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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages
Shadow Cartel
226
   |
Posted - 2014.04.09 17:41:00 -
[451] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:I think the phantasm is going to be pretty damn op with 5 lows in 10mn or 100mn ab setups. Now it can fit a 100mn without destroying it's dps.
The problem with the 100MN AB fit is that with the 100% speed bonus you're getting ~2701 m/s without links or implants (according to CCP Rise) which sounds really nice except that keep in mind you will have no agility to speak of. I can't remember if they changed the Phantasm's agility in the F&I thread but with its current stats it has an align time of over 37 seconds with max skills and without anything other than the AB fit to it. So both of these stats can be improved.
The issue is that at that speed with agility that bad it will be a nightmare trying to stay in point/gun range. I was a big fan of the 100MN Oracle before its agility was nerfed but that because large pulses with scorch have optimal over 50 km making it possible to hold damage on target. I'm, shall we say, less than convinced that it will be easy to prevent people using your overshoot to break point range.
I think the better option would be the 10MN fit with snakes and/or skirmish links as all you're getting there is a big move in the right direction for your critical damage mitigation ratio of speed to signature. |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
136
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 18:02:00 -
[452] - Quote
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:Drake Doe wrote:I think the phantasm is going to be pretty damn op with 5 lows in 10mn or 100mn ab setups. Now it can fit a 100mn without destroying it's dps. The problem with the 100MN AB fit is that with the 100% speed bonus you're getting ~2701 m/s without links or implants (according to CCP Rise) which sounds really nice except that keep in mind you will have no agility to speak of. I can't remember if they changed the Phantasm's agility in the F&I thread but with its current stats it has an align time of over 37 seconds with max skills and without anything other than the AB fit to it. So both of these stats can be improved. The issue is that at that speed with agility that bad it will be a nightmare trying to stay in point/gun range. I was a big fan of the 100MN Oracle before its agility was nerfed but that because large pulses with scorch have optimal over 50 km making it possible to hold damage on target. I'm, shall we say, less than convinced that it will be easy to prevent people using your overshoot to break point range. I think the better option would be the 10MN fit with snakes and/or skirmish links as all you're getting there is a big move in the right direction for your critical damage mitigation ratio of speed to signature.
I too am leaning towards the 10mn fit. With a little pimp you will be able to crank a pretty high, non scram-able speed. Throw a nano or 2 in the lows, some snakes, halos or crystals in your head, and some skirmish/siege links and you should be able to tank/mitigate a fair amount of damage. Obviously we will have to see how it actually plays but I have high hopes. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages
Shadow Cartel
226
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 07:00:00 -
[453] - Quote
I should add that if you are fitting an AB to a phantasm instead of an MWD you won't lose a chunk of your capacitor which will help quite a bit with the phantasm's poor cap especially since the capacitor is getting a bit of a buff. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages
Shadow Cartel
226
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 07:02:00 -
[454] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Valleria Darkmoon wrote:Drake Doe wrote:I think the phantasm is going to be pretty damn op with 5 lows in 10mn or 100mn ab setups. Now it can fit a 100mn without destroying it's dps. The problem with the 100MN AB fit is that with the 100% speed bonus you're getting ~2701 m/s without links or implants (according to CCP Rise) which sounds really nice except that keep in mind you will have no agility to speak of. I can't remember if they changed the Phantasm's agility in the F&I thread but with its current stats it has an align time of over 37 seconds with max skills and without anything other than the AB fit to it. So both of these stats can be improved. The issue is that at that speed with agility that bad it will be a nightmare trying to stay in point/gun range. I was a big fan of the 100MN Oracle before its agility was nerfed but that because large pulses with scorch have optimal over 50 km making it possible to hold damage on target. I'm, shall we say, less than convinced that it will be easy to prevent people using your overshoot to break point range. I think the better option would be the 10MN fit with snakes and/or skirmish links as all you're getting there is a big move in the right direction for your critical damage mitigation ratio of speed to signature. I too am leaning towards the 10mn fit. With a little pimp you will be able to crank a pretty high, non scram-able speed. Throw a nano or 2 in the lows, some snakes, halos or crystals in your head, and some skirmish/siege links and you should be able to tank/mitigate a fair amount of damage. Obviously we will have to see how it actually plays but I have high hopes.
Republic fleet or Shadow Serpentis look pretty good for the cost going deadspace REALLY boosts the cost for not a huge amount more benefit.
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Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 17:14:00 -
[455] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Nightmare with an AB bonus, extra low and buffed capacitor and shield regen would be interesting. Definitely better than the existing Nightmare for PvP atleast.
Edit: Phantasm Changes are up a base speed was massively buffed.
TBH anything is better than the current PVP status of the nightmare.
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Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
136
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 17:31:00 -
[456] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:Nightmare with an AB bonus, extra low and buffed capacitor and shield regen would be interesting. Definitely better than the existing Nightmare for PvP atleast.
Edit: Phantasm Changes are up a base speed was massively buffed. TBH anything is better than the current PVP status of the nightmare.
For PvP it will still end up roughly on par with a Fleet Pest but with better projection. Not sure that it will be worth the isk. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
1051
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 17:36:00 -
[457] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:Nightmare with an AB bonus, extra low and buffed capacitor and shield regen would be interesting. Definitely better than the existing Nightmare for PvP atleast.
Edit: Phantasm Changes are up a base speed was massively buffed. TBH anything is better than the current PVP status of the nightmare. For PvP it will still end up roughly on par with a Fleet Pest but with better projection. Not sure that it will be worth the isk.
Yeah of course it won't be worth it.
All pirate faction BS have a role and perform the best at it, besides the NM.
Vindi: Best brawler.
Mach: Best kiter.
Bhaal: Best neuter.
Rattle: Best tanker....
Nightmare: Best looking??? |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
136
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 18:14:00 -
[458] - Quote
Vindi is the best looking. The Nightmares projection is underrated. It's not as good as a Senty/Cruise Paper Rattler but still very good. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
1051
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 18:21:00 -
[459] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Vindi is the best looking. The Nightmares projection is underrated. It's not as good as a Senty/Cruise Paper Rattler but still very good.
Mach can project any damage type without cap, has better alpha, and goes faster. |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
136
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 18:24:00 -
[460] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:Vindi is the best looking. The Nightmares projection is underrated. It's not as good as a Senty/Cruise Paper Rattler but still very good. Mach can project any damage type without cap, has better alpha, and goes faster.
It can't project it's full DPS at the same range though. People get it twisted, falloff is not the same as optimal. Obviously the Mach is a better ship in every other way imaginable. All I said was the NM projects it DPS well. That is all. |
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Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
1053
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 18:33:00 -
[461] - Quote
But even a vindi with 425mm can project damage better than a NM.
Then you add a full set of sentry drones which the vindi can carry and you get a completely better sniping boat.
The ONLY reason to use a nightmare is because of incursions, and that is only because their damage types are good against sansha rats. Otherwise they would be worthless for that too. |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
136
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:07:00 -
[462] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:But even a vindi with 425mm can project damage better than a NM.
Then you add a full set of sentry drones which the vindi can carry and you get a completely better sniping boat.
The ONLY reason to use a nightmare is because of incursions, and that is only because their damage types are good against sansha rats. Otherwise they would be worthless for that too.
I was thinking about Pulses vs ACs/Blasters. NM's access to scorch is a boon. Either way, everyone agrees that the NM is the weakest of the Pirate BS's for PvP and it is not at all close. |
VanKenMar
Beach Boys
C0VEN
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 04:20:00 -
[463] - Quote
The war has been won!
Phantasm has a new stats, hope we will see more of this beauty around..but i am still a little dissapointed about scan ress which is still not accepted, will b e problem to catch anything smaller then cruizer, but we can not have all, yes?
Forget about 100MN AB Phanatsm..as someone wrote here align 37 sec with short range dps, pointless, one more thing..less cpu and gp, will be very tight fit. 10MN AB looks like the proper fit. Of coursce i will try 100mn ab fit, but i think it will be useless. With short or even long point if enemy is smart, just cross Your course and before You will be able to turn (more like switch off ab) he dissapear in warp speed.
My vision of future is..Phanatsm as a support dps ship, assisted by interceptors or dictors.
There will be still small chance to fight with alone, just will be hard to catch enemy..after this Phanatsm will kill most of its prey. |
iddyh
Vicis Inter Astrum
Solar Destiny
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 06:20:00 -
[464] - Quote
I have not seen any patch notes about phantasm change...
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Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages
Shadow Cartel
226
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 06:46:00 -
[465] - Quote
VanKenMar wrote:Forget about 100MN AB Phanatsm..as someone wrote here align 37 sec with short range dps, pointless, one more thing..less cpu and gp, will be very tight fit. 10MN AB looks like the proper fit. Of coursce i will try 100mn ab fit, but i think it will be useless. With short or even long point if enemy is smart, just cross Your course and before You will be able to turn (more like switch off ab) he dissapear in warp speed.
That was me and the 37 second align time with 100MN was with only the AB fitted to the ship and a clean clone, without links. A quick recheck of the notes for the Phantasm and none of the mobility stats are changing other than the base speed of the ship so even though I'm using current EFT stats the align time won't change.
With 2 T2 nanos and 2 T2 polycarbs with links you can get the align time down to ~21 seconds and if you are really nutty you can get it down to 15.5 with a full nomad set plus all of the above. At this point though you are sinking at least a couple billion into a faction cruiser (if you include the cost of your clone and link Loki) so at what point would you deem the upgrade no longer worth it? Another thing to note as well is that with only the 100MN AB and HPLs fitted the fit is already over on PG using the current Phantasm and the PG is going DOWN with the patch. Getting a little into the speculative now but it sounds as if getting any kind of tank onto the ship will be very difficult if you oversize the AB so a Rapier and you're sunk. 20 km disappears very quickly at probably over 3 km/s even if your target isn't moving at all, this is especially true when you are looking at taking at least 20 seconds to turn back around. I just don't think 20 km optimal is going to be enough to be effective assuming you will have to downsize to FMPL and use scorch. Bottom line for me is I feel a faction 10MN AB and snakes is probably going to be the better way to go. Most oversized afterburners that work well use ships that project farther than 20 km, Oracles I mentioned already could hit over 50 km and old HML Tengus were another common one, again can hit well past 20 km. I'm just not seeing the benefit of the 100MN beyond escape ability which will undoubtedly fail you at some point. The only thing you will kill is tacklers that are trying to hold webs on you and if you don't kill them his friends will kill you.
As for the scan res, unless it is getting nerfed, it is a little low for a cruiser but the lock time difference amounts to a fraction of a second in most cases though it would be nice to see it get bumped up just a little.
I'll need to get into the ship with an updated EFT to really check all this out though before I make final decisions. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages
Shadow Cartel
226
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 06:49:00 -
[466] - Quote
iddyh wrote:I have not seen any patch notes about phantasm change...
Here you are good sir.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=335364&find=unread
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