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baltec1
Bat Country
5469
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: Been playing since '05 and have seen just as many or even more whines from the hardcore 'elite' PVPers. So your claim is simply false. In fact, I've seen you yourself whine quite more often than any other one "carebear" in the forums.
Yeah yeah. I know, if it's you making the complain then it isn't a whine. It's only a whine when it's coming from one of those pesky "carebears".
The difference between a whine and a complaint is one of facts. I have them and the whiners only have insults.
It's one of the two big misused words around here, the other being cying. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5469
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
And then Unifex stated one of those things the baltec1 of the game still can't understand:
I see you think that all solo players are bears. I don't make that mistake. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
507
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: Been playing since '05 and have seen just as many or even more whines from the hardcore 'elite' PVPers. So your claim is simply false. In fact, I've seen you yourself whine quite more often than any other one "carebear" in the forums.
Yeah yeah. I know, if it's you making the complain then it isn't a whine. It's only a whine when it's coming from one of those pesky "carebears".
The difference between a whine and a complaint is one of facts. I have them and the whiners only have insults. It's one of the two big misused words around here, the other being cying. On the subject of insults, I've seen these thrown out more from the elite PVP camp than from carebears themselves, from you included. Carebears and miners are by far the largest targets for 'elitist' PVPers to sling insults and degrading comments against. Since I started playing it's non-stop. So again, I have to call you out on your post above.
From my observation, reason and logic has never explained the level of hate, disdain, and contempt that you and some of the other very vocal anti-carebear players bring to this forum. But to be fair, this behavior isn't unique to Eve alone. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
574
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:33:00 -
[64] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:And then Unifex stated one of those things the baltec1 of the game still can't understand: Quote:Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility. Essentially the GÇ£social value, or social equityGÇ¥ of a player group increases as you move from left to right (on the whiteboard), even though the size of that player group becomes much smaller in number. In other words, the 10,000 combined instigators and enablers become as equally valuable as the much larger lurking population. Unifex admitted that historically, CCP had not been good at balancing their efforts and servicing all groups. That little bit of conversation was one of the most interesting things i've read in a while. I bolded the important parts. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7949
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:And then Unifex stated one of those things the baltec1 of the game still can't understand: Quote:Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility. Essentially the GÇ£social value, or social equityGÇ¥ of a player group increases as you move from left to right (on the whiteboard), even though the size of that player group becomes much smaller in number. In other words, the 10,000 combined instigators and enablers become as equally valuable as the much larger lurking population. Unifex admitted that historically, CCP had not been good at balancing their efforts and servicing all groups. That little bit of conversation was one of the most interesting things i've read in a while. I bolded the important parts.
which is the essential point of the xn.ym article I wrote.
Glad to see Unifex is onboard Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
baltec1
Bat Country
5470
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:44:00 -
[66] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: On the subject of insults, I've seen these thrown out more from the elite PVP camp than from carebears themselves, you included. Carebears and miners are by far the largest targets for 'elitist' PVPers to sling insults and degrading comments against. Since I started playing it's non-stop. So again, I have to call you out on your post above.
From my observation, reason and logic has never explained the level of hate, disdain, and contempt that you and some of the other very vocal anti-carebear players bring to this forum. But to be fair, this behavior isn't unique to Eve alone. However, for whatever reasons, you do tend to be more aggressive and vocal than what I've observed elsewhere.
I spent 8 months giving out anti gank barge fittings and got nothing but insults back. Sorry but bears are by far the most likely to start throwing around the insults. But please, by all means go find where I have gone out and insulted people right off the bat.
While you're at it, look up the amount of insults that get thrown at me because of my corp and alliance. |
Dave Stark
1884
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:48:00 -
[67] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:insults that get thrown at me because of my corp and alliance.
it's the go to comment when people run out of valid points, doesn't matter what your corp or alliance is.
not in goons but somewhere else? they say they've never heard of you, you're a nobody, hence your voice is irrelevant. not in a player corp? assumed to be some npc alt hiding, hence your voice is irrelevant. no matter what corp you are in, because it's not theirs, your voice is irrelevant. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
baltec1
Bat Country
5470
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:insults that get thrown at me because of my corp and alliance. it's the go to comment when people run out of valid points, doesn't matter what your corp or alliance is. not in goons but somewhere else? they say they've never heard of you, you're a nobody, hence your voice is irrelevant. not in a player corp? assumed to be some npc alt hiding, hence your voice is irrelevant. no matter what corp you are in, because it's not theirs, your voice is irrelevant.
True.
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Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
and they're still crying about the barges I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Dave Stark
1884
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:and they're still crying about the barges
is that on account that the barge rebalance was terrible and didn't balance the barges in the slightest? "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
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baltec1
Bat Country
5470
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 19:57:00 -
[71] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:and they're still crying about the barges
See?
That word is losing its meaning because of people like this abusing it. |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:is that on account that the barge rebalance was terrible and didn't balance the barges in the slightest?
it wasn't terrible, you might argue they've been overbuffed with regard to tank in some cases but the retriever badly needed a buff as it was an enormous industrial ship made of papermache.
and all the rest of them were worthless once you could fly a hulk. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Dave Stark
1884
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Dave Stark wrote:is that on account that the barge rebalance was terrible and didn't balance the barges in the slightest? it wasn't terrible, you might argue they've been overbuffed with regard to tank in some cases but the retriever badly needed a buff as it was an enormous industrial ship made of papermache. and all the rest of them were worthless once you could fly a hulk.
yes it was, they are in no way balanced.
there are three ships, with three roles. each ship should have the highest of one stat, the lowest of another, and middle of the road for the final stat. that simply isn't the case except with any ship but the skiff (which, ironically as the most "balanced" in that regard is the least used).
as for the rest of them being worthless once you could fly a hulk... you mean like the rest of them being worthless now you can fly a retriever (hell, you don't even need a mackinaw to make the rest of them worthless)? "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:25:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:yes it was, they are in no way balanced.
there are three ships, with three roles. each ship should have the highest of one stat, the lowest of another, and middle of the road for the final stat. that simply isn't the case with any ship but the skiff/procurer (which, ironically as the most "balanced" in that regard is the least used).
as for the rest of them being worthless once you could fly a hulk... you mean like the rest of them being worthless now you can fly a retriever (hell, you don't even need a mackinaw to make the rest of them worthless)?
if you fly retrievers you should know just how much their cap sucks and why you want a mack. hulks are still used for fleet mining. I don't really use the others as I mine solo like a lot of people which is why you're seeing retrievers everywhere. it used to be hulks everywhere because that was the solo ship of choice before.
they all have their roles though, even if a BS size tank isn't that useful on a barge as mining lowsec solo mostly isn't worth the effort. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Dave Stark
1884
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:if you fly retrievers you should know just how much their cap sucks and why you want a mack. hulks are still used for fleet mining. I don't really use the others as I mine solo like a lot of people which is why you're seeing retrievers everywhere. it used to be hulks everywhere because that was the solo ship of choice before.
they all have their roles though, even if a BS size tank isn't that useful on a barge as mining lowsec solo mostly isn't worth the effort.
cap is fine, they're perfectly cap stable without training any cap skills. i'm well aware of what a hulk is for.
sure they all have roles, that doesn't make them balanced. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:cap is fine, they're perfectly cap stable without training any cap skills. i'm well aware of what a hulk is for.
sure they all have roles, that doesn't make them balanced.
i can't even warp gate to gate across some systems in one go with it, and therefore is too annoying for me to use. i guess it's fine if you want a cheap ship and you aren't moving much. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1230
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:38:00 -
[77] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:EI Digin wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:And then Unifex stated one of those things the baltec1 of the game still can't understand: Quote:Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility. Essentially the GÇ£social value, or social equityGÇ¥ of a player group increases as you move from left to right (on the whiteboard), even though the size of that player group becomes much smaller in number. In other words, the 10,000 combined instigators and enablers become as equally valuable as the much larger lurking population. Unifex admitted that historically, CCP had not been good at balancing their efforts and servicing all groups. That little bit of conversation was one of the most interesting things i've read in a while. I bolded the important parts. which is the essential point of the xn.ym article I wrote. Glad to see Unifex is onboard
We both agree that CCP Unifex is talking about a relevant change in CCP's attitude towards players.
You think that cool "high xn.ym" guys should get more CCP love.
I think that the disregard for the uncool lurkers is costing EVE its future.
So the question is... if CCP is not pleasing the "cool guys" and is not pleasing the "uncool" guys, who are they pleasing?
BTW, reading the whole thing a third time, I noticed CCP Seagull said that the metrics guys are to be implementing HUMAN measurement systems right now. I would love to be a fly on the wall when they produce the first data on that... EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Dave Stark
1884
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Dave Stark wrote:cap is fine, they're perfectly cap stable without training any cap skills. i'm well aware of what a hulk is for.
sure they all have roles, that doesn't make them balanced. i can't even warp gate to gate across some systems in one go with it, and therefore is too annoying for me to use. i guess it's fine if you want a cheap ship and you aren't moving much.
warping to a gate has nothing to do with mining barge balance... "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:warping to a gate has nothing to do with mining barge balance...
you said there was no reason for anyone to progress further than the retriever. i just gave you a reason.
the balancing part was merely buffing it so it couldn't besolo ganked by destroyers. this upset a lot of people as they were having a lot of fun with that. I know myself, sometimes i get sick of a game but then I find some cool undocumented feature that supports grief play, especially grief play toward cheats or people playing very defensively. like the booster hunting thing in MW2 was amazing, I had so much fun with that so i get the upset but it's possible they just need to unsub for a while if the game is boring them, rather than complaining.
should send a message, you know?
and there's a lot of frikkin' complaining on here. just seems like the same old slogans being parroted about. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Dave Stark
1884
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:53:00 -
[80] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Dave Stark wrote:warping to a gate has nothing to do with mining barge balance... you said there was no reason for anyone to progress further than the retriever. i just gave you a reason. the balancing part was merely buffing it so it couldn't be one-shotted by destroyers. this upset a lot of people as they were having a lot of fun with that. I know myself, sometimes i get sick of a game but then I find some cool undocumented feature that supports grief play, especially grief play toward cheats or people playing very defensively. like the booster hunting thing in MW2 was amazing, I had so much fun with that so i get the upset but it's possible they just need to unsub for a while if the game is boring them, rather than complaining. should send a message, you know? and there's a lot of frikkin' complaining on here. just seems like the same old slogans being parroted about.
warping to a gate isn't a reason. if i'm in a mining ship, i'm mining. so being able to warp to a gate is completely irrelevant. it also seems irrelevant to about 1/3 of high sec who appear to be using a retriever too. looking at the figures between just the mack and ret, there appears to be more ret users, than mack users in high sec for example.
as for the rest of that, it again, has nothing to do with the balance of mining ships. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
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Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:53:00 -
[81] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: exactly. because PVPers made anyone other left these places.
No, some people left because it's easier to spend 2 hours AFK in high than 1 hour paying attention in low for the same ISK. Then the rest of them left because everyone else was gone. If you put in any significant effort, PvPers aren't much of an issue. I know this from first hand experience running my own low sec mining corp back when such a thing still existed.
March rabbit wrote:exactly. because PVPers made running missions/mining/belt running in low/0.0 too danger so anyone smart evades these cursed places. Again, it had nothing to do with PvPers and everything to do with lazy, anti-social people.
Jensaro Koraka wrote: what prevents you from doing this? Organize industry in your corp. Organize mining ops and all this stuff.
Probably the fact that I no longer have my own corp and the fact that it's no longer my main focus in the game.
Jensaro Koraka wrote:missions in low/0.0 already give more LP and ISK than in empire. Everyone who accepts risk already run these missions. Others prefer lower rewards but higher security. What is wrong here? Trammels kill sandboxes dead. If you had read the article I linked explaining the effect on other security ratings you wouldn't need to ask.
Jensaro Koraka wrote:exactly. because this veldspar is sold into NPC buy order and wasn't used by other players to build stuff/resell/etc... How much acid did you have to drop before you thought you were interacting with someone you've never seen, spoken to or even been in the same system with? "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Agnar Volta
Shrubbery Acquisitions
81
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:03:00 -
[82] - Quote
I'm impress, you guys manage to finally bring racism to eve.
A whole classe of players to be hated, serve as scapegoat for your failings and to blame for the features that you don't have. Amazing.
Good thing that we already have our own *** equivalent bring the true about this evil group so we can pin point them and deal with these treat. |
Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
56
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:06:00 -
[83] - Quote
They get minerals and crap that go into the economy.... or simply isk to buy things, lp for faction items to sell...
why do they NEED to die and/or talk to you to accomplish this? <.<
Eve is about the sandbox of space, i never knew it to be "hand holding space-ships online"....
Welcome to a player controlled market, the gms dont need to hold your hands giving free ships/npc minerals/killmails just because you hate that others do it for you so much you want the game changed entirely to do so.
QQ my friends...
Qq |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:07:00 -
[84] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: On the subject of insults, I've seen these thrown out more from the elite PVP camp than from carebears themselves, you included. Carebears and miners are by far the largest targets for 'elitist' PVPers to sling insults and degrading comments against. Since I started playing it's non-stop. So again, I have to call you out on your post above.
Things carebears have threatened me with:
Raping various members of my family. Killing various members of my family. Doing the above to me. Doing the above to my pets. Hacking various accounts, including, but not limited to, my bank, Eve, and e-mail accounts. Getting their GM and/or dev friends to ban me for doing something they don't like. Suicide. Kicking my ass. Paralyzing me. Putting me in a coma. Calling me various racial slurs and threatening to have me deported. And many more. All of these are threats that would put them in jail if I thought they were actually capable of carrying them out and reported them. When I fight anyone in low or null they usually say "GF" or nothing at all. When I kill a carebear It's not uncommon for me to be subjected to a 30+ minute profanity stream. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Iminent Penance
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
56
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:10:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: On the subject of insults, I've seen these thrown out more from the elite PVP camp than from carebears themselves, you included. Carebears and miners are by far the largest targets for 'elitist' PVPers to sling insults and degrading comments against. Since I started playing it's non-stop. So again, I have to call you out on your post above.
Things carebears have threatened me with: Raping various members of my family. Killing various members of my family. Doing the above to me. Doing the above to my pets. Hacking various accounts, including, but not limited to, my bank, Eve, and e-mail accounts. Getting their GM and/or dev friends to ban me for doing something they don't like. Suicide. Kicking my ass. Paralyzing me. Calling me various racial slurs and threatening to have me deported. And many more. All of these are threats that would put them in jail if I thought they were actually capable of carrying them out and reported them. When I fight anyone in low or null they usually say "GF" or nothing at all. When I kill a carebear It's not uncommon for me to be subjected to a 30+ minute profanity stream.
Things pvpers have publically threatened with:
Raping various members of my family. Killing various members of my family. Doing the above to me. Doing the above to my pets. Hacking various accounts, including, but not limited to, my bank, Eve, and e-mail accounts. Getting their GM and/or dev friends to ban me for doing something they don't like. Suicide. Kicking my ass. Paralyzing me. Calling me various racial slurs and threatening to have me deported. And many more.
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Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:12:00 -
[86] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:[warping to a gate isn't a reason. if i'm in a mining ship, i'm mining. so being able to warp to a gate is completely irrelevant. it also seems irrelevant to about 1/3 of high sec who appear to be using a retriever too. looking at the figures between just the mack and ret, there appears to be more ret users, than mack users in high sec for example.
as for the rest of that, it again, has nothing to do with the balance of mining ships.
it's not irrelevant to mining. I always mine systems with no station and have to make at least one jump to my refine station. you have to get out there these days. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:12:00 -
[87] - Quote
Iminent Penance wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: On the subject of insults, I've seen these thrown out more from the elite PVP camp than from carebears themselves, you included. Carebears and miners are by far the largest targets for 'elitist' PVPers to sling insults and degrading comments against. Since I started playing it's non-stop. So again, I have to call you out on your post above.
Things carebears have threatened me with: Raping various members of my family. Killing various members of my family. Doing the above to me. Doing the above to my pets. Hacking various accounts, including, but not limited to, my bank, Eve, and e-mail accounts. Getting their GM and/or dev friends to ban me for doing something they don't like. Suicide. Kicking my ass. Paralyzing me. Calling me various racial slurs and threatening to have me deported. And many more. All of these are threats that would put them in jail if I thought they were actually capable of carrying them out and reported them. When I fight anyone in low or null they usually say "GF" or nothing at all. When I kill a carebear It's not uncommon for me to be subjected to a 30+ minute profanity stream. Things pvpers have publically threatened with: Raping various members of my family. Killing various members of my family. Doing the above to me. Doing the above to my pets. Hacking various accounts, including, but not limited to, my bank, Eve, and e-mail accounts. Getting their GM and/or dev friends to ban me for doing something they don't like. Suicide. Kicking my ass. Paralyzing me. Calling me various racial slurs and threatening to have me deported. And many more. Unless the ones you run into in high sec are pretty much the exact opposite of the ones i'm used to dealing with, that kind of people are incredibly uncommon. We're used to losing multiple ships an hour sometimes. No ****s tend to be given. Carebears on the other hand act like it's the end of the world and completely flip out on you. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
baltec1
Bat Country
5472
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Dave Stark wrote:warping to a gate isn't a reason. if i'm in a mining ship, i'm mining. so being able to warp to a gate is completely irrelevant. it also seems irrelevant to about 1/3 of high sec who appear to be using a retriever too. looking at the figures between just the mack and ret, there appears to be more ret users, than mack users in high sec for example.
as for the rest of that, it again, has nothing to do with the balance of mining ships. it's not irrelevant to mining. I always mine systems with no station and have to make at least one jump to my refine station. you have to get out there these days.
The belts in systems next door to Amarr are untouched. Theres no need to solo mine in a stationless system. |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The belts in systems next door to Amarr are untouched. Theres no need to solo mine in a stationless system.
haha, good one. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Dave Stark
1885
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:27:00 -
[90] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:baltec1 wrote:The belts in systems next door to Amarr are untouched. Theres no need to solo mine in a stationless system. haha, good one.
there are plenty of high sec systems with a station, and plenty of belts that you simply don't need to mine in a system without a station. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
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