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Retribution's New Bounty System

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 29 post(s)
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1242	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:29:00 - [1] - Quote from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/09/retribution-bounties.html I've yet to see a bounty-like system implemented in any MMO that wasn't made pointless via exploits. I hold out little hope that CCP is going to be able to solve this problem, where so many others have failed. But I'm interested in seeing them try, nonetheless. I would like to see them succeed. They do seem committed to success. The current bounty system is made useless because of alt characters. Put a 100M bounty on someone, that someone is going to collect his own bounty with an alt. Blown up and podded in a naked clone flying a rookie ship. Putting a bounty on someone is giving that someone free money. Every bounty system I've seen is made moot due to alts. There's little in the way of information yet on CCP's re-implementation of bounties. And nothing yet from the CSM, other than to confirm that this is the team their working with directly, the stakeholder pilot project. A risky project to hang your hat from, for sure. CSM7 may sink or swim depending on how solid or riddled with holes the new bounty program turns out to be. Being a stakeholder means having had direct influence on the design and development of this new mechanic. So if bounties turn out to be awesome, CSM will deserve some measure of credit along with CCP. If it turns out to be a dud, CSM will deserve ridicule and scorn in equal measure to CCP. (If the new mechanic does turn out to be a failure, I hope that the CSM will not turn on CCP in an attempt to save their own skins, that they'll cowboy-up and accept their portion of responsibility.) So, the EVE London Meet was this weekend. A few devs attended. And during the drunken festivities a couple tidbits about the new Retribution expansion (the winter expansion) made their way to news sources. The following concerns bounties: "Redoing bounties: Instead of the current system, put a bounty on anyone, corp or alliance. On ships as well as pods. A percentage calculation is involved." A tad vague, but just enough, perhaps, to build a bit of a picture on what we should expect bounties to be. You'll be able to set bounties on characters. You'll be able to set bounties on the members of corporations. Bounties on the members of alliances. You'll be able to set bounties on ships types (maybe even ship classes). You'll be able to set bounties on pods. Unlike the current system, where if you pod a specific character, you collect the entire bounty, in the new system the bounty is a pool of ISK. When you meet the bounty requirements, you pull an amount of ISK equal to a percentage of the kill. That's how I'm reading this new system. (I could be way off base.) For instance, you set a 5B ISK bounty on all Hulks. If anyone kills a Hulk, they get some percentage of the kill's value. Let's say that percentage is 50%. So if the Hulk that is killed is worth 250M ISK, the killer would collect 125M ISK. The bounty pool of 5B would be reduced by that 125M ISK. This seems to solve the alt problem. Someone can use an alt to kill the character with the bounty on its head, but the alt would never collect more than what the kill was worth. There's no longer any profit to be made. There may still be holes in the mechanic to be found. If there are, certainly Goonswarm will be one of the first organizations to take advantage of them (see faction warfare.) The new bounty system looks to be promising, at any rate. And if it ends up being what we all hope, a very fine addition to EVE Online will it be. Caldari Militia
Karl Hobb Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium 631	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:32:00 - [2] - Quote I hope a dev blog comes out about this soon so we're not innundated by these threads. Nothing Found
CaptainFalcon07 Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 22	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:34:00 - [3] - Quote This is a solution that would work. There would simply be no way for the bounty to make any profit or cash out, if he has to lose ships and modules and gain only 50% of it back.
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1242	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:35:00 - [4] - Quote Karl Hobb wrote: I hope a dev blog comes out about this soon so we're not innundated by these threads. I will be proven (mostly) correct! Caldari Militia
baltec1 Bat Country 2306	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:37:00 - [5] - Quote SWG (pre-nge) had a great bounty hunter system.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2411	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:39:00 - [6] - Quote OP's shirt is too small "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com
Milton Middleson Rifterlings Damu'Khonde 110	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:40:00 - [7] - Quote It would be nice if you could restrict who has access to the bounties you set (if you want to set up an internal corp bounty system), or in some way share kill rights as part of the bounty system (setting a bounty on that guy who ganked you won't do much good if nobody can shoot him because highsec).
Bart Starr Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services 78	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:41:00 - [8] - Quote I vote for: Here comes the new bounty system, just like the old bounty system.
Selinate 1022	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:41:00 - [9] - Quote Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote: OP's shirt is too small Also, scoliosis.
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1242	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:42:00 - [10] - Quote Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote: OP's shirt is too small I didn't read the tag. Was supposed to hang it to dry. Caldari Militia
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1242	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:43:00 - [11] - Quote Selinate wrote: Also, scoliosis. No. One boob is bigger than the other, which shifts my weight. Caldari Militia
Selinate 1022	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:51:00 - [12] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: Selinate wrote: Also, scoliosis. No. One boob is bigger than the other, which shifts my weight. You'll do well here.
Pipa Porto 1087	Posted - 2012.10.01 00:56:00 - [13] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: This seems to solve the alt problem. Someone can use an alt to kill the character with the bounty on its head, but the alt would never collect more than what the kill was worth. There's no longer any profit to be made. Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1243	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:00:00 - [14] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX. Sure, over a three month time span. And assuming that 50 other people don't get the same idea, turning those useless items into useful items. Caldari Militia
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 3002	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:00:00 - [15] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: This seems to solve the alt problem. Someone can use an alt to kill the character with the bounty on its head, but the alt would never collect more than what the kill was worth. There's no longer any profit to be made. Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX. Yeah, good luck with that ;) CCP has changed quite a few things behind the scenes in the wake of the FW exploit, in order to specifically prevent that type of manipulation. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
Pipa Porto 1087	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:05:00 - [16] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: This seems to solve the alt problem. Someone can use an alt to kill the character with the bounty on its head, but the alt would never collect more than what the kill was worth. There's no longer any profit to be made. Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX. Yeah, good luck with that ;) CCP has changed quite a few things behind the scenes in the wake of the FW exploit, in order to specifically prevent that type of manipulation. So long as Eve's market value estimation takes trades into account and there are useless items, it will be possible to manipulate it. Basing payments on that market value estimation incentivises that manipulation. Care to tell us more about how you want to disenfranchise voters who's views you disagree with? It's funny how you've run screaming away from the defining issue of the CSM 7. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 3003	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:11:00 - [17] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: This seems to solve the alt problem. Someone can use an alt to kill the character with the bounty on its head, but the alt would never collect more than what the kill was worth. There's no longer any profit to be made. Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX. Yeah, good luck with that ;) CCP has changed quite a few things behind the scenes in the wake of the FW exploit, in order to specifically prevent that type of manipulation. So long as Eve's market value estimation takes trades into account and there are useless items, it will be possible to manipulate it. Basing payments on that market value estimation incentivises that manipulation. Care to tell us more about how you want to disenfranchise voters who's views you disagree with? It's funny how you've run screaming away from the defining issue of the CSM 7. I really don't care about voting reform. That's between the players and CCP Xhagen to work out, and CCP Xhagen has already mentioned that Trebor's proposal is dead on arrival. You're welcome to continue making an issue out of it, but I won't be. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
Pipa Porto 1087	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:24:00 - [18] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: I really don't care about voting reform. That's between the players and CCP Xhagen to work out, and CCP Xhagen has already mentioned that Trebor's proposal is dead on arrival. You're welcome to continue making an issue out of it, but I won't be. DOA or not, you defended it. Why do you want to disenfranchise voters who disagree with you? Anyway, the other big problem with bounties based on destroyed value is that they don't change behavior in the individual case. In Lowsec and Nullsec, the guy with the bounty is going to die or not for reasons totally unrelated to the bounty on his head. In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking, but now you have to calculate the dropped value plus the percentage on the destroyed value all while deciding to suicide gank someone who's likely in a fast ship. In none of these cases is having a high total bounty at all dangerous (because each person who kills you only gets a small bounty). The possibility of fixed bounties on ship hulls and corp members are more useful. Automating the paying your corpmates (or everyone) to gank Hulks or paying your corpmates to kill your rivals and such is potentially very useful. But that's fundamentally similar to the current system. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1244	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:48:00 - [19] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: I really don't care about voting reform. That's between the players and CCP Xhagen to work out, and CCP Xhagen has already mentioned that Trebor's proposal is dead on arrival. You're welcome to continue making an issue out of it, but I won't be. Anyway, the other big problem with bounties based on destroyed value is that they don't change behavior in the individual case. In Lowsec and Nullsec, the guy with the bounty is going to die or not for reasons totally unrelated to the bounty on his head. In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking, but now you have to calculate the dropped value plus the percentage on the destroyed value all while deciding to suicide gank someone who's likely in a fast ship. In none of these cases is having a high total bounty at all dangerous (because each person who kills you only gets a small bounty). Have at it. If it's exploitable, exploit it. Caldari Militia
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 3003	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:51:00 - [20] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking It's safe to say this is a major assumption at this point. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2414	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:52:00 - [21] - Quote Selinate wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: Selinate wrote: Also, scoliosis. No. One boob is bigger than the other, which shifts my weight. You'll do well here. I agree, welcome "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com
Pipa Porto 1089	Posted - 2012.10.01 01:56:00 - [22] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking It's safe to say this is a major assumption at this point. Aren't you clever. Why do you want to disenfranchise voters? How is having a high bounty any more dangerous for you than having a low one, as advertised, in a proportional system? The payout's the same. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
None ofthe Above 334	Posted - 2012.10.01 02:08:00 - [23] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking It's safe to say this is a major assumption at this point. Aren't you clever. Why do you want to disenfranchise voters? How is having a high bounty any more dangerous for you than having a low one, as advertised, in a proportional system? The payout's the same. This is off topic and garbage to boot. I'll call out the CSM when warranted, and do frequently, but this is ridiculous. Not much to talk about on topic though I suppose, since there is little to go on besides speculation. EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
Inquisitor Kitchner Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes 102	Posted - 2012.10.01 02:14:00 - [24] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking It's safe to say this is a major assumption at this point. Aren't you clever. Why do you want to disenfranchise voters? How is having a high bounty any more dangerous for you than having a low one, as advertised, in a proportional system? The payout's the same. If you tend to sly a ship worth 100 mil and the payout is 50% of ship value, and I place a 50mil bounty, you get killed once, some guy gets the bounty and then you're left alone. If I place a 500 mil bounty that guy can kill you ten times and get the same reward. Interestingly you could use this as a method to "pay" your frontline troopers in sov warefare. Place a 10bil bounty on the enemy and let your soldiers get paid for what they kill. Personally I think this is very interesting. It is less of a "I'll pay you to kill this guy" bounty and more "I want you to do X amount of fiscal damage to this person". If we stick with the 50% figure which I made up a 500mil bounty encourages people to kill 1bil worth of your ships.
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 1190	Posted - 2012.10.01 02:18:00 - [25] - Quote I have great concern the past will catch up with me. I'll say that... Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦ GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Pipa Porto 1090	Posted - 2012.10.01 02:21:00 - [26] - Quote Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking It's safe to say this is a major assumption at this point. Aren't you clever. Why do you want to disenfranchise voters? How is having a high bounty any more dangerous for you than having a low one, as advertised, in a proportional system? The payout's the same. If you tend to sly a ship worth 100 mil and the payout is 50% of ship value, and I place a 50mil bounty, you get killed once, some guy gets the bounty and then you're left alone. If I place a 500 mil bounty that guy can kill you ten times and get the same reward. Interestingly you could use this as a method to "pay" your frontline troopers in sov warefare. Place a 10bil bounty on the enemy and let your soldiers get paid for what they kill. Personally I think this is very interesting. It is less of a "I'll pay you to kill this guy" bounty and more "I want you to do X amount of fiscal damage to this person". If we stick with the 50% figure which I made up a 500mil bounty encourages people to kill 1bil worth of your ships. That's length of danger, not amount. Given 2 100m ships, one with a 5b bounty and one with a 50m bounty, which do you shoot? You shoot them in the same order you would otherwise shoot them. Nobody's going to hunt down the guy with a 5b bounty any more than they hunt down the guy with the 50m bounty because the payout is the same. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
Liafcipe9000 Smeghead Empire 53	Posted - 2012.10.01 02:28:00 - [27] - Quote http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter/ "There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify" I discussed this with a friend of mine and from what I see this new bounty system can be abused. I hope I'm wrong and some actions and/or limitations will take place to prevent such abuse.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 3011	Posted - 2012.10.01 02:30:00 - [28] - Quote Liafcipe9000 wrote: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter/ "There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify" I discussed this with a friend of mine and from what I see this new bounty system can be abused. I hope I'm wrong and some actions and/or limitations will take place to prevent such abuse. Care to elaborate?? This is rather vague... Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
Pipa Porto 1091	Posted - 2012.10.01 02:42:00 - [29] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Liafcipe9000 wrote: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter/ "There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify" I discussed this with a friend of mine and from what I see this new bounty system can be abused. I hope I'm wrong and some actions and/or limitations will take place to prevent such abuse. Care to elaborate?? This is rather vague... I would assume that he considers putting bounties on Hulks and such "abuse." EvE: Everyone vs Everyone -RubyPorto
Tinja Soikutsu Orbital Horizons University GALACTIC UNI0N 41	Posted - 2012.10.01 02:44:00 - [30] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Liafcipe9000 wrote: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter/ "There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify" I discussed this with a friend of mine and from what I see this new bounty system can be abused. I hope I'm wrong and some actions and/or limitations will take place to prevent such abuse. Care to elaborate?? This is rather vague... I would assume that he considers putting bounties on Hulks and such "abuse." Well that's one way to possibly deal with mining bots.

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