But it so much more fun when its secret. Then all the little goonies come out and play..

What's flawed is the belief that sov null sec deserves best reward when NPC null sec and low sec are where the highest risk is.

Low sec and NPC null sec should be the place for the highest rewards, not sov null sec.

Yes, fallacies such as the one Le Badass just offered are confusing. It's not an actual argument for null having better industry, though, so seeing as how this non-argument is the most confusing one, it can only mean one thing:

The actual arguments for that pretty much all make sense, if you happen to know of them.

It's only confusing because you've gotten it into your head that that's what nullsec represents, which doesn't actually match up to the reality of nullsec.

Good god, how many more frickin NERF HIGH SEC threads do we need. The fat isk rich blobs in null already have the best of everything while their mining/ ratting remains on par risk wise to high sec and ganking.

Face up to the fact you have everything. The real point behind all of these kind of threads is the same. The poor null bears are bored ratting, mining slurping moon goo and want force all high seccers un-willingly into "there territory" so they have something else to do.... "Shoot things" because they are so fck-in lame that they wont go shooting rivals all because they want to protect the fat isk machine.

Null Sec today is far safer than low-sec and that's not what was intended. So all the risk adverse alliances larding it up in null, carry on making it safer and more boring but you can't expect Hi Sec population to be punished for that.

There are even comments saying how Null and Hi should be balanced accordingly. I agree, High Seccers want tech moons (yielding less tech over time than null moons do) and the ability to use and build up to, not exceeding carriers, possibly supers . Eventually both populations get what they want. More risk avoiding production of caps and in time Hi Sec Entities will be more tempted to launch attacks on null for space on epic proportions.

How about that ?

No ?

Well HSFU with Hi Sec nerfage / Null buffing

A single system in caldari high sec has more industry slots than entire regions of 0.0

That doesn't sound broken to you?

Lookidat map - active users in the last 30 mins : http://oi46.tinypic.com/2r5dtvb.jpg

In a word....... NO

A single system in caldari high sec has more industry slots than entire regions of 0.0

That doesn't sound broken to you?

Doesn't null require infrastructure be built by players? I'll grant you that the current capacities available are lacking, but in the end we will still likely have that issue even if the capacity issue is corrected because not all entities will likely be interested in investing in it.

Doubt many would pass up the chance of building where they live, instead of the current method. Having to do logistics in deep null can be a pain.

Sov null inherently has the highest risk and investment cost out of all areas. The only reason it is considered "safer" is due to player interaction(intel channels, scouts, etc). For example I can leave my stuff in npc null station and go away for 1 week and not have to worry. If I leave it in a Sov null station, there is a chance I could lose access to it within the same week. Lets not mention the billions required to maintain SOV in said systems which can be attacked.

Sov null inherently can be made safe(r). Effort or not the result is that it becomes safe(r).

NPC null cannot do that, so it's riskier. I have been in both, the risk can't even be vaguely compared.

[quote=Vaerah Vahrokha]
NPC null can use the exact same tools as sov null to make it just as secure but with the added bonus of never losing access to the stations.

A factor or question that has come up a number of times, but then lost in the depths of economic arguments, is whether nullsec should be on par or better than hisec for industry, which, thinking about it, is a question that needs to be answered first, before discussing any balancing that might need to be done

It has to be better than empire. In order for someone to be convinced to move their industry operations from The Forge to someplace 40-80 jumps away which will be difficult to get to, transport materials to and from and need to be defended.

Doesn't null require infrastructure be built by players? I'll grant you that the current capacities available are lacking, but in the end we will still likely have that issue even if the capacity issue is corrected because not all entities will likely be interested in investing in it.

Except the "exact same tools" such as limiting station access, cyno jammers, jump bridges to let you get ahead of invaders, clone services, repair services, access to market, etc.

NPC null can use the exact same tools as sov null to make it just as secure but with the added bonus of never losing access to the stations.

None of those things matter, all you need is intel.

Not to mention that any given Caldari highsec system on any given day probably has more people in space than whatever nullsec region you want to look at.

When I'd fly from Jel to 6qbh in stain (roughly 60 jumps) I'd find more danger from the last 3 jumps of NPC null as well as the small 2 lowsec system hop (Gondista) than I would through the 18-30 jumps through SOV space (Test and Tribal).

Just me, flying through, no scout, no protection.

Sov is not more dangerous. Even for a trespasser. Not to mention those who are saying THEIR sov space is riskier....

Please.

Doesn't null require infrastructure be built by players? I'll grant you that the current capacities available are lacking, but in the end we will still likely have that issue even if the capacity issue is corrected because not all entities will likely be interested in investing in it.

Yes, nullsec industry should be > hi sec industry.

At the same time nullsec industry needs to be much less safe than it currently is. Additionally there should be resources which are only available in lowsec and hisec respectively.

Sure, I recall how secure it was to go to, dock and then undock off the central hub in the 2 NPC null sec regions I have been. It "just" involved having to always bring 20 carriers and supporting fleet and removing the double bubbles people every time.

I also recall how secure it was to fly L4 missions 2 jumps away, there were just 40 neutrals or reds off several warring alliances in local at any given hour of the day.

When I was in sov null sec (once as owner, once as renter) intel chat and a scout were the maximum needed to roam for 5-6 systems, the danger would eventually come from WHs not from the nearby null sec systems.


Keep trying convincing easily impressed randoms who read this forum, it does not work with me.

I have used my magical time machine to make both of those things happen. Job done.

Now let's get on with the rebalance.