I hope a dev blog comes out about this soon so we're not innundated by these threads.

OP's shirt is too small

OP's shirt is too small

Also, scoliosis.

No. One boob is bigger than the other, which shifts my weight.

This seems to solve the alt problem. Someone can use an alt to kill the character with the bounty on its head, but the alt would never collect more than what the kill was worth. There's no longer any profit to be made.

Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX.

Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX.

Yeah, good luck with that ;) CCP has changed quite a few things behind the scenes in the wake of the FW exploit, in order to specifically prevent that type of manipulation.

So long as Eve's market value estimation takes trades into account and there are useless items, it will be possible to manipulate it. Basing payments on that market value estimation incentivises that manipulation.


Care to tell us more about how you want to disenfranchise voters who's views you disagree with? It's funny how you've run screaming away from the defining issue of the CSM 7.

I really don't care about voting reform. That's between the players and CCP Xhagen to work out, and CCP Xhagen has already mentioned that Trebor's proposal is dead on arrival. You're welcome to continue making an issue out of it, but I won't be.

Anyway, the other big problem with bounties based on destroyed value is that they don't change behavior in the individual case.
In Lowsec and Nullsec, the guy with the bounty is going to die or not for reasons totally unrelated to the bounty on his head.
In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking, but now you have to calculate the dropped value plus the percentage on the destroyed value all while deciding to suicide gank someone who's likely in a fast ship.
In none of these cases is having a high total bounty at all dangerous (because each person who kills you only gets a small bounty).

In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking

You'll do well here.

It's safe to say this is a major assumption at this point.

Aren't you clever. Why do you want to disenfranchise voters?

How is having a high bounty any more dangerous for you than having a low one, as advertised, in a proportional system? The payout's the same.

Aren't you clever. Why do you want to disenfranchise voters?

How is having a high bounty any more dangerous for you than having a low one, as advertised, in a proportional system? The payout's the same.

If you tend to sly a ship worth 100 mil and the payout is 50% of ship value, and I place a 50mil bounty, you get killed once, some guy gets the bounty and then you're left alone.

If I place a 500 mil bounty that guy can kill you ten times and get the same reward.

Interestingly you could use this as a method to "pay" your frontline troopers in sov warefare. Place a 10bil bounty on the enemy and let your soldiers get paid for what they kill.

Personally I think this is very interesting. It is less of a "I'll pay you to kill this guy" bounty and more "I want you to do X amount of fiscal damage to this person". If we stick with the 50% figure which I made up a 500mil bounty encourages people to kill 1bil worth of your ships.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter/

"There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify"

I discussed this with a friend of mine and from what I see this new bounty system can be abused. I hope I'm wrong and some actions and/or limitations will take place to prevent such abuse.

Care to elaborate?? This is rather vague...

I would assume that he considers putting bounties on Hulks and such "abuse."

I would assume that he considers putting bounties on Hulks and such "abuse."

Where are people getting the idea that you can bounty a ship type, out of curiousity? I'm unaware CCP has posted and details yet publicly about this...

I really don't care about voting reform. That's between the players and CCP Xhagen to work out, and CCP Xhagen has already mentioned that Trebor's proposal is dead on arrival. You're welcome to continue making an issue out of it, but I won't be.

Being part of the unrepresented, disenfranchied HI SEC populous & not being space rich I guess a different more representative voting system, just like ring mining, will be pushed back to Soon(TM)

Where are people getting the idea that you can bounty a ship type, out of curiousity? I'm unaware CCP has posted and details yet publicly about this...

Read the OP. The "news" came from the London EVE Meet. According to the source, this is what Soundwave was saying.

Sounds like a f**king good idea to me, though.

Where are people getting the idea that you can bounty a ship type, out of curiousity? I'm unaware CCP has posted and details yet publicly about this...

Care to elaborate?? This is rather vague...

Where are people getting the idea that you can bounty a ship type, out of curiousity? I'm unaware CCP has posted and details yet publicly about this...

"On ships as well as pods" is not the same as ship types.

Why wouldn't they? If bounties are now about causing economic harm to the victim rather than trying to get them killed, why should you need to specify who you want hurt?

A proportional system is perfectly achievable through the forums, a 3rd party, and a killboard, but it requires some effort. Bounties on ship types is achievable through the forums, a 3rd party, and a killboard, but it requires the same effort. Why add one to a game mechanical system and not the other?

Read the OP. The "news" came from the London EVE Meet. According to the source, this is what Soundwave was saying.

But putting a bounty on all Hulks ... f**king great idea.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the idea, you're absolutely right about this being already possible. I'm simply pointing out that this isn't something that CCP has verified publicly yet, to my knowledge.

from what I understand(and I hope I'm wrong), one who has a bounty on him will be open to attack, by anyone, anywhere, at any time.

WeeeellGǪ no, that's overstating the case somewhat. What you're saying is just one way of reading of it.

Another way of reading it is that bounty payout will be calculated as a percentage of ship losses, rather than requiring a pod loss. In other words, you'd still only be specifying a formal groupings of people: individual, corp, alliance GÇö no wholesale loose categories (e.g. GÇ£anyone currently in a [ship x]GÇ¥ that anyone can find themselves in.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the idea, you're absolutely right about this being already possible. I'm simply pointing out that this isn't something that CCP has verified publicly yet, to my knowledge.

By the way, the bad guys have every much as much right as the "good guys" to set a bounty on someone they have an axe to grind with. This is going to be the most controversial part of the whole thing I think.

No, this would be crazy. Kill rights will be saleable and rentable, though.

Oh, yeah. I didn't mean to imply that it was in any way confirmed.

I just meant that that's what he's worried about. Having a bounty put on his mining boat.

Why should they be? You want someone killed, hire a merc.

Like a 1B ISK bounty on a certain organization that likes to pretend it is full of newbros.

I thought you FW folks would less stingy.

Oh, I'm not worried at all about that being the case. :) I'm quite resigned to the fact that I'll be one of the first people out there with a substantial bounty pool on my head. My alts too, once they are all discovered.

Like you said, Hulkageddon-style payouts already exist. CCP building a similar system into the game wouldn't change a thing.

I don't understand your post. If the merc wants to kill the guy without making a wardec (highsec), they hire the killright from someone.

Why should you be able to buy the ability to escape HS aggression mechanics?

If you're hiring a merc, pay well enough to buy a suicide gank.

Why should you be able to buy the ability to escape HS aggression mechanics?

If you're hiring a merc, pay well enough to buy a suicide gank.

Bounty/killrights and crimewatch changes could make room for tweaks on CONCORD? Allowing players more options (and motives) to take the law into their own hands might mean the magic space police won't need to be quite as powerful as they are?

Bounty/killrights and crimewatch changes could make room for tweaks on CONCORD? Allowing players more options (and motives) to take the law into their own hands might mean the magic space police won't need to be quite as powerful as they are?

Oh, I'm not worried at all about that being the case. :) I'm quite resigned to the fact that I'll be one of the first people out there with a substantial bounty pool on my head. My alts too, once they are all discovered.

Like you said, Hulkageddon-style payouts already exist. CCP building a similar system into the game wouldn't change a thing.

If someone had kill rights, the player was a pirate and had ganked someone in empire anyway. Why are you arguing with me? This is one of the features of the new system.

This would be phenomenal. I really hope that this will one day be the case. Player justice > NPC justice and I'd love to see CONCORD eventually scaled back if, over time, a player justice model becomes robust enough to shoulder some of their responsibility.

Ehhh and this is just a wild guess but I'm wondering what CSM was talking to Bagehi about when they mentioned a potentially controversial feature coming in Winter.

So? I'm not saying that the person who has the killright shouldn't be able to freely attack their ganker, I'm asking why the person they're outsourcing revenge to should be able to perform that revenge without consequence?

And I see nothing in there about transferrable killrights.

The part that says "sell or rent out kill rights" is referring to the selling or renting out of kill rights.

Killrights at the moment are a system that isn't being used. Besides, many ganks are made upon industry or low-skill alts that wouldn't be able to take advantage of the killrights anyway.

I don't understand your objection to outsourcing a bit of pewpew. What's the difference between the original character attacking a person without consequence and someone else attacking the same person without consequence? Remember that many characters being ganked aren't skilled in pvp. Besides that, a percentage-based bounty system wouldn't work in highsec unless the mercenary was able to kill the target for profit. If the target flies a battlecruiser, suicide ganking for profit just isn't possible.

A wardec allows you to pay to attack someone. Buying killrights allows you to attack someone. The difference is, with a wardec, they could be innocent, they know you're coming and they'll fly a suitable pvp ship. With transferrable killrights, they've performed a criminal action, which they knew would create a kill right (this is important), you can catch them by surprise, and you're more able to catch them in something that'll hurt their wallet when it goes 'boom'.

I think another important difference is that a wardec will likely cost more but allows you to attack that person multiple times. A killright only works once. Whether or not it will cost more to buy will depend upon the bounty or the target, I guess.

The difference is that it's a whole different person. A person that you have done nothing to and thus have no way of knowing is after you. If the people who have outgoing killrights are unwilling to prosecute those killrights, that's their problem. They have access to the exact same skills and rules as everyone else.

So pay your mercs enough that a suicide gank will be profitable for them.

Wardecs allow you to attack someone and allow them to attack you. If buying a killright gives the person whom that right is for some warning and allows them to attack you, I'm all for that (and I've suggested that before), but given the giant mess CCP's made out of the wardec system in the name of improving it, that's not likely to happen.

The question remains if it will be used to nullify Concord.
The way I read it, there isn't really a need for motive to bounty someone so the system can and will get used as a Vendetta system to grief out anyone and everyone.

It will only be a matter of time before every ship class in EVE has bounties on it. If that happens, places like Jita become harvest grounds.

Please remember the nature of what a killright is. A killright is granted only when someone kills you illegally (no wardecs, no canflip) in Empire where you didn't agress them at all. If you shoot back after they start shooting you, the killright isn't granted. You're using lines like 'a person you have done nothing to and has no way to know you're after them'. The killright was granted in the first place because the aggressor killed a person who had done nothing to them and didn't know the aggressor was after them! Also, the fact that the victim didn't even try to fight back to get on the CONCORD mail indicates that they weren't able to fight back.

The aggressor will know a killright might be granted the moment they hit F1.

Surprise in HS costs you your ship. If you want to avoid that cost, you'll either have to pay ISK and give up that surprise or you'll have to get your victim to afree to the fight.

And? Not being able to fight back at the time means that they made a choice to fit their ship without guns (or fly a ship without them).

It takes two. One who may have been stupid enough to attract a gank, and the second who made the choice to commit a crime. Allowing transfer of kill rights isn't just there to allow free attacks. The bounty and killright systems were created to allow players to punish people who commit a crime. That is, it's always been an intended feature of EVE Online. The transfer of killrights is going to allow bounties and killrights to achieve that goal. Your insistence that people should have to wardec or suicide gank is ignoring the intent of the killrights system - that it may allow players to punish criminals and might make criminals think twice before ganking an innocent, which it is currently failing to do.

Not anymore.

Sure it is. Why else would you need the kill right? If you want to hurt the guy who hurt you and you want it to be a surprise, you can do that, it's just going to cost you the ship you use to suicide gank them.

The killrights system is there to allow people to get revenge on people who wronged them. Not to avenge other people's losses. If you want to avenge other people's losses, it's going to cost you, because you're butting into someone else's business.

The killrights system is there to allow people to get revenge on people who wronged them.

No. Due the whole 'alternate character' business the killrights system is useless. The intent was to allow to player to take action against the person who wronged them without risking CONCORD or gateguns. Mining alts are unable to do that.

The bounty system is also there to allow people to get someone else to get revenge for them. The bounty system is flawed, however, and we both know why - it's too easy to exit the ship and pod yourself with your alt to claim the bounty. This is why the bounty system is being changed to a percentage of ship cost. As I said, this makes suicide ganking for bounty unprofitable and not worthwhile, because you're only getting a proportion of the target's shipcost as bounty.

This is where transferrable killrights comes in. You can transfer the killrights to your PvP character to get your deserved retribution. Bounty hunters won't have to make an unprofitable suicide gank to claim the bounty. They can buy or rent the killrights (yes, this would probably cost money because there are only so few killrights to go around for a large bounty target) to attack the target, who no-one can argue was undeserving of being shot by the fact that they had killrights on them in the first place.

The transfer of killrights is neccessary to fulfil the original intent of the killrights system in the current EVE game and also neccessary to facilitate the new bounty system.

If you don't train your mining alt up to avenge its own losses, that's your choice. You choose not to train it to be able to avenge itself. Before you say "there's no reason to do so," making use of your killrights is a reason. If you don't value that, that's your choice.

How does a percentage bounty not make ganking worthwhile? Especially with regards to T2 ships. If the percentage you set isn't high enough to make it worth ganking a certain ship, up the percentage. 75% will make it worth ganking just about any ship. But wait, that would cost you something.

Transferable killrights are simply you being too cheap to hire a proper hit, and too cowardly/lazy to do it yourself, so you want somebody else to pay you for their shot at a free gank. Where's the risk for the person buying the killright?

It is in no way necessary. Killrights are there to allow your character to get revenge on another character.
It's also not in any way necessary to allow a bounty system to work. As I said, if the payout isn't enough to make the gank profitable, up your offering.

Hopefully people are not forgetting about ship insurance.

If insurance payout + bounty > insurance cost + ship cost, the system will not work for anything but pods.

Somehow missed that line

The difference is that it's a whole different person. A person that you have done nothing to and thus have no way of knowing is after you. If the people who have outgoing killrights are unwilling to prosecute those killrights, that's their problem. They have access to the exact same skills and rules as everyone else..

The percentage bounty means that the amount of bounty paid out is somewhere under the value of the ship, like the faction war LP system. It's not set by players. This means that getting a large enough bounty paid out to be worth your time means you need to attack a high-value ship. High-value ships just happen to be ships that require a large investment to gank. It has been made that to gank a ship you generally need to spend as much or more than the value of the ship to destroy it, especially with the no-insurance nerf to suicide ganking. For this reason suicide ganking ships for profit in the new bounty system is unlikely to be worthwhile. In the current system, suicide ganks for bounty profit are made using smartbomb battleships and this is only possible because the whole bounty is paid out at the same time.

One intention for transferrable killrights is to allow people to purchase the right in anticipation of attacking someone to claim the bounty, because the cost of wardecs may just be too high for the amount of bounty you can expect to claim.

You ask about risk for the person buying the killright. Please remember that while risk/reward is an important ratio in this game, risk isn't the only thing that nets you reward. The merc is investing isk into buying a killright that they may never get to use. And what about the risk for the ganker themselves? After making that gank they face almost zero risk of the victim using the killright. No-one even considers it, really - miners choose to aggress the ganker with their hobgoblins to get on the CONCORD mail rather than take the killrights.

Yes. Killrights allow your character to take revenge on another character. Which is why they are currently all but useless.

Also your suggestion of training pvp skills on a mining alt is stupid. People don't do that, which is why the game is changing.

e: ships that are profitable to gank, by the way, are usually gits hauling more cargo than the cost to gank their ship is worth. because they'd have been ganked anyway, they can be discounted when it comes to discussing players attacking ships for bounty.

In other words, you're complaining that criminals will be in the exact same situation as suicide gank victims, never knowing who's going to attack them or when?

I'm trying to think of a reason not to say "Well suck it up then", but I can't.

Except that Suicide Gankers lose their ships. They get to say "Surprise" but it costs them their ship. People exercising kill rights do not lose anything.

What risk does the miner take in selling the killright? The ganker has the risk of being shot by the person who they ganked. The fact that people are too lazy to use those killrights is their choice.

I suppose a lot of that will also depend on who can buy those killrights. The bounty changes already sound like they're (slowly) introducing the whole concept of legal persons in EVE and giving them some of the same properties as individuals. Now imagine what would happen if a killright became a corp propertyGǪ

Wait till you've collected enough bounties and manipulate EVE's market value calculation. So long as there are useless items that are effectively untraded, you can manipulate them quite cheaply then blow them up for profit a la FW FOREX.

Unknown why this thread was ever locked.

The one I ported over to the Assembly Hall...also locked for unknown reasons.

Interestingly you could use this as a method to "pay" your frontline troopers in sov warefare. Place a 10bil bounty on the enemy and let your soldiers get paid for what they kill.

from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/09/retribution-bounties.html

I've yet to see a bounty-like system implemented in any MMO that wasn't made pointless via exploits.

The more I think about this new system, the more potential it looks like it has.

It indirectly deals with the issue of players corp hopping to avoid war decs. If you want someone bad enough, put a bounty on him directly.

In high sec you could put a bounty out that is equal to or greater than the cost of a suicide gank. It will provide an interesting tool to miners who want to grief the compettion. A disposable gank squad of 2 week old destroyer pilots is pretty darn cheap; just do the math for a mack kill and price the bounty accordingly. At the very least the gank could be free for the gankers, minus the sec status.

As an old eve player, about to hit year 9, all i can say is, if we can;t transfer kill rights, then this new system is not much of an improvement. I can see how if say an alliances hires pl and pays them, lets go with 50B to kill alliance X, pl can place 30B of that 50 as a bounty on alliance X and have there members just reek havoc. This part i like. I also have no issues with GS placing a bounty on hulks for a hulkageedon type of event. As i'm sure they do this manually anyway. However, when i first started playing eve i was an anti pirate that would help hunt down pirates in the Derelik region (a long time ago) and was very irritated that after a few kills i would have a grind back sec to get to jita to buy stuff, or would have to be sure i stayed away from gates and things so as not to die with flagged. This basically turned me completely away from bounty hunting. As there was no real incentive to go after anyone if i would either just get concorded in hs, or have to deal with sec loss, or deal with guns.

The point is, the only way bounty hunting will ever be a viable profession is if its treated as such. Either by allowing people to get some sort of bounty hunting license, so concord looks the other way in hs for legit Bounty kills, or the ability for me to sell my kill rights to people who will be interested in killing for profit, If you can;t hint someone anywhere, without at least no sec hit, then there is not much point.

just my two isk

Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.

Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.

Another idea for improving upcoming bounty system:

1. Link experience loss to the amount of bounty currently in your head. What this means is that for example if you had 1mil isk in bounty on your head, you will loose 1000 exp point the moment you are killed or podded regardless of your clone limit. So let say you had 10mil in bounty, and player A poded you, player A will receive your bounty and you will lost 10000exp. Of course the Exp/ISK ratio can be adjust to suit the need.

2. Wanted player with bounty can also buy Insurance with Concord with the equal amount of ISk in their bounty to ensure they do not lost exp when poded.

With this changes, it will close the loop hole of using an alt to collect your own bounty because the cost of that bounty is going to be too high. It will also increase realism and extra thrill that came with your notoriety. I believe it will also bring new fevor and zeal back to all those PVPer to pod their prey back to Lvl1.

Not to mention this will be a very good ISK sink.

I read this again and if I am reading it right what they are saying is, you can't bounty certain people in the current system. That will change with the new one. Rather than me needing to reach a certain sec status to bounty, if I come in to a belt with a Bestower and steal your stuffs, you can now bounty me even if I have a 5.00 sec rating. Even go so far as to bounty me so I can't fly Bestowers, make it as small as 5K and that means I am fair game for the bounty hunter when I am in a Bestower but I still need to instigate a criminal act to have a bounty put on me.

So a theoretical scenario, I steal from you, you bounty me, the bounty Hunter blows up my ship, steals from my wreck, I bounty him and you kill the bounty hunter you hired with my bounty.

/head explodes

Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.

Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.

People with killrights against them have by definition committed an attack on someone else to have; they're not in the same position as Freddy The Freighter Alt here.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I'm sorry Pipa, but you really are arguing the wrong corner here.

If gankers and pirates are worried about being attacked in hi-sec due to transferrable killrights then they should follow the same advice that is offered to potential suicide gank victims: fly cheap ships, situational awareness, bring friends, avoid danger spots, don't go AFK.

Another idea for improving upcoming bounty system:

1. Link experience loss to the amount of bounty currently in your head. What this means is that for example if you had 1mil isk in bounty on your head, you will loose 1000 exp point the moment you are killed or podded regardless of your clone limit. So let say you had 10mil in bounty, and player A poded you, player A will receive your bounty and you will lost 10000exp. Of course the Exp/ISK ratio can be adjust to suit the need.

2. Wanted player with bounty can also buy Insurance with Concord with the equal amount of ISk in their bounty to ensure they do not lost exp when poded.

With this changes, it will close the loop hole of using an alt to collect your own bounty because the cost of that bounty is going to be too high. It will also increase realism and extra thrill that came with your notoriety. I believe it will also bring new fevor and zeal back to all those PVPer to pod their prey back to Lvl1.

Not to mention this will be a very good ISK sink.

How so? It's not like criminal organisations don't put prices on people's heads all the time, especially if they're annoying do-gooders who interfere with their businessGǪ

Are corp thieves criminals?

What if you happen to use the word "loose" in place of "lose" all the time in your posts? Should I not have the right to exact retribution upon you?

Yes, criminal organizations put out bounties all the time. And the ones who collect on them are wanted criminals. Even if they weren't before. So unless they are going to implement something along that line also, no thx.



My favorite kind.

Yes, criminal organizations put out bounties all the time. And the ones who collect on them are wanted criminals. Even if they weren't before. So unless they are going to implement something along that line also, no thx.

If they're not alerted to the sale of their killright, what amount of situational awareness will help? As CONCORD won't be getting involved, there's no set of ships that would be commonly used. What can friends do? Unlike the victims of suicide ganks, their friends can't do anything without being CONCORDed. What danger spots? Locator agents, mean that that's anywhere.

What risk does the miner take in selling their killright? They don't have to put any effort or money into it. What risk does the buyer take? They're not going to lose their ship, so they have no need to worry about profitability, and they can back out up until the instant they point their target.

If they're not alerted to the sale of their killright, what amount of situational awareness will help? As CONCORD won't be getting involved, there's no set of ships that would be commonly used. What can friends do? Unlike the victims of suicide ganks, their friends can't do anything without being CONCORDed. What danger spots? Locator agents, mean that that's anywhere..

What risk does the miner take in selling their killright? They don't have to put any effort or money into it. What risk does the buyer take? They're not going to lose their ship, so they have no need to worry about profitability, and they can back out up until the instant they point their target.

I do agree that everyone needs to know who owns your kill right. The game should notify you when a kill right is transfered to a new owner.

All I have to say is this.

__________________________________________________________
Paid for by the Committee for Responsible Posting

Should "the game" notify you when there are 12 guys in gank-fit tornados on the other side of a gate, or 4 dudes in catalysts warping to your belt?

the same situational awareness that Freighter pilots have to us when they're not alerted to a planned gank?

The miner has already subsumed their risk into a ship loss that has already happened. In other words, he takes exactly the same risk as a suicide ganker; parlaying a definite ship loss into a possible kill.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you're too scared of reprisal to suicide gank, then don't do it.

hth

I'm saying that people who inflict random violence on others in hi-sec for fun and profit should scarcely complain when the possibility now applies to them. And it's not like pirates are flying about in unarmed industrials, either. They're being faced with the prospect of a single opponent in a pvP ship just like them. Why so serious?

oddly enough it sounds exactly like the bounty system i suggested they use years ago O_o

Why do people have this notion that kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system?

Because transferable killrights are what make bounty-hunting a viable profession.

Why? Set your bounty high enough to make a suicide gank worthwhile. Why should bounty-hunting be cost and risk free (as your version of transferable kill rights makes it)?

"Risk free"? Are suicide gankers all such nugatory PvPers that attacking them is a zero risk activity?

wow you guys post a lot. I'm still just going to let you speculate until you see my team's first dev blog:+P

wow you guys post a lot. I'm still just going to let you speculate until you see my team's first dev blog:+P

wow you guys post a lot. I'm still just going to let you speculate until you see my team's first dev blog:+P

And when we can expect that being published? :)

Maybe you don't post ENOUGH eh?

Just for that comment I'm going to place a bounty on you when I know how they work.

if I'd tell you this wouldn't be a good tease!

if I'd tell you this wouldn't be a good tease!

Every bounty system I've seen is made moot due to alts.

Let me list the advantages you would have going after the blind killright victim.
1. You get to chose time and place.
2. You get to know what ship they're flying.
3. You get to check what fit they're running.
4. You get to chose the starting range.
5. You get the first shot.
6. You get to abandon your attempt if you've spooked your target.
7. 1, 4,5,6 are all mechanically enforced.

Tell me, with all that stacked against you, could you win? Could anyone?

So.... which of those don't apply to suicide ganking? Should that be removed also?

honestly, Pipa, I'm really disappointed with you taking a stand against a shift to player-enforced consequences rather than yet another dreary CONCORD boost. Especially one that promotes the holy grails of solo PvP and hi-sec PvP. Is non consensual PvP only desirable when it's against players in defenceless non combat ships or something? You're sounding like the stereotype "gankbear" in the badposts about piracy and ganking. Stop feeding those guys lines for the love of God.

I will wait to see what CCP has come up with, however I pretty much agree with your point. Any bounty system suffers from the same weakness shared by any "lock and key" system, be it a physical lock or a DRM scheme buried in a lot of encrypted goobledegook. You can do whatever you want to obfuscate, but at the end of the day if you allow user "X" to open the lock, then users "Y" and "Z" will also be able to open the lock if they have the right key/code/password/etc.

Therefore if any player can claim a bounty, then an alt can also claim a bounty, since it is impossible for CCP to prove who I am friends with or who is working for me.

The only system I could imagine as working is if the person who is hunted has absolutely no idea that a price is on their head, and if the person offering the reward can limit it to a specific person/corp when placing the bounty. But that still doesn't stop people from scamming, like a popular bounty-hunter corp could for example offer to split the bounties with the wanted people, in exchange for letting themselves be killed.

Meanwhile, let me list the advantages the killright victim has over the gank victim:

1) Only the guy with the killright can attack him
2) He can be in any ship he likes, presumably one that's PvP capable
3) He's likely to be in the company of other PvPers who may be willing to assist him eg with logistics, bumping or even suicide ganking
4) He's unlikely to have expensive fittings, and won't necessarily be in a T2 ship.
5) He knows that there are killrights on him, and has a specific reason to be alert for a known period of time

Sooner you publish, bigger tearz you collect. And as we all know space hamsterz run on tearz.

1) But he can't find out who they are, so that's no advantage.

Alternatively, stop ganking and pirating if you're worried about people in ships more threatening than haulers and hulks shooting back at you.

Oh right, you're just trolling. Sorry, carry on.

Killright kills don't cost the attacker anything.

Alternatively, stop ganking and pirating if you're worried about people in ships more threatening than haulers and hulks shooting back at you.

Except the ship that was lost to create the killright in the first place

The first draft of the dev blog has a reference to one of my two favorite movies :3

The first draft of the dev blog has a reference to one of my two favorite movies :3

Hey CCP punkturis I really like you and would like to know something about you
What is your favorite movie for example?

Oh, I'm not worried at all about that being the case. :) I'm quite resigned to the fact that I'll be one of the first people out there with a substantial bounty pool on my head. My alts too, once they are all discovered.

princess bride and elf!

princess bride

What's wrong with your targets being able to know they're being hunted, and be able to fight back?

Suicide Gank Victims can do both. Scouts/Dscan, and Guards work wonders to foil most suicide gank.

Blind Tradeable killright targets can't find out who's gunning from them and can't be effectively helped.

Seriously? I don't understand how you cant see how stupid your argument is. Suicide gank victims don't know they're being hunted. If they did, they wouldn't be suicide gank victims now would they? Your same argument could be applied to people with transferred kill rights. Let them scan and hire guards.

You understand how kill rights work right? As soon as the person with kill rights starts shooting the other person can shoot back.

Suicide killrights victims can find out who's hunting them and avoid them. It's called local and d-Scan. That they choose not to is irrelevant.

Why my topic, that i posted a week ago with similar solve do not have hundreds replies? :D

Fixed. Carry on.

By the way, forcing miners to D-scan through hundreds of pilots in a system is essentially the same as you having to sort through who's hunting you as well. Don't like it? Then follow the advice you give to miners: Find quieter systems to do your business in. Stay alert. Dock the first sign of trouble. Stay aligned. Add the boogymen to your contacts list. Yadda yadda yadda.

...
2) Your post had terrible grammar, solved a different and much less important problem, and wasn't even a particularly good solution.

Suicide victims can find out who's hunting them and avoid them. It's called local and d-Scan. That they choose not to is irrelevant.

Except that the targets of transferred killrights have nothing to look for on the scan (as their hunters are not limited to certain hulls due to needing to be cost conscious), and their guards can't do anything nearly as effective as gank victims' guards could (no ECM, no shooting the gankers).

Why should the purchaser of a killright get the first shot and the element of surprise, both mechanically enforced, without any consequence?

Except no. What does a killright hunter fly? Anything. What's their name? Anything. There's nothing to d-scan for. There's nobody to look for in local. There's nothing to stay alert for. The killright hunter has a game mechanically enforced element of surprise that the target cannot overcome.

A Gank victim simply needs to set up a short range d-scan and look out for a half dozen destroyers or a couple tier 3s popping up on it.

Be on the lookout for well-known and established bounty hunters.

If this is the way it works then I think bounty hunting will be the new FOTM.

There is nothing to indicate kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system.

All talk on kill rights + bounty revamp are pretty pointless.

Fixed. Carry on.

By the way, forcing miners to D-scan through hundreds of pilots in a system is essentially the same as you having to sort through who's hunting you as well. Don't like it? Then follow the advice you give to miners: Find quieter systems to do your business in. Stay alert. Dock the first sign of trouble. Stay aligned. Add the boogymen to your contacts list. Get friends to protect you. Don't fly ships you can't afford to lose. Fight. Yadda yadda yadda.

This is how I view it:

If I go to high sec & gank a miner/freighter just for the fun of it, then that miner/freighter can sell the kill right on me to a bounty hunter.

I am okay at NOT knowing the bounty hunter that can come after me & has rights to kill me.

I believe that if I do something that is illegal, then I assume the responsibility for it.

If this is the way it works then I think bounty hunting will be the new FOTM.

And this would probably slow down the ganking, which in turn will make high sec safer for the carebears.

So, CCP dumped the whole thing and started over. Here's how the new bounty system in Retribution works: Any player can, for any reason, create a bounty on another player. Players can also put bounties on corporations (EVE Online's version of guilds) and alliances (groups of corporations). There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify. CCP feels that this allows the player community to make its own decisions about what is and isn't acceptable behavior in EVE's dark galaxy. Says Lander, "EVE is such a complex social game that we can't dictate who's bad."

If anyone's thinking that bounty hunting will stop ganking, then they're deluding themselves. Low SP destroyer alts are pretty much unaffected, for instance.

The players who will be affected are high-SP professional gankers, who will become the target of high-SP professional bounty hunters. Apparently some people think this is abloobloobloo unfair.

So what you're saying, Hans, is that this summary is completely incorrect:


http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter