You mean like we've had to do for every major change to high-sec and/or mining, ever? Including the release of the Tier 3's, due to the removal of insurance?

We already were sucking it up, Buttercup.

No, you're whining on the forums.


You don't get insurance for losing your ship to an illegal act? Makes sense to me.

Miners get ships that have viable tanks vs new and upgraded ships (T3 BCs and Buffed Destroyers). That was needed. ISK isn't a tank but even a tanked hulk was paper thin before the buff. Now y'all just have to bring friends to be successful.

CW2 makes it so your precious PvP is less about picking on people (stupid or not) and more about actually risking retaliation? Awesome, needed to happen.

Kill Rights can be transferred from indy character to PvP character or to someone you pay to deal with it for you? That seems logical.

All it is doing is giving people more tools to deal with the advantages you have over them.

Yes, suck it up.

Let me ask you, how does it feel to be mollycoddled and henpecked at the same time?

Lol, look at my corp history. I lived in 0.0 for the past few months and just left. As soon as I get my invite to the corp I am joining I'll be in a WH. Just because I think these changes are good doesn't mean I am a highsec dweller.

You'll do well here.

Then just imagine what it must feel like for them, then.

How humiliating!

You're not making any sense. I think the dreaded carebears will enjoy this new more fair highsec. The only people who don't like it are the people who are gaming the current system to their advantage.


Edit because of other person's edit: I think there are less bots in highsec than some people like to go on about. There are too many but every miner who doesn't want to chat with you in local isn't a botter.

CCP confirmed at fanfest that the majority of bots operate in Caldari High-sec space.

That's a fact. How many you think we think there might be compared to this metric is irrelevant.

So tell me who's gaming the current system, please.

I'd say both. Botters are bad. Easy mode ganking is bad. Both are bad.


Did they differentiate between miner and trading bots? I am not trying to pick you apart. I am honestly curious.


Either way I think the risk in ganking is too easily managed. The ganker sets the when and how without any retaliation that they didn't also calculate in. Concord is predictable and not a risk or variable. Their biggest risk is not bringing enough alpha which is also a manageable variable by scanning to predict the other person's tank or knowing how much HP a freighter might have.

They most certainly did. Miners got a buff, trading bots didn't.

I hope that helps clear up some perspective on that question.

Not what I was asking but sure. I'll bite.

Mining bots didn't benefit from the barge changes as they relate to ganking. The bots are more perfect than humans at avoiding ganks. They have a perfect attention span and a perfect handle on local/d-scan.

Also, are you arguing that the game should stagnate at the fear of making botting easier? Human players also benefited from the mining barge/exhumer changes. They were the ones that benefited the most from those changes. They are the ones that will benefit from these changes. Ganking will still be possible it will just have variables that are outside the gankers control.

In the system as it exists now where is the non-controlled risk to gankers?

Where is the surprise gate camp?

Where is the "oops they brought our fleet comp's perfect counter," that exists in PvP?

Where is the "they brought more people," that also exists in PvP?

Where are the unpredictable variables in highsec suicide ganking in its current state?

There are no unpredictable variables. In contests between miners and gankers, the ganker loses every time now, even if the target drops. That's because there's no way with the current mechanics to kill miners efficiently when they are displaying highly bot-like ignorant behavior by sitting still while mining instead of mining aligned and warping out at the first sign of ships on grid.

High-sec mining bots don't look for new arrivals in local because they are surrounded by CONCORD and operating the most overpowered mining equipment we've ever seen in Eve in the form of the new Mack.

Inferring they do otherwise is disingenuous when they can ignore almost any threat with overwhelming confidence now?

The highlighted part is a different argument. Who says ganking miners should be efficient? I believe it was CCP Soundwave that said ganking isn't supposed to be about profit. I don't remember where exactly.

Either way the variable is how many ships does it take to kill a Mackinaw? That is predictable. I do not know the answer as it is not a part of the game I participate in.

If you want to kill a Mack you can predict the exact force needed and the cost of that force with much more accuracy than any other "PvP" situation in the game. Your variable is essentially limited to "do they warp away?" If they do it is 0 cost to the ganker unless somehow they get their ship destroyed due to low sec status which is also something he/she alone controls. They can not "ignore" any threat. I assure you that if 50 thrashers hits grid and targets them it is a threat they couldn't afford to ignore whether they do or not. I also assure you that if I logged into my trade alt and looked at Jita I could give you an exact cost for those 50 thrashers. All I would need is a ganking fit.

Not if they pay the least bit of attention, or change the game in any way by say, tanking their Mackinaw.

I've read this whole discussion between Malcanis and Pipa and I have come to the conclusion that Mrs. Pipa is a big fat scaredycat.

I've tried suicide ganking with Sard Caid once a while back, before the mining barge EHP buff.

I fail to see how the calculated risk of loosing a ship costing 2-3m to kill a ship that costs 100 times more is somehow an equivalent exchange (loosing a ship) that should reward the gankers the ability to know who will bring the Retribution let alone the ability to potentially having the first shot again.

The only thing you are entitled to in this game is the Undock Button and the risk that comes with it.

All of the arguments that Pipa has made regarding the viewpoints of ganker vs gankee(bounty hunter) are moot. The funniest thing is that in reality Pipa is afraid of being put in (essentially) the same situation as the harmless highsec miner waiting to be ganked. HTFU.

I think transferable/sellable killrights would make the game much more interesting and fun for all parties involved in a suicide gank.

I'm going to put bounties on empire mining corps. For mining ships. Just cuz.

The only thing you are entitled to in this game is the Undock Button and the risk that comes with it.

All of the arguments that Pipa has made regarding the viewpoints of ganker vs gankee(bounty hunter) are moot. The funniest thing is that in reality Pipa is afraid of being put in (essentially) the same situation as the harmless highsec miner waiting to be ganked. HTFU.

I think transferable/sellable killrights would make the game much more interesting and fun for all parties involved in a suicide gank.

Good call. Can we put bounties on NPC Corps, too?

How about bounties on Mackinaws?

I'd buy that for a dollar.

AFAIK: You can put bounties on anyone, this will make things interesting. Anyone with ISK can turn another player or groups of players into juicier targets to be attacked by wardec, suicide gank or maybe even RETRIBUTION (transferable killrights.)

EDIT:
Though I think you would have to be more selective with who you put bounties on than just generalizing Mackinaws. (I'm guessing you would gain from them being exploded in some way. Big pile of minerals to inflate the price of? Large collection of Mackinaw bpcs or even a bpo? )

People, for now, don't stop playing with their gankers characters because killrights aren't transferable. When they are, expect griefbears to dock and wait for those to expire, if they witness said killrights being often transferred.

This is why they shouldn't be aware of those transfers.

What's your other point? I want to be able to shoot at leisure griefbears and gatecampers that arent -5.0, and unwholesome characters with a sheen of respectability, who have a bounty on their head due to their bad behavior.
This is not possible as of now.

It's like you're really dense. Are you high?

Killrights could become very lucrative too. I would pay a lot for certain killrights

Good call. Can we put bounties on NPC Corps, too?

How about bounties on Mackinaws?

I'd buy that for a dollar.

I've read this whole discussion between Malcanis and Pipa and I have come to the conclusion that Mrs. Pipa is a big fat scaredycat.

I've tried suicide ganking with Sard Caid once a while back, before the mining barge EHP buff.

I fail to see how the calculated risk of loosing a ship costing 2-3m to kill a ship that costs 100 times more is somehow an equivalent exchange (loosing a ship) that should reward the gankers the ability to know who will bring the Retribution let alone the ability to potentially having the first shot again.

The only thing you are entitled to in this game is the Undock Button and the risk that comes with it.

All of the arguments that Pipa has made regarding the viewpoints of ganker vs gankee(bounty hunter) are moot. The funniest thing is that in reality Pipa is afraid of being put in (essentially) the same situation as the harmless highsec miner waiting to be ganked. HTFU.

I think transferable/sellable killrights would make the game much more interesting and fun for all parties involved in a suicide gank.

So... when does CONCORD start deputizing its own "militia?"

The idea is that you'll be able to put a bounty on anyone you like. But merely putting a bounty on someone won't mean that you can freely attack them; they still have to have -5 sec status, a GCC, a wardec, or an active killright which you have acquired for you to attack them without CONCORD interference.

Still waiting for whatsisname on the last page to explain how this "fooks over" hi-sec industrialists.

But bounties on Mackinaws could make them profitable to gank again.

Just saying.