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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9669
   |
Posted - 2012.10.01 10:20:00 -
[91] - Quote
I suppose a lot of that will also depend on who can buy those killrights. The bounty changes already sound like they're (slowly) introducing the whole concept of legal persons in EVE and giving them some of the same properties as individuals. Now imagine what would happen if a killright became a corp propertyGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
4723
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Posted - 2012.10.01 11:05:00 -
[92] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I suppose a lot of that will also depend on who can buy those killrights. The bounty changes already sound like they're (slowly) introducing the whole concept of legal persons in EVE and giving them some of the same properties as individuals. Now imagine what would happen if a killright became a corp propertyGǪ
Corporations are people, my friend!
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1014
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Posted - 2012.10.01 15:15:00 -
[93] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:This seems to solve the alt problem. Someone can use an alt to kill the character with the bounty on its head, but the alt would never collect more than what the kill was worth. There's no longer any profit to be made. Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX.
What if they use just the hull value, and base the hull value on the mineral market value? Like insurance calculations? If the current insurance system could be manipulated, it would have been by now.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1748
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Posted - 2012.10.01 17:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
Oh gee...I wonder where CCP got this idea from...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=33413&p=5
Unknown why this thread was ever locked.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread
The one I ported over to the Assembly Hall...also locked for unknown reasons.
I am sure it wasn't a new idea by any means but this one by Bienator II is the earliest I have seen of this particular idea.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9675
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 18:25:00 -
[95] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Unknown why this thread was ever locked. 2012.05.26. So not particularly unknown.
Quote:The one I ported over to the Assembly Hall...also locked for unknown reasons. 2012.04.19. So for the same known reason.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
De'Veldrin
NerdHerd
En Garde
390
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Posted - 2012.10.01 18:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Interestingly you could use this as a method to "pay" your frontline troopers in sov warefare. Place a 10bil bounty on the enemy and let your soldiers get paid for what they kill.
Now this is an idea I like.
Unsub or don't.-á I don't care what your reasons are, and neither does anyone else.-á Just click the button and go away - or don't. |
Lunaleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Red Alliance
15
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Posted - 2012.10.01 18:43:00 -
[97] - Quote
I'm really hoping bounty hunting requires some significant skill training so players can continue to have choices that define their character and gameplay. Skill training + the % payout based on value of ship/mods destroyed, should help prevent abuse of the system.
I'm excited that CCP are finally addressing Bounty Hunting. It's something a lot of players have wanted for a long time. And if CSM were the ones that convinced CCP to do bounty hunting in lieu of the player-to-player contract system CCP were originally going to do according to the CSM notes....they deserve a lot of credit because it's a much better choice for this expansion. Combined with crimewatch and the second wave of FW fixes, that's a pretty good expansion lineup. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
97
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Posted - 2012.10.01 18:58:00 -
[98] - Quote
The reason is that the developers are trying to rely on a system of mechanical rules that are necessarily based on assumptions. This type of exploitation is no different than someone collecting money from insurance fraud.
Insurance is totally legal and the business follows defined rules based on necessary assumptions. However, when the fraudster causes an accident on purpose to collect on the payout their claim is scrutinized. In real life we have human beings looking at it and making a qualified judgment about the fairness of representing one thing to get the money but then doing another. This is the entire point of the claims process and judicial systems, an institution that ALL MMOs lack. If the real life insurance claims process was subject to simple mechanical loss/payout rules it would be rife with scamming as well.
To properly stop it, and other forms of exploits, MMO developers need to stop thinking that their only job is to program a game and start thinking that they are providing a service for the benefit of all users. They need a department that has employees whose job it is to enforce policy in a discrete and knowledgeable way. |
5n4keyes
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
51
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Posted - 2012.10.01 20:40:00 -
[99] - Quote
I was lucky enougn to be at the meet in London where Retribution was announced, and was lucky enough to chat to some devs about this.
From what I understand, you can add a bounty to anyone, the bounty then goes into a collective pot. So lets say, we put money on CCP Soundwave, say 100m.
If CCP Soundwave was say, in a battleship, and was suicide ganked, had a good fight in 0.0 or a really bad time in a 1000v1000 fleet fight, when he dies a percentage of the ships value is taken from the Pot and given to the killer.
So killing CCP Soundwave in his battleship might get you say 10-20m. the pot would then drop to 90-80m.
This means the system cant really be exploited, as in order to get money from the pot you would need to spend 5 to 10 times that which your getting out. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
166
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Posted - 2012.10.01 20:47:00 -
[100] - Quote
Could it be...... after all these years..... CCP is finally going to fix the broken bounty system?!
I'm starting to get very excited!
I knew keeping a list of all my most hated enemies would pay off in the end!  |
Reticle
Sight Picture
14
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Posted - 2012.10.01 21:17:00 -
[101] - Quote
The more I think about this new system, the more potential it looks like it has.
It indirectly deals with the issue of players corp hopping to avoid war decs. If you want someone bad enough, put a bounty on him directly.
In high sec you could put a bounty out that is equal to or greater than the cost of a suicide gank. It will provide an interesting tool to miners who want to grief the compettion. A disposable gank squad of 2 week old destroyer pilots is pretty darn cheap; just do the math for a mack kill and price the bounty accordingly. At the very least the gank could be free for the gankers, minus the sec status.
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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1257
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Posted - 2012.10.01 21:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
Reticle wrote:The more I think about this new system, the more potential it looks like it has.
It indirectly deals with the issue of players corp hopping to avoid war decs. If you want someone bad enough, put a bounty on him directly.
In high sec you could put a bounty out that is equal to or greater than the cost of a suicide gank. It will provide an interesting tool to miners who want to grief the compettion. A disposable gank squad of 2 week old destroyer pilots is pretty darn cheap; just do the math for a mack kill and price the bounty accordingly. At the very least the gank could be free for the gankers, minus the sec status. Remember, bounties don't negate CONCORD. Depending on the payout percentage, it might still be uneconomical to gank Mackinaws, thus griefing the competition never comes to pass.
Caldari Militia |
snake pies
No Squad Best Squad
64
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Posted - 2012.10.01 21:48:00 -
[103] - Quote
bounty can only be set on someone who killed you
setting bounty allows you to kill him while having 1 other person in fleet
successful kill gives your bounty back to the person in fleet with you
solved
this opens up a social dynamic of finding a capable mercenary to be your wingman |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
55
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Posted - 2012.10.01 23:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
well, we still don't really know how the new bounty system will work with CONCORD so there's still a gap that needs to be filled here. forcing someone else to be open to attack by anyone anywhere, even in highsec, has a major downside to it so I doubt that that would be the way it'll work.
selling killrights means you'll have to actually have those killrights in the first place, so there must be a mechanic that will grant you killrights on a "bad guy" to begin with.
to CCP I say, always review the changes to come - but at least make it so that people get notified when someone places a bounty on them so they'll know who to thank for it!  |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp
Legion of xXDEATHXx
90
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Posted - 2012.10.02 00:04:00 -
[105] - Quote
What could be nice is one could hold a lottery like competition.
The bounty payer puts up a substantial bounty reward with requisite conditions.
Everyone that wants to have a chance at collecting bounty on a target pays a little up front.
The bounty payer waits until there is enough players participating so that he/she can make a little profit off the deal.
This could also be a preset number of players.
Once their is enough participants a countdown begins as to when the bounty will be payable.
Once the countdown is finished participants can pursue the target and collect upon meeting the requisite conditions of the payable bounty.
I'm not saying this will become a regular thing, just that it needs to be possible to do something like this or similar.
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Singeabooty Raj
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
326
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Posted - 2012.10.02 00:28:00 -
[106] - Quote
"After Retribution, being the most wanted player in EVE will no longer be a vanity a player bestows upon himself but a constant threat to his survival".
^ That is a ccp quote
The reality is since its already known that post expansion a bounty can be put on any player regardless of sec status (unless ccp plan on imposing docking restrictions on those of any sec with bounty on them) then I fail to see how having a high bounty changes in any way from the current system ?
A player with a bounty docked is safe and since ccp are next expansion allowing tom **** and harry to potentially bounty anybody then i can only assume that the tears would be magnificent if having a bounty interefered with docking in high sec.
^ Given this nothing will change.
Black Man with Goggles |
Mike Adoulin
Trans-Aerospace Industries
19
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Posted - 2012.10.02 02:54:00 -
[107] - Quote
I look forward to receiving a multi-million ISK bounty from our Goon and TEST overlords.
You know this is going to happen.
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Empress Shadowfox Ordo
The Shadowfox Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.10.02 02:59:00 -
[108] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:As an old eve player, about to hit year 9, all i can say is, if we can;t transfer kill rights, then this new system is not much of an improvement. I can see how if say an alliances hires pl and pays them, lets go with 50B to kill alliance X, pl can place 30B of that 50 as a bounty on alliance X and have there members just reek havoc. This part i like. I also have no issues with GS placing a bounty on hulks for a hulkageedon type of event. As i'm sure they do this manually anyway. However, when i first started playing eve i was an anti pirate that would help hunt down pirates in the Derelik region (a long time ago) and was very irritated that after a few kills i would have a grind back sec to get to jita to buy stuff, or would have to be sure i stayed away from gates and things so as not to die with flagged. This basically turned me completely away from bounty hunting. As there was no real incentive to go after anyone if i would either just get concorded in hs, or have to deal with sec loss, or deal with guns.
The point is, the only way bounty hunting will ever be a viable profession is if its treated as such. Either by allowing people to get some sort of bounty hunting license, so concord looks the other way in hs for legit Bounty kills, or the ability for me to sell my kill rights to people who will be interested in killing for profit, If you can;t hint someone anywhere, without at least no sec hit, then there is not much point.
just my two isk
This is the smartest thing I read all night. For Bounty hunting to really be a profession, then it has to be something that Concord won't punish people for. Perhaps there will be some sort of Bounty Hunters corp, or Alliance, somewhat like FW. They are allowed to kill any person with a bounty, but only them, and no one who isn't part of that Alliance will be allowed to without being destroyed. Just a thought. |
Reaper gI
Me Wanna Machariel
0
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Posted - 2012.10.02 03:10:00 -
[109] - Quote
(I was at the London meet)
The big change is not the un-exploitable (or exploitable only as insurance fraud is now) bounties. The example was a raven paying out about 20mil. So it should be fairly difficult, and it will self correct as the existing fraud does.
The kill rights change was described as (paraphrasing, due to the beer) you can see anyone who has killrights against them from the overview, then click on them to buy/ rent those rights there and then (if they've been put on the open market).
So kill rights can now get you killed if you go into highsec and aren't instawarping (or close to it) off gates (we'll get highsec gate camps of bounty hunters). Similarly a criminal could buy them off their victim, so they didnt have to wait out the kill right (or lose a ship). |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
585
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Posted - 2012.10.02 05:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.
From: Tommas De'Wins
To: Cipher Jones
Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Van Kuzco
Stryker Industries
0
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Posted - 2012.10.02 06:37:00 -
[111] - Quote
I think transferable kill rights sounds like an amazing idea. It would really make bounty hunting a viable profession.
I also the transfer should work in a similar way to war declarations in that:
1. There would be a 24 hour delay in the transfer of the kill rights
2. The character who is the target of the transfer would get notification of the new character's name that has assumed ownership of the kill right. This allows the person targeted to add that person to his watch list and add any standings. In this way the person targeted will have full knowledge if someone with kill rights is coming for him (through studious local observation or other means).
Other new bounty changes like a payout in proportion to the ship's cost should be in effect as well.
Oh, and I'm speaking as someone who's been killed a bunch of times, but in each case the only thing I did in response was to open a private conversation, inquire how they caught me, and what I could improve in the future. |
Asura Kai
Khanid Astrogeology Consortium
The Empiric Fleet Coalition
8
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Posted - 2012.10.02 06:55:00 -
[112] - Quote
Another idea for improving upcoming bounty system:
1. Link experience loss to the amount of bounty currently in your head. What this means is that for example if you had 1mil isk in bounty on your head, you will loose 1000 exp point the moment you are killed or podded regardless of your clone limit. So let say you had 10mil in bounty, and player A poded you, player A will receive your bounty and you will lost 10000exp. Of course the Exp/ISK ratio can be adjust to suit the need.
2. Wanted player with bounty can also buy Insurance with Concord with the equal amount of ISk in their bounty to ensure they do not lost exp when poded.
With this changes, it will close the loop hole of using an alt to collect your own bounty because the cost of that bounty is going to be too high. It will also increase realism and extra thrill that came with your notoriety. I believe it will also bring new fevor and zeal back to all those PVPer to pod their prey back to Lvl1.
Not to mention this will be a very good ISK sink.
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Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
314
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 07:05:00 -
[113] - Quote
It would have to be quite a low % for it to not be worth shooting your own ships and cash out on insurance + bounty just to clear it off your head. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
314
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Posted - 2012.10.02 07:06:00 -
[114] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.
What if you cant collect it by suicide ganking? Then you can only claim it in war, null/low or by killing someone with low sec status. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
4746
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 07:09:00 -
[115] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.
Are corp thieves criminals?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
4746
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 07:10:00 -
[116] - Quote
Asura Kai wrote:Another idea for improving upcoming bounty system:
1. Link experience loss to the amount of bounty currently in your head. What this means is that for example if you had 1mil isk in bounty on your head, you will loose 1000 exp point the moment you are killed or podded regardless of your clone limit. So let say you had 10mil in bounty, and player A poded you, player A will receive your bounty and you will lost 10000exp. Of course the Exp/ISK ratio can be adjust to suit the need.
2. Wanted player with bounty can also buy Insurance with Concord with the equal amount of ISk in their bounty to ensure they do not lost exp when poded.
With this changes, it will close the loop hole of using an alt to collect your own bounty because the cost of that bounty is going to be too high. It will also increase realism and extra thrill that came with your notoriety. I believe it will also bring new fevor and zeal back to all those PVPer to pod their prey back to Lvl1.
Not to mention this will be a very good ISK sink.
That is a truly dreadful idea.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
241
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 07:19:00 -
[117] - Quote
I read this again and if I am reading it right what they are saying is, you can't bounty certain people in the current system. That will change with the new one. Rather than me needing to reach a certain sec status to bounty, if I come in to a belt with a Bestower and steal your stuffs, you can now bounty me even if I have a 5.00 sec rating. Even go so far as to bounty me so I can't fly Bestowers, make it as small as 5K and that means I am fair game for the bounty hunter when I am in a Bestower but I still need to instigate a criminal act to have a bounty put on me.
So a theoretical scenario, I steal from you, you bounty me, the hounty Hunter blows up my ship, steals from my wreck, I bounty him and you kill the bounty hunter you hired with my bounty.
/head explodes |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
111
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Posted - 2012.10.02 07:22:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ocih wrote:I read this again and if I am reading it right what they are saying is, you can't bounty certain people in the current system. That will change with the new one. Rather than me needing to reach a certain sec status to bounty, if I come in to a belt with a Bestower and steal your stuffs, you can now bounty me even if I have a 5.00 sec rating. Even go so far as to bounty me so I can't fly Bestowers, make it as small as 5K and that means I am fair game for the bounty hunter when I am in a Bestower but I still need to instigate a criminal act to have a bounty put on me.
So a theoretical scenario, I steal from you, you bounty me, the bounty Hunter blows up my ship, steals from my wreck, I bounty him and you kill the bounty hunter you hired with my bounty.
/head explodes
I like esplody stuff!
Herr Hammer Draken
"The Amarr Prophet" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9681
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 07:25:00 -
[119] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous. How so? It's not like criminal organisations don't put prices on people's heads all the time, especially if they're annoying do-gooders who interfere with their businessGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1258
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Posted - 2012.10.02 07:49:00 -
[120] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous. What if you happen to use the word "loose" in place of "lose" all the time in your posts? Should I not have the right to exact retribution upon you?
Caldari Militia |
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