Very good information in here.

I really hate that logi 5 is required to fly by most groups. This pilot has a very strong set of skills (in terms of shield skills I'm missing lvl 5 on a couple of the reinforcement damage types and that's it), can fly a basi or a scimi, can field tech 2 shield drones (not to mention countless other fitting skills). However, she is useless for another 20-some days while she trains logi 5. I have a second toon for incursions because this one has horrible gallente and minnie faction standing, and he will be ready for incursions 10 hours after this one, despite having half as many skill points. In general, he will not be as strong, but he will be able to match the fittings and have logi v (and oddly enough he will be able to fly a guardian as well as a basi and scimi).

Sorry for the mini-rant. I know the extra 15% cap use reduction is important, but having to train the support skill to 5 is murder. I imagine I could top off several other skills in that 20 day window.

Are there any fleets that are more lenient on the logi 5 requirement, assuming the pilot can field a strong ship otherwise? (don't even bother asking about fielding a dps ship, my SP are heavy into missiles with almost no hybrids or other guns)

Will I be able to do incursions in navy apoc if I don't have all t2 mods? I have t2 defense (reps/hardeners), but not offense.

Will I be able to do incursions in navy apoc if I don't have all t2 mods? I have t2 defense (reps/hardeners), but not offense.

Anyone uses tengus in incursions these days? Or are they pretty much obsolete?

Hi Goldiiee, thanks again for the great feedback you have been giving. Lots of good stuff here.

I have a question in rerdards to dps vs logi role? Which role would give a spot in an incursion fleet quicker as a newish player? LIke is the waiting list shorter for Logi pilots or is the wait just as long as it is for a dps role? I mean I am sure there are a lot of dps pilots waiting for a spot but are there just as many logi pilots waiting as well?

Traditionally support pilots are always needed and hard to come by because most people would rather dps than doing logi stuff.

My toon is fully skilled towards tengu, but to be more flexable and able to fly with different groups or at least with groups that dont take T3, I would either need to train for BS or go the logi route. Any advivce would be appreciate it. Thank you!


P. Blue

I really hate giving out this advice, because I could be really wrong. So instead I will give you the stats that apply to your question. An 'average' fleet brings 1 logistics for every 4 DPS give or take. So you would think that there is a surplus of underemployed Logistics pilots running around. But in reality I see more underemployed DPS pilots; this is probably due to the long training requirement for Logistics V. Whereas a DPS pilot can be somewhat effective without any specialized training to V.

So that would be how I see it. Still not very helpful I fear, so I will add that many of the logistics pilots I have know cross train into a DPS role, and vice versa DPS to Logistics. With both roles covered they tend to ask for fleet invites by simply putting GÇÿLogi/DPSGÇÖ up as their X for fleet invite.

With your skills already at V for Caldari cruisers your logistic skills are probably easier to attain than the currently preferred turret DPS. But Tengus are still used by many of the less specialized (restrictive) communities. So before I tell you to make a new training plan you should check with TVP (they have the broadest connections) and see if they know anywhere your Tengu would be welcome in fleet. I guess only one more thing to add, the most needed pilot in all of the incursion communities are FCGÇÖs, as they are always needed, and there is no training que for it, except time in fleet.

Will stop typing now I seem to be rambling, and dont feel like I help much at all.

I really hate giving out this advice, because I could be really wrong. So instead I will give you the stats that apply to your question. An 'average' fleet brings 1 logistics for every 4 DPS give or take. So you would think that there is a surplus of underemployed Logistics pilots running around. But in reality I see more underemployed DPS pilots; this is probably due to the long training requirement for Logistics V. Whereas a DPS pilot can be somewhat effective without any specialized training to V.

So that would be how I see it. Still not very helpful I fear, so I will add that many of the logistics pilots I have know cross train into a DPS role, and vice versa DPS to Logistics. With both roles covered they tend to ask for fleet invites by simply putting GÇÿLogi/DPSGÇÖ up as their X for fleet invite.

With your skills already at V for Caldari cruisers your logistic skills are probably easier to attain than the currently preferred turret DPS. But Tengus are still used by many of the less specialized (restrictive) communities. So before I tell you to make a new training plan you should check with TVP (they have the broadest connections) and see if they know anywhere your Tengu would be welcome in fleet. I guess only one more thing to add, the most needed pilot in all of the incursion communities are FCGÇÖs, as they are always needed, and there is no training que for it, except time in fleet.

Will stop typing now I seem to be rambling, and dont feel like I help much at all.

Are you able to recommend a FC maybe yourself that I could hook up with (in game) to get some FC advice/recommendations/direction?

I would be happy to give you a rundown of FC duties and some pointer on how to get heading in the right direction, next time your online look me up in ISN secondary, or open a private convo and I can get you on comms and answer any questions you have.

I had a few conversations yesterday about becoming an FC, and I realised that there wasnGÇÖt a lot of hard information on this, even though it is the most important role in fleet PVE so here are some thought on the matter.

Skills
First and foremost you will need wing command skills to 2 for a VG fleet, this will allow you to fleet warp and ditrubute bonuses to 2 squads, or 21 pilots (including yourself). Assault might be able to be run at Wing Command 2 but I wouldnGÇÖt advise it. Wing Command 4 is the minimum for running HQGÇÖs but just barely, similar to assaults with Wing Command 2, you can do it but there is no room for errors.

Ship
FC ship types have changed over time, originally a monster tank was the FC ship of choice (My first FC was sporting a 200k EHP tank), pretty much anything that could survive the first wave and keep the FC on the field, as the mechanics have been more closely observed groups have found a comfort zone some still use the huge anchor, others believe huge tanks are not as good as high resists and comfortable buffers. (I fall into the 70% resists and 14k buffer group). FCGÇÖing from a Logi boat is difficult at best, not being able to see the rats as they die makes it hard to judge how well the fleet is doing and make adjustments to improve. Not to mention a logi has enough important jobs to do, donGÇÖt add FCGÇÖing to the list it will only end in tears.

Forming Up
Depending on your fleets abilities you will have to decide whether your Fleets DPS will remove enough of the rats to keep the logistics from being overrun. And if your fleet comp is capable of dealing with unexpected situations (never know when that Logi's ISP will disconnect him to spite you). This is where a good understanding of ships, bonuses and all types of fittings comes in handy.
Knowing what a ships optimal and falloff ranges will be.
The appropriate DPS it should have.
The amount of shield/armour it has for a buffer.
The resists/buffer it should have with currently fitted modules.
The range and efficiency of a large variety of Webs.

Fleet Composition
A fleet full of 1400s will spend all day in a site and never kill the first wave if the rats get into orbit unless you have webs. A full fleet of blasters will kill everything quite efficiently but you will be tanking full room aggro for the entire time rats are getting in range. Missiles work at most ranges but a contesting fleet will make many of the volleys fly into nothing, and inexperienced pilots will waste weapon cycles on targets that are no longer there when the missile arrives.

Your Job
As the FC you will be responsible for deciding if a volunteersGÇÖ ship will be a benefit or liability, and if the pilot will be helpful, disruptive or for that matter a greifer (Yes new news, some people get in fleets just to watch, and sometimes help, Incursion Bears lose ships) Being able to communicate exactly what you need and how you need it done will save time and assets. Voice comms are essential to making this work, and a microphone shy FC will worry a fleet of seasoned pilots, conversely a screaming FC will annoy good pilots and prove their incompetence by blaming other for their failures. If you make a mistake, own it, and donGÇÖt make the same mistake again.

Another FCGÇÖs job has to do with fluidity, having the next step planned and ready to execute will keep pilots happy and involved, things like knowing where the fleet needs to go next, giving the command to align early and often, reminding the fleet to grab their drones, reload their ammo, follow tags, and all the while watching to make sure nobody is dying or asleep at the keyboard. It is a multitasking nightmare some days, and as easy as breathing the next day.

Manage your assets and time; nothing will break a fleet up faster than a 30 minute acceleration gate break after every site. Pick a time for a break and let everyone in fleet know. Ask pilots leaving fleet to let you know as early as possible, donGÇÖt guilt them into staying. Keep the replacement pilots advised of when they will be active. You will find that people leaving fleet will look for you to FC for them more often if you are flexible and considerate.

Well I am sure there is more to add, but this should be a good start.

TDF :) Unabashed TDF promo pic :D

Shields
1. Vindi
2. Nightmare
3. Machariel

In the original post could you fix the typo in The Ditanian Fleet channel name, thanks!