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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1172
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 09:51:00 -
[151] - Quote
Ur235 wrote:Stupid idea if people could enter arenas and fight instead of roaming to find fights then it would be the end of 90% of all roams because hardly anyone would bother going on a roam if they can get an instant fights in some arena, and space would become even emptier than it is now
You're wrong.
Where would the people get the ships that go into the arena from?
Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1172
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 09:52:00 -
[152] - Quote
The big misconception that I've seen repeated throughout this thread is "risk-free".
There is absolute risk. We're a single shard, your name is out there to be shamed. It's not like you can transfer servers.
Your isk goes into these tournaments, if you don't win them then you dump a ton of isk into something that you lose money on to get nowhere.
However, if you're really good at it and play the meta game properly. You can win tournaments, make money and enjoy the e-peen factor.
The fact is, EVE needs a draw for players to come in and have a board to compete on. A gladiator arena would introduce so many facets to this sandbox which allow us to interact with that it is actually a feasible game concept for EVE. Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
baltec1
Bat Country
3347
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 09:53:00 -
[153] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:
This is unique to EVE.
So we end up with a slightly unique arena. Still doesnt change the outcome for the rest of the PVP out there, EVE arenas will kill it just as effectivly as the arenas in all those other games. |
baltec1
Bat Country
3347
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 09:54:00 -
[154] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:
You're wrong.
Where would the people get the ships that go into the arena from?
Same place as they do now. From grinding up isk in pve and buying them from industrialists. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2323
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 09:56:00 -
[155] - Quote
Ur235 wrote:Stupid idea if people could enter arenas and fight instead of roaming to find fights then it would be the end of 90% of all roams because hardly anyone would bother going on a roam if they can get an instant fights in some arena, and space would become even emptier than it is now I understand what you are saying, I really do. What you need to realize that a vast majority of players are risk adverse if they have the means to do so. With so many ways to gather all the intel you need about anyone and anywhere in a matter of seconds, things results in stand offs and 'blue balls'.
Everyone wants to win and when fights already have a winner declared before the first bullet is fired; why bother engaging in the first place if you know you will lose?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
TriadSte
IronPig Sev3rance
139
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 09:56:00 -
[156] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The idea isn't without merit, but would have to be done very carefully in a game such as Eve.
I would like to see us provide more and better support and tools for those players who are running or want to run their own tournaments and leagues. I think the Alliance Tournaments and New Eden Open have proved there's a place for sporting events in a game like Eve, and those kind of events are even better when they are player initiated and run.
I think the format needs changing though as in the ability to ban certain ships is hilarious thats a bit like Mike Tyson banning a heavy weight boxer from fighting him.
It should be simply made to be ship class Vs ship class or similar.
LETS GET IT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1173
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 09:58:00 -
[157] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Zagdul wrote:
This is unique to EVE.
So we end up with a slightly unique arena. Still doesnt change the outcome for the rest of the PVP out there, EVE arenas will kill it just as effectivly as the arenas in all those other games.
Again, you're wrong.
The people in the Arenas need to get their ships from somewhere. Ambitious alliance/corps/The Wiz, harvest these materials to build these ships/mods/wtf ever. This puts people in space who don't care about the "arena" and continue on with their daily life like a good citizen of New Eden.
These alliance/people create targets for the game to go fight. In fact, if EVE were more competitive, it'd draw more targets to shoot at.
With this game being on a single shard, single economy it makes it unique from any other game out there. The effects of an arena on EVE cannot be compared to other games because there's no game out there who can currently provide a model for basis. You or I don't truly know what the effect would be on EVE, we can only speculate. However, if your speculation is based on how they've effected other games then you are being ignorant disparity between EVE and every other game out there. Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
baltec1
Bat Country
3347
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:03:00 -
[158] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:The people in the Arenas need to get their ships from somewhere.
They get them from industialists like my alt. People who have no need to go blow up other people to build ships and mods. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
205
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:03:00 -
[159] - Quote
I am strictly against a model that extracts PvP activities from the current sandbox all-in-one-universe.
www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1173
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:03:00 -
[160] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Zagdul wrote:
You're wrong.
Where would the people get the ships that go into the arena from?
Same place as they do now. From grinding up isk in pve and buying them from industrialists.
Exactly... heh, you mean the targets who are currently widely available for all of us to shoot at? Who are the biggest draw for small gang engagements (home def etc.). You don't see this increasing by introducing more people who want to compete in EVE, thus drawing more industrialists to mine?
Opening up opportunities such as...
Suicide gankng the people harvesting the minerals (but with more targets). The ratters saving up to get into the solo arena (but, more of these now). The line member defending his alliance who controls moons, to feed the modules that go into the arena. Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1173
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:07:00 -
[161] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Zagdul wrote:The people in the Arenas need to get their ships from somewhere. They get them from industialists like my alt. People who have no need to go blow up other people to build ships and mods.
The point is: Your alt is in space, it's a valid target.
Just because 10 dudes are duking it out in an arena doesn't detract from the other... what 30k dudes logged in right now?
In fact, it draws people to EVE to potentially draw the 30k up to 40-50-6... etc. The more people on the server = more targets. Right now, EVE has no draw to bring in more targets.
Arena works for EVE. As it stands, it's Arenas or WiS for a 'big draw' to get people to play. Of those two, which would you rather have? Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
baltec1
Bat Country
3347
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:12:00 -
[162] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:
Exactly... heh, you mean the targets who are currently widely available for all of us to shoot at? Who are the biggest draw for small gang engagements (home def etc.). You don't see this increasing by introducing more people who want to compete in EVE, thus drawing more industrialists to mine?
Opening up opportunities such as...
Suicide gankng the people harvesting the minerals (but with more targets). The ratters saving up to get into the solo arena (but, more of these now). The line member defending his alliance who controls moons, to feed the modules that go into the arena.
Firstly, I have an industry alt and in the past year of daily trips to and from jita I have been attacked exactly zero times.
Secondly, you do not find all that many industrial targets out in null or lowsec
And thirdly, when we go roaming we want a fight, not ratters hiding in their POS.
Arenas will destroy the pvp out there because it is so much easyer to push a button to get action rather than hunting for it. The more people that use it the less you will find inthe rest of EVE which means more will join the arena and we quickly end up with the arena and nothing else.
It has happened every single time in every game that hasadded an arena. I do not want that to happen here too. |
baltec1
Bat Country
3348
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:16:00 -
[163] - Quote
Zagdul wrote: As it stands, it's Arenas or WiS for a 'big draw' to get people to play. Of those two, which would you rather have?
Neither. I will take what CCP are giving us right now with ship rebalances, bounty system, FW and the upcoming POS and moon goo changes. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1173
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:33:00 -
[164] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Zagdul wrote:
Exactly... heh, you mean the targets who are currently widely available for all of us to shoot at? Who are the biggest draw for small gang engagements (home def etc.). You don't see this increasing by introducing more people who want to compete in EVE, thus drawing more industrialists to mine?
Opening up opportunities such as...
Suicide gankng the people harvesting the minerals (but with more targets). The ratters saving up to get into the solo arena (but, more of these now). The line member defending his alliance who controls moons, to feed the modules that go into the arena.
Firstly, I have an industry alt and in the past year of daily trips to and from jita I have been attacked exactly zero times. Secondly, you do not find all that many industrial targets out in null or lowsec And thirdly, when we go roaming we want a fight, not ratters hiding in their POS. Arenas will destroy the pvp out there because it is so much easyer to push a button to get action rather than hunting for it. The more people that use it the less you will find inthe rest of EVE which means more will join the arena and we quickly end up with the arena and nothing else. It has happened every single time in every game that hasadded an arena. I do not want that to happen here too. In EVE, the battle grounds are where you pick a region, the 'world pvp' is when you undock. A gladiator arena of some form in EVE is missing. People need that level of completion, the ability to say "I'm the best".
Lets face it, it's going to happen eventually as there are far more pros in CCP's benefit than cons. Instead of rejecting the idea of an arena, develop it so it would work. For example, an arena you log in and queue up for would probably be bad.
On the other hand, if I could schedule a day next week for my team to go play a match that is publicized in a controlled arena with CCP officiators governing the match, I see an environment worthy of EVE online. Something that isn't like other Arenas.
Other games segregated off the PVP completely which killed the 'world pvp'. It had nothing to do with Arenas. When things like instanced PVP battlegrounds such as the ones in WOW, or the other billion clones who copied did it, they did it wrong simply on the segregation concept. Think about what the effect was of the Arena on those games. Two things I can see that caused the decline in all other PVP in other games were:
1. No destructible consumables in the arena. This KILLED other games because the people who ply the PVE aspects of the game had no reason to continue on in the regular 'world'. There was no reason for them to leave a city. PVE'ers logged in, chatted, go to 'raid/fleet/wtf ever" then logged out. PVP, sat in a city and never left while waiting for their queue window to pop up.
2. Multiple Servers With EVE being a single shard, if you win, you're the winner for the whole game, not just a realm. This gives people bragging rights, e-peen factor and competition that EVE is obviously wanting due to the sheer popularity of the Alliance Tournament.
My friends who can't stand playing EVE watch the Alliance Tournaments that go on. They however don't like EVE because in order to get a fight, I need to make a fleet, go on a roam for 4 hours and MAYBE I'll get a kill. Lets face it, EVE is VERY slow paced. This is fine for the vet or for people who are here for the niche genre.
This being a niche game, it's attracted a lot of people who don't ever want any aspect of it to ever change or evolve. It's rather closed minded. Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
baltec1
Bat Country
3348
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:40:00 -
[165] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:
This being a niche game, it's attracted a lot of people who don't ever want any aspect of it to ever change or evolve. It's rather closed minded.
Its why EVE is the only MMO to still be growing after 10 years. We don't do what everyone else does and that is why EVE works.
SWG did not segregate off its PVP from the rest of the world and still all other pvp outside of restus died off. Arenas are simply not compatible with EVE and offer nothing good for us. If you want to hold an event then use the tools we have right now. |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
221
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 10:55:00 -
[166] - Quote
Lord Wiggin wrote:Put Arenas in the major hubs, allow players to arrange matches. Televise the match's in local and perhaps in CQ's. (I want my remote CCP) Set up a betting system, with the house taking a cut. Part of the house cut goes to Isk prizes for the winner, based on a percentage of the take, so that the betting interest in the match directly affects the payout. Isk sink....
I was never in favor of Arenas, I felt they would be game breaking, but after watching people attempt to manipulate the suspect system to get 1 vs 1 day after day, maybe it's time. Outside of an Arena, there is no way to ensure a 1 vs 1. This solves the issue, provides passive entertainment for the couch potato/ship spinner types, as well as an isk sink. With the number of gambling sites run by players, isn't it time CCP got in on the action?
If you want this, go out and make it.
THAT is the point of eve.
Find a place where you can organize 1 vs 1 fights (low? NPC 0.0? WH?) Take bets on the people, then work out what you want to take as the cut.
this isn't WoW, CCP shouldn't be setting this up for you |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
88
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 11:05:00 -
[167] - Quote
AKilla Sunday wrote: It's funny how almost everyone against it hints at the fact they will not be able to pray on the weak and lame. Fact is you will still catch the same amount of PVE ships at gates or trough probing, same amount of industrial ships, nothing is going away if this is introduced, all the PVP that is sought after just by one side will still be there. The ones that roam low/null now will roam after such a feature is introduced just like someone above pointed out happened after RvB and such.
This is false. For instance I'm getting gasnked mostly. Is not this. People adverse to this kind of idea are simply EvE players, experienced enough to know or to feel as this kind of restricted/protected so-called PvP is disruptive for the the single-shard sandbox model and is against EvE background, lore, settings and nature.
Having abstract random ideas is easy (PvP arenas, genial! none thought to it before) but one should keep in count the settings of the game, their history and the playerbase background.
As well as this continuosly demanding to rewrite/modify core mechanics to adapt to players too lazy to play the game as it is is becoming annoying and not productive at all.
Is like a guy going to a vegetarian restaurant and ordering a steak:
"Sorry Sir, we do not serve meat here, it's a vegetarian restaurant" "oh, why not? I don't understand, why don't yuou serve meat? I want a steak, you should change"
|
Nalha Saldana
Syneptics Inc. AL3XAND3R.
362
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 11:05:00 -
[168] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The idea isn't without merit, but would have to be done very carefully in a game such as Eve.
I would like to see us provide more and better support and tools for those players who are running or want to run their own tournaments and leagues. I think the Alliance Tournaments and New Eden Open have proved there's a place for sporting events in a game like Eve, and those kind of events are even better when they are player initiated and run.
I do agree that there is a problem with adding this in EvE but if you look at other great esports games they all have some kind of rated league system where all people can play every day and then the biggest ones meet up in the organized tournaments and those draw more audience because of the league that others do play in.
I think that if EvE is supposed to have a esports value then you need organized arenas that run all the time with a rating system that everyone can see.
Should we have esports in EvE tho? I'm not so sure its a good idea.. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
206
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 11:33:00 -
[169] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The idea isn't without merit, but would have to be done very carefully in a game such as Eve.
I would like to see us provide more and better support and tools for those players who are running or want to run their own tournaments and leagues. I think the Alliance Tournaments and New Eden Open have proved there's a place for sporting events in a game like Eve, and those kind of events are even better when they are player initiated and run. I do agree that there is a problem with adding this in EvE but if you look at other great esports games they all have some kind of rated league system where all people can play every day and then the biggest ones meet up in the organized tournaments and those draw more audience because of the league that others do play in. I think that if EvE is supposed to have a esports value then you need organized arenas that run all the time with a rating system that everyone can see. Should we have esports in EvE tho? I'm not so sure its a good idea..
On another server it would be doable. But not in the "real" EvE I assume. But again, that would kinda "extract" the pvp activities out of the sandbox.
www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance |
Shajden
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 11:35:00 -
[170] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:If people actually want that they just need to create a chat channel to arrange fights, and i'm only say because i have no idea on how the RvB thing ended
RvB is alive and well. And usually a very good chance to find 1vs1. The fleet fights in there are usually balanced between the 2 fc's aswell so properly the closest thing you can come to arena. |
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
88
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 11:44:00 -
[171] - Quote
Shajden wrote:well. And usually a very good chance to find 1vs1. The fleet fights in there are usually balanced between the 2 fc's aswell so properly the closest thing you can come to arena.
You guys will be the first victims of an embended arena system. Years of players driven gameplay and effort just trashed. And then the rest.
|
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
496
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 12:11:00 -
[172] - Quote
I don't really like this idea, if there was arena pvp in place I doubt I'd ever undock for solo roaming anymore.
I already switched to FW partly because it massively reduces the time necessary to find "fair" fights, if arenas would cut that time down to virtually zero I'd certainly make extensive use of them (at the expense of all other areas of the game).
I don't agree with Zagdul's argument that farmers would still lead to fights - farming in 0.0 is barely worthwhile in terms of risk vs reward, most 0.0 players I know earn their living in the safety of high-sec.
Disrupting an enemies' income is generally not the reason for taking out a roam, if you want to do that (and that is only really possible for terrible pets and renters as everyone else had to tick a "self-sufficient" box on application and doesn't rely on 0.0 for personal income) you use cloakies and covert drops. Similarly you post a home defense fleet because you like pvp, not because you actually want to defend your income streams. Putting up a fight only attracts more roaming gangs to your territory whereas blueballing will usually make the roamers disperse after 5-15 minutes.
I think that the introduction of arenas would lead to a lot less roaming by solo players and small gangs. It would also massively change the skills that are important in EVE pvp - currently the skills of finding a suitable target (reading the map, dscan, splitting enemies, assessing the strength of your targets, ...) are at least as important as the actual combat skills itself. That part of the game would mostly vanish if small-scale pvp was moved to arenas. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Leah Solo
Lag No Use
55
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 12:22:00 -
[173] - Quote
Zagdul wrote: A gladiator arena of some form in EVE is missing. People need that level of completion, the ability to say "I'm the best".
Yes, for the ones that wish to track their pvp prowess, there is a thing called killboard. You can even api verify it.
Quote:Lets face it, it's going to happen eventually as there are far more pros in CCP's benefit than cons. No it's not..cause there are obviously more cons. As was being stated numerous times already.
Quote:My friends who can't stand playing EVE watch the Alliance Tournaments that go on. They however don't like EVE That's ok..I enjoy watching parkour on youtube, but don't enjoy practicing it. Not everything is for everyone. So..your point?
Quote:because in order to get a fight, I need to make a fleet, go on a roam for 4 hours and MAYBE I'll get a kill. Lets face it, EVE is VERY slow paced. This is fine for the vet or for people who are here for the niche genre. This is a dirty ignorant lie. And that repeating mantra really puts alot of people off pvp and roaming. Which is sad really, cause null and low provide plenty of good fights. Getting blobbed is an exception rather than rule. Also a need to have 100mil sp before you can do anything in pvp is another ignorant myth. But yeah..it's easier to shoot rats all day and whine.
Quote:This being a niche game, it's attracted a lot of people who don't ever want any aspect of it to ever change or evolve. It's rather closed minded. Seems to me you are the one with a closed mind. Everything you ask for in the infamous 'Arena' is already possible and can be realized by the existing game mechanics.
Heck there is even a completely separate server where you can have free arena like fights.
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Ur235
FATAL Warfare Reckless Faith
57
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 12:27:00 -
[174] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Ur235 wrote:Stupid idea if people could enter arenas and fight instead of roaming to find fights then it would be the end of 90% of all roams because hardly anyone would bother going on a roam if they can get an instant fights in some arena, and space would become even emptier than it is now You're wrong. Where would the people get the ships that go into the arena from?
From JITA??? hmm |
Aracimia Wolfe
The Cursed Navy
122
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 12:47:00 -
[175] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Theresa Lamont wrote:baltec1 wrote: We have seen what happened in other MMOs. The PVP outside the arena died out in a matter of days because it is so much easier to get fights at the press of a button. Highly possible. You have examples? Restus in SWG. The moment it hit pvp everywhere else died.
Confirming that killing speeders on a spy was much easier there than anywhere else
I like my coffee like I like my men. In a plastic cup http://aracimia.blogspot.co.uk/ |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Bitten.
700
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 13:29:00 -
[176] - Quote
The point is there is absolutely no need for this mechanic. There are already plenty of ways to find pvp, but a few wow-mind carebear twonks want things to cater to them even more, they don't want to experience the many kinds of pvp and existing game areas there already are, they want something entirely un-EVE like that they're familiar with and which is a lot less effort and a lot more on their own terms (aka WOW).
And lets not forget the massive detrimental effect these stupid ideas would have on areas of space which are ALREADY underpopulated and under utilized
Summary: Idiotic idea, please ignore |
fukier
RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 15:07:00 -
[177] - Quote
this is my idea for this:
fukier wrote:time to drag out the dead horse... i wrote this two years ago but now with can flopping being dead this seems to be prudent... So my proposal is setting up a contract system that is sanctioned by Concord that allows said parties to temp declare war on each other (time period max 30 min)GǪ timmer starts once contract has been accepted... The cost would be 5 million processing fee paid by each partyGǪ and there would be a betting price set by each partyGǪ Each bet price would be negotiable between the parties and would not have to be the same amount. The fights would run under war declaration rules but only the involved parties would be allowed to shoot each other or affect each other in any wayGǪ so that means any members of a gang or allies or corp mates would not be allowed to RR or shoot at either party at penalty of getting a suspect flagGǪ here is how you win 1. whomever does more total damage (this includes repped damage) to the other player wins only the isk at risk... (this is in the situation where niether player can kill the other) 2. if a player leaves the field of combat (250km radius from start of fight) then the other player wins the isk at risk... 3. which ever player is left alive after the fight gets salvage rights to the wreak and the isk at risk... and yes observers can bet money one who will win... they can enter the contract by right clicking on involved chars and adding money to the pool...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
801
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 15:24:00 -
[178] - Quote
If you ignore the OP itself, don't think of it as "WoW style arena", and instead think of it in "EVE terms" it's not a bad idea.
The EVE tournaments, but player driven, and tools that facilitate the ability to bet on the outcomes.
I wouldn't mind a system dedicated to providing arenas for people to schedule matches. A jita like system with beacons that we can warp to to watch a match, or have them broadcast on monitors in space or in the CQ.
Players in the system can schedule matches for random apponents or schedule a match against someone specifically. And I mean SCHEDULE. As in, you schedule a match for X date, around Y time. You know, when you know you'll be on and you'd like to participate. If you have enough system the schedule should be managable and create "regional champions".
They could even have GM run fight events periodically where the best people in the various regions will fight for "the belt" tha they would hold for a period of time.
I'm sure that CCP is capable of developing the system tools needed to mimic something like BOXING.
WoW arenas are horrible.
EVE "arenas" could be frigging awesome.
OP should just delete his OP and then copy/ paste this post in it's place.
PS: The AT's would be the olympics of EVE, this would be the boxing. |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
204
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 15:58:00 -
[179] - Quote
Lord Wiggin wrote:Set up a betting system
I can see all sorts of new scams arising out of people gaming such a system. Other than that, this idea is without merit. If you want arenas, there are tons of other games that have them. Can't we have one, just one game that is different. Please?
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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
802
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 16:11:00 -
[180] - Quote
Maxpie wrote:Lord Wiggin wrote:Set up a betting system I can see all sorts of new scams arising out of people gaming such a system. Other than that, this idea is without merit. If you want arenas, there are tons of other games that have them. Can't we have one, just one game that is different. Please? Or that would be one of the pluses of a betting system.
People being able to manipulate ods. Just because it would be a "bad act" doesn't make it a "bad idea", or "unfun".
There is no such thing as unmanipualted ods, the fact that they exist means that someone is already manipulating something. Gambling is a scam by it's very nature.
Stop thinking about WoW arenas, the OP is off his rocker. Instead think EVE and tools. Because that would be a great addition to the game. |
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