Game mechanics are why it is the way it is.
We can't bypass the game mechanics as much as you'd like to think so.
Please take time to actually learn the issues before you comment.

Edited because it was WAAAAAAAAAY too harsh. Sorry about that.

What game mechanic forces the entire population of nullsec to cannibalize each other and everything else that comes into it?

Like a big amorphous fungal growth it consumes everything that is not protected by Concord and some things that are too.

What game mechanic forces the entire population of nullsec to cannibalize each other and everything else that comes into it?

Like a big amorphous fungal growth it consumes everything that is not protected by Concord and some things that are too.

So are we shooting each other, or are we not shooting each other?
Highseccers get pissed when we shoot at each other, and they get pissed when we don't shoot at each other.
Clearly we're the problem.

No, what disgusts me are your bold faced lies and willful intellectual dishonesty.
You're a ******* troll and you know it.

No the problem is that the nullsec population and their leadership look at Jita and demand the same from CCP. They want a nullsec Jita.

For the industry to move to nullsec. As if it was taken from them. And they believe that the solution is to make high sec less safe. That the market and industry will spread out more then.


But nullsec is coarse. To such a extreme degree that efficient industry is impossible. Not because CCP keeps the industry from them but because they scare away the industry.

But nullsec is coarse. To such a extreme degree that efficient industry is impossible. Not because CCP keeps the industry from them but because they scare away the industry.

The biggest issue in null sec without question is the people in null sec. They made their bed. They can lie on it now.

He said cheaper and easier, not either cheaper or easier.

The rest of your rant is based on your preconceptions of the game, and arguing them is pointless because none of us can actually bring up relevant and impartial statistics in the manner. As it stands there's just a lot of us in this thread who would like to do industry in nullsec but highsec is just so much better. Count me in that "insignificant minority".

PS: training my third industry alt. Like the other two, he will build in highsec in the current game environment.

Yeah that is a great philosophy.

What about all the people that would like to move to Null, Had nothing to do with the current set up of Sov Null and currently will not go there as it is completely unprofitable?

Now restate it honestly as "we would like to do industry in null sec but it's more convenient in hi sec".

This sounds better and indeed hi sec is more convenient and indeed null sec should be buffed a lot, but don't make it show like you are poor helpless victims of a system you chose to embark into.

Apparently, like it or not, back at the dawn of the game, CCP decided that going in null sec meant to live an harsh life, that EvE would be based on a center-periphery model and that certain things would suck when done in null sec.

Look at moon mining as you correctly say a lot of wealth in few hands rather than the wealth being there for all to have.

Meh.

Nothing will change in sov space until those in power have a change in philosophy and attitude towards the rest of Eve. It was in their power to turn their sections of SOV space into trade and industrial friendly areas and instead everyone of them to a T rubbed their hands together in greed and power and locked out everyone else while they watched their wallets fill with isk from the moon goo spigots.

They were so obsessed with their greed and status quo they blued up almost 70% of SOV space. Now everyone else is supposed to bow down and bend over as they want to take from High Sec and force High Sec folks to want to play in an environment like that?

Im sure all we will hear is more blame on mechanics and no admittance of blame on themselves, which is to be expected (consider the source) but folks are wise to them and the real cause of their problems as this point so that everytime they cry on the forums folks just roll their eyes.

No thanks. Honestly, the last people anyone should be listening to about making EVE "better" are the clowns that turned null sov into what it is today.

EvE is a sandbox (sadly with an hi sec, should get rid of that) with a very high degree of freedom given to the players.


Assuming what you say is right:
If those players are stupid enough to work like dummies for the "wealth in few hands", what's wrong with it?
I mean, there's no hardcoded rule or law forcing people to obey and enslave for others to get rich.
Just rebel, and kick those "few hands" and then spread the wealth between everybody.


But knowing what you say is not that right:
Alliance members let the "few hands" decide who gets what and to spend that wealth in ships replacements and whatsnot.
Do the ship replacements, free skill books etc. count as "being there for all to have"? You can bet they do.

Do those few hands also administer the whole alliance, spend time and ability in diplomacy, organize with the corp officers and FCs? Yes they do.

Do they organize alliance logistics, buy sov structures, setup bridges? Yes they do.

So.... tell it again... are those few hands hoarding the wealth or are you forgetting about the LOT of stuff everyone in the alliance benefits from and thus the wealth is shared?

But as to how CCP structured EvE 10 years ago is a lot different to what it is now. By the look of it all of the regions were meant to be reliant on the others but due to additions made over the years this is no longer true. Null is reliant on Hi-sec but Hi-sec is only reliant on Null for Moon Goo and a few BPOs and officer mods.

And the Moon Goo does not help the average player as to the profitability of Null Sec or for that matter the majority of Alliances.

So you are claiming that if I flew into Null today I could ask Goonswarm for a copy of Capital ships? I know where they would tell me to stick that.

You say alliance member this and alliance member that.

What about the people who live in Null or might want to live in Null but are not members of these alliances?

You're so butt hurt. The more angry and vitriolic a person gets, the closer to the truth you are hitting with your opinions and comments.

Ill take your anger and disrespectful comments as a sign that Im right on target pointing out the hypocrisy in your statements and opinions on this issue.

If they tell you that, it means you did nothing worth enough to deserve 1 skill book. I am quite sure their officers are ready to shell the billions to assist those they consider deserving that.

You do like we did: harden up, perform weekly corp / alliance ops to farm ISK / minerals and then go conquer moons to stop performing the boring weekly corp / alliance ops.

We had full fitted capital ships replacement program, even before owning our first moon.

Meh, is it just me or the current players are way softened compared to the past?

Is it my imagination or where people who used to play EvE more intelligent?

It's not hard to be more intelligent than Vaerah or Sariah.

It looks like own SOV space in your head at this point.

You stay classy and keep sticking to the points being debated mkay......

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-- Albert Einstein

It looks like I own SOV space in your head at this point.

You stay classy and keep sticking to the points being debated mkay......

GǪapart from the whole Gǣbeing rewardedGǥ part, since null industry is all punishment.

GǪif you have this odd belief that players should be able to build something in player-controlled space that's better than what NPC can provide in NPC space (you know, to give the whole player-run thing some kind of reason for existing?).

Oh, and it also exists in pure numbers and embedded in the mechanics.

to any scale that their infrastructure will support.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem.
An entire region of fully upgraded nullsec infrastructure would still be inferior to just a handful of systems in highsec.
So the scale of production is really quite limited, especially compared to the general size of alliances that hold that amount of space.

So of course we don't want to pay the bill for it. It's not worth paying it.

They only need invest in, build and protect the facilities. It is "their" space. They went out there to own it. They just don't want to pay the bill for it.

It is a non-existent problem.

Let me ask you honestly:
If killing sleeper rats netted you about 10 mil/hour on average in a C5 or C6 with an optimal fleet comp and tactics, but still required the same fleet compositions, effort, risk, infrastructure, etc. to kill them, would you begrudge wormhole dwellers for going to highsec to run lvl 4 missions or incursions to get a reasonable income? Would you consider their requests to buff w-space PVE reasonable? Or would you tell them to HTFU and get a bigger and more expensive fleet composition?