With regard to the article by poetic...and I quote, "...a very small subset of the entire Eve population..."

So, what exactly is all the fuss about?

Ignore them or gank them.

They whine on the forums to change the game. They are the ones who have broken the barge lineup and they are the ones who are whining about bumping. Anything that gets in the way of their game time is seen as bad and must be removed even if that thing is a cornerstone of EVE.

If there are so few of them, and they can make CCP dance to their tune, they seem to me to be really, really good at Eve.

Perhaps the, 'make Eve harder - meaner - tougher', folk should ask them for advice on meta-gaming.

A change that will be delt with when barges are balanced correctly.

It also has unfortunate implications for life in low and null. One of the more striking things I noticed since being back is the complete absence of anyone but other PvPers in low.

I hear industry is quite dead in null too. I was also surprised to learn that most people have high sec alts.

Belt piracy used to be a thing, you know. I'd like it to be again some day. I'd also like to be in a low sec corp with a manufacturing division again, if such a thing still existed. Even some of us rabid PvPers like to build something once in a while.

There are missions in low and null. People could do them while the PvPers in their corp camp the gate or patrol, like we used to do in my mining corp. People would interact and help each other and it would be awesome. Or at least it would be if everyone wasn't making piles of ISK AFK in high.

Selling veldspar on the market isn't interacting with other people. It's interacting with the UI.

exactly. because this veldspar is sold into NPC buy order and wasn't used by other players to build stuff/resell/etc...

They post a lot. We have learned our lesson and now counter them in every post and hit them with real numbers that they cannot counter. They managed to get one change through and nothing else. A change that will be delt with when barges are balanced correctly.

doesn't matter what's done with the veldspar, but making a sell order isn't interacting with other players.
creating a buy/sell order is simply interacting with the ui regardless of who buys it.

market subforum will like to have word with you

I don't know when you started this whine campaign but goons and other whiners make like 99.99% of whine posts in forums since i first visited it....

let's say for every 1 anti-suicide gank post i see 10 posts "nerf this, nerf that, nerf whatever bears have!"

They whine on the forums to change the game. They are the ones who have broken the barge lineup and they are the ones who are whining about bumping. Anything that gets in the way of their game time is seen as bad and must be removed even if that thing is a cornerstone of EVE.

Though I disagree with some of it, I thought this conversation and both linked articles were interesting. As it's been stated in these forums 10,000x that all activities in this game except for ship spinning are pvp, it's difficult to believe anyone can still think solo play exists in the sandbox. Regardless of whether a player is mining solo or mission running solo, once he's undocked, he provides opportunities to other players. That simply isn't solo gaming.

And as to whether market activities constitute social participation:

From the Winter 2012 CSM minutes (again) pgs 9-10:

"Two step cautioned that some of these lurkers never truly engage the community, playing exclusively solo.

Unifex replied: Yes, but does that player that is completely on their own, do they buy anything off of the market? Because that is a form of community participation as well. When we talk about a social game, it's not always about having lots of conversations with people. We have to broaden what we consider social participation in a game like EVE."

Yeah yeah. I know, if it's you making the complain then it isn't a whine. It's only a whine when it's coming from one of those pesky "carebears".

Wrong.

We reply to their threads and turn it on them to get real problems fixed.

Though I disagree with some of it, I thought this conversation and both linked articles were interesting. As it's been stated in these forums 10,000x that all activities in this game except for ship spinning are pvp, it's difficult to believe anyone can still think solo play exists in the sandbox. Regardless of whether a player is mining solo or mission running solo, once he's undocked, he provides opportunities to other players. That simply isn't solo gaming.

And as to whether market activities constitute social participation:

From the Winter 2012 CSM minutes (again) pgs 9-10:

"Two step cautioned that some of these lurkers never truly engage the community, playing exclusively solo.

Unifex replied: Yes, but does that player that is completely on their own, do they buy anything off of the market? Because that is a form of community participation as well. When we talk about a social game, it's not always about having lots of conversations with people. We have to broaden what we consider social participation in a game like EVE."

Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already
subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility. Essentially the GÇ£social value, or social equityGÇ¥ of
a player group increases as you move from left to right (on the whiteboard), even though the size of that
player group becomes much smaller in number. In other words, the 10,000 combined instigators and
enablers become as equally valuable as the much larger lurking population. Unifex admitted that
historically, CCP had not been good at balancing their efforts and servicing all groups.

social participation doesn't mean player interaction.

i agree that using the market is social participation, however in doing so you haven't interacted with a player. they don't have to be online (hell, they don't even have to be aware of it) in order for you to purchase their goods, or for you to sell goods to them.

Are you saying that playing the markets is not a form of PVP (Player vs Player)?

Are you saying that playing the markets is not a form of PVP (Player vs Player)?

Just out of interest, who are these anti-sandbox carebears who are calling for their own special protective area? I honestly don't think I've ever read any blog or forum post or met a player in-game who has been asking for this. I don't read *that* many blogs but I honestly don't recall anyone asking for this feature, otherwise I probably would have replied rather curtly and suggested they consider another game.

I like how the commenter "the real one" said:



Its almost as if these people need to make a up an opponent to bash.

social participation doesn't mean player interaction.

i agree that using the market is social participation, however in doing so you haven't interacted with a player. they don't have to be online (hell, they don't even have to be aware of it) in order for you to purchase their goods, or for you to sell goods to them.

nope, Dave still thinks NPC's are making up the marketprices.