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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Madenofpain
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[601]
I have read Zulu blog but still have my alts account unsubscribed and not planning on getting another plex to renew this one tell I here CCP say you will not do any game changing items like ships or skill points, and so on. Once I hear this I will be more than happy to reactivate my accounts. I hope you listen to the community on this issues.
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Capsuleer Newton
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[602]
CSM going to Iceland? Wouldn't that be putting pressure on them? I mean, argue much and you're swimming home... ... oh, a white bunny...
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Sophie Vherokior
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[603]
CCP Zulu's latest blog is definitely a step in the right direction. Clear information and a clear tone. Also, it takes a big man to step up in front of thousands and admit to making mistakes, so cut the guy some slack.
From the Hilmar e-mail: "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".
This was the worst, the most damaging part of the whole thing, to find out that the CEO of CCP doesn't feel the opinions of the players matter unless they actually cancel their subscriptions. CCP, we built this game together. Sure you programmed the code and made the pretty spaceships, but us players built the corporations, the alliances, the lotteries, the univesities, the scams and politics and spying and all the other stuff that sets EVE apart from the other games out there. You gave us a sandbox and we built sandcastles. You cannot ignore us or say that our opinions do not matter, we have put as much time and energy into this as you have and paid you good money for the privilege.
Please take some time internally to reflect on your attitude towards your customers. I've worked many years in IT administration and support and I know how easy it is to 'demonize' the users (or in your case players). Users are seen as unreasonable, demanding and often to be the cause of their own problems. The irony here is that once you take such a stance towards your users you become part of the problem and without even knowing it will treat the unreasonable and the reasonable alike. Suddenly it becomes OK to send out a mail to all your employers stating that the users are 'very predictable' in their complaints and that instead of addressing those complaints we shall simply 'stay the course'.
In other words it might be time to have an internal discussion as to the danger of becoming jaded and bitter from the encounters with your customers.
Just my two cents.
Soph
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Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 -
[604]
Originally by CCP Fallout
Recently, a third-party Web site stated that they had received confidential information regarding a buyout of CCP by Sony Online Entertainment. I can confirm that neither Sony nor CCP are in such discussions, and CCP is and remains and independent company.
Good work, a swift, firm NO, THIS IS NOT HAPPENING.
I applaud such clear communication.
So....Why exactly is it taking days for CCP to say the same thing about non vanity MT's?
I repeat
Why exactly is it taking days for CCP to say the same thing about non vanity MT's?
Says it all really.....
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Ameiva
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:18:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
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Mersault
Gallente The Pie Factory
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:18:00 -
[606]
I see this as a positive reply to the community by CCP Zulu. I understand the concerns of the players who have been enraged by the prospect of sandbox breaking or market altering Aurum purchases.
I will be watching to see what the summit brings.
EvE forever.
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Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:20:00 -
[607]
To Arnar Hrafn Gylfason aka CCP Zulu Your post is a first step, but it isn't what I want to hear.
1st. If you are "fueled" by emotions, ask your comrades to have a look over your text, before you insult thousands of players.
2nd. you want to buy time. instead of giving the demanded answers to the community, you flee in an ominous emergency meeting with the csm. why the csm?? THE VOTE OF THE COMMUNITY IS HERE! so open your eyes and start working!
WE WANT ANSWERS NOW AND NOT IN AN UNCLEAR FUTURE! by your plans either the rage will continue one further week, arrousing of more and more members, or you will act. and i advise you to act. the numbers of dissappointed players that will quit eve will not be stopped by your post. YOU HAVE TO ACT NOW, NOT IN A WEEK!
3rd. why others? you are responsible for the communication catastrophy, zulu, stand for it!
4th. what mutual agreement? you betrayed us. you lied to us. you have to build the foundation for further trust. how can you speak about mutuality?
5th. what underlying concerns? read the posts of the responses to your last devblog. its your task! there you'll see what concerns are clearly pointed out. there are some posts of pure and unproductive hate, but there are some posts of clear and constructive critcism. do what you are paid for and read the posts!
6th. why patience? asking for patience means that you haven't understood. eve is burning. forums are burning. and you have kindled the flame to light the protest. if you let it burn, if you stay in "patience", eve won't be eve anymore, but you just let it burn. patience is a bad advice in this situation.
7th. be fearless! you, sir, have fear. patience, csm, no answers to onging matters, buying time - what are you doing?? GIVE ANSWERS, NOW! DO YOUR JOB! AND CALM DOWN THE RAGE NOW BY CLEAR DECISIONS BY ADMITTING A FAULT THAT YOU NOR CCP NOR OTHERS OF CCP WONT DO AGAIN! DON'T TREAT US LIKE "CASH COWS", CLOSE YOUR NEX-STORE AND NEVER OPEN IT AGAIN!!
you, zulu, have not convinced me. try harder!
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:20:00 -
[608]
Originally by: Darik Jita what you do, not what you say
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zelda Wei
Caldari New Horizon Trade Exchange
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:21:00 -
[609]
"breach of trust"
It should be pretty obvious who this refers to, one person broke the NDA and published the leak.
Is he going to receive the same punishment as the previous CSM member to do the same or are we going to see a double standard at work?
The damage impact of this leak and has been much greater than the previous incident.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:22:00 -
[610]
I would like to see a dev roadmap as to what features and fixes are planned for the next 12 month time frame (at a minimum.)
I'm less concerned about MTs and more concerned whether Eve is going to focus on Space Barbie or on internet spaceships and to what degree.
----- <wearing_$1000_jeans> Let them eat cake! </wearing_$1000_jeans> |
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Svalinn
SOMER Blink Cognitive Development
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:23:00 -
[611]
Judge the players on what we do, less on what they say.
This is a two way street - we judge the company on what it does, and less on what it says. Unfortunately, the company has done nothing but talk so far, so we're kinda left living on scraps. So I'll bite CCP Zulu, and I'll show you the problems you have. I'll point out what you said, and what it translates as.
Quote: The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words. However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.
A breach of trust is never easy, and you are quite right; you have shattered the trust between us almost for good. The person/persons responsible for the leaked information are heroes in the eyes of the community. And I feel terrible because you are just going to fire/discipline them, the ones who tried to warn us what you were planning.
Quote: For that I am sorry.
Is this honest?
Quote: Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.
Our bond was strong. Then you ignored the CSM, you ignored the players, you treated us like crap and thought you could get away for it. In a single week, you have made EVE Online the laughing stock of the gaming world, broke apart corporations and groups of friends more completely than the best scam, and alienated a player base that is unlike anything else. We are not just some WoW crowd. We are the products of the biggest sandbox ever known; politics, deceit, strategy are our trade. Through this we know you; we know how you operate; we know when you are talking truth, and when you are talking out your arse. Right now, its the latter.
Quote: Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.
So why does the CSM need to run to Iceland with 4 days notice, to tell you what you already know? Lets be clear: Don't do this unless they actually mean something to you. Otherwise you waste their time and by extension ours.
Quote: The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.
The CSM are the player voice. Right now, that's one very large, very angry voice. There is only one option we will accept, there is no room for compromise.
Quote: However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
"gold ammo" is specific, you don't rule out others. What you haven't answered is the big question - Will you sell anything other than Vanity items? This is another example of how information without substance is no information at all.
This isn't about the CSM communicating the player opinion. It's about you being prepared to listen and learn.
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Jedek
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:23:00 -
[612]
Now I'm sure your hilmars ***** Zulu. It doesn't take a summoning of the csm and a week long delay to solve this problem. 1. Don't sell rmt items that give any in game advantage. Keep it strictly vanity. 2 cq needs to be optional with a disembark button.... Like you guys originally promised. 3. Fix a lot of the old **** you put in game but left alone.
All you are doing is buying time and moving the goal post. I dont want to see the nex evolve, I want it to always sell useless crap that won't effect squat. The csm response should be simple, you violated our trust the nex will not go beyond vanity items period. Oh fire hilmar and Zulu since all you seem to be able to do is come across as hilmars lap dog.
You really stepped in it, and I truly hope this game goes the route of swg if the current leadership remains at the helm. Nge ftw.
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gargars
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:23:00 -
[613]
Originally by: Sophie Vherokior
From the Hilmar e-mail: "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".
This was the worst, the most damaging part of the whole thing, to find out that the CEO of CCP doesn't feel the opinions of the players matter unless they actually cancel their subscriptions.
THIS. No rosy blogs or delay-tactic meetings with the CSM will negate this.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:23:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Either way, MT would still be optional.
àand that's still a thoroughly narrow-minded way of approaching the issue and ignores the fact that MT can quite easily compromise the market. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Thynar
Gallente Melita Foundation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:24:00 -
[615]
This is my first comment on all this issue. I have taken a backseat while trying to digest all the info drowning the spacewaves. My position, as if anyone cares, is against MT for non-vanity items. I could not care less if a monocle costs 50 cents or a million Euros as long as it does not affect gameplay.
The last Zulu devblog leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. Once again he reiterates on the Fearless newsletter. I find it hard to swallow his line that the Fearless articles were only for internal debate. Should I accept that at face value, it still leaves an unanswered querstion - if the EVE comunity rejected MT for non-vanity items a while ago, why would CCP even need to debate it?
I do not believe that a new and controversial revenue stream like MT is within the CSM's competency. It is a high level decision in any company - the meeting with the CSM screams of delaying tactics.
Fianlly, although I appreciate that "gold ammo" may be interpreted in many ways, please note that a subtantial amount of players in this thread (including me) are not satisfied. We need a statement a la Trebor (apparently struck off by Zulu) to ease our concerns. Incredibly, while the SOE rumour was killed in under an hour, CCP cannot give us this last request.
I have ditched every game that went down the MT road. EVE will be no exception. I am still subbed with two accounts - an alt which runs out on the 7th of July and this character expiring on the 21st of July. My EVE experience seems to be at an end - P2W is not fun for me.
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:25:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Mersault I see this as a positive reply to the community by CCP Zulu. I understand the concerns of the players who have been enraged by the prospect of sandbox breaking or market altering Aurum purchases.
I will be watching to see what the summit brings.
EvE forever.
Positive would have been to say there would be no non-vanity items in the MT shop. I see nothing positive in continually avoiding the question.
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Calistai Huranu
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:25:00 -
[617]
A cast iron promise of No Non-vanity item's will ever be available through Aurum would of sufficed, just stating No "gold" ammo is not enough, as such don't expect me to be renewing my account once its time run's out, thoroughly disgusted by the attitude and behaviour of CCP throughout this debacle.
And to think I was actually contemplating re-activating one of my other account's just last week, to say that's highly unlikely to happen now is a bit of an understatement..
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OldPueblo
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:26:00 -
[618]
CCP reveal your financials, we will audit them.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:26:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Jedek Now I'm sure your hilmars ***** Zulu. It doesn't take a summoning of the csm and a week long delay to solve this problem. 1. Don't sell rmt items that give any in game advantage. Keep it strictly vanity. 2 cq needs to be optional with a disembark button.... Like you guys originally promised. 3. Fix a lot of the old **** you put in game but left alone.
All you are doing is buying time and moving the goal post. I dont want to see the nex evolve, I want it to always sell useless crap that won't effect squat. The csm response should be simple, you violated our trust the nex will not go beyond vanity items period. Oh fire hilmar and Zulu since all you seem to be able to do is come across as hilmars lap dog.
You really stepped in it, and I truly hope this game goes the route of swg if the current leadership remains at the helm. Nge ftw.
Overreacting a bit, aren't we? I'm sorry I have to say, speak for yourself.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[620]
From CSM5 Chair Mynxee, who is currently unsubbed:
Zulu: Thanks for this devblog. We have asked you to engage with the CSM on these weighty recent matters. There is no better demonstration of your commitment to that than flying them to Iceland for face to face communications. This has been a terribly uncomfortable and stressful time for everyone (even people like me who, despite no longer being subbed, cannot seem to stop caring about EVE and its community). I hope this meeting provides a way forward that is in the best interests of EVE, the players, and CCP. Also, I hope that the subsequent minutes are published speedily and in conjunction with dialog and dev blogs from CCP to communicate the results.
Originally by: Mena Arzi What about PLEX for Remaps? We know that was one of the original ideas, not exactly gamebreaking but still non-vanity MT.
That was part of the original MT discussions with CSM5, the upshot of which was that MT should be vanity-only, and that PLEX for Remaps -- which was a plan that was floated to us, but never formally planned AFAIK -- was over the line.
Thus, no PLEX for Remaps.
Originally by: Garrance If you realize speed is a big issue - why make us all wait for a week or more by talking to CCP in ICELAND? Do it by Skype and save us all that time waiting. Otherwise it seems just a CCP delay tactic.
We do a lot of Skype chats, and have done voice conferences with CCP in the past. But honestly, they are not nearly as good as being able to look people in the eye and see them sweat when you ask them the tough questions.
That's why people fly around the world for meetings -- they are much higher bandwidth.
No doubt some CSMs will have work obligations that prevent them from attending, and will teleconference in if possible. But that is a poor substitute IMHO -- so in this respect I must disagree with my colleague Meissa.
And of course, we are not going to sit around with our thumbs up our asses for the next few days, we'll be very, very busy prepping.
Originally by: Mag's Please CSM, tell them we would also like CQ to be optional as promised.
By a staggering coincidence, this is already on our list...
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Ranger 1
Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.
Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...
While you're out white knighting on your horse, consider at one time MTs were never on the table.
At one point, neither were PLEX.
My point is that the release of the edited, out of context issue of Fearless was little more than an attention grab.
Sensationalistic journalism at it's finest.
Yet instead of cynically realizing this as the EVE community should have easily been capable of doing, it instead allowed the forum trolls to whip people into a mindless frenzy over it.
A LARGE number of people did not fall for it, and tried to say so. However they were repeatedly drown out by those self same trolls.
Believe what you want.
Like everyone else here, I will be waiting to see what CCP does and pay more attention to that than what they say. An attitude that apparently CCP heartily endorses.
I just refuse to allow doctored documents and half baked theories to interfere with my judgement.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[622]
Just another blatant stall tactic.
And insulting blog once you dissect what it means.
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Souxie Alduin
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[623]
"However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days."
Umm.. could someone from CCP elaborate on this? This is definitely the part of this blog that has me the most worried. Did someone at the top sell you out? Are your venture capitalist investors forcing MT down your throat? Are you joining Sony and is it really their PR people talking through your mouths right now?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[624]
It's sad to see you have to REpromise somethin you allready did back in 2009 but ok.
Quote: Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st
We will watch your actions, not your word.
That said there was no better action then actually doing something real like this. But it comes down to what happens that day.
We know you can answer 300 forum posters, and 1000's of players ingame one on one. But you fail to answer the questions of the CSM in such a small group, then it's fing over forever. And not just eve, I'll make sure to denounce all your future games too all of my friends as well.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:28:00 -
[625]
Ok guys, it's time to give this meeting a chance. I was there in the last thread complaining. I was there in the protests. And now I'm joining the call for a ceasefire here. I'm happy with the answer to MT presented, I'm willing to take them at their word and hope that they move forward with the CSM in good faith.
It's time to give diplomacy a chance people, and to take them at their word on MT. Please, please don't manufacture problems based on wording or some other *******s, it makes us look like a bunch of ******s and it's going to make them disinclined to listen to our concerns.
Right now, Jaw jaw > war war
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:28:00 -
[626]
Originally by: CCP Zulu virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE
they will evolve until we are expected to buy ships, ammo, other items, skillpoints ETC for real money and EVE is pay2win.
CCP once more trying to extinguish a fire with oxygen.
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Randomize All
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:28:00 -
[627]
What you do, not what you say.
Who you ban, not what you do.
Where will it end?
I don't know. Certainly not Perpetuum though, that really wasn't for me.
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Astar Kreth
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:29:00 -
[628]
Edited by: Astar Kreth on 26/06/2011 20:31:53 I would like to thank CCP Zulu for this message, and emphasize that I fully understand why you too would be frustrated with the response from the EVE community.
Obviously you at CCP have put in months of work into Incarna, and to have to have it thrown back in your face is clearly difficult.
I think I mirror the majority of the community when I say that All people want is to make sure that AUR can be used to enable people to come into the game, spend a few hundred dollars and suddenly have the same skills/ships/mods that some of the older members (with my account being an '08 activation I do not personally fit this group) have had to work years and years to obtain. I was personally involved in the protest in Amarr, but hope for a ceasefire soon, there is no sense in us fighting as we all want the same result. A great game with internet spaceships for us to enjoy
Golden Bullets only seek to destabilize the game, There is nothing quite like seeing a 100million + SP toon in action, and the reason for this is that they are rare. Lets keep these grandfathers of the game as just that.
I would like to commend the EVE community for grouping together and expressing their opinions during what has been a difficult week, and I heartily support the extraordinary CSM meeting, as even before the meeting is held, the step itself does a great amount to emphasize the degree of respect CCP has for the online community.
Looking forward to the ongoing debate, and Respect to both CCP and the Community.
Long Live Eve Online.
Best regards
Astar Kreth
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:29:00 -
[629]
Originally by: Svennig Ok guys, it's time to give this meeting a chance. I was there in the last thread complaining. I was there in the protests. And now I'm joining the call for a ceasefire here. I'm happy with the answer to MT presented, I'm willing to take them at their word and hope that they move forward with the CSM in good faith.
It's time to give diplomacy a chance people, and to take them at their word on MT. Please, please don't manufacture problems based on wording or some other *******s, it makes us look like a bunch of ******s and it's going to make them disinclined to listen to our concerns.
Right now, Jaw jaw > war war
The meeting is 3 days to late mate. And only stalls this out longer.
Its been made pretty freaking clear what we want. They need to roll back on everything. Then have a meeting and decide where to go from there.
And actually mean what they say.
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Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:30:00 -
[630]
Quote: ...we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.
Is going back on your word regarding MT a sign that there is any semblance of these noble ideals? Is the following an indicator of a deep mutual trust and respect?
Quote: I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.
Probably not.
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