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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |

The Bazzalisk
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
9
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:21:00 -
[391] - Quote
Care to explain why Heavy Missiles are being nerfed so catastrophically and why the Hurricane as 'an arty ship' is being nerfed despite it never being used as an arty ship?
'Hey, artilleries are too hard to fit. Let's reduce the PG requirement for them and reduce the Hurricane PG requirement so that they're still hard to fit.'
No one will still fit medium artilleries, you know, because a) they'll still be hard to fit and b) they'll still suck major league balls.
Bravo CCP |

Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive Blue Nation
103
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:22:00 -
[392] - Quote
A 20% nerf to heavy missile damage is pretty heavy handed. I would have thought the range nerf would be enough to be honest. I wouldn't be suprised if you ended up completely destroying heavy missiles' usefullness. |

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
164
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:22:00 -
[393] - Quote
My initial gut reaction to the HML nerf is that it seems a bit heavy handed.
Before I jump to conclusions on that one though, I have to ask; what's the baseline weapons system performance benchmark you're going for with cruiser sized weapon systems? |

Laura Dexx
Snuff Box
1
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:23:00 -
[394] - Quote
HMLs still have the highest sustained damage, second highest range and second highest volley of all the systems. Sure, missiles take a while to reach a target, but when they do, they are more consistent in applying the damage to targets of equal or higher size, as it should be for all weapon systems.
You look at the massive nerf percentages, but you fail to perceive how strong they were compared to other weapon systems. Stop whining, you really have no basis to stand on. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1230
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:24:00 -
[395] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Yes, exactly. Many thanks for providing this. As you can see in the graph, heavy missiles pretty much dominate this range class of weapons, with the only weapons system providing any advantage at all being railguns on a Ferox - and at a huge DPS hit to achieve this.
If you run the same graph after the changes Fozzie is proposing, you will see that there are now actual advantages to using other weapons besides HML at these ranges.
Which other Medium Range Weapons Systems do you think will replace them. I will give you a hint, it starts with none and ends with none. Not gonna see anymore LOL Medium Beams or LOL Medium Rails, maybe a few 720mm Whelp Boats but only if they have the vaunted double DPS Bonus. So how does nerfing the good weapons system so none of them are good help EVE Hans. Why can we not see buffs to medium weapons and bonuses so Ferox's, Harbingers and Canes are seen as much as Drakes and keep the Drake as a viable fleet option instead of this Death to Drakes out of spite thing and every other Cruiser that uses Heavy Missiles along with it.
This is the only valid concern in this thread so far.
So what's the problem of other medium weapons, tracking, low dps or both?
(aka why HMs we're OP )
Or could it be that they only sucked in comparison to HMLs?
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Wolfgang Eisenstern
Ashfell Celestial Equilibrium POD-SQUAD
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:24:00 -
[396] - Quote
I just have to wonder why CCP opts to solve a problem by severely reducing missile effectiveness?
A more constructive way would be to fix the counter-stuff that don't work or perhaps add other stuff to have this counter effect.
1. Defender missiles. Boost these instead. Anti-missile-missiles that should be more effective. 2. Tracking disruptors working on missiles is good. 3. Make short range turrets to have anti-missile capabilities. To get short-range Anti-Missile-gatlings or something to select a missile defense program for them. 4. Scripts to load affecting probability of hitting missiles and drones. 5. Other forms of defense systems. An EVE version of todays technologies with Chaffs, Flares etc would be a definate choice. 6. Add a new class of defense drones specialized in anti-missile combat. 7. Add a swarm battery of micro-missiles that have same sort of ammo-loading that cap-chargers etc, with a pretty fast cycle time, that will engage all missiles within a certain range (if they have time to track them for enough time). This will enable anti-missile defense ships for fleet battles.
This is just suggestions I come up with in a short time... and all I read suggested is "NERF, NERF, NERF!!!"... Not that constructive... I hope CCP reads this and thinks - 'Aahhh... maybe we should approach this the same way as mining'... that is to make other stuff better to balance. I just think adding new equipment would be better. Makes for more research, more production and more ISK - which we all want. |

Aglais
Liberation Army BricK sQuAD.
93
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:25:00 -
[397] - Quote
Evelgrivion wrote:My initial gut reaction to the HML nerf is that it seems a bit heavy handed.
Before I jump to conclusions on that one though, I have to ask; what's the baseline weapons system performance benchmark you're going for with cruiser sized weapon systems?
I personally think they had railguns in mind for the new HML stats. Find the problem.
Hint, it's railguns. |

Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
721
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:26:00 -
[398] - Quote
My main concern with these changes is that you are fully removing a SIXTH of the Hurricane's powergrid, all in one fell swoop. This affects far more than simply artillery Hurricanes; virtually every kind of Hurricane fit today is adversely affected by these changes. Is this intended?
I might also make note that Rapid Light launchers with Fury will do 96% the DPS of Heavy launchers with faction after these changes, albeit with half the range. Are you sure you aren't nerfing HML DPS a little too much? Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |

Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
190
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:29:00 -
[399] - Quote
rofflesausage wrote:Missiles are already underused in PvP, being pretty much banned in some fleets I've been in.
Let's pull up the top 20 page on eve-kill dot net
RankWeaponsKills 1Heavy Missile Launcher II78177 2425mm AutoCannon II20772 3Heavy Pulse Laser II15799
Yeah, you're pretty much full of ****. Heavy missiles are OP and should be nerfed. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2169
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:32:00 -
[400] - Quote
These changes make both TEs and TDs both must-have modules for every ship. They need a nerf.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Reppyk
The Black Shell
172
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:32:00 -
[401] - Quote
I support the OP.
Most of it seem good (but I'm a bit unsure about the T2 missiles). |

The Bazzalisk
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:33:00 -
[402] - Quote
I also can't understand this obsession with swinging the nerfhammer around like some bloodthirsty viking. Why not retrieve the significantly underused buffhammer from its dusty shelf instead? |

Aglais
Liberation Army BricK sQuAD.
96
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:37:00 -
[403] - Quote
Haquer wrote:
Let's pull up the top 20 page on eve-kill dot net
RankWeaponsKills 1Heavy Missile Launcher II78177 2425mm AutoCannon II20772 3Heavy Pulse Laser II15799
Yeah, you're pretty much full of ****. Heavy missiles are OP and should be nerfed.
You can correlate that with the Drake being the top ship. HMLs on most other ships are meh. Hell, this is also almost all kinetic damage! If you change to something else, it's much less. I can guarantee you that maybe 75000 of those HML II kills were using kinetic missiles grunted out of a drake. The problem is the combination of traits the Drake has/had that make it viable. Nobody screams bloody murder if you put HMLs on a Rook, or a Lachesis. Also what about the Minmatar missile boats that are going to be negatively impacted by this, such as the new Bellicose this winter? Well, it's probably going to become Caracal II and the bane of frigates and destroyers everywhere. Making the Caracal useless.
Watch how this all changes after winter. Caldari and Gallente are going to be having a tea party together, down at the "least used ships" rung of the ladder. |

rofflesausage
State War Academy Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:38:00 -
[404] - Quote
Fras Siabi wrote:rofflesausage wrote:
This is awful. Missiles are already underused in PvP, being pretty much banned in some fleets I've been in.
What?
You could do what I just did - check your own TEST killboard on both losses and kills and see how many ships use missiles in general.
Hint: It's not a lot. If you exclude Drakes and Tengus, missile use looks even more pitiful.
Finding a PvP ship that uses cruise missiles is difficult, heavys are propped in position by Drakes and Tengus, lights are only suited to a handful of ships and torps are not often used outside of Stealth Bombers.
I'll say it again: Missiles are already underused in PvP. Take away the Drake and the Tengu and the numbers start to look awful. Your own killboard shows this. |

progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
39
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:39:00 -
[405] - Quote
Finally Drakes and Heavy missiles are getting the nerf they deserve. Heavy missiles are way too OP, and this has been long overdue.
If you don't go through with the heavy missile nerf, it will just prove what everyone already suspects, that goons hold a significant influence over CCP and adjust the game as they see fit.
Quote:Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar -Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect: Max flight time (with optimal range script) Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
Your range will be fine. |

Etheoma
The Dark Space Initiative
6
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:40:00 -
[406] - Quote
HERE COMES THE NERF BATE AGAIN; AND OH NOOOOOO! THEY TOOK A SWING AT THE HEAVY MISSILES!
20% damage decrease wtf I get the range decrease and would have been disappointed but also would have seen why if they left it at that BUT NO they had to f*** with the already mediocre damage of heavy missiles... great... And I don't even use heavy missiles that much. Well I'm going to be switching to a loki for doing PVE |

Laura Dexx
Snuff Box
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:40:00 -
[407] - Quote
rofflesausage wrote:Fras Siabi wrote:rofflesausage wrote:
This is awful. Missiles are already underused in PvP, being pretty much banned in some fleets I've been in.
What? You could do what I just did - check your own TEST killboard on both losses and kills and see how many ships use missiles in general. Hint: It's not a lot. If you exclude Drakes and Tengus, missile use looks even more pitiful. Finding a PvP ship that uses cruise missiles is difficult, heavys are propped in position by Drakes and Tengus, lights are only suited to a handful of ships and torps are not often used outside of Stealth Bombers. I'll say it again: Missiles are already underused in PvP. Take away the Drake and the Tengu and the numbers start to look awful. Your own killboard shows this.
Keyword there being 'if you exclude drakes and tengus'. What? Are you ********? |

Lord Ryan
True Xero
601
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:40:00 -
[408] - Quote
Laura Dexx wrote:HMLs still have the highest sustained damage, second highest range and second highest volley of all the systems. Sure, missiles take a while to reach a target, but when they do, they are more consistent in applying the damage to targets of equal or higher size, as it should be for all weapon systems.
You look at the massive nerf percentages, but you fail to perceive how strong they were compared to other weapon systems. Stop whining, you really have no basis to stand on.
Sounds like a case of make it suck as bad as everything else. 425's will still work good but You'll have to fit them to BS if you want any tank at all. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |

Aglais
Liberation Army BricK sQuAD.
96
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:42:00 -
[409] - Quote
I think another prong to this issue here is the fact that to my knowledge the Drake is the only T1 missile focused battlecruiser. Has anyone else noticed that? Because that seems to be a thing. |

Laura Dexx
Snuff Box
2
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:43:00 -
[410] - Quote
Because that is exactly what you want to do when we have a blob landscape as we have right now: increase the damage and range on everything so that **** dies even faster. This is balance, friend. There are other ship classes to hold in regard as well. |
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Lord Ryan
True Xero
601
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:44:00 -
[411] - Quote
Honda makes a good car, Ford makes a crappy car. Auto manufactures get together and decide to nerf Honda. Immersion? Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |

Corteztkiller
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
2
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:44:00 -
[412] - Quote
Is there any chance that heavy assault missles could get a slight buff? It might just be me but they seem to be an underused weapons system. |

Asmodes Reynolds
Rayn Enterprises
76
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:44:00 -
[413] - Quote
confirming that ccp is to incompetent to balance their game properly, instead of having unique in vastly different mechanics for their weapons systems and tanking modules to make the game exciting and engaging, where the meta-game is constantly changing and they have decided to make every tanking type, and every weapons system at virtually the same. .
A couple patches back in Inferno, they wanted to change shield/armor function virtually the same. Favoring passive/active changing as your choice. Needless to say that's a very bad idea. They started by trying to change the rigs. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99872 ( CCP bouncing ideas, are as close to good , as fire is to ice .because none of them actually play it again besides missioning/mining in high-sec ).
Now they're trying to change missiles to match the turret-based weapons, claiming that it'll make it easier for new players.. all it will do is dumbed down eve even more. It is gotten so bad that there is very little difference between the races, Beyond what slots they used to tank, and what flavor of gun they put in their high slots. well I admit there is problems with most of the missile boats in the game at the moment I think that is more wrong with ships themselves than the actual missile mechanic.
what is going to make this thing easier for new players, is more mechanics built in that facilitates experienced players teaching the new players. Here's some ideas off the top of my head. Reworking the certificate system so that players, make and share certificates among the corporation mates and their alliance mates easily. The certificates could be used for anything such as an easy to look up new player training plan. All the way up to figuring out if you have enough skills to qualify for reimbursement on a particular ship.
Because God knows none of the CCP staff are qualified to teach someone how to properly fit a ship or the skills required to properly fitted anymore. I'm going to hazard a guess and say no CCP dev is playing the way the average player does since the T2 lottery scandal. THE FACT THAT NO Dev plays the game the way the majority of pvper play. They have no clue about balancing past they care bearing in hisec.
so I urge you to put new player training in the hands of current players and give usThe tools to do it. Instead of dumbing down eve to the lowest of dominator |

Ensign X
246
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:46:00 -
[414] - Quote
Haquer wrote:rofflesausage wrote:Missiles are already underused in PvP, being pretty much banned in some fleets I've been in.
Let's pull up the top 20 page on eve-kill dot net RankWeaponsKills 1Heavy Missile Launcher II78177 2425mm AutoCannon II20772 3Heavy Pulse Laser II15799 Yeah, you're pretty much full of ****. Heavy missiles are OP and should be nerfed.
Yup, those numbers aren't skewed by HMLs being one of only 2(HAM being the other) weapon systems that the Drake can fit, whereas the Hurricane commonly uses as many as 5-7 different weapon systems (180mm, 220mm, 425mm, 720mm, etc.). And it's also not skewed by the Drake being heavily reimbursed by Null entities in their Null blobs.
Context. You fail at it. |

Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
206
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:46:00 -
[415] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Laura Dexx wrote:HMLs still have the highest sustained damage, second highest range and second highest volley of all the systems. Sure, missiles take a while to reach a target, but when they do, they are more consistent in applying the damage to targets of equal or higher size, as it should be for all weapon systems.
You look at the massive nerf percentages, but you fail to perceive how strong they were compared to other weapon systems. Stop whining, you really have no basis to stand on. Sounds like a case of make it suck as bad as everything else. 425's will still work good but You'll have to fit them to BS if you want any tank at all. Wait, what? Battleship-sized weapons will have to be fitted to battleships to have a decent tank against comparable weapons?!
 |

Oleszka
Syntropia Of Avatara
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:47:00 -
[416] - Quote
EvE-Craft....USK 0 you have never seen more useless changes and statistiks. EvE-Movie, take a look and enjoy it PushMe |

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
857
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:49:00 -
[417] - Quote
I haven't read everything yet...
So excuse me.
But seriously... nerf cane but not drake first?
Seriously, the cane is hardly overpowered compared to the Drake.
Going back to reading. Getting my rage out early...  Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |

Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
230
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:49:00 -
[418] - Quote
Aglais wrote:
You can correlate that with the Drake being the top ship.
Exactly, alliances use the drake for the combo of factors, mainly the Bs-like EHP. If Drakes used Civilian Gatling Guns those things would be considered overpowered lol.
I'm all for tweaks, this is too much too fast and it will have too many negative affects on things ccp aren't trying to "balance" like PVE. i'll adapt (buying Navy raven and serp tracking comps for my ratting in 3...2....1....) but it's just a waste of dev time because if history tells us anything, their WILL be an un-nerf cycle to follow this nerf. |

Ensign X
246
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:49:00 -
[419] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:If you don't go through with the heavy missile nerf, it will just prove what everyone already suspects, that goons hold a significant influence over CCP and adjust the game as they see fit.
Because the GOONS couldnt have used any other fleet doctrine to keep your alliance cowering in stations before you tucked tail and ran out of Nullsec. ****, they could have been parked outside your stations in Rifters and had the same effect. Drake blobs aren't the reason for the downfall of your alliance. Terrible leadership is the reason for the downfall of your alliance. |

The Bazzalisk
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
10
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:49:00 -
[420] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:The Bazzalisk wrote:I also can't understand this obsession with swinging the nerfhammer around like some bloodthirsty viking. Why not retrieve the significantly underused buffhammer from its dusty shelf instead? ... We have a dozen threads in this forum that's showcasing the use of the buffhammer. It boggles my mind that you don't notice unless it's affecting whatever ship you're flying today. -Liang Yes, buffing the T1 frigates so a majority become redundant and useless and the T1 cruisers in a way which doesn't actually solve the problem of why they're never used. Meanwhile, the staples of my ship hangar - Drake, Hurricane and Tengu - get their skulls cracked by the nerfhammer. |
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