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Sticky:[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
nubile slave HIFI INDUSTRIAL Claimed. 26	Posted - 2013.04.07 21:50:00 - [511] - Quote I'm unclear as to how you can make this statement, after ruining the ship.... "Stabber Fleet Issue: Role stays the same, as this ship works very well. Overall the mass increase means a decrease in power but it will remain a very strong ship." Adding mass to a fast tackle, kiting ship is not really keeping it's role...is it?
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 713	Posted - 2013.04.08 09:32:00 - [512] - Quote nubile slave wrote: I'm unclear as to how you can make this statement, after ruining the ship.... "Stabber Fleet Issue: Role stays the same, as this ship works very well. Overall the mass increase means a decrease in power but it will remain a very strong ship." Adding mass to a fast tackle, kiting ship is not really keeping it's role...is it? SFI isn't a kiting ship Stop being bad. BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 5136	Posted - 2013.04.08 10:04:00 - [513] - Quote Takanuro wrote: Quote: Omen Navy Issue: Turning this ship into a much more mobile ship with an optimal bonus, much like a giant Slicer. Cruiser skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range Slot layout: 5(-1) H, 3 M, 7 L, 4(-1) turrets Fittings: 965 PWG, 335 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1800(-416) / 2250(-463) / 2250(-428) Shield Recharge Time: 1250s(-500s) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1650(+25) / 520s(+55.9s) / 3.17(-0.3) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 265(+73) / 0.43(-0.11) / 10850000(-800,000) / 6.47s(-2.25) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+25) / 50(+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km(+12.5) / 320(+27) / 7(-1) Sensor strength: 17(+1) Radar Signature radius: 100(-12) Cargo capacity: 400(+150) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1800(-416) / 2250(-463) / 2250(-428) Navy Omen Attributes currently state that Armor is 3,013, if you are going to drop it 463 then it should be 2,550? Taka. You're absolutely right. It's actually 2,550 the 2 is a typo. Correcting now in the OP. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 5142	Posted - 2013.04.08 13:59:00 - [514] - Quote Hey everyone, thanks for all the feedback so far. We're working hard to get these onto the test server for you all to try out. It's not quite ready to go yet but we'll be providing more updates as we get closer. The big concerns I'm seeing so far surround the Scythe, Omen and Stabber, so I want to discuss them briefly. With the Scythe, we've been seeing concern from people who think it's too weak and people who think its too strong. I believe that the Scythe Fleet Issue an extremely powerful ship in its proposed form, although I understand that the unusual bonuses can make it hard to read. The ability to field 8 effective turrets or 6 effective launchers with fully selectable capless damage (and with a utility high to boot) on a ship that fast and small has some extreme potential. The tight fittings helps keep it in line but I am concerned that it may be too strong. We'll be re-evaluating once we get it out for public testing. With the Omen, I can completely understand where a lot of the expressed unhappyness is coming from. So far when we've given ships entirely new roles we have usually used ships that previously have no good uses. The Omen Navy Issue is viable right now, and this role is a large departure for it, but choosing it wasn't an accident. I believe that the extra speed and agility combined with the range bonus will create a strong and fun ship to fly, even with weaker damage per second than its T1 counterpart. People looking for an excellent brawling cruiser from the Amarr linup may be interested in the new Navy Augoror. As well, part of the concern may have been exacerbated by my typo that had originally showed the Navy Omen with too little armor hitpoints. All this being said, this is another ship we're going to be watching very closely and rest assured that if it is underperforming during public testing we will take all necessary measures. As for the Stabber Fleet Issue, it is important to remember that it is not intended to simply be a higher Hp version of the normal Stabber. Its role has been long established as a flexible and fast brawler, using the stellar tracking, good hp and sig. It can be fit for speed and kiting, although those uses rely more heavily on surprise than on the actual ship bonuses. When it comes to hitpoints and mobility it actually has a lot more in common with the Rupture than the Stabber, which we know can be confusing but is something that we don't consider a big enough problem to warrant changing its hull. Also I'll go ahead and let you guys know that we'll be normalizing the LP costs of these ships at the old "Tier 3" Navy Cruiser values (Which is something I think most of you have already guessed). Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie

Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 799	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:06:00 - [515] - Quote Since the Navy Vexor is now a dedicated drone ship are there any plans to look at the unreasonably high CPU needs of drone modules and rigs, or giving the ship some more CPU? Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 5143	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:10:00 - [516] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Since the Navy Vexor is now a dedicated drone ship are there any plans to look at the unreasonably high CPU needs of drone modules and rigs, or giving the ship some more CPU? Adjusting the DLAs a bit may be possible, but I'd have to take a closer look at the potential consequences. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 153	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:12:00 - [517] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: With the Scythe, we've been seeing concern from people who think it's too weak and people who think its too strong. I believe that the Scythe Fleet Issue an extremely powerful ship in its proposed form, although I understand that the unusual bonuses can make it hard to read. The ability to field 8 effective turrets or 6 effective launchers with fully selectable capless damage (and with a utility high to boot) on a ship that fast and small has some extreme potential. The tight fittings helps keep it in line but I am concerned that it may be too strong. We'll be re-evaluating once we get it out for public testing. Why doesn't it have equal bonuses to missiles and projectiles? Makes no sense. Do you think missiles are better than autocannons or something?

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 5143	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:14:00 - [518] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: With the Scythe, we've been seeing concern from people who think it's too weak and people who think its too strong. I believe that the Scythe Fleet Issue an extremely powerful ship in its proposed form, although I understand that the unusual bonuses can make it hard to read. The ability to field 8 effective turrets or 6 effective launchers with fully selectable capless damage (and with a utility high to boot) on a ship that fast and small has some extreme potential. The tight fittings helps keep it in line but I am concerned that it may be too strong. We'll be re-evaluating once we get it out for public testing. Why doesn't it have equal bonuses to missiles and projectiles? Makes no sense. Do you think missiles are better than autocannons or something? In this case, as a match with the ship's speed and flight style, yes. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 153	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:14:00 - [519] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Since the Navy Vexor is now a dedicated drone ship are there any plans to look at the unreasonably high CPU needs of drone modules and rigs, or giving the ship some more CPU? Adjusting the DLAs a bit may be possible, but I'd have to take a closer look at the potential consequences. How about better drone navigation mods, with tracking bonuses to compensate for the faster orbit?

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 5143	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:15:00 - [520] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Since the Navy Vexor is now a dedicated drone ship are there any plans to look at the unreasonably high CPU needs of drone modules and rigs, or giving the ship some more CPU? Adjusting the DLAs a bit may be possible, but I'd have to take a closer look at the potential consequences. How about better drone navigation mods, with tracking bonuses to compensate for the faster orbit? Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie


Jonas Sukarala Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 62	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:16:00 - [521] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Since the Navy Vexor is now a dedicated drone ship are there any plans to look at the unreasonably high CPU needs of drone modules and rigs, or giving the ship some more CPU? Adjusting the DLAs a bit may be possible, but I'd have to take a closer look at the potential consequences. maybe improve their range aswell as it makes it hard to use sentries 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor.
Nicen Jehr Swarm Federation 176	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:21:00 - [522] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them. Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once (...if of course it doesn't already) Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á\| My Little Things posts

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 5143	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:22:00 - [523] - Quote Nicen Jehr wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them. Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once Nah that's not the problem. The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones. Unfortunately that's a pretty big issue to fix, as it would essentially involve speeding up the tick rate of the entire simulation. Not coming in Odyssey. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie

TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 153	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:27:00 - [524] - Quote Nicen Jehr wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them. Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once (...if of course it doesn't already) I don't think they're ever going to do a 'drone revamp' :( Nobody at CCP seems to understand how and when drones are bad.
Nicen Jehr Swarm Federation 176	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:29:00 - [525] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones Requesting an expansion that improves orbit physics and collisions ;) Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á\| My Little Things posts
Nicen Jehr Swarm Federation 176	Posted - 2013.04.08 14:34:00 - [526] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: I don't think they're ever going to do a 'drone revamp' :( A post from the Little Things thread: Haunting Widow wrote: More on the idea of a "Launch Drones Hot-key"... Have a little button built into the [drone panel] group header, click it and it lights up, this group is now linked to the Launch Drones Hot-key. ... P.S. and maybe we could put different drones into the same group?? Why is that not a thing. Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á\| My Little Things posts
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 714	Posted - 2013.04.08 16:20:00 - [527] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Nicen Jehr wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them. Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once Nah that's not the problem. The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones. Unfortunately that's a pretty big issue to fix, as it would essentially involve speeding up the tick rate of the entire simulation. Not coming in Odyssey. Like i've been saying for ages The problem with drones is not the stats, (although they tend to be a bit too easy to kill) its that they are ******* stupid and unreliable. Anyhow i don't think the Scythe is too powerful, its good but not any "better" than the 86k ehp aug or the 800 dps vexor. Nomen however is silly. That could be fixed with a beam buff though ^^ Lastly something thats not getting discussed is the Navy caracal. I would like to propose that in its current form its too bad against frigates to be a viable brawler. It needs 2 webs to break 200 dps vs ab frigs while barely getting 100 with 1 web. Either needs one more mid or preferably some drones. (Add to that that even against cruisers and up it puts out way less impressive stats than the vexor/aug/sfi) BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 546	Posted - 2013.04.08 17:01:00 - [528] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Nicen Jehr wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them. Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once Nah that's not the problem. The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones. Unfortunately that's a pretty big issue to fix, as it would essentially involve speeding up the tick rate of the entire simulation. Not coming in Odyssey. What about giving (nonsentry) drones something like optimal > orbit range, so when they overshoot, they can still hit. Also, while you are revamping all the drone ships, how about taking a look at the drone rigs? Most are completely useless and almost entirely unused.
Milton Middleson Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 263	Posted - 2013.04.08 18:13:00 - [529] - Quote Michael Harari wrote: Also, while you are revamping all the ~~drone~~ ships, how about taking a look at the ~~drone~~ rigs? Most are completely useless and almost entirely unused. Fixed that for you. --- Anyway, some of the 'fast' navy cruisers seem a little too fast. I realize there's a need to distinguish cruisers (especially faction cruisers) from battlecruisers in ways other than firepower, but too much speed creep and you're going to have to re-up the speeds on frigates and destroyers again for them to be viable.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 546	Posted - 2013.04.08 18:17:00 - [530] - Quote Milton Middleson wrote: Michael Harari wrote: Also, while you are revamping all the ~~drone~~ ships, how about taking a look at the ~~drone~~ rigs? Most are completely useless and almost entirely unused. Fixed that for you.. Fair enough I guess. For fozzie: Here is a list of rigs that i think there would be a very wide consensus on them being near useless: Dynamic Fuel Valve Engine Thermal Shielding Warp Core Optimizer All the drone rigs, except maybe sentry damage, drone mining augmentor, drone speed augmentor Emission Scope Sharpener Liquid Cooled Electronics Mementic Algorithm Bank Signal Focusing Kit Targeting Systems Stabilizer Powergrid Subroutine Maximizer Core Defense Charge Economizer

Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly 680	Posted - 2013.04.08 18:40:00 - [531] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Stabber fleet issue is gonna stay the same So what's the problem with leaving the SFI at the same mass and not increasing it?... You havent really commented on how people use it for heavy tackle in fleets...
Ashina Sito Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2013.04.08 18:59:00 - [532] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone, thanks for all the feedback so far. We're working hard to get these onto the test server for you all to try out. It's not quite ready to go yet but we'll be providing more updates as we get closer. The big concerns I'm seeing so far surround the Scythe, Omen and Stabber, so I want to discuss them briefly. How about the Navy Vexor, or any of the rest? Would it not be better to break the thread into one for each ship? That way each can get more focus attention and discussion.
Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 546	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:00:00 - [533] - Quote Ashina Sito wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone, thanks for all the feedback so far. We're working hard to get these onto the test server for you all to try out. It's not quite ready to go yet but we'll be providing more updates as we get closer. The big concerns I'm seeing so far surround the Scythe, Omen and Stabber, so I want to discuss them briefly. How about the Navy Vexor, or any of the rest? Would it not be better to break the thread into one for each ship? That way each can get more focus attention and discussion. And then the entire first page could be stickied threads...
Boiglio Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:33:00 - [534] - Quote How about the Navy Vexor, or any of the rest? Would it not be better to break the thread into one for each ship? That way each can get more focus attention and discussion.[/quote] And then the entire first page could be stickied threads...[/quote] Form follows function. If the people who are working on and seeking input are looking for discussion to coalesce around discussing the possibilities/issues with specific ships, then each ship should have a thread to allow that to happen. If they are looking for general feedback about the "theme" or the theory behind how this ship redesign pass came to be and what it hopes to accomplish, then one general thread is the way to go. You're welcome. ~Boiglio
Shadragk Spellbound Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:14:00 - [535] - Quote Isn't it possible to add another version of each navy ship to the game instead of changing all of them?
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance 24eme Legion Etrangere 101	Posted - 2013.04.09 00:11:00 - [536] - Quote Shadragk Spellbound wrote: Isn't it possible to add another version of each navy ship to the game instead of changing all of them? Don't nerf the navy omen. seruiosly when the navy arbitrator coming?
Sinzor Aumer Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective 123	Posted - 2013.04.09 05:38:00 - [537] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Nah that's not the problem. The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones. Unfortunately that's a pretty big issue to fix, as it would essentially involve speeding up the tick rate of the entire simulation. Not coming in Odyssey. Dont know the details, but maybe using more advanced drone AI would help? PID-controlled speed, anyone? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
Lina Theist War Veteran Pension 1	Posted - 2013.04.09 15:14:00 - [538] - Quote but my 37,5% rate of fire bonus? ._. give me 50% rof and I'll be happy, who needs cap anyway?
Mr Ignitious Aperture Harmonics K162 12	Posted - 2013.04.09 16:05:00 - [539] - Quote Jitami This wrote: Is there any point in training T2 ships any more? Not as far as I can tell. Ishtar is now completely out performed by a T1 (albeit faction ship) that is cheaper as well. And that's not keeping in mind the VNI will have the extra low and extra rig slot so that "resist disadvantage" can be very easily counter-acted by simply fitting tank into those slots. Voila, you can make a superior ishtar out of a cheaper lower skill requirement ship. TT gg ishtar.
Legault Revan Hard Knocks Inc. 4	Posted - 2013.04.09 16:43:00 - [540] - Quote I liked the split weapons thing for the Scythe and Phoon before, but if it's going away on the Nag and Phoon, why let it persist? Make the Scythe a missile boat with a bit of extra drone space. On a separate note: I can't wait for the T2 changes that will make T2 viable again after these changes in this thread. My heavy assaults are sad right now.



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