot bonuses the equivalency of the slots remains as stated.
The Bellicose and the Arbitrator are both "combat" centric ships, similar to combat recons. They both get weapon bonuses (you only display the bonuses for one of them in your chart). The Celestis and Blackbird are both "disruption" centric ships and aren't meant to be solo PVP powerhouses. This was mentioned in the OP.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:28:00 -
[305] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Nikuno wrote: I never mentioned effective drones- i mentioned equivalent. Without any weapon slot bonuses the equivalency of the slots remains as stated.
The Bellicose and the Arbitrator are both "combat" centric ships, similar to combat recons. They both get weapon bonuses (you only display the bonuses for one of them in your chart). The Celestis and Blackbird are both "disruption" centric ships and aren't meant to be solo PVP powerhouses. This was mentioned in the OP. -Liang
I don't recall stating anything about solo combat, just their respective damage potential which, as you say, fits with an initial design decision. I clearly make reference to the the bellicose and arbitrator standing on a roughly even footing for this. I then also stated that the blackbird gains it's balance for the intended role from the strength of it's ewar whilst drawing attention again to the relative ineffectiveness of damps. I have adjusted the bellicose in the original post to reflect the 25% weapon bonus which I had overlooked.
I maintain that the celestis is clearly the poorest of this particular bunch of ships both from it's underwhelming damage potential and from the shoddy state of damps. I've seen nothing yet to convince me otherwise. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2165
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:33:00 -
[306] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Nikuno wrote: I never mentioned effective drones- i mentioned equivalent. Without any weapon slot bonuses the equivalency of the slots remains as stated.
The Bellicose and the Arbitrator are both "combat" centric ships, similar to combat recons. They both get weapon bonuses (you only display the bonuses for one of them in your chart). The Celestis and Blackbird are both "disruption" centric ships and aren't meant to be solo PVP powerhouses. This was mentioned in the OP. -Liang I don't recall stating anything about solo combat, just their respective damage potential which, as you say, fits with an initial design decision. I clearly make reference to the the bellicose and arbitrator standing on a roughly even footing for this. I then also stated that the blackbird gains it's balance for the intended role from the strength of it's ewar whilst drawing attention again to the relative ineffectiveness of damps. I have adjusted the bellicose in the original post to reflect the 25% weapon bonus which I had overlooked. I maintain that the celestis is clearly the poorest of this particular bunch of ships both from it's underwhelming damage potential and from the shoddy state of damps. I've seen nothing yet to convince me otherwise.
So the Bellicose has a 25% ROF bonus, which is roughly equivalent to a 33% damage bonus. Furthermore, it gets a double damage bonus by virtue of the painter bonus, which acts something like a tracking bonus (sortof).
With regards to the Celestis specifically: I still remember the Old School damps, and I haven't really flown a damp ship since they nerfed the hell out of them. I'm willing to do some play testing at 7.5% and raise hell if they aren't good enough. I somehow suspect they'll be alright but not fantastic. Furthermore, you haven't noticed that they're changing ECM's mechanic (sometime). CCP Fozzie said that he'd rather see the Blackbird's ewar effectiveness become more like the Celestis than the other way around.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
110
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:39:00 -
[307] - Quote
Someone else has said this and I stand by it also EWAR should be your number of Ewar Points vs Ships sensor streingth * max locked targets. So if you can do 50 points of EWAR and the ship you are jamming has a 10 sensor * 6 max target the jammed ship can only target one ship. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2165
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:42:00 -
[308] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Someone else has said this and I stand by it also EWAR should be your number of Ewar Points vs Ships sensor streingth * max locked targets. So if you can do 50 points of EWAR and the ship you are jamming has a 10 sensor * 6 max target the jammed ship can only target one ship.
How does this scale for multiple people or drones jamming the same target? How does this work with damps or TDs? Don't get me wrong: I'd be massively happy for sensor strength to represent some kind of ewar resistance (go go grail set), but... ?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:42:00 -
[309] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Nikuno wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Nikuno wrote: I never mentioned effective drones- i mentioned equivalent. Without any weapon slot bonuses the equivalency of the slots remains as stated.
The Bellicose and the Arbitrator are both "combat" centric ships, similar to combat recons. They both get weapon bonuses (you only display the bonuses for one of them in your chart). The Celestis and Blackbird are both "disruption" centric ships and aren't meant to be solo PVP powerhouses. This was mentioned in the OP. -Liang I don't recall stating anything about solo combat, just their respective damage potential which, as you say, fits with an initial design decision. I clearly make reference to the the bellicose and arbitrator standing on a roughly even footing for this. I then also stated that the blackbird gains it's balance for the intended role from the strength of it's ewar whilst drawing attention again to the relative ineffectiveness of damps. I have adjusted the bellicose in the original post to reflect the 25% weapon bonus which I had overlooked. I maintain that the celestis is clearly the poorest of this particular bunch of ships both from it's underwhelming damage potential and from the shoddy state of damps. I've seen nothing yet to convince me otherwise. So the Bellicose has a 25% ROF bonus, which is roughly equivalent to a 33% damage bonus. Furthermore, it gets a double damage bonus by virtue of the painter bonus, which acts something like a tracking bonus (sortof). With regards to the Celestis specifically: I still remember the Old School damps, and I haven't really flown a damp ship since they nerfed the hell out of them. I'm willing to do some play testing at 7.5% and raise hell if they aren't good enough. I somehow suspect they'll be alright but not fantastic. Furthermore, you haven't noticed that they're changing ECM's mechanic (sometime). CCP Fozzie said that he'd rather see the Blackbird's ewar effectiveness become more like the Celestis than the other way around. -Liang
Sadly this doesn't fill me with confidence. I used the celestis a lot before the damp nerf and have revisited damps at intervals since then with both the lachesis and arazu, always to walk away from their flimsy performance. If ecm was to be dragged down to that level it would simply throw 2 of these ships onto my scrapheap rather than the 1, which cannot be considered an improvement or balancing act in any way. I do rest in the anti-ecm camp, but I would rather see it modified to break locks rather than jamming them as a way of achieving balance with possible tweaks as suggested in the many ecm threads over the years. Nerfing ecm to the point of becoming as ineffectual as damps does not represent balance. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2165
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:45:00 -
[310] - Quote
Nikuno wrote: Sadly this doesn't fill me with confidence. I used the celestis a lot before the damp nerf and have revisited damps at intervals since then with both the lachesis and arazu, always to walk away from their flimsy performance. If ecm was to be dragged down to that level it would simply throw 2 of these ships onto my scrapheap rather than the 1, which cannot be considered an improvement or balancing act in any way. I do rest in the anti-ecm camp, but I would rather see it modified to break locks rather than jamming them as a way of achieving balance with possible tweaks as suggested in the many ecm threads over the years. Nerfing ecm to the point of becoming as ineffectual as damps does not represent balance.
You did notice that they're boosting the damp bonus on the Celestis right? I think you should try it out before universally declaring doom and gloom just because you tried it with the old 5% damp bonus.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
110
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:48:00 -
[311] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:MIrple wrote:Someone else has said this and I stand by it also EWAR should be your number of Ewar Points vs Ships sensor streingth * max locked targets. So if you can do 50 points of EWAR and the ship you are jamming has a 10 sensor * 6 max target the jammed ship can only target one ship. How does this scale for multiple people or drones jamming the same target? How does this work with damps or TDs? Don't get me wrong: I'd be massively happy for sensor strength to represent some kind of ewar resistance (go go grail set), but... ? -Liang
Damps and TD would still work the same way. If multiple people are jamming someone it would be cumulative so if I have 50 points of jam on someone and you have 50 points of jam on the same person that is 100 points total. I feel this is simpler then the system we have now. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2165
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:49:00 -
[312] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:MIrple wrote:Someone else has said this and I stand by it also EWAR should be your number of Ewar Points vs Ships sensor streingth * max locked targets. So if you can do 50 points of EWAR and the ship you are jamming has a 10 sensor * 6 max target the jammed ship can only target one ship. How does this scale for multiple people or drones jamming the same target? How does this work with damps or TDs? Don't get me wrong: I'd be massively happy for sensor strength to represent some kind of ewar resistance (go go grail set), but... ? -Liang Damps and TD would still work the same way. If multiple people are jamming someone it would be cumulative so if I have 50 points of jam on someone and you have 50 points of jam on the same person that is 100 points total. I feel this is simpler then the system we have now.
I guess that makes it a really complicated version of the way ECM used to work. I think that'd be a massive step back in balance.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
293
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:50:00 -
[313] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:Arbitrator - 4 weapon slots
You have never fit an Arbitrator. |
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:53:00 -
[314] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Nikuno wrote: Sadly this doesn't fill me with confidence. I used the celestis a lot before the damp nerf and have revisited damps at intervals since then with both the lachesis and arazu, always to walk away from their flimsy performance. If ecm was to be dragged down to that level it would simply throw 2 of these ships onto my scrapheap rather than the 1, which cannot be considered an improvement or balancing act in any way. I do rest in the anti-ecm camp, but I would rather see it modified to break locks rather than jamming them as a way of achieving balance with possible tweaks as suggested in the many ecm threads over the years. Nerfing ecm to the point of becoming as ineffectual as damps does not represent balance.
You did notice that they're boosting the damp bonus on the Celestis right? I think you should try it out before universally declaring doom and gloom just because you tried it with the old 5% damp bonus. -Liang
Joining in the discussion about the relative pros and cons or the suggested changes hardly warrants a declaration of doom and gloom, and yes I had seen the 7.5% bonus and that is factored into what I have said so far. I will be trying out all of these ships when they hit the test server, but my opinion rests as stated thus far. |
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 19:54:00 -
[315] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:Nikuno wrote:Arbitrator - 4 weapon slots You have never fit an Arbitrator.
The discussion is about the potential of the ships as they stand with the suggested changes, and yes I have flown an arbitrator often. |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
293
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 20:04:00 -
[316] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:Kuehnelt wrote:Nikuno wrote:Arbitrator - 4 weapon slots You have never fit an Arbitrator. The discussion is about the potential of the ships as they stand with the suggested changes, and yes I have flown an arbitrator often.
The potential changes? The hardpoints are the same as...
oh. That's new. Carry on. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1124
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 20:11:00 -
[317] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Added a launcher hardpoint to the Arbitrator and Celestis Thanks, I think. You may want to consider bumping the CPU on the Arbitrator if you expect us to make use of that. -Liang
nah I like when ships can trade defense for offense with a CPU mod. IF you don't fit the CPU mod you can fit something to take advantage of it's higher than normal powergrid. These kinda of ships are cool and fun to fit. As long as they are brought up in slots, I'm ok with them not having good fitting options. It's kinda cool, I won't complain that my ship is getting 2-3 extra spots to equip gear even if that means I need a few fitting rigs.
It means newer players won't be able to fit them out 100%, they will fly with empty slots by design, that's awesome, the ship gets stronger as you as a pilot do. I hope they actually push this design to make it more obvious and useful. Maybe a few Power grid bonuses per level as the ship line skills? Attack ships get powergrid, other ship lines get cpu, or rig space, i don't know. Just to allow the skill to in a way add slots to your ship you couldn't fit before. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1124
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 20:12:00 -
[318] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Nikuno wrote: Sadly this doesn't fill me with confidence. I used the celestis a lot before the damp nerf and have revisited damps at intervals since then with both the lachesis and arazu, always to walk away from their flimsy performance. If ecm was to be dragged down to that level it would simply throw 2 of these ships onto my scrapheap rather than the 1, which cannot be considered an improvement or balancing act in any way. I do rest in the anti-ecm camp, but I would rather see it modified to break locks rather than jamming them as a way of achieving balance with possible tweaks as suggested in the many ecm threads over the years. Nerfing ecm to the point of becoming as ineffectual as damps does not represent balance.
You did notice that they're boosting the damp bonus on the Celestis right? I think you should try it out before universally declaring doom and gloom just because you tried it with the old 5% damp bonus. -Liang Joining in the discussion about the relative pros and cons or the suggested changes hardly warrants a declaration of doom and gloom, and yes I had seen the 7.5% bonus and that is factored into what I have said so far. I will be trying out all of these ships when they hit the test server, but my opinion rests as stated thus far.
I think it needs to be a 10% bonus....
or at least 12.5% per level on the Tech 2 ship so it can outclass the tech 3 cruiser. PLEASE. if your serious about making tech 2 "better" than tech 3, don't nerf tech 3 ships, they should be stronger than tech 2 ships.
Give tech 2 ships real bonuses that make them stand out at a single task better than any ship in the game. Wether it be speed, EW, target painting, web range, Sentry drones only bonuses. Please CCP? I beg you? http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2166
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 20:25:00 -
[319] - Quote
MM, can you remind me which Proteus subsystem gives a damp bonus? AFAIK, the Friction Extension only gives a scram range bonus, so any ship with a damp bonus has a better bonus than the T3. As to 12.5% damps: you are aware that each damp would be providing > 80% lock range reduction - totally neglecting rigs and links?
I think people should be careful about what they wish for.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
110
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 20:39:00 -
[320] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:MIrple wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:MIrple wrote:Someone else has said this and I stand by it also EWAR should be your number of Ewar Points vs Ships sensor streingth * max locked targets. So if you can do 50 points of EWAR and the ship you are jamming has a 10 sensor * 6 max target the jammed ship can only target one ship. How does this scale for multiple people or drones jamming the same target? How does this work with damps or TDs? Don't get me wrong: I'd be massively happy for sensor strength to represent some kind of ewar resistance (go go grail set), but... ? -Liang Damps and TD would still work the same way. If multiple people are jamming someone it would be cumulative so if I have 50 points of jam on someone and you have 50 points of jam on the same person that is 100 points total. I feel this is simpler then the system we have now. I guess that makes it a really complicated version of the way ECM used to work. I think that'd be a massive step back in balance. -Liang
I see what you are getting at but when you add in your max locked targets into the factor of your sensor strength it give you a different look at ECM. It also make some rarely used mode more viable as they would now have extra benefits. Until we see what CCP has up there sleeve for this we can only put ideas out for discussion. I do wish that these ships would also get a bonuses to the counter EWAR as well as that would make these ship unique and make them even more useful in fleets and not make them OP solo. |
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Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
293
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 20:40:00 -
[321] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Thanks, I think. You may want to consider bumping the CPU on the Arbitrator if you expect us to make use of that.
No CPU problems here? But 800mm plate and 2 PG mods for cruiser-sized weapons. |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
188
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 21:32:00 -
[322] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks to everyone why has been providing constructive feedback here, I really appreciate it.
Have a few tweaks to announce, they're all updated in the OP as well.
- Removed 10m3 dronebay and 10mbit bandwidth from the Bellicose, dropping it back to the 40m3 it has on TQ now. We may re-evaluate again in the future.
- Added a launcher hardpoint to the Arbitrator and Celestis That's a little more like it. I can't see why it ever had as many drones as a Thorax. Four drones and four launchers... ok, that makes a bit more sense. |
Chaunnay Solette
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 21:42:00 -
[323] - Quote
Obsidiana wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks to everyone why has been providing constructive feedback here, I really appreciate it.
Have a few tweaks to announce, they're all updated in the OP as well.
- Removed 10m3 dronebay and 10mbit bandwidth from the Bellicose, dropping it back to the 40m3 it has on TQ now. We may re-evaluate again in the future.
- Added a launcher hardpoint to the Arbitrator and Celestis That's a little more like it. I can't see why it ever had as many drones as a Thorax. Four drones and four launchers... ok, that makes a bit more sense.
Clearly because as we all know the Gallente have had it TOOD GOOD for TOO LONG!
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
200
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 00:21:00 -
[324] - Quote
I really like where this is going and only a few issue bother me...
- Is 10m3 drone bay on BlackBird worth it or just a fluff?
- Will 4,0-4,2k hitpoints be enough to fight battlecruisers without disastrous results?
- Do you plan on lowering the damage potential from tier 2 and 3 battlecruisers to ensure this?
I still think even the EW cruisers deserve a few hundred extra hitpoints to either shield or armor. With a Frigate doing 200dps even 400 hitpoints would only last 5 extra seconds with 60% resistance. But it would make them harder to instapop.
Will be awesome to see more. Keep up the good work... |
Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 12:36:00 -
[325] - Quote
Okay so far most of the ships look pretty good....I'm quite excited if the increased damp strength carries over directly to the arazu (but fingers still crossed to actually be able to get a ship under 8-9km locking range without boost...aka my gallentean brethren who actually use blasters can get in range and then get scrammed/webbed/neuted/TD by the enemy after they are in range)
But my question to CCP and the devs focused on balancing. You said somewhere in these pages (and yes I've read all 17 at this point) that you didn't want to specialize for the sake of specialization, but you are inherently taking away what makes Gallente ships versatile....its ability to fit drones and half the time, rely on its drones to actually hit the target and provide damage.
Now you can't with good faith honestly say that Gallente are not the drone users of Eve, so why are you adding "buffs" to all the other ships by giving them drone versatility? Take a look inside starter corps like CAS - a Gallente player npc corp - you'll often find people asking "What ship should I use? What skills should I train?" The almost over whelming response is to train up your drone skills and get into a ship like the vexor or ishkur, then eventually into an ishtar or dominix. Not to mention, almost every ship (pre-winter changes and some that we've seen now) have some form of drone to balance their dps. Let's take a look at the ships shall we: 1) incursus - 5m3 done bay 2) catalyst - 5m3 drone bay 3) Enyo - 5m3 drone bay 4) Ishkur - 50m3 drone bay 5) Every gallente cruiser has 40m3 or more 6) Every gallente BC has 50m3 or more 7) Every gallente BS has 75m3 or more
Having the ability to field some form of ewar drones and combat drones is what made the Gallente hulls creative. When you take away that niche by giving everyone some "Oh we don't want other ships to make gallente feel left out" 15m3 drone bays or 20m3 drone bay, you take away the role that gallente ships have in small scale fleets. Let's be honest, if we're blaster fit to provide real dps, we usually are the last ones to get dps on the target because we're slow, but we can send webber drones or some other ewar/combat drones and those start going right away to help the fleet out.
With your proposed changes to just add crappy drone bays on every ship because it makes them balanced, you're taking away the sandbox feel as everyone just wants to build ecm-300 OP jamming sandcastles. The fact is that most people fill that joke of a drone bay with ecm-300s and know full well they will get at least 2 or more jams off from 2 or 3 ecm-300s, giving them the safety net of being able to warp off if the armor ship actually manages to catch the kiter. And for those who prefer to always bring combat drones, by adding those small drone bays, you are just welcoming more people to shoot my precious dps and kill it when i fly something like a vexor or arbitrator.
So I'm asking the devs when you consider balancing cruisers and ships in general. Just giving small drones bays to everyone isn't the way to go, it's the easy way out. The races are specialized or else I'd be fitting autocannons on my thorax because they fit nicely and don't use cap, but that's not the case. Each race has a play style and backup play style, so keep that mentality going by not making everyone a drone user. If it so requires, give those ships an extra high slot for another gun, but you should be removing drone bays of most ships that aren't green and made to be in your face brawlers :P
Just my two cents from a true Gallentean, Yun |
Aprudena Gist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 14:33:00 -
[326] - Quote
If you guys dont also hit the combat recons at the same time especially the bad ones like the rook they will be obsolete. |
Allandri
Liandri Industrial Liandri Covenant
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 14:45:00 -
[327] - Quote
Arbitrator, you are going to be my new friend coming in the winter expansion. Especially now that TD's are going to affect missiles :D |
Alx Warlord
Security Task Force
160
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 14:58:00 -
[328] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks to everyone why has been providing constructive feedback here, I really appreciate it.
Have a few tweaks to announce, they're all updated in the OP as well.
- Removed 10m3 dronebay and 10mbit bandwidth from the Bellicose, dropping it back to the 40m3 it has on TQ now. We may re-evaluate again in the future.
- Added a launcher hardpoint to the Arbitrator and Celestis
hmmm and about the DRONE bonus for the gallente!!!!1?1? [Discussion] - New POS System (Construction Block Built - Starbasecraft) |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
294
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:03:00 -
[329] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:hmmm and about the DRONE bonus for the gallente!!!!1?1?
It'll be on the Vexor. |
Alx Warlord
Security Task Force
160
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 15:25:00 -
[330] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:Alx Warlord wrote:hmmm and about the DRONE bonus for the gallente!!!!1?1? It'll be on the Vexor.
hmm true, but the main question is why the Amar have the bonus?
I still need to get used to the idea that celestis main rolle will be long range Damp for sniper fleet cover. I don't see it near the front line... I was hoping that it could be used to kill things...
Also, these ship bonuses goes up with level or it is a flat vallue? [Discussion] - New POS System (Construction Block Built - Starbasecraft) |
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