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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
2138
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Posted - 2012.12.16 22:32:00 -
[181] - Quote
DarkestHeart wrote:If what you are saying is true, which due to other evidence that has been given over the past two weeks - CCP are able to get client data logs, which goes against most petition responses for reimbursement.
The classic "the logs show nothing" happens when client-server communications are broken, and thus the server has no clue what is going on with the client. This overlaps many reimbursement petitions because of losses caused by lag, disconnects (socket closed), desync (communication problems), freezing, or hardware problems. All of these would lead to the server losing contact with the client, and thus not having logs.
Don't be thick.
Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
70
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Posted - 2012.12.17 01:30:00 -
[182] - Quote
Sign me up, thx, running 2 boxes. |
Mak YuTsai
Shilo Inc.
13
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Posted - 2012.12.17 05:05:00 -
[183] - Quote
Signed. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
682
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Posted - 2012.12.17 05:42:00 -
[184] - Quote
DarkestHeart wrote:If what you are saying is true, which due to other evidence that has been given over the past two weeks - CCP are able to get client data logs, which goes against most petition responses for reimbursement. But thats another topic all together, back to the jukebox.
There's a huge difference between logs showing discrepancies between "what should have happened according to the server" and "what happened on the client" and logging the use of a single client feature.
I know you really want your jukebox back, but damn. Think for a few minutes and maybe accept that you're in a massive minority on that.
"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2012.12.17 08:21:00 -
[185] - Quote
I dont want to use external player on backround of my multiboxing rig. Either i cant use my laptop for music if my girlfriend is using laptop. I dont want to use soundcloud or anything browser related stuff. Because they sux and theyre stupid.
Currently i need to walk 5 meters to my stereos so i can change tracks, put music on and off etc from my ipod. And obviously i cant go afk all the times to adjust music while playing eve.
And signed btw. |
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CCP RealX
C C P
C C P Alliance
56
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Posted - 2012.12.17 10:43:00 -
[186] - Quote
Hi,
I want to thank you all for taking time to give this matter you attention. We (meaning the CCP sound department) are monitoring this thread closely and take all opinions into consideration. I hope you don't think we made this decision lightly.
First, some back story.
As many of you know that used the jukebox it was quite buggy and we got a lot of negative feedback regarding its use, it didn't measure up to other media players, it didn't support this or that codec etc. The jukebox works as a plugin to our audio engine (Audio Kinetics WWise) and was based on a now deprecated Microsoft MP3 decoder that was used as an example on how to build plugins for the WWise engine.
As mentioned in the blog these were the biggest issues that factored into the removal the jukebox. We believe we made the right decision but that is for EVE's community to decide. If we however made the wrong decision and you decide that we will put the jukebox back into the game, it will happen at the cost of adding new game-play related features. And I ask you all to weigh that into your thoughts on the matter. The jukebox needs a lot of love, and if we will give it all the love that it needs it will take development time away from game-play related features. If you decide that there is more value for you in the jukebox than there is in new features we will shift our focus back to the jukebox.
Regards,
RealX |
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Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
The Mockers AO
1066
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Posted - 2012.12.17 11:35:00 -
[187] - Quote
We don't need the Juke Box. Please let it go.
Where I am. |
FistyMcBumBasher
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.12.17 11:37:00 -
[188] - Quote
CCP RealX wrote:Hi, I want to thank you all for taking time to give this matter you attention. We (meaning the CCP sound department) are monitoring this thread closely and take all opinions into consideration. I hope you don't think we made this decision lightly. First, some back story. As many of you know that used the jukebox it was quite buggy and we got a lot of negative feedback regarding its use, it didn't measure up to other media players, it didn't support this or that codec etc. The jukebox works as a plugin to our audio engine (Audio Kinetics WWise) and was based on a now deprecated Microsoft MP3 decoder that was used as an example on how to build plugins for the WWise engine. As mentioned in the blog these were the biggest issues that factored into the removal the jukebox. We believe we made the right decision but that is for EVE's community to decide. If we however made the wrong decision and you decide that we will put the jukebox back into the game, it will happen at the cost of adding new game-play related features. And I ask you all to weigh that into your thoughts on the matter. The jukebox needs a lot of love, and if we will give it all the love that it needs it will take development time away from game-play related features. If you decide that there is more value for you in the jukebox than there is in new features we will shift our focus back to the jukebox. Regards, RealX
How large of a portion of the player base actually used the jukebox regularly? If it was less than 5% then don't waste any more dev time on it and keep coming out with awesome features. I for one would rather have more sounds in Eve when not using an external audio engine than the ability to play music in game. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
200
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Posted - 2012.12.17 11:57:00 -
[189] - Quote
I liked it for listening to "Below the Asteroids", but it's on soundcloud, so who cares about the jukebox. really.... |
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
17
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Posted - 2012.12.17 13:19:00 -
[190] - Quote
The only thing I really missed now that the jukebox was removed, is that there is no button in the option menu to disable music. This was also the reason I noticed that the jukebox is gone. Most players already uses more then one active cient, so a active media player in the background should be fine it for all the guys who want the Jukebox back. They can also play radio streams and other music, and doing all of this allready fine and better then ccp would do it in the next half year.
Also when the jukebox would brought back who of you would use it on more then one running client?
If CCP wil optimize some accessories I would prefer if the optimize the browser f.e. or give the calculator the functions of a graphical scientific calculator. For all of these functions are also other better software tools available, but at least I think they would be used by every player. |
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Inepsa1987
Team Shut It Down
18
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Posted - 2012.12.17 13:29:00 -
[191] - Quote
Please do not develop the jukebox. I would much rather have features that the player-base actually uses.
Spaceship Pilot. |
Colman Dietmar
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.12.17 13:39:00 -
[192] - Quote
androch wrote:what these ignorant trolls that tell us to use media player and such seem to be too dumb to realize is that lately alt tabbing from eve has been causing crashes and socket errors repeatedly so messing with a playlist outside eve... not a viable option for some players
You don't have to alt-tab, use global hotkeys instead. I'm using a horribly outdated winamp and even that supports them. |
DarkestHeart
The Pack
Fidelas Constans
47
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Posted - 2012.12.17 13:58:00 -
[193] - Quote
I wrote such a big post my browser timed out, just clearing this post so I can re-write. |
Jayden Demonia
We Are Vigilance Corporation
Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.12.17 14:09:00 -
[194] - Quote
+1 I agree I am thinking about dropping my subs from EVE because of this ); |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
129
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Posted - 2012.12.17 15:47:00 -
[195] - Quote
As a Mac player all I can say is *@^# NO!
All this crying to bring that awful thing back would be amusing except I'm almost afraid you'd convince CCP to do it. Mac players didn't have a working jukebox for years. I didn't even know that the songs in Eve had endings until early this year when they finally got the jukebox to play most of them completely. We never could import our own music without crashing the game and now I hear all the cries to waste developer time on a feature that won't work on our computers anyway so a few people won't have to deal with a few minor audio quirks or use a media player. I say rubbish to that! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1223
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Posted - 2012.12.17 15:51:00 -
[196] - Quote
update the browser to allow a subset of html5 and you don't have to tab around to stream music.
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
mkint
926
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Posted - 2012.12.17 16:08:00 -
[197] - Quote
*ding dong the box is dead*
*the box is dead*
*the stupid box*
*ding dong the stupid box is dead!*
Let's think about this... folks could either use an in-game jukebox that isn't really maintained at all, or they could use a 3rd party jukebox that is maintained full time by a full team that has thousands of plugins and skins. Hmm... tough decision. I'm glad the box is dead because now there are fewer stupid people asking "durh, how i ad musik to da boks?!" and now we just get stupid people asking "durh, wer duh boks go!?" Let it die, and let's dance on it's grave!
Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
32
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Posted - 2012.12.17 16:21:00 -
[198] - Quote
DarkestHeart wrote:I'm worried about this game, quite a lot, and its falling user-base.
Stopped reading here. Where do you get the idea that the user base is falling?
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DarkestHeart
The Pack
Fidelas Constans
47
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Posted - 2012.12.17 16:23:00 -
[199] - Quote
Aptenodytes wrote:DarkestHeart wrote:I'm worried about this game, quite a lot, and its falling user-base. Stopped reading here. Where do you get the idea that the user base is falling?
Are you serious? When was the last time the amout of people online hit 60k? |
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
32
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Posted - 2012.12.17 16:30:00 -
[200] - Quote
Online players != active subscribers
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Scaramanga Erquilenne
10
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Posted - 2012.12.17 16:49:00 -
[201] - Quote
Two clear divides here
1 Those who never used the jukebox and just want to come on the thread and insult the people who do want it back .Lots of childish comments referring to them as Stupid are dumb etc.
2 People who used the jukebox and enjoyed it and miss it and those who offer some constructive alternatives are ides
Good of the dev to give some input in to the thread but to suggest that other players will lose out other features if the jukebox is returned is just fueling the fire.I payed my subs for a game that had a in game juke box now it gone and now i am told if I want it back other players will lose out on other things?
All we want is a option to edit the play list like we had before .I dont understand the devs point of view at all .They can manage the music in its current state . But if we want to ability to edit are play lists that will consume so much resources that other developments will have to be binned.The music is still there we just cant delete and sort are own play order out now.
Stands to reason that any one who does not listen to music in game is going to get annoyed by these comments from the dev the feeling these are losing out on other developments because other people want features back that they themselves never used.
As a player who plays in full screen with one account alt&tab are window mode are not a road i want to go down.But as other have suggested some changes to UI to make it easier to control external players might be a good way around it if we really are to lose this feature.
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DarkestHeart
The Pack
Fidelas Constans
47
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Posted - 2012.12.17 16:49:00 -
[202] - Quote
Aptenodytes wrote:Online players != active subscribers
I simply asked for the source of your information.
User-base does not equal active subs, that I agree.
But do you really think that whilst the number of 'players' online has gone down, thats simply because the same number of people are using less alts?
No, overall less people online = less people paying for subscription.
If you want rough statistics then go here. |
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
32
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Posted - 2012.12.17 16:55:00 -
[203] - Quote
DarkestHeart wrote:If you want rough statistics then go here.
The 1 week, 1 month, 3 month, 6 month and 1 year graphs all look like they're going up to me. The all-time graph is a bit hard to read without any scale on the bottom but the peak would be several years ago at least - so I don't think jukebox removal has anything to do with that.
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DarkestHeart
The Pack
Fidelas Constans
47
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Posted - 2012.12.17 17:05:00 -
[204] - Quote
Aptenodytes wrote:DarkestHeart wrote:If you want rough statistics then go here. The 1 week, 1 month, 3 month, 6 month and 1 year graphs all look like they're going up to me. The all-time graph is a bit hard to read without any scale on the bottom but the peak would be several years ago at least - so I don't think jukebox removal has anything to do with that.
Can you please re-read posts made by myself and other signee's on this thread, you will find no reference to the jukebox being the reason that subs are falling.
You will however see people are voicing concern that the removal of the jukebox may, in the long-term, contribute to the decline of subs.
The reason? People, over time, will get fed up that good features are being removed. If someone is cheesed off that X feature has been removed, then find out next patch that Y feature has been removed, and the resolution of Y being removed, feature Z, doesnt work, people may be disgruntled enough to leave.
The crux of the issue is this - if you annoy and dissapoint people enough in a 'luxury' product such as EvE online, then how long do you expect them to keep paying for the product?
If the quality drops (and I'm not saying that the quality has dropped in this game, its just an example) then people will stop paying.
In any case, there is no way that there will be enough data yet to tell if the jukebox has had any effect on if people are quiting over this issue. What we can be sure of is that its causing enough of an issue to cause people that have remained silent throughout their EvE time to speak out, and create sides on the forum, argument on the forum and even arguments on Twitter.
Not to mention 'Help' channel gets questions asked about the jukebox a lot of the time. |
Recoil IV
Black Rain Cartel
48
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Posted - 2012.12.17 19:06:00 -
[205] - Quote
bring it back! + 1 supporter of this great cause |
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
32
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Posted - 2012.12.17 19:28:00 -
[206] - Quote
DarkestHeart wrote:You will however see people are voicing concern that the removal of the jukebox may, in the long-term, contribute to the decline of subs.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/12/17/in-an-age-of-f2p-eve-online-sets-records/
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Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs
Zulu People
66
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Posted - 2012.12.17 19:40:00 -
[207] - Quote
DarkestHeart wrote:I'm worried about this game, quite a lot, and its falling user-base.
Well it's your lucky day! You can stop worrying, because the user base is not falling at all: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
At worst, the user base has fallen like... less than 5% on average in the last several years. And even if so, it has stabilized recently.
Quote:I feel that cutting out certain features in this game are contributing to the falling user-base.
Nothing is contributing to the falling user base, because the user base is not falling.
The remainder of your post is just a longer, ramblier version of "CCP should re-invent windows media player for no particular reason." No. All of the things you mentioned as problems can be solved by WMP. Including hearing full length eve songs that dont stop at stargates (the download site for the eve songs has been linked in this thread)
The only thing that is really a reasonable request IMO is to just have a finer grained volume mixer in Eve, so that people can more selectively turn off what they dont like, so that they can replace it with their own stuff on third party media players (but still get useful sound effects, etc.)
Edit: sniped by guy above me. Number of online characters may have fallen a trivial amount (and then leveled off), but it looks like actual money subscriptions that matter to CCP's bottom line (two different things) are at record highs indeed. Even less reason to worry, yay. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2314
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Posted - 2012.12.17 19:54:00 -
[208] - Quote
Shokre O'Corwi wrote:CCP, can you add a Word like Office application while you're at it? Also, some CD/DVD burning software would be good, I don't wanna use an external application.
/sarcasm mode off
Music players freely available on the internet are way better at playing music then EVE's player ever was (not to be rude or anything, just stating that specialized software does the job better). Time of developers is better spent coding and developing something that benefits the gameplay anyway.
/sarcasm mode on
If only every single other game did not come with their ability to play their own music scores.
Oh wait, they do.
Removing the Jukebox also had the nasty side effect as well: you can't run 4-5 clients without getting crazy with the concurrent music cacophony so you have to manually turn on and off the music every gaming session... and it won't persist so the next session you have to do it again!
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
1
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Posted - 2012.12.17 21:15:00 -
[209] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Shokre O'Corwi wrote:*snip* /sarcasm mode on If only every single other game did not come with their ability to play their own music scores. Oh wait, they do. Removing the Jukebox also had the nasty side effect as well: you can't run 4-5 clients without getting crazy with the concurrent music cacophony so you have to manually turn on and off the music every gaming session... and it won't persist so the next session you have to do it again!
this is a bigger problem in my opinion, as much as i like the jukebox, the feature that came in it's place is not that bad, however with the jukebox they removed ALL music related settings
with efficiency in mind, i liked the option to STOP the music when i was not listening to it, having it play on at volume 0% wastes cpu time, which CAN matter on crappy computers, like an old laptop i have around
also, using external apps for music, alt-tabbing out risks a crash, running in window mode breaks immersion
of course it dosn't make sense to waste coding time on a feature almost noone uses,
but how much was it used really?
and how much coding time did it take to maintain?
i'm not a programmer, but to be honest, making the play-pause-stop-next_song buttons not break?
how much coding time did that consume?
not being sarcastic btw, i'm actually curious to find out |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions
Headshot Gaming
28
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Posted - 2012.12.17 22:42:00 -
[210] - Quote
I want to know why we as a community must choose between revamping the jukebox or focusing on playable features. It is obviously that you, the developers, have spent time and attention into this new music system. Why could that time not have been utilized instead on refining the already existing jukebox instead of creating something new entirely? |
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