Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1278
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 22:30:00 -
[271] - Quote
Valari Nala Zena wrote:Why pay out the bounty in one kill, why not just get payed depending on the ship your target was flying (minus a percentage). The pilot with bounty should in no way be able to make money out of it, blowing himself up with alt + insurance & bounty.
For example: Pilot A has a bounty of 500 mil. Pilot B kills pilot A who was flying a Tengu.
Pilot B gets payed ~100 mil. The bounty of Pilot A is now 400 mil. Wow. What an excellent idea.
Next time, read the OP.
Caldari Militia |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4794
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 22:31:00 -
[272] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: Next time, read the OP.
Hi there, I see you're new to these forums
Let me show you around
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1278
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 22:34:00 -
[273] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hi there, I see you're new to these forums
Let me show you around I'm still wondering why I get labelled as obnoxious? Right alongside Pipa Porto.
Caldari Militia |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1194
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 23:58:00 -
[274] - Quote
I think somebody needs to tell Poetic Stanzeil she's a dev... lol! 
|

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1280
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 00:01:00 -
[275] - Quote
Speculating on some bit of information concerning the upcoming bounty system is obnoxious? Here I thought it was kinda fun. Caldari Militia |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1194
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 00:02:00 -
[276] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Speculating on some bit of information concerning the upcoming bounty system is obnoxious? Here I thought it was kinda fun. I don't get it. Did I get trolled? I would not have guessed you to be a dev.
Why do I always have to be such a nub...
Your blog is interesting to read at any rate.
|
|

CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3308

|
Posted - 2012.10.04 11:46:00 -
[277] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Speculating on some bit of information concerning the upcoming bounty system is obnoxious? Here I thought it was kinda fun. I don't get it. Did I get trolled? I would not have guessed you to be a dev. Why do I always have to be such a nub... Your blog is interesting to read at any rate.
I jokingly said in an earlier post here that Poetic was my alt. I thought my joke was pretty obvious  Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
|

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
345
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 16:11:00 -
[278] - Quote
From the new devblog, earning a 'criminal' flag will generate a killright. I assume this replaces the current system.
Quote:Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed. From the chart included in the blog, illegally attacking and blowing up a ship in lowsec will not generate a criminal flag, only a suspect flag. Attacking a pod illegally does create a killright. So just flying around low around murdering innocents won't hand out killrights to half of New Eden.
Am I reading this right? |

Jayfire27
Ideal Machine Academy The Ideal Machine
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 20:14:00 -
[279] - Quote
I would assume that in low sec if you kill someone you still get a kill right its just in high sec if you get a criminal flag you get the kill right before the death of the enemy ship |

CausticS0da
TEC-NOLOGY Test Friends Please Ignore
69
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 22:41:00 -
[280] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hi there, I see you're new to these forums
Let me show you around I'm still wondering why I get labelled as obnoxious? Right alongside Pipa Porto.
Because you *are* both obnoxious. Pipa has made very little sense in this thread tbh. |

Pipa Porto
1126
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 04:34:00 -
[281] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Really? How is the ganker not constrained by their guaranteed ship loss when the gank the miner? The miner's friends ARE constrained. They can do nothing about it until the suicide ganker takes his 10-million-isk shot on a 100-million-isk ship. He decides when, where, and how **** is going down because he's already calculated the constants (including ship loss). The suicide gank will be on the ganker's terms.
Since that's not an answer to the question I posed, I'll try again: How is the ganker not constrained by their guaranteed ship loss when the gank the miner?
Quote:I've told you already. Learn who the bounty hunters are the same way miners must learn who's hunting them. Learn the ships that will most likely go after you the same way miners must do the same. And I've already told you what ships to look for but you refuse to acknowldege that as well. The miners can use D-Scan to discover who's hunting them.
Blind Transferrable killright hunters are not in any way constrained in their ship choices like suicide gankers are. So you're suggesting "look out for all the ships" as a viable method for figuring out who's hunting you. I suggest "look out for packs of destroyers or T3 BCs" and you counter with "'look out for all the ships' is the same thing". EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |

Pipa Porto
1126
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 04:36:00 -
[282] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Name a current mechanic where you can kill someone in HS without consequence by surprise. Again, you are NOT being attacked by surprise. You generated a killright. EXPECT retribution. If you're so afraid of the boogyman you could always choose NOT to generate a killright. No one is forcing you to gank in hi sec.
I expect retribution. By the person I generated a killright from. Blind Transferrable killrights would gimp the original owner compared to the person who bought them.
By the same argument, Suicide Gank victims aren't attacked by surprise. They undocked in an untanked ship.
Anyway, name another mechanic by which you cannot find out who can legally shoot you in HS. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |

Pipa Porto
1132
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 04:38:00 -
[283] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Pipa and Poetic are my alts, everybody knows that! 
CCP Punkturis, Leader of Team Dissociative Identity Disorder (of my heart). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |

Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords Destiny's Call
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 09:34:00 -
[284] - Quote
Im not feeling like reading more than 2 pages of post. I read the front post and 2 pages after that. What i was missing is: Calculating in the insurance. Otherwise it will be less worth it or a way to generate free isk or even a way to "sell" insured ships If a thing A has a bounty on him/them and character B destroys his ship/pod the following formulas could aply:
Variables: bountyPool = "Bounty-pool that has been placed on a character/corp/alliance" destroyedIsk = "The complete value of the destroyed ISK" bountyKill = "The amount of isk player B recieves for the kill" ratio = "some percentage below 100% that is assigned to the killer" destroyedShip = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed ship" payedInsurance = "Insurance payed to A" destroyedItems = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed items in that ship" destroyedImplants = "Low-End-Market-Worth of the destroyed implants"
This is what the killer gets: destroyedIsk = destroyedShip-payedInsurance+destroyedItems+destroyedImplants bountyKill = ratio*(destroyedIsk) If(bountyKill>bountyPool ){bountyKill=bountyPool} bountyKill should of course never exceed bountyPool
This is the remaining Bounty pool: bountyPool = bountyPool - bountyKill
That would be some easy formula. However, with the above formulas it doesn't matter if u kill the T2-fitted Talos of the most hated player in the universe or just some minor player who happens to have just enough bounty to pay out for the Talos-Kill. ratio could be calculated instead of beeing a fix value. For example: ratio = -0.4 *destroyedIsk / bountyPool +0.7 If(ratio<0.3 ){ratio=0.3}) Less than 30% would be weak (: This formular for example would give a bounty-percentage between 30% and 70%
Easy example: You destroyed a Talos and removed 60mio worth of ISK from the server (The rest dropped/got payed per insurance) That means the bounty will range from 0 to 42mio. 30% would be 18mio and 30% will be paid if the pool is large enough. BountyPool has 10mio -> 10 mio payed (16% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 20mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 30mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 40mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 50mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 60mio -> 18 mio payed (30% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 80mio -> 24 mio payed (40% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 100mio -> 27,6 mio payed (46% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 500mio -> 39,12 mio payed (65% of the destroyed value) BountyPool has 1000mio -> 40,56 mio payed (67% of the destroyed value) |

Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords Destiny's Call
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 09:34:00 -
[285] - Quote
EDIT Place to put further expansions. |

Grinder2210
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 12:59:00 -
[286] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: The current bounty system is made useless because of alt characters. Put a 100M bounty on someone, that someone is going to collect his own bounty with an alt. Blown up and podded in a naked clone flying a rookie ship. Putting a bounty on someone is giving that someone free money.
.
This is not and should be considered a exploit in anyway a person is paying or plexing for that alt account and should be allowed to do anything any other account being payed for can do
you want a working bounty system in this game i only see too ways to do that 1 Remove Jump clones This would be a really really bad thing for eve, but whould fit probelms in the bounty system since someone who pods them self for bountys isnot going to use a implanted clone,
2 Tie the bounty itself to the pod its put on
Yes this would allow players to have many bountys on many pods But what it would do is forse a players to wait till the bounty is higher than the value of his implants Or only do nasty things in a unimplanted pod
I agree with Poetic on one point if you put a bounty on someone your pritty much saying here have some free isk =)
I offer a soloution ... Hair a merc to pod the guy your anoyed with it will cost you a bit more but you actual know what your getting for your money =) |

Shandir
Indigo Archive
172
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 13:06:00 -
[287] - Quote
Question to the devs - which of these does the bounty payout calculation include: Pod, Ship, Modules destroyed, Items destroyed, Implants destroyed, Insurance(as a negative factor).
It really should consider all of them. 1Bn damage due to shiny modules/items/implants destroyed is still 1Bn damage. Ship hulls alone would result in low-payments for winning high-risk fights. |

Morn Hylund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 20:08:00 -
[288] - Quote
What a complete fookover of high-sec industry and weighted toward all the alliances with buttloads of money. You can now target anyone you like and screw up their game permanently.
Way to go CCP. I'll be signing off from this latest stupidity with my multiple accounts as soon as you guys put this piece of sh**T through.
|

Lieam Thellere
Noctis Inc. The CodeX Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 20:14:00 -
[289] - Quote
Morn Hylund wrote:What a complete fookover of high-sec industry and weighted toward all the alliances with buttloads of money. You can now target anyone you like and screw up their game permanently.
Way to go CCP. I'll be signing off from this latest stupidity with my multiple accounts as soon as you guys put this piece of sh**T through.
Can I have your stuff?  |

Morn Hylund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 20:16:00 -
[290] - Quote
The bounty should be placed with the bounty hunter - not the mark. This has been proposed REPEATEDLY. Avoids general exploits and allows visibility on who your enemy is. This piece of sh**t development is just more lazy coding - and yet another idiotic mechanic update. I'm outta here in December.
|

Morn Hylund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 20:16:00 -
[291] - Quote
Lieam Thellere wrote:Morn Hylund wrote:What a complete fookover of high-sec industry and weighted toward all the alliances with buttloads of money. You can now target anyone you like and screw up their game permanently.
Way to go CCP. I'll be signing off from this latest stupidity with my multiple accounts as soon as you guys put this piece of sh**T through.
Can I have your stuff? 
Nope. Lot of other good games out there right now - to be putting up with this kind of sh****t. |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1294
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 20:30:00 -
[292] - Quote
Morn Hylund wrote: I'll be signing off from this latest stupidity with my multiple accounts as soon as you guys put this piece of sh**T through. Why wait? Caldari Militia |

EglantinFinfleur
Pointy Teeth Society Ishukone Drug and Research Utilization Group
6
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 21:50:00 -
[293] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:
Since that's not an answer to the question I posed, I'll try again: How is the ganker not constrained by their guaranteed ship loss when the gank the miner?
The miners can use D-Scan to discover who's hunting them.
Blind Transferrable killright hunters are not in any way constrained in their ship choices like suicide gankers are. So you're suggesting "look out for all the ships" as a viable method for figuring out who's hunting you. I suggest "look out for packs of destroyers or T3 BCs" and you counter with "'look out for all the ships' is the same thing".
You assume that both ganker and gankee should have equal rights, and this doesn't make any sense. In a game where everyone and his brother sports several accounts, forewarning criminals about precisely who is after their hide, will only encourage them to play on their other accounts, waiting for the killright to expire. This is bad for PvP, as you might guess.
However, since this expansion will make the criminal lifestyle a much harder one, they should have access to special benefits, which must be designed in a way that they aren't easily farmable/exploitable with the cooperation of highsec/positive sec status pilots.
Criminals are going to (finally!) become huntable targets, and the bounty hunter/vigilante profession will be worth pursuing (it only took 9 years). However, there must be incentives for them to keep on being criminals. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4840
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 21:55:00 -
[294] - Quote
Morn Hylund wrote:What a complete fookover of high-sec industry and weighted toward all the alliances with buttloads of money. You can now target anyone you like and screw up their game permanently.
Way to go CCP. I'll be signing off from this latest stupidity with my multiple accounts as soon as you guys put this piece of sh**T through.
How is this a "fookover" of hi-sec industry? Are you the 4th or 5th person in this thread to assume that simply putting a bounty on someone makes them a legal target? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Pipa Porto
1154
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 02:06:00 -
[295] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:You assume that both ganker and gankee should have equal rights, and this doesn't make any sense. In a game where everyone and his brother sports several accounts, forewarning criminals about precisely who is after their hide, will only encourage them to play on their other accounts, waiting for the killright to expire. This is bad for PvP, as you might guess.
That's currently how killrights work, and I don't know anyone who stops playing a character for a month to avoid one ship loss (well, other than the miners who used to quit for the month long HAGs of the past, but v0v).
Name for me another mechanic by which someone can legally shoot you without you being able to find out who they are. I'll help. Here are the cases which allow people to shoot you legally in Empire.
- Outlaw Status: Everyone can shoot you, you know everyone can shoot you (you can see your Sec Status). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
- Global Criminal Countdown: Everyone can shoot you, you know everyone can shoot you (Red timer in the Top Left Corner). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
- War Declaration: A Specific Corp can shoot you, you know they can shoot you (Notification Mail, 24hr countdown, "Our Wars" Tab). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
- Aggression Timer: A Specific Corp or Person can shoot you, you know they can shoot you (Yellow Timer in the Top Left Corner). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
- Killright: A Specific Person can Shoot you, you know they can shoot you (list on the character sheet). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
Quote:However, since this expansion will make the criminal lifestyle a much harder one, they should have access to special benefits, which must be designed in a way that they aren't easily farmable/exploitable with the cooperation of highsec/positive sec status pilots.
Criminals are going to (finally!) become huntable targets, and the bounty hunter/vigilante profession will be worth pursuing (it only took 9 years). However, there must be incentives for them to keep on being criminals.
Wat. You do realize what Outlaw status means, right? And you are aware that you can shoot anyone who's got GCC without reprecussion? And that you can go hunt down anyone who ganks you in empire space without consequence, right? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |

Speaker for TheDead
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 02:16:00 -
[296] - Quote
Grinder2210 wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: The current bounty system is made useless because of alt characters. Put a 100M bounty on someone, that someone is going to collect his own bounty with an alt. Blown up and podded in a naked clone flying a rookie ship. Putting a bounty on someone is giving that someone free money.
.
This is not and should be considered a exploit in anyway a person is paying or plexing for that alt account and should be allowed to do anything any other account being payed for can do you want a working bounty system in this game i only see too ways to do that 1 Remove Jump clones This would be a really really bad thing for eve, but whould fit probelms in the bounty system since someone who pods them self for bountys isnot going to use a implanted clone, 2 Tie the bounty itself to the pod its put on Yes this would allow players to have many bountys on many pods But what it would do is forse a players to wait till the bounty is higher than the value of his implants Or only do nasty things in a unimplanted pod I agree with Poetic on one point if you put a bounty on someone your pritty much saying here have some free isk =) I offer a soloution ... Hair a merc to pod the guy your anoyed with it will cost you a bit more but you actual know what your getting for your money =)
Do you even understand the term "Exploit"?
Misusing game mechanics for personal gain, like podding yourself for your own bounty, is the very definition of "Exploit".......
|

EglantinFinfleur
Pointy Teeth Society Ishukone Drug and Research Utilization Group
7
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 03:10:00 -
[297] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:That's currently how killrights work, and I don't know anyone who stops playing a character for a month to avoid one ship loss (well, other than the miners who used to quit for the month long HAGs of the past, but v0v). Name for me another mechanic by which someone can legally shoot you without you being able to find out who they are. I'll help. Here are the cases which allow people to shoot you legally in Empire.
- Outlaw Status: Everyone can shoot you, you know everyone can shoot you (you can see your Sec Status). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
- Global Criminal Countdown: Everyone can shoot you, you know everyone can shoot you (Red timer in the Top Left Corner). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
- War Declaration: A Specific Corp can shoot you, you know they can shoot you (Notification Mail, 24hr countdown, "Our Wars" Tab). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
- Aggression Timer: A Specific Corp or Person can shoot you, you know they can shoot you (Yellow Timer in the Top Left Corner). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
- Killright: A Specific Person can Shoot you, you know they can shoot you (list on the character sheet). Ergo, you know who can shoot you.
Wat. You do realize what Outlaw status means, right? And you are aware that you can shoot anyone who's got GCC without reprecussion? And that you can go hunt down anyone who ganks you in empire space without consequence, right?
People, for now, don't stop playing with their gankers characters because killrights aren't transferable. When they are, expect griefbears to dock and wait for those to expire, if they witness said killrights being often transferred.
This is why they shouldn't be aware of those transfers.
What's your other point? I merely wrote that to offset this disadvantage, criminals doing good crime should get perks (gear or whatever) that are not easily farmable with alts/positive sec status friends (gear or whatever).
It's like you're really dense. Are you high? |

Jaison Savrin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
43
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 03:12:00 -
[298] - Quote
I love how some of the people in here are afraid of getting caught with their pants down.
When someone is ganked there are certain people who are claiming that they should have realized it was going to happen. I disagree. As someone who often uses a Freighter on his alt let me tell you that it isn't as simple as some people are trying to claim. Yea, I am careful about how much I keep in my cargo and I have never been ganked. However, when you jump into a system with 100s or even 1000s of people in it you can't go "Oh no! There are 50 people on the gate in various ships that may or may not be fitted for high alpha!" Even with a scout, which I have used on occasions when I really had a lot to move, there is no way to see a gank coming 100% for sure. There may or may not be hints but then again if your freighter is getting bumped for 10 minutes while they get the numbers they need chances are there was 0 warning.
If you're a highsec ganker and you're afraid of getting ganked all I have to say to you is "suck it up buttercup." I think that changes to killrights are very interesting. Whether the person knows their killrights have changed hands or not it will add an interesting dynamic to ganking.
Ganking is 0 risk as it is now in most instances. A ganker chooses where, when and how they lose their ship. They control their sec status. They control almost all of the variables in some cases. Yes, maybe the miner tanked but you know that with a scan don't you? Yes, the freighter may have too much in its hold. Then again, sometimes you need to move expensive stuff in a short amount of time. That is a risk a freighter pilot takes. The gankers who got him picked the when, where and how. That isn't risk; that is acceptable losses. Stop claiming concord is part of the risk. Concord goes into the cost-benefit thought process of whether to gank or not.
Just in case you didn't read all that. To gankers I say "suck it up buttercup." |

Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
340
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 03:16:00 -
[299] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:lanyaie wrote: Hey CCP punkturis I really like you and would like to know something about you What is your favorite movie for example?
princess bride and elf!
I can't recall elf, but I really did like Princess Bride when I first saw it. Hugely funny then, but I think I'd be too picky to really appreciate it now that it's old. Sadly, old movies are lost on me thanks to how spoiled we all are with new effects, cgi, and all the other stuff. If it doesn't have superb acting and has outdated cinematics, it's not really worth it imo. 
Good memories though. I think I laughed all the way through, or nearly so. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1378
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 03:16:00 -
[300] - Quote
Jaison Savrin wrote:I love how some of the people in here are afraid of getting caught with their pants down.
When someone is ganked there are certain people who are claiming that they should have realized it was going to happen. I disagree. As someone who often uses a Freighter on his alt let me tell you that it isn't as simple as some people are trying to claim. Yea, I am careful about how much I keep in my cargo and I have never been ganked. However, when you jump into a system with 100s or even 1000s of people in it you can't go "Oh no! There are 50 people on the gate in various ships that may or may not be fitted for high alpha!" Even with a scout, which I have used on occasions when I really had a lot to move, there is no way to see a gank coming 100% for sure. There may or may not be hints but then again if your freighter is getting bumped for 10 minutes while they get the numbers they need chances are there was 0 warning.
If you're a highsec ganker and you're afraid of getting ganked all I have to say to you is "suck it up buttercup." I think that changes to killrights are very interesting. Whether the person knows their killrights have changed hands or not it will add an interesting dynamic to ganking.
Ganking is 0 risk as it is now in most instances. A ganker chooses where, when and how they lose their ship. They control their sec status. They control almost all of the variables in some cases. Yes, maybe the miner tanked but you know that with a scan don't you? Yes, the freighter may have too much in its hold. Then again, sometimes you need to move expensive stuff in a short amount of time. That is a risk a freighter pilot takes. The gankers who got him picked the when, where and how. That isn't risk; that is acceptable losses. Stop claiming concord is part of the risk. Concord goes into the cost-benefit thought process of whether to gank or not.
Just in case you didn't read all that. To gankers I say "suck it up buttercup." You mean like we've had to do for every major change to high-sec and/or mining, ever? Including the release of the Tier 3's, due to the removal of insurance?
We already were sucking it up, Buttercup. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |