So I've been around the Knights of the New Order area for a few days now and I'd like to say the following:

First, I am also opposed to AFK mining. In fact, any AFK activities. Back when Ultima Online came on, I was with a ganking squad that took out AFK skill builders. So I know where the idea is coming from. And if they did nothing but AFK miner harassment, I'd pay them 100m ISK for their work.

However, they do not target AFK miners but require all miners to pay 10m to be left alone. That's extortion and I don't abide by it. They have destroyed many non AFK miners through their exploits.

And there is no fighting them. For the most part, they are on throw away characters. I have only seen two that are over 30 days old. They don't care about their ships and the bounties they produce when killed are pitiful. In essence, they are causing harassment. The fact that most aren't using their main characters to do this lets you know that they also know it is wrong. The game punishes people for such harassment so they're avoiding it with the new characters.

Now many people say 'so what?' Fair enough, the game does have things that can be used to defend against them. Because of their low value ships and tactics, a bit of armoring can protect you from them until Concord arrives. I've seen it happen a few times. But the game doesn't really allow for proper defense against their tactics.

That's why I suggest if you really feel that they're harassing you, send a petition about it - even if you think it won't do anything. One, or even a hundred won't cause them to move but thousands may have them perk up and take notice.

In the end, I like the idea that they started with, but now it's just become a bully group that there is no real way to stop them.

My guess is they all have great incomes from there other alts are some goo ISK rolling in with little effort.And it would be fine if they had to live with the consequence of their actions but they don't, sure all the alts will disappear in a short while and new ones will appear and repeat.Now if i lost my 40 mil investment while grinding for just 4 mil a hour in a ice field in 07 space I would start to think the cards are all stacked against new players and its pointless.At least use your main alt and stop hideing behind two months old alts if your all for the cause.

And there is no fighting them. For the most part, they are on throw away characters. I have only seen two that are over 30 days old. They don't care about their ships and the bounties they produce when killed are pitiful. In essence, they are causing harassment. The fact that most aren't using their main characters to do this lets you know that they also know it is wrong. The game punishes people for such harassment so they're avoiding it with the new characters.

Let address what appears to be a common misconception. The ganking alts are not created to be temporary alts, because recycling them, in an attempt to avoid penalties associated with low security status, is against the EULA.

Maybe us new players should get some cheap ships and go and pod the one day old accounts coming out of a station unless they pay us 10 mil sure CCP would like that . Its the same principle as what New order is trying to do and its a game breaker.

damn if only ccp was somehow able to detect alt recycling and give out warnings

by the way the facts that knights of the new order are dedicated alts and continue operating at -10 should tip you off that they're not recycling

Maybe you lack the imagination, experience, or coordination necessary to counter our tactics. It's funny how all the miners with the sense to fly procurers don't get ganked, and don't show up to complain in this forum thread.

This attitude is all too common in highsec miners, and is exactly the attitude the New Order opposes. This is why we do what we do.

Maybe you should - others are doing it already.

You can remove one of the three characters in your account and make a new one in it's place, thereby zeroing out to a 'new' character. I give props to those that actually are more than a month old. But the majority of them decided that it wasn't a cause worth using their mains on. Because the game mechanics would 'punish' them for it.

You do what you do beause the majority of people don't like what you're doing? That is one definition of a harasser. I mine in hi-sec so I don't have to deal with people using cowardly or petty tactics to interrupt my game. That's what Hi-sec is suppose to be about - no matter what the lag time of CONCORD is.

Oh, and I should note that even those that pay the 10m 'permit fee' still wind up being blown up.

Don't tell him that. There's a huge difference between actual newbies still in the tutorials and a newish player a month old. The gamemasters expand the definition of harassment greatly when it comes to rookies. If I remember a GM post I saw correctly, the rules aren't absolutely set but are to the spirit of 'don't **** with rookies'.

The difference is between ganking a player who doesn't know how to move their ship and ganking a month-old who understands game mechanics to the extent of being able to support themselves and affect other players in a meaningful way. A month-old who can avoid danger if they think, pay attention and realise that sometimes they have to compromise. EVE is harsh and you* can't define yourself as a rookie for as long as you find it convenient to the detriment of the game of those around you.

*e: not you

You do what you do beause the majority of people don't like what you're doing? That is one definition of a harasser.

I mine in hi-sec so I don't have to deal with people using cowardly or petty tactics to interrupt my game. That's what Hi-sec is suppose to be about - no matter what the lag time of CONCORD is.

And it would be fine if they had to live with the consequence of their actions but they don't, sure all the alts will disappear in a short while and new ones will appear and repeat.

My expriance with the so called new order last night

Four months in to eve and still enjoying it apart from a few things like the sheer expense of every thing in game and the lack of financial reward from missions exploration and mining compared to the costs of good ships and good moduals .I am slowly working though all the different ways to play the game and decided to invest in a blueprint research in and build some stuff as well as exploration and running missions.Unless you want to grind for endless hours you have no option but to buy plex and well as you 10 euro a month sub at least for the fist year.

I Invested 30 mil in a retriever and 7 mil on insurance and another 10 mil on fitting it out to mine some ice now that's almost 40 mil there.It takes many hours of game play for a new player to get 40 mil.I found a ice Field last night in brapelille 07 and started to mine some blue ice.Seemed to take for ages to fill up the ore hold and to my surprise about 1 hour on mining blueice only yielded me 4 million isk .So that would work out at 10 hours of mining blue ice just to cover the cost of what i spent on the equipment and ship.

Understand that as the weeks , months, years pass and i improve my skills and equipment that the yield will increase.But at the moment as a new player this is were i am.So i am sitting mining the ice and i notice some odd behaviour and ships coming in and out of the sector and some one talking about having to pay 100 million for a licence to mine ice in the area .I Align my ship to the gate and got ready to jump and sure enough 1 min later 8 catalysts warp in on a suicide mission i warp out and manage to get away.

I changed ship and returned to the sector to see what happened and i noticed that the player who was mining ice next to me did not make it out and lost his ship and he was Not AFK are a Bot.Now unless he was using a alt this player was also a new player like my self according to his profile.So i read the local chatter and it turns out the new order is trying to run a extortion racket on the mine field.Plain to see that they were all alts used by experienced eve players to suicide miners under the guise of a supposed cause.

My guess is they all have great incomes from there other alts are some goo ISK rolling in with little effort.And it would be fine if they had to live with the consequence of their actions but they don't, sure all the alts will disappear in a short while and new ones will appear and repeat.Now if i lost my 40 mil investment while grinding for just 4 mil a hour in a ice field in 07 space I would start to think the cards are all stacked against new players and its pointless.At least use your main alt and stop hideing behind two months old alts if your all for the cause.

Its just experienced bored players, with lots of spare ISK preying upon new players for laughs and giggles and in the end i am sure all it will do is turn new players away from the game.I would be happy with this if these people stayed with these characters and used them as their main but they dont .Just seems a lame war to fight to me, plenty battles out there they could get involved in with people who can fight back.

Not saying all high sec should be safe have no problem with losing a ship in high sec and if ccp want to make it more of a challenge throw in some harder AI at high sec mining sites i just think experienced players with ISK to burn who suicide new players who grinds for hours and days weeks to make a start in the game is bad for the game.The use of alts just make it all pointless and why on earth would any station let wanted players dock in it anyway.If ccp want to stop people AFK mining are bots they should introduce a new mineing system

Maybe us new players should get some cheap ships and go and pod the one day old accounts coming out of a station unless they pay us 10 mil sure CCP would like that . Its the same principle as what New order is trying to do and its a game breaker.

my game.

It's Our game dude, not single player.

I don't think you understand what the majority of EVE players want and don't want. The only definition of harassment that's relevant in this discussion is the definition used by CCP - everything else is just people complaining about how their feelings have been hurt because something bad happened to them.

Highsec is not a place where you can play uninterrupted. There is no place for that aside from being docked in station. Non-consensual player interaction is not isolated to lowsec and zerosec. What you *want* highsec to be is not what highsec *is*, nor what it *should* be.

Don't tell him that. There's a huge difference between actual newbies still in the tutorials and a newish player a month old. The gamemasters expand the definition of harassment greatly when it comes to rookies. If I remember a GM post I saw correctly, the rules aren't absolutely set but are to the spirit of 'don't **** with rookies'.

The difference is between ganking a player who doesn't know how to move their ship and ganking a month-old who understands game mechanics to the extent of being able to support themselves and affect other players in a meaningful way. A month-old who can avoid danger if they think, pay attention and realise that sometimes they have to compromise. EVE is harsh and you* can't define yourself as a rookie for as long as you find it convenient to the detriment of the game of those around you.

*e: not you

Don't worry i have no Intention of doing this was just used as a example.Its just about risk and reward and loss ,These members of the new order have nothing to lose so hence they cant ever lose the only people who lose are the victems.New miners who invest in a ship and fit to mine ice have a great deal to lose..

As i said if they used there main char i would be fine with this and i can see how it adds to the game and it brings a bit more variety and game play to high sec which is good. And it brings a bit more fun to mining and maybe encourages more people to get involved in PVP etc

But lets have them put some of there assets on the line and stop hiding behind 1 month old alts .CCP should put harder enemy AI around mining sites if they want to make sure people are playing when they are mining.Lets see how many of these alts are still logging on in 1 month.

And your alliance sa.... Oh wait, your just a shiptoasting npc alt, your argument is invalid.

Nvm then, carry on.

Please gank in your mains.

Due to the mandatory "Throttling" by Canadian ISP's my last experience with new order was:
Reds jump into belt, hit warp to station,screen freezes - 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, wake up in new pod 15 jumps away. A thrilling experience to be sure.

Now I have killrights for 7 or 8 new players flying catalysts- whoopee! I'm sure I'll catch a few in Bawilan or Brapellille, but really not worth more than a couple hours to pop pilots with nothing ships.

I don't consider it griefing, but still I mine in my main, please gank in yours.

Please gank in your mains.

Due to the mandatory "Throttling" by Canadian ISP's my last experience with new order was:
Reds jump into belt, hit warp to station,screen freezes - 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, wake up in new pod 15 jumps away. A thrilling experience to be sure.

Now I have killrights for 7 or 8 new players flying catalysts- whoopee! I'm sure I'll catch a few in Bawilan or Brapellille, but really not worth more than a couple hours to pop pilots with nothing ships.

I don't consider it griefing, but still I mine in my main, please gank in yours.

Having been a miner, I know a number of methods to foil bumpers. I've never seen anyone employ them.

Having spent a fair bit of time observing the activities of the New Order, I know several ways they could be effectively countered until they adapted with a strategy that would be far less efficient for them. There have been times I could have done considerable damage to their operations if it had suited me.

However, I will not reveal my secrets for free, as I highly enjoy watching these guys work. In fact I invited them into a system and watched the drama unfold over several days. It was great fun.

Want to know what I know? Make an offer.

I like your style, watching them work is pretty amusing, they're getting pretty good at forcibly clearing systems of people who don't pay them.

Now I have killrights for 7 or 8 new players flying catalysts- whoopee!

There is little point, however, as you can be fairly certain that they will all be biomassed by the end of the month and replaced with new disposable suicide gank alts.

There is little point, however, as you can be fairly certain that they will all be biomassed by the end of the month and replaced with new disposable suicide gank alts.